leather-msg - 10/13/13

Working with leather. General info on leather.

NOTE: See also the files: lea-tooling-msg, lea-tanning-msg, lea-bladders-msg, leather-dyeing-msg, butchering-msg, parchment-msg.

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From: dew at psuecl.bitnet (Baron Dur, Dark Horde, SCA)
Date: 15 Apr 90 02:43:08 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Lab, Pennsylvania State University

jdnicoll at watyew.waterloo.edu (Brian or James) writes:
>   Greetings unto the Rialto from Konrad Matthias Jager
>
>       Gentles, I am looking for some information on the preparation of Cour
> Boulli (sp?), also known as hardened leather. I am aware of two methods of
> hardening leather; the first is boiling the leather in wax. I have successfully
> used this method to create a coat of scale armour. The second method I have
> seen mentioned is to boil the leather in water with salt and alum.
>
>       Does anyone in the Rialto have practical experience with the second
> method? If so, do you have any advice vis-a-vis the porpotions of salt and alum
> to water, and the length of time to boil the leather?

In the tanning of hides, we use salts (particularly alum) to cause the
folicles around the hairs of the hide to constrict.  This is important if you
want to keep the hair on the hide.

For those of you with period pavilions, alum is also used as a non-toxic fire
retardant for fabric.  Before you apply your favorite waterproofing, soak the
fabric in a strong solution of alum and let dry.  This method was also used to
fireproof sails on ships of war.

Dur the Nasty, Baron of Grey Matter


From:    Colin The Blackheart 
To:      All 
08-Jul-90 01:20am
Subject: leather

Can't remember who asked about leather, but here's a tip from Haagen, a friend
of mine in Southkeype who's too busy making the money to move away to ge to
events. . . blah, typed that all in one breath!

Get a couple of stainless steel salad bowls, each the same size (spun domes
work OK for this, but rust).  Soak your leather as before, but when it gets to
that soggy cardboard consistency, put it in between those domes, and put a
couple of bricks on top.  Let it sit for a couple of days (preferably a week).
Remove bricks and bowls and walla! Perfect hemispherical (or whatever) shape 
in the leather, perfect for elbows and knees. 
 
Colin  
 

From: cav at bmerh364.BNR.CA (Rick Cavasin)
Date: 28 Oct 91 20:57:54 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.

Greetings unto people of the rialto:    

Is suede period?  Strictly speaking probably not, in the
sense that period leathers that might have looked like
suede would not have been produced in the same way, or
for the same reason.  Modern suede is produced from the
'split' (pelt is passed through a band knife machine that
splits it into two layers) which does not have the original
grain surface of the leather.  It is typically chrome tanned
(not a period tannage).  While the technology to split a 
pelt existed in period (highly skilled manual operation
employed in producing some parchments), I have seen no
references to it having been done in leather production.
I would guess that this is due to the limited utility of suede.
Leather is useful because of it's beauty and durability.
Both these virtues are compromised in the removal of the grain
surface.  The period tanner would probably have seen little
advantage in devoting a large amount of work to obtain an
inferior (and therefore less marketable) product.  With modern,
highly mechanized tanneries, making maximum use of the raw
materials (pelts) in producing lightweight fashion/garment
leathers in the priority.  The period exception to this argument
would be oil-tanned wash leathers and buff leathers (NOTE: what
tandy's calls oil-tanned leather is NOT in fact, oil-tanned).   
In producing these leathers, the grain is scraped away (called
'frizzing') to facilitate penetration of oils from both sides
of the pelt.  These leathers would look somewhat like suede,
but would exhibit different properties (a modern chamois is
an oil tanned split).  I personally prefer full grain leathers,
but would not regard the use of suede as horrendously un-period.
What I find more disturbing is the prevelence of the colour
black.  While beer-black was certainly a popular leather dye
in period, red was much more highly prized .  Sometimes SCA
events put me in mind of biker-hell.

Of course, almost all modern leathers are, to varying degrees,
non-period.

Regards,
Balderik (of no fixed address)


From: ewright at convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Date: 28 Oct 91 23:29:55 GMT
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA

cav at bmerh364.BNR.CA (Rick Cavasin) writes:

>Is suede period?  Strictly speaking probably not, in the
>sense that period leathers that might have looked like
>suede would not have been produced in the same way, or
>for the same reason.  Modern suede is produced from the
>'split' (pelt is passed through a band knife machine that
>splits it into two layers) which does not have the original
>grain surface of the leather.  

That is one way seude can be made, but not the only way.

Tanning a hide produces a type of leather called "full grain."
This is the type of leather usually used for carving.  This
leather is then sanded to produce "suede."  Coating the leather
to fill in the roughness produces "top grain," the type of 
leather used to make (non-suede) jackets, etc. (Source: The
Leather Warehouse)  

And, yes, suede is period.  If you look in Janet Arnold's "Patterns
of Fashion (Vol. 3)," you will find several good examples of suede
used in period documents.


From: cav at bmerh364.BNR.CA (Rick Cavasin)
Date: 11 Dec 91 13:49:20 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.

Unto Duke Sir Cariadoc does Lord Balderik sent his
greetings.  Below I have given a brief note on cuir
boulli I once prepared as a Rialto posting but never
got around to posting until the thread had petered out.
I hope it may be of some use.  If you would like more
info, feel free to contact me via the Rialto (I do not
have external E-mail).            

According to Waterer (Leather Craftmanship, Leather and the
Warrior, etc.), the cuir boulli effect is obtained when 
vegetable tanned leather is dried at elevated temperatures.  
It is a chemical reaction which converts the leather    
into something more closely resembling plastic (I forget the 
details).  It will only occur with vegetable tanned 
leather (the stuff used for tooling leather).
The temperature is critical: too low and no hardening occurs, 
too high and the leather becomes brittle.
R. Reid (or was it Reed? in his book Ancient Skins, Parchments,
and Leathers) concurrs, adding that it was also achieved by
briefly (!) dipping the leather in boiling water for between
20 and 120 sec.  I have yet to experiment with this technique.
The application of wax is not necessary, although it enhances 
the effect by increasing the density of the leather and 
limiting the softening that can occur when the leather 
is dampened (the use of a wax hardener as mentioned in a 
previous posting will achieve a similar effect no doubt!). 
The wax also makes the leather tougher.  I do not recall either
Waterer or Reed making mention of the use of wax for cuir boulli
armour, but I would have to check.

I made cuir boulli arm harness' as follows:
1) cut out individual lames from leather
2) select forms on which leather will be dried :        
      -lames were tied onto coffee cans with string 
       (don't use tape!!!)
      -vambraces were tied onto newspapers which were rolled 
       up into roughly conical shapes   
3) in order to determine the optimum temperature, the scrap 
   bits of leather were used to experiment with different 
   oven settings (soak piece of leather in water until 
   saturated, dry in oven, check result)
4) when the correct setting for the oven in question is 
   determined, the individual armour components (not yet 
   assembled) are soaked in water until saturated, and
   then tied firmly to their respective forms (note that 
   if you are ambitious you can carve positive and negative 
   molds in order to impress decorations in relief
   on the armour - very period! - see Waterer).
5) place forms in oven and prop door open a crack to let 
   the moisture escape.
6) melt some parafin wax (beeswax can be used but it is 
   expensive and will smell like honey when your 
   armour is in the sun for a while) in a double boiler
   (a bowl sitting in a pot of boiling water works).
7) when the pieces are dry and hardened, remove them from 
   the forms (careful of heat) and brush on the molten 
   wax with a basting brush or some such implement.
   Pieces can be returned to the oven (placed on a cookie 
   sheet or some such) in order to allow the wax 
   to permiate the leather.  The oven should be hot 
   enough to melt the wax, but NOT hot enough to burn it!  
   EXERCISE DUE CAUTION!
   SEE INSTRUCTIONS IN EARLIER POSTINGS ON WAXING ARMOUR.
8) When the pieces are hardened and waxed, any rivet holes 
   needed (unless prepunched) can be drilled.  
   Edges can be filed/sanded.  

An old fashioned (period?) method for hardening shoe 
soles (if they are made of vegetable tanned leather) 
is to soak and HAMMER them.  The compression/heat of hammering
probably produces an effect analagous to that of cuir boulli.  
It has the advantage of stretching and consolidating the 
leather to limit changes in the sole's shape once the 
shoe starts being worn.  Given the similarities between the 
two applications, I thought it natural to wax the 
soles of my boots in the same way as my armour.  The soles get
harder, tougher, and less succeptable to dampness.  
They can however be very slippery the first time you wear 
them so it is best to go out on the pavement and scuff them
up a bit before dancing on a hardwood floor!

Hope this helps,
Balderick (of pathless wastes fame)


Re: Patent Leather
Date: 4 Feb 92 
From: cav at bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.

Unto the good people of the Rialto does Balderik
send his greetings.

In the article 'Leather Conservation Terminology'
from Leather Conservation News Vol.4 1984 (p.6-15),
we find the definition:

PATENT LEATHER  Cattle or horse hide leather,
one side of which (usually the flesh) is covered 
with a flexible waterproof film having a lustrous
and highly glazed surface produced by successive
coats of daubs, varnishes and lacquers some of which
may be pigmented.  These were formerly based on 
boiled linseed oil ('Japanning') but some or all
may now consist partly or entirely of plasticised
nitrocellulose and/or synthetic resin.  Originally
made only in black and white, colours are now 
available.  How long the term 'patent' has been
applied to this kind of leather is not known.
Japanned horse winkers were used in France before
the revolution, but the earliest English patent
so far traced that appears to have reference to 
this process is dated 1799 followed by one in 1801.

Patent leather would not be my first choice but
that is mostly my personal preference.  While
it may not be 'period' in a strict sense,
there may be period leathers that are similar
in appearance.  You should be commended for
going to the effort of making period footwear
(one article of garb that is often neglected).

Regards,
Balderik   


From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)
Subject: Re: Waxed Leather
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1993 03:59:41 GMT

Patrick Angus Flynn asks about waxed leather, and Magnus Moorley
responds:

"Making it is simple; get a big kettle, melt  some parrafin, dip the
leather, and bend your leather to the  desired shape immediately."

I would add:

1. Beeswax also works and, unlike paraffin, is period.

2. You can also do it in an oven at about 220 degrees, with the
melted wax in a baking pan or something similar.

3. While you can bend leather as described, it would be very
difficult to get any shape that involves stretching. My usual
technique involves first soaking the leather in water for many hours,
then shaping and stretching it to the desired shape, then letting it
dry out on some convenient form to keep the shape, then waxing it
when it is thoroughly dry. This way all the forming is being done
with cool, water soaked leather, not with hot, wax soaked leather.

4. More more detailed instructions, see my article on the subject in
T.I. a year or so back.

David/Cariadoc


From: pmw2c at csissun10.ee.Virginia.EDU (Paul Michael Wayner)
Subject: Re: Waxed Leather
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1993 04:13:49 GMT

jeff_witham at mercer.COM writes:
|> Patrick Angus Flynn enquireth:
|> 
|> >>What is the opinion of the populace of waxing leather for 
|> >>armor? Is it necessary? Is it a good idea? If so, how do I do 
|> >>it?
|>     
|> Waxed leather or Cuir bouilli <sp?> is a relatively inexpensive 
|> (but effective and authentic) type of armor.  Not only does this 
|> make the leather waterproof (and almost sweatproof), but it makes 
|> the leather much more rigid.  I'm going to make some this year.  
|> I like it better than regular leather since the leather can 
|> protect you better.  Making it is simple; get a big kettle, melt 
|> some parrafin, dip the leather, and bend your leather to the 
|> desired shape immediately.  I've been told that this can be done 
|> in the kitchen.  I wouldn't do it in _my_ kitchen, though. I 
|> think I'll go camping to do it, and make a party of the occasion. 

