Italy-msg - 1/30/08 Italian culture, families. Medieval Points of Interest. NOTE: See also the files: Italy-lnks, popes-msg, fd-Italy-msg, SwissGuard-msg, cl-Italy-msg, fd-Italy-msg, pasta-msg, fd-Sicily-msg, Sicily-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: kreed at gravity.science.gmu.edu (Ken Reed) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Suggestions for books dealing with Ren. Italy. Date: 22 Mar 1996 16:11:01 GMT Organization: George Mason University When you are ready to read somewhat more scholarly works, I would suggest these: Klapisch-Zuber, Christiane. _Women, Family and Ritual in Renaissance Italy._ Herlihy, David and Christiane Klapisch-Zuber. _Tuscans and Their Families._ Kent, F.W. _Household and Lineage in Renaissance Florence._ Davis, James. _A Venetian Family and Its Fortune, 1500-1900._ Pitkin, Donald. _The House that Giacomo Built._ Italian kinship and family structures are different from those of Northern Europe and are the foundation for many of the other social interactions you have mentioned. Baroness Teleri Talgellawg [Susan Reed (the OTHER Reed)] From: Lenny Zimmermann <zarlor at acm.org> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Italian history books Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 11:24:16 -0700 > Hello! Could anyone tell me some good sources for Italian history, > approximately from 1100 to 1600? Do any of the books cover that long > an historical period? I am interested in the town of Milan, but also > how the other city-states were influencing it. This is certainly a tall order! I can tell you that Milan itself is a difficult Italian city to choose for historical research. There are simply nowhere near the number of sources available on Milan as there is for Florence, Venice or Rome. Mainly due to a sacked and destroyed library in the late 1300s (or was it early 1400s?). At any rate, Florence is close enough and was a large enough of a rival to at least provide a good deal of general cultural information for Northwestern Italy. (Only partially since Florence was a Republic in the Rennaisance, where most other city-states were not). I would suggest "Rennaisance Diplomacy" as a good book for some good general information on the times. Benvenuto Cellini's (1500-1571) Autobiography is exceptionally interesting for study of the life of a sculptor/soldier during the High Rennasiance since it carries his life story through to 1562. Just remember that Cellini was most certainly a braggart and a bully, but it is still a most interesting piece. "The Book of the Courtier" by Baldasare Castiglione was published in the late 1520s and was the definitive book of proper behaviour for a Courtier for the next 300 years. If you want Italian court life from 1450 on, I would HIGHLY reccomend his work. There is also a new book out that I have heard excellent reviews on about the lives of the ruling family in Mantua but I cannot for the life of me remember the name. As you can tell, however, most of my suggestions follow the Italian High Rennaisance where my own interests lie. My best suggestion is to hit the Library and check out their history section and don't forget to check out their historical literature as well. Plutarch's Lives, Dante's Inferno and The Decamaron were all highly influential works on Italian culture and most Italians were at least familiar with them. Machiavelli can provide some good insight as well, as long as you remember his frame of mind when he wrote things like "The Prince". I found a very interesting book called "The Joys of Italian Humor" which had a few chapters on humor from the time period you are looking at. It is a fascinating culture and luckily the Italians were fairly prolific writers (when their libraries weren't burned down by other Italians). Personally I wallow in the joy of going to the library and finding something new on Italian culture. Now if only I could learn the Italian language better.... Leonardo Acquistapace (MKA Lenny Zimmermann) zarlro at acm.org From: mrcseverne at aol.com (MrCSeverne) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Italian history books Date: 6 Jun 1996 14:49:30 -0400 In addition to the books Leonardo mentioned (and the book on the Gonzaga of Mantua is called "A Renaissance Tapestry", written by Kate Simon, if I be not mistaken,) I would recommend Edward Burman's "Italian Dynasties" and a biography simply called "The Borgias" (and here it is I who am stuck for a name... I can't recall who wrote it.) Both are fairly late, and I confess that I share Leonardo's bias for things Renaissance. Another source which I have found excellent is Jacqueline Herald's "Dress in Renaissance Italy :1450-1500" Although this is a book about clothes, it tells a great deal about the people and the culture, going so far as to discuss moral standards in dress and the financial burdens of fashion. Also, Elisabeth Birbari's book "Dress in Italian Painting", one of the best books I have read about how to decipher the truth of a garment out of a picture. Also makes some comments on life as pertinent to clothing, and shows some of the unlikeliest shots you will ever see of painting details... laundry hanging out