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England-msg - 4/9/05


Medieval points of interest in England.


NOTE: See also the files: London-msg, France-msg, Scotland-msg, Ireland-msg, Wales-msg.





This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.


This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org


I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.


The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.


Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).


Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                          Stefan at florilegium.org



From: Garick Chamberlin <Garick at vonkopke.demon.co.uk>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Med/Ren stores in England

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 95 22:51:56 GMT

Organization: Drachenwald


elbert at robles.callutheran.edu "Faedrah" writes:

>    I'm spending some time in England.  Can anyone out there tell me

> where, besides the store Past Times, in the areas around Cambridge,


Anyone who goes to Cambridge should stop off at Granta Antiquities and load

up on *real* artifacts. I now have a mace head, damascus steel eating knife,

2 cloak clasps, a barrel tap, and a gilded copper strap end, all of which are

authentic medieval thingies. Oh yea, I've also been buying keys to give as

presents to seneschales from time to time.  England has been very, very, good

to me.


Viscount Sir Garick von Kopke

Honor Virtus Est



From: gileshill at aol.com (Gileshill)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Bath's Museum of Costume (was 15th C. Venetian Clothes)

Date: 15 Jan 1996 02:09:55 -0500


Gealac lan wrote:

>... I took a costuming class in College that mentioned a Costuming

Museum, if I >remember correctly, in Bath, England. Would anybody have

any info on it.  I wanted >to visit while on vacation there, but it's not

in the Fodor's.



The Museum of Costume, located in the Assembly Rooms in Bath (which are

famous as the site of the dances and Assemblies supervised by John Nash

during the Regency) are the site of one of the most famous collections of

historic costumes in the United Kingdom.  The clothes are displayed on

dummies, in well lit cases, in chronological order. Although there is

much that will be of interest to the Society costumer, the earliest suits

are Restoration.  (There is, happily, a bodice of polychrome stumpwork, c

1610, and an extraordinarily well preserved blackworked linen shirt, c



The Book Shop is well stocked with a variety of evil treasures, and they

do, much to my banker's delight, accept plastic.


The Museum is open all year, but you may want to call ahead to be sure

that they will be open on the day(s) you are in Bath: 0225-61111 x425, or

write to

The Keeper of Costume

4 The Circus

Bath, Avon BA1 2EW



You will also want to make time to visit the Roman Baths, which are just

down the hill from The Circus, and Sally Lund's Bath Buns Shop, which has

been in business since the Regency, baking the most delicious sweetrolls

around.  You can descend the stairs below the shop into the basement and

subbasement, and touch the Roman foundations of the building, from the

time the city was Acquae Sulis.




(For my shilling, though, the Museum of Costume in Nottingham is much more

interesting, and far less crowded...and there's a superb collection of

blackwork that is unequaled anywhere in the UK, and that includes the




From: liversen at physiology.medsch.ucla.edu (Lori Iversen)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Bath's Museum of Costume (was 15th C. Venetian Clothes)

Date: 15 Jan 1996 19:20:07 GMT

Organization: UCLA


gileshill at aol.com (Gileshill) says:


[A bunch of useful stuff for those visiting Bath]...


...all of which I second, with this addendum:  if you are at all keen

on adding to your store of useless/ful "Jeopardy!"-style trivia, you

must track down the famous "Hanging Toilets of Bath," which are as

their name suggests:  little turrets tacked on to the upper floors of

buildings, added when indoor plumbing became all the rage but

the homeowners weren't too keen on re-piping their entire houses.


True, this has nothing to do with period costume sources in Bath, but it

*is* one of those things that make you go "What the...?"


-- Alexis,

soon to be someone else entirely.



From: Kevin of Thornbury <kevin at maxson.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: SCA suggestions for trip to UK?

Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 17:02:06 -0400

Organization: Barony of Ponte Alto, Kingdom of Atlantia


Talis87346 wrote:

> My lord and I are traveling to England, Scotland, and Dublin in the fall,

> and we were wondering if anyone who has visited there has suggestions

> about places of especial interest to Scadians.


> Our SCA interests include:  Vikings, castles, Scotch, illumination, armor,

> and music.


I'd be remiss in my persona if I didn't say:


        Visit and spend a night at Thornbury Castle!


        It's in Thornbury, England near Bristol.  It's the only Tudor

        castle that serves as a hotel.  Not cheap, but well worth it!

        If you can't afford to stay there, at least have dinner there!


        Other castles in England worth note are Warwick Castle, Windsor

        Castle, and if you can get in, Buckingham Palace.


        Hampton Court Palace and Leeds Castle are beautiful as well!


|+^+|  Kevin of Thornbury                      

|/+\|  (mka Kevin Maxson)                      

\_/   kevin at maxson.com   http://sca.maxson.com



From: nisbet at sable.ox.ac.uk (Gideon Nisbet)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: SCA suggestions for trip to UK?

Date: 15 May 1996 23:36:38 GMT

Organization: Oxford University, England


Talis87346 <talis87346 at aol.com> wrote:

>My lord and I are traveling to England, Scotland, and Dublin in the fall,

>and we were wondering if anyone who has visited there has suggestions

>about places of especial interest to Scadians.


Some of us residents have ideas on the subject too :-).


>Our SCA interests include:  Vikings,


AHA! Vikings! Yes, we can do you Vikings. _The Vikings_ is one of the biggest

UK reenactment societies; we do a bunch of shows over the Summer and Autumn.

There's a Website with up-to-date programme out there somewhere...I forget the

URL but you'll find a link from my pages at http://users.ox.ac.uk/~nisbet


See you at Stamford Bridge? :-) (I'll be one of the filthy Saxons.)


