wood-msg - 2/8/08 Different types of wood, period terms. NOTE: See also the files: woodworking-msg, wood-bending-msg, wood-finishes-msg, tools-msg, tools-bib, polishing-msg, plane-art, pigments-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: corliss at hal.PHysics.wayne.EDU (David J. Corliss) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Oak and ash: a thorny question Date: 2 Mar 1994 11:39:55 -0500 As an answer to the question: "What wood is used for spear shafts and axe hafts" in the Viking Age quiz, it was written: > Ash or Oak Allow me to be more specific. We must recall that there are many differents kinds of ashes and oaks, including cork (oak). The answer should be (my opinion only): _Black_ Ash (now used for poles for pole vaulting, baseball bats, etc) and _White_ Oak. All oaks have natural open spaces in the wood. Some are so extensive that they leave no strength (see cork, above). In white oak, these voids are filled with the glue that holds the wood fibers together to form the tree. Thus, it is exceptionally strong. While on the subject, white oak is a pain in the neck to work (by hand) and so is not used except when neccessary. Red oak is the variety most commonly found in this country. In the middle ages, black oak was generally used. However, the differences between black oak and red oak are so slight that lumber yards make no distinction. (Red is New World; black was brought over by early colonists.) I am informed that about 10% of all wood sold as "red oak" in the U.S. is, in fact, black oak. Thus, red oak should be the oak of choice in our recreations, except when another is specifically required in a particular project. Beorthwine From: ayotte at milo.NOdak.EDU (Robert Arthur Ayotte) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Oak and ash: a thorny question Date: 3 Mar 1994 13:54:46 -0500 Organization: North Dakota State University ACM, Fargo ND In article <9403021634.AA10282 at hal.physics.wayne.edu> you wrote: : As an answer to the question: "What wood is used for spear shafts and axe : hafts" in the Viking Age quiz, it was written: : > Ash or Oak : While on the subject, white oak is a pain in the neck to work (by hand) andso : is not used except when neccessary. : .......... This has been a public service message from the Middle : Kingdom College of Sciences........... : Beorthwine Howdy from Horace one time MoS/A for a smallish group in the Middle, First, white oak when worked green is fairly easy to work and very flexable. The nature of the wood tends to prevent it from spliting or worping when it dries. Examples are the white oak baskets that are hand stripped from logs, and other tools. It makes great handles but when cured/dry it is a pain to work. A note on oak species. (Sorry the botanist creeping out) Many oaks freely hybridize in the wild, so if you select your own woods in the forest keep in mind leaf ID is not always valid without secondary confirmation, and the wood may not be similar to others that appear to be from the same species. Second, there are many oaks as Beorthwine pointed out, common names can often be confusing ESP in different parts of the country or world. In the south I have often heard Blackjack oak refered to as black oak (shor scrubby trees) that I doubt any would wish to make things from (as the wood I have seen tends to misshape when drying.) Another thing, one can often buy handle blanks and save a lot of work. White oak does resit breakage for throwing axes (but nothing lasts forever). Hope this bit of trivia is interesting. Horace From: corliss at hal.PHysics.wayne.EDU (David J. Corliss) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Oak and Ash Date: 4 Mar 1994 13:42:47 -0500 Organization: The Internet Hrolf has sent unto me this question. I felt many would like to hear the answer and several could better it. He writes: > Please, If I may ask, > What wood types are common to the North of the Deciduos > Tree Line (Norway, my home town.) > Purpose: Shields Spear shafts hull & keel timbers Crossbows (not that I know of the Norse using them) In general, the question you ask is: what wood has the highest strength-to-weight ratio that I can get, so long as it has enough strength to do the job? Spruce has a very high strength-to-weight ratio: it is even higher than oak and ash. This wood would have been used for both shields and ships. For shields, the grain must be _vertical_ (that way, a downstroke caught by the shield has a good chance of getting the weapon wedged into the wood). For ships, the hull must be _clinker-built_ (boards overlapping at the edges, as oppssed to carvel-built: edges of the board butted together) for added strength. Alas, spruce simply is not strong enough for spear shafts. Therefore, it must be imported to areas that do not support deciduous trees. Beorthwine From: jjordan at yorick.umd.edu (James L. Jordan) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Thakka Feyrir, Vanaheim Vikings Date: 13 Apr 1994 12:36:43 -0400 Organization: University of Maryland, College Park Hvordan har du det? As to period viking woods, Oak was a biggy for furniture and yew was used mostly for bows and small things. Oak was also used in building their ships, if your planning that sort of project (maybe not). In looking through my 'Vikings to Crusader' (very good stuff) I found maple and beach were used a lot for some furniture (chairs). As to how closely related white oak is to the european strain, I can't really say. The maple is pretty close in grain, color, etc. P.S. every chest I have read that bothered to give the wood type was oak. Understandable if you're trying to build strong. Ha det Bra! Thorvald Hrafnsson, Atlantia From: haslock at oleum.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Thakka Feyrir, Vanaheim Vikings Date: 14 Apr 1994 00:51:01 GMT Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Greetings from Fiacha, According to reports, the Irish used lots of Yew for utensils. I recall one reference to bog fig, fir trees that had been absorbed into the peat bogs. I don't know of references to oak being used in a similar fashion. Also, maple is unknown in England but Sycamore is similar and currently common. I don't known long this has been so. Fruit woods, apple, pear, cherry were available but I do not know of any references to their use. Kipling referred to Elm as coffin wood but I don't know why. Woods that bear investigation are birch, beech and box. I was told that box was so named because it was considered ideal for making boxes out of. Beech is still considered to be one of the best woods for household artefacts. The best answer is still to study atefacts but I hope this helps a little. Fiacha From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Thakka Feyrir, Vanaheim Vikings Date: 18 Apr 94 11:03:06 Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK. >Also, maple is unknown in England but Sycamore is similar and >currently common. I thought maple wasn't a European wood, but in "The Vikings in England, and in their Danish Homeland" (which is the catalogue of an exhibition that toured Denmark and England in 1981/82) there is an entry on page 34 as follws: " B42 The Ringerike style: the ornament on a maple wood walking