to dry, the inside of the cloak of a man struck dead, the hook-and-eye on a child's doublet, the dart (yes, really!) on a woman's bodice. I am sorry that my suggestions seem to have turned to costume, but then... what good is life without fashion? I remain yours in service......................................Colin From: nachtanz at patriot.net (Susan and Ken Reed) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Italian history books Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 11:14:52 -0400 mrcseverne at aol.com (MrCSeverne) wrote: > Also, Elisabeth Birbari's book "Dress in Italian Painting", one of the > best books I have read about how to decipher the truth of a garment out of > a picture. Also makes some comments on life as pertinent to clothing, and > shows some of the unlikeliest shots you will ever see of painting > details... laundry hanging out to dry, the inside of the cloak of a man > struck dead, the hook-and-eye on a child's doublet, the dart (yes, > really!) on a woman's bodice. > I am sorry that my suggestions seem to have turned to costume, but > then... what good is life without fashion? I remain yours in > service......................................Colin Along this line, another excellent book is _Painting and Experience in Fifteenth-Century Italy_ by Michael Baxandall, 2d edition (Oxford, UK: Oxford University Press, 1988) which shows how patrons of the arts were educated and how this, in turn, influenced the development of art and of how art was perceived. It also discusses pictorial depiction of costume in this light as well. One caution on Elisabeth Birbari, though. She bought into the concept that the Italians showed everything exactly as it appeared in "real life" lock, stock, and barrel. I also have a background in art history both at the undergrad and grad levels, and from what I have studied, the Italians were into "idealized beauty" rather than painting "what they saw" (read some of the artist's own discussions of "art" being more important than "nature"). They did not paint every little detail "accurately" (where are the piecing seams on the narrow silks?) and everything they painted did not necessarily exist. Jacqueline Herald in _Dress in Renaissance Italy, 1400-1500_ has good discussion on what I call "iconographic" clothing, clothing that serves as a symbol rather than being garments worn in "real" life (Margaret Scott in _Late Gothic Europe_ of the same series has an even better one). Otherwise, Birbari's book is a very good source for interpretation. -- Susan and Ken Reed AFPOPA nachtanz at patriot.net From: jeffs at bu.edu (Jeff Suzuki) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Italian history books Date: 13 Jun 1996 01:17:48 GMT Organization: Boston University : > Hello! Could anyone tell me some good sources for Italian history, : > approximately from 1100 to 1600? Do any of the books cover that long : > an historical period? I am interested in the town of Milan, but also : > how the other city-states were influencing it. I haven't read it, but there is Machiavelli's _History of Florence_, which will tell you what the Florentines thought about history...Also, didn't Dante write a history of Florence? From the look of things, it looks like Florence was the only city in Italy during the Renaissance...so I'll start with a few not about Florence: _A Renaissance Tapestry_, by Kate Simon. Tells about the Gonzaga of Mantua; a great story about a house that didn't quite make it. The story of how Vincenzo had to prove his manhood is, by itself, worth the price of the book. _Before the Industrial Revolution_, by Carlo Cipolla. This is economic history; a bit dry, but if you want to know how the European economy worked in the time period between 1100 and 1700, utterly fascinating. _History of the Italian Republics in the Middle Ages_, by J. C. L. Sismondi. Haven't read it, don't know if you can find it anywhere (I got mine at a library sale for 25c), but the table of contents is intriguing: entries include chapters on all the major city-states, including the lesser ones like Pisa and Siena. (A quick check through my Britannica gives me the impression that the English version is a condensation of his sixteen volume --- ! --- work of the same name. Sismondi was one of the early economic historians, ca. 1800, FWIW.) Now for the Florence section... _Renaissance Florence_, by Gene Brucker. The title tells you what you need to know. _Florence and the Medici_, by H. R. Hale. I haven't read this yet, but it looks interesting. _The Medici_, by Ferdinand Shevil. A good introduction to the family. Jeffs From: gunnora at bga.com (Gunnora Hallakarva) To: ansteorra at eden.com Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:36:21 -0600 Subject: More Info from the Historical Costuming List Good gentles, once again I am forwarding information to you which first appeared on the Historical Costuming List. Gunnora Hallakarva is *not* the author, but thought that Ansteorrans and other readers of this list might find this infomation useful: ===================================================== Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 13:05:42 -0500 From: Mary Smith <MDSDMB