Oh, btw, we fight with steel and fall down when we die (ie we fight battles

rather than tourney), so you have a fresh perspective to look forward to.


> castles, Scotch, illumination, armor,

>and music.


Well, strong spirits are consumed wherever reenactors gather. For details on

all the best castles, try contacting English Heritage (they also host several

of our major shows over the scrapping season each year). They should be only

too happy to send you attractively photographed leaflets.


For mouthwatering displays of illuminated books, you could do a lot worse than

the public rooms of the British Library (the original one, at the British

Museum, not the ghastly new thing). As regards arms, the new Royal Arsenal

museum in Leeds is allegedly very good indeed.


>Thanks in advance!


You're very welcome. I hope you enjoy our islands!

Gideon Nisbet



From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: SCA suggestions for trip to UK?

Date: 16 May 1996 00:27:36 GMT

Organization: University of California at Berkeley


Talis87346 <talis87346 at aol.com> wrote:

>My lord and I are traveling ....


>Our SCA interests include:  Vikings,


Ah, then you have to take in Jorvik.   Go to York; go to Coppergate--

once the Street of the Coopers, now a trendy little shopping mall--

look for a sign saying _Jorvik Viking Centre_, pay some money (don't

know how much it is nowadays, but not too unreasonable) and go down an



When they were building the Coopergate mall, y'see, they found

the Viking-age Coopers' Street as it was when it burned down in

1067.  They reconstructed *half* of it.  You ride a little cart

through both halves.  Then you get into the museum.  *Then* you

get into the gift shop.  Bring money--or maybe I should say,

don't bring very much.


I could go into much more detail but I don't want to spoil it for

you.  (Dammit, I wish I were going back.)


Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                Dorothy J. Heydt

Mists/Mists/West                        UC Berkeley

Argent, a cross forme'e sable           djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu




From: eherring at mindspring.com (Evan L. Herring)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: SCA suggestions for trip to UK?

Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 23:26:17 -0400


York is a definite must see, by all accounts. You can walk nearly the entire

circuit of the 12th century city wall. Middleham Castle, home of Warwick the

Kingmaker and Richard III of Wars of the Roses fame is near York; it's ruins

are only partial, but nonetheless impressive. In the Midlands, as someone else

has suggested, Warwick is excellent, as is the good old Tower of London in the

city, If you tour the Somerset coast in the south, Corfe Castle is a good one,

and Dover Castle in Kent. Spend as much time as possible in London at the

British Museum (Lindesfarne Gospels!), and the Public Records Office, where

period manuscripts can be seen (the Domesday Book is periodically

displayed!). It would be wise to phone the British Consulate in Atlanta or LA

or New York or Chicago or the embassy in Washington, or the Heritage Trust in

the UK for a catalogue of Trust-owned or operated castles available for public

viewing. Edinburgh is a goldmine of neat stuff to see in many of your favorite

categories. And don't forget Sutton Hoo and its early period burial mounds

(Lots of neat stuff!).





From: SBOR4267 at uriacc.uri.edu (Tina Bordwell)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: SCA suggestions for trip to UK?

Date: Fri, 17 May 96 13:13:50 EDT

Organization: University of Rhode Island

I went to England and Scotland a few years ago...make sure you go to

Westminster Abbey and do brass rubbings :) they make _awesome_ wall hangings

and don't cost very much (they usually charge a few pounds for the paper and

'crayons', and then a few more for using their 'rubbing brasses' (the plates))

going to little churches all over and looking for brass rubbing plates is a

fun activety, too...my family, the Bordwells, have a small town called

Bardwell named after(before?) them. there is a stained glass window of

Sir William De Bardwell that Cromwell decided didn't need to be destroyed

because it wasn't religious in origin...:) makes me happy :) anyhow,

little churches like that have some of the coolest architecture, statues,

brass rubbing plates, etc. that you can find...Westminster is a very heavy

traffic place...but it's still very neat to go to...especially to sit and

listen to Evensong... :) the boys' choir is _awesome_ :)

let's see...there was a viking museum in...oh, lord, it must have been York...

I can't remember very well where that was...no, it wasn't York...but it was

between Edinburgh and London...(en route, that is) *sigh* I'm sorry. I can't

remember where it is...but it's very interesting :)

in Edinburgh, do the Royal Mile...I suggest starting with the castle at the

top and working your way down the hill...it's very steep :)

you _must_ go to a tea house somewhere and have tea with clotted cream. it's

divine. :) (oh, and go to a grocery store and buy yourselves some HobNobs.

they are oatmeal or 'digestive biscuits' (cookies) dipped in chocolate :)

another piece of advice when in the UK, eat food that is foreign to the UK.

the local food sucks. I'm sure you'd be able to find a pub that serves good

food _somewhere_, but I wouldn't know where that would be...(well, ok, so

Beef Wellington and Yorkshire puddings are worth getting...very good. :)

above all, talk to the locals. ask them what is worth going to see. they

are usually _very_ friendly and will give good advice. especially if you

go to a small town/village and ask a store clerk and the like :)

very nice people. :) (we went to church in Bardwell, and got invited by 2

people to have tea :)

remember to bring warm clothes. it's rather chilly there, and they don't heat

their buildings like we do. _if_ they heat the buildings, they heat only the

room they are in at the time. even though you are going in the summer (we went

at Christmas time, fools that we are ;) I would still bring warm clothes.

it gets cold at night. (yes, there _was_ a reason they wore so much fabric in

the Middle Ages...it's cause they lived in the UK and lived in buildings that

were _really_ hard to heat!)  oh, yeah. make sure you bring woolen socks...

and well-insulated shoes...at least the soles have to be insulate...standing

around for an hour on a cold stone floor tends to make your ankles and knees


have fun, and bring your ATM card...you won't be able to look at your bank

balance, but you can withdraw funds...and yes, it will come out as pounds :)

Gwyndolyn of Trollhaven (until I get myself a proper last name)

(aka, Tina Bordwell SBOR4267 at uriacc.uri.edu)


From: SBOR4267 at uriacc.uri.edu (Tina Bordwell)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: SCA suggestions for trip to UK?