stick Lund, Sweden: from the settlement. KM [59] 26:795] The upper part is shaped like an animal head with a mane of curved tendrils. the name 'Ulvkil' is inscribed in runes 29cm below the ornament L. 98.5cm Ringerike style animals are well built and thie anatomy is instantly recognisable. they are however characterised, and almost dominated, by attenuated curving tendrils, a feature which was the result of influences from abroad - from the contemporary Winchester style in England, for example (see K16) The style takes its name from Ringerike, a region in Norway where it is strongly represented. Date c975-1050." Either someone mis-identified the wood, or they mistranslated another tree name to maple, or there were maples around in Northern europe at the time. maybe I'd better go hunt out my tree identifiers and see what they say about maples. The danish book with illustrations giving constructional details on Viking age woodwork is: Series title: Danmarkshistorien Volume title: Vikingetiden Author: Frank Birkebaek ISBN 87-7324-485-6 (for one volume) ISBN 87-7324-638.7 (for the whole series) publishers: Forlagt Sesam a/s, Kobenhavn 1982 This is part of a series on Denmark's history, there are two volumes on the viking age. teh one above is the one with cooking items such as kneading troughs, buckets, bowls etc. and textile implements such as looms, skein winders etc. The other one of the pair is the one with furniture, and boxes, but i left that at home, so I can't give you the details right now, but if you can get at an inter-library loan database, you should be able to find them both with that amount of information. don't be put off by the fact that the books are in Danish, the line drawings are very clear without the text. The book on the finds from Dublin is Title: Viking-Age Decorated Wood, a study of it's ornament and style Author: James T. Lang Publishers: Royal Irish Academy 1988 ISBN: 0 901714 68 2 hardback 0 901714 69 0 paperback As the title suggests this book is more concerned with decoration than function, many items are fragmentary, but the sorts of things represented are: a small carved box & lid, a stopper, stylus, weavers swords, toggles, an awl, knife handles, bowls, spoons, winders, a harness bow, a plane, a writing tablet, a shuttle(?), a carding comb, toys, and fragments of larger things like benches and chairs. Well worth a look if you want to whittle designs onto your woodwork, the carving is mostly quite simple but very effective. Once you've copied a few pieces with the book in front of you it becomes quite easy. Many everyday items were decorated with some sort of incised ornament, so a bit of whittling does not necessarily mean that the item belonged to a noble. I have sat around camp fires whittling designs onto plain wooden items, people never fail to be impressed by the results, though it is really very simple to do if you have a good sharp knife. I would imagine that many of the carved items in the book were produced in a similar fashion: by someone whiling away a long evening. After a while you start to find that all your wooden kit is covered in doodles, to the extent that I now have carving even on my wooden tent pegs and mallet, I'm running out of things to carve, and have taken to sawing up planks to make candle holders to decorate. Be warned this whittling can be addictive! The book on the Gokstad ship is worth a look if you can track it down, but it's over a hundred years old now so it can be hard to find. It has detailed line drawings of the woodwork from the ship which includes: candleholders, beds, a carved tent frame, bowls, shields, a game board, a wooden needle, a cup, bowls and trenchers, and of course the ship itself complete with oars and sail. Title: The Viking-ship Discovered at Gokstad in Norway Author: N. Nicolaysen Publishers: Alb. Cammermeyer 1882 There are plenty of other books with woodwork in them, but these are the ones that firts sprung to mind, let me know if you want any more info. Jennifer/Rannveik Vanaheim Vikings. From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Thakka Feyrir, Vanaheim Vikings Date: 15 Apr 94 19:48:39 Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK. > Kipling referred to Elm as coffin wood but I don't know why. Elm is amazingly resistant to rotting, for this reason it is the trasitional material used for wooden wheelbarrows which were often left standing with wet loads, and were regularly left out in the rain. Similarly hollow elm pipes were used for sewers in medieval london. Some of the sewers were still in use within living memory and hadn't rotted despite centuries under their odious load. I would imagine that if elm were used in a coffin it would be for it's proof against rotting. I believe Elm was used in the timbers of the tent buried with the Oseberg ship (8th century). The ships tents could be pitched on the ship or on land, so they probably got wet a lot, and I daresay that was the reason for choosing elm. Fruitwood is very hard even when green, so I don't think it was much used in everyday woodwork, though I'm ready to be corrected if anyone knows better. Early medieval woodworking was mostly done with green wood, that's why English Tudor buildings are all so crooked: as the wood dried it tended to move a bit. In Germant they used pre-seasoned pine for their buildings, and they came out much straighter, they also got more decorated buildings because the pine was so much easier to work than even green oak. I agree that oak was the prefered wood for most tasks, England used to be covered in Oak woodland, there's not a lot left now. But other woods had particular uses. e.g. In the traditional windsor chairs different woods were employed for each part of the chair, I can't recall which were used where right now, but I can go check it out. Jennifer/Rannveik Vanaheim vikings -- Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: keegan at netcom.com (Tim Bray/C. Keegan) Subject: Re: Thakka Feyrir, Vanaheim Vikings Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 1994 15:37:51 GMT Nigel Haslock (haslock at oleum.zso.dec.com) wrote: : Also, maple is unknown in England but Sycamore is similar and currently common. : I don't known long this has been so. Fruit woods, apple, pear, cherry were : available but I do not know of any references to their use. Kipling referred : to Elm as coffin wood but I don't know why. What is called sycamore in America is a different tree in Europe. European sycamore is called Plane tree. Limewood was frequently used for applications that required strength and toughness, especially in thin pieces - like small boxes, coffers, carvings (especially religious), etc. Numerous examples exist in museums. Elm is extremely tough and, as Rannveigr points out, water-resistnt. It was used for a variety of applications, including furniture. : Woods that bear investigation are birch, beech and box. I was told that box was : so named because it was considered ideal for making boxes out of. Beech is : still considered to be one of the best woods for household artefacts. Boxwood was used a lot for miniature carvings with lots of detail - it is very fine-grained. The Metropolitan Museum of Art in NYC has a couple of incredible