painting-msg - 6/25/05 Period and SCA painting. terms used. Paint bases and types. NOTE: See also the files: pigments-msg, Ren-paint-art, dyeing-msg, tiles-art, pottery-msg, gem-sources-msg, enameling-msg, paintg-panels-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: jliedl at nickel.laurentian.ca Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period Painting how-tos Date: 15 Oct 93 11:06:53 -0500 Organization: Laurentian University Good day good gentles, from Ancarett Nankivellis: tma3 at po.CWRU.Edu (Tamara M. Atam Alibeckoff) writes: > I'm presently trying to ferret out sources for late-period methods of creating > paintings, from the priming of the ground to the "finished product"--specific- > ally Italian. I'm presently taking on a research project about regional/time > differences in grounds and painting media in late Ren./early Baroque Italy, > and would be _grateful_ for anyone's recommending any texts/articles I could > add to my scrawny list. From the few art books I have in my office, I recommend Lorne Campbell's _Renaissance Portraits_ (Yale: 1990), he has a discussion about materials and methods. Beyond the obvious Theophilus, there's not much that I know of. As a bit of practical aside, I'm in the midst of a period-style painting, for which I got a wood panel from one society acquaintance and then some real gesso from my Mistress, and then pricked and pounced my drawing onto the panel. Now, if I only find time to finish Anthea's portrait, I'll feel better. Good luck! Ancarett Nankivellis Janice Liedl Laurentian University, Canada JLIEDL at NICKEL.LAURENTIAN.CA From: priest at vaxsar.vassar.edu (Carolyn Priest-Dorman) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period Painting how-tos Date: 15 Oct 93 20:14:07 +1000 Organization: Vikings R Us Unto the Fishyfolk of the Rialto, greeting from Thora Sharptooth! Another period source that seems like it would be quite useful for the study of Italian Renaissance painting is the following: Cennini, Cennino d'Andrea. THE CRAFTSMAN'S HANDBOOK: THE ITALIAN 'IL LIBRO DELL'ARTE,' trans. Daniel V. Thompson, Jr. New York: Dover Publications Inc., 1960. This book is a very thorough approach to the arts of drawing, fresco, and oil painting, along with lots of information on sizes, glues, varnishes, and other neat stuff. It was written in Florence in the fifteenth century. ***************************************************************************** Carolyn Priest-Dorman Thora Sharptooth Poughkeepsie, NY Frosted Hills ("where's that?") priest at vassar.edu East Kingdom Gules, three square weaver's tablets in bend Or ***************************************************************************** From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Illumination Date: 4 Dec 1993 03:21:17 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley Peter Rose wrote: >I'm playing at doing some illumunation, using a metal quill-type pen, >and using regular artists oil paint thinned with turpentine as pigment, >and I'm having trouble getting consistant coverage. Sometimes I get >Thin runny color, and sometimes I get dark sludge, that won't feed >off the pen. Am I using completely the wrong materials, or am I just >not mixing the turpentine in aggressively enough. *SHOULD* this work? I've never heard of oil pigments being used in period illumination, or oil pigments being used in a quill pen at all! No wonder you're having troubles. Try a tempera-type paint and a brush and I think you'll get much more satisfactory results. Here's a couple of books to look into when you have the time (and with any luck, anyone with better recommendations will correct me). "The Craftsman's Handbook (Il Libro dell' Arte)" by Cennino d'Andrea Cennini trans. by Daniel V. Thompson, Jr. Dover Books. ISBN 486-20054-X. (originally written in 15th cent. Florence) "The Materials and Techniques of Medieval Painting" by Daniel V. Thompson. Dover Books. ISBN 0-486-20327-1. Keridwen f. Morgan Glasfryn From: meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org (meg) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: art quiz answers Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 01:25:01 EST Organization: Stonemarche Network Co-op Greetings from Megan! Thanx for all the interesting mail answers. Here are the answers: 1.What is a muller? A muller is a grinding tool used to mix pigments in binders. Usually made of glass, they sometimes were made from stone (porphory). They are circular, with a handle, shaped like a hershey's kiss with a handle on top. The bottom is ground perfectly flat. 2.What is miniver, and what is it used for? Miniver is squirrel hair, usually from the tail. French brushmakers still use it for paint brushes. Ceninno Cennini recommends it. 3.There are at least 3 common names for turnsole. Give one of them. Turnsole is also known as heliotrope and as folium. It is a french flowering plant. Thepigment is obtained from the unripe seeds, and can be processed to get red, blue or ppurple colors. 4.How did gesso sotile differ from gesso grosso? According to Ceninni, gesso grosso is thick and gesso sotile is thinner grosso is used to create impasto and sculptural effects (like on frames) and the sotile is used to prime panels for painting. 5.Where can the earliest recipe for linseed oil be found today? As far as we know, the Mappae Clavicula has the first mention of linseed oil. 12th century. 6.From which plant was linseed oil derived? Flax yields linseed oil when pressed. Linen is spun from broken flax fibers. Tow is unspun flax fiber. 7.What's the difference between a binder, a vehicle and a medium? Tricky question, 'cause they're all somewhat related. Ground up colored stuff is pigment. Pigment is mixed or ground into a binder to give it adhesion so it will stick to the surface as paint. A vehicle is used to cut the binder, like turpentine is used to cut oil paint, to make it flow or to thin the pigment ratio. With watercolor or guache, gum arabic is the binder, water is the vehicle. Other vehicles can be added to alter the viscousity, such as ox gall or gum tragacanth. A medium is a type or variety of paint. Common media in the middle ages were water color, egg tempera, oils, chalk, fresco. Medium can also refer to technique. 8.Define the following binder's terms: folio, quarto, signature, gather. Binder in this instance refers to book binder.A folio is a pice of paper folded once in half, to yield 2 pages of 4 sides. A quarto is folded twice, yielding 4 pages of eight sides. (there is also an octavo, 8 pages or leaves with 16 sides. these terms date from the printing press which used to print many pages at once on one large sheet of paper, which was subsequently folded and cut into separate pages. These pages were gathered into groups to be sewn together...these groups were called signatures. Each signature contained 4 - 10 pieces of paper. The signatures were sewn onto tapes, this collection of signatures was called a gather, it was then bound into cloth or leather covered boards. 9.Who was reputed to have first used oil paint as a medium? the Van Eyk brothers are said to have developed the modern medium of painting with oil. Oil as a binder was used for painting on cloth long before the Van Eyks, but they first developed the techniques we know today. 