soapmaking-msg - 2/3/08 Soap making. Period and modern techniques. NOTE: See also the files: soap-msg, Soapmakng-CMA-art, Lye-Soap-art, bathing-msg, Roman-hygiene-msg, Tubd-a-Scrubd-art, Man-d-Mujeres-art, p-hygiene-msg, Perfumes-bib, perfumes-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: ac508 at dayton.wright.EDU (Beverly Roden) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Soapmaking Resource Date: 22 Mar 1994 06:08:37 -0500 Good Gentles in search of Cleanliness: Sorry I am that I missed the original thread, but if you wish a resource person to learn more about soapmaking (and other related herb-crafts such as hand creams), write to: Mistress Ilyana/Catherine Oyler - 1467 Hunters Ln, Radcliffe, KY 40160 Mistress Alexis MacAlister Beverly Roden Mistress of Arts of the Midrealm Mistress of My Two Dogs From: ag60046004 at aol.com (Ag60046004) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Rosewater Date: 13 Mar 1997 12:01:35 GMT Greetings, Rayne! While I don't have a period recipe for rosewater, I've found a non-measured recipe for it in "The Complete Soapmaker", a book by Norma Coney (Sterling Publishing Co., NY, published 1996). On page 62, it reads as follows: "Method for Making Rose Water "To prepare rose water, first gather fresh rose blossoms; do this during the morning, after the dew [h]as evaporated. Place the petals in a glass, stainless steel, or enamel saucepan and cover them with distilled water. Weigh the floating petals down with a heat-resistant glass dish." "Pleace the pan over low heat and allow the pot to release steam for at least an hour. You should begin to see drops of rose oil floating on the surface of the water. Do not allow the water to boil." "When the water has taken on a rosy hue, feels thick and soft, and shows evidence of rose oil on its surface, strain the liquid through a tea strainer, using your fingers to press all the liquid from the petals. Store in refrigerator. (Note that rose water may be used as a skin toner; apply to the face with a cotton ball)." Further on the same page, the author adds, "(Freshly prepared rose water made from red roses will do a good job of coloring [the] soap, so you may wish to leave out the extra dye.)" Last note: If you or any other reader of this post is interested in soapmaking, I *highly* recommend the book listed near the beginning of this post. Very practical, thourough, explanatory, and great illustrations & pictures! Lists of bibliography and suppliers are good, too. The only drawback is that you get great, inspirational photos, and no scent to accompany the pictures. :-( Oh, darn: guess I'll just have to experiment... :-) Hope this information helps! In Service, Anneliese Grossmund Barony of Mag Mor, Kingdom of Calontir From: Philip & Susan Troy Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 21:48:15 -0400 Subject: Re: SC - Cheese recipes Kerridwen wrote: > Not quite cooks related, but does anyone have a source for period soap > recipes? I know there's a soap recipe in Thomas Dawson's "The Second Part of 'The Good Huswifes Jewell' "... G. Tacitus Adamantius From: nweders at mail.utexas.edu (ND Wederstrandt) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 08:06:26 -0500 (CDT) Subject: SC - Soap Just taking the Good Huswife's Jewel back to the library so I have it with me: To make good sope. First you must take half a strike of (asshen?) ashes, and a quart of Lime, then you must mingle both these together, and then must fill a pan full of water and seeth them well, so done, you must take four pound of beastes tallow, and put it into the Lye, and seeth them togther until it be hard. Clare R. St. John From: "Sharon L. Harrett" To: Mark Harris Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 09:41:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: SC - soap and cheese info source I have not yet found a period recipe for basic soap, but there are two "milled soap" recipes in "Delights for Ladies, Sir Hugh Plat,1609" chapter on Sweet powders and ointments. It is in Cariadoc's collection. Ceridwen From: OElaineO at aol.com Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 10:12:30 -0400 (EDT) To: markh at risc.sps.mot.com Subject: craft link Free recipes and directions for making bar soap located at http://members.aol.com/oelaineo/soapmaking.html From: Library Staff Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Gifts - any ideas? Date: 24 Jun 1997 19:14:07 GMT Organization: Bethany Public Library > Our little group seems to have run out of ideas for gifts for > royals (well, we had LOTS of good ideas, but they all seem to > have occurred to other people has well!). > > Any ideas? From the July/August Issue of Family Life magazine: Soaps with "surprises" in them (simple enough for a children's craft w/ adult supervision). (edited for relevance and to save bandwidth) Ingredients: 1 bar clear, unscented glycerine soap Beads, seashells, glitter, plastic confetti in shapes, other small "surprises" and found objects. Molds or mini loaf pans Essential oils (lavender, rosemary and thyme are nice) Directions 1. Put one bar of glycerine soap in a bowl and zap in the microwave for 60 seconds, or melt it in a double boiler (10 to 15 minutes). When done, pour about 1/4 inch of melted soap into mold or mini bread pan. Let harden slightly (3-5 minutes). 2. Scatter small toys or other found objects face down on top of the hardened soap in the mold. Reheat the remaining soap. Add one drop of the essential oil, and mix with a fork. Pour a second, thicker layer on top, sealing the prizes inside. Let harden about 30 minutes. When done, have an adult run a sharp knife around the edges and (may have to run the mold under hot water to loosen) then let the soap maker smack the pan facedown against the counter. The soap will pop out. It looks fine like this, but can also be cut into small, chunky blocks. Candy molds make the soap go farther and look prettier. Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 21:56:34 +0600 From: james mabrey To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Soap Making Article Gillian: I enjoyed your article on soapmaking very much. Well done. A few things we have found in our soapmaking - If you want to hurry up removing your soap from the molds, after the 48 hours or so of hardening, you can put it in the freezer overnight. It pops right out of the molds. My mother's castilian, which of course is strictly olive oil for fat, does not have the problem with the oil coming to the top after pouring in the mold. I'll check with her for details. We have always placed our additives directly into the initial soap mixture, just prior to pouring. (essential oils, pumice, herbs, etc.). I have not noticed any problems in the final products. If one wants to make a soap with a higher content of goats milk (or other milk), replace some of the water with a equal amount of milk in the initial recipe. The temperature is really important here! If it is too high you will carmelize the milk sugars. it doesn't hurt the quality of the soap, it just makes it dark. We have had good success with varying quantities of milk. I guess we could afford experimentation, as we have a seemingly endless supply of goats milk. Bronwyn nic Dougal Calontir Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 22:58:41 -0500 From: "marilyn traber" Subject: Re: SC -Lye from ashes You derive the lye used in soapmaking from the wood ashes from your fireplace or wood stove. According to the foxfire series, you make a trough from whatever wood is on hand, drill a hole in the bottom. Plug the hole in the bottom, fill it with ashes, top off with water and let stand for a little while. Pull the plug out and drain the liquid out of the trough through coarse muslin to filter out the ashes. Let stand for a day or so to settle the remains of the ashes and use in the normal manner of soapmaking.