Janissaries-msg - 1/11/02 Notes on the Janissaries, an elite corps in the service of the Ottoman Empire (Turkey) composed of war captives and Christian youths pressed into service. They were converted to Islam and trained under the strictest discipline. NOTE: See also the files: mercenaries-msg, Turkey-msg, fd-Turkey-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 10:34:47 +0200 From: Volker Bach To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Jannissary Cooks "Craig Jones." schrieb: > ""The "folded sleeve" Janissary hat has a special brass holder in the > ""front for an elaborate plume or for a wooden spoon. Among the most > ""respected members of a particular group of Janissaries were the two > ""men who carried the HUGE bronze/copper cooking pot. They had a > ""specific outfit so they were readily identified. > > Wasn't there a rank of Janissary officer called a Corbasi (Soup > maker)? Can anyone confirm this? The table of organisation of the Janissary Corps I work off (Hans Miksch, I don't really know how good he is) gives the following officer ranks: Aga - tactical commander of the Orta (roughly batallion equivalent) Djorbajibashi (head soup cook) - administrative officer in charge of the Orta Kethuda and Obadashi - tactical officers subordinate to the Aga Adjibashi (head cook), Sakkabashi (head water bearer) and Wekelikhardj (food fund manager) - administrative officers subordinate to the Djorbajibashi I distinctly recall seeing large spoons being worn/carried by janissary officers as a badge of rank, and the subordinate tactical units were designated as 'messes' sharing a cookpot in the field, whence its symbolic significance. I wonder if anyone would agree to creating a Janissary household? (Sensing military career opprtunities) Giano Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 16:01:36 +0200 From: Volker Bach To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Jannissary Cooks Susan Laing schrieb: > Giano scribed.... > >Aga - tactical commander of the Orta (roughlybatallion equivalent) > >Djorbajibashi (head soup cook) - administrative officer in charge of the > >Orta > >Kethuda and Obadashi - tactical officers subordinate to the Aga > >Adjibashi (head cook), Sakkabashi (head water bearer) Wekelikhardj (food > >fund manager) > > Oooohhhh - period cooking garb!!! > > Giles/Drakie/Mel - wanna find some pictures/ clothes discriptions and see if > they're specy enough for the Lochac Event Catering Corp??? ;-) There is an Osprey Elite Series book (by David Nicolle IIRC) called The Janissaries that's full of pictures and has a set of modern reconstruction color plates in the middle. I don't know how good the text is (if I'm right about David Nicolle that should be no worry, but some of the Osprey stuff is definitely below par), but the pictures should be worth getting it. The price should come out around $20 if you can't get your library to get it for you. Giano From: lilinah at earthlink.net Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 12:51:36 -0700 To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Jannissary Cooks Elaine Koogler wrote: >Not sure, but I do know that Ted Moennich (SCA name is Karl von Nordmark), >who heads up a music group called Turku. They played at Pennsic last >year. He had a troup of Jannissaries that he paraded around on occasion. >I'm not sure how to get in touch with him...I think he still lives in North >Carolina, but they may have a web page. > >Kiri Uh, i've seen photos of them in their garb. Really, really not correct for Jannissaries from pre-1601 (or for any period). The group at Pennsic were all wearing red - which 16th c. Jannissaries did not - and they were wearing modern vests, salwar of the wrong shape, exposed white shirts (the gomlek is "underwear" and only the neckline, cuffs, and hem might show), and few entaris (!!!). And they were not wearing the right kinds of headgear. A group of Jannissaries is a fun idea and there's plenty of information on how to do it before 1601. Use real source material, such as surviving garments, Ottoman Turkish paintings, and European "eyewitness" drawings and paintings, which often give better details and proportions. As far as i can tell, Jannissaries didn't have a single uniform color (pun intended), but wore 2 layers of fully lined entaris (button-front tunics) in a variety of bright colors over a white gomlek (undertunic) and brightly colored salwar (pants) which do NOT have wide legs with gathered ankles, but have loose thighs but narrow ankles. The headdresses and certain costume details seem to point to rank - and the Ottomans were pretty "anal" about status. Historically accurate garments are easy to make. But the headgear is a bit trickier, but not impossible. The Osprey book is a good starting point - actually, there are 2 Osprey books on Jannissaries before 1601, one in the "Men at Arms" series and one in the "Warrior" series - but the modern artist who made the color plates (?Christa Hook?) did a terrible job, especially with the earlier depictions. Examine the actual art in the book (including photos of actual cooking pots!) and find a book with color plates of actual Ottoman art. The Osprey books have bibliographies, which should help. Right now, i'm reading a facsimile of the 1585 English translation of Nicholas de Nicholay's "The Nauigations into Turkie" which has plates possibly drawn by an artist who accompanied him, including a couple Jannissaries. Anahita Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 15:16:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Huette von Ahrens Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Jannissary Cooks To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Here are several books on Janissaries. Huette +++++++++ Nicolle, David. The Janissaries / text by David Nicolle, colour plates by Christa Hook. -- London : Osprey, 1995. 64 p. : ill. (some col.), maps ; 25 cm. -- (Elite series ; 58) ISBN 1855324970 Nicolle, David. The Janissaries / text by David Nicolle, colour plates by Christa Hook. -- London : Reed International Books, 1997. 64 p. : ill. (some col.), maps ; 25 cm. -- (Elite series ; 58) ISBN 185532413X Goodwin, Godfrey. The Janissaries / Godfrey Goodwin. -- London : Saqi, 1997. 288 p. : ill. ; 24 cm. ISBN 0863560490 (hb). -- ISBN 0863560555 (pbk) Palmer, J. A. B. The origin of the Janissaries / by J.A.B. Palmer. -- Manchester : The Librarian, The John Rylands Library ..., 1953. Evliy=E8a, efendi, ca.1611-ca.1682. In the days of the Janissaries; old Turkish life as depicted in the "Travel-book" of Evliy=E2a Chelebi, by Alexander Pallis. Introd. by Philip Graves. London,New York, Hutchinson, 1951. 236p. 36 plates (incl. ports.) map (on lining papers) 23cm. Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 13:16:05 +0200 From: Volker Bach To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Jannissary Cooks Huette von Ahrens schrieb: > Nicolle, David. > The Janissaries / text by David Nicolle, colour > plates by Christa Hook. -- London : Osprey, 1995. > 64 p. : ill. (some col.), maps ; 25 cm. -- (Elite > series ; 58) > ISBN 1855324970 > > Nicolle, David. > The Janissaries / text by David Nicolle, colour > plates by Christa Hook. -- London : Reed International > Books, 1997. > 64 p. : ill. (some col.), maps ; 25 cm. -- (Elite > series ; 58) > ISBN 185532413X Thanks, that's very useful (my wallet *doesn't* say thanks, but it's going lean these days anyway...). BTW, in case anyone doesn't know these two are substantially the same book with different covers. Osprey publishes 'trade editions' of its more popular titles through Reed International. Giano Edited by Mark S. Harris Jannissaries-msg 5 of 5