I have made Coir bouilli in my kitchen (I'm not
real picky :-) and have been very pleased with 
the results. Cuir bouilli has the properties of 
being light, and fairly rigid but not too rigid.
When armour is too rigid, like steel, you can get
armour bites. Armour bites are much less likely
with Coir bouilli. 

There are some things you need to be aware of 
though. 

#1 if the wax gets warm the leather gets
soft again. This is more of a problem with beeswax
than parafin, which has a higher melting point.

#2 you can use the warming to your advantage. If
your leather gets bent (which it invariably will)
you can heat it and bend it back into shape, no
problem!

				Conrad Hebenstorm


From: nusbache at epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Waxed Leather
Date: 3 Jul 93 11:38:46 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto - Wax on ... wax off

I had heard that a blend of beeswax (for resilience) and carnuba wax
(for hardness) made for the best hardener.

In my experience, the wax always had to go on hot leather, or it would
just sit on the surface.  If the leather is hot (only as hot as an
oven or dryer) vegetable tanned stuff, it will drink the wax right in.

Aryk


From: ross at chem.queensu.ca (Ross Dickson)
Subject: Re: Waxed Leather
Organization: Dept. of Chemistry, Queen's University
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1993 18:14:49 GMT

David / Cariadoc (ddfr at midway.uchicago.edu) writes:
>               ... first soaking the leather in water for many hours,
>then shaping and stretching it to the desired shape, then letting it
>dry out on some convenient form to keep the shape, then waxing it
>when it is thoroughly dry. 

I thought I should mention that the bit about waxing it WHEN IT IS
THOROUGHLY DRY is important.  Gaerhun made his first set of waxed
leather armour here a couple of years ago, and we discovered that one
of the pieces was a rather brittle in the center, and had the
appearance of a crystalline nature at the broken spot.  We deduced that
the center of the piece hadn't completely dried before it was waxed.

Angus / Ross


From: nusbache at epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Waxed Leather
Organization: University of Toronto - Wax on, wax off...
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1993 20:34:37 GMT

Another safe way to melt wax:  microwave oven.

Aryk


From: cav at bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Subject: Re: Waxed Leather
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 16:47:00 GMT

Greetings from Balderik:
Here's some info I posted LOOONNNGGG time ago on making
cuirboulli armour:

According to Waterer (Leather Craftmanship, Leather and the
Warrior, etc.), the cuir boulli effect is obtained when 
vegetable tanned leather is dried at elevated temperatures.  
It is a chemical reaction which converts the leather	
into something more closely resembling plastic (I forget the 
details).  It will only occur with vegetable tanned 
leather (the stuff used for tooling leather).
The temperature is critical: too low and no hardening occurs, 
too high and the leather becomes brittle.
R. Reid (or was it Reed? in his book Ancient Skins, Parchments,
and Leathers) concurrs, adding that it was also achieved by
briefly (!) dipping the leather in boiling water for between
20 and 120 sec.  I have yet to experiment with this technique.
The application of wax is not necessary, although it enhances 
the effect by increasing the density of the leather and 
limiting the softening that can occur when the leather 
is dampened. 
The wax also makes the leather tougher.  I do not recall either
Waterer or Reed making mention of the use of wax for cuir boulli
armour, but I would have to check.

I made cuir boulli arm harness' as follows:
1) cut out individual lames from leather
2) select forms on which leather will be dried :	
      -lames were tied onto coffee cans with string 
       (don't use tape!!!)
      -vambraces were tied onto newspapers which were rolled 
       up into roughly conical shapes	
3) in order to determine the optimum temperature, the scrap 
   bits of leather were used to experiment with different 
   oven settings (soak piece of leather in water until 
   saturated, dry in oven, check result)
4) when the correct setting for the oven in question is 
   determined, the individual armour components (not yet 
   assembled) are soaked in water until saturated, and
   then tied firmly to their respective forms (note that 
   if you are ambitious you can carve positive and negative 
   molds in order to impress decorations in relief
   on the armour - see Waterer).
5) place forms in oven and prop door open a crack to let 
   the moisture escape.
6) melt some parafin wax (beeswax can be used but it is 
   expensive and will smell like honey when your 
   armour is in the sun for a while) in a double boiler
   (a bowl sitting in a pot of boiling water works).
7) when the pieces are dry and hardened, remove them from 
   the forms (careful of heat) and brush on the molten 
   wax with a basting brush or some such implement.
   Pieces can be returned to the oven (placed on a cookie 
   sheet or something similar to prevent wax dripping
   onto the heating element, etc.) in order to allow the wax 
   to permiate the leather.  The oven should be just hot 
   enough to melt the wax, but NOT hot enough to burn it!  
   EXERCISE DUE CAUTION!
   WAX IS FLAMMABLE! 
8) When the pieces are hardened and waxed, any rivet holes 
   needed (unless prepunched) can be drilled.  
   Edges can be filed/sanded.  

Balderick 


From: sherman at trln.lib.unc.edu (dennis r. sherman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Waxed Leather
Date: 6 Jul 1993 18:02:57 GMT
Organization: Triangle Research Libraries Network

Greetings to the Rialto from Robyyan.

Aryk says (about waxed leather):

>I had heard that a blend of beeswax (for resilience) and carnuba wax
>(for hardness) made for the best hardener.

Depending on the climate you live in and the conditions you normally 
fight under, you may not want to use hardeners in your wax.  If the 
temperature is sufficiently cool, the leather impregnated with 
hardened wax will crack.

I use a mix of 50/50 beeswax/paraffin.  If I never fought in 
temperatures under about 50 (F), I'd increase the proportion of 
paraffin so the leather would be harder at higher temperatures.
--
  Robyyan Torr d'Elandris  Kapellenberg, Windmaster's Hill  Atlantia
  Dennis R. Sherman  	         Triangle Research Libraries Network
  dennis_sherman at unc.edu       Univ. of North Carolina - Chapel Hill


From: pmw2c at csissun11.ee.Virginia.EDU (Paul Michael Wayner)
Subject: Re: Waxed Leather
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 18:40:26 GMT

cav at bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin) writes:
|> Greetings from Balderik,
|> 
gleason at scf16.scf.loral.com (Robert Gleason) writes:
|> |> 
|> |> I've noticed that the comments always say to use vegetable tanned leather.
|> |> Why not chrome tanned leather? What are the differences between the two
|> |> processes?
> 
|> The short answer is 'It don't work with Chrome tanned leather'. ..
|> You can bake/wax chrome tanned leather, but it won't undergo any dramatic
|> increase in rigidity (as far as I know).

Actually I have baked and waxed chrome tanned leather and it can increase
its rigidity dramatically. However, it also tends to become brittle if you make
it highly rigid, with the usual problems of breakage. Vegetable tanned
leather is definitely better.

				Conrad Hebenstorm


From: cav at bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Subject: Re: Waxed Leather
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 19:14:57 GMT

Thorr-kan, the White Minotaur, and Horde Father-Confessor writes:
|> 	After reading about the differences in vegetable and chromium tanned  
|> leather,  I have two questions.  Where does one go about getting vegetable  
|> tanned leather?   How heavy(thick) should the leather be?  

Vegetable tanned leather is a generic term for leathers that are 'tanned'
using various tannins extracted from some form of vegetable matter.  Today,
these are typically extracts from the bark of assorted tropical trees, although
oak tanned leather is still made.  Any leather supply store (eg. tandy's) will
have an assortment of chrome-tanned and vegetable tanned leathers.  Vegetable
tanned leather is the stuff that belts are usually made from, and is also
used for leather 'carving'.  Shoe 'sole' leather is typically a high quality
vegetable tanned leather that has already been hardened somewhat by compression.
It would be an excellent choice for armour, but can get expensive.
I'd try a shoemaker's supply store first (might be slightly cheaper than
Tandys).  As to how thick it should be, that depends on how much you want to
spend, how much abuse you expect it to take, how much protection you want, and
how much weight you want to carry.  Off the top of my head, I'd say that it's
not worth hardening anything lighter than a 10oz leather (this is the unit of
thickness used in the trade, it means 1 sq foot of the leather weighs 10 oz),
and you probably want it a fair bit thicker (up around 1/4" thick  for high
traffic areas - not sure what that is in oz).
Cheers, Balderik


From: Joyce Miller <jcmill at eagle.mit.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Leather Book Satchels
Date: 4 Jun 1993 21:27:03 GMT
Organization: WIBR

Steven Whitis wrote earlier:

>Subject: Leatherwork
>>He is looking for documentation on using what he called light relief
>work,
>>using rouphly 5 oz leather.  He's used some of this for bookcovers and is
>>interested in documentation on relief work, painting on the leather,
>>bookbinding in period, etc.  Can anyone recommend some good books or
>>sources?  He lives in a fairly small town, but should be able to use
>>interlibrary loan if needed.
>>
>>This is a case of trying to document what he's already doing, and I've
>>explained the problems associated with that.

I've found the article I posted about earlier; it's in _Archaeologia_,
Volume 12, page 70,  "Irish Book Satchels and Budgets".  It has some
photographs, as well.

Also, if he enjoys his craft, he'll just never be happy doing "reverse
documentation".  I used to do it, and I can't bear to look at those items
now, even though I put a great deal of work into them.  Steer him towards
_Archaeologia_, it's full of really neat things he just won't be able to
live without.

Joyce
jcmill at eagle.mit.edu


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: chamois and sarcenet
From: una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honur Horne-Jaruk)
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 94 08:13:42 EST

Greetings to Carol, and anybody else who wondered, from Honour Horne-Jaruk/
Alizaunde: 

	Chamois in period was leather from the Chamois goat, oil tanned, if
I remember correctly. What you have is almost certainly Chamois Flannel,
an extremely heavy cotton flannel napped to resemble Chamois. Cotton being
not native to 14th cent. ireland, it would HAVE to be imported. I can find
nothing, however, on cotton flannel that early; flannels were originally
wool. If you are comitted to the highest possible level of authenticity, 
your chamois would make a marvellous lining- the stuff was developed
as a less scratchy version of wool flannel, after all... One important
Problem- Chamois, like the leather it's named after, soaks up water like 
a sponge. Used as an outer layer, you either have a dry-weather-only cloak,
or you have to have the fabric made water resistant before sewing. (Many
dry-cleaners do Scotchgaurd (TM)  treatments.) Unfortunately, the treatment
will alter the lovely nappy finish; how much depends on which one you use.

	With thanks for your attention, I remain, yours in service to the
Society- (Friend) Honour Horne-Jaruk, KSA as Alizaunde, Demoiselle de Bregeuf.  