Date: Fri, 17 May 96 13:50:07 EDT

Organization: University of Rhode Island


>>My lord and I are traveling ....

>>Our SCA interests include:  Vikings,

>Ah, then you have to take in Jorvik.   Go to York; go to Coppergate--

>once the Street of the Coopers, now a trendy little shopping mall--

>look for a sign saying _Jorvik Viking Centre_, pay some money (don't

ah, thank you :) I _thought_ it was in York. :) I couldn't remember, though :)

>When they were building the Coopergate mall, y'see, they found

>the Viking-age Coopers' Street as it was when it burned down in

>1067.  They reconstructed *half* of it.  You ride a little cart

I'm sure you'll want to do the 'coin making' activety...you buy an aluminum

disc and you put it into the mould and strike with a hammer...and the imprint

comes out on the coin :) very neat (and portable) souvenier :)

>Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                Dorothy J. Heydt

>Mists/Mists/West                        UC Berkeley

>Argent, a cross forme'e sable           djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu


thanks again for the location information :)

Gwyndolyn of Trollhaven (until I get a proper last name)

(aka Tina Bordwell SBOR4267 at uriacc.uri.edu)



From: sclark at chass.utoronto.ca (Susan Carroll-Clark)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: SCA suggestions for trip to UK?

Date: 18 May 1996 22:45:07 -0400

Organization: University of Toronto -- EPAS


Warwick Castle has already been mentioned (fabulous display of 15th century

life there, meticulously researched).  If you're in the area, go see the

ruins of Kenilworth Castle, too (about a mile down the road). Cheaper

by about 4 pounds, and _very_ evocative.


In London, the British Museum and Library and the Tower have been mentioned.

Go to the Victoria and Albert museum  (WOW!) for embroidery, furniture,

ceramics, and virtually any sort of decorative or functional art.  Westminster

Abbey is also a must-see--tons of royal tombs, and the Shrine of

Edward the Confessor.  Canterbury is from all accounts wonderful, too (didn't

make it there myself).


So much stuff, so little time....



Nicolaa de Bracton

sclark at chass.utoronto.ca



From: "Donna S. Mann" <saffron at citynet.net>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: SCA suggestions for trip to UK?

Date: 18 May 1996 21:29:26 GMT


I found many of the museums in London and Bath. Very interesting.

Especially the Victoria and Albert Museum in London. If you are

interested in clothing, there are some wonderful pieces on display.

They have a medieval section in many areas of interest. There is also the

British Museum. And for armor go to Tower of London and if you can before

you leave write the tower of London about the Ceremony of the Keys. This

ceremony has been done for over 800 years. Leeds castle is very nice and

can be done on a day-trip. Hatfield House is nice. Basically there are

many, many areas that could peak a SCAians interest. Maybe you might want

to narrow your request to what your interests lie.

I could go on and on and on. I have made 3 trips so far. And each time I

return I want to go back as soon as possible.



From: ddfr at best.com (David Friedman)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: SCA suggestions for trip to UK?

Date: 19 May 1996 23:06:31 GMT


A few suggestions, some of which others may have made:


1. The Museum of London. This is a smaller museum than the BM or V&A, and

devoted more to daily living and less to very fancy things. It also has

the cCheapside Hoard, which is a large and interesting collection of

jewelery, c. 1600.


2. The British Museum Anglo-Saxon jewelery. This is the world's best

collection of the world's best jewelery.


3. The various British weekly antique fairs.


4. Edinburgh has at least two museums. The big, fancy one, laid out as a

series of inside balconies, is not very interesting. But there is a

smaller one with a very good collection of medieval, Norse, and Irish



5. If you are travelling by car, get the Ordinance Survey Atlas, which is

a very detailed atlas. When driving from point A to point B, look for

castles on the way. There are a lot of not very famous castles, and it is

fun to wonder around one trying to make sense of it. Bring a geologist

along, to figure out that the reason that stretch of wall doesn't have

towers is that when it was built the stream that is currently a couple of

hundred yards away was running along it.


6. Hadrian's wall. Bring a geologist along to comment on how surprising it

is that something practically brand new is in such poor condition.


7. Hutton's non-conformity. If you don't have a geologist along you won't

be interested, so don't worry about it.




ddfr at best.com



From: jan.frelin at pub.MIL.SE (Jan Frelin)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: SCA suggestions for trip to UK?

Date: 20 May 1996 03:17:17 -0400


I write only to expand on Warwick castle. It's currently run by Madame

Tussaud's, and the entrance fee is horrendous, but the fairly new Warwick

exhibit is really cool. It's the best wax-dolls I've seen (better than

Madame Tussauds in London, certainly) dressed and fitted with the most

gorgeus stuff, all mid 15th century. Further, the area is not roped off, so

you can walk around everything and see the pieces close-up. (Yes, it's all

glued down...). This beats the Yorvik Viking Centre by a wide margin, IMHO.




Hartmann Rogge, Shire of Holmrike, Nordmark, Drachenwald

Jan Frelin, Stockholm, Sweden

jan.frelin at pub.mil.se



From: bradford at alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Bradford David Matthews)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: SCA suggestions for trip to UK?

Date: 20 May 1996 12:27:13 GMT

Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee


Susan Carroll-Clark (sclark at chass.utoronto.ca) wrote:

: Canterbury is from all accounts wonderful, too (didn't

: make it there myself).


