wood-finishes-msg - 2/1/15 Period and SCA wood finishes. Stains. Applied finishes. NOTE: See also the files: wood-msg, painting-msg, glues-msg, polishing-msg, wood-bending-msg, wood-utensils-msg, woodworking-msg, beeswax-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: flieg at garnet.berkeley.EDU (Flieg Hollander) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Pavilion/tent poles Date: 20 Dec 1994 12:48:01 -0500 Frederick of Holland here -=- Folo said: >>For finishing poles, I would suggest a good paint (not a stain) >>and then linseed oil (boiled; unboiled never dries) and pumice >>rubbed in. Take a look at various paints on the market for >>historical homes: they try to match early American paint colors, >>which are probably going to be the nearest you can get to >>earlier period paints as well (if this is an incorrect assumption, >>I hope someone who knows will post additional information). It >>appears that paint was more commonly used than stains because >>the folks of the time were trying to hide, not accent, the cheap >>woods they often used. As Master Malcom MacPherson (Laurel -- specialty:furniture) reminded us in a recent class, the "cheap wood" was _oak_, and weather-proofing oak is far less necessary than it is for other woods. The most period form of sealing is apparently no sealing at all. That being said, few of us can afford oak pavilion poles, and sealing fir that is going to be out in the weather is only sound practice. I use tung oil, which is a modern concoction, but totally innocuous in that it just looks like the wood has been darkened slightly by age. Boiled linseed oil is good, too. Both of these should be renewed periodically. On the more permanent side, varnishes are period and so are lacquers. Both are getting harder and harder to find, due to the concern over solvents. >>However, personally, I just assume that I'm gonna replace poles >>--gradually, not all at the same time--over the course of a few >>years. Yep. I'm lucky. I have a mill not three miles from here which stocks 1 1/2" rod (thicker than clothes rod) in all the fashionable lengths (up to 15') at a reasonable price per foot ( <$1 ). And they let me pick out the ones with the straightest grain when I tell them I'm using it for a "tent pole". * * * Frederick of Holland, MSCA, OP, etc. *** *** *** flieg at garnet.berkeley.edu _|___|___|_ |===========| (((Flieg Hollander, Chem. Dept., U.C. Berkeley))) From: jklessig at slip.net Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period Wood Stains Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 06:10:20 GMT bronwynmgn at aol.com (Bronwynmgn) wrote: >ua923 at freenet.Victoria.BC.CA (Mark Shier) writes: >> Your best bet for a period wood stain that is food safe and alcohol >> resistant is walnut oil. Theophilus (11C) uses it for oiling bone carvings. >> It is a traditionjal frnch wood finish. >> I am using walnut oil to finish a batch of Sutton Hoo style beakers. >> Wood finishes are a problem for reenactors- there is very little known from >> period. >Are there any period finishes to waterproof the wood somewhat? My lord >and I are looking at making some camp furniture out of oak and would like >to finish it in as period a manner as possible. Would oak need a >waterproof finish, or only softer woods such as pine? I would guess that >one alternative might be beeswax well rubbed in, but it's only a guess. >Bronwyn The walnut oil finish will water proof wood to some extent (depending on how many coats you apply) walnut oil (which should be pure, with aout antioxident additives or preservatives) is a "drying" oil. What this means is that it reacts (slowly) with the oxygen in air to form a polomerized film. Tung oil, and linseed oil are also drying oils, and may work faster. Oak in particular can be a problem, it is a porous wood (red oak is so bad that it will not hold water) To seal it well you have to fill these pores with finish, which takes for ever. As for bees wax, I use it when I am turning goblets or bowls on the lathe. But the method I use for applying it (using the friction caused by the lathe turning to melt the wax into the wood, smells great) will not work for furniture. Chandra From: rnewmyer at epix.net (Robert Newmyer) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period Wood Stains Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 11:30:17 -0400 Organization: R. Newmyer Consulting We have been using Danish oil finishes on our rope bed, trestle table, chairs and pavilion poles. The finish on the trestle table held up well at last PENNSIC. We've used the Danish oil on pine, poplar and alder. Especially liked the "English Oak" finish on our rope bed. Danish oil is another drying oil finish. Does anyone know the ingredients used? I believe Danish oil is based on linseed or tung oil, which had it's origin in a nut found in China (May not be period) BTW, you can buy walnut oil in supermarkets in the salad oil section. Griffith From: j klessig Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period Wood Stains Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 08:53:51 -0700 Robert Newmyer wrote: > We have been using Danish oil finishes on our rope bed, trestle table, > chairs and pavilion poles. The finish on the trestle table held up well > at last PENNSIC. We've used the Danish oil on pine, poplar and alder. > Especially liked the "English Oak" finish on our rope bed. Danish oil is > another drying oil finish. Does anyone know the ingredients used? I > believe Danish oil is based on linseed or tung oil, which had it's origin > in a nut found in China (May not be period) > > BTW, you can buy walnut oil in supermarkets in the salad oil section. I believe modern (like watco) danish oils are a mixture of tung like oils and disolved polymer resins. I would not use walnut oil from the supermarket unless you are sure it has NO preservatives. The preservatives prevent the precise reaction you want for a finish. "organic" or health food stores are more likely to have pure oil. Linseed oil (flax seed) is quite period. Tung oil I do not know From: Dan Bollinger at Clay Critters Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period Wood Stains Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 15:04:03 -0700 Robert Newmyer wrote: > We've used the Danish oil on pine, poplar and alder. > Especially liked the "English Oak" finish on our rope bed. Danish oil is > another drying oil finish. Does anyone know the ingredients used? I > believe Danish oil is based on linseed or tung oil, which had it's origin These types of finishes are half-oil and half-varnish, it has dryers added. Varnishes do appear early, I don't know when. An earlier hard finish is shellac. "French Polishing" is done with shellac and oil mixture. As someone else said, beeswax is very old. Probably into antiquity. An interesting and possible early stain for oak is "fuming." Place the oak in tight container (I use a garbage bag) into which also sits a shallow pan containing ammonia. The ammonia fumes turn the tannic acid in the oak a very warm, rich brown. Ammonia would have been available from urine as bacteria changed it into ammonia. Green Man Dan From: gerekr at aol.com (Gerekr) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period Wood Stains Date: 6 Jun 1997 22:10:38 GMT I've used beeswax mixed with turpentine. It doesn't smell very nice until the turpentine evaporates, but works well. They were using it in the seventeenth century, but I don't know if it was documented earlier than that. I wouldn't use in for food related objects. Meistari Gerekr From: millsbn at mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA (Bruce Mills) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period Wood Stains Date: 7 Jun 1997 20:54:13 -0400 Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Dan Bollinger at Clay Critters wrote: >An interesting and possible early stain for oak is "fuming." Place the >oak in tight container (I use a garbage bag) into which also sits a >shallow pan containing ammonia. The ammonia fumes turn the tannic acid >in the oak a very warm, rich brown. Ammonia would have been available >from urine as bacteria changed it into ammonia. You can also soak rusty iron in vinegar and apply the resulting solution to oak to turn it black; the iron reacts with the tannin, the same process used to make some inks. Akimoya Ealdormere From: "merlyn" Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period Wood Stains Date: 10 Jun 1997 19:31:16 GMT Robert Newmyer wrote: > We have been using Danish oil finishes on our rope bed, trestle table, > chairs and pavilion poles. > BTW, you can buy walnut oil in supermarkets in the salad oil section. > > Griffith > > >ua923 at freenet.Victoria.BC.CA (Mark Shier) writes: > > >> Your best bet for a period wood stain ... > > >is walnut oil. Theophilus (11C) uses it for oiling bone > > >carvings. > > >> Wood finishes are a problem for reenactors- there is very little > > >known from > > >>period. > > > > >Are there any period finishes to waterproof the wood somewhat? > > >Bronwyn > > The walnut oil finish will water proof wood to some extent (depending > > on how many coats you apply) ... > > > > As for bees wax, I use it when I am turning goblets or bowls on the > > lathe. But the method I use for applying it (using the friction caused > > by the lathe turning to melt the wax into the wood, smells great) will > > not work for furniture. > > > > Chandra As a longtime woodworker, including over 20 years as professional carpenter, cabinet maker and general contractor, I have had a lot of reasons to explore period wood finishes. Unfortunately little has survived. Most furniture was simply scraped smooth on completion and put into service. The same is true for early drinking vessels and eating utensils(including trenchers). Waxes were sometimes used on furnishings and utensils for the rich and the nobility, but exact methods of application are virtually unknown. One method commonly supposed to have been used is to "paint" the liquified wax on the object and then scrape off the excess followed by buffing with various types of cloth from coarse to fine. This is extremely tedious and the results are passable. Walnut oil seems to be the only reasonably well documented treatment. Waterproofing is slightly different. While various oils were experimented with, the most common treatment was pitch. It was cheap, plentiful, easy to work with (barring the liklihood of burns) and worked very well. It's primary drawback is that it tends to remain tacky indefinitely and residue rubs off on contact. If you need more information most manufacturers of oil finishes have published material on the history of their products, covering both manufacture and use. Etienne Xavier Bondurant du Blacquemoor "Qvid me anxius sum?" From: ALBAN at delphi.COM Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: waxed wood Date: 5 Jun 1997 23:37:15 -0400 Bronwyn asked: >Are there any period finishes to waterproof the wood somewhat? My >lord and I are looking at making some camp furniture out of oak and >would like to finish it in as period a manner as possible. Would oak >need a waterproof finish, or only softer woods such as pine? I would >guess that one alternative might be beeswax well rubbed in, but it's >only a guess. I've used boiled linseed oil on my tent poles; and the three tables I use to display my wares at Pennsic are also, if I remember correctly, thoroughly coated with linseed oil. The tables have lasted through, umm, about 4 Pennsics, so far, and the tent poles through seven or eight, no problem, and none of the tables or poles have needed to be re- rubbed. Admittedly, they're also not out in the rain: close, but not actually out. Since (again, if I remember correctly) linseed oil is made from flax, and since flax was known in period, I believe linseed oil is also period. Two things to remember: you'll need at least two coats if you're going to use it on untreated wood. And you will notice a faint smell of linseed oil for a long time; my tables still have a faint whiff of it, several years after having it applied. (It's not a bad smell or anything; it's just a smell.) I've heard good things about beeswax-as-waterproofing, but haven't tried it myself. Wax has other uses, too - candles, flux for casting metal printing type, lubrication for a whole mess of things, coating (I think) for vegetable and fruit canning, sealing wine bottles . . . . Be very, very careful, though: when you apply the oil to the wood, look out for splinters. One of the tent poles bit back, I wound up with a couple of inches of splinter in