10.For what artform were the following medieval cities famous? Bruges-illumination. Nuremburg-metalwork. Florence-goldsmithing Bonus who did what in a manuscript? Scribe-copied the words in ink with a pen. Limner-painted portraits and scenes. Historiator-drew and painted initial letters and decorative line flourishes. Illuminator-painted decorative borders. Bonus bonus what is a rubricator? A rubricator is an artist who added red or other colored letters, decorative line endings or signs to the otherwise black lettered manuscript. Vivat to all who answered correctly. King Morgan wins for most silly answers. Claim your prizes at EK Crown, Coronation, or at Pennsic. Others, send me your snailmail address for your just rewards. Another quiz in a few days. Megan == In 1994: Linda Anfuso In the Current Middle Ages: Megan ni Laine de Belle Rive In the SCA, Inc: sustaining member # 33644 YYY YYY meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org | YYYYY | |____n____| Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: rorice at bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (rosalyn rice) Subject: Re: Period Painters Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington IN Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 16:19:27 GMT sarah davitt wrote: >I an interested in the >painted arts...I have'nt seen anyone around doing so...and I am would >like to know/get in contact with someone who does. As well as any >information any one has would be much appreciated.:) Take heart, in my experience in the S.C.A. "If you do it, they will come." If you start playing with Period painting techniques, you'll attract a few other artists who are interested in the topic. I'm not an artist of any skill at all, but I do know a smattering of art history and art conservation. There are incredible amounts of information out there on artists techniques and materials that were used in the Middle Ages and Renaissance, mostly imbedded in Art History books. Ask your art history professors or reference librarian for help in finding information about medieval artists techniques. Dover still publishes a translation of Theophilus "On Diverse Arts" (12th c. text on stained glass, metal working, and other things) and Cellini's "A Craftsman's Handbook" which is a translation of Cellini's "Il Libro del Arte". Of the two, Cellini is more valuable since he tells you how to make brushes and pigments from scratch, as well as touching on metalwork and sculpting. There is also a fair amount of overlap between the materials used by medieval manuscript illuminators and painters. Since the S.C.A. is very rich in illuminators and supplies for illuminators, a decent illuminator is the person to ask for advice on how to start out. Finally, most art in the Middle Ages and Renaissance wasn't necessarily seen as being "fine art" to be hung on the wall. Artists were tradesmen who worked in organized shops and decorated all sorts of things. In Period, artists, even the "masters" might be called upon to do designs for armor decoration or embroidery, paint heraldic banners or chests, and design stage sets. With this in mind, you can turn your desire to do Period painting to artifacts that you can use in the S.C.A. How about a carcassone (Italian wedding chest with a decorated lid and sides with more decoration inside the lid)? How about a portable tryptich where the side panels fold to protect the center panel that you can display at events? How about painted designs on furniture? (I've seen some Period tables which were painted within an inch of their lives.) How about painted glaze designs on Period-style pottery? (I've seen some Period Majorica ware that is just gorgeous.) How about doing portraits of friends in the garb they've always dreamed of owning but could never make or afford? (Nobody said that portraits had to be entirely truthful.) Or, how about doing Period style (and media) drawings in the style you want to imitate as covers for your kingdom news magazine or TI? If you use a bit of imagination, you can find dozens of ways to turn your interests to use in the S.C.A. Lothar From: bettina.helms at 7thwave.com (Bettina Helms) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Period Painters Date: 24 Oct 94 14:42:00 GMT Organization: TSUNAMI - Catch the Wave! * Ponte Vedra, FL * 904-273-9738 RR>From: rorice at bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (rosalyn rice) RR>Subject: Re: Period Painters RR>sarah davitt wrote: RR>>I an interested in the painted arts...I have'nt seen anyone around RR>>doing so...and I would like to know/get in contact with someone RR>>who does. As well as any information any one has would be much RR>>appreciated.:) RR> Take heart, in my experience in the S.C.A. "If you do it, they will RR>come." If you start playing with Period painting techniques, you'll attract RR>a few other artists who are interested in the topic. Lothar is right. :-) RR> I'm not an artist of any skill at all, but I do know a smattering RR>of art history and art conservation. There are incredible amounts of RR>information out there on artists techniques and materials that were used in RR>the Middle Ages and Renaissance, mostly imbedded in Art History books. Ask RR>your art history professors or reference librarian for help in finding RR>information about medieval artists techniques. You need to read several such sources and compare them against each other, particularly if they are relatively modern studies of what was used "back then". One expert will tell you that, for instance, madder was not used at all until the Renaissance, and another will tell you that it has been traced back much further. I would also not neglect mundane art textbooks (e.g., Ralph Mayer, _The Artist's Handbook_, which contains a wealth of information on artists' materials, including very often what was in use when and a lot of common sense advice on how to use them). RR> Dover still publishes a translation of Theophilus "On Diverse RR>Arts" (12th c. text on stained glass, metal working, and other things) RR>and Cellini's "A Craftsman's Handbook" which is a translation of Cellini's RR>"Il Libro del Arte". Of the two, Cellini is more valuable since he tells RR>you how to make brushes and pigments from scratch, as well as touching on RR>metalwork and sculpting. Actually, that's Cennino CeNNini, not Benvenuto CeLLini. Two entirely different people -- CeNNini was apparently not very talented himself, but very good at collecting and distributing how-to-do-it information. I own both books, and find them both useful depending on precisely what I'm trying to accomplish. One note on making pigments from scratch: DO NOT try to do this without first reading a modern mundane work entitled _Artist Beware_! You could be in for some rather disagreeable experiences, or worse, if you do not first find out what materials may be handled safely with a few simple precautions, which ones take special training and lots of precautions, and which ones you should leave strictly to professional colormakers. (As you value your life and your sanity, DON'T try Theophilus's recipe for making cinnabar! Mercury fumes are *extremely dangerous*!) RR> There is also a fair amount of overlap between the materials used RR>by medieval manuscript illuminators and painters. Since the S.C.A. is very RR>rich in illuminators and supplies for illuminators, a decent illuminator RR>is the person to ask for advice on how to start out. Meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org (Megan, Baroness of Stonemarche) is one of the best people to inquire of. Anything *she* doesn't know about medieval illumination, probably no one else does