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: tbarnes at silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes)
Subject: Re: LEATHER WORK -Help Please-
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 1994 21:26:15 GMT

CLEWANDO at squid.stmarys.CA (8800807 LEWANDOWSKI CORINNE K) writes:
>    The references I already have are:  the two CA books on leather
>working, KNIVES and SCABBARDS (the glorious book on actual LONDON
>digs), and Tandy's Basic leatherworking book.
>
>    Any help is most gratefully appreciated. If I have any info in
>any field (pick anything I dabble lots) I am more than eager to pass
>on anything that may help.

	I'm still hunting for info on period leather dyes myself. 

	Here's another book

	Shoes and Pattens from Archeological Digs in London. 

	This is on shoe-making, but it gives a wealth of period
information on how period leather goods were sewn together and some of
the shoes have tooling on them. 

	Lothar 
>                            --- Elise ----
>  Lady Elise ferch Morgan ap Owen             Corinne Lewandowski
>  Barony of Ruantallan                        Halifax, Nova Scotia


From: vnend at nudity.uucp (David W. James)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: LEATHER WORK -Help Please-
Date: 2 Mar 1994 23:43:43 -0500
Organization: Acta non Verba, Skillman, NJ

dickerso at gomez.stortek.com writes:
)tbarnes at silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes) writes:
)>>    The references I already have are:  the two CA books on leather
)>>working, KNIVES and SCABBARDS (the glorious book on actual LONDON

)>	Shoes and Pattens from Archeological Digs in London. 

) Any ISBN numbers?

)Russell

	I'm resisting the temptation to just grab some books and give
you numbers...

Shoes and Pattens is the only one I have.  ISBN 0-11-290443-2

Kwellend-Njal
-- 
vnend%nudity.UUCP at Princeton.EDU  or vnend at Princeton.EDU if that doesn't work.


From: IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu (I. Marc Carlson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Leather (was historical use of leather)
Date: 16 Sep 1994 16:47:54 -0500

  <Marc Carlson  IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu>
  >II>After thinking about it, I can think of a number of historical 
      applications for leather, such as shield facings, where rawhide 
      might make more sense, but there is no indication in the texts I 
      can find.
      Has anyone done a study on this?
  
  <Fidonet:  Charly The Bastard 1:147/107>7
  cb>I haven't done 'studies', but I do know that rawhide changes tension
     radically with humidity and moisture, far more than tanned leather. This
     would tend to limit rawhide in a structural application.
  
  In what way does it change tension?
  
  BTW, to the person who suggested that Sheepskin was used for knife scabbards
  so that the oils could be protect the metal, as this does not match what I
  can find in the archeological texts, any sources would be helpful.
  
  From: bubba at adolf.ludd.luth.se (U.J|rgen \hman)
  >Friends of mine has made small round shields about 50-60 cm diameter
  >(that's around 20"-24" for you who doesn't use a metric scale) and covered
  >them with rawhide from a bull. They made some practical tests and studies.
  >The results???
  >Knifes didn't even cut or pierce them, and they REALLY tried to.
  >We talked about shooting at them with arrows but never did. Maybe next year.
  >Rawhide could be a good material to make armour of.
  
  From: gray at ibis.cs.umass.edu (Lyle Gray)
  >This may seem like a naive question to some, but what happens to rawhide when
  >it gets wet?  Doesn't it get soft and pliable?
  
  As a rule, you have to soak rawhide for some time to get it to soften at all,
  and quite some time to make it pliable.  When you stretch it while wet, it 
  shrinks as it dries.
  
  Finally from other information I have recieved, it would appear that since
  rawhide is more susceptable to rot than tanned leather, it might have been
  used for other things, like shield facings, and we wouldn't know.
  
  Also some sources suggest that different forms of raw, or undressed, or green,
  hides have different properties, although I have not been able to experiment
  with this yet.  It is suggested that buffalo hide when raw is in fact softer
  and more pliable than cow, which is why it was used for so much more by
  the Native Americans.
  
  Any further sources of information with regards to the historical use of
  rawhide and the properties or possibilities of _in situ_ "self tanning" would 
  be greatly appreciated.
  
  From: tom at ready.rsip.lsu.edu (Tom Smailus)
  >This is a two part question.  First, I'm in the process of making myself
  >some leather armour, reinforced with chain mail.  I was talking with 
  >someone in our local leather store, and they told me that there is some
  >method by which the leather is treated/cooked in a solution which will
  >make it very hard - more suited to use in battle - than if left untreated.
  >Does anyone know of such a method, and can you tell me what needs to be 
  >done? 
  
  From: RONDEAUB at ropt1.am.wyeth.COM (Ben Rondeau)
  >>One word of warning: do not imerse any leather into the (presumably
  >>hot) solution while the leather is cold.  I did this once with a
  >>lame for a pauldrin.  I got to watch it deep fry.  It came out
  >>looking like a piece of bacon.  Not something that was terribly
  >>usefull.
  >Interesting.  Anyone have any information as to how cuir bouli was
  >actually made in Period?  Perhaps stitching to a form, then boiling
  >in oil??  Any ideas?
  
  No boiling in oil AT ALL.  Oil is used to soften leather, and all boiling it
  has gotten me is a soft squishy mess better left undescribed and buried.
  
  There are four ways I have used to make hardened leather.
  
  The first is to soak in cold water (as long as you want to, but 15 minutes 
  	ought to do it) then form it and let it dry.  This may not seem all
          that great, but if you've seen a vambrace after it's been sweated into
  	after a summer, you know it can harden up quite a bit.
  	If you tool the leather while it is wet, you will make it even harder.
  
  The hotter the water you soak it in, the harder it will be when it dries.
  	However, each bit of leather has it's own point at which the water
   	is TOO hot, and will be cooked by it.
  	If this happens, your best bet is to keep it hot, and stretch it
  	out on a form and let it dry.  It becomes very hard and brittle,
          but that's the penalty for over ambition.
  
  If you take cold formed leather and while it is still on the form and pour 
  	REALLY hot water over it, letting it drain off (say fresh from a 
  	coffee maker), it will scald the surface of the leather and harden it.
  
  Baking the wet leather can make it even harder, say in an oven, but you run 
  	the risk of steam scalding it and making it shrink (I've done this
  	with bottles and it is *really* annoying.
  
  The other way to make leather hard is to take a piece that has been formed
  	previously, place it into an oven, and dry heat it to about 200 degrees.
  	Then take melted wax (bee's wax is tradition, but I have gotten just
  	as good results from melted candles).  Remember all the safety
  	precautions you learned in art class as a kid for melting wax because
  	it can be dangerous.  When the wax is hot, and the leather is hot,
  	take the leather out of the oven and paint the wax onto the leather
  	(which will then soak it right up).  Keep this up until the leather
  	cools enough to not absorb the wax any more.  Reheat the leather, and
  	repeat until you are satisfied that the leather won't absorb any more
  	wax (a good clue is that it's all the same color).  Then let it cool.
  	It will be extremely hard when it's done.
  
  Please Note that there is NO Evidence that I know of that Waxed Leather was
  used for anything other than some Elizabethan era bottles and cups.
  
  Diarmuit ua Dunn
     Marc C.                  "We're i-in cha-arge, We're i-in cha-arge"
     IMC at VAX2.UTULSA.EDU                      -- Yakko, Wakko & Dot
     LIB_IMC at VAX1.UTULSA.EDU                     "The Three Musketeers"
  


From: cav at bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Leather (was historical use of leather)
Date: 19 Sep 1994 11:03:47 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.

IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu (I. Marc Carlson) writes:  
|>   <Marc Carlson  IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu>
|>   >II>After thinking about it, I can think of a number of historical 
|>       applications for leather, such as shield facings, where rawhide 
|>       might make more sense, but there is no indication in the texts I 
|>       can find.
|>       Has anyone done a study on this?

Check _Leather_and_The_Warrior_ by J.W. Waterer (sorry no ISBN handy), he
mentions the use of rawhide for various things (remember that parchment is
rawhide).  The problem with rawhide is that it can become dimensionally
unstable if it becomes wet and is then dried.  Parchment/rawhide can generate
an impressive amount of tension when it dries (I've had goat and deer hides
warp and break the frames I use for parchment making).  Tanned hides are
much more stable, and are much less prone to rot.
   
|>   <Fidonet:  Charly The Bastard 1:147/107>7
|>   cb>I haven't done 'studies', but I do know that rawhide changes tension
|>      radically with humidity and moisture, far more than tanned leather. This
|>      would tend to limit rawhide in a structural application.
|>   
|>   In what way does it change tension?

A piece of rawhide, left to dry on it's own, will shrivel up to become tough,
hard, horny, and semitransparent.  Usually, in making rawhide/parchment, it is
customary to stretch it on some sort of frame so that it dries into a flat sheet.
If it is subsequently soaked in water, and allowed to dry without tension, it
will shrivel up more or less like a fresh piece of rawhide.  And parchment/rawhide
can generate an aweful lot of tension when it's trying to shrivel up.


|>   From: gray at ibis.cs.umass.edu (Lyle Gray)
|>   >This may seem like a naive question to some, but what happens to rawhide when
|>   >it gets wet?  Doesn't it get soft and pliable?
|>   
|>   As a rule, you have to soak rawhide for some time to get it to soften at all,
|>   and quite some time to make it pliable.  When you stretch it while wet, it 
|>   shrinks as it dries.

The ease with which a piece of dry rawhide can be soaked depends on how much it
was stretched while drying, and how much residual oil is left in the hide (ie.
parchment is easier to wet than rawhide because it has been stretched more and
has less residual oil, generally).

|>   
|>   Finally from other information I have recieved, it would appear that since
|>   rawhide is more susceptable to rot than tanned leather, it might have been
|>   used for other things, like shield facings, and we wouldn't know.

It would also be susceptable to rot in use, while on campaign, etc.  This may
have restricted it's use in damp climes.

|>   Also some sources suggest that different forms of raw, or undressed, or green,
|>   hides have different properties, although I have not been able to experiment
|>   with this yet.  It is suggested that buffalo hide when raw is in fact softer
|>   and more pliable than cow, which is why it was used for so much more by
|>   the Native Americans.

This may have had alot to do with the methods used for making the rawhide.
Native American methods would probably have depended more on bacterial action
to remove the hair from the hide.  This would have had more of a softening
effect on the hide than the alkali depilation practiced by Europeans.
Alternatively, another Native American method of depilation was by scraping, which
would have removed the upper or 'grain' layers of the hide, which are more
tough and compact than the underlying layers.  Without them, the rawhide would
be softer and more pliable.  What I'm trying to say is that variations in methods
used would have a bigger impact than the species of animal in use (particularly
when considering animals as closely related as the buffalo and cattle).

|>   Any further sources of information with regards to the historical use of
|>   rawhide and the properties or possibilities of _in situ_ "self tanning"
|>   would be greatly appreciated.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'self tanning', but rawhide/parchment, with time
undergoes a natural oil-tanning process whereby residual oils present in the
hide oxidize to produce aldehydes that 'tann' the hide.

For more info, see _Ancient_Skins,_Parchments,_and_Leathers_ by R. Reed (or was
it Reid?).  As far as I can tell, this is pretty much the definitive work in this field.
   
|>   No boiling in oil AT ALL.  Oil is used to soften leather, and all boiling
|>   it has gotten me is a soft squishy mess better left undescribed and buried.