a finger, *poof* infection crept in, and I spent three days in the hospital, on IV antibiotics, thanks to an incredibly huge swelling on that finger. - and all this, despite the fact that I'd applied bandages and over-the-counter antibiotics to the wound. Anyone else have a blooded tent? Alban Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 13:02:19 -0600 From: Sinclair To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Not just leater Put several rusty iron nails >in vinegar for around two weeks. When you brush it on leather you get a nice >grey or black based on how strong the solution is. The color only bleeds >slightly in water. The down side is that this dying method will cause wool >and silk fibers to degenerate faster. > >Noemi The recipe of rusty metal and vinger is also used in woodworking! If you put this solution on wood with a high tannic acid concentration, such as oak, you will also obtain shades of grey to black. The pores will be darker. If you want to make a wood, such as maple, grey, just 'paint' it with tea, let it dry, and then put the solution on it. (This is called Liquid Nightmare, by the way, and if you spray drops around you may learn where the name comes from... Sinclair Subject: Re: Period Woodworking (+Reference) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 21:51:27 -0700 From: Tim Bray/Catherine Keegan To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Colin briefly jumping in: Period sanding techniques: None, because sanding does not appear to have been done in the Middle Ages. The process of dressing wood with a plane yields a very smooth surface (smoother, in fact, than sandpaper will give you), particularly if the plane is very sharp and well-tuned. I have personally inspected a fair amount of woodwork from the 14th to 16th centuries and "chatter-marks," left by a plane that was slightly dull or out of tune, are typically evident, particularly on the "back" sides of an object. The visible surfaces in "front" were most probably finished by scraping with a sharp edge where necessary. This technique is still used today by traditional woodworkers. Sandpaper itself is no earlier than the 19th century. Period finishing techniques: The most common finish was probably none at all. Ordinary objects, such as furniture, that were used on a daily basis would rapidly acquire a "patina" from handling. This handling would also damage other finishes that could have been used, such as wax; a wax finish has surprisingly little resistance to moisture and will wear off very quickly, making it not worth the trouble (and expense, in the MA) to apply. Exceptions: Highly valued objects that were not intended to be handled frequently were finished with the most expensive and therefore desirable material available - paint. To our modern aesthetic, shaped as it is by the Arts & Crafts Movement etc, it seems almost sacrilegious to paint over a beautifully figured oak panel; yet that would have been the first choice of a medieval artisan working in the "high-end" of the market. Remember, these people would have been surrounded by wooden objects, and the "natural" appearance of wood that we prize so highly would have seemed "common" and vulgar to the upper classes. Instead of "finishing," think of "decorating." The ultimate "high-end" finish can perhaps be found in tiny remnants on such objects as the Coronation Throne of England. The original finish, in addition to polychrome paint (including white lead with red lettering), included a gold foil surface on the back that was decorated by punching to create the image of a king (possibly Edward I). At a later but still medieval date, the throne was partially covered over by a sort of lustrous glazing. My references do not tell me what this glazing was made from, but it sounds sort of like coloured varnish. Varnish made from linseed oil was known at least as early as the mid-15th century, and possibly earlier; Cennini mentions how to make it. This was the base for the oil paint invented (some say) by Hubert VanEyck. It was almost certainly used to glaze over paintings on wood panels, and therefore seems likely to have been used on decorative objects as well. During the ReNAYsance (I pronounce it the way Blackadder did), of course, this esthetic underwent considerable change and high-end wooden objects, often inlaid with contrasting colors of wood, were finished with clear varnish. Again, this varnish was based on linseed oil, prepared by a low-temperature cooking process that partially polymerizes the oil. Modern linseed oil will produce a very acceptable imitation finish; do not use it on eating utensils, as it contains toxic metals to improve the curing process. Hope this helps! There is not, alas, a single good reference book available for period woodworking techniques. There are several books that touch on the subject, but none that are comprehensive. Most of the above information is distilled from snippets describing objets d'art in museums, museum catalogs, and archaeological references. There is one reference that may contain more information, but I haven't been able to locate a copy: "Furniture in England, France, and the Netherlands, 1200-1500" by Penelope Eames. If anyone has seen this, let me know what it's like and where you found it! Colin de Bray From: Tim Bray/Catherine Keegan Mon, 31 Aug 1998 22:22:02 -0700 >>* Period finishing techniques (Medieval varnish?!). > >I've spent a fair bit of time searching for primary references to furniture >finishing but have found very little. A few secondary sources discuss it, >but wih the usual warnings about trusting someone else's conclusions. > >In John Gloag's "A Social History of Furniture Design," the author asserts >that medieval furniture was rubbed with beeswax, or a combination of >beeswax and turpentine. The primary decoration and preservative for >furniture was painting, with annual repainting, particularly in the sooty >environment of medieval houses. The practice of staining wood was not >popularized until the 19th century. Hmmm... SOME furniture or objects may have been rubbed with beeswax, but I strongly doubt that it was a common practice, for reasons stated in other posts. Painting, yes, but I haven't seen the references to back up the claim of "annual repainting." The medieval houses that were sooty, i.e. open-hearth hall houses, probably had very little painted decoration in them. Painted walls and ceilings appear to have become much more common after the 14th century, about the time chimneys became common in upper-class dwellings. The medieval wall-paintings that I have seen did not exhibit any obvious signs of having been repeatedly re-applied. Stained wood is mostly a 19th century Arts & Crafts esthetic, although Renaissance woodworkers did stain wood to create contrasting effects, especially for inlays. >In V.J. Taylor's "Period Furniture Projects," the author asserts that >linseed oil for finishing appeared in the early 16th century. Shellac >(also called "spirit varnish" or "lac"), made from the secretions of lac >insects from India and Thailand, was known in the Middle Ages, but did not >appear commonly until the 1650s when it began to be imported in quantity. Actually linseed oil varnish can be reliably assigned to the 15th c. >Spirit Varnish should not be confused with the general term "varnish," >which seems to have various meanings prior to 1600. In the 17th century, >"polish" and "varnish" seem to have been used interchangeably. > >In Cennini's "Il Libro dell' Arte," a 15th century "craftsman's handbook," >he talks extensively about using varnish, but this appears to be in >connection with paintings and frescoes. Unfortunately, he does not provide >a recipe for varnish (at least not in my translation), so it isn't clear >exactly what he's referring to. Though he discusses using both linseed oil >and "varnish" for waterproofing walls, I have not found any evidence for >its use on wooden furniture (except possibly as an undercoat before >painting). Bingo. I though Cennini gave a vague description of the process for "boiling" linseed oil, but maybe I am mistaken. Linseed oil varnish was used to prepare the "ground" and was also used to seal the surface of gesso, which come to think of it should be included in this discussion since it was used to decorate the surfaces of wooden objects from about the 13th c. >In Alberti's 15th century "On the Art of Building in 10 Books," he mentions >preserving wood by smearing it with oil or pitch, and sealing some types of >fir with oil so that it will hold water. He also recommends curing certain >types of wood in sea water. By the way, this is an excellent source to see >what period attitudes were towards different species of wood, and why they >used some types over others. Contrary to popular myth, not everything was >oak. Especially not in Italy! >The earliest primary reference I have found that specifically addresses >applying a finish (as opposed ot a preservative) to wood is Sir Hugh Plat's >1594 book "The Jewel House of Art and Nature," where he recommends using >linseed oil and walnut rinds to finish new wood to match old. I have also >read undocumented claims that iron (nails) in an acid such as vinegar was >used to stain wood to a dull grey. Sir Hugh was probably a nostalgia buff, possibly even a medievalist? >My own conclusion is that if you want something approximating a period >furniture finish, you can: >Leave it raw (probably the most common, but not the mark of "fine furniture"). >Paint it (which I usually can't bring myself to do, even when I should). >Use linseed oil, beeswax, turpentine, or some combination of the three. The first two are certainly period and will give you the most authentic appearance. The last can be used to give you a sort of "antique" look, like perhaps a 15th century piece owned by a 16th century gentleman. ............... >We have something of a problem in the SCA in that we are used to bare wood, (Not painted, at any rate) which in period was rare indeed. But some furniture was not painted. Actually, it's the other way around. Look at MS illuminations, and the backgrounds of paintings; most of the wooden objects are "wood-coloured" i.e. not painted. Paint was expensive and specialized, therefore was applied to highlight the more expensive objects. Bare wood was so common that it was "vulgar," that's why the richer classes painted their stuff! >> I sometimes use linseed/turpentine mix. But to get a good finish requires multiple applications, and works fairly poorly for table tops. Some people don't like the smell, as it redolent. Beeswax is particurly good for turned things. I have not found any period finish that is easy to apply and that holds up well. Most of the formulas I have found are 18/19th centuary. There's a reason for that... Note that beeswax was also very expensive in period, and as it makes a very poor finish, was unlikely to have been widely used on furniture. Colin de Bray From: Tom Rettie Mon, 31 Aug 1998 22:27:47 -0500 At 6:31 PM -0300 8/31/98, Gren Fredbosson wrote: >I'd like to know about the following: >* Period sanding techniques; Good my lord, None that I've found, at least comparable to modern sanding. But a sharp plane and/or a scraper will give you a more period effect. >* Period finishing techniques (Medieval varnish?!). I've spent a fair bit of time searching for primary references to furniture finishing but have found very little. A few secondary sources discuss it, but wih the usual warnings about trusting someone else's conclusions. In John Gloag's "A Social History of Furniture Design," the author asserts that medieval furniture was rubbed with beeswax, or a combination of beeswax and turpentine. The primary decoration and preservative for furniture was painting, with annual repainting, particularly in the sooty environment of medieval houses. The practice of staining wood was not popularized until the 19th century. In V.J. Taylor's "Period Furniture Projects," the author asserts that linseed oil for finishing appeared in the early 16th century. Shellac (also called "spirit varnish" or "lac"), made from the secretions of lac insects from India and Thailand, was known in the Middle Ages, but did not appear commonly until the 1650s when it began to be imported in quantity. Spirit Varnish should not be confused with the general term "varnish," which seems to have various meanings prior to 1600. In the 17th century, "polish" and "varnish" seem to have been used interchangeably. In Cennini's "Il Libro dell' Arte," a 15th century "craftsman's handbook," he talks extensively about using varnish, but this appears