Yes!! I LOVED Canterbury.  There's lots of nice medieval things, and

there's this one thing, it's kinda tourist-y and cheesy, but I liked it.  

It's called 'The Canterbury Tales' and it has all these scenes with wax

figures and tells five of the stories.


Also, if you're in the south, you can take a ferry to Normandy for really

cheap.  I'm studying in Caen this semester, which was the ancient capital

of Williame the Conquerer.  There's lots of medieval stuff here, and a

number of castles in the vicinity.  If the idea of coming over to France

appeals to you, email me and I can give you a more detailed list of

things to do here. (email in France=matthews at criuc.unicaen.fr)


Oh, and yes, local food does suck.


Erik of Grenloch/Erec de Grenloc

Brad Matthews

bradford at csd.uwm.edu




From: Maggie Mulvaney <mulvanem at fp.co.nz>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Suggestions for trip to the UK

Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 11:31:37 +1200

Organization: Fisher & Paykel PML


JWSCHM00 at ukcc.uky.edu wrote:


> If visiting York, I also recommend Jorvik.  Also, if you go down in the

> foundations of the York Minster, you can see neat things like the

> original Norman foundations and a Roman road they excavated when re-doing

> the foundations.


York is a must, and not necessarily for the Jorvik centre. I went last time I was over, and I was actually somewhat disappointed. We went a weekday in January, and were virtually the only people in there (I had heard much about the queues), and yet the recorded commentary was impossible to hear. I can only imagine what it would be like with a full load of people and lots of schoolkids. If you know what you're looking at, you still get lots out of it, but if you go, study up on the Jorvik excavations first!


York has another great attraction - Barley Hall. Don't miss it, whatever you do. It's a building being restored to the state it was in when rented by the Lord Mayor of York, and it's fantastic for SCA-people. Everything is recreated in minute detail - the wall hangings are handwoven and dyed with madder and weld, for example. The project is a work in progress, but the aim is to restore it as an everyday household. There's taped commentary, and volunteers staff the building as 'ghosts', appearing in costume to help you along. They also arrange feasts and such like.


Other nice places - Lindisfarne, especially during the weekdays when the folk from Newcastle are working. Evocative, to say the least. Bamborough is just down the coast. The lake district! (And I'm not just saying that! :)

One holiday we spent driving from Manchester across the pennines to the coast,up

to Lindisfarne, across and into Scotland, then down again along the Wall to Carlisle. From Carlisle we drove to Keswick across the passes, and by the time we got there it was dark. Booked into the local B&B, only to wake the next morning to a spectacular view of a 'quaint' mainstreet dwarfed by the peaks that rose virtually right behind the buildings. This is old country - traces of Britons, Romans, Anglo-Saxons, Danes and Hiberno-Norse all in one small place which throws in spectacular scenery as a bonus. Ravenglass is another spot, nicely juxtaposing Sellafield/Windscale and the well preserved ruins of a Roman bath of old Glannaventa.


And if you make it, go have a 'blob' in a Yates' winebar, even if it is summer... <g>



Muireann/Maggie (who is happily plotting the next holiday up that way...)



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: Mark Schneider <mschneider at ctlnet.com>

Subject: Re: Anyone been to Scotland?

Organization: CTLnet - Compu Tech Labs, Inc.

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 18:35:51 GMT


Chip W. wrote:

> tip at ai.chem.ohiou.edu (Tom Perigrin) wrote:


> >In article <Pine.SUN.3.93.970114234609.17181B-100000 at dwarf.nome.net>,

> >Morgoth <morgoth at nome.net> wrote:

> >>

> >> Good places to go?


> >If you love the pre-iron ages (a bit pre-SCA) and you want to reaaaaally

> >travel,


> (info about the Orkneys  snipped)

> >Stonehenge is closed, except to stand at 100 feet and go "oooh aaah" (and

> >on a few very frozen ground days mid-winter). But in the Orkneys you can

> >spend an hour, generally without other people around, sitting in the

> >burials, looking at the rocks, looking at the tooling marks,  and thinking

> >about times-gone-by.


If you want to get inside Stonehenge, you can write to the British

Arechological Trust and petition special access.  This entails paying a ~20 pound fee, telling them you study medieval history and when you want to

visit.  You will then be allowed to visit Stonehenge before it opens to

the public in the morning or after it closes in the evening.  You will be

allowed to go un-escorted inside Stonehenge.  My wife and I did this

about 4 years ago, and it gives you a total diferent perspective on

Stonehenge.  I highly recomend taking the time to investigate this.  


You actually contact English Heritage.  They administrate all the

British archeological sites.  You can contact them at their web site,

which is http://www.open.gov.uk/heritage/ehehome.htm





From: spirit2 at wizard.com (Mark Thibodeau)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: England in May

Date: Sat, 01 Mar 97 05:08:34 GMT


Greetings unto Armand Rafael!


For ideas and events, you may wish to peruse two interesting United Kingdom

sites on the Internet:

        The Oxford Arthurian Society

                (do a web search to get their web address)

        Champions of the Black Bear (a 15th century historical reenactment

group which concentrates activities around the events of 1471 and the Battle

of Tewkesbury) Web address: http://www.compulink.co.uk/~novar//renact.html


Be sure to bring some warm clothing!  England can be chilly in May!


Enjoy your trip!


Lady Juliana of Aschurst



From: dan <dan at stedmunds.co.uk>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: South Folk of the East Angles

Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:05:13 +0000

Organization: St.Edmunds Internet


Moyses Hall Museum has a part of its collection, medieval weaponry

(including a sword from the Battle of Fornham, 1173), a 13th century

Monk's chronicals, jewellery and many other exhibits from the this



For more information on Moyse's Hall (thought to be a tavern in the

medieval period) and the collection it houses :




I hope you enjoy your visit.


