p-asbestos-msg - 1/17/10 Period use of asbestos. NOTE: See also the files: p-petroleum-msg, firestarting-msg, Fire-Starting-art, tablecloths-msg, mining-msg, burials-msg, textiles-msg, weaving-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 00:24:06 +1300 (NZDT) From: "Zane R. V. Bruce" Subject: Re: [Lochac] So when do we stop being what we are? To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list" John Colwell wrote: <<< Bad Laurel!, Asbestos isn't period. gryn >>> Eh? Asbestos is perfectly period. Rare, but period. It's mentioned by Strabo, Pliny and Marco Polo, apparently. Charlemagne is reputed to have had a table cloth made of it, and it was used for 'eternal' lantern wicks in ancient Greece. It was mined in ancient Greece, China and India, and has apparently been found in archaeological contexts from Egypt to Scandinavia. Most of the references immediately googlable are a bit tertiary, but it looks like it may have been found in the medieval period as both cloth and filling for armor padding. Iarnulfr. Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 00:39:25 +1300 From: Chris de Lisle Subject: Re: [Lochac] So when do we stop being what we are? To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list" <<< Asbestos is perfectly period. Rare, but period. It's mentioned by Strabo, Pliny and Marco Polo, apparently. Charlemagne is reputed to have had a table cloth made of it. >>> In case anyone is wondering why, as I was, one would make a tablecloth out of asbestos; apparently it is so the host can throw it in the fire to clean off crumbs and mess rather than clean it properly (Because asbestos doesn't burn). Doing this with napkins is mentioned in both Strabo and Pliny, as Iarnulfr says. The tablecloth story apparently only dates to the eighteenth century, however. Ioannes Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 22:54:44 +1100 From: Ian Whitchurch Subject: Re: [Lochac] So when do we stop being what we are? To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list" Pliny the Elder, book 19 CHAP. 4.--LINEN MADE OF ASBESTOS. There has been invented also a kind of linen which is incombustible by flame. It is generally known as "live"1 linen, and I have seen, before now, napkins2 that were made of it [p. 4137] thrown into a blazing fire, in the room where the guests were at table, and after the stains were burnt out, come forth from the flames whiter and cleaner than they could possibly have been rendered by the aid of water. It is from this material that the corpse-cloths of monarchs are made, to ensure the separation of the ashes of the body from those of the pile. This substance grows3 in the deserts of India,4 scorched by the burning rays of the sun: here, where no rain is ever known to fall, and amid multitudes of deadly serpents, it becomes habituated to resist the action of fire. Rarely to be found, it presents considerable difficulties in weaving it into a tissue, in consequence of its shortness; its colour is naturally red, and it only becomes white through the agency of fire. By those who find it, it is sold at prices equal to those given for the finest pearls; by the Greeks it is called "asbestinon,"5 a name which indicates its peculiar properties. Anaxila?s6 makes a statement to the effect that if a tree is surrounded with linen made of this substance, the noise of the blows given by the axe will be deadened thereby, and that the tree may be cut down without their being heard. For these qualities it is that this linen occupies the very highest rank among all the kinds that are known. http://old.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0137&query=head%3D%231153 Anton Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 19:30:57 +0700 From: JL Badgley Subject: [Lochac] Asbestos in period To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list" On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Wakeline wrote: John Colwell wrote: << Bad Laurel!, Asbestos isn't period. >> <<< It most certainly is! I believe that the Romans already knew it was bad for the lungs. >>> "Salamander" cloth, was made of asbestos fibers, I believe. Marco Polo mentions it being mined (regardless of how you view Polo's itinerary and whether he visited places, his descriptions are good enough that we can say *someone* knew about it). Apparently (according to the notes in the Yule-Cordier version) there was a cloth given to the Vatican that had the properties of being put in a fire and coming out clean--apparently woven of asbestos. -Ii Katsumori Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 04:56:02 +0800 (WST) From: jtstewart at westnet.com.au Subject: [Lochac] Asbestos Re: So when do we stop being what we are? To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list" Apparently they did have it and they did use it from ancient Greek and Roman times. By our period it was used as insulation in suits of armour. So, much as it pains me to say, fireproof underclothes for fighters is actually period. I would advise against using it though. There was also Charlemagne's famous fire proof tablecloth amongst other items. http://www.unrv.com/economy/asbestos.php John of the Hills Edited by Mark S. Harris p-asbestos-msg Page 3 of 3