Boiling oil is way too hot.  I've never tried the boiling water method described
by Reed, but he does specify that the immersion be very brief (depending on
thickness, etc.).  The hardening only works with vegetable tanned leathers.
  
|>   There are four ways I have used to make hardened leather.
|>   
|>   The first is to soak in cold water (as long as you want to, but 15 minutes 
|>   	ought to do it) then form it and let it dry.  This may not seem all
|>           that great, but if you've seen a vambrace after it's been sweated into
|>   	after a summer, you know it can harden up quite a bit.
|>   	If you tool the leather while it is wet, you will make it even harder.

Hammering dampened veg-tanned leather will harden it up alot.  This is why
sole leather is harder than belt stock.  It has been compressed between rollers.
The old fashioned method (in the recent past at least), was to hammer the leather you were going to use for shoe soles.
  
|>   The hotter the water you soak it in, the harder it will be when it dries.
|>   	However, each bit of leather has it's own point at which the water
|>    	is TOO hot, and will be cooked by it.
|>   	If this happens, your best bet is to keep it hot, and stretch it
|>   	out on a form and let it dry.  It becomes very hard and brittle,
|>           but that's the penalty for over ambition.
|>   
|>   If you take cold formed leather and while it is still on the form and pour 
|>   	REALLY hot water over it, letting it drain off (say fresh from a 
|>   	coffee maker), it will scald the surface of the leather and harden it.
|>   
|>   Baking the wet leather can make it even harder, say in an oven, but you run 
|>   	the risk of steam scalding it and making it shrink (I've done this
|>   	with bottles and it is *really* annoying.

This is the method I've used successfully.  I play with scrap pieces until I
get the temperature just right, and then bake my pieces, tied to the forms
with string.

Hope this helps, Balderik (who watched the regata in Venice a couple of weeks
back, lounging by the waterside a few yards from the Rialto. Nyah.)


From: krekuta at tor.hookup.net (Kel Rekuta)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Classifying leather
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 11:49:00 GMT
Organization: Kilmallen Consulting

WISH at uriacc.uri.EDU (Peter Rose) writes:
>From: WISH at uriacc.uri.EDU (Peter Rose)
>Subject: Classifying leather
>Date: 4 Oct 1994 12:09:41 -0400

>If you've got a whole pile of leather scraps from somewhere,
>how do you tell whether it's vegetable or Chrome or some other
>kind of tanned? My immediate guess, since it comes in a wide
>variety of interesting colors, is that it's NOT vegetable leather,
>but how do you tell?   (Boil it, and see if it gets hard?)

>Peter G. Rose, University of Rhode Island  | Azelin, of Wishford Hall

Peter, 

Look at the edge of the leather, or cut into it to get an undyed cut. If its 
grey in the middle, it will be chromium tanned leather. If its another colour,
it could be anything that has been dyed through. Veg tanned scrap is generally
thicker 4 oz+, and either oiled or waxed if finished at all. 

You could try wetting a piece and then stamping or pressing a mark into it.
If the mark has a crisp impression afterward, the leather is veg. If the 
impression is *just*  discernable, it is chrome tanned. Also if its' a chalky 
white colour, it is probably alum tanned. Chrome tanned, undyed leather is a 
pearl grey, faintly bluish tint.

Hope this helps,

Ceallach
( who sells 40-50 thousand feet of assorted leather each year.)


From: Maryanne.Bartlett at f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Maryanne Bartlett)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Classifying leather
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 01:09:00 -0800

 -=> Quoting Peter Rose to All <=-

 PR> If you've got a whole pile of leather scraps from somewhere,
 PR> how do you tell whether it's vegetable or Chrome or some other
 PR> kind of tanned? My immediate guess, since it comes in a wide
 PR> variety of interesting colors, is that it's NOT vegetable leather,
 PR> but how do you tell?   (Boil it, and see if it gets hard?)

1.Vegetable tanned leather has a distinctive colour and scent.

2.Chrome-tanned leather often has a white stripe in between the coloured
  edges. 

3.Latigo or oil-tanned leather is yellow inside the coloured edges. 

4.Cowhide split has no grain surface and you can tell it from real suede
  because the split has fibers that are about the same size and spacing and
  the suede has a distinct difference between one side and the other.

--Anja--
  

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)
Subject: Re: Leather Armor
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 01:18:22 GMT

"I've tried this, and all I got was brittle leather." (Anja, on
boiling leather).

How long did you boil it? Take 8 oz vegetable tanned leather, soak it
in water. Then boil it 20 to 40 seconds. Take it out. At 20 seconds
it is somewhat smaller (7/8 in each direction), somewhat thicker,
somewhat harder. At 40 seconds it has shrunk to 2/3 in each
direction, has about doubled in thickness, and is much harder. It is
now brittler than  when it started, but not, I think, too brittle to
use for armor. That, at least, is my experience.

David/Cariadoc


From: krekuta at tor.hookup.net (Kel Rekuta)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: re: Costuming and Boots
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 07:54:33
Organization: Kilmallen Consulting

In article  (I. Marc Carlson) writes:

>N.B. A few years ago, when duplicating the "arrow spacers" from the _Mary
>Rose_, my Tandy agent (Note to Balderik: It's the boot patterns, not the
>Company, I have trouble with) sold me a bit of leather that was machine
>compressed and half an inch thick, and was *specifically* for soles.

>Unfortunately, my Tandy store recently changed managers and when I asked
>the new one about it, he looked like I was insane.  So, keep your eyes
>open.

Just look in the Yellow pages under "Shoe Findings", most finders have an ad 
everywhere they can palce it where shoe repairment might read it. (Those that 
can read.) EVERY shoe finder (a wholesaler for the repair trade) carries 
"sole leather". It is damned near impossible to do the work without it.

What you are looking for is called "sole leather" in the business. What Tandy 
carries, regardless of what they might call it, is "strap" leather. Both are 
veg tanned, but sole is much more compact because of mechanical processing.
You could, for simplicity sake, just buy a pair of soles from a shoe 
repairman. Many wholesalers won't sell so little. If you need a lot, buy a 
bend of sole, ask for "10-11 iron" thickness at least. A bend is a big 
rectangle about 2.5x3.5 feet. It is the piece soles are cut from. Many finders 
sell 13" wide strips as broad as the bend they were cut from.

Ceallach CuMeallain
(who makes a living trading in leather and boot heels)


From: Jaeger <wjohnson at io.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pitch
Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 10:35:58 -0500

On 11 Apr 1995, Peter Rose wrote:
> Speaking of which, How does one get pine-tar / Pitch out of a
> pine tree in any usefull form?

Collect the sap balls from pine trees, or if you don't care about hurting 
the tree any channel it like they do for maple syrup.

Once you have a decent quantity place it in a metal container over a fire 
(not one you ever plan to use for anything else).

As it liquifies add ash to the mixture, stir occasionally.

Use a stick or brush swirled in the mixture as your applicator, keep in 
mind it hardens quickly but may be reheated as needed.

I used this simple method to afix a fire hardened bone point to a spear, 
three years later it is still solid.

wrj
Pardon my spelling.


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: DDFr at Midway.UChicago.edu (David Friedman)
Subject: Re: Leathercraft
Organization: University of Chicago Law School
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 01:08:42 GMT

griffkl at ndlc.occ.uky.edu (Kevin Griffin) wrote:

> Can anyone tell me of a good source to get leather from to make stuff? 
The leather factory is similar to Tandy's but, in my experience, somewhat
less expensive--especially if you get on their mailing list and then wait
for one of the frequent sales. They are my usual source for 13-15 oz
vegetable tanned leather; I think the price for a piece of about 22 square
feet worked out, when last I bought one (a couple of years ago at a guess),
to about $5/lb. 

They have outlets in a number of different states, including Pennsylvania,
but fewer than Tandy.
-- 
David/Cariadoc
DDFr at Midway.UChicago.Edu


From: lmurphy at wppost.depaul.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: brewers pitch
Date: 21 Jul 1995 11:48:00 -0400

     My husband asked here about brewers
pitch a couble of month ago and had no
luck with a source.
     He did find it buried in a catalog that he
already had:  JAS Townsend & Son, Inc.
                       (219) 594-5852
                       FAX (219) 594-5580
$5.00 per pound.  They sell to Civil War & F.&.I. reenactors.


From: clemke at whc.net (Carl W. Lemke)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Brewers Pitch
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 05:39:51 GMT
Organization: All USENET at http://www.net-link.com

On Thu, 08 Feb 96 02:51:03 -0500, onami at onami.ia.opentext.com (Brent
"Onami" Connell) wrote:

>Greetings one and all from Onami,
>
>Well, friends I recall a while back a conversation about brewers pitch here
>on the bridge and I thought that perhaps some one could tell me were to
>find such an article.  You see my Baron (Tarkatai) has been making 
>leather mugs lately and waxing them.  He would be interested in lining
>one with pitch in order to be able to drink hot liquids out of it.  Can any
>one out there help me?  Pehaps someone could tell me who made the 
>MK's leather mugs they seemed to be lined with the stuff and would be
>a place to start.

You can buy pitch at any jeweler's supply store.  Don't confuse pitch
(a resin from "Pitch Pine trees") with tar(made from oil).   The pitch
is very hard when you buy it and must be softened by adding a small
amount of linseed oil to the melted pitch.  Be careful when melting
pitch, this is, after all, the original Napalm.
Carl W. Lemke
SCA: Master Walthari

Carl W. Lemke Unique Jewelry
5301 Anchorage
El Paso, TX 79924
Email: clemke at whc.net
Hand-engraved signet rings, pendant seals, desk seals and period style jewelry.


From: sivori at communique.net at coolslim (coolslim)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Brewers Pitch
Date: 23 Feb 1996 17:13:23 CST

clemke at whc.net (Carl W. Lemke) writes:
>You can buy pitch at any jeweler's supply store.  Don't confuse pitch
>(a resin from "Pitch Pine trees") with tar(made from oil).  >Carl W. Lemke
>SCA: Master Walthari

Whoa! Now before any goes out to get jewelers pitch for their mugs I wanted to
point out that there is a specific substance called "brewer's pitch" that is
used by breweries to seal beer barrels, etc. I don't know that the jeweler uses
the same thing. Some where I have a source for brewer's pitch, if you can wait
a couple of days I'll try to find it and post it.

Donald F. Sivori Jr.
Roland aus Rhens


From: IMC at vax2.utulsa.EDU (I. Marc Carlson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: For People who *want* authenticity...
Date: 9 Mar 1996 00:47:18 -0500

I haven't seen any notes on this here (although I may have missed 
them if there were any), I was directed to a Web Site recently that
depressed me.  For those of you who are interested in some really nice
examples of authentic materials, take a gander at
Http://www.ftech.net/~regia/

Specifically at the Leatherwork and the Bone and Antler links.  

(the "sloppiest" work I saw there makes my best efforts look pathetic)

Ah well, it's a challenge for improvement.

"Authenticity is not a matter     Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn
 of money, but of time"           University of Northkeep/Company of St. Jude
 -- Unknown Recreator             Northkeepshire, Ansteorra
                                  (I. Marc Carlson/IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu)


From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Ultra Suede: What is this stuff?
Date: 4 Nov 1996 23:02:29 GMT
Organization: University of California at Berkeley

Lynn_A_Christie <lchristi at grits.valdosta.peachnet.edu> wrote:
>Please help!  Does anyone know what the 'ultra suede' sold in fabric 
>stores actually is?  ....