                        Dan  at  StEdmunds Internet


    [ Bury St Edmunds and Beyond ]  -  [ http://www.stedmunds.co.uk ]



Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:03:52 -0500 (CDT)

From: nweders at mail.utexas.edu (ND Wederstrandt)

Subject: Re: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #258


        You need to stay at little youth hostels in Somerset.  The meals

are simple and sometimes boring but we had fish and chips (homemade) served

with vegetables very young and fresh from Jim the Warden's garden.  The

second meal we had was Shepard's Pie with again fresh vegies served with

(the first time I ever ate them) tiny spears of young parsnips with butter.

Served with Devon ice cream which was bright yellow from cream.... Really

delicious.  This was is Glastonbury.  When we got to Minehead near Dunster,

we were treated to homemade bread and potage bonne femme on a nasty misty

evening, fish and fresh peas and homemade fruit crumble. We also cooked

our own meals.  The only nasty thing I ate in England was the hot pink

bangers in London and Kentucky Fried Chicken (Sunday and nowhere else was

open).  Blechhhh! The meals tend to be simple at hostels but as in some

cases by people who love to cook.  We also had great take away in London

from two old Greek guys.  Maybe the moral is go to places in the south of

England.  except I always wanted to go to Whitby.


Clare St. John



From: "Melissa Rogers" <Scott-n-Missy at worldnet.att.net>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: England favourites

Date: 13 Apr 1998 01:08:10 GMT


Heather Senkler <wl835 at victoria.tc.ca> wrote:

>       Myself and two SCA friends are going to arrive in Heathrow early

> August and will leave just before Labour Day. So,.... what do YOU suggest

> we do? Please Reply to my email wl835 at victoria.tc.ca with your thoughts.


Visit every cathedral you can manage.  Ask the Rector if you can make any

brass rubbings.  Plan to bring some paper and crayons, and take your time.

You will have a treasure for ever!  (I wish I did ...) Also, if you're as

bad with a camera as I am, just buy a great postcard from every fine

building you go to and write a special remembrance on the back, don't mail

it -- these are for _you_!


Lady Eilidh nin Choinnich, Meridies.



From: "Maire Aislinge" <mblack2 at primenet.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: England favourites

Date: 12 Apr 1998 20:30:03 -0700


At every National Trust site (and there are hundreds) you will find, if not

a gift shop, a little booth selling brochures for that site.  They're cheap

and they're invaluable.  Also, Westminster Abbey's bookshop and the British

Museum giftshop sell hundreds of guide books and brochures, all reasonably

priced.  I'd rather spend my time and my money on picking up these than on

a camera and film.


Marie Aislinge



From: "Maire Aislinge" <mblack2 at primenet.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: England favourites

Date: 20 Apr 1998 14:15:01 -0700


Take the time to go to Bath.  The Roman remains are great, there are lots

of neat little places to eat, the Cathedral is charming, and the Costume

Museum and its gift shop full of great books a must. And the best part--the

train station is only about a block from the center of town.


Same with Maidstone (about an hour by train from London). Lots of wonderful

things to see.  And after you've seen Stonehenge (you are going to see

Stonehenge, aren't you) be sure to spend some time in Salisbury.

Beautiful, beautiful town.


Maire Aislinge



From: bomlin at aol.com (Bomlin)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: England favourites

Date: 22 Apr 1998 14:02:11 GMT


>Well if you are going to be in London Here are some Sugestions:


I'll add to this list.


First thing, get a street map of London.  I'm not talking about the 1 pound

guides in the tube.  The most common book is the AtoZ street guide.(rember, if

asking for it, say A to Zed since the pronounce the Z's slightly different)


Take an extra passport sized photo.  Go to a larger tube stop and purchase a

zone 1-2 one week pass.  This allows you to travel on the tube and buses for

one week(in zones 1 and 2), any time of the day.  The photo is for the id card,

a nice momento of your trip.  You will be given the id card and the pass.  Ask

for a holder for them that allows both to be shown at the same time.


Always look for combo tickets, this can save money.


To save money from Heathrow, take the tube or a bus into the city.  I recommend

the bus to Victoria Station, you don't have to fight with your luggage on the

tude.  Once you get into the city, take a taxi to your hotel.  A lot of hotels

also offer a shuttle service.  A taxi trip from Heathrow to the center of

London can be upwards of 70 pounds.


For Westminster Abbey and the British Musuem, make sure to get there early.

The tours will fill these up quickly.



Aside from the "major" stops, I might suggest...


The Globe theater:  The reconstruction of the Globe is complete and my wife and

I saw Henry V there 2 weeks after the theater opened.  The theater alone is

worth the price of admission.  If you want to sit in actual seats, call your

local ticket master and see if they can give you the number of the ticket

master in England.  I believe that the standing room only tickets are availible

the day of performance.  Remember when talking to ticket master or a taxi

driver to refer to the theater as "Shakespere's Globe."  There is another Globe

theater in town.  Also, this is not near a tube stop so go to Big Ben or

Trafalger square and get a taxi.  Will run 5-8 pounds.


Shakespere in the Park.  The RSC presents plays all summer long in Regent's

Park(near Madam Tassauds and Baker Street Station).  Once again, call ticket

master for tickets.  They usually do 2 or 3 plays a summer, so ask for a

schedule.  These performances are in the evening and are perfect combined with

a picnic dinner and a boat trip around the lake near the zoo beforehand.  If

you are interested, take peanuts for the squirrels while visiting the Rose

Gardens.  Don't bother with the zoo, London's zoo, IMHO, does not compare with

the better ones in the states.