at AOL.COM> Subject: Italian Ren The following notes are courtesy of Maestra Francesca di Pavia, from the Shire of Caer Galen, the Outlands. I will forward any comments to her. "As near as I can tell, there were two basic styles of overdress commonly worn in Italy in the second half of the 15th Century. One was called a cioppa or pellanda (regional variations), and was related to a houppelande. It was very long and full in the skirt. The bodice could be pleated to the skirt, or could be all one piece with a complex system of pleats starting above the breastline (possibly tied in place on the inside). The bodice was usually round-necked and somewhat high, but could be cut lower. The skirt was open in the front to reveal the skirt of the dress beneath. (BTW, I can see no evidence that the basic Italian dress, the gamurra, camora, or cotta - again mainly regional variations - ever had a split skirt and underskirt, as I so often see done in the SCA. That's a misinterpretation of a gown and an overgown, as I see it.) The sleeves were generally hanging sleeves, and were often ridiculously long and full, and sometimes dagged. The second style of overgown was the giornea. This was a tabard-like affair, which was left open on the sides to reveal the gown beneath, and was usually cut in a low V-neck so the bodice beneath could show. This could be sleeveless or have long, hanging (sometimes dagged) sleeves. In either case the sleeves of the dress beneath would be seen (and these were often elaborately beaded and embroidered). (Incidentally, a woman of status would rarely go out in public without an overdress, except in the summer, and then her gamurra would be of silk and as heavily embellished as she could muster. Only a lower-class woman would go about in aplain wool gamurra without a cioppa or giornea.) "Judging from the many paintings I've seen, there were wide variations in these basic styles. This was an age of great display of individualism in costuming, and as much conspicuous consumption as thewearer could afford - the penalty for violating sumptuary laws was a fine. The nouveau riche happily paid the fine in order to look more like the nobility." Francesca di Pavia/Meg Baron ====================================================== Gunnora Hallakarva Herskerinde From: 104310.1415 at CompuServe.com Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: travel suggestions-Italy Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:53:23 -0800 I spent this past summer in Italy, living in Siena (taking a language course at the University there) and travelling every weekend...all of this was on a college studnt's budget, as well. Being partial, I definitely recommend Siena. The Contrada museums are the people's history collection...the period garb used for the Palio is authentic as it can get, and it's all there for us to see. Also, the entire town within the walls is medieval. It has the ambience.(I was a soaking sponge for two months!) An Italian rail pass was a deal but also a pain as I couldn't use it on the faster trains without paying a supplement. (It worked out to be a deal, however.) Youth hostels are great and the most inexpensive. I also used Lonely Planet's guide to Italy, which was very good at listing cheap hotels in safe areas. A warning about the book (my only gripe) is that the times for the museums and sites are wrong. This cost me my one chance to see inside St. Mark's (Venice) (Go there!!!!!) because I happilly arrived an hour late following my book's incorrect time. Oh well. The Ducal Museum in Venice has a great armory exhibit and fascinating prisons with prisonor's graffitti from 1500 (for example). If you have other questions for me, Ailith, you can eMail me (muirne at earthlink.net) BUON VIAGGIO! CIAO, Murne n Chatain From: mittle at panix.com (Arval d'Espas Nord) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: developing Italian persona - need lotsa help Date: 28 Jan 1997 11:02:43 -0500 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC In article <5cf1vk$fe at Holly.aa.net>, cire at mail.nwinfo.net (eric) writes: > I am new to the SCA and have decided on Italian for my family's > person. Need lotsa help with everything: > Names - Clothes - Tents - etc You can find information on Italian names at http://www.panix.com/~mittle/names. =========================================================================== Arval d'Espas Nord mittle at panix.com From: lsteele at mtholyoke.edu (Lisa Steele) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: developing Italian persona - need lotsa help Date: 29 Jan 1997 02:41:42 GMT Organization: Mount Holyoke College eric (cire at mail.nwinfo.net) wrote: > I am new to the SCA and have decided on Italian for my family's > person. Need lotsa help with everything: > Names - Clothes - Tents - etc > Please help. Italian is not the easiest place to start. There is a wealth, indeed a confusing morass of historical material available. On the other hand, the politics and history are hideously complex and there are not many general overviews available. Pick a region and likely a city -- Florence, Venice, Milan, Rome, all the major cities have fairly accessible materials. Then