[IE, heat the fat and lye in different containers to different temperatures, then add the lye to the fat in constant dribble while stirring. yipee, lots of fun, can smell terrible depending on what kind of fat you start out with.] margali Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:05:40 -0600 From: "Phyllis Spurr" Subject: Re: SC -Lye from ashes > According to the foxfire series, you make a trough from whatever wood is on > hand, drill a hole in the bottom. Plug the hole in the bottom, fill it with > ashes, top off with water and let stand for a little while. Pull the plug > out and drain the liquid out of the trough through coarse muslin to filter > out the ashes. Let stand for a day or so to settle the remains of the ashes > and use in the normal manner of soapmaking.[IE, eat the fat and lye in > different containers to different temperatures, then add the lye to the fat > in constant dribble while stirring. yipee, lots of fun, can smell terrible > depending on what kind of fat you start out with.] > margali I've also made my own lye, in about the same manner. However, an easier way to make lye water is to take a coffee can, punch holes in the bottom, fill with your ashes, place filled coffee can over a recepticle to catch lye water, pour water into the ashes and let drain. Do this several times with fresh ashes each time. I usually add a little table salt to strengthen the lye water and strain through a cloth to remove ash debris. I try to always use beef tallow for soap making, just my preference. I don't normally heat my lye prior to adding to the fat. Phyllis L. Spurr Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:48:33 +0100 (CET) From: Par Leijonhuvud Subject: Re: SC -Lye from ashes On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, Phyllis Spurr wrote: > > You derive the lye used in soapmaking from the wood ashes from your > > fireplace or wood stove. > I've also made my own lye, in about the same manner. However, an > easier way to make lye water is to take a coffee can, punch holes in > the bottom, fill with your ashes, place filled coffee can over a > recepticle to catch lye water, pour water into the ashes and let > drain. Do this several times with fresh ashes each time. I usually > add a little table salt to strengthen the lye water and strain > through a cloth to remove ash debris. I can't recall what pH you need for soapmaking, but for a stronger lye you can mix ashes with water, and boil the mix (1:2 (V/V, ashes/water) will typically give pH 11-12, IIRC). Be careful with strongly alkaline solutions; they are _very_ damaging to eyes, etc if you mess up. _If_ you do get some in the eyes the treatment is to rinse with plain water or sterile isotonic saline (preferred, for obvious reasons) as soon as possible (preferably within 5 seconds...), and keep rinsing until medical attention can be obtained. There are good reasons why people wear safety goggles in laboratories. /UlfR Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:11:59 SAST-2 From: "CHRISTINA van Tets" Subject: SC - lye, fish, pastry, japanese and horehound 2. Lye can be too strong. I am told that the correct strength is when it will float a hardboiled egg but not dissolve a feather. The people here who demonstrate skills like soapmaking from ash say that you have to boil the lye and fat together for about an hour. Bother. Forgot to bring quantities of lye and fat needed. Will mail them at a later date. Cairistiona nic Bhraonnaguinn Christina van Tets Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 08:15:24 -0600 From: "Decker, Terry D." Subject: RE: SC - lye, fish, pastry, japanese and horehound > 2) I know how to _make_ lye, but does anyone happen to know what it is > chemically?? (if only I had paid better attention in Organic Chem all > those years ago...) > > Bogdan It's probably potassium hydroxide (potash). Potassium hydroxide and sodium hydroxide (caustic soda) are both referred to as lye. Bear Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:50:21 -0500 From: "marilyn traber" Subject: Re: SC - lye, fish, pastry, japanese and horehound >2) I know how to _make_ lye, but does anyone happen to know what it is >chemically?? (if only I had paid better attention in Organic Chem all >those years ago...) >Bogdan Sodium hydroxide and / or potassium hydroxide. potassium hydroxide, KOH, caustic potash. properties: white deliquescent pieces, lumps, pellets, sticks or flakes having a crystalline fracture. Keep well stoppered- absorbs water and carbon dioxide from the air. Soluable in water, alcohol, glycerine, slightly soluable in ether. derivation: electrolysis of concentrated KOH solution. uses:soap manufacture, bleaching, manufacture of oxalic acid, reagent in analytic chemistry, matches, process engraving, in foods as an alkali, electrolyte in soreage batteries. sodium hydroxide-pretty much the same, deriven from electrolyzing table salt. chemically known as NaOH. yummy-just what I want in my lutefisk... margali Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 12:11:48 -0500 From: "marilyn traber" Subject: Re: SC - soap a hard white soap: 6.5 lbs rendered fat, 1 can commercial lye, .5 cup sugar[to make it lather, thats what it says, don't blame me...] render the fat, grind it finely then place in a shallow pan and put in a warm oven[250-300*f] pouring off the liquid fat periodically. the whole process should take a half an hour. strain the resulting liquid through cheesecloth to remove any crunchy bits. next place the fat into a pot with an equal amount of water and bring to a boil. Pour the fat off the top and discard the sediment. Next, buy a container of flake lye, there are various brands available. Use only enamel or stainless steel pots. next, it mentions that you add the lye to the fat and some recipes are not specific, but there is a temperature guideline for the people who have not grown up making soap, and therefor don't do it by rote. sweet lard 85*f, lye solution at 75*f half lard, half tallow 110*f, lye soln at 85*f all tallow 130*f, lye soln at 95*f now, i know people have mentioned on the list they just pours 'em together and stirs, but since the article also mentions this chart comes off the package of lye, how about giving it a try in the interest of safety-chemical caustics combined with organics can have drastic exothermic reactions...we dont need to lose members of the list for trying to recreate a medieval soaper who presumably was trined to make soap by the seat of his pants and probably knew how to figure the temperatures to do it safely... dissolve sugar in 1 cup very hot water, add this to 4 cups warm water. now empty a can of lye slowly into the mixture and stir. the lye will heat up on contact with the water and cause fumes therefor it should be done outside or in a well ventilated place. it is also a good precaution to have on hand a glass of vinegar in water to sip to stop coughing or to wash drips on the skin. as the temperatures of both liquids reach those speecfied, pour the fat into the lye in a thin stream, stirring constantly. when the mixture