Covent Garden Market.  On Mondays, this market is a perfect place to  purchase

medieval artifacts.  Buckles and coins can be had for 5 to 75 pounds.  Deeds

and other documents  for 125 pounds and up.


Portobello Market, near Lancaster Gate if memory serves. On Saturdays, this

street becomes an excellant place to look for more medieval artifacts.  I

picked up a purse frame, a spear head, an arrow head, and a lock and key here.


If you decide that you want to take in a show that night, the ticket booths in

Leceister square are a shopping point.  There is a large one in the square and

one by the tube stop and numerous smaller ones around. August is busy so don't

be hopeful for Phantom or Les Mis.


Chinatown.  Just north of Leceister square.  Walk from Picadilly Circus to

Leceister Square and watch for the signs.  If you like Chinese, the food in

Chinatown is very good.  Also, the restaraunts tend to be open a bit later.

Remember, menus are posted on the outside so walk around and see what you like.

This is home to the restaurant, Le Ho Foks(sp?) from the song Werewolves of

London.  For the record, they do not serve Chow Mein... ;-)


If you are interested in books, I might suggest a short side trip from the

British Museum.  The largest Dillions bookstore is about 5 minutes walk north

of the British Museum.  Great place to pick up books.


Greenwich.  Take the Docklands Light Railway(at the Tower Hill tube stop) to

the last stop across the river from Greenwich.  Walk through the tunnel under

the river.  Things to see here include the Cutty Sark, the National Maritime

Museum, and the Greenwich Observatory, home of the Greenwich Meridian.


Combo tickets are availible for the Tower and Hampton Court Palace.  I highly

recommend taking the train from Waterloo to Hampton Court, buy a combo ticket

at Hampton.  See the Tudor kitchens and then take a ferry back down the

Thames(2 - 3 hours) and then go to the Tower.


HMS Belfast, if intersted in WWII era, there is a battleship moored across from

the Tower.  Perfect excuse to walk across Tower Bridge.


When going outside of London, visit the local TIC(Tourist information center)

usually near the rail station.  You can get free local maps and check out the

list of local activities.


Warwick Castle.  One of my favorite castles.  If you call a few months ahead of

time, you can book a dinner in the castle.


Bath.  Aside from the abbey and the Roman Baths, don't forget the costume

museum.  There are also shops along the way with more opportunities to pick up

medieval artifacts.


York.  I cannot recommend this stop enough.  Between the cathedral, the city

walls, the Yorvik Viking center, and the existing Medieval buildings, this is a

great city to visit.  This is one of the few larger medieval cities that did

not suffer a major fire.


Leeds.  If you are interested in armor, make a trip to the Royal Armouries in

Leeds.  In addition to the museum, there is a very nice daily show of falconry,

jousting, a restoration shop with glass walls to allow viewing, and a shop of

the most authetic period shoes that you could want.


Portsmouth.  Home to the Mary Rose(Tudor era warship) and the HMS

Victory(battle of Trafalgar).  If you are interested in period maritime at all,

this is a must see.


Stratford upon Avon.  I wasn't originally going to go to Stratford, but on my

last weekend in England, I went.  I'm very glad that I did. I would suggest

making a day of this.  Take your time and see all the buildings.  I walked from

the city to Ann Hathaway's cottage(about a 2-3 mile walk if I remember).  There

are buses availible but the cottage is worth a visit. Make sure that you get a

nice tourist map so that you don't miss any of the buildings.


If you are going to be seeing a lot of castles, you might want to buy a

membership in both The English Heritage and The National Trusts at your first

stops.  This will save money in the long run.


Well, between London and outside the city, this would fill 2 weeks.  If you

need any more suggestions let me know.


Lord Thomas Wright of Lancaster.



From: bomlin at aol.com (Bomlin)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Medieval Ships

Date: 07 Jun 1998 21:15:04 GMT


> As for the Mary Rose, the ship/museum has its own webpage:

> Looks like a cool place to go to, if I ever make another trip

> over the Pond.


I had the lucky experience of working in London for about a year and a half and

I visited the Naval Museum in Portsmouth twice.  The Mary Rose musuem is very

well done.  The HMS Victory(Nelson's ship) is also on display within 100 feet

of the Mary Rose.  The Mary Rose is currently in a temporary facility which is

being used to treat the lumber so that it will not decay any furthur.  The

Victory is on display outside in a drydock.


For planning purposes, Portsmouth is about 2 hours by train from Waterloo



Thomas Wright.



Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 09:20:06 -0500

From: maddie teller-kook <meadhbh at io.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Views on British Food


Christine A Seelye-King wrote:

> We are planning a trip to England (Scotland,

> Ireland and Wales) at the end of September, and I would be interested in

> your views here.


> Mistress Christianna MacGrain, OP, Meridies


I found that pub food was of pretty good quaility when I was in England (oh so

many, many years ago).  And, I had good fish and chips at the little stands in






Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 10:18:56 -0500

From: Shari Burnham <pndarvis at execpc.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Views on British Food


My spouse is British so we are there at least once a year. Pub food quality has

increased, I usually do Ploughman's lunches cause I'm vegetarian.  I recommend

for native cuisine, find a pie and mash shop.  Just can't pass up those jellied eels! (I can)  For just really good food around London, I recommend curry shops, esp in SoHo area.  In Wales, down in Mumbles area (along southern coast) is one of my favorite tea shops in the whole world.  And Oystermoth castle, that you can tour (ruins/excavation).  One of my favorite areas hands down is Clevedon and south along the western coast, in Devonshire/Cornwall.  Can't beat the pasties!



Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 13:36:07 -0500

From: Shari Burnham <pndarvis at execpc.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Views on British Food


Cathy Harding wrote:

> But what ever you do, avoid the american chain resturants (McDonalds, KFC,

> etc)  It was the only place to eat on time (late afternoon, after pubs

> closed for the afternon and before anything else was open).  It was

> terrible!

> MAeve


I did McD's in London on a pinch- being vegetarian, I discovered that they serve

a very good Veggie burger, lots of curry.  So if you HAVE to eat at a McD's in

London, at least the veg burger was good, had real cheese not cheese food, and

made up for the quality of the shakes.



Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:25:08 -0700

From: "Balldrich BallBarian BoulderBain" <msca at c2i2.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Views on British Food


I remember that in Britain I was able to eat food that tasted great to me.

I found sandwich shops on Piccadilly and about a block north an American

Wendy's Burger place.  It was great.  I had fish, beef and mutton, and pork.

In combinations that tickled the tastebuds.  That is until I found a shop

catering to the tourist trade.  That food was nasty.

        I had pot pies of every variety and when we decided to not go out to eat

and found a Safeway (YES in Britain ) I found a whole isle of pot pie in

varieties that were wonderful.  I want to go back and have more of those

pies. . . sigh.

        Steak and Kidney pie is different in every shop and is interesting to

boot!  Only problem was that after we went back to Germany I ran out of the

pub mustard that was so good.  Couldn't get it in Germany and forget over

here.  Miss the curries and sauces a lot to.




Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 10:49:19 MST

From: "Padraig Ruad O'Maolagain" <padraig_ruad at irishbard.com>

Subject: Re: ANST - Black Knight?

To: <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG>


Tamlin said:



> Edward The Black Prince

>  b. June 15, 1330, Woodstock, Oxfordshire, Eng.

>  d. June 8, 1376, Westminster, near London



>CORNWALL, EARL OF CHESTER, son and heir apparent of Edward III of England


Just a bit of trivia to follow Tamlin's excellent info on the Black Prince - there is (or was, when I was last there in 1987) a pub in the town of Woodstock, Oxfordshire, England, called "The Black Prince", with a knight in black armour on its sign.  As I recall, they served an excellent locally made real ale.  I had not made the connection before (having been more concerned with the quality of the beer than the name of the pub), but now realize that it must have been named for Prince Edward.  Even after having lived in England for nearly 10 years, I still get pleasantly surprised at the connection there between modern life and thousands of years of history.





Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 18:26:17 -0400

From: "Erik Dutton" <edutton at carolina.rr.com>

To: <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>

Subject: RE: Visiting the Bath Costume Museum


> Is there anyone planning a visit to the Museum of Costume in Bath, UK in

> the near future?


> maaiken van hooydonck


Go! My lady and I went last year, and while the V&A may have a better

collection overall, we felt that the Bath museum had a better and more

complete display.


Also, if you can get hold of it, the current issue of "History for All", a

UK magazine, has a multi-page article on the collection.


Rhodri ap Hywel

House Andover




Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 17:27:11 -0000

From: Christina Nevin <cnevin at caci.co.uk>

Subject: RE: SC - Holidays


>Although I lived in the UK twenty-something years ago, I don't remember

>what's there or how it has changed.  Any recommendations as to shops or

>historical sites that are a "must see" would also be appreciated.


>      Gwendolen


York and York Minster are lovely, and the York Museum is good, but I'm told

the Jorvik (?) Viking Museum is overated and frustrating (it's one of those

whip-you-round-in-a-cart things where you can't stop and drool).

There is a page (or two or three) about visiting London on our Shirewebpage

the including names of some good restaurants (obligatory food content).

Have a look and if you have any further questions, you can email me



Here is the URL for the London Shire Webpage:


Click on the Visitors Info link.





Lady Lucrezia-Isabella di Freccia   |  mka Tina Nevin

Thamesreach Shire, The Isles, Drachenwald | London, UK

mailto:thorngrove at yahoo.com | http://www.geocities.com/~thorngrove



Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 09:29:33 +0100

From: "Cindy M. Renfrow" <cindy at thousandeggs.com>

Subject: RE: SC - Holidays


Hello!  I agree the Jorvik Viking Museum was pretty bad -- especially the

ride in odorama past second-rate dioramas with canned sound-tracks.


I believe the original poster asked about books...


A short walk from Yorkminster Cathedral is a very nice bookstore where I

found "The Appetite & the Eye" and other books in the Food and Society



In some English Heritage sites you can also find a collection of small

cookbooks put out by E.H., entitled Food & Cooking in... (Roman Britain,

16th century, prehistoric Britain, etc.). They're small, but well done.


If you go into a used bookshop, ask if they have a pamphlet guide to

Antiquarian & Second-hand Bookdealers.  I've got one here for NE England.

If you tell me the counties you're planning to visit, I'll post the names &






Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 09:22:05 EST

From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Holidays


cnevin at caci.co.uk writes:

<< but I'm told

the Jorvik (?) Viking Museum is overated and frustrating (it's one of those

whip-you-round-in-a-cart things where you can't stop and drool).  >>


While the main part of the attraction does involve travelling in a cart

through the reconstructed area, it moves fairly slowly. The fun stuff comes

after you get out of the cart - the reconstructed (complete with wax figures

of the scientists) labs showing how conservation etc is done, and the museum

of finds, where you can wander and study as long as you wish.  When my

husband and I were there two years ago, there was a costumed docent walking

about doing nalbinding, and another setting up to begin striking coins.  We

didn't consider it either over-rated or frustrating; we loved it.  And

neither of us does Viking persona.