pick a time period -- at least a century and perhaps a fraction thereof (1st half, 2nd third, whatever). Then I can likely give you some places to start looking for more information. --Esclarmonde From: donato at stlnet.com To: ansteorra at eden.com Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 20:12:33 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: Italian Names?]] > I am trying to create a SCA persona from the Italian race. To date I >have been unable to find ANY names or backgrounds. ANY help will be >greatly appreciated. Thanks for any help you can give me. > > Denise Williams Machavelli's "Florentine Histories" and "The Prince," and Castligone's "Book of the Courtier" should give you ample background on life in the city states and among the gentry. Also there is a book called "Italian Folktales" (sorry I can't remember the editor) which has some interesting cultural anecdotes. Donato From: "Nathan W. Jones" <njones at ix.netcom.com> To: ansteorra at eden.com Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 20:41:01 -0800 Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: Italian Names?]] Donato wrote: > Machavelli's "Florentine Histories" and "The Prince," and Castligone's "Book > of the Courtier" should give you ample background on life in the city states > and among the gentry. > > Also there is a book called "Italian Folktales" (sorry I can't remember the > editor) which has some interesting cultural anecdotes. For first names, try Shakespeare. And for a great read about Florentine life try "Two Memoirs of Renaissance Florence", (and I don't have it close to hand to tell you the editors name, I want to say Gene Brucker.) Oh, and don't forget "The Autobiography of Benvenuto Cellini", which also happens to be a really great read. Gio From: jarnott at sallie.wellesley.edu (Jennifer C. Arnott) Newsgroups: soc.history.living,rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Blacks in Renaissance Italy Date: 29 AUG 97 18:02:41 GMT Organization: Wellesley College Regarding blacks in Renaissance Italy: I took a seminar on Renaissance Florence last semester, and as part of the course work, we had to pick articles dealing with various subject areas. One of the ones I read had to do with slavery in Florence, which, if I remember correctly <and I might not, as this was last spring, and I don't have any of my notes from that segment of class handy> was in its prime between 1450ish and 1530. The slaves were principally from Turkey and Eastern Europe - but from non-Christian areas or groups <there were laws against enslaving Christians> However, many of them also came from Northern Africa. Slaves were most commonly young women <9-12 years old> who would be bought as nursemaids/ maids of all work - and yes, they would sometimes be concubines for the son of the house. <Sons, even...> It was not *incredibly* uncommon for these slaves - especially the women - to be released from slavery when their charges were grown, given a small lump sum,and left on their own. On the other hand, they were also often favourite family retainers... It was also pointed out that although the slaves *were* exposed to physical violence, it was at about the same level that the children of the family were - in other words, their master was equally brutal with both the slaves and his own blood. The article in question - and I'm sorry I don't have full information - was in Renaissance Quarterly. I want to say that the Volume number was either #30, or in that area, which puts it in the late 70s/early 80s, I think. If anyone is interested, next time I get a chance to go hunt the library stacks, I can see if I can get complete information. The title was something along the lines of "Slave ownership in <time period> Italy." Looking at the city records from Florence might get you somewhere, as well. . they're among the most complete <and most complete for a cosmopolitan area> of their kind. -Cecilia Peters MKA Jennifer Arnott jarnott at wellesley.edu Subject: Re: ANST - Sightseeing recommendations Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 13:57:11 MST From: Joe Wolf <WolfJ at bisys.com> To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG >>> Lisa Sawyer <ysabeau at interquest.de> 01/26/98 10:06AM >>> I am planning a long trip to Italy this summer and I am looking for suggestions on little known yet historically significant places to go and see. We will be homebased near Pisa and will have a car. I have been reading the guide books but there has yet to be written a guide book for SCAdians -at least not that I've heard of. So, any recommendations? Ysabeau of Prague Shire of Vielburgen, Drachenwald (Baumholder, Germany) ysabeau at interquest.de Take a boat (or puddle-jumper plane) across the Adriatic to Dubrovnik, Yugoslavia. The "Old City" is a walled, medieval fortress-city that is maintained in near original condition! Torches are placed along the walls in the evening, and vendors come out hawking flowers, drinks, and eats... young lovers sit together upon the walls overlooking the waters of the Adriatic. Major atmosphere! Many museums and galleries of medieval antiques and relics. Well worth the trip!! Lord