It's plastic.  It's top-quality, expensive plastic, and it does
feel like suede, and it is washable.  It's not leather and it's
by no means as tough as real leather, suede or otherwise.

And I think it's supposed to be spelled UltraSuede with a little
(TM) mark.

Real suede is leather whose surface has been rough-finished, so
that the fur side looks the same as the flesh side and it feels
soft.  (Unless you get it wet.)

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                        UC Berkeley
Argent, a cross forme'e sable           djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu
PRO DEO ET REGE


Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 17:11:38 -0400
From: karen at georesearch.com (Karen Green)
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Tawed Leather

Then Noemi wrote:
> I was rather curious too.  I am also still hoping for a source that documents
> tooled leather. . .

Here's a book that I suspect may have some information on tooled
leather:  The Medieval Horse and Its Equipment C. 1150-C. 1450 (Medieval
Finds from Excavations in London, No 5) by John Clark, ISBN
#0112904858.  The series from whence this book cometh is great for
documentation.  :)

Here's an interesting-sounding book:  Skin and leather in Judaism :
(Mishnaic-Talmudic and medieval ages, I-XV centuries) by David Gonzalo
Maeso, ISBN #8430019936.  That one's out of print, though, and I imagine
it has little to do with tooled leather.  ;)

Karen Larsdatter
  Barony of Ponte Alto, Atlantia


Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 21:40:26 -0500
From: SOC STUDIES <camlewis at swbell.net>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Leather Braiding

Varju at aol.com wrote:
> Here i am again with another leather related question.  Recently, during a
> slow day at work I taught myself to make leather button knots and am
> interested in making a 16 strand braided  belt.  I was wondering if anyone
> knew if leather braiding was period and knew of any sources specifically on
> braiding, or if this information would be in books on leatherwork in general.
> 
> Noemi
> varju at aol.com

I picked up a book at Tandy Leather, a local leather hobby store,
entitled Leather Braiding by Bruce Grant   ISBN 0-87033-039-X, that has
examples of Spanish edge lacing of many different styles and degrees of
difficulty, and also leather applique and belt braiding.  All of it is
late period but that is where the neatest clothes are anyway.

Alrek Kanin pat. pend.
Ansteorra


Date: Mon, 18 Aug 97 17:11:54 PDT
From: "Dinah & Harold Tackett" <htackett at eagnet.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Leather Braiding

Noemi
In Bruce Grants, Encyclopedia of Rawhide and Leather Braiding, Cornell
Maritime Press,  available from Tandy.  He talkes about this on page xxi of
the book.  It has a write up of leather buttons and other interesting
reahide braides items.  You can get this book which covers braiding and
horse gear or one which just covers braiding.  I personally found this book
very interesting and instructional.  ( good buy)

Harailt of Dinsmore  mka Harold Tackett
         htackett at eagnet.com


Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 09:47:26 -0600
From: Sinclair <jeffdp at earthlink.net>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Leather questions

The two most common commercial ways to make lether water resistant are
probably Neat-lac and Super Sheen, available fron Tandy's, etc.  Neat-lac
is a lacquer, and leaves a high gloss finish, but stays somewhat more
fleixble than does Super Sheen.  The latter is a duller finish.  Neither
affects the color of the dye, although Neat-lac makes it look darker due to
its gloss.

Sinclair


Subject: Re: ANST - The Sca and Tandy
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 98 06:46:35 MST
From: "Mike C. Baker" <kihe at ticnet.com>
To: <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG>

For small quantities or occasional use, consider used leather from
garage sale sources: even discarding the linings and taking care
to treat for fungals, a single pair of used boots can provide strapping
for a set of hardshell knees or elbows. By careful planning, even a
striking set of vambraces (consider some of the fancy-tooled
boottops split on the back seam and re-mounted / grommetted
and laced...)

Mike C. Baker
SCA: Amr ibn Majid al-Bakri al-Amra
"Other": Kihe Blackeagle (the Dreamsinger Bard)
e-mail: kihe at ticnet.com OR kihe at rocketmail.com


Subject: Re: ANST - The Sca and Tandy
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 98 08:52:07 MST
From: "j'lynn yeates" <jyeates at bga.com>
To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG

On 29 Aug 98, at 8:35, Mike C. Baker wrote:
> ... a single pair of used boots can provide strapping
> for a set of hardshell knees or elbows. By careful planning, even a
> striking set of vambraces (consider some of the fancy-tooled boottops
> split on the back seam and re-mounted / grommetted and laced...)

well there goes one well kept secret (grin) ...

due to the way this one walks (on front of the feet) always rough on the
boot soles and when they can no longer be re-soled they get dismantled
and stored for armour use down the road ... the last set of leather
vambraces came from exactly the source you mentioned (dress western
boots) and have a pair of 17" ex-engineer boots awaiting breakdown and
rebuild into the base for a pir of greaves at some point.

garage sales are always a good hunting ground for cheap leather belts that
can be cut into strapping ... curently hunting garage sales on and off for a
golf bag to be used as a weapons tote ...

'wolf


Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 15:48:41 -0600
From: "I. Marc Carlson" <LIB_IMC at centum.utulsa.edu>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: RE: Morrocan Leather

<"J. Patrick Hughes" <jphughes at raven.cc.ukans.edu>>
>I have come across numerous references to Morrocan Leather being popular
>in Europe in Period. I know it was used for book binding and shoes (though
>I am looking for the reference that told me those things. I would be
>interested in knowing the particularly tanning and dying (red effect) that
>produced this leather and if it was used for other things such as
>gloves???  Any one have Ideas?

You might also try looking for the terms "Corowan/Cordoban/Cordwain" and
"Spanish Leather".   This leather is a type of goatskin (from the Mouflan,
I believe).  And according to John Waterer in his work "Spanish leather",
it was used for a large number of things.

Marc/Diarmaid


Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:14:53 -0700
From: Twcs <no1home at encompass.net>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Leather in Europe

Magnus wrote:
> If you can get your hands on it, you will find a great deal of excellent
> high class leatherwork in this book:
> GALL, GÜNTHER.: Leder im Europäischen; Kunsthandwerk. Braunschweig,
> 1965.

Wow.  A Gunther Gall book I didn't know about!  Actually, to be truthful, I
only own a few booklets by Gall, which are all in color and draw upon the
collections of the Leder Museum and Schuh Museum in Offenbach am Main
for primary source material.  (I actually have all of my Gall references on my
desk at the moment for the long-promised list of Twcs's leather refs - which
I've been working on slowly but surely).  Gall, as far as I can tell, was or still is a curator of the combined Leder and Schuh Museums in Offenbach.  The
stuff I have from him is way cool, but it is in German.  I've been translating
a booklet he wrote in 1970 which discusses hot-work stamping of gold leaf
onto leather, but am only about halfway through because of difficultly with
technical terms not within my own vocabulary or any of my dictionaries.  (I
suspect my ego here with regards to my own fluency with German has been
getting in the way of my looking for help in this regard...   ;-)

As far as I can tell, Gall is the German equivalent of Waterer.  Magnus, I'm
envious!
ttfn, Twcs


Subject: "Intercucium" and "Oureleure"
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 99 10:01:02 MST
From: "C. L. Ward" <gunnora at bga.com>
To: medieval-leather at egroups.com

Marc asked about the following leather terms:
>There are also two terms that show up in the OED definitions that I am
>curious about since I can't trace them -- "Intercucium" and "Oureleure"

intercus, intercucis (Latin adjective) "between the skin and flesh" --
intercucium is the neuter genitive plural, "of / belonging to those areas
between the skin and flesh"

I'd suggest that "oureleure" is probably a French term, so I can't help
there.

Gunnora Hallakarva, OL
Baroness to the Court of Ansteorra


Subject: Re: ANST - Re: RN- Leather question
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 99 20:18:30 MST
From: "Cad & Martha" <cadmartha at drbcom.com>
To: <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG>

>My cadet brother gave me a saddle that I want to clean up for riding at the
>Squires and Cadets Invitational event.  It had been lying around for a number 
>of years and is somewhat moldy, though the leather seems to be holding together
>under the mold.
>Oh, great leather god-like entities....what's the best way to restore a yucky
>saddle?
>
>Isobel

Using a medium soft bristle brush, dawn dish soap, mixed with water about
like you are going to wash greasy dishes, scrub your saddle.  Use the water
hose to rinse it.  When its clean and the mold is scrubbed off the surface,
mix some bleach water in a spray bottle (a couple of capfuls of bleach to a
quart of water).  Spray affected (moldy) areas.  Let dry; that should take
care of the mold.  When the saddle is completely dry, you will need to
restore the oil.  I recommend either pure Neat's Foot Oil or a Neat's Foot
Oil compound.  Apply the oil with a soft cloth and let soak in.  Depending
on how dry the saddle is, you may need to repeat this several times until
the leather is pliable.  When the oil is dry, if you want a glossier finish,
you may apply Saddle Lac, Tan Cote, or other leather finish.

Master Cadwallader
3rd generation saddler


Subject: Leather in Europe
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:25:23 -0400
From: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>
Organization: Windmaster's Hill, Atlantia, and the GDH
To: medieval-leather at egroups.com

If you can get your hands on it, you will find a great deal of excellent
high class leatherwork in this book:

GALL, G†NTHER.: Leder im EuropŠischen; Kunsthandwerk. Braunschweig, 1965.
4to., orcl., xii, 406 pp., w. 16 pl. in color, 304 ills. in text. (Bibl.
fŸr Kunst u. AntiquitŠtenfreunde, Bd. XLIV).

I recently bought a copy from a Netherlands antique book dealer.
It arrived today. It is flat out stunning in the variety of items.

There are fantastic things in it like crown cases, reliquary cases,
leather caskets and trunks, cases for all sorts of things, many of them
repouseed in very high relief. There are a number of leather covered
shields in it. A few early ones, many from around 1600. On the subject
of shoes, it has only a shoe foot reliquary, and I don't recall any
saddles. The entries are from many different museums and countries.

There are a number of differently styled leather bottels than we are
used to seeing although there is a short section on English style jacks,
bombards, and costrels. There are cases for silver and crystal cups, one
particularly fine piece is a leather cover for a fully rigged silver
ship centerpiece, masts, flags, rigging and all.

There are some knife scabbards but no sword scabbards except for a
case for a sword of state.

A few of the pieces are religious. Most are secular. The majority of
the book is simply masterpiece quality work.

The really sad thing is that more of the pictures weren't in color.
A number of the pieces such as the shields and caskets are illustrated
from more than one view, in the case of the caskets usually front and
back or front and top, but not ends. I was very impressed with the
number of leather caskets in it. The majority of this book is later
Middle Ages and Renaissance and the material seems to end about 1920,
but there is very little modern work in it.

It cost but it was definitely worth it. Unfortunately I don't read
German. I have no idea how to type real German text into Altavista.
Rats. However I have these dictionaries...

Suitably smug and humbled variously,

Magnus


Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 03:46:15 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Jack C. Thompson" <tcl at teleport.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: new titles

Just a note to let people know of four new Caber Press titles:

_Working Horn, Ivory & Tortoiseshell_ by Charles Holtzapffel
reprint from 1843.  48 pages, $10.45 (includes postage).

