punishment-msg – 2/18/15

Period tortures, executions and punishements. Some of these would make good punishments for modern spammers and virus writers, although some are too mild.

NOTE: See also the files: p-police-msg, poisons-art, poisons-msg, med-law-art, p-customs-msg. 

************************************************************************
NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the individual authors.

Please  respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The  copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this time. If  information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************

From: tray0003 at gold.tc.umn.EDU (Virginia Traylor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Gaol Manners?
Date: 16 Nov 1994 16:27:55 -0500

>How much do you tip your executioner?

>I've seen "Lady Jane" and some other films with medieval themes, and
>they often show the condemned pressing a coin into the executioner's
>hand, if the executioner was an axeman or swordsman.  Was this actually
>done in period, or is this a Hollywood invention?  If so, how much was
>paid?  Did it matter whether the executioner was wielding an edged
>weapon, or were hangman tipped too?  I have absolutely no idea how to
>research this.

I vaguely remember this bit of trivia coming up in one of the history courses I 
took ages ago.  The professor loved relating stories such as how Queen Mary's 
dog took part in her beheading, etc.  I remember him saying you gave the 
executioner a tip to ensure that he would do his best to take your head off with
one blow.  If you were too cheap to tip, his arm might lose its strength and he 
might have to hack away several times ;-)

Ciara

Virginia Traylor
Institute for Community Integration
University of Minnesota
tray0003 at gold.tc.umn.edu


From: powers at cis.ohio-state.edu (william thomas powers)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Gaol Manners?
Date: 17 Nov 1994 09:50:31 -0500
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science

On executioners and executions:  I have a book called, _Justice Through the
Ages_ from the Criminal Justice Museum in Rotenburg ODT. It's full of many
interesting items including that if an executioner botched his job he might
be torn to pieces by the crowd, (it gives several examples of this).

Also; in one german town the punishment for promiscuity was that the lady
had to dance with the executioner, a major social stigma!

It also shows a period collection of laws with pictorial explanations of
what is involved.  The one dealing on inheritance of full and half brothers
uses two headed people and single headed people, a bit of unlooked for
surrealism.

In one castle I visited the entry way had a small sign hidden way up in one 
of the groins. It showed a stump with an axe cutting off a hand and said
"LandRecht" (sp).  I told my younger brother that it meant "Don't Touch"
I assumed that it implied that the Local Lord had the middle Justice.
Does anyone know if this is so?

wilelm the smith who finally has editing capabilities for postings!
(he still can't spell though)


From: archmonk at news.gate.net (John W. Missing)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Gaol Manners?
Date: 26 Nov 1994 02:25:25 -0500

Subject: Gaol Manners?

This message was from ARCHMONK to tccg at netcom.com (Tim McDaniel and Other Users
originally in conference  on CYBRGATE (CyberGate)
and was forwarded to you by JOHN MISSING

€‹›I've been reading Miss Manners lately -- a truly civilized delight!  I
€‹›came across an article of hers on tipping and wondered
€‹›
€‹›How much do you tip your executioner?
€‹›
€‹›I've seen "Lady Jane" and some other films with medieval themes, and
€‹›they often show the condemned pressing a coin into the executioner's
€‹›hand, if the executioner was an axeman or swordsman.  Was this actually
€‹›done in period, or is this a Hollywood invention?  If so, how much was
€‹›paid?  Did it matter whether the executioner was wielding an edged
€‹›weapon, or were hangman tipped too?  I have absolutely no idea how to
€‹›research this.
€‹›--
€‹›Lord Daniel de Lincoln, Barony of the Steppes, Ansteorra
€‹›(Recipient of the Award of the Sable Crane last Saturday!)
€‹›
€‹›Tim McDaniel
€‹›Dallas, TX -- 214 380-4876
€‹›    Be careful sending e-mail to this account: this is a shared account.

I have read of the practice of tipping the executioner.  In fact it
persists down to modern times in Saudi Arabia where they still practice
beheading.  Actually, it makes good sense because you certainly would
prefer that he use only one stroke of the sword or axe rather than
hacking your head off, which *would* hurt.