Manfred Wolf mka Joe Wolf Barony of the StarGate Houston, TX Subject: Re: ANST - Sightseeing recommendations Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 23:21:34 MST From: "Casey&Coni" <cjw at vvm.com> To: <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG> Ooooor, if you aren't so interested in gunfire... you could go right up the street (about 30 min by car) to Firenze and step inside the Ufizzi Gallerei (if you'd like to see Botticellis Birth of Venus), La Academie (If Michaelangelos David is of interest to you), La Palazzo Medici-Ricardi (for all that nifty Medici family history), Dante Alighieri's house, as well as Cellini's Perseus right out in the town square. The architecture is exquisite- don't miss La Piazza della Signoria, La Basilica de Santa Maria del Fiore (the facade of this building is one of the most famous in the world), Giotto's Campanile (**82 meters high**), the Baptistery, and so on, and so on, and so on. Am I waxing nostalgic? Go there. You won't have to stay in a hotel or a hostel as you can just jot back to Camp Darby (where I suspect you'll be staying anyway). Oh, and hit the beach... it's lovey, dear, just lovey. Ritter Dieterich Subject: Re: ANST - Sightseeing recommendations Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 10:17:04 MST From: Askell <Askell at aol.com> To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG Ysabeau, As exciting and lovely as Dubrovnik was in earlier years, it took heavy damage during the war. It is considered safe for tourists now and they are rebuilding/restoring but still, considering that it is quite a distance from where you will be staying, why not spend your time in closer, equally exciting places. There cannot be enough wonderful things said about Firenze. Just seeing The David is reason enough for the trip. With all the photographs I had seen, I was still completely unprepared for the power of the piece. I actually shed a tear or two at its sheer beauty and power. You can find locandas/pensions for a pittance (we paid less than $15 American for a place less than a block from the Duomo in the heart of the old city--ok, it was a room on the fifth floor with the privy down the hall--but it was clean and had a GREAT location). Try 'Let's Go Europe' as a source for inexpensive accomodations, markets, and eateries. It is put out annually by the Harvard Student Union, available in book stores everywhere and dearer than gold when you travel. If you rent a car, there are several hilltop, beautifully preserved, medieval walled towns in the area. They are smaller than Dubrovnik, further off the well beaten tourist path, but well worth the trouble of the finding them and the climb (some are still only accessable by footpath and/or footbridge). Regardless, in the big cities (especially Rome!!!!!) keep you money inside your clothes, don't worry about your personal safety (all of Western Europe is much safer than Houston), and have a wonderful time! Melody macGregor of Stargate Subject: Re: ANST - Sightseeing recommendations Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 11:13:56 MST From: Joe Wolf <WolfJ at bisys.com> To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG A Couple of hours south of Firenze is Assisi... a medieval town and home of St. Francis. They have maintained the medieval castle (Rocka Majora) and allow tours through it as well. The small city has quaint shops and sidewalk cafes, and the people are some of the friendliest I encountered in Italy. Also, there was a college student who worked out of the castle, and was funded by a division of the Italian government, recreating armor and weapons excavated from the catle. He sold some of the pieces of his work (all hand forged) and I was lucky enough to obtain a wonderful double-edged dagger (which Lord Wolfgang von dem Hoffen often drools over!). I think you would enjoy an afternoon in Assisi! Lord Manfred Wolf mka Joe Wolf Barony of the StarGate Houston, TX Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 09:03:13 -0500 From: Brian Songy <bxs3829 at usl.edu> Subject: SC - Venizia - off topic >The old manager of the lodge was a WW II vet. He told me that they = used the twigs, leaves and already >squeezed fruit skins and pulp to = make his grappa. He also hinted at secret ingredients, one of which was = really >moldy fruit pulp from early in pressing season... Still knocked = my socks off! We held the event outside Venice >near Aviano Air Base. = At the base of the Alps. What a view! Miss it something else. >Balldrich Aviano!!! I was there from Jan to May 96. Great place. Where exactly did you hold the event? Pra Da Plana (a hotel at the foot of the alps)? Did you get to eat at L'Florin in Venice? It is a restaurant that dates back to the 16th century, in San Marco square in Venice. The food is okay, the prices were high, but the environment was excellent. The architecture in Venice would dazzle even the most jaded individual. My first exposure to grappa was in a little "no name" restaurant in Venice (once again, we were lost) during Carnivale (Mardi Gras). :) When we later went skiing at Piancovalo (in the Alps, north of Aviano), grappa accompanied us up the slopes. In