either. RR> Finally, most art in the Middle Ages and Renaissance wasn't RR>necessarily seen as being "fine art" to be hung on the wall. Artists were RR>tradesmen who worked in organized shops and decorated all sorts of things. RR>In Period, artists, even the "masters" might be called upon to do designs RR>for armor decoration or embroidery, paint heraldic banners or chests, and RR>design stage sets. With this in mind, you can turn your desire to do Period RR>painting to artifacts that you can use in the S.C.A. [list of suggestions omitted] There were a few ideas on that list I hadn't thought of. Hmmm..... From: mchance at crl.com (Michael A. Chance) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period Painters Date: 25 Oct 1994 07:05:48 -0700 Organization: CRL Dialup Internet Access Anaximander writes: >sarah davitt (sdavitt at ub.d.umn.edu) wrote: >: I am an art student and recently involved in the SCA, and i know of a lot >: of Calligraphers and Illuminators...However...I an interested in the >: painted arts...I have'nt seen anyone around doing so...and I am would >: like to know/get in contact with someone who does. As well as any >: information any one has would be much appreciated.:) >Too much competition. I, for one, am not going up against Leonardo >da Vinci or Botticelli or any of those guys! However, you _could_ be one of Master Leonardo's students, working in his studio, creating works "in the style of". There are lots of works hanging in museums and galleries simply marked "From the workshop of X". For a noble that couldn't afford a portrait done by the Master himself, having one done by someone in the same workshop, supervised by the Master and in the same style, was often the next best thing. Since most of us can't afford a real Masterwork (or even a work from someone in the workshop), and since we can't bring the Masters back to life to do a portrait of _us_, having someone else do a portrait or other work that looks like it _could_ have been done by a Master is just as good, and probably a lot less expensive. Frankly, I think that there's probably a large, untapped market in the Society for portraits and other artwork done in authentic medieval and Renaissance styles. For instance, you probably could get lots of free advertising for your work by producing, say, a dozen works to be used as covers for Tournaments Illuminated. I'm sure that Mistress Siobhan wouldn't refuse three years worth of cover art in real medieval and Renaissance styles! Mikjal Annarbjorn -- Michael A. Chance St. Louis, Missouri, USA "At play in the fields Work: mc307a at sw1stc.sbc.com of St. Vidicon" Play: mchance at crl.com mchance at nyx.cs.du.edu From: bbrisbane at aol.com (BBrisbane) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: 16th C Recipe for Red Sealing Wax Date: 21 Jul 1995 00:43:21 -0400 Previously everyone wrote about what various meanings could be brought from Melting/melding Turpentine. Well, I'm fortunate enough to have found a substance to fit the bill!! Venice Turpentine is an extremely viscous turpentine which was used in period and can be bought today in art stores. In the winter it is as thick as pitch and damn near impossible to work with! I was making a Balsam varnish, which Venice Turpentine is, according to Cennini for a fixative to use on a charcoal portrait. I was also fortunate enough to find it amongst Apothacary bottles at an antique shop. The Turp was about 70 years old (a full bottle, so it was not concentrated via dehydration) and incredible stuff. I believe the modern equivallent is somewhat less viscous, but it could be left to stand. A more contemporary translation is to be found in 'Formulas for Painters' by Robert Massey. The Craftsman's Handbook; the Italian "Il Libro del Arte" , by Cennino D'Andrea Cennini, Translated by Daniel V. Thompson, Dover Publications, (This text is still available for approx. $7). Formulas for Painters, by Robert Massey, Watson-Guptill Publications, Chartwell Books Inc., NY, NY, copyright 1967 ( Can still be bought, I don't know where?? But is obtainable through inter-library loan). From: afn03234 at afn.org (Ronald L. Charlotte) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Egg tempera documentation sought Date: 11 Oct 1995 11:57:36 GMT Robert Ayotte (rayotte at badlands.NoDak.edu) wrote: : I am asking for a friend, is there a source for period documentation on Egg Tempera painting? There are two of the basic classic sources of course: Theophilus' _On Divers Arts_ (ISBN 0 486 23784 2) and Cennini's _The Craftsmans Handbook_ (ISBN 486 20054 X). The former dates from the 1100's (by most consensus) and the latter from the 1400's. Both are available as inexpensive paperbacks reprinted by Dover. There are others, but most are more obscure, and harder to come by. -- al Thaalibi -- An Crosaire, Trimaris Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL afn03234 at freenet.ufl.edu From: v081lu33 at ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (TRISTAN CLAIR DE LUNE/KEN MONDSCHEIN) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Egg tempera documentation sought Date: 11 Oct 1995 15:39:03 GMT Organization: University at Buffalo rayotte at badlands.NoDak.edu (Robert Ayotte) writes: > I am asking for a friend, is there a source for period documentation on Egg Tempera painting? Cennini, "Libero dell'Arte," early 15th century. --Tristan From: blhunter at mhc.mtholyoke.EDU (Brenda L Hunter-Andrews) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Egg tempera documentation sought Date: 12 Oct 1995 14:37:17 -0400 In response to the question of a source for period documentation about egg tempera painting, you may find the following sources helpful: "Vasari on Technique" Dover Publications ISBN 0-486-20717-X This is a reprint of his works done in the mid 1500's. I think that would give you a real period source. I am hoping to be teaching this as well as icon painting at the next Pennsic. Also try anything by Cennino Cennini, also a period artist. Italian artists really mastered this art form and the best documentation is about their style. I find grinding Lapis Lazuli, and other gemstones very costly and difficult. Mistress Megan of Stonemarch sells the pigments pre-ground. She ran the Guild of Limners at Pennsic this year. She should be listed in the merchant's directory. If you have further questions about this subject or other Art Historical queries I will be glad to be of assistance. Augustina BeArce From: cjacks51 at mail.caps.maine.EDU (Charles Jackson) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Needhelp with period paint! Date: 5 Feb 1996 08:17:21 -0500 >-> I am currently re-drying the paint in hopes that I might re-grind it >-> and add some more egg yolk as an emulsion. If any one has any >-> information on period paints and pigments, I would really appreciate >-> the help. > >-> Ld. Cystennin Ap Gareth of Drafn, Esq. An excellent text on painting techniques and materials , including egg tempra and fresco, is The Painter's Guide To Studio Methods And Materials by Reed Kay, ISBN 0-13-647941-3 . Having studied painting and gotten a degree in fine arts, I found this to be a very useful resource for information on mediums, pigments, and techniques. Well worth having around if you paint. Charles the as yet un-named ...... **************************************************************************** Charles W. Jackson III CJacks51 at mail.caps.maine.edu **************************************************************************** From: bbrisbane at aol.com (BBrisbane) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Period Pigments Help (Long) Date: 6 Feb 1996 01:09:43 -0500 I am Lord Brendan Brisbane, Minister of Arts and Sciences to the Principality of AEthelmearc in the Kingdom of the East. I would like to give you aid in your endeavor and perhaps point you down the path of period painting. I have followed the replies that your missive has received and it appears that none of them answered your query. I apologize in advance if my letter appears too terse or hard, but it is my desire to provide you information in a succinct form. Also be aware that I have but your original posting (now a memory) to base my response upon, and so I am not aware of what You KNOW about working with Period Pigments. Standard Disclaimer: I am not an Expert, I am simply passing on to you what I have learned via my experiences in studying and working with Period Pigments (PP). I would admonish you to weigh, sift, test, any information given to you, and find out for yourself whether what was passed on to you was the truth. That goes for my writings too! I would also like to say that an Artist is not made by having a Degree in art and you should not let anyone's credentials be the deciding factor in your search for knowledge. Find out for yourself. Firstly, I was thrilled to find your posting and to see the enthusiasm of your missive. I applaud such enthusiasm and intent. However, your missive did give one the opinion that someone told you that Egg Tempera was the only period form of painting, and so you dove right in and studied just that, Egg Tempera Painting. There are many differing forms of period painting, each of which has traits and characteristics that makes that form suitable for using upon one type of surface, while often making it unsuitable on other surfaces. Furthermore, Egg Tempera painting is one of the most dificult forms of painting (second to Fresco in my experiences), and can yield dissapointing results if one does not adequately study the form, and experiments a little. As you have sited, you have already had at least one dissapointing result. MiLord, you wished to find a paint that would function more like Gouache. I can only presume that you are at least familiar with that form of painting. To attain a PP paint more like Gouache you should begin by finding what precisely Gouache consists of. "The Artist's Handbook, of Materials and Techniques" by Ralph Mayer, 5th Edition, Viking Press, ISBN 0-670-83701-6 ($30, Hbk). in chapter 7 tells us that Gouache consists primarily of Gum Arabic and chalk. The Gum Arabic is a binding medium, a tempering agent, a glue if you will. That causes the paint to adhere to the surface of application. In Egg Tempera this is facilitated by the egg yolks. The chalk is simply an additive for the purposes of yielding an Opaque paint. If one were to remove the chalk so as to have just PP and Gum Arabic, you will have Watercolor paints. I beleive that this is what you are looking for. Gum Arabic is easily manipulated, dissolves in water, but will not keep. It does produce the ease of painting you find in using Gouaches, however, PP have varying characteristics which means they do not all flow the same. Your Gouaches are all consistent in their ability to flow, your PP will be determined by the amount of processing (grinding, milling, and mulling) they receive by your hands, and the structural make-up of the pigment substances (ie. . . ., Clays will grind up to a fine creamy consistent powder, while semi-precious stones like Malachite and hematite will tend to break apart into crystalline bits, pieces, and powder.). You will find that in the processing of Lapis that as you grind in finer and finer, it becomes lighter and lighter until its color washes out completely. As lapis is ground, it's crystaline structure defracts the light stiking it further and further and finally you will have but a useless white Powder. In - "The Craftsman's Handbook, Il Libro dell Arte" by Cennino Cennini as translated by Daniel V Thompson Jr. Dover Publications, ISBN 0-486-20054-X (Still available for about $6, Pbk. This was written in Period). - you will find on pages 36 to 39 that Ultramarine Blue is gained from Lapsi via a 'leaching' process, and not by grinding. Lapis alone utilizes this technique. Now what I'd like to address, and would admonish you to do, is on becoming a Craftsman. Being an Artist is simply not enough, one must also be a Craftsman. An artist, particularly one who works in PP, needs to intimately familiar with his tools, surfaces, materials, and all of their interacting characteristics. There is much more to making paint than just mixing PP with a binding medium. There is the processes of grinding your pigment substances, Mulling the paint (this process thoroughly mixes your PP with the medium, and then there is the actual process of painting. Painting is NOT as easy as all that! The craftsman will be aware of the chemical properties of his paints, what paints to use with what techniques (meaning; panel Painting, manuscript Illumination, Fresco), for PP are not universal in regards to the surfaces and binders with which they are mixed. Fresco work has a palette which is limmited to Earthy pigments: yellow/red/brown clays, lampblack, terre-vert, and others. Other painting forms have restrictions due to the interactions of the chemicals themselves. In watercolors (using pigment with your gum arabic) the mixture of Vermilion Red (Mercuric Sulfide) with Lead White (Lead Crabonate) yields . . . not pink but Grey. It does not matter how or in what quantity you mix them, you always get the same dead grey. It is chemically something other than it had been, and you cannot readily know what you have made. There are much worse reactions! Some of them are deadly, while others are a cumulative poison, and you must also consider safety precautions as you work. The fine dust produced in grinding pigments is one of the most dangerous parts of the work. So you can see that there is much more involved with using PP than slapping paint onto a scroll. Lead white and Silver leaf, or any other paint with a heavy metal content is unsuitable for painting work that is exposed to the air. Such paints will dull, tarnish, or blacken over time and alter the painters original intent. It is a matter of craftsmanship to know which paints you can use how and with what binders. The remedy for these chemical reactions lay in several techniques; Laying a WASH if color over a DRY under painting which allows the two colors to be seen together (this of course means using a binding medium which encapsulates (surrounds) the paint layers completely and keeps air from affecting them. ALL of these things the Artist/Craftsman will know. I would Admonish you, my lord to savor that enthusiasm, harness it, and focus it on knowing your tools and materials before you find your wasting your time and money. Other Books for your Contemplation: (You Should Read These!) The Craftsman's Handbook, "Il Libro dell Arte" by Cennino Cennini as translated by Daniel V Thompson Jr. Dover Publications, ISBN 0-486-20054-X (Still available for about $6, Pbk. This was written in Period). Vasari on Technique, by Georgio Vasari, Dover Publcations, ISBN 0-486-20717-X (About $10, Pbk. This was written in Period). The Materials of the Artist, and their use in Painting, By Max Doerner, Harcourt Brace Pub, ISBN 0-15-657716-X (About $14, Pbk). The Painter's Handbook, by Mark David Gottsegen, Watson Guptill Pub, ISBN 0-8230-3003-2. (About $30, Pbk --- Great Book!!). Artist's Pigments, a handbook of their History & Charcteristics, Volume-1, Robert L. Feller Editor. Nat'l Gallery of Art Pub, ISBN 0-89468-068-2 ( $17, Pbk. Very Tough to find!! You can still get them through Kremer Pigments in NY. Epitome of Books on the subject of specific chemical, analytical, and historical pigment information). Artist's Pigments, a handbook of their History & Charcteristics, Volume-2, Ashok Roy Editor. Nat'l Gallery of Art Pub, ISBN 0-89468-189-9 ( $35, Hbk. Very Tough to find!! You can still get them through Kremer Pigments in NY. Epitome of Books Vol 2 in serires (Vol 3 not released yet) on the subject of specific chemical, analytical, and historical pigment information). I hope you can chew on this for awhile. There is plenty more where that came from! If your coming to Estrella Wars look me up at 'Brendan's Banners' -------------- Brendan From: Ian Johnson Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Tempera Panel Painting/Gesso Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 11:55:39 +0000 Organization: Take 2 Productions Kate was here wrote: > I have some thoughts to share, having been perverse enough > to try this myself. Slaking the plaster takes weeks. I did mine > in a bucket in the bathtub (my housemate still hasn't forgiven > me). The directions in Cininni and Thompson work and well too. How does slaked plaster differ from normal plaster? BTW, I found slaked at Sinopia's www page- their price and a month's effort balance out. > When you make your gesso sotile, substitute zinc oxide or > titanium oxide for lead white in the recipe Rabbit skin glue is available from good art > or calligrphy supply firms; fish glue is harder (in my experience) > to get. I'm still at the gesso grosso stage. I finally got a mix of plaster and size (1/10 gelatin/water) that I can work with, but it has been cracking a bit as it dries. I'm doing a buckler as a test project and one that I wouldn't mind beating with a sword to see what happens. By the time I get the gesso technique worked out, it's going to be plenty heavy. Have you played with making raised designs in gesso? What did you use for scraping and smoothing? > Please do not contemplate making your own vermillion either. I considered buying vermillion, but it's expensive. Are there any substitutes that have the same color? Where pigments are concerned, I'm more interested in authenticity of shade than material. > When it got time to build up layers of gesso on wood, use a thick > lamination of wood or wet the back side if the water in the gesso > mix seeps deeply into the wood. Thompson and/or Cennini recommends sizing the wood first thing to close off the pores. Is there still a danger of warping even so? > For making the laminations of wood, find a place where no one else > will be around to smell the cheese glue in all its glory. > Unchanged cat boxes smell better. Do you have a cheese glue recipe? > Get a glass plate and meuller for mixing your pigments and your > gum water (well, I use gum water becuase I've had the best luck > with it). What is gum water? Have you tried egg yolk? > I've made the assumption that you have Cininni and both Thompson > books (all avail from Dover) at hand, as well as Divers Arts > (Theophilous) and Vasari on Technique (also from Dover, I > believe). Mayer's _Artist's Handbook_ is an essential modern > reference as to old materials and modern substitutes. I have Ceninni and Thompson, I'll look out for the others. Ian From: ez010263 at ucdavis.edu (Kate was here) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Tempera Panel Painting/Gesso Date: Sun, 14 Apr 1996 06:35:04 GMT Organization: UCD Ian and all other good gentles: >How does slaked plaster differ from normal plaster? plaster of paris is a a ploymorph of the mineral anhydrite, with a formula of CaSO4.(1/2)H2O. When you slake it, it takes in water and cures into gypsum, CaSo4.2(H2O). Since it's in a bucket while is sets, the presence of excess water prevents the gypsum from hardening into one large plater block. The end result is a very fine powder of gypsum. The time involved is necessary to push the reaction all the way to completion (normally, some of the original plaster-of-paris remains unreacted; and because of the law of mass action, the rate of reaction slows as the concentration of the plaster-of-paris drops - that's why it takes so long) Please don't try grinding up gypsum as a substitute. It has too many impurities. The trouble with buying slaked plaster is one of quality control. Making your own is better if you want some control over the purity of the final product. >I'm still at the gesso grosso stage. I finally got a mix of plaster >and size (1/10 gelatin/water) that I can work with, but it has been >cracking a bit as it dries. 1) make sure that's animal-based gelatine 2) your water to plaster ratio may be screwed up. Too much and too little water will both cause cracking. Your gesso mix should be thinker than a milkshake (the real kind, not the MacShake kind) but thinner than bread dough. >Have you played with making raised designs in gesso? What did you use >for scraping and smoothing? Knives. Lots and lots of knives. I'll not fess up to using spoons, forks, sandpaper and dental picks. >I considered buying vermillion, but it's expensive. Are there any >substitutes that have the same color? Where pigments are concerned, >I'm more interested in authenticity of shade than material. Cadmium red is a good color match and loads safer. It's not harmless; but so long as you don't lick your brush, eat nor drink when painting, nor store your paints and projects in reach of pets and children, it's not bad stuff (the best way to get cadmium poisoning is to smoke cigarettes a few decades). Cadmium may not be mercury in terms of toxicity, but it's still worth a heathy respect. It is expensive, as are all the cadmium pigments. They last longer than the lakes, so the price balances out. (My original tube of cadmium red is half empty; I bought it 8 yrs ago) >Thompson and/or Cennini recommends sizing the wood first thing to >close off the pores. Is there still a danger of warping even so? Which Thompson book are you referring to? I'm looking at Thompson's book on tempera painting (and not at his book and the materials and techmiques of medieval painting), and his recipes for prepping the wood are alright. (I confess that the other thing we did wrong was to neglect aging the wood, and in this case gave verification that haste makes waste.) >Do you have a cheese glue recipe? Cininni, p. 68 Use the curds from low-fat cottage cheese, or get some skim milk, let it sour, and then use the curds. Work it into the quick lime (CaO) thoroughly. Use it within the hour. The bad smell is the reaction that cures the glue. Blech! Avoid the temptation to purchase casein binder from an art supply: commercial caseins are more soluable and more alkaline that the real thing you can make at home, that is if you don't get evicted for the smell... >What is gum water? Have you tried egg yolk? Gum water is water mixed with solid gum arabic "crystals." Yes, I've tried egg yolk. Works well with malachite green, darkens azurite blue just a smidggin. Yellows and scarlets do ok with egg yoke. Don't use it with white or the darker reds: the colors substract and it dries looking somewhat brown. I use range eggs from