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p-asbestos-msg - 1/17/10

 

Period use of asbestos.

 

NOTE: See also the files: p-petroleum-msg, firestarting-msg, Fire-Starting-art, tablecloths-msg, mining-msg, burials-msg, textiles-msg, weaving-msg.

 

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NOTICE -

 

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

 

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

 

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

 

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

 

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

 

Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                          Stefan at florilegium.org

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Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 00:24:06 +1300 (NZDT)

From: "Zane R. V. Bruce" <zane at paradise.gen.nz>

Subject: Re: [Lochac] So when do we stop being what we are?

To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"

        <lochac at lochac.sca.org>

 

John Colwell wrote:

<<< Bad Laurel!, Asbestos isn't period.

gryn >>>

 

Eh?

 

Asbestos is perfectly period.  Rare, but period.  It's mentioned by

Strabo, Pliny and Marco Polo, apparently.  Charlemagne is reputed to have

had a table cloth made of it, and it was used for 'eternal' lantern wicks

in ancient Greece.  It was mined in ancient Greece, China and India, and

has apparently been found in archaeological contexts from Egypt to

Scandinavia.

 

Most of the references immediately googlable are a bit tertiary, but it

looks like it may have been found in the medieval period as both cloth and

filling for armor padding.

 

Iarnulfr.

 

 

Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 00:39:25 +1300

From: Chris de Lisle <cmdelisle at gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Lochac] So when do we stop being what we are?

To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"

        <lochac at lochac.sca.org>

 

<<< Asbestos is perfectly period.  Rare, but period.  It's mentioned by

Strabo, Pliny and Marco Polo, apparently.  Charlemagne is reputed to have

had a table cloth made of it. >>>

 

In case anyone is wondering why, as I was, one would make a tablecloth out

of asbestos; apparently it is so the host can throw it in the fire to clean

off crumbs and mess rather than clean it properly (Because asbestos doesn't

burn). Doing this with napkins is mentioned in both Strabo and Pliny, as

Iarnulfr says.

 

The tablecloth story apparently only dates to the eighteenth century,

however.

 

Ioannes

 

 

Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 22:54:44 +1100

From: Ian Whitchurch <ian.whitchurch at gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Lochac] So when do we stop being what we are?

To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"

        <lochac at lochac.sca.org>

 

Pliny the Elder, book 19

 

CHAP. 4.--LINEN MADE OF ASBESTOS.

 

There has been invented also a kind of linen which is incombustible by

flame. It is generally known as "live"1 linen, and I have seen, before

now, napkins2 that were made of it [p. 4137] thrown into a blazing

fire, in the room where the guests were at table, and after the stains

were burnt out, come forth from the flames whiter and cleaner than

they could possibly have been rendered by the aid of water. It is from

this material that the corpse-cloths of monarchs are made, to ensure

the separation of the ashes of the body from those of the pile. This

substance grows3 in the deserts of India,4 scorched by the burning

rays of the sun: here, where no rain is ever known to fall, and amid

multitudes of deadly serpents, it becomes habituated to resist the

action of fire. Rarely to be found, it presents considerable

difficulties in weaving it into a tissue, in consequence of its

shortness; its colour is naturally red, and it only becomes white

through the agency of fire. By those who find it, it is sold at prices

equal to those given for the finest pearls; by the Greeks it is called

"asbestinon,"5 a name which indicates its peculiar properties.

Anaxila?s6 makes a statement to the effect that if a tree is

surrounded with linen made of this substance, the noise of the blows

given by the axe will be deadened thereby, and that the tree may be

cut down without their being heard. For these qualities it is that

this linen occupies the very highest rank among all the kinds that are

known.

 

http://old.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0137&;query=head%3D%231153

 

Anton

 

 

Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 19:30:57 +0700

From: JL Badgley <tatsushu at gmail.com>

Subject: [Lochac] Asbestos in period

To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"

        <lochac at lochac.sca.org>

 

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Wakeline <chollitt at ieee.org> wrote:

John Colwell wrote:

<< Bad Laurel!, Asbestos isn't period. >>

 

<<< It most certainly is! I believe that the Romans already knew it was bad for

the lungs. >>>

 

"Salamander" cloth, was made of asbestos fibers, I believe.  Marco

Polo mentions it being mined (regardless of how you view Polo's

itinerary and whether he visited places, his descriptions are good

enough that we can say *someone* knew about it). Apparently

(according to the notes in the Yule-Cordier version) there was a cloth

given to the Vatican that had the properties of being put in a fire

and coming out clean--apparently woven of asbestos.

 

-Ii Katsumori

 

 

Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 04:56:02 +0800 (WST)

From: jtstewart at westnet.com.au

Subject: [Lochac] Asbestos Re:  So when do we stop being what we are?

To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"

        <lochac at lochac.sca.org>

 

Apparently they did have it and they did use it from ancient Greek and Roman times. By our period it was used as insulation in suits of armour. So, much as it pains me to say, fireproof underclothes for fighters is actually period. I would advise against using it though.

 

There was also Charlemagne's famous fire proof tablecloth amongst other items.

http://www.unrv.com/economy/asbestos.php

 

John of the Hills

 

<the end>



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