approximates the consistancy of honey, pour the liquid soap into a shallow pan or box that has been lined with a cloth wrung out in cold water. score the soap when slightly hardened. when set cut into squares/unmold and store. note- it should cool and harden slowly, it says that you can set it out under blankets to insulate and retain the heat or since this is a self sufficiency book, slide it under a woodstove used for heating and that it should take several days to cure before cutting/unmolding. [the book says 10 lb potash, 20 lbs grease - Margali 2/28/98] margali Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 16:05:28 -0500 From: "Karen Lyons-McGann" Subject: SC - soap Hmm, I hadn't been reading lately, but in trying to catch up, I see posts from Sunday about soap making. I've had these instructions for several years, though I haven't tried them yet. The quantities look more manageable for a beginner than the version I'm responding to that wants 6 and a half pounds of rendered fat. And look, doesn't Elina of Beckenham sound SCA? Evidently she's got a book and everything. How about that? Anne - ---------------------------------------------------- SOAP SOAP SOAP SOAP Since I have posted my request about soap making, I have gotten several requests to forward the information. I have continued investigating on my own and here is some info to get those of you started. Condensed from Soapmaking for the Beginner by Elina of Beckenham You will need a glass or ceramic mixing bowl of medium size. A wooden spoon... stainless steel will do in a pinch. Under no circumstances should aluminum be used for anything in this process. Lye dissolves aluminum. You need a measuring cup. That's it for hardware. Lard can be found at the grocery store next to the Crisco. A one pound box of lard will make two batches of soap. Lye is next to the Drano. One can will be plenty. The only other thing needed is a mold. A Pyrex dish will be fine. 1. Measure 4 oz. lukewarm water into the Pyrex measuring cup. You need to use something that can take the sudden heat. Carefully add 2 tablespoons of lye. Stir. Let sit. 2. Heat about half a pound of the lard (8 oz.) until liquid. Pour into mixing bowl. 3. Let both cool down before they are mixed to about body temp. Check the lye by feeling the OUTSIDE of the Pyrex cup. 4. When they have cooled, slowly add the lye to lard and stir constantly until step 5. 5. When the goop has reached the consistency of sour cream (this will take a while of constant stirring - keep stirring until it does this. I played a computer game), add any colors (food coloring ok) or perfumes, spices, or whatever. Then pour into your mold. 6. Cover with a towel and let sit for 24 hours. 7. Uncover after 24 hours and unmold on the 2nd or 3rd day. Let the soap sit or cure for 3-4 weeks. I did this and as long as you keep the stirring up until the sour cream consistancy, it will turn out! OTHER STUFF TO DO WITH THE GOOP Butter soap - Good for the skin instead of lard use butter Castille soap - Replace 3/4 the lard with 6oz. olive oil Rose soap - Use rose water, not tap and throw in a handful of dried petals Orange soap - Grate an orange peel and throw in a tablespoon or two Cinnamon soap - One tablespoon ground cinnamon *** I also found a craft gopher that supply info and more recipes can be found. The address is gopher.crafts-council.pe.ca Enjoy! Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 10:38:21 -0800 From: Tobi_Beck at amat.com Subject: SC - Re: soap >Hi Tobi, >I got this message on the SCA-Cook's list. Do you have a book (or is >this a class handout)? If a whole book exists, is there more medieval >soapmaking in it? Can I use plastic measuring spoons for the Lye? Will >the soap just "shake out" of the moulds? Can I use aluminium or plastic >moulds? >I was planning on trying soap making this year and have been looking information. If you want to reply to the SCA-Cooks list, their address >is sca-cooks at Ansteorra.ORG >Thanks for any help, >Crystal of the Westermark >(Crystal A. Isaac) >Karen Lyons-McGann (Anne) dvkld.dev at mhs.unc.edu wrote: Wow, be careful what you write, you never know what is going to happen to it. I wrote that article 10 years ago! To answer your questions: Not a book, just a pamphlet, go to www.geocities.com/athens/forum/1487 and follow the links to Beckenhall (the craft side of our pages). You will find the whole article. I'll be posting more on there, but if your interested in French milled soap, take the basic recipe (no spices or scents) and let it cure. Grate it with a food grater and measure 1 part water to 2 parts soap and melt in cooking pan over low heat. Stir slowly so as not to make a lather. When all the soap melts, mould into forms (candy forms, egg holders, be creative). Cool for half an hour and pop out of moulds. Let sit for 2 weeks, It makes a great soap, with good detail in the mould. You can also add essence oils, rose water, spices and the like just before you take it off the heat. Experiment, have fun! Try a half cup of oat meal and milk instead of water, or cornmeal and witchhazel (talk about a skin cleanser!), Aloe and Lanolin, all things from the drug store. Add three parts water to 1 soap and you get liquid soap. The best thing of these is that there is only what you put in. I have a nurse friend who is allergic to most soaps, but has no problem with these. Next question: NO ALUMINIUM! NO WAY NO HOW! It's very messy, take my experience, just don't do it. Plastic if fine, not medieval, but very useful. Next: In the basic soap recipe, the soap will not shake out of the mould, it needs persuasion, in the French milled stage, they pop out like chocolates. ( I once made a cinnamon soap using Christmas candy moulds and had someone mistake them for chocolates on the counter. He thought he was snitching a chocolate, big surprise. Almost as good as the lady who found some juice in the back of the fridge, and discovered that dye liquors in alum base, are not all that good. My house is not normally hazardous.) Yes, Elina of Beckenham is an SCA name. Was Trimaris, now West. This internet thing is amazing, gives credence that there are no more than seven degrees of separation around the world. Elina From: "Pamela Love, Owner" Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Soap Making Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:17:19 -0600 Organization: Soap Crafters Company If anyone is into making their own soap, here are tons of instructions, recipes and some photos: http://www.soapcrafters.com -- Soap Crafters Company (801)474-2993 Soap Base, Molds!, Essential Oils & Bulk Herbs Soap Making Instructions http://soapcrafters.com Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:55:15 EST From: DianaFiona at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - lard, was Which books? renfrow at skylands.net writes: << Hello! Welcome to the list. I've found solid 1-lb. blocks of lard -- "manteca" -- in shops catering to Spanish-speaking folks. Cindy/Sincgiefu >> I'm in the South also, as I believe, is the original poster, and I can get it easily in big blocks in some of the grocery stores. Just used some in a soapmaking experiment, which seems to have turned out fine so far. (Good thing--Christmas is fast approaching and this seems to have developed into my big project for the year! :-) ) Ldy Diana [contributed by "Philippa Alderton" ] From: sunshinegirl To: herbalist at Ansteorra.ORG Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 