to be in connection with paintings and frescoes. Unfortunately, he does not provide a recipe for varnish (at least not in my translation), so it isn't clear exactly what he's referring to. Though he discusses using both linseed oil and "varnish" for waterproofing walls, I have not found any evidence for its use on wooden furniture (except possibly as an undercoat before painting). In Alberti's 15th century "On the Art of Building in 10 Books," he mentions preserving wood by smearing it with oil or pitch, and sealing some types of fir with oil so that it will hold water. He also recommends curing certain types of wood in sea water. By the way, this is an excellent source to see what period attitudes were towards different species of wood, and why they used some types over others. Contrary to popular myth, not everything was oak. The earliest primary reference I have found that specifically addresses applying a finish (as opposed ot a preservative) to wood is Sir Hugh Plat's 1594 book "The Jewel House of Art and Nature," where he recommends using linseed oil and walnut rinds to finish new wood to match old. I have also read undocumented claims that iron (nails) in an acid such as vinegar was used to stain wood to a dull grey. My own conclusion is that if you want something approximating a period furniture finish, you can: Leave it raw (probably the most common, but not the mark of "fine furniture"). Paint it (which I usually can't bring myself to do, even when I should). Use linseed oil, beeswax, turpentine, or some combination of the three. Findlaech mac Alasdair Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 21:59:06 -0400 From: Carol Thomas To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Woodwork question >What sort of woodburning might one find in period? My guess is >that is was more of a "branding" sort of thing rather than what is >modernly considered "wood burning," but I could be wildly wrong. >Can anyone direct me to good sources of period wood >working/decorating/protecting? I didn't keep a reference for this, but I read somewhere that blackwork-style geometric patterns were found burned onto the rafters of one Tudor or Elizabethan house, as decoration. The author believed it had been done with a hot fireplace poker. Maybe an embroiderer who ran out of silk and got really, really bored? Carllein Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 22:44:05 -0400 From: "Peter B. Steiner" To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Woodworking Question > Medieval "varnishing" isn't what we think of varnish today (the hard, shiny > lac-based stuff). Lac comes from the Far East and didn't come into common use > until the Far East trade developed. Medieval "varnish" probably referred to > linseed or other types of oil (walnut?) that will oxidize to a hard finish, > beeswax, or other preparations such as those used by artists to prepare wood > panels for painting. In some references, "varnish" seems to have been used > synonymously with "polish." > Fin Lac resin was known in Period...though as you surmise it was probably not in common use for furniture. Many other resins were known and widely used however....among them Colophony (the sort of pine rosin which violinists apply to their bows), Amber, and Mastic. The latter remains one of the most durable, flexible varnishes known. Mastic is, to this day, the preferred varnish for below-waterline use on wooden boats. It is far superior to both Dammar and the synthetic alternatives for use as an oil-painting varnish. Unfortunately, the bush that produces Mastic grows only on a single island (Chios) in the Mediterranean....and it is now prohibitively expensive. 100g (3.5 ounces) of dry Mastic resin costs $22.50 through the only art-supply house I know of which still carries it. Quality surrenders to the Dollar (Ducat?) once again. -Peter- Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:29:48 EDT From: To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Woodworking Question petersdiner at yahoo.com writes: << Amber, and Mastic. The latter remains one of the most durable, flexible varnishes known. Mastic is, to this day, the preferred varnish for below-waterline use on wooden boats. It is far superior to both Dammar and the synthetic alternatives for use as an oil-painting varnish. Unfortunately, the bush that produces Mastic grows only on a single island (Chios) in the Mediterranean....and it is now prohibitively expensive. 100g (3.5 ounces) of dry Mastic resin costs $22.50 through the only art-supply house I know of which still carries it. Quality surrenders to the Dollar (Ducat?) once again. -Peter- >> Hummmm, for what it's worth, mastic is also used as a seasoning in Middle Eastern cooking, and can be found in small quantities in places that sell that sort of ethnic food. Might be easier to find, if you only wanted a bit to experiment with...... Ldy Diana Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:03:06 -0500 From: Tom Rettie To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Woodworking Question >Lac resin was known in Period...though as you surmise it was probably not >in common use for furniture. Many other resins were known and widely used >however....among them Colophony (the sort of pine rosin which violinists >apply to their >bows), Amber, and Mastic. The latter remains one of the >most durable, flexible varnishes known. Good Peter et al, Thanks for the info. The best source I've found in period on preparation is Cennini's book, but I'm a little baffled by what he means by varnish. He provides a recipe for preparing linseed oil, but clearly in his context varnish is something different. I assume that as a painter, he would be using varnish as a treatment for a painted or gilded surface, while the actual wood panel would be prepared with gesso or something similar. It's possible my copy is abridged, because he says he gives a recipe for varnish, but I can't find it. I think I need to hang out with the painters for a while.... Unfortunately, there's blessed little in the way of period documentation on how furniture surfaces were finished, and very few original surfaces survive. It was not uncommon in cities for the carving and painting of furniture to be done by specialists, so it may be reasonable to assume that the process for painting wooden furniture was similar as for painting on wooden panels, in which case Cennini and others provide some insight. But if you didn't paint it? I did find an Elizabethan fix-it manual that explained how to use linseed oil and walnut rinds to stain new wood to match old wood when doing repairs. Unfortunately, it's in the Folger Library and getting access is really, really difficult. There are also some references to preserving timbers by using oil or pitch (though pitch would be a bit unpleasant for a chair). My working finish is linseed oil and beeswax (I'm not a painter, though I should learn). It's easy to obtain and really simple to apply. I did peruse a copy of Dan Diehl's new book on medieval furniture and saw that he's now advocating using olive oil. Does olive oil harden? I'd think that it would go rancid. Unfortunately, as usual he doesn't document his sources. Anyone ever hear of olive oil used for surfaces outside the kitchen? Fortunately for us late-period types, fabric was a very popular decorating motif -- when in doubt, throw a cloth over it. Fin Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:42:19 -0400 From: "Peter B. Steiner" To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Woodworking Question I suspect that in Period the word "varnish" was used interchangeably with the word "finish", both as a noun and as a verb. (In addition to which there were complications imposed by differing languages, masters attempting to keep trade secrets from one another, difficulty in obtaining some of the ingredients used in particular varnishes, and ambiguity in the meaning of the names of particular ingredients.) The oil painter meant one thing by "varnish", the woodworker originally meant quite another..... The woodworker can make use of some finishes which would damage (or have little effect on) an oil painter's work. (Application of -any sort- of finish or varnish can cause irreversible damage to some types of painting.....a fact driven home by hundreds of destructive "restorations" and "preservations" of paintings which were attempted by 18th and 19th Century curators. Varnish containing oil, wax and/or resin has no legitimate use on paintings done in historical water-based media.) (That statement may or may not be accurate in regards to Acrylics and Alkyd paints......I simply don't know enough about either of those media to offer an opinion.) Oil alone is a good working finish for some furniture. It would never harden to any great degree...but it would protect against moisture; and it would soak deeply enough into porous wood that no residue would be left on the surface. (Obviously as a woodworker you already know these things.....Danish Oil is probably the best contemporary example of this type of finish.) Oil is also employed in traditional woodworking as a lubricant during the application of abrasives (pumic and rottenstone.) The oil remains in the wood as a finish even after the abrasive has been removed. Obviously none of these things (oil penetrating the surface...abrasives changing the completed surface) would be desireable in the process of protecting any painting. Varnish, as the term is applied to oil painting, is not intended to penetrate the surface. For that reason oil painters' varnishes always contain resin dissolved in some volatile compound such as rectified spirits of turpentine or alcohol or some other similar substance which will completely evaporate - leaving only the resin behind. Also, preferably, it should be possible to remove a varnish used on an oil painting without damaging the surface of the paint. This is because all resins, even the very best, yellow over time - and need to be replaced. Shall we complicate matters further? Glair (beaten egg white) can be used to "varnish" some paintings. Resin-based varnishes eventually came to be used on furniture.....and because of their durability(?) or convenience (?) or ease of application (?) we now use them on wood almost to the exclusion of oil-only finishes. The yellowing of the resin, which is such a problem on oil paintings, is often desireable on a resin-varnished wood surface. I've raised a lot more questions than I've answered. Sorry. I'll check my copy of "Il Libro 'Dell Arte" tonight to see if it contains a copy of Cennini's varnish recipe. Something tells me that a full exploration of this subject has a great deal to teach us! This one is going to be fun! :-) -Peter Gwer Rychen- Barony of The Rhyderrich Hael Aethelmearc Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:58:40 -0500 From: Tom Rettie To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Woodworking Question >I have another, related woodworking question: could I create a simple >finish to a wood piece by rubbing the wood with beeswax? I have a >drawing of my device on a wood block, nd I was going to paint it, but I'm >reluctant to slap shiny finish over it all - it seems "shiny and unreal." > Would simple beeswax be acceptable? Good Caro, If you're talking about unpainted wood, then beeswax is probably appropriate. A traditional mixture (though one I've not been able to document to period) is beeswax and mineral spirits (or turpentine). Warm the wax gently until it is soft. REMOVE FROM THE HEAT SOURCE. Add mineral spirits in small quantities until the whole mixture is the consistency of soft butter. Some variations on this also add linseed oil. I did a six-board chest a while back with a pure beeswax finish (applying warm wax with lots and lots of rubbing). It's a nice effect, but the finish will show water spots easily (easily fixed with a little touchup). The mixture with mineral spirits is easier to apply and penetrates better. You can also use turpentine, but I'm told that real turpentine is more likely to contain pine resins that may give you a less pleasant finish. I can give you a relevant quote from Gloag, John. A Social History of Furniture Design, from B.C. 1300 to A.D. 1960. Bonanza Books, New York, 1966. LOC 66-20207. Gloag is a relatively good source on general furniture history, but I take some of his claims with a grain of salt, as he doesn't provide sources for his conclusions. For example on page 22: "When the oak chests and chairs, cupboards and bedsteads illustrated in this book were new, they shone like gold, for they were polished with beeswax, which warmed and deepened their naturally light hue." Now this may well be true, but he doesn't say how he knows that new furniture was finished in beeswax, so you have to make your own judgement. So far I haven't found period references that indicate beeswax, but I'm still looking. If you're looking for a finish to put over a painted surface, you probably don't want beeswax (see the recent discussion on varnishes and resins -- that's more what you're looking for). Fin Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:01:36 EDT From: To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Woodworking Question Another excellent and period finish is linseed oil. IL Danach the Woodcarver Bordermarch Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:00:23 -0400 From: Carol Thomas To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Was it something I said? > There seem to be many people in this group who are knowledgeable about how > wood was worked. Being new, I am wondering where to start regarding wood > staining. Would someone recommend references about stains? > > Ivar Nielsen But I read something today in a new book, _Medieval Furniture_. "Much of the furniture produced during the Middle Ages was ornately painted in bright colors with designs and figures; the concept of a clear finish of the type applied to most furniture today was completely unknown. The beauty of natural wood, however, was appreciated." He goes on to talk about sanding and oiling. So the reason that you didn't have an answer on medieval stains may be that they are mostly modern. He does mention a stain for oak only, saying that it is a period recipe. "Submerge well rusted iron in equal parts water and vinegar. ...iron..better than steel.. In one to two months the vinegar and water solution will absorb...