+ sinful monk Diormid, priest. rka Father Joseph mka John Missing +
(archmonk at gate.net)
                                                                               

Subject: ANST - Cruxcifixion - questions and answers
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 98 09:47:47 MST
From: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" <gdc at airmail.net>
To: <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG>

Lady Capricia d'Aulnay asks:
>2.  I was watching Jesus Christ Superstar the other night and begin to
>wonder about crucifixion.  When did it start and more importantly when did
>it end ?  Why was it decided that this was no longer the best
>punishment/death sentence?

To answer the first part of your first question crucifixion was used in many
differing forms at different periods in history. It was widely used by the
Phoenicians, Scythians, the Greeks, the Romans, The Persians, and the
Carthagenians. Constantine abolished cruxcifixion in 325.

 I would assume that the reason it was no longer utilized is due to
Constantine being a Christian.

Sources used to answer your question:
Medieval Punshiment, The Gutenberg Press, 1994.
Scott, George Riley, A History of Torture. Senate, 1995.
I have a couple more sources if you have further questions on this
particular subject of torture or if you have any other concerning torture in
period.

Genevieve de Courtanvaux


Subject: Re: ANST - Cruxcifixion - questions and answers
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 98 10:07:46 MST
From: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" <gdc at airmail.net>
To: <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG>

>To answer the first part of your first question crucifixion was used in many
>differing forms at different periods in history. It was widely used by the
>Phoenicians, Scythians, the Greeks, the Romans, The Persians, and the
>Carthagenians. Constantine abolished cruxcifixion in 325.

I need to correct one of my answers to you.....that of when crucifixion was
ended. According to A History of Torture crucifixion reemerged throughout
the centuries. In 1127 the last recorded crucifixion occurred in France.
Bertholde, the murderer of Charles the Righteous, was crucified by the order
of Louis.

Genevieve de Courtanvaux


[submitted by: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>]
Subject: Bilboes, Bridals, and Gibbets
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:29:30 EST
From: EoganOg at aol.com
To: jsutter at scotland.ces.state.nc.us
CC: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org

> This was WONDERFUL!!  Got anything on the tortures he used (I'm asking this
> for a very good reason- not because I want to try any of them :) .  Also, did
> he use the Tower of London alot?  I know it was still in use for quite awhile
>  after him, but some used it more than others.  Thanks, Kari Kyst

Oh, goody!  I finally get to use this cool guide book to the Tower of London I
found years ago called "Torture & Punishment" (there's a title that just
grabs you, huh?)!

Torture has always been something kept in secret (for obvious reasons) and we
know very little about torture within the Tower of London prior to the
sixteenth century.  The Tudors provide us with ample information,
however.
Here are some of the common impliments used:

THE RACK:
Invented by John Holland, Duke of Exeter, constable of the Tower under Henry
VI.  AKA Duke of Exeter's Daughter.  It's severity could be increased very
gradualy and held at any desired point.  There are many reports of those who
were unable to walk or use their hands after being racked.  Guy Fawkes was
racked, and the signiture on the confession he signed afterwards is almost
illegible.  Last recorded use of the rack was 1640 on John Archer.

THE SCAVENGER'S DAUGHTER:
AKA Skeffington's Gyves, after Leonard Skeffington who invented it as
Leutenant of the Tower under Henry VIII.  Mainly used in the 16th century as
an alternative to the rack, it crushed the body instead of stretched it.

MANACLES & GAUNTLETS:
The wrists of the victim were locked in a pair of iron fetters, joined by
either chain or bar.  This was then hooked over a staple fixed high on the
wall, leaving the prisoner suspended.  This caused intense pain and the loss
of the use of hands for some time afterwards (but not permanantly, as was the
case with racking).  First recorded at the Tower in 1591, but afterwards is
mentioned with more frequency than any other torture.  They were used in other
prisons as well, unlike the rack and Scavenger's Daughter, which were
confined to the Tower.

This book mankes mention that the Tower also had various manacles and fetters
to restict movement, of course, and various lesser torture devices such as
"pilliwinks which crushed the hands (and which were replaced by thumbscrews in
the 17th century), and spiked collars for the neck."