Also by Holtzapffel:

_Iron & Steel: Forging - Hardening - Tempering_
reprint from 1843.  88 pages, $14.95 (includes postage).

_Leather Work_ by Georges de Recy (trans. by Maude Nathan)
reprint from 1905.  48 pages, $10.45 (includes postage).

_Food Products of the North American Indians_ by Dr. Edward Palmer
reprint from 1870.  56 pages, $10.45 (includes postage).

The last one may seem off topic, but Dr. Palmer was recording the
food gathering and preparation habits of a pre-industrial people
and because of that, it seems to me to be on topic.

Jack

p.s. the Caber Press is part of my conservation lab.

Jack C. Thompson
Thompson Conservation Lab.
7549 N. Fenwick
Portland, Oregon  97217
USA
(503)735-3942 (voice/fax)
http://www.teleport.com/~tcl


Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 21:46:50 -0400
From: rmhowe <MMagnusM at bellsouth.net>
To: medieval-leather at egroups.com, "- Stephan's Florilegium" <stefan at texas.net>
Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] balls

There are three balls in Novgorod the Great by Thompson.

There are also knife sheathes, spoon sheathes, a leather mask,
many shoes and boots, and an Axe sheath.

I don't recall if the Haithabu book had a ball in it or not.
There was a Viking Quiver and a felt mask that had been used
for caulking. Looked like a pig/bear face.

Groenman van Waateringe, W. 1976, Schuhe aus Wijk bij Duurstede, BROB 26
	1984, Die Lederfunde von Haithabu, Die Ausgrabungen in Haithabu 
Bericht 21

Enjoy it's by a dutchman... :)

Magnus

Marc Carlson wrote:
> If you can get ahold of the MoL _The Medieval Household_
> there are two designs for balls - one from c1330-c1380
> and the other from c1350-c1400.  One is two round end pieces,
> and a band for the middle (with a slit in it for filling the
> ball).  The other is four lens shaped quarters sewn together.
> Both appear to have been filled with tightly packed moss.
> 
> Marc


From: marc-carlson at utulsa.edu (Marc Carlson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Musty leather
Date: 16 Nov 2003 20:13:53 -0800

"Dianne & Greg" <goofy1 at suscom.net> wrote in message news:<vrde05ti4hql09 at corp.supernews.com>...
> ...All the spots appear to be gone. It was rather stiff for a while, but it's
> softened up nicely now.

You might try a light oiling as well.  My understanding is that oil
will soak in better if it's oiled while wet.

Really water isn't harmful to leather, although in some cases it can
stain it, mess up the dye, or wash out the salts for some forms of
salt cured/"chrome tanned" leather.  Vegetable tanned leather should
have no trouble at all getting wet.

The saddle soap suggestions are also fairly good, since that contains
emoliants

Marc/Diarmaid


From: "C. L. Ward" <gunnora at vikinganswerlady.com>
Date: June 6, 2004 5:11:53 PM CDT
To: SCA-Laurels <sca-laurels at ansteorra.org>, Ansteorra-Laurels <ansteorra-laurels at ansteorra.org>, Ansteorra <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Cc: Subject: [Ansteorra] Leather and Leatherworking in Anglo-Scandinavian and Medieval York

I just got my copy of a book that is fantastic for folks interested in
early-period leatherwork...

Mould, Quita, Ian Carlisle, and Ester Cameron. Craft Industry and Everyday
Life: Leather and Leatherworking in Anglo-Scandinavian and Medieval York.
The Archaeology of York: The Small Finds 17/16.  York: York Archaeological
Trust. 2003. Available from Amazon.com at
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1902771362/thevikinganswerl

*WOW*

Particularly interesting is specific information on leather decorating
techniques.  Viking Age leatherwork was not tooled like modern "Western" or
"Spanish" tooling.  Designs were embossed with a blunt tool, but not cut
then bevelled - you could achieve a similar result using a modern leather
modelling tool.  Occasionally stamps were used, but they were generally
simple geometrics and repeated over and over to get a line or a solid area
fill effect - think small triangles, for instance.

Also interesting was the silk embroidery down the top of the vamp of several
shoes, and Penelope Walton Rogers has a good analysis of the stich types and
threads used both for decoration and construction of the shoes.

And, needless to say, there are line drawings of the flat profile of the
shoes and sheaths discussed, plus lots of other fantastically wonderful
stuff.  If you're am leatherworker, this is a worthwhile $50 investment.  I
found that I could get the book slightly cheaper from Amazon.com than direct
from YAT, because Amazon only charges me the cost of shipping from their
warehouse (base price was the same).

::GUNNVOR::

Table of Contents
=================
General Introduction 3185
Introduction to the sites and their dating by R.A. Hall, N.F. Pearson and R.
Finlayson 3187
The nature of the assemblages 3203
Conservation of the Leatherwork by J.A. Spriggs 3213
Craft and Industry 3222
The surviving evidence 3222
The leatherworking trades 3222
Current documentary knowledge by Lisa Liddy 3222
The street-name evidence by Gillian Fellows-Jensen 3226
The physical evidence 3227
Environmental evidence by Allan Hall and Harry Kenward 3230
The osteological evidence by T.P. O'Connor 3231
The leatherworking tools recovered by Patrick Ottaway and Carole A. Morris
3235
The waste leather with a contribution by Ailsa Mainman 3245
The craft of the leatherworker 3256
The shoe-maker 3256
Shoe construction with a contribution by Penelope Walton Rogers 3256
The sheath- and scabbard-maker 3261
Decorative techniques employed on leather 3262
Teeth marks 3264
Types of leather used 3265
Conclusion Everyday Life 3268
Introduction 3268
Shoes Constructions 3268
Anglo-Scandinavian styles 3274
Medieval styles 3312
Sizes Decoration with a contribution by Penelope Walton Rogers 3340
Refurbishment and repair 3346
Foot pathologies 3351
Sheaths and scabbards with a contribution by John A. Goodall 3354
Other leather objects 3392
Wealth and status reflected in the leather from York 3415
The Wider Picture 3418
Anglo-Scandinavian ~d medieval leather found at York 3418
Comparable assemblages from elsewhere in Britain 3426
Possible cultural influences 3428
International relations by Carol van Driel-Murray 3431
The significance of the York assemblage by R.A. Hall 3436
Catalogue Appendix: Quantifications of shoes of each style 3533