[color]." Filter and test on a scrap. The color varies. When dry, oil it. Carllein From: "Ld. Fergus de Botha" Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Midieval Varnish Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:23:47 -0700 Organization: The University of Arizona > There's also all the various oil finishes, which, if not period, would > produce a softer, satiny, non-polyurethane effect. > I would *guess* that the linseed oil finishes are period, but I don't > know for certain. > -- > Cynthia du Pre Argent Me sainted Papa finished a mussle-loader pistol using muck. He would go out in the garage and rub his hands on the cool engine. He would the go to the garden and stick his fingers deep in the mud. He would ask me to hand him the stock and would spend the next few hours telling stories and rubbing his filthy hands all over that piece of unfinished wood. Sweat, spit, more dirt, beer, blood, whatever he could find he would rub into that stock. After a few weeks of this abuse he took a damp cloth and cleaned it off. The pores of the wood stood out in black and it was the most amazing shade of golden brown I had ever seen. The same color of french toast perfectly cooked and fresh out of the pan. When people asked him what he used he said, "Elbow Grease". Ld. Fergus de Botha House Agni Vajra Barony of Tir Ysgithr Kingdom of Atenveldt "For Odin! For Asgard!" --Cookie Monster, 1973 From: "Ken Koll aka Lord Valdis of Gotland" Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Midieval Varnish Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 01:33:29 -0400 Patriarch wrote: > Stupid question, I know. But I was making a walking stick and I have > yet to ask anyone about this, so I'll ask it here. What did they use in > the middle ages as a sealant/protectant for wood so it wouldn't rot? > I'm thinking the glossy coat of regular modern wood varnish might get me > some scornful gazes. Anybody ever dealt with this? An easy period remedy is linseed oil, peanut oil, lemon oil.....try to think...there are a few more. These can all be bought at Wal Mart. One period method that is easily documented and readily at hand is ear wax, this is from Theophilus On Divers Arts...dont ask me, I just read the book. Linseed oil is also documented in there. Oils are your best bet, they are easily available, inexpensive and on a walking stick you will be doing various applications as it ages, a varnish makes a nasty texture if put on in too many layers over time. Have fun. Lord Valdis of Gotland Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 00:15:43 -0500 From: ddfr at best.com (David Friedman) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Midieval Varnish "Ken Koll aka Lord Valdis of Gotland" wrote: > An easy period remedy is linseed oil, peanut oil, lemon oil.....try to > think...there are a few more. These can all be bought at Wal Mart. One > period method that is easily documented and readily at hand is ear wax, this > is from Theophilus On Divers Arts...dont ask me, I just read the book. > Linseed oil is also documented in there. Oils are your best bet, they are > easily available, inexpensive and on a walking stick you will be doing > various applications as it ages, a varnish makes a nasty texture if put on > in too many layers over time. Have fun. Peanuts come from the new world, and peanut oil, as best I recall, was extracted by George Washington Carver quite a long time after our period. David/Cariadoc From: "Esther Heller" Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Midieval Varnish Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:25:25 -0400 Organization: Eastman Kodak Company Patriarch wrote: >Stupid question, I know. But I was making a walking stick and I have >yet to ask anyone about this, so I'll ask it here. What did they use in >the middle ages as a sealant/protectant for wood so it wouldn't rot? >I'm thinking the glossy coat of regular modern wood varnish might get me >some scornful gazes. Anybody ever dealt with this? > >-Scott It isn't clear to me that they used what we would consider varnish for most of period. First of all, varnish does not keep a walking stick from rotting. If it has dried out since being cut from the tree and you keep it in a reasonably dry place most of the time, it won't rot. The things that rot are items like boats and roof shingles and fenceposts, all of which have in common spending a lot of time wet. Secondly I haven't reread Theophilus recently, but IIRC he only knows about _raw_ linseed oil because he comments on how slow it is to dry. I think Cenini know about boiling down linseed oil so that it dries quicker. Be cautious of modern "boiled" linseed oil, it has poisenous metallic dryer in it instead of being "boiled" (for the perennial how do I finish my goblet thread!) You could use beeswax, but I don't know that they did except for possibly really high-end furniture, the stuff was expensive and in demand for candles. Shellac comes from a bug in India, might have been available in later period. For a period walking stick until sometime in the age of exploration I would smooth it with a card scraper and use no finish. The later folks started playing with finishes, but I don't have any serious documentation before 1700-ish (Moxon, first woodworking book in English, Roubou in French and the Encyclopediasts are same or later dates). I would be curious what documentation you have for anything other than a sapling with the branches lopped off? Stuff like walking sticks weren't heirlooms, they were rough and ready and easily burned when you made another one. Otelia eoh at kodak dot com who has made a Windsor chair (~1750) with Michael Dunbar and various other hand tool woodworking pursuits From: "Esther Heller" Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Midieval Varnish Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:24:37 -0400 Organization: Eastman Kodak Company Chris K. Hepburn wrote: >When did they start using melted amber (gasp choke) as a varnish? > >I seem to recall hearing they melted down quanities of it in the 1800's to >finish furniture. Is this a solely Victorian phenomenon? > >Chris, AB If you really want details check the North American woodworking magazines for the past year or so. The varnish was not _just_ melted amber, but copal ("young" amber), kauri (some ancient gum from down under?) and similar were ingredients in older varnish recipes. There was at least one major article in the past year or so but I don't recall where and don't subscribe to all the magazines. If you are curious the place to start is Fine Woodworking on Finishing (a collection of article reprints from the early years of FWW) or anything by George Frank. Some of the FWW articles point you to the late 18th-early 19th original sources, Frank was the end of the later Victorian traditional training. If you are _really_ curious join the oldtools hand woodworking listserv (FAQ at http://www.mcs.net/~brendler/oldtools/OTFAQ.htm ) and ask. They are at least vaguely aware of the SCA, although most of the people who do the serious study are 100+ years OOP for us. Given the earliest how-to book in English is Moxon circa 1700 (haven't gotten far enough to know if he does finishes, he is the standard source for tools) and a lot more furniture in North America is post 1700 most of the study and interest is OOP. But the tools don't change much from 1700 to post US Civil war, and I think a lot of the technique goes back centuries. The Mastermyr find has instantly recognisable drawknives and a scorp, you can only do certain things with those tools..... and there are some _experts_ on how to use the tools on oldtools. Otelia eoh at kodak dot com Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:28:42 -0500 From: Tom Rettie To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Stains (was Was it something I said?) > There seem to be many people in this group who are knowledgeable > about how wood was worked. Being new, I am wondering where to > start regarding wood staining. Would someone recommend references > about stains? Staining does not appear to have been commonly practiced on wood, but it was on cloth (for hanging, banners, etc.). The trades of Painters and Stainers were allied, and in London they combined in 1502 into the Worshipful Company of Painter-Stainers. The idea of staining wood, esp. to make it appear to be some other type of wood, isn't common in the Middle Ages. When medieval furniture was colored, it was usually painted, either monochrome (all one color) or polychrome (multi-color). For middling-quality furniture, painting may have been used to hide when a mix of different wood types were used. Something like staining appears in the sepia-black ink used for pen and brush work in 16th and 17th centuries, but these are designs, not all-over color. Otherwise, oil finishes appear to have been used (linseed, nut, poppy, etc.). Also beeswax. On some types of wood, oil will have a darkening effect, and will make the grain more pronounced. I commend to you a book by Victor Chinnery called "Oak Furniture, the British Tradition." Don't let the title mislead you, this book includes the most complete scholarly discussions I've found of surface decoration, joinery, wood types, etc., much of it applicable before his primary timeframe of the 16th adn 17th centuries. The notes above are from this book. I have found a recipe in an Elizabethan manual on how to stain new wood so that it will match old wood -- such as when you are fixing a window casing. The recipe uses linseed oil and walnut rinds. Later, Carllein wrote: >"Much of the furniture produced during the Middle Ages was ornately painted >in bright colors with designs and figures; the concept of a clear finish of >the type applied to most furniture today was completely unknown. The >beauty of natural wood, however, was appreciated." He goes on to talk >about sanding and oiling. So the reason that you didn't have an answer on >medieval stains may be that they are mostly modern. Good Carllein, While your conclusion is probably correct, beware of that book as a source. The author makes a lot of unsupported and undocumented claims, and his knowledge of woodworking is, well, less than complete. For example, he makes the claim that "The process of aging and curing wood was unknown...", which is entirely false. There are several period references that discuss how long wood should be seasoned, and surviving contracts that specify that the wood is to be seasoned. It's entirely true that much work was done with unseasoned wood, at least initially, but understanding the seasoning process was vital to building a piece that didn't split or fall apart. Likewise, his discussion of "doweling" seems to completely misunderstand the technique of drawboring (pegging a mortise and tenon joint so that