examples. It was also used for musical instruments (along with lime, I believe). Also basswood (linden), pear, etc. : The best answer is still to study atefacts but I hope this helps a little. A couple of references I have that discuss period woods: Know Your Woods: A Complete Guide to Trees, Woods, and Veneers. Albert Constantine, Jr. ISBN 0-684-18778-7 (Macmillan Publishing, NY) Oak Funriture, The British Tradition. Victor Chinnery. ISBN 1 85149 013 2 (Antique Collector's Club, Woodbridge, Suffolk UK) Have fun, Colin Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: keegan at netcom.com (Tim Bray/C. Keegan) Subject: Re: Thakka Feyrir, Vanaheim Vikings Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 1994 16:13:15 GMT I missed the origin of this thread, so apologies if this is redundant or out of place. Doug Brunner (techws at hp-pcd.hp.cv.com) wrote: : There are many types of wood available, here. I know that the Middle Age : Western Europe had Oak and Walnut. I'm not sure about other types of wood. : As an example, Yew wood. I don't believe that the Pacific Yew is that similar. : The Yew, here, is red. I believe that the UK has Alder, but I'm not sure. What : are/were the common woods? The Oak and Walnut are a different Genus, : but they seem to be similar in appearance. Also, what about different types : of Maple, Acer Genus? A book called - Oak Funiture: The British Tradition (Victor Chinnery, 1979, reprinted 1993, ISBN 1 85149 013 2 published by Antique Collector's Club Ltd, Woodbridge, Suffolk, IP12 1DS UK - contains a wealth of info about woods and their uses in Britain prior to 1750, including much on the Middle Ages. European Oak is Quercus robur (also "sessile oak," Q. petraea). Basically, nothing available today is comparable to Medieval oak, because the habit of growth is different now (as a result of the complete loss of the old-growth forest cover). American White Oak (Q. alba) "is very similar to the European Q. robur, with a finely pronounced figure, and similar working properties... It is virtually indistinguishable in use from robur, even by microanalysis..." If you are going to do medieval furniture, try to get quartersawn white oak; it comes closest to the appearance and properties of "period" oak. Other woods used for medieval furniture include: Ash (Fraxinus excelsior) - easily riven into thin boards; widely used by turners for chairmaking Elm (Ulmus procera - English; U. x hollandica - Dutch) Very tough and difficult to cleave; used for table-tops & chair seats Beech (Fagus sylvatica) - inferior to ash, and not much to look at, so usually covered with fabric, paint, etc. Walnut (Juglans regia) - supposedly introduced to Britain by the Romans; most period walnut thought to have been imported from France, Italy, Spain... widely used fro furniture of all types. Chestnut (Castanea sativa) lloks a lot like oak without the ray structure. Used for many of the same purposes - timber framing and furniture. Pear, Apple, etc. - hard, used fro turnings Sycamore (Acer pseudo platanus) also good for turning and used for eating utensils, since it doesn't lend a taste to food. I have seen possets and trenchers from sycamore. Maple (Acer campastris, European field maple) apparently used only occasionally for furniture. Poplar (Populus nigra, P. alba) - Medieval chests, used for the lids! Later used for chair-seats, etc. Deals (Pine, larch, spruce) Highly valued in England in the XVIc for wall-panelling and also for furniture. In 1252, Henry III specified Norwegian pine boards for wall-panelling at Winchester Castle. In the Alpine countries, lots of pine was used fro architectural woodwork and furniture. Hope this is of interest to you. What sorts of items do you contemplate making? Sharp CHisels, Sir Colin dearg, West From: sclark at epas.utoronto.ca (Susan Clark) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: HISTORIC ASSIST???? Date: 14 Apr 1994 00:40:12 GMT Organization: EPAS Computing Facility, University of Toronto Greetings... There is a good number of wooden items illustrated in _The Archaeology of Novgorod, Russia_, M. Brisbane, ed. (lincoln: The Society for Medieval Archaeology, monography 13, 1992). Good stuff like combs and spoons, many of them nicely carved. Cheers! Nicolaa/Susan Canton of Eoforwic sclark at epas.utoronto.ca Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: mittle at watson.ibm.com (Arval d'Espas Nord) Subject: Thakka Feyrir, Vanaheim Vikings Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 17:24:11 GMT Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research [Posted for Mistress Thora Sharptooth] Greetings from Thora Sharptooth! I hope it's not too late to get in on this thread. Bruno from Coeur du Val (techws at hp-pcd.hp.cv.com) wrote: >I'm looking mostly for the Day to Day things, >such as tool chests, scribe equipment, etc. [....] >I'm looking mostly for things that may be interesting, but very >portable. I have to carry it from show to show. There's a gorgeous carved box (I forget if it's the "pen box" or the "document box") illustrated in FROM VIKING TO CRUSADER. It's formed of one piece of wood with a (pivoting?) top, deeply carved with entwined ribbon beasties. >There are many types of wood available, here. I know that the Middle Age >Western Europe had Oak and Walnut. I'm not sure about other types of wood. >As an example, Yew wood. I don't believe that the Pacific Yew is that similar. >The Yew, here, is red. I believe that the UK has Alder, but I'm not sure. What >are/were the common woods? The Oak and Walnut are a different Genus, >but they seem to be similar in appearance. Also, what about different types >of Maple, Acer Genus? For types of wood, I first looked at the few notes I was able to make in my encounter with the OSEBERGFUNDET books and found mention of the following woods. ash (construction framing, barrel hoops) beech (troughs, plate, strainer frame, bucket hoops, parts of at least 5 different loom-like structures, iron-tipped implement [possibly stylus?]) fir (trough, bucket staves, weaving tablets) fir/pine (construction framing) oak (bucket lid, barrel staves, bench seat) yew (bucket staves) In addition, on going through FROM VIKING TO CRUSADER I found artifacts listed that were made of the following kinds of wood. alder (bowls) ash (bucket staves, trough, turned vessels, cradle planks) aspen (part of a Madonna) beech (key, bucket hoops, bedframe, chairs, part of a Madonna, underwater naval blockade construction) birch (ladle, stool, arrow shaft, lathe-turned bucket, chair, saint's head, document box) boxwood (panpipes) elm (bowl) fir (toy horse) ivy or holly (amulet) juniper (head carved on a peg) larch (spoon) lime (Oseberg animal head posts [?], a Madonna) maple (walking stick, turned vessels, spinning top, box lid, parts of a chair) oak (ships, construction timbers of various types, oven rakes, ladder, spade, pitchfork, chests, bed planks, Kunigunde's jewel box, crucifix, cradle runners) osier (bucket hoops) pine (oars, deck planking, skis, door mouldings, furniture planks, bucket staves, runestick, column capital, baptismal font, wall panels, chest) spruce (rune stick, tally stick [Norway spruce]) willow (Slavic treenails, catches for bucket hoops, toy boat, crucifix, carved Virgin) yew (walking stick, Ranvaik's shrine [a box], bucket, rune stick, box mount, cup) Tilia platyphylla [bigleaf linden] (crucifix) Populus tremulus (a "sewn boat") Cornus sanguinea [bloodtwig dogwood] (crucifix shaft) Pinus sylvestris [Scotch pine] (carved furniture plank) Also pursuing the question of wood nomenclature, Michael Fenwick (UDSD007 at DSIBM.OKLADOT.STATE.OK.US) wrote: >In article <2oi41l$qfm at usenet.pa.dec.com>, >haslock at oleum.