[submitted by rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>]
Subject: Re: Burnings....
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:46:43 -0500
From: Donald Wagner <polearmed at worldnet.att.net>
To: Corey R <stagepin3 at yahoo.com>
CC: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org

Corey R <stagepin3 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> FYI: when women were being burned for witchcraft, oftentimes their
> families were charged for the wood.
>
> Corey

Many people didn't survive the mutilations that took place before the
burning.  Brutal stuff and don't forget the boiling in oil part.  That
purified you, too.  All those with the tilt toward morbid and horrendous
treatment, could get a kick out of "Actes and Monuments of the Martyrs"
by John Foxe.  It was first printed and 1576 and it was the first real
English Bestseller.  I even own a couple of leafs from the 1576
printing.

Falcone


[submitted by: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>]
Subject: Re: Burnings....
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:09:03 -0500
From: Donald Wagner <polearmed at worldnet.att.net>
To: Corey R <stagepin3 at yahoo.com>, atlantia at atlantia.sca.org

I didn't mention that the modern version of this is widely known as:

Foxe's Book of Martyrs

Anyone in a protestant divinity school would be encouraged to read this,
though perhaps not required like I was, by their religious history
profs.

It is really an anti-catholic diatribe that the late period folk might
want to check out.  The original printing has a number of engravings
that offer a perspective on costume, tools, and great period
documentation.  Especially if you would like to know how to speak
forsoothly while your on fire.  You never know when you might need a
comeback for the multitudes of people from a lower social class who
giggle while you die.

Falcone


[submitted by: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>]
Subject: Re: Burnings....
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:21:06 EST
From: EoganOg at aol.com
To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org

polearmed at worldnet.att.net writes:
> Many people didn't survive the mutilations that took place before the
>  burning.

True.  The book I cited earlier says this about the effects of the rack: "In
1546 Anne Askew, accused of heresy, was racked to discover if she had been
supported by members of the court and shortly afterwards she had to be
carried to the stake at Smithfield, for she could no longer walk."

Eogan


[submitted by: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>]
Subject: Re: Burnings....
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:43:17 -0500
From: marybeth lavrakas <Marybeth_Lavrakas at med.unc.edu>
To: Donald Wagner <polearmed at worldnet.att.net>
CC: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org

RE: Foxe's Book of Martyrs, his NOTES(source materials he collected
prior to writing) have been published in a 2 or 3 volume work...Sorry
that I can't give the full citation right now, but can easily get it if
anyone want the info.  It's particularly interesting (to me) because of
what info he had in his notes but left out, or changed in the final
book.

Kathryn Rous


[submitted by: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>]
Subject: [Fwd: more questions]
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:45:42 -0500
From: marybeth lavrakas <Marybeth_Lavrakas at med.unc.edu>
To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org

Janine H Sutter wrote:
> Here are some other questions I have if anyone has answers :)
> 1)  Other than stocks, pillories,  hangings and decapitation, what other
> tortures were publically used during the reign of Henry VII through Eliz I?

For one, there was a metal head wrap, with either a bell attached to the
front, and sometimes a metal tongue depressor-like thing to go in the
mouth, that was used to publically humiliate 'scolds'.

And don't forget, hangings in really serious cases actually included the
full "hang, drawn, and quarter' routine.  Hanging rarely was a quick
process (you slowly choked to death, unless your friends/relatives were
allowed to pull on your legs & kill you quicker), so you could be cut
down, revived, had your entrails pulled out (sometimes disembowling
involved the person actually having to walk around a pole and thus pull
their own entrails out!) and genitals--if any--cut off, then your legs,
arms and finally head whacked off.

Limb removal, such as having a hand cut off, would be done in public.

Also, public whippings as punishment--in Norwich in 1528, for example,
the women convicted of participating in a grain riot were stripped to
the waist and 'whipped around the market square'.

Also, prisoners were sometimes left exposed to the elements to die
slowly.  And after the Pilgrimage of Grace the bodies of rebels were
hung up in cages to rot away & serve as a warning to other.

> 2)  How were women of all class levels treated during this period? Virtual
> slaves, decoration or as an intellegent human?

It is impossible to generalize, beyond saying that their legal and
social positions were *different* from modern western women.  Most women
did not have legal standing as 'adults' (they were covered by their
husbands or fathers), except for widows, and in London the femme soles.
Actually, come to think of it, a number of unmarried women had plenty of
legal pull, even if their legal guardians were supposed to be a parent
or brother.  Most women were not literate, but some were & well
respected for it.