Brangwayna Morgan



Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 12:45:29 -0500

From: Christine A Seelye-King <mermayde at juno.com>

Subject: SC - Jorvik


We loved the Jorvik Viking Center.  True, the odorama ride had it's

drawbacks, but it was very interesting nevertheless.  The exhibit after

is wonderful, and very well laid out.  We talked to the re-enactor who

was doing the coin strikes, and he turned us on to the smallest pub in

York, the Blue Bell.  When the three of us walked in, we doubled the

number of folks in the place, and filled it up.  We had a draft there

(the reason he sent us) called 'Waggledance'.  It is an ale made from

honey - not sweet, but with overtones of honey flavor over the ale.

Named Waggledance for the bee's directional dance to the hive when it has

found pollen sources, it is supposed to be much closer to the everyday

drink the Vikings were partaking in when in York (according to the fellow

at the museum.  I believe he plays with Regum Angelorum as well.)  It was

not like mead at all, like I said, it was not sweet, but did retain a

slight flavor of honey.  We struck up a conversation with a business

suited patron, who started talking about home-brewing and competitions.

He went on about how these judges did not know anything except bitter

stouts, and if you tried to introduce something new, they did not accept

it, and in general repeated many complaints we normally hear in the SCA

about competitions.  We smiled and commisserated with him, and generally

enjoyed our day in York very much.





Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 09:43:25 -0700

From: Mary Denise Smith <costumemag at costumemag.com>

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Butser Ancient Farm


>We at Butser Ancient Farm ( Butser.org), an Iron Age farm in Southern

>Britain, the place that formalised experiments in archaeology, are seeking

>ideas for Iron Age foods and cooking methods. We have grown the

>crops,(wheat, barley, beans), and kept the period animals for archaeological

>purposes for thirty years. We are beginning to develop a cook-book, and are

>thinking about methods and meals.


>jonathan.west1" <jonathan.west1 at virgin.net>

I got to see this place three years ago. The public season hadn't opened

yet, but the very kind man let us in and gave us a personal tour of the place.


Wow. I've been to and worked on historic sites from the Roman era thru

the early 20th century and there's always a moment when you feel like

you are in that "time out of time".


These folks have made the most amazing reconstructions. You walk into

them and you feel like you really have stepped back into the Iron Age.

Y'know, you can walk into some folk's homes and sit down to dinner at a

table made in the 18th Century. You can walk through a reconstructed

19th Century garden and imagine legions of gardeners working. These

things all have an expected sense of immediacy. I was not prepared for

the "reality" of those Iron Age reconstructed houses.


Anyway, if any of you are going to be in the south of England, do not

miss Butser or Weald and Downland.


BTW, there's a conference on Tudor food at Weald and Downland in July.





Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:38:31 -0500

From: "M+D: Mary and Doug Piero Carey" <mdcarey at compuserve.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Stonehenge access

To: sca-cooks-request at ansteorra.org, sca-cooks at ansteorra.org


Ah, but one CAN get inside the circle at Stonehenge!  These folks

specialize in such tours:



My husband & I went in 2002 & had a wonderful time.


Maria from Alderford



Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:16:12 -0700

From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat at in-tch.com>

Subject: OT Re: [Sca-cooks] Stonehenge access

To: mdcarey at compuserve.com, Cooks within the SCA

        <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


M+D: Mary and Doug Piero Carey wrote:

> Ah, but one CAN get inside the circle at Stonehenge!  These folks

> specialize in such tours:


> http://www.astraltravels.co.uk/uk-london-tours/

> stonehenge_access_tour.htm


> My husband & I went in 2002 & had a wonderful time.


> Maria from Alderford


Certainly, one can get in.  I picked up the info for it when I was

there.  But it's definitely not as casually-accessible as Newgrange,

which is pretty well protected itself, being a world-wide cultural

treasure (I forget the exact title).  I was able to go inside Newgrange

because I was part of a tour--the folks that run the park (or whatever

the site actually is) very carefully control access and time allowed in

the site itself.  One of my "it'll never happen" dreams would be to be

able to go back on Winter Solstice, but there's like a 10-year waiting

list.  *sigh*

That said, there's something absolutely mind-blowing about being able to

touch something *that OLD*, isn't there?




Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 22:11:28 -0500

From: "Elise Fleming" <alysk at ix.netcom.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] York: Was: Stonehenge Access

To: "Sue Clemenger" <mooncat at in-tch.com>, "Cooks within the SCA"

        <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


Maire wrote:

> Ooh! Ooh! Where in York was that dealer? <evil grin> I'd love to have

> something like that, although I think I'd be afraid to wear it!


I'd have to look up the name, but it was on the street near the Old Starr

Inn, from which one accesses Barley Hall.


> (snip)  had lunch in a restored 15th? century manor hall (definitely

> food-related)


Was this St. William's College near the Minster?  They had good food in

2002 although this year it wasn't as good as I remembered.  However, we

were the last folk to eat there - around 2 pm - and most of the food was

gone.  They had the _best_ Spotted Dick in 2002 and I was looking forward

to trying it again.


What I don't recommend is Russell's Carvery.  This was the second trip

where the meat was dry, except for the lamb.  For buying a $30-40 dinner,

one expects better food.  An excellent place to eat, pointed out to us by a

local, is Cafe No. 8, on Gillygate around the corner from Bootham Bar.

They use locally produced foods and the dishes are superb! Unfortunately,

the prices are reasonable for the locals but the current exchange makes it

pricey for us.  Dinner ranged from around 15 pounds to 20.  If that had been

dollars, it would have been fine.


Baguettes seem to be the way to go.  They are on long, thin French-type

bread with lots of filling and cost around 3-4 pounds.  Pasties also are

cheap, tasty and filling.  However, one needs to check the prices in the

various stores.  We found identical (so they appeared) pasties for 1.50 in

one location and for 85 pence in another.


Alys Katharine


<the end>

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