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock) writes: > >>Also, maple is unknown in England but Sycamore is similar and currently >common. > >> Fiacha > >I think that our North American "sycamore" (a.k.a. sweet >gum?) is not the same as the European "sycamore", based on >discussions with various woodwind makers here and there. >Not, mind you, that I know what European "sycamore" really >is. Sorry. I raided my husband's woodworking bookshelf because I remembered seeing something about English maple. Here's what I found. According to Mike Abbott's GREEN WOODWORK: WORKING WITH WOOD THE NATURAL WAY (Melksham, Wiltshire: Redwood Press Ltd., 1991 [ISBN #0-946819-18-1]), the wood referred to in England as "sycamore" is in fact a species of maple, Acer pseudoplatanus. It has a five-lobed semi-connected maple-style leaf and paired helicopter seeds. He says "the wood is pale cream, similar to that of the ash, but in many other respects it resembles beech.... It is easy to work with hand tools as well as on the lathe, and if worked while still wet tends not to crack when it dries. Having no taste, it is therefore ideal for all kitchenware such as spoons, bowls and rolling-pins.... Sycamore grows in most parts of Britain...." (p. 27) Abbott also lists a "field maple," which he says is a smaller tree than the Acer pseudoplatanus with more dense wood "ideal for spoons or bowls." He doesn't give the Latin name for this tree. He lists the English oak species as Quercus robur; beech as Fagus sylvatica; ash as Fraxinus excelsior; English elm as Ulmus procera; and he uses "birch" to mean silver birch, Betula pendula. A look through WYMAN'S GARDENING ENCYCLOPEDIA reveals a listing for Acer psuedoplatanus, the "sycamore maple." It is naturalized in the US. Another maple native to Europe but now naturalized here is the Norway maple, Acer Platanoides. Other woods mentioned by Abbott are also mentioned in Wyman. Quercus robur ("English Oak") is also naturalized in the US. It is a white oak whose climate zone (5) is narrow but cuts through a wide number of SCA kingdoms including large parts of western East (AEthelmearc, including Cooper's Lake), Midrealm, and Calontir. Fraxinus excelsior is "European ash," found in the Northern Region of the East, Northshield, and (alas, my SCA geography fades in this region) Wyoming. Ulmus procera, "English elm" (is this getting predictable yet?), is also found in Zone 5. Betula pendula (aka Betula alba) is a white-barked birch limited to the far northern reaches of the East, the Middle, An Tir, and parts of the West and Caid. Hope this is helpful. **************************************************************************** Carolyn Priest-Dorman Thora Sharptooth Poughkeepsie, NY Frosted Hills (ci-devant Val Coeur!) priest at vassar.edu East Kingdom (for now....) Gules, three square weaver's tablets in bend Or **************************************************************************** From: tip at lead.aichem.arizona.edu (Tom Perigrin) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Wood and tree names in 16th cent. England Date: 27 Apr 1994 20:37:59 GMT Organization: Department of Chemistry In article <2pjq9s$n5 at zip.eecs.umich.edu>, Daniel K. Jarrell wrote: > Brazil (Brasell), Turkey (Turkie) wood, Fusticke, Sugarcheste, Hardbeame, > Birch (Byrche), Ash (Asshe), Oak (Ooke), Seruis tree, Hulder, > Blackthorne, Beech (Beche), Elder, Aspen (Aspe), and Salow. > Does anyone out there know what > Turkey wood, Fusticke, Sugarcheste, Hardbeam, Serius tree, Hulder, and > salow are known by today. > Is there any context which might help? You should be careful in assigning modern names to the translation of older names for exotics. Many exotics have changed their names over 400 years. For example, the "deal" of today is not the same as "deal" 400 years ago... Deal used to be a specific type of spruce from Scandanavia... however, as that spruce was logged out, deal came to mean any one of the type of trees typically imported from Scandanavia, to wit, "fir or pine". Having said that, let me try to ascribe some guesses. Turkeywood. I couldn't find anything. I might suspect this is a place name. Fusticke - Chlorophora sp... any of a number of tropical trees related to the mulberry that yeild a yellow dye stuff. Sugarcheste - chestnuts come in at least two varieties, horse chestnut (Aesculus sp.) and the true chestnut (Castanea sp.) which is edible (sweet). The wood of the horse chestnut is coarse grained. Hardbeam - I would guess hornbeam (Carpinus sp.), a member of the birch family. A very good wood for many uses. Strong, dense, good fracture resistance. Serius tree - a tree without a sense of humour. Hulder - I would guess Alder (Alnus sp.), members of the birch family. Good turning woood, and the bark is used in dying. Salow - I would guess sallow (Salix sp), a member of the willow family. Thomas Ignatius Perigrinus From: J.N.DEakin at sheffield-hallam.ac.UK (Jim N. Deakin) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Wood and tree names in 16th cent. England Date: 13 May 1994 08:18:59 -0400 Organization: Sheffield Hallam University Greetings, from Niall of Stone Ford, I didn't reply earlier to this, since I read only the Digest form of the Rialto, and almost invariably all queries have been answered before I get chance. But this time I get to help! From Mistress Gwennis' note: > Daniel K. Jarrell(jarrell at engin.umich.edu) wrote: > : Does anyone out there know what > : Turkey wood, Fusticke, Sugarcheste, Hardbeam, Serius tree, Hulder, and > : salow are known by today. > I may be misremembering, but I thought the 'Serius tree' was 'seruis tree' in the original note, and there is a hedgerow tree called 'Service', which is now regarded as very rare. However in a fairly recent book called 'Woodturning Wizardry' it is described as reasonably common, but rarely recognised. I've never noticed it anyway. Master Thomas Peregrinus' note about Sugarcheste is almost certainly correct, I would add that the 'edible chestnut' tree is still called the Sweet Chestnut over here. Yours in serius Niall ......................................................................... From: Jim Deakin, | Sheffield Hallam University | Computer Services, | Humouroids are caused by hardening of the Pond Hill, | attitudes Sheffield S1 1WB | England. | ......................................................................... Email on: JANET : J.N.DEAKIN at uk.ac.shu INTERNET or UUCP : J.N.DEAKIN%shu.ac.uk at nsfnet-relay.ac.uk ......................................................................... From: corliss at hal.PHysics.wayne.EDU (David J. Corliss) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Wood for Scabbards Date: 22 Jun 1994 11:55:18 -0400 Organization: the internet Number one choice: (Hard/Rock/Sugar) Maple (They're all the same thing). (Yes, really. I have some I bought for making harps and psalteries that still has a few tap holes near the edge.) Maple is beautiful: very hard and durable, fairly easy to work (so long as you keep your tools sharp), and has an smooth, fine, even grain. It is not full of acid like oak and polishes beautifully. I think it is fine with just varnish. Put polyurathane on a scabbard and it will last a very long time without being conspicuously modern. The wood is very pale: it is often described as "blond". For a katana,of course, you will need a black enamel. This will not be a problem. If weight is a concern, try to get your hands on some willow. This very strong wood is relatively light, making it one of the favorite woods of the ancient Irish harp makers. .....this has been a public service message from the Middle Kingdom College of Sciences......... From: corliss at hal.PHysics.wayne.EDU (David J. Corliss) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Maple: Hard vs. soft Date: 27 Jun 1994 14:10:59 -0400 Organization: the internet Eyrny of Eadormere writes: > I don't know what maple you get but the maple I'm used to is classified > as soft.... Hard maple (also called rock maple) is wood from Acer Saccarum, the same tree from which maple syrup is derived. _Any_ other maple (Acer) species is known in the lumber trade as soft maple. This is not to say that soft maple is soft compared with almost any wood: it is very hard and durable, only somewhat less so than hard maple. It is certainly hard, strong, and servicable for most purposes for which one uses hardwoods. For soft maple (indeed, _any_ maple) is a hardwood (deciduous), not a softwood (coniferous). It's just not as quite hard as hard maple, hence the name. ......this has been a public service announcement from the Middle Kingdom College of Sciences........ From: kkeeler at unlinfo.unl.edu (kathleen keeler) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Linden Date: 16 May 1995 18:34:40 GMT Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln Hal Ravn asked "What are the species of linden on both sides of the Atlantic? (i.e. are the European and American linden trees the same species?) No. (Although such species exist, its rare for a species to have a a range that includes both continents.) The Illustrated Flora of Britain and Northern Europe M. Blamey & C. Grey-Wilson, Hodder and Stoughton, London 1989 (ISBN 0 340 40170 2 a very nice book) lists 3 species (for its area of interest) _Tilia platyphyllos_ large-leaved lime _T. cordata_ small-leaved lime _T. x vulgaris_ common lime. They list _T.x europaea_ as a synonym for T. vulgaris, and the x implies a hybrid, apparently of the other two lime trees. A named hybrid is usually a common easily found combination: I don't know Tilia well myself. Gray's Manual (east coast US flora) lists 4 species of Tilia native to its region: _T. americana_ basswood or whitewood _T. floridana_ no common name given _T. neglecta_ no common name given _T. heterophylla_ white basswood as well as _T. europaea_ and _T. platyphyllos_ introduced from Europe, spread to rubbish and roadsides and _T. petiolaris_ pendent silver linden, introduced from Eurasia sometimes spreading from cultivation to waste places (Gray's Manual is 1950, corrected 1970, there could be more introduced species, or they could have spread more or ceased to spread in all that time.) [_Tilia_ is my attempt to underline, which tells the printer to put it in italics, which is the proper way to handle foreign words within an English text, which is what the scientific names are since they are in Latin!] The California flora (Munz) lists no _Tilia_ species and the Flora of the Great Plains only _T. americana_. I don't have references for Southern or Eastern Europe, but I don't think the pattern likely to change: two distinct groups of species but classified in the same genus. (I think the biogeography would be that lindens diversified when there was one connected northern continent, Laurasia, and have evolved in isolation since the North Atlantic formed.) Hope that helps. Thanks, I learned a bunch. And I'm very happy for any EFR! (EFR = excuse for research) Agnes deLanvallei, Mag Mor, Calontir kkeeler at unlinfo.unl.edu From: derek.broughton at onlinesys.com (DEREK BROUGHTON) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Linden Date: Sun, 21 May 95 18:49:00 -300 Organization: Online Systems Of Canada ˇ#TO :djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu N djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (dorothy j heydt) wrote: DJ>In article <3par80$7e2 at crcnis3.unl.edu>, DJ>kathleen keeler wrote: DJ>>Hal Ravn asked "What are the species of linden on both sides of the DJ>>Atlantic? (i.e. are the European and American linden trees the same DJ>>species?) DJ>> DJ>>No. (Although such species exist, its rare for a species to have a DJ>>a range that includes both continents.) DJ>That's what I expected. DJ>>The Illustrated Flora of Britain and Northern Europe M. Blamey & C. DJ>>Grey-Wilson, Hodder and Stoughton, London 1989 (ISBN 0 340 40170 2 DJ>>a very nice book) lists 3 species (for its area of interest) DJ>>_Tilia platyphyllos_ large-leaved lime DJ>>_T. cordata_ small-leaved lime DJ>>_T. x vulgaris_ common lime. DJ>So the rumor I'd come across that 'limewood' is linden may likely DJ>be true. I'll have to check when I get a chance at my local DJ>specialty lumber yard. Absolutely. Linden and Lime are completely synonymous, and Basswood is one or more species of Linden. My reference is "Trees of North America and Europe", R. Phillips, Random House, NY, 1978. (Interestingly, the Random House version is Trees of North America, then 'and europe' in small print. The original english edition is Trees of Europe, then 'and North america' in small print!). As Katherine said T.x Vulgaris (also known as T. x Europa) is a hybrid of T cordata and T platyphyllos. Also available in N.A. is T.Oliveri, T.x Euchlora (Crimean Lime), T Petiolaris (Weeping Silver Lime, or Weeping White Linden), T. Tomentosa (Silver Lime). These are all Eurasian in origin and grown in parks & large gardens. DJ>>Gray's Manual (east coast US flora) lists 4 species of Tilia DJ>> native to its region: _T. americana_ basswood or whitewood Coryn llith Rheged | Canton of Wessex Mere mka Derek Broughton | Barony of Ramshaven derek.broughton at onlinesys.com | Principality of Ealdormere | Middle Kingdom From: IMC at vax2.utulsa.EDU (I. Marc Carlson) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Woods (was Leather Armor ...) Date: 25 Oct 1995 14:41:33 -0400 Organization: The Internet > >Actually Diarmuit, Piffle. Ok. First Balderik, now you. I must be wrong, then, so let's see what the right answer is :) Going over to the Complete Dictionary of Wood by Thomas Corkhill, 1980. "Linden, see Lime." "Lime. Tilia vulgaris, T. cordata, T. parvifolia, T. platyphylla. Also called tiinden. Yellowish white with reddish lnge [sic.]