> 3) How many gaurds do you SUPPOSE a prisoner in the Tower of London would have
> assigned to them if they were allowed to roam about?  Or, would they have been
> given no gaurds and been trusted to stay within the Tower?

I can't think of any prisoners who were just allowed to 'roam around' in
the Tower.  Elizabeth, for example, was allowed to exersize outside in a
very narrow walk-way, but it wasn't like she could just decide 'hey, I'm
sick of the Bell Tower, I think I'll go hang out at the White Tower
right now."  Remember that the Tower is not a single building, it is a
fortress, it was garrisoned, and escape very difficult (although it did
sometimes happen.  There were always guards at the Tower (still are,
actually!)

A very good source to read on all this is TREASON IN TUDOR ENGLAND  (I
think the author is R. Bellamy?).

Kathryn Rous
(gentrywoman, Norwich, 1531)


[submitted by: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>]
Subject: torture in England (was questions)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 09:33:47 -0500
From: jsrechts at imap.unc.edu
To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org

One question which Pedro partially addressed was:  1) Other than stocks,
pilories, hangings and decapitation, what other tortures were publically used
during the reign of Henry VII through Eliz I.?  Pedro mentioned England
not being a torture prone kingdom and the use of peine forte et dure.

There are two issues here, the first, torture as punishment and second,
torture as a way of securing a conviction and both are different.  Most
public punishments were corporal but that doesn't necessarily constitute
torture, it's more
"cruel and unusual punishment" (though then it wasn't seen that way
then).  In otherwords, one wasn't put on a rack as punishment for a
crime.  The legally sanctioned use of torture was introduced to England
during the reign of Edward II during the Templar trials.  Some sources
said that it was not a practice that was gleefully undertaken but
came into being due to pressure from rulers (secular and ecclesiastical)
outside of England.  Torture of suspects became more routine during the
the Tudor Era, especially Henry VIII and Eliz's. reigns.  Elizabeth's
reign was particularily harsh for those who did not agree with her
views.

She was essentially a Renaissance Stalin.  These interrogations were not
public and were incredibly brutal.  It also depended on what you were
being tried for and who you were.  If one was accused of say, stealing a
cow, one could pay for a lawyer (or be lucky enough to have one working
pro bono) along with having a trial by jury.

If one was arrested for treason, the circumstances changed.  One notable
aspect during the Tudor era was that those accused of treason were for
the most part, not permitted to have a lawyer.

On the Continent (especially Germany), the use of torture became much
more widespread and legally sanctioned during the Renaissance.
Of course, there is a big difference between the formal, legal use of
torture vs. extrajudicial use torture of suspects.  It's similar to the
use of torture today, some countries ban it, others allow torture as
part of the judicial process, many ban torture but it's employed anyway.

Lyanna


[submitted by: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>]
Subject: Crucifiction? was( RE: torture in England (was questions)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 06:39:37 -0800
From: Becky McEllistrem <beckymc at MICROSOFT.com>
To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org

I guess I should be checking the religious books in my own parents'
library but all this talk about torture got me to thinking about
crucifiction.  Besides the obvious example of Jesus I know that
crucifiction was common for some time I believe in the Byzantine era.
However I see no medievalists discussing crucifiction as a common
torture.  Does this mean that crucifiction died out in early period?

Rebecca


[submitted by: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>]
Subject: Tower of London
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:25:13 -0500
From: marybeth lavrakas <Marybeth_Lavrakas at med.unc.edu>
To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org

I forgot to mention a couple of other little items about the Tower (one
of my favorite places to visit, kinda like a historian's mini-disney
world!).  In period it was surrounded by a moat (now a nice grassy area
where the guard can walk their dogs...).  Also there was a gatehouse on
the City side of the moat (you can see the excavated foundations of it
when you exit the Tower Hill tube station), then a gatehouse at the
bridge over the moat, and so on.

I can only assume there were ravens at the Tower in our period, but I
assume they weren't like the ones there now, with the clipped wings and
comfy little houses.  But I did notice last time I was there that the
Keepr of the Ravens (or whoever is responsible) was a bit derelict in
picking up after the birds' meals...the ground near their perches were
strewn with bones!  Very atmospheric.