it will stay tight without glue). He also seems to believe that pine and fir are the same thing. Forgive me if I sound particularly critical of this work, but I know that a number of people pointed out technical and historical inaccuracies to the author after the release of his first book, yet they are repeated in the second. You'll find much more accurate and complete information on all of the above in Chinnery's book (which is available through Barnes and Noble, though it isn't cheap). I hope this is of some use to you. Please write me if you have more questions. Fin From: Me at my.desk.com (my name) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Midieval Varnish Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:59:27 GMT Patriarch wrote: >Stupid question, I know. But I was making a walking stick and I have >yet to ask anyone about this, so I'll ask it here. What did they use in >the middle ages as a sealant/protectant for wood so it wouldn't rot? It's not a period method, but will give very good period looking results . . . (mainly promted to share because you wanted some moisture resistance). Scrape your walking stick smooth as possible, like smooth satin. (or sand it to 400 grit, using sandpaper.) Then (here comes the elbow grease part) apply Lin-Speed (r) "oil," which is a mixture of "boiled" linseed oil and varnish. Wipe away *all* traces of dust with a tack rag. Dip two fingers into the Lin-Speed, then start rubbing it into the wood. Spread the liquid as far as you can then begin rubbing it in until your fingers are warm from the friction then dip again and repeat on an ajucent area until the entire walking stick is finished. Set aside and let "dry" for at least a day (and for your fingertips to recover ;). Rub out finish with 000 or 0000 fine steel (finishing) wool. Repet the entire process *at* least* 10 to 15 times or or until satisfied with the depth and look of the finish. I learned this from an old time gunsmith who literally *hated* plastic looking finishes and who did a *lot* of work on *very* expensive antique and antique reproduction firearms. (Some in the $10,000+ price range.) He's departed now so I don't feel bad about sharing his "secret finish." The finish will be water *resistant* but not proof, e.g. water will bead on it but will eventually soak through if left on the surface. To improve the water reisitance, after you've finished your Lin-Speed finish, give it a couple of coats of really rubbed out beeswax. The finish is also not oxygen proof so the color of the wood under the finish will darken and mellow with age very nicely. When finished, the color of the wood will be a couple of shades darker to the amber side and have a wonderful satiny finish that warms to the touch. Note: This works best on dense hardwoods with close grain structure, like walnut. On woods with an open grain, first apply then rub out (with 600 sandpaper or steel finishing wool) a *good* laquer sanding sealer like Behlens. Lin-Speed can be purchased from any *good* sporting goods store or gunsmith. Don't use this on surfaces that will come into contact with food or drink because of accelerants. It's not so differant from a late-period finish using boiled oils, just more water resistant and quicker. As someone else noted, a plain boiled oil finish takes a very long time to polymerize (not dry). Yours in Service to The Kingdom and The Society =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= William of the West Merlands Shire of Cloondara, Kingdom of the West ----------------------- From: "Ellen Anglin" Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Midieval Varnish Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:53:37 -0700 Organization: Verio Chris K. Hepburn wrote: > When did they start using melted amber (gasp choke) as a varnish? > > I seem to recall hearing they melted down quanities of it in the 1800's to > finish furniture. Is this a solely Victorian phenomenon? > > Chris, AB No need to gasp and choke- Lots of amber powder is produced whenever amber is cut, polished and shaped- not to mention the large quantities of grainy - non-gem quality stuff that surrounds much of the good stuff- all this dross is great for incense or for varnishes, etc. By the by- another period substance used in varnish is propolis- it dissolves easily in alcohol, and I know it was one of the components used in the varnish on Stradivarius violins. If anyone wants some hive scrapings, drop me a line- I save some of the goop next time I am scraping equipment if anyone wants to experiment. Ellen Greenhand From: "James Fisher" Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Midieval Varnish Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:26:05 -0700 For what it's worth I thought I'd share my method for getting a Period looking finish to figured woods. Please note that this method produces a high grain contrast and will artificially darken your wood. Take your project and sand by hand with the grain (when possible) to a 320 grit finish. Get yourself a scraper (I use a small putty knife that has been sharpened and left with a pronounced burr) and scrape the entire project smooth. This has the effect of opening the grain and smoothing off the light 320 grit scratches. Keep a medium stone handy to re-raise the burr occaisionally and stroke only the opposite side of the burr. Keep in mind that this process may take HOURS to accomplish and be very careful not to gouge or cut into your project by using the scraper like a chisel or letting it slip sideways while scraping. The next step invovles the use of a light acidic solution and heat. You can use several different types of Iron oxide bearing solutions for this but I have 2 favorite mixtures. The first is plain Ferric Chloride (you can get this at radio shack, sold as board etchant) diluted 4 parts to 1 with water. The second is plain red wine vinegar boiled with steel wool to reduce volume and left in a glass jar for 4-6 weeks. Let me stress at this point that using gloves and safety glasses is a MUST anytime you work with even a mild acid or base solution and that it is also a good idea not to wear clothing you are too attached to. Also boiling vinegar over an open flame is not advised, use a double boiler on a electric stove. You will also need a hairdryer or heat gun. For smaller items you can brush on the solution lightly and heat to desired darkness (be careful NOT to scortch!) or for larger items you can use a dip tank made from PVC pipe sealed at one end with a pipe cap firmly glued on with PVC cement. The idea here is to use VERY light coats and moderate heat to softly darken the wood evenly. Go just a little bit darker than what your looking for and then lightly rinse with w ater and dry. Let it sit overnight in a dry warm place and then lightly sand with 600 grit. Your looking to take off any raised grain lightly. Finish the piece with many light coats of boiled linseed oil. In between coats, let the finish set and rub smooth with steel wool untill you get the desired depth of finish. A similar method was used by early gunsmiths to finish thier gunstocks of figured maple and walnut. They used AquaFortis and a red hot iron then hand rubbed boiled linseed oil for the same effect. Regards, L.D.M. From: caerleon at tfs.net Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Midieval Varnish Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 03:48:48 GMT I recall from a reading of The Artist's handbook of materials and techniques that by the 16th. C there were a wide variety of varnishes and shellacs available. Many of these had vegetable resins like gum arabic and waxes in a solvent carrier. Ternon Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:38:13 +0100 Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: Tom Holt Subject: Re: Midieval Varnish The message from A C contains these words: > Try Tung oil.......repeated layers. Traditional bowyer Jim Hamm's recipe for "old-time" varnish - "Gather the pitch from pine or cedar trees from where the sap oozes out of a damaged area on the trunk... The pitch is dried until hard, then crushed as fine as possible with a mortar and pestle. Place the powder in a glass container and add enough spirit to cover it... In the old days turpentine was used, and since turpentine is distilled from pine sap, it may be the better choice... The mixture is stirred occasionally over a 24 hour period to dissolve the pitch, then strained through an old T-shirt into another glass container. The resulting varnish is a translucent amber color" (Traditional Bowyers' Bible Vol.1, pp289-90. The TBB isn't just for bowyers; there's loads of cool stuff about making 'period' glue and string, working bone, horn, antler, sinew etc) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:20:59 -0500 From: "Pratt, Danette" To: "'sca-arts'" Subject: furniture varnishes http://www.natmus.min.dk/cons/lab/kirkerup/kkrp.pdf This is an address that I thought a few of you out there may be interested. I am not a wood worker but I remember that there was a 'big' discussion of wood varnishes and paint not so long ago. I thought that some of you would be interested in these articles from the National Museum of Denmark. I did not read the articles, so someone will have to review and get back to us! Barbara atte Dragon Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:16:11 -0800 From: Tim Bray To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: furniture varnishes >http://www.natmus.min.dk/cons/lab/kirkerup/kkrp.pdf > >This is an address that I thought a few of you out their may be >interested. Wrong URL - yours points to an article about salt damage in a brick church... The article you referred to is: http://www.natmus.min.dk/cons/furn/varnish/furnvarn.htm >>>> Transparent surface finishes on Danish furniture between 1550 and 1827 Vibe Edinger, Bodil Holstein, Birgitte Larsen Section for furniture restoration, Conservation Department, The National Museum of Denmark <<<<<<<< But I will save you the trouble - only a brief summary is available in English, the actual article is in Danish. Here is the summary of findings: >>>> The main conclusions of the article are: Lacquers were mostly made from linseed oil, oil of turpentine and alcohol. A greater variety of varnish compositions is described in the literature but this is not reflected in our analyses. Wax was seldom used as a surface treatment in Denmark in the 17th and 18th centuries. This is clear in both the written sources and in the results of the analyses. Shellac came into common use around 1800, according to both the written sources and the modern analytical results. <<<<<<<< The finding about wax is interesting, apparently confirming my suspicion, although the objects they studied are mostly out of our time period. Colin Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 12:01:21 -0400 From: rmhowe Subject: Walnut Husk Stain / Stains and Finishes Book Stains and Finishes: Someone on MedEnc or SCA-Arts was discussing using Walnut hulls this week. More books have defected to the Magnus Library this weekend. :) One mentioned to me... How to use Walnut husks for stain: Use a glass or ceramic container, not metal or plastic as some chemicals can react with them. Walnut husks start out green - let them turn brown. Take one quart of household strength ammonia. Take one cup of walnut husks, shredded is probably better. Put husks in ammonia, let set for several days. Add more husks if darker is wanted. Dilute with water if lighter is wanted. Pour off liquid thru a strainer - cloth or filter. Brush on with a synthetic fiber brush and let dry. Top finish to taste. Wax, oil, etc. Ammonia deepens the color and makes it more permanent. Ammonia itself reacts with tannins in wood and produces a range of brown tones. ............. Recommended Book: Classic Finishing Techniques by Sam Allen, Sterling Pub. Co., Inc. NYC, 1994, ISBN 0806905123 Includes bibliographical discussion of stains and stain books back to 1688. Covers French Polishes, Varnishes, Oils, Waxes, Stains, Chemical Stains and Fumed Finishes, Milk Paint preparation, Shellac, Lac, Natural Dye Stains and Mordants, and equipment. Discusses planing, scraping, using natural abrasives such as stones, sharkskin, sanding leathers, various natural abrasives - sand, rottenstone, pumice, glass papers, scouring rushes, rubbers used in french polishing, etc. Basic period covered is mid 1600's to mid 1900's but little exists before that period in the way of books on finishing. Covers a great deal. Discusses probable age of some earlier finishing methods. Earlier periods are not documented well