. Soft, light, stable, not durable. Fine close grain with faint rays and ripples. Easily wrought. Used for carving, musical instruments, artificial limbs, etc. Specific Gravity .52 Comparative workability 1.75" "Boxwood Buxus sempervirens (H.) Common box. Also called Abassian, European, Turkey and Persian Box. S. Europe and Asia Minor. Very Hard with close even grain and lustrous. Small sizes/ Used for turnery, tools, instruments, engraver's blocks, carving, etc. Specific gravity 1.0 Comparative workability 4. The name Boxwood or Box is applied to many other woods having similar characteristics: Amarillo, Blue gum, Dogwood, Erin, Gardenia, Ibira-nira, Jacaranda, etc. See also Casewood." "Bass 1. the inner bark, especially of the Lime, or Linden, Tree. It is tough and fibrous bast, and is used for weaving into mats. 2. See Basswood." "Basswood Tilia glabra, or T. americana, T. nigra, T. latifolia, T. canadensis, T. heterophylla. USA and Canada. The Lime or Linden tree. Also called American Whitewood. Large sizes. Yellowish or greyish white to pale brown. Light, soft, not strong or durable. Even grain, fine texture, soft, easy to work, shrinks and warps freely. Stains and polishes well, and uses as a substitute for superior hardwoods. Used for panels, plywood, cheap cabinet work, carving, interor joinery, piano keys, containers, excelsior, etc. Inner bark is very fibrous and used for rope making and matting. Specific gravity .45 Comparative workability 2" Well, it seems that Balderik was right and I *did* mean basswood, which means I need to check with the guy who sells me wood and see if I misunderstood him, or if he's confused. "Rowan Tree Pyrus aucuparia. Europe. Also called Mountain Ash, but no relation to Ash. Reddish brown, darker summer wood. Moderately hard heavy, tough and elastic/ Close grain, some beautifully figured, with pith flecks. Discolours easily with glue, and of little commercial value. Small sizes. Used for furniture, tools etc. See Mountain Ash." "Mountain Ash Eucalyptus regnans, E. delgatensis..." "Dogwood 1. Ichthyomethia piscipula or Piscadia picapula. Central America. Yellowish brown, Lustrous. Hard, heavy, very strong. and durable. Roey medium texture. Polishes well. Used for pilings, vehicles, ship-building, etc Specific Gravity .87 Comparative workability 4. 2. Cormus florida. Also called American Boxwood. Pinkish, hard, heavy, very fine grain. Used for turnery, shuttles, inlay, etc. C. Sanguinea. Also called Cornel Very hard and tough, small sizes. Cultivated chiefly for charcoal and explosives. C. Nuttallii. Pacific Dogwood. Similar to above species of Cormus. Specific Gravity .7." "Cornel See also Dogwood, Cornus and Stonewood" "Poplar Populus soo. Willow family, widespread. White to greyish brown, darker streaks, often lustrous. Fairly light and soft. Good abrasive resistance, does not splinter... Specific Gravity .5 Comparative workability 1 Used for turnery, toys, sabots, matches, cooperage... American Poplar, see Aspen, Balsam, and Cottonwood. (Other varieties have a Populus name. Note that Cottonwood is sometimes referred to as American Whitewood." So, let's see if I have this right. Boxwood and Dogwood are very durable *hard*woods, while Basswood is a kind of Lime (or Linden) tree, but is easily confused for at least one form of Poplar. Pfeh. Leather, at least, makes sense. "Mihi Satis Apparet Propter Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn Se Ipsum Appetenda Sapientia" University of Northkeep/Company of St. Jude -- St. Dunstan Northkeepshire, Ansteorra (I. Marc Carlson/IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu) From: rhayes at powerup.com.au (Robin Hayes) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Anvils and smiths Date: 25 Dec 1996 04:58:58 GMT Organization: Power Up In article <19961220164600.LAA08124 at ladder01.news.aol.com>, of 20 Dec 1996 16:47:38 GMT, jhrisoulas at aol.com of jhrisoulas at aol.com says... > >Please let me interject a few words gleaned from a couple of years >experience in this sort of thing: > >In article <59d3t7$280$1 at grissom.powerup.com.au>, rhayes at powerup.com.au >(Robin Hayes) writes: >(on a personal note: where can I obtain a sample of this Ironback >wood????) A brief note on Ironbark... I spoke about size of anvils, and that it was possible to use a smallish anvil. I said Quote There are tricks to using a smaller anvil (i.e.) the lump of iron. The mass is important in order to provide a resistance to allow the under surface to be struck back and work that surface. More mass, or allowing the mass of iron to be mounted on an Ironback stump (a native Australian wood, bloody solid stuff very hard and rigid) to effectively beef up the mass of the anvil can give satisfactory results for smallish objects. Unquote The other day, at a contry markets display place, I was looking at working blacksmith shop with a forge where a 50 lb anvil was set on a large piece of iron bark sunk many feet in the ground. It works as well as the 100 lb anvil at the forge on the other side of the shop. The stump was between 2-3 ft in diameter. The anvil is securely pinned to the stump. You want a timber that will NOT bounce when struck.... The 2-3 ft diameter block is set some feet 3/4/5, how deep a hole do you want, and how big is your stump... in the ground, and the hole compacted. The anvil is pinned to the top, bringing it to working height. If you can get a lump 3 or 4 feet in diameter, and high enough to mount your anvil on while the block rests on a concrete floor, you can almost get the same results, because a block this size is so heavy I cannnot lift it, definitely heavier than a 100 lb anvil on its own... The Good Doctor asked what is this ironbark wood, and where would he get it... Well... Australians have a tradition of wood so hard that it shatters axes, heavy, almost imperviouis to weathering, etc. Thus "Ironbark" is more of a common name, which may apply to several different types of native Australian Woods. Now for some hard facts... I picked up Johnson on Wood [2] (a superb 275 page book with many period references with pictures including pictures of a first century wooden doll and an Egyptian ride on horse AD200 - P212), and of course, it does not recognise the slang Australian term. Encl Brit [1] has a sizeable relevant entry on Ironwood. Briefly, there are many types of this sort of timber, in the US it mentions the most widely distributed as being hop hornbeam, and blue birch. ther are many others. Of course, no refernce to Australian timbers... Back to Johnson [2]... it mentions Ironwood, and gives examples. I am not an expert, but from vague memories, and some searching I believe Australian "Ironwood" is in the Eucalyptus family, some of them being Blackbutt (so hard it cannot be nailed, but must be drilled first), Jarrah, and Karri, quantities of logs of which were exported internationally for bridges, piers and wharves. The classic definition of Iron wood is that it sinks in water, it is so heavy. Consequently, is is so dense, that it will absorb the shock of the hammer blow and not "kick back", adding to the inertial mass of the anvil. You may be lucky... or you may find a suitable timber locally. Little scraps are useless, you want MASS in that block of wood... :-) ~~~~~ Ref: (1) Encl Brit 1961 (my copy) Vol 12 Pg 675 entry on Ironwood. (2) The International Book of Wood - Hugh Johnson 1976/79/80 Mitchell Beazley Publishers Ltd 87-89 