[submitted by: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>]
Subject: Crucifiction? was( RE: torture in England (was questions) (fwd)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:02:51 -0600 (CST)
From: clevin at ripco.com (Craig Levin)
To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org (Merry Rose)

Tristan de Roquelaure:

> >However I see no medievalists discussing crucifiction as a common
> torture.  Does this mean that crucifiction died out in early period?<

Quite probably.

> Actually, I think it was b/c of the religious ramifications of it....
> The church was, in a way, the "head" of England, and they would have
> viewed it as a sacrament to "crucify" someone as Christ has been.
> To them, it woudl have been immoral...

Doubtful. Other people were put to death or suffered penalties
similar to the martyrdoms of various saints (eyes being
removed-St. Lucia, for example).

Also, sacraments are not just "anything connected with religion."
There are, at least in the Catholic canon of the time, a limited
no. of sacraments, including baptism, confirmation, marriage,
ordination (for those taking the other alternative), last rites,
confession, and communion. On occasion, the Church tried to
co-opt dubbing to knighthood, but knighthood's strong secular
self-identity saved it from that fate.

Crucifixion is a particularly nail-intensive way to go. Nails
were hard to make and expensive, and could be spent on better
things than felons. Also, a great deal of post-antique European
law derives from Germanic law, which didn't include crucifixion;
it did do other things, like getting chucked into a bog after
being choked.

> But the The question that arrises to me is that they considered the
> tortures "due justice", but wouldn't it have been about the same thing?

There's torture, and then there's torture, as an earlier poster
noted.

Pedro


[submitted by: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>]
Subject: Bilboes, Bridals, and Gibbets
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:54:02 +0000
From: Robert J Welenc <rjwelenc at erols.com>
To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org

>THE RACK:
>THE SCAVENGER'S DAUGHTER:
>MANACLES & GAUNTLETS:

There was also the the handy-dandy do-it-yourself method that was
reportedly used on Mark Smeaton to obtain his confession of adultery
with Anne Boleyn -- a knotted rope tied about the head and tightened
with a stick, just like a torniquet.

Poke your own thumbs into your temples for just a taste of how
painful this one could be.

Alanna


[submitted by: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>]
Re: Crucifiction? was( RE: torture in England (was questions)(fwd)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:00:55 -0600 (CST)
From: clevin at ripco.com (Craig Levin)
To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org (Merry Rose)

> beckymc at MICROSOFT.com writes:
> <<
>  I guess I should be checking the religious books in my own parents'
>  library but all this talk about torture got me to thinking about
>  crucifiction.  Besides the obvious example of Jesus I know that
>  crucifiction was common for some time I believe in the Byzantine era. >>
>
> I have a further question about this, unrelated to Middle ages, if you will be
> willing to humor me.  Was crucifiction truly a common form of putting people
> to death before the middle ages?  The reason I ask this is that I had once
> heard the reference to the Romans of Jesus' time not using it as an average
> form of punishment, but rather reserved  it for more serious crimes (including
> in their eyes treason), sort of to make a public example out of the specific
> person.

I don't know about the people of Mesopotamia or Egypt, but I do
know that the ancient Jews' preferred form of the death penalty
was stoning, also a very public and painful way to die, as all of
your friends (at least, they _were_ your friends, once) and
neighbors bounce softball-sized rocks off you in this form of
execution. The Romans did practice mass crucifixions-vide the
punishment for the slaves who participated in the Spartacist
uprising-but that, again, was for unusual crimes.

Craig Levin


From: powers at woodstock.cis.ohio-state.edu (william thomas powers)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pattern for stocks
Date: 12 May 1998 16:02:45 -0400
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science

>>       I am once again comming out of lurking on one of my crazy
>> quests. I am in need of a good, relatively simple pattern for stocks.

Did they not become a part of the english uniform *after* 1600?
(to protect foot soldiers from sword cuts to the neck IIR...)