11:40 PM Subject: HERB - one bar recipe for soap _Back to Basics_, by Reader's Digest (a wonderful "how to" book,) has some soap recipies. It states that "According to Roman legend, soap was discovered after a heavy rain fell on the slopes of Mount Sapo (the name means "Mount Soap" in Latin). The hill was the site of an important sacrificial altar, and the rainwater mixed with the mingled ashes and animal fat around the altar's base. As a result..., the three key components of soap were brought together: water, fat, and lye (postash leached from the ashes)." Although, by definition, every soap is made by the saponification (chemical combination) of lye, water, and fat, one soap will differ from the next depending on the kind of fat, the kind of lye, and how much of each is used. Traditionally, soapmaking for the year was done in Autumn, when the annual butchering of animals took place and fat was available. Lye was produced by filling a hkopper with hardwood ashes, and running water through the ashes. Once this was done, the water was sent through again, until it would float an egg. If the egg sank to the bottom, it was too weak. If it floated at the top, it was too strong. If it floated in suspension, in the middle, it was just right. Ingredients for soap are fat - any kind of pure animal or vegetable fat, from reclaimed kitchen grease to castor oil; tallow, lard, olive oil, crisco vegetable shortning, etc. lye - Available in many supermarkets or hardware stores in dry crystal - sodium hydroxide. My personal choice is Red Devil Lye, found in the drain cleaner sections. water - soft. Clean rainwater is nice. Add some borax if in a hard water area. Recipie for single bar experimentation 1/2 cup cold soft water 2 heaping tbsp. commercial lye 1 cup melted beef tallow Gloves (unless you want to live dangerously and risk a lye burn...) Slowly add the lye to the water, then bring both lye solution and tallow to about body temperature. Do not touch the lye water - it will burn. In fact, be very careful with the lye. Combine lye water and tallow in a glass bowl and mix slowly and steadily with an egg beater (I use a fork with the small quantities) until the consistency is that of sour cream. Pour mixture into mold and age according to standard procedure - i.e. remove soap from mold after 24 hours, leave in the open for 2-3 weeks, turning over daily. If it stays too soft after a couple of days, then place it over low heat until it melts, and then stir until ready to pour into molds. A standard batch recipe calls for on 13 oz can of commerical lye, 2 1/2 pints of water, and 6 pounds of fat. about 9 punds of soap result, enough to make 36 bars of toilet soap. Adding the lye to the water will generate temperatures in excess of 200 F, so plan on enough time for it to cool. If adding a scent, don't add the oil until just before molding. Or make an infusion, strain, and use that instead of plain water. Don't use alchohal based scents - it can interfere with saponification. Use the single bar recipie and experiment with different fats, scents, and additives. I haven't bought commercial soap in years - I'd rather make my own!! Have fun, and if anyone has any questions, I'll be happy to answer them to my best ability. If anyone else has a different one bar recipie, I'd love to have it. Melandra of the Woods [Contributed by "Philippa Alderton" ] From: Gaylin Walli To: herbalist at Ansteorra.ORG Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 11:13 AM Subject: HERB - Jasmine's one bar soap recipes Here are some test soap recipes I promised that people can use when experimenting with herbal and herbal essence additions to assist them in their recreational endeavors (i.e. SCA research at its finest!). Be careful with this stuff. Don't blindly make soap because you think you can. Be sure you can. This weekend I made an 11 pound batch using every possible safety procedure I know and I *still* got three lye burns, one on my face and one on each forearm, even though I was wearing long sleeves, heavy rubber gloves, and safety glasses. My measures are pretty exact and are intended to have very close to 5% excess fat/oil when the saponification process is done. You can increase the percentage a bit as you decrease the lye in small increments (even increments as small as 1/100th of an ounce). I can help you increase or decrease this amount as needed. If anyone would like to learn the calculations, I'd be happy to teach you how, assuming you can follow the logic of someone who abhors simple math. :) Now, you'll notice I didn't include anything for shortening bars. You'll find a shortening recipe occasionally on the net called "Tony's No Fail Soap." Don't use it. The quality & makeup of shortening varies widely throughout the US and the world. There's simply no good way to determine what percentages of ingredients will exist in the shortening in your area and even then, the brand you buy will cause changes in your calculations. The last recipe is the one I use the most often and the olive oil test bar is the one I use second most for testing. If you have some other oil I've not listed here or some combination you'd like to see, I can either tell you or show you. Just let me know. -- Jasmine PS: One fluid ounce (US) equals a eeny weeny bit more than 2 tablespoons of liquid (US). 4 fluid ounces (US) equals 1/2 cup (US). All Tallow Test Bar ------------------- 8 ounces tallow (measured when solid) 3 fluid ounces water (distilled or filtered) 1.07 ounces sodium hydroxide (by weight) All Lard Test Bar ----------------- 8 ounces lard (by weight) 3 fluid ounces water (distilled or filtered) 1.05 ounces sodium hydroxide (by weight) All Canola Oil Test Bar ----------------------- 8 ounces canola oil (by weight) 3 fluid ounces water (distilled or filtered) 1.05 ounces sodium hydroxide (by weight) All Peanut Oil Test Bar ----------------------- 8 ounces peanut oil (by weight; I use blended, not extra virgin) 3 fluid ounces water (distilled or filtered) 1.03 ounces sodium hyrdroxide (by weight) All Safflower Oil Test Bar -------------------------- 8 ounces safflower oil (by weight; I use blended, not extra virgin) 3 fluid ounces water (distilled or filtered) 1.03 ounces sodium hyrdroxide (by weight) All Olive Oil Test Bar ---------------------- 8 ounces olive oil (by weight; I use blended or pomace, not extra virgin olive oil) 3 fluid ounces water (distilled or filtered) 1.03 ounces sodium hyrdroxide (by weight) Olive, Coconut, & Palm Oil Test Bar ----------------------------------- 4 ounces olive oil (by weight) 2 ounces coconut oil (by weight) 2 ounces palm oil (by weight) 3 fluid ounces water (distilled or filtered) 1.13 ounces sodium hydroxide (by weight) [submitted by "Philippa Alderton" ] From: Sheron Buchele/Curtis Rowland To: herbalist at Ansteorra.ORG Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 6:19 PM Subject: Re: HERB - Re: Soda ash problem?? mikel at pdq.net writes: > How do you take care of the soda ash that forms on the bars? If you are > giving them as gifts the ash makes the bars not quite as appealing. I have really enjoyed the soap chat and look forward to using the single bar recipes. I don't know why I never thought about just making a bar to try something new! In haste as the Christmas rush is deeply upon our business (we hope to have a web page soon with all our products and such - I'll let the list know when) but I needed to comment on soda ash on the soap. I make soap professionally - around 15 to 20 - 3 pound batches per month. I had a lot of trouble with ashing on soap when I used shortening and tap water. But it varied from time to time - as I think Jasmine pointed out, the oil blend of shortening changes. I now use about 1/2 cup of shortening in 4 cups of oils and I also use about a tablespoon of beeswax per batch. I also superfat all of my soaps. I also started using RO water to make soap about the same time. I don't know which made the difference and don't have the time to find out. But now, I never have any problem with ash. Even my cinnamon soap which is a very deep brown color stays clear (and I dispaired for over a year on this soap)! I find that if the bar has "ashed" it will also sweat badly if stored plastic. I put my soap in plastic shoe boxes to store and travel. When at home, I turn the lid upside down to let the soap "breathe". Sweating soap ruins labels so I was very motivated to get rid of the powdery residue. Baroness Leonora Outlands [submitted by "Philippa Alderton" ] From: Jan Ward To: herbalist at Ansteorra.ORG Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 2:55 AM Subject: HERB - Soap-superfatting to avoid soda ash The recipe I used for soap comes from "The Soap Book" by Sandy Maine, Interweave Press. I added a little more fat, in the form of a small jar of cocoa-butter, the juice of a medium sized Aloe leaf, and a couple of vitamin E pills. Actually, I'm not sure the last two are fats, but they seemed like a good idea, so I added them. The recipe in the book calls for: 24 ounces olive oil 24 ounces cocoanut oil 38 ounces of Crisco 12 oz. sodium hydroxide (lye) 32 ounces rain, spring, distilled or tap water (I use distilled) 4 oz. essential oil (I combined cinnamon and cloves) This was my first time making soap. It seemed to take about a week to really set up. Part of it mushed up as I removed it from the tray, so I just squished it into balls and let it dry that way. I tried it after another week, and it was still fairly strong and irritating to my hands. However, after about a month of curing, it turned into the best soap I ever used. It lathers great, does not melt in the soap dish, and leaves my skin soft as a baby's. Nothing like "grandma's lye soap". Edwinna [contributed by "Philippa Alderton" ] From: Gaylin Walli To: herbalist at Ansteorra.ORG Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 11:54 AM Subject: Re: HERB - Soap-superfatting to avoid soda ash Edwinna wrote: >I added a little more fat, in the form of a small jar of cocoa-butter, While I am by no means an expert in the field of soap making, I think this is the source of half of your problems, unfortunately. How much is a small jar? Even a very small amount is going to cause your soap to change drastically. However, in my opinion, erring on the fat side is far safer than erring on the lye side. >the juice of a medium sized Aloe leaf, and a couple of vitamin E >pills. Actually, I'm not sure the last two are fats, but they seemed >like a good idea, so I added them. The last two are not fats. :) The aloe may help with skin irritations, however, I think current research suggests that the heat of the reaction between the fats and the lye water destroy the good things that aloe does. The vitamin E, however, acts as a preservative, fortunately, I don't know how the high temperatures of the soap making process affect that oil. I could find out if you're interested. >38 ounces of Crisco This is probably the source of the other half of your problems. As I mentioned previously, the only way to be truly sure that you will get a good soap mix is to use a shortening that is 100% of a *specific* vegetable oil. Not just "100% vegetable oil" on the label, either. They have to list specifically which plant it came from. And when they do that, then you can calculate how much lye and water to use. Without that information, it's sort of a crap shoot. Different parts of the country receive different versions of Crisco, as I understand it, to account for geographical and cultural differences (i.e. hotter areas receive different Crisco than colder areas; places that deep fry more receive a different kind than areas that do more baking). So, let's do a little calculating. These were your ingredients: 24 ounces olive oil 24 ounces cocoanut oil 38 ounces of Crisco This recipe, using 32 oz of water and 12 ounces of lye already has your recipe superfatted to about 8%. That's a good amount of superfatting to start with. Now, you say you added a small jar of cocoa-butter. Let's say for arguments sake you used about a 4 ounce jar. By increasing the fat in your recipe by these 4 oz, you've increased your superfatting (or the lye discount, as some people call it) to around 11%. That's way too much for a hard soap, I think. Staying between 5-8% is probably a better idea. Lower than 5% is personal preference, and higher than 8 percent starts seriously affecting the curing time, the hardness, and the shelf life (because your soap can go rancid with too much fat). >It seemed to take about a week to really set up. Part of it mushed >up as I removed it from the tray, I'm going to assume that you got the whole mix to start tracing, right? When it's like thin pudding that you can write your name in if you drizzle some of the mixture on top of itself? It seems odd that the mix took a week to set up. The only soaps I've had do that are all-olive soaps or very large batches (10 lbs of ingredients). Another idea I just thought of was that you might not have kept the mix warm enough while it was in the mold. That could account for the fact that it irritated your hands and also was still mushy in the center. Blankets blankets blankets! You say you: >just squished it into balls and let it dry that way. Probably one of the better things you could have done. I congratulate you on your first soap making expedition. You have been far more successful than I was the first *several* times I made soap. :) I cringe when I think of the things I did to my kitchen then. >after another week, and it was still fairly strong and irritating to >my hands. Did it burn? If it did, that probably means the oil and lye didn't react completely, or the lye was never really completely mixed in. There are a lot of variables here, so it's really hard to know for sure. >However, after about a month of curing, it turned into the >best soap I ever used. It lathers great, does not melt in the soap >dish, and leaves my skin soft as a baby's. Nothing like "grandma's lye >soap". The "lye soap" problem that so many people get squeamish about is often the result of brainwashing. All soap is lye soap with the exception of those made with potassium hydroxide (liquid soaps or soft soaps typically use this). The variables that our grandmothers had to deal with are not the same ones that we deal with now. We have *much* more knowledge about the actual chemistry and variables that made the soap making process in our ancestors' times quite a gamble. In any event, congratulations on your first batch of soap! jasmine [contributed by: "Philippa Alderton" ] From: DianaFiona at aol.com To: herbalist at Ansteorra.ORG Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 1:07 PM Subject: Re: HERB - Soap-soda ash(LONG) Since this topic is also being discussed on the soap list I read, I thought I'd send some of their discussions this direction........ Maybe one of the ideas will help! ;-) Ldy Diana ****************************************************************************** Last year at this time I had a terrible soda ash problem. I experimented with as many variables as I could and here's what I suggest to those of you struggling with it now: *Use your stick blender sparingly *Mix at temps between 105-115 *Here's the weird one I don't think I've seen contributed. (I don't insulate my soap, I put it in the oven. I heartily recommend this procedure if you haven't tried it yet) Just before you combine the oil and sodium solution, place a pan of boiling water in the bottom of the oven. Don't turn the oven on! Close the oven door and in the time it takes you to finish your batch, the oven is ready. Is it the extra warmth or the humidity? I haven't decided yet but I don't fuss with saran wrap anymore and this has worked 100% for me since. There's more to this ash problem than oxygen exposure. Someday maybe we'll collectively figure it out. HTH and HAPPY THANKSGIVING, Claudia Anderson Soap Works ****************************************************************************** Claudia..... Ya know....i used to get a lot of ash before i started using Palm oil....especially on the bars that were straight Crisco Shortening. It would appear on ALL sides, cut edges and top (which i always do the saran wrap thing). I insulate after i pour and then cover after the bars are sliced. Which leads me to believe it may be the combination of oils and nothing more. Now with the palm, i have none. (recipe is 40 oz. palm, 20 olive, 20 oz. coconut and superfat with shea and castor) Hugs, Jill in Michigan ****************************************************************************** I use Palm Oil, too, and still have the soda ash problem. The only batch I haven't had it with is the latest batch & I covered that with saran wrap about 5 minutes after I poured into the mold. I gently layed the wrap directly onto the soap & tucked it into the corners as best I could. I insulated (but peeked several times) for 24 hrs & then cut (I'm too impatient to wait much longer). Didn't put the wrap back on the soap after cutting, just layed it on the racks to dry. So far, no ash. My soap kitchen is in my laundry room so don't have an oven down there (yet!) so it's easier for me to wrap with saran than risk dumping a whole mold of soap getting it up the basement stairs. The oven thing sounds interesting. Tammy Duriavich Clean Hands, Warm Heart... Handmade Soaps & Bath Products email: murph at xsite.net ****************************************************************************** The only batch I haven't had it with is the latest batch & I covered that with saran wrap about 5 minutes after I poured into the mold. In my experience this has proved true for me too. Laying plastic- wrap over the surface of the raw soap prevents soda ash everytime. As mentioned above it's a good idea to wait those 5 extra minutes after pouring before covering because it allows the soap to set up a bit so it's easier to get all of the wrinkles out of the plastic wrap. Christie ****************************************************************************** l use Palm Oil in my GMS (Goat's Milk Soap) - and I do have soda ash on the exposed side of my molded bar!!! Ends that theory!!!!!! However, it does not bother me, nor has it influenced the sales. Just my 2 cents worth! Dottie -- Home of Capri-Dot's Nubians, Tiny Blessings Dwarf Nubians, and now, "Capri-Suds", Goat Milk Soap! Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 18:51:26 EDT From: To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Lye directions "Tidings from the 18th Century," by Beth Gilgun, has a chapter on soapmaking. It covers rendering the fat as well as making your own lye by dripping water through wood ashes. Detta Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 18:30:26 -0600 From: Sheron Buchele/Curtis Rowland To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Leonora rants on about soapmaking ;-) At 06:51 PM 6/3/99 EDT, Detta wrote: >"Tidings from the 18th Century," by Beth Gilgun, has a chapter on soapmaking. > It covers rendering the fat as well as making your own lye by dripping water >through wood ashes. I must interject here! In my younger days, I was a docent at the Living History Farms in Des Moines, Ia. For a big festival, we made soap from scratch - rendered fats (it is clear why it is done outside over a fire, the smell is intense), made lye with a hay filled bucket (takes a long time - the test we used was to run the lye through until it dissolves a medium fine chicken feather - this was mostly done before the festival, we showed the set up), and then boiled the mess (over the fire in a big iron pot stirring with a long wood spoon - and don't even get me started on how wonderful it smelled) until it just about sets up. Take a paddle and push it into a wood mold. The dark evil mess set up and we cut it with in an hour or so. The bars dried and just became darker and more evil as they aged. Eventually we threw most of it away. We kept a few "show bars" in the log cabin but I refused to make it again. And all in an apron, long dress and bonnet. I am glad that I did it, but it was a tremendous amount of work (even if I was "on the clock") and the outcome was not usable. This being the SCA arts list , I have to say: It is my belief that in the Middle Ages soap was bought from professional Soap Guilds. It wasn't until people moved to the New World and away from the professional soap makers that the average homemaker had to make it herself. Very much like breadmaking - professionials have better and more consistant sources for raw materials and equipment so on a piece by piece basis can do it for less money. Look in the Stephan's files for the soap discussion from a while ago for more info and holding forth of opinions ;-) He was kind enough to publish a bit of soap documentation I wrote for a Kingdom A&S somewhere in there as well that I think is still available. (**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://lg_photo.home.texas.net/florilegium/index.html ****) Finally, I have to say that as a professional soapmaker, soap is challenging to make even with pure lye and consistant fats. I make hundreds of pounds of soap a year, and I still have failures and unexplained occurances. I still choose to make my own soap and have lot of people that I have taught who make 1 to 2 batches a year who choose to make their own soap, but it is the single most challenging product that I make for our business. I guess I am ranting about this as a way to futher support the theory that in the Middle Ages, soap was bought from professionals.... But don't let me discourage you from walking your own path of discovery! ;-) You may have a much more wonderful and instructive time than I! Baroness Leonora PS. some of my soaper friends swear by rendering fat in the microwave. They just fill a plastic container with fat scraps and a couple of inches of water, zap the thing until the scraps are mostly crispy, strain it, put back in the container, put it in the fridge until the fat sets up, scrape the bottom of the mass to get the last of the ook out and you have nice clean fat for almost no money. Me, I just buy tubs of lard, shortening, and vats of olive oil. As my ole pappy used to say "you gots time or you gots money - but you only spends it once." Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 18:31:29 -0600 From: Sheron Buchele/Curtis Rowland To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Many sources for lye >A quick question: Where does one buy lye for making soap? Thanks. >Nancy Easiest to get: Red Devil lye in the plumbing section of the grocery store. It is 12 oz. for about $4, here. Expensive but easy. You can surf to get a lot of sites that carry soap making supplies that carry larger quantities of lye. Shipping adds cost, look to see if one is local. Cost per pound of lye is usually somewhat less, though. If you live near a large city, look in the phone book under chemicals. Call and ask if they carry sodium hydroxide (for cold process hard soap) in flake or bead form. I get it in Denver for $35 for a 50 pound bag of bead. I am just about out - took me about 12 months to go through 50 lbs. Next time, I am going to try flake. It gets hotter, but the beads stick to everything plastic with static electricity. Cheap buy labor intensive. You get a lot of stares from the loading dock people unless they are used to soapers :-) BTW, if you live in a humid area - figure out a way to keep the lye dry. It draws moisture from the air and turns into a solid lump which is most unuseful. Always check your containers of lye to make sure that they shake, even in the little plastic containers they can solidify. Good luck! Baroness Leonora who makes up to 90 pounds of soap a month Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:23:59 EDT From: To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Leonora rants on about soapmaking ;-) arianne at blackroot.org writes: << But if you use too much lye, it's a health hazard. >> IMany of the soapmaking suppliers on the web have lye calculators. One in particular is Magestic Mountain Sage, sorry I don't have the URL at hand this instance. Anyway you can list your ingredients and it will calculate the proper amount of lye to use. Ismay Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 08:56:50 PDT From: pat fee To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Many sources for lye Does anyone know where to get palm oil? I understand you need to add this to make soap "lather" I have found the documentation for the importation of palm oil through the "Italian" trade route in period. Now I just need to find a source for the oil. Morganuse Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 18:50:16 EDT From: To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Many sources for lye lcatherinemc at hotmail.com writes: << Does anyone know where to get palm oil? >> I get mine from Herbal Accents in Encinitas Ca. Their URL is http://www.herbalaccents.com BTW the URL for Lye Calculation from Majestic Mountain Sage is http://www.the-sage.com They also sell carrier oils. Ismay Subject: Homemade Lye recipe here Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 12:43:51 EDT From: Skye191016 at aol.com To: SCA-GARB at LIST.UVM.EDU Here is the recipe for homemade lye known as "potash": First you need a "wooden" bucket/container. (Plastic or metal will interact with the lye) The larger the bucket the better since the more ashes we use, the more concentrated the lye solution. On them bottom side of this container, drill a 1/4" hole. (Get as close to the bottom without drilling underneath.) Place this wooden container on cinder blocks or other supports so that a crock or other enamel pot can be placed under the hole. Set the wooden container at an angle with the opening at the lowest point. "Line" the bottom of the wooden container with "straw" to act as a strainer. Pack the barrel with ashes, preferably from hardwood. Note: oak (any type), hickory, sugar maple, fruit woods, beech, and ash wood produce the strongest lye. Finally scoop out a depression at the top enough to hold 2 to 3 quarts water. Fill the depression with "distilled" water heated to the boiling point. Let it seep through the ashes at will. It will take a while for the water to complete its seepage, perhaps as long as several days, depending on how packed the ashes are. But, do not hurry this process as it will affect the quality of the lye. Although soap can be made directly with this lye solution, it is more convenient and precise to have the lye in crystal form. (insures proper measuring) To extract lye crystals from this homemade potash, boil down the solution in a "stainless steel" or enamelware pot. At first, a dark residue called "black salts" will form. This is normal. By maintaining heat, additional impurities can be driven off, leaving the desired "grayish white" potash crystals. The boil should be kept at a "simmering boil," (small bubbles, NOT a rolling boil). Until one learns the cooking method that's right for them, I'd suggest cooking a cup or two of the liquid potash at a time until you're comfortable identifying the crystals. Note: To test to see if your liquid potash is concentrated or strong enough for soapmaking, take out a couple of cups and placed in a bowl to make liquid about 3-4" deep. Crack a raw egg in the solution, if the egg "barely" floats, then the lye is good for soapmaking. Hope this answers all questions, but feel free to ask if further instructions or details are necessary. Happy soaping! Katerina :) Note: recipe was taken from the Reader's Digest "Back to Basics" book. Subject: Re: soap/lye Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 16:49:04 -0400 From: Kevin of Thornbury Organization: Barony of Ponte Alto, Kingdom of Atlantia To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org Jessica Wilbur wrote: > I haven't touched on any safety precautions, > so let me know if you need more details on how > to handle lye safely. > > Gotta teach a class on this some time... =) > > --Muireann ni Riordain In case Muireann isn't asked, and doesn't get a chance to respond I will make one safety comment (which I know Muireann knows full well). Lye burns. When you get burned with it (and you will), rinse off the injury with vinegar to stop the burning. Lye is a base, and you need the acid in the vinegar to counteract it. _____ |_|_| Kevin of Thornbury | | | (Kevin Maxson) \|/ kevin at maxson.com http://www.atlantia.sca.org Subject: Re: soap/lye Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 17:32:13 -0400 From: "Jessica Wilbur" To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org > In case Muireann isn't asked, and doesn't get a chance to respond I will > make one safety comment (which I know Muireann knows full well). > > Lye burns. When you get burned with it (and you will), rinse off the > injury with vinegar to stop the burning. Lye is a base, and you need > the acid in the vinegar to counteract it. Thanks Kevin! I probably should have included a few points on dealing with lye. (I was afraid I'd gone on too long and everyone was asleep on their keyboards!) Anyway, you may not necessarily get burned with lye, if you are careful. I reccommend wearing rubber gloves while handling it (like the kind for washing dishes or doing icky household chores). It's also a good idea to wear safety goggles, since lye can give off some pretty nasty fumes when mixed with water (as you are supposed to do for soapmaking). Do your mixing in a well-ventilated area (outside is best but if you have a fan on in the kitchen or where ever, you'll probably be all right. Just don't stick your nose in the measuring cup). Also, a lye/water solution gets HOT. The temperature goes up dramatically, so be careful. This is why Pyrex is good to use. And use care when pouring the lye solution into the fats, try not to sploosh. This is how I got a minor lye burn and it