though. Descriptions of methods of preparation and technique are very thorough and well illustrated. Magnus Malleus, OL, Atlantia, Great Dark Horde * Permission to repost within the reenactor community granted on closed subscriber based email lists, but not on newsgroups, especially the Rialto. Subject: Re: [MedEnc] Re: Storing Stuff Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 10:46:12 -0800 (PST) From: coffeegoddess To: MedievalEncampments at egroups.com --- John LaTorre wrote: > By the way, you furniture junkies might be interested in my > latest column: > http://midtown.net/dragonwing/col0011.htm > > which shows plans for a period-styled wooden chest > for storing and seating. Why oil finish? There is a fairly simple way to get a period, waterproof built-up type of finish for wood. Spirit varnish! Not having more than minimal hand tools, I haven't used it on any furniture, but it works great on my longbows! WONDERFUL water protection! Go out and collect some pine sap from the bark of trees. Grind it up very fine and drop it in rubbing alcohol or turpentine (turpentine not period at all!), stir it, and let it dissolve over several days, stirring occassionally. Then strain it through cloth rags (old T-shirt works well). Apply it with scrap cloth, thinly! and allow to dry thoroughly in between coats. Tigs Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 00:34:54 -0600 (CST) From: "Jack C. Thompson" To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Drying agent for linseed oil Since the surface is still tacky after nearly two years I suspect that you used raw linseed oil. That may work alright for a piece of raw wood in furniture, but not as a finish. Raw linseed oil contains linolenic, oleic, and stearic acids which prevent the oil from completely drying out. If you wish to use raw linseed oil leave it out in an open container for a few days/weeks to let the 'foots' drop out. The oil will darken, but it will also dry. This happens as the oil absorbs oxygen from the air allowing the oil to polymerize (dry/harden). What I would suggest is that you remove the tacky film (turpentine or turpentine substitute) and use copal varnish. This is a hard, slightly dark resin. Linseed oil, even if you get it to dry, will continue to darken over time, making the ikon more and more difficult to see, and the solvents required for removing aged linseed oil are quite toxic. Jack >Does anyone know of a drying agent (medieval or renaissance would be >nice) that speeds up the drying time of linseed oil? I have an ikon that >is still tacky after nearly 2 years drying time. >Thanks in advance. > >Scot Jack C. Thompson Thompson Conservation Lab. 7549 N. Fenwick Portland, Oregon 97217 USA Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 16:55:36 -0500 From: rmhowe To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Drying agent for linseed oil Sounds like what you want is called Japan Dryer(s). Essentially they are metallic salts like magnesium that force the drying. You can buy them at any paint store. Usually you add them to the paint ahead of time. I'd ask for directions at the store from someone knowledgeable. Linseed oil comes in more than one form - boiled and unboiled. Perhaps you used the wrong one. One thing about Linseed oil though is that it is a powerful oxidizer, tools coated with it will rust, rags will often self-ignite if left in a lump. A friend almost lost his shed that way. Still it's good stuff for tool handles and easy finishing. Magnus Scot and Domino Eddy wrote: > Does anyone know of a drying agent (medieval or renaissance would be > nice) that speeds up the drying time of linseed oil? I have an ikon that > is still tacky after nearly 2 years drying time. > Thanks in advance. > > Scot To: Norsefolk at yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 22:19:40 -0600 From: jorunn at swbell.net Subject: Re: wood finishing Many of the furniture items in the Oseberg find were painted. I know the chair and the bed were painted. Tomorrow I'll check to see if any of the chests were. Jorunn To: Norsefolk at yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 23:11:48 -0600 From: "N.L. Foust" Subject: RE: wood finishing >Many of the furniture items in the Oseberg find were painted. I know the >chair and the bed were painted. Tomorrow I'll check to see if any of >the chests were. > >Jorunn I have heard this in passing before - any of the pics of wood items of course did not really show any intact color or painting. Does anyone have info on what colors were used and how they were painted, IE: did they color in carved designs, paint designs on flat wood, leave parts unpainted or paint the whole thing?? We have some Viking type furniture items we are going to be working on soon - a little color would be very cool. Mor To: Norsefolk at yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 00:05:00 -0500 From: jamesahowell at juno.com Subject: Re: wood finishing From what I've been able to find, there is evidence of folks painting wood items of the Viking era. The shields on the Gokstad boat were painted black and yellow. There is some painted on designs on one of the tent frames, either from Oseburg or Gokstad-don't remember which right off hand. There are fragements of a shield from Ballateare, Man. Now it was covered with leather first, then gessoed, then painted in a creamy white, red, and black. The history of oil paint,as I recall is traceable back to at least the 1200s, and it apparently originated in Denmark or thereabouts. Generally most of the folks that I know use milk based paint. Many of the monument stones were painted to make the designs stand out more. - Finnr-sorry for the brevity-getting ready for University To: Norsefolk at yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 09:18:05 -0600 From: jorunn at swbell.net Subject: RE: wood finishing This is the English summary of the portion of _Oseberg Fundet_ that deals with painting. There are more details in the description of each item as well but this covers most of it. Jorunn "Painting (pp 233-238) As supplementary to the descriptions of wood-carving and metal-work, a brief accountis given of the few remains of decorative painting occuring in the Oseberg collection. As previously mentioned, colours were often employed to emphasize the carving, e.g. on the frame of Schetelig's sledge (fig 83) black contour linesand rows of black dots, on Gustafson's sledge, brown and red in connection with carved, geometrical surface designs. (fig 168). In later works from Oseberg the centre ornamental part is blackened to increase the effect, and in the objects from Gokstad both two and three colors are employed on the carvings. Colour is constantly used in connection with carved decoration. Independant, painted decorations occur on the bed-boards, ends of the tent supports, and the 'chair'. There is always a smooth surface covered with a light uniform background, and on this is a painted figure in darker colours. Unfortunately, the paintings were in a bad state of preservation when found, the colour was soft and washed out, and there were only small portions in which the drawing of the decoration could be discerned. Neither was it possible to preserve the painting. It could not be treated in a wet state, and inevitably had to be sacrificed when it was necessary to preserve the wood. All efforts were thus concentrated upon securing illustrations at the excavation and afterwards. Chemical analyses were also made of the colours. The yellow-white ground colour on the bed-boards was found to contain iron ochre and a little zinc white. The black lines were of lamp-black or soot. No information is available regarding the medium used ofr the paint. Specimens of the bedboards are depicted in figs. 245 and 246. The ground is yellowish white, the drawings of either black or brown-black lines and in some cases the surface inside the figures is painted a deeper yellow. Along the neck of the animal there are painted locks over the surface in indication of a mane, and in addition there is a row of small triangles along the contour. On the surface, in the midst of the animal's head, there is painted a free orniment, a richly designed cross, fig 245, and animal motif fig. 246. The cross has undoubtedly a paraphylactic purpose, like the drawings on the heads of the Kent supports (Vol.I, p.328). Only three of the heads on the Kent supports bore traces of painting, but of these two were exactly alike. The two different designs are depicted in figs. 247- 248. It has already been mentioned in Vol. I, that one of them bears the figure of three united triangles, the other a combination of three magic signs, a cross, a man's head, and a serpent. In addition, we find rude designs of rectangles, a number of pointed tongues projecting inwards from the edge, a border of false meander, etc. They are all painted in brownish strokes on a light ground. As in the case of the bed-boards immediately preceding, the object of the painting is first and foremost to fill in the work of the wood-carver. Only one object in the Oseberg collection has decorative painting independent of the wood-carving. This is the 'chair' a remarkable object which is described in Vol.I p. 67, and depicted ibid, fig 54. It is shaped like a box with whole sides, all of which are paintedwith ornaments in several colours on a light ground. Along the edges there are geometrical borders, and the entire compartment is filled with close and complicated ornament. All the painting was badly preserved. In order to give and idea of it's character, one side is depicted in fig.249, from a sketch made during the excavation. In spite of the defective state it is possible to distinguish all the animal ornament, with the remarkable smooth heads and long serpent-like bodies, composed with entrelac, the drawing executed with manifold contour lines, series of dots and vigorous oblique stripes. The motifs and design differed considerably from those of the ornament of the wood-carving, and there is thus reason to believe that on the whole the painting belonged to a different artistic circle, in the same way that textile art had its own style and form. This, the only work which we possess, thus gives us a glimpse of decorative painting as a special form of art in Vestfold. The existence of painted decorations is proved, but nothing beyond that." Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 10:06:03 -0600 From: "Schuster, Robert L." Subject: RE: wood finishing From what I've been able to find, there is evidence of folks painting wood items of the Viking era. The shields on the Gokstad boat were painted black and yellow. There is some painted on designs on one of the tent frames, either from Oseburg or Gokstad-don't remember which right off hand. There are fragements of a shield from Ballateare, Man. Now it was covered with leather first, then gessoed, then painted in a creamy white, red, and black. For a little more on the Gokstad shield and its decorations, and a few other shields as well, take a look at http://www.ozemail.com.au/~chrisandpeter/shield/shield.html#Decoration. contained in his footnotes: [6] Red pigments in ancient paints seem to derive from mineral sources i.e.. red ochre (Fe2O3, as on the Jelling figurine: Marxen and Molkte 1981); or cinnabar (HgS, as on the Illerup shield of c.200AD: Forhistoriskmuseet, Moesgard Denmark: pers. obs. 1994). Also on the Jelling figurine were a dark blue paint made by mixing powdered white chalk with burnt organic matter (charcoal?), and a yellow of orpiment (As2O3) in an oil base. as a side note if that page interests you also check out info on the Ninth Century Shields from Tirskom Bog, Latvia at http://www.ozemail.com.au/~chrisandpeter/shield/tirskom.html. no finishing info but some info for those looking for info on reconstructing a period shield. From: Krista Wohlfeil To: "'stefan at florilegium.org'" Subject: amber Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:26:24 -0800 Amber varnish can still be bought today. The best places to find it are in violin repair and materials shops or at high priced artists supply stores. It's expensive, but beautiful, and worth every penny considering the time it takes to make it. I have had a chance to work with it on wood. If you ever seen a well done shellac, think of that, but deeper and less "waxy" looking. The color can be dependant on the type of oil used (typically walnut or linseed, sometimes cut with turpentine, mineral spirits, or olive oil. Soem recipies also talk about usign lavender oil.) and the color grade of amber. It's also harder and more resiliant than shellac. Other