friends. The grocery store eggs tend to make the copper carbonate pigments go brown within a few years (which will happen if there's too much sulfur in the egg). For the nasty pigments, I prefer glaire. I realize I forgot to mention that Thompson put out two books, one an materials and one on tempera. For your purposes, Thompson's tempera book will suit you better. ttfn, Twcs From: Ian Johnson Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Tempera Panel Painting/Gesso Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 14:43:15 +0000 Organization: Take 2 Productions Kate was here wrote: > 1) make sure that's animal-based gelatine > 2) your water to plaster ratio may be screwed up. Too much and > too little water will both cause cracking. Your gesso mix should > be thicker than a milkshake (the real kind, not the MacShake kind) > but thinner than bread dough. The first batch I mixed was thick, but didn't go on very smooth. I think I just didn't grind it in enough. The stuff that cracked was too thin. Will extra plaster gesso keep in a closed jar, or will it set up anyway? Is knox gelatin animal based? Boiling parchment would be cool, but the scribes would probably hate me for that. Do you have some idea of the strength of this gesso? I would like to be able to fight with the shield in the rare dress-up tourney. I figure normal plaster would crumble under a few blows, does the gelatin add a significant amount of strength? I was thinking of molding the gesso grosso, then laying some thin fabric soaked in size over it to prevent chipping, with several coats of gesso sottile added on top. > >Thompson and/or Cennini recommends sizing the wood first thing to > >close off the pores. Is there still a danger of warping even so? > > Which Thompson book are you referring to? In the Tempera book under the chapter on Cennini's gessos it says to coat the wood with size then cover it with size-soaked linen. I'm not too concerned about warping though, since I intend to curve it anyway. Ian From: cav at bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Medieval Paints Date: 3 Jun 1996 14:58:18 GMT Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd. Russ Gilman-Hunt writes: |> Well met, all my good friends. I have yet another question for you. . . |> |> What did the Irish, Vikings, Scots, Anglo-Saxons, Normans, etc use for |> "paint" in the 11th- 13th centuries? |> |> In practice, I'm looking at making a chair (so it's that great $12 |> Viking Chair from TI, it can still be decorated), and I would like to |> paint a design on it. Most of what I know is about paints used in manuscripts, and sort of absorbed incidentally, since I've been more interested in dyes than in paints. What a 13th century Scot might use could certainly be different from what an 11th century Viking might. Anyhow, a 'paint' would usually consist of water, a pigment, a binder, and possibly, some fillers. The binder is something sticky that helps to hold the pigment onto whatever you're painting. The pigment is the colour, in the form of non-soluble particles. Stains and dyes on the other hand, have the colouring principle in soluble form. I think the distinction between a stain and a dye is that the stain is not permanently fixed to the object, and can theoretically be washed out, whereas the dye is fixed (usually by a mordant). With paint, the pigment sits on the surface of the object, held there by the binder. With stains/dyes, where the colour is soluble, it is absorbed into the surface (where it may become insoluble). With a porous wood, and a very finely ground pigment, it may be possible to 'colour' the wood by working the pigment into the wood surface, without the use of a binder. Binders used in paints: gum arabic, hide glue, fish glue, etc. Pigments: various earth pigments (ochre, terre verte, etc.) ground semi-precious stones (malachite, azurite, lapis, etc.) organic pigments - eg. flower of woad, soot, etc. organic lakes (organic dyes precipitated out of solution with alum and carbonates - eg. madder lake) For a piece of furniture from the area/time you're talking about, I'm not sure what sorts of stains/paints would be appropriate. If you use the berry juice as a stain, note that if the chair sits in the sun at all, the colour will likely fade quite quickly (with some notable exceptions berry dyes/stains are notoriously fugitive). For a piece of furniture, they might have used stains that don't work as dyes, since they would not have to worry about having to throw it in the wash. You'd have to do some research to find out specifically which organic/inorganic pigments/dyes/stains would have been in general use for furniture in the time/place you are interested in. A few may be poisonous, but there should be plenty that aren't. Hopefully, someone else will be able to give you a better answer. Rick/Balderik From: powers at brain.cis.ohio-state.edu (william thomas powers) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Medieval Paints Date: 3 Jun 1996 16:55:22 -0400 Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science When did linseed oil start being used as a medium for carrying the pigment? I would think that many of the paint pigments used for illumination would also work on wood with a linseed oil binder----However they might be too expensive for mere furniture. I would try the earth pigments If I couldn't get a better lead from reading "Divers Arts" by Theophilus, circal 1120A.D. wilelm the smith Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 21:18:49 -0400 (EDT) From: EowynA at aol.com To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: milk & honey in paint There was a question from Brid about the use of milk and honey in paint. Yes, both were used. Milk paints were/are casein paint. A bit of honey is used to make things sticky, such as pigments. Egg tempera (NOT tempura, another food altogether) is another kind of paint using food, too. Garlic juice, fresh bread, vinegar, potatoes, and gelatin all have their uses. Many painting materials of the Middle Ages and Renaissance are available in the well-stocked kitchen. By the way, I just picked up a wonderful book on how to paint and draw like the Old Masters, including our period. It does not tell you how to draw. There's lots of entertaining information about how to accurately copy artworks of our period by using the same materials and techniques. He also has a rough time line on when various items came into use (e.g., 1270 - First Italian papers (Fabriano), 1496 - First English papers) etc. It was published this year, and is only available in hard-back so far (I had a long plane ride ahead of me, so I splurged) -- _The Art Forger's Handbook_ by Eric Hebborn. Published by the Overlook Press, Woodstock and New York, ISBM 0-87951-767-0 The illos in the book of his work are carefully titled things like "Eric Hebborn, _The Mystic Marriage of St Catherine of Alexandria_, after Luca Cambiaso (1527-85) " He also talks about legal matters, and when to keep your mouth shut. He apparently made a reasonable living at art forgery. The cover blurb says he died in January, 1996 "under mysterious circumstances." Baroness Eowyn Amberdrake, O.L. , O. Pel. Caid Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 10:32:09 -0600 From: Dennis and/or Dory Grace To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Egg Tempera, etc. Gianetta writes: >I'm doing some late Italian trompe l'oeil work, and the backgrounds are >solid color. I've had a lot of