On the other hand if you refer to a method of restraint for malefactors
may I suggest "Criminal Justice Through the Ages"  a book put out by the
Medieval Criminal Justice  Museum in Rothenburg ODT, Germany

Thomas


Subject: Re: ANST - Prison
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 99 16:37:13 MST
From: CADET1313 at aol.com
To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG

<< Does anyone know of a good source for info on period prisons and the like?
Ld. Robert James MacLeod
 Stronghold of Falconridge >>

You might try Dark Justice   A history of punishment and torture by Karen
Farrington  isbn 0 765 199106
It is not just a prison book but it is on my top ten of good books on period
torture and punishment :o)

Ld Pieter Rausch


Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:29:02 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: OT Silliness Re: SC - introduction

"Alderton, Philippa" wrote:
> Adamantius asks:
> >My_ queston is do you cook different cultures differently, i.e. are
> Southern Chinese chowed or stir-fried, while Englishmen are boiled, etc.?
>
> Why, certainly, Adamantius. And British Romans are crucified and sun dried
> before boiling.....

Good thing I'm Roman British, then! Besides, they don't get crucified,
etc. We're citizens. _We_ get barbecued in man-shaped wicker cages. Not
that any of this compares with the stress I'm actually under, at the moment.

Adamantius
- --
Phil & Susan Troy


Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:32:58 -0500
From: Stefan li Rous <stefan at texas.net>
Subject: SC - Anti meat  sympathies

You also said in another message:
>  'Tacked 'em to the wall' you say?  

Well, yes. In some cases.

I'm not quite sure what this was in reference to. However, it does
remind me of an interesting tidbit I saw recently while reading 
"London Bodies - the Changing Shape of Londoners from Prehistoric
Times to the Present Day" published by The Museum of London.

p55 There is a picture of squarish piece of brown, wrinkled thin skin
with a corner torn off.

The caption says:
"'Dane's skin' from the door of Southwark Cathedral. Popular tradition
claims that the Vikings who were caught pillaging churches were
flayed alive and their skins nailed to the church door. Several of
these skins have been found on church doors in Essex and elsewhere,
but their origins are unclear. The skin is almost certainly human."

Something often forgotten. The Vikings didn't always win, or at
least not all individuals did.
- -- 
THLord  Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
Mark S. Harris             Austin, Texas         stefan at texas.net


From: wtp at nds10758.cb.lucent.com (Powers)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period Hairdressings?
Date: 6 Jun 2001 17:46:40 GMT
Organization: Lucent Technologies, Columbus, Ohio

>>i have very short hair and was wondering if women use to wear short hair
>>and/or if there is a period way to cover my hair up.
>
>I have not seen any evidence that women in period wore their hair short.  

Try "Justice Through the Ages" from the Medieval Criminal Justice Museum,
Rothenberg ODT.  

Cutting the hair short was used as part of the punishment for "loose morals"
in certain times and places.  Also shaving the head was considered a treatment
for madness or severe fever IIRC

OTOH hair was generally covered except for maidens.

W.Thomas Powers


Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:44:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Diana Skaggs <liadan at sbcglobal.net>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Fwd: [mooneschadowe] Oxbow's Quirky Book of the 
month

Since we've all been talking book collecting lately, here's an offering 
from our local librarian.

Liadan

Christina L Biles <bilescl at okstate.edu> wrote:
To: mooneschadowe at yahoogroups.com
From: Christina L Biles
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 08:50:10 -0500
Subject: [mooneschadowe] Oxbow's Quirky Book of the month

(5) Quirky Book of the Month

In our quest for a new level of bad taste, OXeN presents you with a book
that may not have you laughing your head off, but certainly provides ample
warnings about monarchs, and why upsetting them has never been a good
idea. Gruesome, ghoulish, fascinating and foul ... why not try to get 
your head around this one:

Severed Heads: British Beheadings through the Ages
http://www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.cfm?&ID=36114&MID=10684


To: Gleann Abhann (mail list) <gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: tools of persuasion
Posted by: "karllvonzollern" lokanthony at yahoo.com karllvonzollern
Date: Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:58 am ((PST))

<<< If you have evidence of the Gullotine being used in period, I'd sure like to see it. I was under the impression that it was invented just before or during the French Revolution in the 19th Century.

Why use a mechanical device when we have a number of strong man at arms or even husky peasants who can remove a head cleanly, especially if the er, traitor, is willing to tip them well.

Stefan >>>

Having constructed a full-size guillotine when I was in the 10th grade (for a French project, that won a MS State contest) I made an extensive research on the machine. It was truly first constructed in the 18th century. However, it had several grandfathers.