Piancovalo they had alembics (brass, table-top stills for making grappa) for sale; I'm still kicking myself for not buying one. Much of the grappa comes from Basano di Grappa (Grappa Mountain?), a region of Italy right on the border of Croatia (formerly Yugoslavia). Plain grappa is usually clear to straw color. It is very common to find it flavored with a variety of herbal products: anise, thyme, etc. All of the occurrences of flavored grappa that I encountered, only a single herb was used in each type. Brian Songy USL/NIRC Bxs3829 at usl.edu P.S. IMHO Anyone who visits North-eastern Italy should check out Palabonova (spelling?). It is a city between Venice, Udine and Trieste. In the late middle ages (I believe) they begun to build the fortifications, and continued into the early 20th century! Lacking any significant terrain features it developed into a perfect "star fortress" ; The entire city is laid out in a geometric plan, with a series of concentric walls surrounding it. From the inner (oldest) brick wall to the outer (WW I era) gun emplacements, it is 440 meters. The scale and perfection of the geometry is impressive. Few tourists visit it, so it's a nice change from some of the other sights in NE Italy (San Marco square, the Uffize, etc.). Just my two cents. YMMV. From: "Barbara Benson" <vox8 at mindspring.com> To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Books Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:27:06 -0400 I am not certain what items interest you, but I am reading a fascinating book right now that has more information per page than most books have in their entirety. It is a difficult read (like a textbook) but if you are interested in Venice then it is wonderful. Venice: The Lion City, Garry Wills, 0-684-87190-4, Simon & Schuster (c)2001. also in the pile, but again, highly specialzed as far as subjects go: The History of Decorative Arts: The Renaissance and Mannerism in Europe, Alain Gruber, Abbeville Press 1-55859-821-9. Carpaccio, Vittorio Sgarbi, Abbeville Press 0-7892-0000-7. (in case you do not know Carpaccio one of the if not the most famous Venitian painter durning the end of the 15th and begining of the 16th century. This book has absolutely spectacular color plates with details that will make your jaw drop. I was able to find all three on Amazon, but be aware that the bottom two are quite pricy books, the cheapest I saw them online being $75 and $50 respectively. I found them locally for $45 and $25, but then I am the master shopper!!! Serena da Riva Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 02:20:17 -0400 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <rcmann4 at earthlink.net> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Online facsimiles (mostly in Spanish) To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> For the Italophiles, there's a facsimile of Scappi's Opera http://cisne.sim.ucm.es/search*spi/g?SEARCH=DIOSCORIDES Brighid ni Chiarain *** mka Robin Carroll-Mann Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 13:28:28 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Italian olive history To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Great site, I would love to visit the place: http://www.museodellolivo.com/eng/index.htm If you go to the in-depth information, you'll see stuff about the Middle Ages in Italy. Apparently olive culture plummeted and the oil was scarce and expensive. Gianotta From: jk <klessig at cox.net> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Bologna, Italy Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 01:52:21 -0700 Charlene Charette <see.sig at for.address> wrote: >I'll be in Bologna, Italy, the afternoon of July 29th. Any "must sees", >especially textile-related? > >--Charlene I was in bologna in Feb for a few days. In my opinion, go somewhere else. I wasn't all that impressed with bologna. THe museums were interesting, but not VERY interesting. The views are all crowded in by the famous arcades, so that it is difficult to actually SEE anything. I didn't get a change to go up in the tower, but photos form there look fantastic. Ferrara is an hour or so away by train, I liked it a lot more even though most every thing was closed that I was interested in. ======= OTOH if you are stuck with Bologna, I can recommend one resturaunt. Monte Grappa. IT wasn't far off of the Piazza Maggiore, I was looking at menus trying to find some where that looked good to eat, while the waiter was out getting a smoke. He proudly proclaimed that "this Is the best restaurant in Bologna!". I figured no way, and that he was just copping attitude. He might very well have been right. Just a little hole in the wall sort of place. jk From: jk <klessig at cox.net> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Bologna, Italy Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 16:02:22 -0700 Ted Eisenstein <alban at socket.net> wrote: >> OTOH if you are stuck with Bologna, I can recommend one resturaunt. >> Monte Grappa. >Mount Booze? > >Alban More like mount white lightning, but yea. I think it is also the name of a local mountain, and a street near the restaurant. jk <the end> Edited by Mark S. Harris Italy-msg