resins such as copal and dragon's blood can be used with the amber varnish to enhance the color. This site http://www.mauigateway.com/~donjusko/paint1881.htm has a laundry list of paint and varnish formulas which include several different variations on the amber varnish. The big thing to remember with the processes used in the middle ages and Renaissance periods was that they used heat, something rarely done today with the availability of factory made cold process oil paint. I doubt amber varnish can be made using cold process. Also, if you choose to attempt to make your own amber varnish you need to be extremely careful as many of the materials can be highly volitile when heated. Krista Wohlfeil Kushala of the Highland Korsairs Kingdom of An Tir From: Andy Dingley Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: SCA period paints and pigments for FURNITURE Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 13:31:21 +0000 Organization: Codesmiths, UK On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:40:14 GMT, "minosgallery" wrote: >I don't know what era you are trying to adhere to, but many modern oil >paints are still made in the exact same way as they were 400-500-- years >ago, For artist's paints, and by extension those used for strictly decorative work on fine furniture, that's a fair comment. For larger scale work though, and anything that was painted or oiled as a means of protecting it from the weather (militaria, travelling equipment) then the oil preparation has changed (most of it fairly recently). Rw linseed oil doesn't work. It needs to be "boiled" if it's to cure usefully. There are many procedures for doing this. Gunsmiths (particularly fine English shotguns) use a low temperature slow boiling of the oil alone. This gives a very poor drying oil, so the application process is one of many (many !) thin coats and drying between them. Most boiling though consists of a couple of hours high heat, with some metal salt added to the pot (a siccative). The expert on this is Bill Knight, a US chemist and black powder shooter - he has a very good booklet on the subject, which you can find through the US shooting circuit. Historically, the metal of choice was lead. This works really well - it's particularly good at curing in a damp climate and it makes good oilcloth for covering luggage. Manganese (from umber pigments) was also used. This gives an oil with different behaviour - needs a dry atmosphere to cure. One also expands with moisture whilst the other contracts, so the best oils used a mixture of both siccatives to avoid movement cracking over time. The quantity of lead is small - about 1/4% to 1/2%. Compared to lead paints, where lead was a piment (20% - 30%) this is a tiny amount. Modern boiled linseed oils are fairly commonplace in hardware stores, but they have two process differences from the old recipes. "Boiling" is now just a process of warming the oil slightly to make it less viscous and stirring in a pre-cooked chemical additive. These "Japan driers" began in the Georgian period - cabinetmaker's workshops were now urban and boiling up the drier mixtures is a long and very smelly process. Although cabinetmakers would still mix their own oils, they'd buy in the driers. The metal has been replaced by cobalt - or cobalt and manganese. These are nowhere near as good as lead or lead-manganese driers, but they do avoid the toxicity hazard of lead. Of course, in recent years we've become much more concerned about cobalt ! If you care about oil recipes and authenticity (I can bore for hours on the subject) then there's much to be said for making your own formulations from raw linseed. An easier route might be the range of "Tried and True" varnishes and oils, available from Lee Valley http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?SID=&ccurrency=2&page=45105&category=1,190,42942 "Paint" is an 18th century invention (I'd date it from Pontypool japan). Recipe and some biblio suggestions are at: http://paranoia-towers.com/alchemy/pontypool.htm Before this date there were artist's paints (decorative, varied, and not hard wearing) and also oil and varnish finishes for exterior use. There just wasn't anything around like the modern paint that was stored ready-made and ready-for-use in a vessel, was hard-wearing or waterproof, and was also opaque or colourful. - you couldn't even get two out of three. >. The only thing you don't find is blues from lapiz lazulis Lapis is certainly around - although the price is amusing. Given its period rarity though, I don't think it's unreasonable to use it for a detail like a Marian cloak on a reliquary. Maybe not for a reproduction of the Duc de Berry though ! http://humanities.uchicago.edu/images/heures/september.jpg From: Andy Dingley Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: SCA period paints and pigments for FURNITURE Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 00:18:39 +0100 Organization: Codesmiths, UK PS - If you care about this stuff, Marianne Webb's Lacquer book http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0750644125/codesmiths http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0750644125/codesmiths-20 is well worth it - mainly Eastern, but very good coverage of Western practice since the mid-17th too. From: Andy Dingley Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: SCA period paints and pigments for FURNITURE Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 20:42:50 +0100 Organization: Codesmiths, UK On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 08:01:20 GMT, Zebee Johnstone wrote: >What's the difference in the end result from say an indoor clear satin >varnish? Depends on what your "varnish" contains. If it's a modern store-bought varnish, chances are that it's chock full of polyurethane resins. Any half decent woodworker can spot this from across a room. Poly varnishes all have a "plastic" look to them, even the good ones. For SCA-period work, any sort of varnish is inappropriate, and pretty crassly so. I'm continually surprised by some of the web sites out there on SCA-style furniture where someone has gone to a lot of trouble over researching styles and details, then made a complete bollocks of the end result by using an entirely inappropriate finish (or even worse, dark blue paint !) OTOH, poly varnishes do have hard-wearing and water-resistant qualities. I admit that I do use the gel ones - so long as it's no more than two coats, then the effect isn't too obvious: http://codesmiths.com/shed/furniture/gothic_chair.htm If you're doing any sort of 17th century or earlier woodworking, look into oil finishes. Commercial finishing oils are quick and easy to use, and they give a _much_ nicer effect than any varnish. If you want shiny, use shellac (www.shellac.net). 17th & 18th century spirit varnishes are possible to recreate, but they're a real swine to work with. They're very bad-tempered things, they really need to be made fresh shortly before use, they're finicky about application temperature and they're highly skill dependent. From: Andy Dingley Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: SCA period paints and pigments for FURNITURE Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 23:28:52 +0100 Organization: Codesmiths, UK On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 20:16:07 -0000, herveus at radix.net (Michael Houghton) wrote: >>If you want shiny, use shellac (www.shellac.net). > >When did shellac start being used as a wood finish? Now there's a question ! Shellac is very old (unknown date) in the middle East and India. It's rare in the far East, as urushiol (a plant product) was used instead (the classic Chinese or Japanese lacquers). In the West, it basically dates from the beginnings of trade with the East. This is itself a vague date, so its introduction seems to have been gradual rather than sudden. At first, shellac was used as a dyestuff rather than as a resin - there's a 19th century reference that claims it was imported into Spain in 1220. Shellac certainly wasn't widespread in the West at this time though, even if it had appeared in rare cases. The usual finishes would be spirit varnishes (plant resins in alcohol) or oil varnishes (plant resins in essential plant oils, such as oil of spike or turpentine). The first resins were probably amber (Northern Europe), or mastic (Mediterranean). Gum benjamin was used since Biblical times and there was also a trade in Moroccan sandarac or copal and anime from the Gulf area. Zanzibar also supplied dragon's blood, a red dyestuff from the rattan palm (I still use this stuff). The real beginnings of shellac as a resin for finishes began at much the same time as Eastern lacquer objects started to appear in the West. Urushiol resin doesn't store and can't be applied in the Western climate, so even today it's effectively unavailable. Finished objects were traded though. By the mid 17th, shellac was firmly established. The first mass-printed textbooks on wood finishing appear around this date and treat it as an established product. Stalker and Parker's 1688 "Treatise on Japanning and Varnishing" is perhaps the best known. The idea of "japanning", meaning "An opaque paint for wood, distinct from oils or spirit varnishes, and used to emulate the imported lacquer ware from Japan (sic)" also dates from this period. By the mid-18th century, japanning had spread to leather and papier mache. Leather bottles had long been finished with black tar for waterproofing, but that was applied hot. Japanning didn't work on metals though, and it wasn't until the 1780's that a usable stove-enamelled black japan for metals (the newly fashionable tinned iron) was developed (Pontypool japan). >How was it applied? Brush. The use of "French Polishing" and a rubber (cloth pad) is much later - mid 18th century, around the French court. >Modern shellac is dissolved in alcohol. When did alcohol start >being produced as an industrial chemical Ancient, certainly Roman. Usually described as "spirits of wine", and basically similar to a toxic brandy. The earliest reliable ref is in Aristotle. Early distillation wasn't drinkable - the difference between ethanol and methanol wasn't appreciated, or if it was, they appreciated the toxic effect but not how to avoid it ! Roman-era (around 100AD) there seems to have been use of industrial distilled alcohol and there's some possibility that by 300-400AD the Romano-British culture was distilling mead for drinking. In the early medieval period, maybe 900AD, distillation seems to have begun again with alchemists and herbalists, probably as an import from Arab cultures. By 1644 (an infamous year), a Scottish parliament taxes whisky ! From: Andy Dingley Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: SCA period paints and pigments for FURNITURE Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 20:46:29 +0100 Organization: Codesmiths, UK On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 07:11:31 GMT, "Ishka Bibble" wrote: >It seems that when linseed oil fully cures Linseed oil will never _fully_ cure. A highly boiled oil will cure about 80% in a month or two (depending on conditions), then another 10% over several years. Around 10% of it just never cures. This is a good thing in its way, for it remains flexible, especially on oilcloths. One of your big problems with linseed oil under heavy wear is with adhesion. It's quite easy (especially on oilcloth) to produce a coating that's stronger than it is sticky - the stuff can start to delaminate and peel off. If you really care about good surface wear, use tung oil as a base instead of linseed and look at Danish oil recipes (oil + varnish). From: Andy Dingley Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: SCA period paints and pigments for FURNITURE Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:31:06 +0100 Organization: Codesmiths, UK On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:55:11 -0000, herveus at radix.net (Michael Houghton) wrote: >Urushiol? I'm not familiar with that sense of the word. The sense I >*am* familiar with is "what makes poison ivy so special". Yes, they're related. Contact dermatitis is a problem with lacquerwork. >Can you give any references to help educate us? Either the Marianne Webb book, or the refs down the bottom of this page: http://paranoia-towers.com/alchemy/pontypool.htm Those are _the_ classic 17th & 18th century source texts for wood finishing. There's also odd stuff in alchemical literature - shellac also make a useful glue (still used today on fountain pens) and general purpose sealer for all sorts of hermetic uses. From the late 