trouble getting the pigment to go on >solidly for large areas -- either with glare or yolk as the medium. My >next experiment is going to be using it like watercolor -- with just gum >arabic and water, and see how I do. So far, my only successs has been >multiple layers of drybrush type painting, and this builds up too much >pigment, and is hell on the parchment for warping. Any other experience or >advice out there? Gouache poses similar problems, but if you're working with a small enough area you can do a saturated wash. What you do is keep the surface that you're painting entirely wet. You can load your brush heavily, drop it onto your wet surface, move the pigment around to smooth/even it out, and repeat until you have the hue you want. If the surface area you're working on gets a bit too much water built up, have some tissue ready and touch a corner or an edge to the wetter spots and wick up the excess water. This all can take a bit of time of futzing about, and obviously your drying time will be longer, but you can get some pretty consistent surfaces. If you don't like the idea of working that wetly, you might try masking and pouncing/stippling or masking and spraying. Paint masking around where you don't want the paint to be, see that your paint is of a fairly stiff consistency, then pounce it on similar to how you would do a stencil (come to think of it, instead of painting on the mask, you could just cut and lay a stencil if the design isn't too complicated). To do spraying you don't need an airbrush--they make a hinged, open-elbow-like metal straw-like tube thingy (sorry, don't remember what it's called--if you're near a real art-supply or ceramics shop, they should know what you're talking about) where you dip one end in your paint, and blow through the other end/top straw causing an upward draw through the bottom straw and spraying the paint out. I know that this method has been around a long time; how commonly used in period, I have no idea, though I've never seen any reference to it in manuscript painting. Anyway, hope something above helps. I'm interested in hearing other suggestions/solutions as well. Aquilanne Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 08:48:47 -0800 From: Brett and Karen Williams To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Egg Tempera, etc. Jen Rosen wrote: > I'm doing some late Italian trompe l'oeil work, and the backgrounds are > solid color. I've had a lot of trouble getting the pigment to go on > solidly for large areas -- either with glare or yolk as the medium. My > next experiment is going to be using it like watercolor -- with just gum > arabic and water, and see how I do. If the solid color background is the effect you want rather than the watercolor wash, what about 'backing' the background of your painting with a few very thin layers of built-up gesso? Gesso can also be sanded with a very fine piece of sandpaper to provide a very silky 'tooth' to its surface. Takes paint wonderfully. I suggest the layered approach deliberately. If one waits until each layer of gesso film is completely dry in between coats, then there's less of a chance of buckling or warping. It's also great for those period 3-D raised effects seen under gold leaf-- and gesso is exactly what was used for _that_ effect. ciorstan Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 16:36:35 -0500 (EST) From: Carol Thomas To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Guoache Paints >> I do have a tendency (which I've been working VERY hard to break) of >> reaching for the wrong cup and drinking my paint water instead of my >> coffee/milk/Surge/etc. >My lady, please break that habit immediately. Please get containers for your water that are some weird shape, so that your hand will know immediately it has grabbed the wrong thing! My illumination Laurel friend has told me, but I forget which period color is ground arsenic oxide... Lady Carllein Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:53:11 -0600 From: Roberta R Comstock To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: painting On Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:43:44 EST writes: >i have mostly been doing oil painting .. >i am interested to learn about the gouoche. What exactly is it? > >thanks mickey Gouache is a water based opaque style of painting in which the pigments are generally bound by a vegetable gum (such as gum arabic). It is closely related to tempera. Hertha Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:11:03 -0500 From: Carol Thomas To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: hello There are some wonderful books on the art techniques of the medieval period, such as Materials and Techniques of Medieval Painting ISBN 0-486-20327-1. Lady Carllein Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:30:38 -0500 From: Debra Kozak To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Definitive painting form of the Middle Ages, was RE: hello Good answer, Gawain! Frescos and altarpieces (easel painting) were the painting forms more readily available to the masses. Churches, chapels, etc., were decorated with both these art forms so that all could view the "word of God" whether literate or not. Alterpieces were an especially dominant art form. Paintings on panels illustrated Christian dogma and stories throughout Europe and Scandinavia. Some were commissioned by the Church...some by royalty or wealthy patrons who had their likenesses added to the paintings just as they did in manuscripts. For those who are interested in how prevalent panel painting was in the middle ages (as opposed to Renaissance painting that is more widely documented), I have listed a few good books to further your knowledge. North-European Panel Paintings by Christa Grossinger Medieval Craftsmen: Painters by Paul Binski Painting in Europe 800-1200 by C. R. Dodwell Painting in Britain: The Middle Ages by Margaret Rickert Byzantine and Early Medieval Painting by Manolis Chatzidakis and Andre' Grabar As far as a particular art form "defining the period", I don't believe that there is such an animal. All the various art forms practiced during the middle ages "define the period". I am not willing to say that illumination was more important than alterpieces that were more important than frescos that were more important than the architecture that was more important than the sculpture, etc. Calligraphy and illumination has a "job" in Society. We especially study these arts due to the fact they are critical to our award system, i.e., scrolls. There will always be a need for scribes. Other fine-art forms such as easel painting, frescos, and sculpture, have not yet found their niche in SCA. Therefore, few study and practice them. This is what I, and a growing group of other gentles, hope to change. We do not wish to usurp the position illumination and calligraphy hold in Society (I am a scribe, also.). We do, however, want to include other fine-art forms. Berkana Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:18:42 EST From: To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: clam shells << Any idea what I can do with a 5 gallon bucket full of [whole] clam shells?? >> Use them/sell them/give them away as paint cups. That idea of using shells to hold paint is shown in many medieval illuminationa. Ingvild From: Coblaith Mhuimhneach Date: Thu Sep 18, 2003 12:40:40 AM US/Central To: Barony of Bryn Gwlad List Subject: [Bryn-gwlad] period paints I'm looking for local