Shaftesbury Avenue London ISBN 085533 081 3 Hardbound ISBN 085533 182 8 Paperback Robin -- rhayes at powerup.com.au http://www.powerup.com.au/~rhayes/ The Virtual Fooles Troupe: http://www.powerup.com.au/~rhayes/vfoolshm.htm Subject: Ironbark Date: Fri, 25 Sep 98 05:02:53 MST From: Lawrence James McLean To: markh at risc Hi Mark, I was searching the net trying to find some info about a tree that I choose to grow in my front yard, a Grey Ironbark (Eucalyptus Paniculata) and I came across your page on timber, and I thought that you may be interested in some information regarding the Ironbarks you mentioned. The Ironbarks are a group of Australian Eucalypts that are all characterised by their deeply forrowed and very hard bark. There are many varieties of Eucalypts and the properties of the timbers varies widely between the various types. The Blackbutts, Karri and Jarrah that you also mentioned are not part of the Ironbark family. All of the Eucalypt timbers tend to be heavy and strong, however the Ironbarks are the heaviest and strongest. One of the varieties of the Ironbarks is particularly impressive. The timber of most Ironbarks is heavy and strong but brittle. However one variety; Grey Ironbark, is not brittle. The following table lists the properties of a few timbers including Grey Ironbark: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Timber | Density | Modulus of rupture|Modulus of Elasticity| max crushing strength| Impact value | Hardness | | (Origin) | (Kg/m^3) | (MPa) | (GPa) | (MPa) |Izod value (J)| Janka (kN) | | |Green | Dry | Green | Dry | Green | Dry | Green | Dry |Green | Dry |Green | Dry | |----------------|------|-------|----------|--------|----------|----------|-----------|--------|-------|------|------|------| | Hickory (USA) | | | 76 | 139 | 11 | 15 | 32 | 64 | | | 6.0 | 9.5 | | Douglas Fir | 730 | 510 | 50 | 86 | 9 | 12 | 24 | 47 | | | 1.9 | 2.6 | | Oak (Europe) | | 690 | 59 | 97 | 8 | 10 | 28 | 52 | | | 4.7 | 5.5 | | Teak (Burma) | | 640 | 84 | 106 | 9 | 10 | 43 | 60 | | | 4.1 | 4.5 | | Ebony (Africa)| | 1010 | | 180 | | 18 | | 92 | | | | 14.0 | | Grey Ironbark | 1210 | 1120 | 120 | 181 | 20 | 24 | 60 | 95 | 24 | 27 | 11.0 | 14.0 | | (Australia) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Jarrah (Aust.)| 1170 | 820 | 68 | 112 | 10 | 13 | 36 | 61 | 13 | 10 | 5.7 | 8.5 | | Karri (Aust.) | 1200 | 900 | 73 | 132 | 14 | 19 | 36 | 72 | 21 | 24 | 6.0 | 9.0 | | Blackbutt (Aus| 1100 | 900 | 100 | 144 | 17 | 19 | 48 | 77 | 21 | 22 | 7.3 | 9.1 | ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There are other Ironbarks, although slightly heavier than Grey Ironbark, their mechanical properties are significantly inferior. -- Lawrence J. McLean Phone 61 2 9896 3324 (home) 9 Cosimo Place 61 2 9807 0528 (work) Toongabbie NSW 2146 Australia From: David Friedman Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Woods used in Weaponcrafting Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:33:25 -0700 djheydt at kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote: > Can anyone tell me offhand, or provide a link to a suitable site, > what kinds of woods were used in weaponcrafting in period -- > specifically, Early to High Middle Ages? I know about yew for > bowstaves and linden for shields. Arrowshafts are made of cedar > nowadays; what about in period? I have this vague recollection > about hazel, but perhaps I'm just confabulating. > > What about axe-handles (ash?), sword-grips, and so forth? > > I'm trying to put together a collection of short Exeter-Book-like > riddles whose answers are various weapon- and armor-making > materials. It will be easier to formulate the questions if I > start with the right answers. I'm pretty sure ash is the traditional wood for spears. If you want to go beyond weapons, the one surviving Germanic lyre is made of maple, and its tuning pegs are elm and hazel. -- http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/ Author of _Harald_, a fantasy without magic. Published by Baen, in bookstores now From: Andy Dingley Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Woods used in Weaponcrafting Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 18:52:14 +0100 Organization: Codesmiths, UK On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:33:25 -0700, David Friedman wrote: >If you want to go beyond weapons, the one surviving Germanic lyre is >made of maple, and its tuning pegs are elm and hazel. Have you got any detailed references for that? "Maple" (as we generally know it today, from common US practice) isn't commonly found in Europe and it would be quite surprising for it to be the same timber at the species level. Chances are it's still an Acer, but not the same species (or close-up appearance) at all as what you'd get if you went into a timberyard and asked for "maple". The names for the maple / sycamore / plane species get very intertwined if you compare them across the Atlantic. Pretty much every timber was used for weaponmaking, and they had their very specific uses, right down to tiny hawthorns. A good historical guide to what was available would be to find a text on small woodland forestry and look at the locations and the introduction dates for the various hardwood species. I know that local to me (SW England) I can still find species like lime (linden /basswood) that just wouldn't have been available to Norsemen settling the NE coast. From: David Friedman Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Woods used in Weaponcrafting Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 19:46:42 -0700 Andy Dingley wrote: > On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:33:25 -0700, David Friedman > wrote: > > >If you want to go beyond weapons, the one surviving Germanic lyre is > >made of maple, and its tuning pegs are elm and hazel. > > Have you got any detailed references for that? http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.bodensee-a bc.com/Bodensee/abc/museen/konstanz/archaeolog/leier.htm At home I have the German archaeological magazine that has the preliminary report on the Trossingen Lyre. A more detailed report is supposed to be coming out, but I don't know if it is out yet. > "Maple" (as we > generally know it today, from common US practice) isn't commonly found > in Europe and it would be quite surprising for it to be the same timber > at the species level. Chances are it's still an Acer, but not the same > species (or close-up appearance) at all as what you'd get if you went > into a timberyard and asked for "maple". The names for the maple / > sycamore / plane species get very intertwined if you compare them across > the Atlantic. I'm going by the archaological report, which used a word that my dictionary translates as maple. Whether the translation is correct I don't know. -- http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/ Author of _Harald_, a fantasy without magic. Published by Baen, in bookstores now Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Woods used in Weaponcrafting From: uwe at ohse.de (Uwe Ohse) Organization: private site, duisburg Date: 04 Jul 2006 07:55:55 GMT wrote: >http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.bodensee-a >bc.com/Bodensee/abc/museen/konstanz/archaeolog/leier.htm > >At home I have the German archaeological magazine that has the >preliminary report on the Trossingen Lyre. A more detailed report is >supposed to be coming out, but I don't know if it is out yet. to the best of my knowledge the newest report is in Archäology in Deutschland 3/2004, written by Barbara Theune-Großkopf. >I'm going by the archaological report, which used a word that my >dictionary translates as maple. Whether the translation is correct I >don't know. it is correct. And indeed there have been maples in the german area since ancient times. Regards, Uwe (native german speaker) Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 22:53:39 +0200 From: Christophe Bachmann Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Woods used in Weaponcrafting Uwe Ohse a écrit : > wrote: >> http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.bodensee-a >> bc.com/Bodensee/abc/museen/konstanz/archaeolog/leier.htm >> >> At home I have the German archaeological magazine that has the >> preliminary report on the Trossingen Lyre. A more detailed report is >> supposed to be coming out, but I don't know if it is out yet. > > to the best of my knowledge the newest report is in > Archäology in Deutschland 3/2004, written by Barbara Theune-Großkopf. > > >> I'm going by the archaological report, which used a word that my >> dictionary translates as maple. Whether the translation is correct I >> don't know. > > it is correct. And indeed there have been maples in the german area > since ancient times. > > Regards, Uwe (native german speaker) However this is so-called Norwegian Maple (Acer Platanoides) and not Rack or Sugar Maple (Acer saccharum) which are new world. -- Greetings, Salutations, Guiraud Belissen, Château du Ciel, Drachenwald, Chris CII, Rennes, France From: dicconf at radix.net (Richard Eney) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Woods used in Weaponcrafting Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 06:25:45 -0000 Dorothy J Heydt wrote: >I was just reading yesterday -- in an article on organic >small-scale maple-syrup production in the northeastern US -- that >there really are maples in Europe, but they don't produce a >fraction as much sugar as the North American ones do. Which is >all the article was interested in. Not a word on what kind of >musical instrument the sugar maple would make. It makes nice furniture. Acer saccharum and Acer saccharinum are not that different in wood quality. =Tamar Lindsay From: Charly the Bastard Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Woods used in Weaponcrafting Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 13:05:48 GMT David Friedman wrote: > djheydt at kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote: > > Can anyone tell me offhand, or provide a link to a suitable site, > > what kinds of woods were used in weaponcrafting in period -- > > specifically, Early to High Middle Ages? I know about yew for > > bowstaves and linden for shields. Arrowshafts are made of cedar > > nowadays; what about in period? I have this vague recollection > > about hazel, but perhaps I'm just confabulating. > > > > What about axe-handles (ash?), sword-grips, and so forth? > > > > I'm trying to put together a collection of short Exeter-Book-like > > riddles whose answers are various weapon- and armor-making > > materials. It will be easier to formulate the questions if I > > start with the right answers. > > I'm pretty sure ash is the traditional wood for spears. > > If you want to go beyond weapons, the one surviving Germanic lyre is > made of maple, and its tuning pegs are elm and hazel. > -- > http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/ Not just yew, but the boundary area between the heart and sap wood. The heart was strong in compression and the sap was good in tension. So, the bow was carved with the heart facing the archer and the sap facing the target. It's a matter of engineering. Ash was the traditional wood for spearshafts, being light and very springy, so as to absorb the bending force applied when the spear point engaged the target armor without failing. Hickory was for axe handles, a very tough wood that absorbed the shock impact forces generated in use. Hope this helps... Charly From: "celia" Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Woods used in Weaponcrafting Date: 30 Jun 2006 06:03:33 -0700 David Friedman wrote: > In article , > djheydt at kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote: > > > Can anyone tell me offhand, or provide a link to a suitable site, > > what kinds of woods were used in weaponcrafting in period -- > > specifically, Early to High Middle Ages? I know about yew for > > bowstaves and linden for shields. Arrowshafts are made of cedar > > nowadays; what about in period? I have this vague recollection > > about hazel, but perhaps I'm just confabulating. The favoured Early Medieval wood for shafts was in Old English called 'corntreow' or 'gatetreow', this translates as cornel cherry. As this is from an english text and the cornel cherry is thought to have been a 16th c. introduction the dogwood seems more likely. Cwicbeam,(cwictreow, cwicen) was used as a substitute for yew in the making of longbows. this is known to us as the Rowan or mountain ash. it was also good for tool handles as is ash. Hazel doesn't last well and so isn't much use but it makes good gypsy clothes pegs and all you need is an old tin can, a knife, some nails and a pair of tin snips. Celia From: "Alter S. Reiss" Subject: Re: Woods used in Weaponcrafting Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 18:15:41 +0200 On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 05:43:01 GMT, Dorothy J Heydt wrote: > Can anyone tell me offhand, or provide a link to a suitable site, > what kinds of woods were used in weaponcrafting in period -- > specifically, Early to High Middle Ages? (. . .) > Arrowshafts are made of cedar > nowadays; what about in period? (. . .) I'm about 80% certain that the majority of arrowshafts excavated from the _Mary Rose_ were poplar, and that there were also a few of beech, hazel, and ash. From: Ralph E Lindberg Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Woods used in Weaponcrafting Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 08:04:41 -0700 David Friedman wrote: > Christophe Bachmann wrote: > > However this is so-called Norwegian Maple (Acer Platanoides) and not > > Rack or Sugar Maple (Acer saccharum) which are new world. > > How different is the wood? My recall is that Norway works more like Big Leaf then Rock/Sugar maple From: "Brian M. Scott" Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Woods used in Weaponcrafting Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 02:09:55 -0400 On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 01:52:42 GMT, "Mark S. Harris" wrote: [...] > I believe lime wood was a common material for shields, > although I can't remember the time period. At least pre-Christian through the Völkerwanderung period, and probably later. places a considerable find of lime-wood shields ca. 350 BCE, and it's not likely to be a coincidence that Old Norse 'lime tree' is a poetic term for a shield. Talan Edited by Mark S. Harris wood-msg Page 26 of 26