18th century onwards we see a plethora of cabinetmaker's and varnish-maker's recipe books, particularly the beginnings of them in America. If you check Dover press' catalogue, they offer several of them as reprints. From the arrival of shellac to the invention of coal tar chemistry there was little real innovation in everyday woodworking finishes (asphaltum enamel japans and the technique of french polishing being the major ones) and so the recipes (if not the texts) remain fairly consistent. The 1220 ref for shellac comes from Merrifield's 1849 "Original Treatises on the Art of Painting", but I don't have a copy of that to hand (there's a Dover reprint) Damn good book, but more useful for painters than cabinetmakers, so I don't have my own copy. Again, Bill Knight's pamphlet "Staining and Finishing for Muzzleloading Gun Builders" is an excellent piece of research on the chemistry of oil finishing. >Again, references, please. If you're that fussy over history, then get the Marianne Webb book, despite its cost. I've a longer review of it on the Amazon UK site. >I'm not convinced that shellac resin, as a wood finish, is a period >phenomenon. What is "period" though ? When are where are we talking ? >I'd really like to see references that support the vague >claims made here. I'd like to employ a typist and get 48 hours in a day. From: Andy Dingley Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: SCA period paints and pigments for FURNITURE Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 01:35:27 +0100 Organization: Codesmiths, UK On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:37:38 -0000, herveus at radix.net (Michael Houghton) wrote: >You confidently state (or appear to) that shellac was used as a finish >on wood in period (where that is taken to mean "before 1600"). No, I do not wish to be misrepresented as saying that shellac was used as a commonplace wood finish in the 16th century. Into the 17th century, furniture was unfinished. In an affluent house (i.e. one with surplus servants), for the last century or so of this, then it may have been polished in use with a beeswax polish. The notion of "wood finishes" just didn't really occur until the 18th century. Dates are (as always) vague and there could easily be 200 years difference between the fashion in the London court and a provincial town, or a Welsh farmhouse. The Welsh borders are well known for having still been producing clamp-front oak chests (a particular interest of mine) into the 16th century, to a pattern that's generally thought of as 13th century. Before this period, timber was generally bare and was only finished for one of two reasons; weather resistance for exterior use, or artistic endeavour. Weather resistance was obtained by wrapping in leather or oilcloth, tarring, applying oil finishes or applying spirit varnishes. Shellac isn't a particularly good product here, even today, and there's no evidence for its use. Artistic endeavours are another matter. Shellac was in rare use as a dyestuff for as long as there was a trade with the East Indies. The 1220 ref in Merrifield doesn't seem unreasonable - after all, we were importing lapis lazuli as a pigment from Afghanistan long before this. Where small caskets or reliquaries were decorated, then a significant number of them were protected with shellac, and from an early period. Painting was done with egg termpera over gesso and this just doesn't stand up to handling without some further protection. It was also used as an adhesive and sealer over inlay work, such as ivory or abalone inlay. It's rare to find such pieces because this was the very highest non-goldsmithing craftsmanship of the period and there are simply few pieces at this level. The use of overall paint or varnish decoration on large pieces of furniture was first popularised in Venice (then later throughout Italy). There are a number of 13th century references to painted or varnished cassone, often dowry cassone which were deliberately impressive as part of the dynastic shenanigans of marriage. The definition of varnish isn't always clear, but it seems to have been a spirit varnish based on gum benjamin or mastic, both traded around the Mediterranean. At some time, shellac began to be used as well. JAIC 31:2 (1992) describes the use of infrared spectroscopy to identify a shellac coating on a 16th century cassone. http://aic.stanford.edu/jaic/articles/jaic31-02-006.html This is also the first situation where we begin to find "varnisher" as a distinct trade, separate from both carpenter and artist. JAIC also organised the well-known "Painted Wood: History and Conservation" conference of 1994. The proceedings are hard to find (certainly in the UK - a US university library should have no trouble) but worth digging out. I wasn't a woodworker back then, although I was actually in the adjoining state at the time and nowadays you couldn't keep me away from such an event. As to other references, then you've had most of the good ones. Marianne Webb and Mary Merrifield are pretty much essential. Stalker and Parker (which is unreadable) and Dossie or Watin will give you the techniques, although they're post-period and not intended as a historical survey. Some other period handbooks that are easily available as reprints are Cennini http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/048620054X/codesmiths and Theophilus http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0486237842/codesmiths There's another from 1550, "Secrets of the Arts" by an Italian named Alexis of Piedmonte, although I've only read extracts of this, describing spirit varnishes. Although they're not as well known as S&P et al. there are also a number of 17thC Italian finihsing handbooks (for some reason, mainly authored by priests). You may also find some useful information through looking at violin maker's varnish and finish recipes - but I've not looked. Another (rather obvious) consumer of shellac is sealing wax. Woods C., ŒThe Nature and Treatment of Wax and Shellac Seals‚, Journal of the Society of Archivists, 15 (1994) discusses the various formulations, and the period when shellac started to be added to the previous beeswax recipes. In summary, shellac was known to artists from very early on, was initially used as a dyestuff rather than a coating, and if it's little used as a finish for furniture, then that's more to do with furniture being left unfinished than it is with choice of materials. The "period of widespread introduction" would seem to be around 1550 to 1650, when it moves from being a rarity on highly decorated pieces to being a substance that's described in the standard texts of the day. From: renscribe at aol.com (Maitresse Yvianne) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Date: 31 Mar 2004 15:41:04 GMT Subject: Re: SCA period paints and pigments for FURNITURE >Let me put it more clearly: have you seen specific references to the >use of shellac dissolved in alcohol as a wood finish that date its use >to prior to 1600? If so, please tell us where you found that. I'm not a woodworker, but as a scribe I work with period materials all the time. I may have run across some info that will aid those trying to answer this question. There are numerous recipes for varnishes in Mary P. Merrifield's _Medieval and Renaissance Treatises on the Arts of Painting_ In my hasty research to see if there was an easy answer to this question (wishful thinking... there never is an easy answer if it involves research) I found several references that may prove helpful. The ones below came from 16th century sources. One is a varnish for picture frames made from pine resin and wine. Several others for use on any wooden object recommend benzoin and wine. The index for the book, while helpful is not all inclusive. I have no doubt there are other recipes in the book that would be interesting to woodworkers. Yvianne de Castel d'Avignon Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 07:26:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Pat Subject: [Sca-cooks] Linseed Oil To: SCA Cooks From childhood memories of Daddy cleaning his brushes, I think it stinks and taste bad, but from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Linseed oil is a yellowish drying oil derived from the dried ripe seeds of the flax plant (Linum usitatissimum, Linaceae). It is obtained by pressing, followed by an optional stage of solvent extraction. Cold-pressed oil obtained without solvent extraction is marketed as flaxseed oil. It is suitable for human consumption (though not recommended for cooking) and is used as a nutritional supplement which is high in omega-3 fatty acids, especially alpha linolenic acid, and relatively low in omega-6 fatty acids, allowing it to be used to lower the ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 oils in the diet, which may have health benefits. Boiled linseed oil was used as a paint binder or as a wood finish on its own. Heating the oil makes it polymerize or oxidize more readily. However, today, metallic dryers are used instead of heat. The use of metallic dryers makes boiled linseed oil inedible. Lady Anne du Bosc known as Mordonna the Cook Shire of Thorngill, Meridies Mundanely, Pat Griffin of Millbrook, AL Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 13:54:00 +1000 From: Del Subject: Re: [Lochac] beeswax as a finish To: The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list <<< Oh! I imagine that that is probably period. Do you have a period description of this? Do you mix the beeswax with a varnish or something? Or just take a piece and start rubbing it into the wood item? >>> I mix the beeswax: 4 parts wax, 9 parts oil. I try to use a natural vegetable oil such as grapeseed oil but for external applications I can understand those that prefer a mineral oil. I add some rosemary oil, a dash or two. Others use turpentine, I don't use it or recommend it. In warmer climates you may want to use more wax, in colder climates you want to use less wax. That's really just for ease of application. This is applied to the boat using about 1 part wax mixture to 10 parts elbow grease. :) <<< For your boat, are you trying to maintain period methods? Or do you prefer the finish or application procedure better than using a modern, probably synthetic finish/protector? >>> A bit of each. I prefer to use period methods when I can, and when it makes sense to do so. It doesn't make sense to use period methods to install any electronics, although it's obvious where past owners have tried (mutter mutter ...). I don't like using modern synthetic finishes because they sit on top of the surface of the wood and don't penetrate it or enhance the wood in any way. After a year or two in the sun they crack and start peeling, at which point you sand them off and start again. Alternatively you keep painting and painting and hope for the best. If you use a wax/oil finish you never have to sand it off, you just put more over the top. Plus I prefer the look. -- Del Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 08:31:04 +1100 From: Aylwen Gardiner-Garden To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list" Subject: Re: [Lochac] beeswax finishing of a chair Hi Stefan I didn't think of using period finishes - I have a bottle of Feed'n'Wax from Howard Products that I really like using on our wooden furniture. Its a mix of beeswax, carnauba wax and orange oil and doesn't contain any colour, linseed oil or silicon. Aylwen ======================= On 30 December 2013 08:22, Stefan li Rous wrote: Aylwen said: <<< Lynlee was most generous and brought the chair back on her return to Cooma. I've given it a coat of beeswax polish and it's looking a lot happier :) >>> Did you just rub the beeswax in to the wood? Heat the beeswax up a bit first? Mix it with something else? I've used modern waxes and finishes, but not likely period ones. Thanks, Stefan Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 17:16:26 +1100 From: Alonya Cullinan To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list" Subject: Re: [Lochac] beeswax finishing of a chair I use 1/3 beeswax - 2/3 olive oil. Put in a jar and melt together (beware the jar will be hot). Leave to set. When set, use a cloth to rub mixture on the dry wood. The friction will melt the oil and wax, and will soak into the wood. Reapply as required. Note, this mix (or a variant) is used in the London armoury and can be used on leather, wood, fabric, metal and your hands. I use it to add oils back into wool when spinning to add a level of water resistance for scoured wool. Juliana Edited by Mark S. Harris wood-finishes-msg Page 41 of 41