wasn't fun at all. --Muireann Subject: Soap/lye questions Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 20:50:48 -0700 From: Brenda To: submission to merry rose I have to agree with Misty on the "Art of Soapmaking". I hooked her up with that one, and it is one of the easiest books for the beginning soapmaker. I also like Susan Cavitch's books, The Natural Soap Book" and "The Soapmaker's Companion", but I'm like Misty in that I can lay my hands on at least 6-7 books on soap in my library. I also cannot emphasize the importance of safety when handling lye.I definitely do not recommend breathing the fumes and I always have vinegar on hand to clean up spills. I also prefer to use Pyrex for mixing my soap. By the way, I get my Red Devil lye in the cleaning section of the grocery store (usually next to the Drano, don't get the two confused). I personally like the soap that results from using tallow. I make almost all of my own soap, have for many years. I have been having problems obtaining beef fat to render into tallow, but I sure would like to hear >from anyone who has been able to obtain it in small quantities already rendered. Adendra Subject: Soapmaking Supply Links Date: 8 Sep 99 10:18:29 EDT From: DQueenBee To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org A very good web site that has links for soap making supplies http://www.lis.ab.ca/walton/old/soaphome.html Debbie Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 04:27:10 MST From: soapmakers Subject: Free Soapmaking Message Board, Tips, recipes, Chat NON-COMMERCIAL To: "Mark.S Harris (rsve60)" Hi, just a line to let you know that the FREE! Soapmakers message board is now "on the air" This is a non-profit TOTALLY NON-COMMERCIAL message board for tips and trends in soapmaking. Please come and share your soapmaking experience with us at soapmaking.chatboard.org Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:15:09 -0400 From: "Sharon Gordon" Subject: [Sca-cooks] The mystery soap ingredient in context To: Thanks to the people giving it a try so far (even those playing monopoly with the soap ingredients...sigh... :-) .) ****************** The Secretes of the reverend Maister Alexis of Piemont containying excellente remedies against diverse diseases Imprinted at London by Johng Kyngston for John Wight 1580 p. 52 A very exquisite sope, made of diverse thinges. Take aluminic casini, three ounces, quick lime one part, strong lie that will beare and egge swimmyng between two waters, three pottles, a pot of common oyle, mingle all well together, puttyng to it the white of an egge well beaten, and a dishe full of the meale or floure of amylum, and an unce of romaine or blewe vitriol well beaten into powder and mixe it continually for the space of 4 hours, then let it stand by the space of a daie, and it will be right and perfect, finally take it out and cut it in peeces : after sette it to drie two daies in the winde, but not in the sunne, occupie always of this sope when you will washe your heade, for it is very holesome, and maketh faire haire. Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:26:30 -0400 From: johnna holloway Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] The mystery soap ingredient in context To: Cooks within the SCA The original English translation of this recipe from the 1558 edition of Alessio gives this recipe slightly differently: Take Aluminis catini is what the earlier edition says. later on it specifies "floure of Amylum, and an unce of Romayne Vitrioll, or redde leade well beaten into poulder..." From "The Second Booke of Secretes" Fol. 54 You might survey some other editions and check to see if the ingredients change or spellings differ. See my recent TI article for more on Alessio. This edition is available as a facsimile reprint. The Secretes of the Reuerende Mayster Alexis of Piemount. London. STC (2nd ed.) / 295. Facsimile by Walter J. Johnson, Inc. of Norwood, New Jerse and Theatrum Orbis Terrarum, Ltd. of Amsterdam. 1975. ISBN: 90 221 0707 8. Johnnae llyn Lewis Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:43:51 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." Subject: [Sca-cooks] The mystery soap ingredient in context To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorr.org'" I think in this context "aluminic casini" should be translated as "rock alum of Cassino." Which means this is probably aluminum potssium sulfate or aluminum sodium sulfate, commonly extracted from alumina ores and made into styptic pencils. There are several mines in Italy that have been operating since at least the 16th Century. The town of Casinium, located where the Abbey of Monte Cassino now stands, has the remains of a amphitheater made of "opus reticul alum" or "major veined alum," which means more alum per ton and suggests that alum was mined in the vicinity. The "blue vitriol" is a hydrous solution of copper sulfate That the recipe is a hair soap is interesting, because alum and copper sulfate are used in some modern shampoos. Bear Date Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:07:24 -0700 From: Susan Fox-Davis Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A mystery ingredient in a soap recipe To: Cooks within the SCA Phil Troy/ G. Tacitus Adamantius wrote: > I just spoke to a friend (a chemist) who suspects it's aluminic > caseinate (IOW, named in that it somehow pertains to cheese). I find one mention of aluminum caseinate ona page about lactose intolerance and additives: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/stevecarper/guide.htm Caseinates are milk proteins and show up in soap to promote foaming. If I had not seen the period recipe I would have thought this was a very modern formula. Selene Colfox, google-maniac From: Elizabeth Young Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Mediaeval Things to Do with Old Oil? Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 18:38:06 GMT Robert Uhl wrote: > alchem@en.com (James Koch) writes: > >>I suppose you could use the stuff to make soap. The type of soap you >>would obtain would depend on the type of plant or plants from which >>the oil was expressed. > > I'd thought only animal fat worked for soap, but I guess that doesn't > really make a lot of sense. I've used Crisco (solid vegetable oil) to make soap. There has got to be a process for cleaning used oil, but I can't think what it might be. I know that tallow (animal fat) has to be rendered before using for soap, but I can't remember what that process is either. Fat (ha ha) lot of good I am! liz young From: Elizabeth Young Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Mediaeval Things to Do with Old Oil? Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 06:15:10 GMT David J. Hughes wrote: > Elizabeth Young wrote: >> Robert Uhl wrote: >>> alchem@en.com (James Koch) writes: >>> >>>> I suppose you could use the stuff to make soap. The type of soap you >>>> would obtain would depend on the type of plant or plants from which >>>> the oil was expressed. >>> >>> I'd thought only animal fat worked for soap, but I guess that doesn't >>> really make a lot of sense. >> >> I've used Crisco (solid vegetable oil) to make soap. > Liquid oil used to make lye soap will produce liquid soap, rather than > bars. > > David Gallowglass Sodium hydroxide makes solid soap even with liquid oil, potassium hydroxide (which I have not tried) makes liquid soap in at least some cases. liz young Edited by Mark S. Harris soapmaking-msg Page 26 of 26