sources for period or period-looking paints, for use in decorating wooden objects. I know that Eco-Wise carries milk paint , but you can't buy less than a pint. I was hoping for some smaller quantities of those colors of which I need only a few strokes' worth. (Maybe artists' caseins in tubes--those would work, wouldn't they?) And I'd really prefer something closer to the north edge of Austin, where we live. I don't know much about period paints, by the way, so would welcome suggestions as well as sources. Our personae are Gaelic and Norse and live in Munster between 850 and 950, so early period ideas are best, but the biggest issue is just having our things look "believably medieval". Coblaith From: Otter <0tter at earthlink.net> Date: Thu Sep 18, 2003 5:47:42 PM US/Central To: Barony of Bryn Gwlad Subject: Re: [Bryn-gwlad] period paints FY - be aware that "white" paint already as has a ton of pigment in it, so often times it is best to not use a white paint & add pigment, because you will need to add a lot as well as additional liquid to match the base liquid to get good colours. It is better to use a recipe for the base/binder & then add pigments. There are lots of resources for creating period paints in most libraries. Warning...be careful handling pigments, some are made from dangerous materials and in the case of dry pigments can be very unhealthy to breathe. Wear a mask & protect eyes & skin when handling them. Otter From: jay yeates Date: Tue Sep 23, 2003 1:48:35 PM US/Central To: 'Barony of Bryn Gwlad' Subject: RE: [Bryn-gwlad] period paints from the collections: Fine Woodworking #91, December 1991 p62-65: Milk Paint (history, how to apply, formulaes to make) 'wolf ... complete collections of Fine Woodworking & Homebuilding - priceless references From: jpmiaou at aol.comedy (JPmiaou) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Date: 25 Mar 2004 03:30:16 GMT Subject: Re: SCA period paints and pigments for FURNITURE Quoth Alban: >I've always wondered something. What is there about tempera that keeps the >egg from spoiling and smelling bad? Ditto, for milk paint? I believe the stink of a rotten egg results from a lack of air inside the shell, and similarly, milk goes stinky when it's enclosed. When you use egg yolks or milk as paint, you form a thin layer that's exposed to lots of air, so the stuff dries long before it gets a chance to spoil. Julia From: Gretchen Beck Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: SCA period paints and pigments for FURNITURE Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:11:02 -0500 Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA My I recommend: Cennini, Cennino d'Andrea. The Craftsman's Handbook: "Il Libro dell' Arte", Cennino d' Andrea Cennini, Translated by Daniel V. Thompson, Jr. New York: Dover. 1954 ISBN: 048620054X Cennini contains some information on finishing, primarily from the perspective of an artist who may be called upon to paint a box or some interior woodwork. His methods are similar to those use for panel painting i.e.; several coats of gesso over the wood to form a ground with the decoration applied in egg tempera. toodles, margaret --On Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:05 PM -0800 Kimberly Sargen wrote: > I'm going to attempt to paint our new feast box with something other than > latex paint. > > I had been considering milk paint, since it seemed a good choice for wear > and at least a semblance of "period" finish, but I got curious and started > looking for medieval paints... Given that, thus far, all I've found is > info on making your own tempera paints (with egg, which means a whole lot > of eggs to paint a feast box this size with even a base coat), I'm > wondering what suggestions and other info may be floating about out > there... > > Veronica di Lugano From: "minosgallery" Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: SCA period paints and pigments for FURNITURE Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:40:14 GMT Organization: RoadRunner - Central Florida "Slaine" wrote > I have also read that oil based paints were used for furniture. Oil > will wear a lot better than tempera. Make sure you don't put it on too > thick or it will take forever to dry. It will be very different from > fine art oil painting. > > Egg for tempera goes a lot farther than you might think. I was > surprized to learn that Thomas Hart Benton "only" needed 60 dozen eggs > to paint an entire mural in the Missouri State Capital building. It's > huge! > > Slaine I don't know what era you are trying to adhere to, but many modern oil paints are still made in the exact same way as they were 400-500-- years ago, ie Old Holland, which is stone ground minerals in oil binders - with "recipies" literally unchanged since the modern company was founded in 1664 - with some of the recipies being, of course, being older . The only thing you don't find is blues from lapiz lazulis (as used by painters such as Jan Van Eyk). But all the same cobalts ochres cadmiums, ect. Also brands such as Rembrant, Blockx (modern company founded in the 1920s which still uses stone ground pigments) and others. Old Holland even has pre-mided Italianate Venetian earths in tubes, along with various types of varnishes. I buy from Jerry's Artarama -- good prices on sale items, great selection of varnishes. and you can also get the pigments and completely mix your own paints. A good painting medium for high use items: 1 part Damar varnish to 2 parts linseed oil (or stand oil) to 5 parts turpentine with two drops of Japan Dryer. Medium gloss finish, very durable, dries to rework in about four hours, dries for use in two days. Lauren a painter From: Hillary Greenslade Date: June 23, 2005 12:50:32 PM CDT To: ansteorra Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] need paintmaking help From: Stefan li Rous > Greetings Stephanie, > Are you sure that you aren't thinking of oak galls? These are balls > formed by the oak tree when it is bitten/invaded by certain bugs as a > defense. These galls are high in tannic acid. You can find out how to > use these to make ink in this file in the SCRIBAL ARTS section of the > Florilegium: Nope, for use as a medium in painting she's thinking of 'ox gall' - essentially the bile of an ox. A modern source said it was taken from the gall bladder of a cow, though historically it probably would be an oxen. If the class had been about inks, then oak gall's would have been a consideration, as oak galls can be made into ink. Some general terms for items (binders, mediums, etc) used in scribal techniques: * Oak Gall - ink derived from the galls (growths on trees cause by insect attacks) of an oak tree. * Ox Gall - wetting agent for paints, also used in paper marbelling to increase paint flow. * Glair - a binder and sealant, made from residue of whipped egg whites * Tempera - a binder, egg yolks mixed with paint * Gum arabic - sap from an acacia tree, a binder to mix with pigments for paints. * Gum ammoniac - a size; adhesive, used to attach gold leafing to the illumination; of the ammoniac plant * gesso - a size; slaked plaster and a binder, used for raised gilding with metal leaf. * pounce - A substance like chalk, ash, powdered bone, or pumice, rubbed into a writing surface * gum sandarac - A vegetable secretion of trees, the gum of the Tetraclinis articulata of NW Africa. used like pounce to prime paper for a writing surface. Cheers, Hillary Editec by Mark S. Harris painting-msg Page 24 of 24