The first known was an example in ancient Persia. The most well known, and physically reminecient was the Halifax Gibbet, cir.1066. Its first documented in picture form in the 1250's; and, was used till 1650 when the Scottish Maiden was officially in use. It was the first to be used for executions of all levels of society. The Irish had a similar tool, known as the Irish Lopper, used around the beginnings of the 12th century.

Another example of a Guillotine-like apparatus was the Italian Mannaia. It was reserved for only the upper classes, cir.1600.

One of the aforementioned machines would probably be a great addition to any traveling torture chamber, though, if your "Guillotine-like" machine is as big as mine (about 15 ft. tall and 10 ft. long, by 5 ft. wide) you'll need a trailer just for it!

Ld. Karll Von Zollern
aka: Brother Karl


Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2013 10:43:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] What's the right cheese for an interrogation?

While the Romans liked certain cheeses from Gaul and Brie cheese was  
already famous in the late medieval period, "cheese" in the early medieval  
period typically is just "cheese" - no region, type, qualification, etc.

But here - from the Carolingian period - is one slightly more precise  
reference. This is one of a number of texts describing the curious "trial by  
bread and cheese", in which the accused was given bread (here, unleavened 
barley  bread) and cheese and considered guilty if he or she could not keep it 
down. In  this case, the cheese to be used is a "formaticus Maiensis de 
ovibus" of 9  denarii weight - that is, a May sheep's cheese.

http://www.dmgh.de/de/fs1/object/goToPage/bsb00000838.html?pageNo=631&sortI
ndex=020%3A060%3A0001%3A010%3A00%3A00&sort=score&order=desc&context=formatic
um&hl=false&fulltext=formaticum

May cheese is mentioned in later texts like the Enseignemens - it  
essentially means spring cheese and one such cheese (very much like a soft  Gouda) can sometimes be found at Trader Joe's. So, if there's someone you want  to interrogate....

Jim  Chevallier


Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2013 12:04:17 +0000
From: "Groff, Garth (ggg9y)" <ggg9y at virginia.edu>
To: "atlantia at atlantia.sca.org" <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>,
	"isenfir at atlantia.scalists.org" <isenfir at atlantia.scalists.org>
Subject: [MR] Interesting Stuff on Wikipedia

Yesterday Wikipedia featured an article about being hanged, drawn and quartered: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanged,_drawn_and_quartered . This particular suite of punishments are often described as first applied to William Wallace, however, as the article clearly states, such gruesome state-sponsored demises were inflicted on malefactors back in the early 1200s.

Lord Mungo Napier, The Archer of Mallard Lodge


Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 19:34:11 +1000
From: bsrlee <bsrlee2 at pacific.net.au>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] old style steppe pagans and punishments
To: The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list <lochac at lochac.sca.org>

On 11-Jul-13 8:59 AM, tamara at suncrow.com wrote:
<<< On 2013-07-10 17:56, Y Howard wrote:
<< Mongolian and similar steppe cultures - spilling the blood of kings
was considered a terrible thing to do, so instead they rolled them up
and ran a herd of horses across the unfortunate kingieman. Hey presto,
dead, and no blood spilled. >>

I believe strangling with a bowstring was also popular.

Kazimira >>>

Strangulation with a bow string was a Turkish speciality, and as with 
trampling to death, it took several people (or horses) to accomplish the 
execution. Again there is a religious element there, archery being 
considered specially blessed among the Moslems as well as the spreading 
of resonsibility among several persons.

Brusi of Orkney


Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 04:51:20 -0500
From: Garth Groff via Atlantia <atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org>
To: Merry Rose <atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org>
Subject: [MR] Wikipedia: George, Duke of Clarence Offed

On this day in 1478, George, First Duke of Clarence, was executed in the 
Tower of London on the orders of King Edward IV. Clarence was the king's 
brother, and apparently a loose cannon of sorts, who recklessly plotted 
against Edward one too many times (the article doesn't go into great 
detail about this). Clarence was not offed by Richard III, as 
Shakespeare would have us believe, though Richard probably would have 
gotten rid of him had the Duke survived. Whether he was actually drowned 
in a vat of malmsey (at his own request, as some sources say) is not a 
proven fact, but it does make for interesting speculation: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Plantagenet,_1st_Duke_of_Clarence .

Lord Mungo Napier, That Crazy Scot

<the end>
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