List of Figures
===============
1559 Plan showing position of (1) 16-22 Coppergate; (2) area of Watching
Brief, zones 1-7;
(3) 22 Piccadilly; (4) St Mary, Castlegate; (5) All Saints, Pavement 3188
1560 Plans of the site at 16-22 Coppergate showing the area of deposits
excavated for Periods 2-5 3192-3
1561 Plans of the site at 16-22 Coppergate showing the area of deposits
excavated for Period 6 3194-5
1562 Plan showing the location of excavations, and building recording in the
Bedern area 3200
1563 Recording leather before conservation 3214
1564 The freeze-drier in use with leather 3216
1565 Conservator in the process of reconstructing a shoe 3217
1566 Scabbard 15661: (a) before conservation; (b) during conservation (gap
filling); (c) during
conservation (painting gap-filled sections) 3218
1567 Reconstructed leather footwear 3219
1568 Shoe uppers which received different conservation treatments: (a)
Pliantine (15880-1);
(b) Bavon (15498 and 15509); (c) freeze-drying (15507 and 15510) 3220
1569 Untanned calfskin 15823 3220
1570 Plan of York showing streets and parishes associated with
leatherworking 3225
1571 Possible stretcher frame from 6-8 Pavement 3228
1572 Currier's knives from 16-22 Coppergate and slicker from Bedern Foundry
3236
1573 Double-armed leather creasers from Anglo-Scandinavian contexts at
Coppergate 3237
1574 Awls from Anglo-Scandinavian contexts at Coppergate 3237
1575 Awls from medieval contexts at Coppergate and Bedern 3238
1576 Iron shears from Anglo-Scandinavian contexts at Coppergate 3239
1577 Iron shears from medieval contexts at Coppergate and Bedern 3240
1578 Map of Britain and Ireland showing the main sites referred to in the
text 3241
1579 Map of northern Europe showing the main sites referred to in the text
3242
1580 Willow last from Coppergate for shoe- or patten-making 3244
1581 Primary, secondary and tertiary waste from 16-22 Coppergate 3245
1582 Distribution of primary waste from 16-22 Coppergate: Period 4B 3248
1583 Distribution of secondary waste from 16-22 Coppergate: Period 4B 3249
1584 Distribution of tertiary waste from 16-22 Coppergate:Period 4B 3250
1585 Distribution of primary waste from 16-22 Coppergate: Period 5B 3251
1586 Distribution of secondary waste from 16-22 Coppergate: Period 5B 3252
1587 Distribution of tertiary waste from 16-22 Coppergate: Period 5B 3253
1588 Group of flesh shavings and primary waste 3254
1589 Seams used in leatherworking 3257
1590 The stitch most commonly used in shoe and strap construction 3259
1591 Leather secondary waste: sf18099 with a single bite mark and sf17546
with multiple bite
marks, both from 16-22 Coppergate 3264
1592 Diagram of shoe constructions found 3269
1593 Sole measurements taken 3272
1594 Sole types 3273
1595 Diagram showing the range of shoe styles represented by the leather
shoe components
found at York 3274
1596 Stitch conventions used in illustrations 3275
1597 Diagrams to explain terminology used to describe shoe parts: (a) shoe
soles; (b) shoe uppers
of principally one-piece construction; (c) shoe uppers with separate vamp
and quarters;
(d) terms used to describe shoe vamps and quarters 3276-7
1598 15357, shoe Style 1, made from a single piece of leather 3278
1599 15354, shoe Style 1, made from a single piece of leather 3279
1600 15354, shoe Style 1, after reconstruction 3279
1601 15353, shoe Style 1, made from a single piece of leather 3280
1602 15355, shoe Style 1, made from a single piece of leather 3281
1603 Map of Europe showing places mentioned in the discussion of shoes made
of a single
piece of leather 3282
1604 15371, shoe Style 2, after reconstruction 3282
1605 15372, shoe Style 2, construction type 1 3283
1606 15372, shoe Style 2, after reconstruction 3283
1607 15359, shoe Style 2, with wide top band 3284
1608 15358, shoe Style 2, with upper made in two halves 3284
1609 15374, shoe Style 2, with insert and narrow top band 3285
1610 15365, shoe Style 2, with narrow top band 3285
1611 15367, shoe Style 2 3286
1612 15361, shoe Style 2 3286
1613 Map of Europe showing places where low-cut slip-on shoes with a seam at
centre back
have been found 3287
1614 15381, shoe Style 3bl after reconstruction, with later slits to hold a
drawstring 3289
1615 15395, shoe Style 3bl, with the heel area of the uppers supported
internally by a heel stiffener 3290
1616 15385, shoe Style 3bl 3291
1617 15376, shoe Style 3al 3292
1618 15382, shoe Style 3bl, modified with a single slash at the throat 3292
1619 15397, shoe Style 3bl, modified with a double slash at the throat 3293
1620 15387, shoe Style,3bl, with a slash across the instep 3293
1621 15390, shoe Style 3bl, with a slash across the instep 3293
1622 15386, shoe Style 3bl, with a small rectangular tongue at the centre of
the throat 3294
1623 15398, shoe Style 3a2, with widely spaced slots around the upper to
hold the drawstring
in place 3295
1624 15404, shoe Style 3b2, with widely spaced slots around the upper to
hold the drawstring
in place 3296
1625 15399, shoe Style 3a2, with fine and closely spaced drawstring slots
3297
1626 15408, top edge of upper with fine drawstring slots 3297
1627 15413, shoe Style 3b3, with separate drawstring sewn to the centre of
the throat of the upper 3298
1628 15413 after reconstruction 3298
1629 15414, shoe Style 3b3, with separate drawstring sewn to the centre of
the throat of the upper 3299
1630 15419, variant Style 3b4, with a rectangular insert between the quarter
and the vamp wing
at the side seam 3299
1631 15418, shoe Style 3a4, with crescent-shaped insert sewn to the throat
3300
1632 15423, shoe Style 3b4, with crescent-shaped insert sewn to the throat
3301
1633 15424, shoe Style 3b5, with a peak at the centre of the throat 3301
1634 15425, shoe Style 3b5, with a peak at the centre of the throat 3302
1635 15429, shoe Style 4a1, with a single wide flap with a toggle and loop
fastening 3303
1636 15430, shoe Style 4a1, with a single wide flap with a toggle and loop
fastening 3304
1637 15880, shoe Style 4a2, fastened with two toggles on a single flap 3305
1638 15881, shoe Style 4a2, fastened with two toggles on a single flap 3306
1639 15439, shoe Style 4a3, fastened with a double flap and toggles 3306
1640 15438, shoe Style 4a3, fastened with a double flap and toggles 3306
1641 15436, shoe Style 4a3, fastened with a double flap and toggles 3307
1642 Map of Europe showing places where one-piece ankle-shoes fastened with
flaps and
toggles have been found 3308
1643 15442, shoe Style 4a4, fastened with double top band flap and toggles
3308
1644 15447, shoe Style 4a4, fastened with double top band flap and toggles
3309
1645 15444, shoe Style 4a4, with either single or double top band flap and
toggles 3310
1646 15847, shoe Style 5, one-piece upper with flap and toggle fastening
3311
1647 15453, remains of another Anglo-Scandinavian style shoe 3312
1648 15454, shoe Style 6, fastening at the front with integral laces 3313
1649 15459, shoe Style 7a, with integral front flaps 3315
1650 15460, shoe Style 7a, with integral front flaps and top band decorated
with embroidery 3316
1651 15468, shoe Style 7b1, with one front flap integral and the other an
insert stitched to the quarter 3317
1652 15479, shoe Style 7c1, with one front flap integral and the other an
insert stitched to a
projection on top of the vamp wing 3318
1653 15485, shoe Style 7b2, with drawstring passing through multiple slots
3320
1654 15487, shoe Style 7b/c3, with drawstring passing though vertical
thronged loops 3321
1655 15489, Style '7c3, with drawstring passing though vertical thronged
loops 3322
1656 15490, shoe Style 7b/c3, with drawstring passing though vertical
thronged loops 3323
1657 15495, Style 8a, a front toggle-fastened ankle-shoe 3324
1658 15496, Style 8b, a front toggle-fastened boot 3324
1659 15497, Style 8c, a front toggle- and lace-fastened boot 3325
1660 Two views of reconstructed boot 15497 , 3:}26
1661 15498, Style 8d, a front-lacing one-piece ankle-boot 3327
1662 15833, Style 8e, a one-piece ankle-boot fastening at the front with a
buckle and strap 3228
1663 15500, Style 9a, a boot of one-piece construction lacing at the side
3329
1664 15501, Style 9b, a shoe of two-piece construction lacing at the side
3330
1665 15504, Style 9b, a boot of two-piece construction lacing at the side
3331
1666 15505, Style 10, a shoe of two-piece construction lacing at the front
3332
1667 15511, Style 11-, with moss stuffing in the toe 3333
1668 15507, Style 11a, a front latchet-fastened shoe 3334
1669 15508, Style 11a, a front latchet-fastened shoe 3334
1670 15509, Style lIb, a front buckle- and strap-fastened shoe 3335
1671 Diagram showing numbers of shoes of Styles 2, 3,4 and 7 in sizes worn
by children, males
and females , 3339
1672 Tooled decoration on shoe sole heel extensions 3341
1673 Detail of 15524, showing single line of tunnel stitching for a vamp
stripe 3342
1674 Two examples of three rows of stitching between scored lines for a vamp
strip 3342
1675 Top band 15540, with double row of embroidery between scored lines 3343
1676 Top band 15543, with triple row of embroidery between scored lines 3344
1677 Top band 15410, with rows of slits for decorative thonging 3344
1678 Detail of 15457, Style 7a1, with lightly scraped decoration 3345
1679 Detail of 15483, Style 7c1, with scraped decoration 3346
1680 15426, with the vamp slashed close to the lateral joint to relieve
pressure perhaps from
hammer toe 3352
1681 Sole of 15487 showing hole worn through by the great toe as a result of
hallus rigidus 3352
1682 Distribution of sheaths at 16-22 Coppergate in Period 4B 3356
1683 Distribution of sheaths at 16-22 Coppergate in Period 5B 3357
1684 Distribution of scabbards at 16-22 Coppergate in Period 4B 3358
1685 Distribution of scabbards at 16-22 Coppergate in Period 5B 3359
1686 Three unprovenanced scabbard leathers from York 3360-1
1687 Scabbards of the 10th and 11th century from 16-22 Coppergate 3362
1688 Diagram to explain what a strap-slide was and showing four types of
strap-slides for scabbards 3363
1689 Detail of scabbard 15545 showing outline for strap-slide and circular
impression 3366
1690 Post-Conquest scabbard 15601 from 16-22 Coppergate 3366
1691 Belts and straps used for the suspension of scabbards in the medieval
period 3368
1692 Sheaths of knives and seaxes from Anglo-Scandinavian York: Type Al 3370
1693 Front and back view of knife sheath 15890, of Anglo-Scandinavian Type
AI 3371
1694 Sheaths of knives anq seaxes from Anglo-Scandinavian York: Type A2 3372
1695 Front and back view of sheath 15617 of Type B1 3373
1696 Detail of sheath 15617 showing seam 3373
1697 Sheaths of knives and seaxes from Anglo-Scandinavian York: Type B1
337~5
1698 Sheath 15625, Type B2 3375
1699 Front and back view of sheath 15625 3376
1700 Sheaths of knives and seaxes from Anglo-Scandinavian York: Type B3
3378-9
1701 Sheath 15648, Type C 3379
1702 Seax sheath 15659, Group I 3380
1703 Seax sheath 15660, Group I 3381
1704 Seax sheath 15661, Group I 3382
1705 Front and back view of sheath 15661 3383
1706 Detail of sheath 15661 showing metal fittings 3383
1707 Sheaths of seaxes from 10th- and 11th-century York, Group 3 3384
1708 Detail of sheath 15662 3384
1709 Detail of the decoration on the front and back of sheath 15889 3385
1710 Sheaths of knives from medieval York: Type E 3386
1711 Sheath 15658 from medieval York: Type F 3388
1712 Decorated straps or girdles 3393
1713 Detail of girdle 15872 with red-painted punched and impressed
decoration 3393
1714 Straps 15888 with decorative mounts 3394
1715 Straps 15888 with decorative mounts 3394
1716 Straps with decorative mounts 3395
1717 Flat straps, perhaps from horse equipment 3396
1718 Folded straps 3398
1719 Folded strap with back seam and two rows of imitation stitching, 15708
3399
1720 Plain strap folded longitudinally, 15712 3399
1721 Buckled straps 3400
1722 Slotted strip 15715 and suspension fastening 15729 3401
1723 Pouch and belt purse 3402-3
1724 Archer's bracer 15748 3404
1725 Front and rear view of archer's bracer 15748, made from re-used shoe
parts 3404
1726 Diagram showing how an archer's bracer was used 3405
1727 Leather panels possibly from balls of two-, three- and multi-part
construction , 3406
1728 Diagram showing the construction of (a) circular pads, (b) balls of two
parts, (c) balls of
three parts, (d) balls of multiple parts 3407
1729 Selection of plain elliptical panels 3408
1730 Plain elliptical panels, some with stitching 3409
1731 Elliptical panels with internal slashes 3410
1732 Discs, vessel bases and washers 3411
1733 Decorated fragments of leather 3413
1734 Cut-down pieces of leather 3414-15
1735 Other sites in York which have produced leather finds 3420

List of Tables
==============
348 Summary of archaeological development at 16-22 Coppergate 3191
349 Summary of archaeological development at 22 Piccadilly , 3199
350 Summary of phasing at sites within the College of Vicars Choral at Bedem
(including
Bedem long trench, Bedem south-west and Bedem north-east) 3202
351 Summary of phasing at the Bedem Foundry site 3203
352 16-22 Cbppergate: numbers of objects by functional type within each
tenement in Period 4B 3205
353 16-22 Coppergate: numbers of objects by functional type within each
tenement in Period 5A 3206
354 16-22 Coppergate: numbers of objects by functional type within each
tenement in Period 5B 3207
355 16-22 Coppergate: numbers of objects by functional type within each
tenement in Period 6 3208
356 Coppergate watching brief: numbers of objects by functional type and by
period 3210
357 22 Piccadilly: numbers of objects by functional type and by period 3211
358 Bedem Foundry: numbers of objects by functional type and by period 3211
359 College of Vicars Choral: numbers of objects by functional type and by
period 3212
360 Period 3 leatherworking waste from 16-22 Coppergate by tenement 3246
361 Period 4A leatherworking waste from 16-22 Coppergate by tenement 3246
362 Period 4B leatherworking waste from 16-22 Coppergate by tenement 3246
363 Period 5A leatherworking waste from 16-22 Coppergate by tenement 3246
364 Period 5B leatherworking waste from 16-22 Coppergate by tenement 3246
365 Period 5C leatherworking waste from 16-22 Coppergate by tenement 3246
366 Period 6 leatherworking waste from 16-22 Coppergate by tenement 3246
367 All types of leather waste by tenement and the percentage of total waste
they represent:
Period 4B 3247
368 All types of leather waste by tenement and the percentage of total waste
they represent:
Period 5B 3247
369 Sewing threads in leathen;:,ork from 16-22 Coppergate and Bedem Foundry
3260
370 16-22 Coppergate: construction type 1 by shoe type and period 3270
371 16-22 Coppergate: construction type 2 by shoe type and period
(Anglo-Scandinavian
period only) 3271
372 Modem English and Continental shoe sizes 3336
373 Shoe measurements expressed in equivalent modem English shoe sizes:
child sizes 3337
374 Shoe measurements expressed in equivalent modem English shoe sizes:
adult sizes 3337
375 Sizes of shoe found in each shoe style: child sizes 3337
376 Sizes of shoe found in each shoe style: adult sizes 3338
377 The number of clump repair pieces found at 16-22 Coppergate by period
and the
percentage of total shoe finds they represent 3347
378 The number of soles repaired at 16-22 Coppergate by period and the
percentage of
total sole finds they represent 3349
379 The number of times shoes were repaired at 16-22 Coppergate by period
3350
380 The number of cut-down shoes from Anglo-Scandinavian period at 16-22
Coppergate
and the percentage of total shoe finds they represent , 3350
381 Anglo-Scandinavian scabbard leathers from 16-22 Coppergate by period
3360
382 Anglo-Scandinavian knife sheaths from 16-22 Coppergate by period 3369
383 Sheaths of knives from medieval York 3387
384 Soles and uppers with pointed backs from selected Scandinavian sites as
a percentage
of all soles and uppers 3435
385 Shoe Styles 1 and 2 by period within site 3533
386 Shoe Style 3 by period within site 3533
387 Shoe Styles 4 and 5 by period within site 3534
388 Shoe Styles 6-8 by period within site 3534
389 Shoe styles 9-11 by period within site 3535


Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 02:57:29 -0400
From: rmhowe <mmagnusm at bellsouth.net>
Subject: [SCA-AS] Museum of Leathercraft : One of the finest
	collections of Leather artifacts in the world.
To: - Authenticity List <authenticity at yahoogroups.com>, 	- BARONY of
	WINDMASTERS' HILL <keep at windmastershill.org>,	- Manx
	<TheManx at yahoogroups.com>, 	- Medieval Leather List
	<medieval-leather at yahoogroups.com>,	- SCA-ARTS
	<artssciences at lists.gallowglass.org>, 	- StellarArts
	<StellarArts at yahoogroups.com>

<http://www.museumofleathercraft.org/#Publications>

Personal opinion:
Leather & the Warrior (paperback 1981) By John Waterer
Undoubtedly his best work.  Usually available new only
in the UK, from countrybookstore.co.uk or amazon.co.uk.

Leather in Life, Art & Industry (1992)
This is obviously a reprint. I would not compare Waterer
to Gunter Gall in his german masterwork on European leatherwork
or to any of the various shoe books, the most outstanding
of which is Stepping through Time by Goubitz, followed
closely by Hald's Ancient Shoes. Keep in mind Shoes and
Pattens covers only a few centuries in one city. Goubitz
covers a huge area over many more centuries.

Unless you want pictures of leather wallcoverings I don't
recommend Spanish Leather, as the title page is very misleading.

John Waterer's Guide to Leather Conservation & Restoration (1986)
Not all that great and is missing some illustrations in the
modern edition.

'A Short History of Saddles in Europe' by John W. Waterer.
Used to be very hard to find. As I recall it has maybe 12 pages
and is seriously out of date and there are far better books
and much more modern illustrators and information.

He also did Leather Craft and Leather Craftsmanship.
Those are actually better than all but the Leather and the Warrior
book. He did write a nice piece for Singer's History of Technology II,
has a section in Connoiseur's Tudor Furniture, an article in a
journal on Book Satchels [which is good] and an obscure article
on a single leather casket, which is apparently the only thing
he wrote I can't get ahold of.

Just so you know before you buy.

The Leathercraft museum used to offer a few more books on Shoes, etc.
I can't tell you you will be shipped the book you order.
Someone there isn't quite that bright, or wasn't.

Also see the links:
http://www.archleathgrp.org.uk/  for example.

Magnus


From: Catie Clark <cat at rocks4brains.com>
Date: August 30, 2008 2:59:08 PM CDT
To: ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] need doumunation on wood and leather burning

From: "willowdewisp at juno.com" <willowdewisp at juno.com>
<<< I have been trying to find out about period use of branding or burning on leather or wood. Do any of you have any resources I could look at at? >>>

Your Grace,

I have no info on branding/burning wood decoration in period.

There is a period technique in leather, but it is firmly associated
with gilding after the searing was done.  I do not think it would
be a stretch to use just the searing alone, but after over two and
a half decades of collecting references on leather and visiting
museums to see period leather artifacts for myself (you should
see the pile of photos I have!), I have never seen one leather
piece for any use that used searing as a decorative method in
its own right.  This doesn't mean it doesn't exist - it just means
I have never seen an example.  Unfortunately leather artifacts
from period have a low survival rate which makes it more
difficult to know what representative decorative methods were
in reality.  I think the extrapolation is plausible since the searing
of veg-tanned leather does causes a noticible shift in color contrast,
even in pieces dyed in dark colors, and during the blind-stamping
period of leather decoration in high-gothic Europe, it strikes me
as a natural extension of decoration already in use.  For example,
if I were judging a leather piece using searing by intaglio-cut
stamps done in the "international style of 1200," I would buy
into a well-made argument supporting the decorative motif on
this basis.

The easiest to find and most accessible documentation for hot
working is Edith Diehl's _Bookbinding_, ISBN 0-486-24020-7.
Not surprising, it's a Dover book.  There are other refs, like
John Waterer and Gunther Gall, but they are not easy to find
nor accessible (in the case of Gall, who wrote only in German).
(Several books by Waterer are now BACK IN PRINT for
the first time in 30 years, those of you who may be interested,
but they are not cheap unfortunately...)

The technique is called hot working or hot gilding.  It uses a
very specific set of tools.  It is a bookbinding decorative method,
though I suspect that it was used in other places (e.g./c.f., the
description of shoes with a gilded motif on the leather vamp
strip in {IIRC} the Museum of London's Shoes and Pattens
book).  If you have wondered at how they get those brilliantly
burnished, shiny, almost-reflective gold leaf bits on fancy leather
book covers, this is the method.  It dates at least back to the 13th
century, if not earlier (it's one of those things that likely followed
the crusaders home from the Levant).  Regardless, it is certainly
one of the "new" decorative techniques we see spread across
Europe during the "International Style of 1200" episode in the
High Gothic cultural period (12th-14th centuries).  Its advent in
Europe corresponds with the intaglio-cut "blind stamping" period
of leather decoration that you see everywhere prior to the
explosion of cuir cisele tooling out of central Germany in the 15th
century.  As period hot working is dependent of intaglio-cut
stamps, this makes a great deal of sense.

Prior to the advent of blind stamping, people were tooling their
leather for decoration (e.g. the famous Stonyhurst Bible).  It is
hard to tell if or how much of this was incised tooling, since for
any really good leather tooler NOT crippled by the use of the
modern swivel knife, the incising may be invisible by the time the
tooling is done (excluding cuir cisele where the incising is intended
explicitly to be seen as an integral part of the decoration).  When
the blind stamp "arrives," it puts the decoration of leather into the
reach of anyone who can afford a stamp.  These stamps were
intaglio-cut with a lot of flat area around the incising or engraving.
When you use one on some leather, the intaglio design becomes
a cameo relief surrounded by flat stuff all around it.  The blind stamp
appears in the 12th century (or sooner - I'm being too lazy right now
to go dig into the unpacked box of leather refs to double check).

The hot working extension of blind stamping works like this:
using a stamp specifically made of brass or bronze (and NOT
copper or silver or iron, for various reasons of chemistry),
you heat it in a non-sooty flame or on a hot plate.  When it it
hot enough (but not too hot or it will burn the grain of the leather)
you make your impression on DRY leather (not moist, which
is the case when you stamp leather cold).  The amount of hot and
the amount of "dwell" (ie pressure) is something that you can only
learn from experience and experimentation on your own.  This
makes an impression with some darkened constrast to the rest
of the leather.  The method continues to the gold: first you "paint"
the impression with glaire. Then you lay a peice of gold leaf over
the impression.  Taking the still hot tool, you restrike the impression
thus "frying" the gold leaf to the glaire on the surface of the already
sealed and seared leather.  When you remove the tool, the gold
is left in a shiny state which eliminates the burnishing step you need
to do when you water gild with gold leaf on gesso/vellum or gum
ammoniac on stiff bristol board.

Obviously, the hot gilding step is one step further than just
using the hot tool to sear and seal the leather.  To my knowledge,
this was only ever done with blind stamps in period.  Free-hand
design with a modern burnishing/branding tool was not done.
Why?  I think it's actually rather simple: you can get exactly the
same contrasting color effect if you know how to tool leather
properly, without the hassle of heating a tool.  Why use a harder
method involving special tools and heat when damp leather and a
knife and simple bevels and blunts will work just as well? (Contrary
to what Tandy and the Leather Factory want you to believe, you
can tool leather, even in a period style, even with the final product
looking very good, with a knife, a fork and a spoon, no kidding...
ask me to demonstrate sometime, when I have 20 minutes to
spare - or bribe me to come and teach a medieval leather tooling
class for your local group...)

Of course, the problem with blind stamps, hot or cold, on leather
is that you just can't bop down to Tandy's and pick up a few
brass or bronze intaglio-cut stamps that are of medieval design.
They just don't exist.  If you try to use a modern leather stamp on
a hot plate or in a flame, you'll blister the surface and ruin the tool.

If you use something you make out of a nail or any other piece of
iron or steel, it will react with the tannins in the leather and blister the leather grain, thus ruining the leather. You could use the bronze tips you get with a wood branding tool but the rounded tip is not appropriate for medieval leather designs and the flat tips (circles, diamonds, etc) are small and rather limited and you often have to pay extra for them.  Also, my experience with such tools is that the temperature is very difficult to control since none of them seem to have any sort of heat control.  They're essentially a cheap heating element with some threaded tips, like a cheap soldering iron with a twist (and for twice the price). My solution, when I decided I wanted to explore hot work, was to make my own cast bronze intaglio blind stamps in a variety of gothic motifs - which is how I originally got into casting and eventually became the foundry and jewelry casting
instructor at UC Davis (for my sins).

Therasia, leather nerd


From: Ann Renegar <baronesschipmunk at att.net>
Date: April 26, 2012 6:46:13 AM CDT
To: Leatherworkers' Guild of Raleigh Newsletter Editor <Shelly.Beard at gmail.com>, Leatherworkers' Guild of Raleigh President <David at CarolinaLawyer.com>
Subject: The Decoration of Leather / Dealer has other things too!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330561578104&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en

Originally published in 1905 by Archibald Constable as The Decoration of Leather.
112 scanned pages in pdf file format.

Contents
Introduction
The Decoration of Leather in the past
Chapter I Tools and Leather
Chapter II Methods of Working in Leather
Chapter III Leather Mosaic
Chapter IV Dyes, Patines and Gilding
Chapter V The Choice of Design and Color
Appendix Leather Hanging and Furniture
Note Some extracts from the report of the committee on leather for bookbinding, appointed by the council of the society of arts, February, 1900.

Discussions of the various methods in which to decorate leather in leather bookbinding and other articles of leather and the various leather tools used in the leatherworking:
1. Incising the leather
2. Cut or Engraved Leather
3. Carved Leather
4. Pyrogravure
5. Punches
6. Hammered Leather
7. Modelled Leather
8. Embossing Leather
9. Pointogravure
10. Stamped Leather
11. Open-Work decorating

12. Leather Mosaic: 
Monochrome mosaic on calf. 
Leather for Inlaying. 
Mounting the Leather on paper.
Tracing the desig on the paper
Cutting out the design
Pasting the inlay on the groundwork
Setting in the inlay
Outlining the mosaic
Polychrome Mosaic
Polychrome Mosaic on a Morocco Groundwork
Pasting the Inlay on a Morocco Groundwork
Mosaic on Modelled Leather
Inserted Mosaic
Mosaic in Relief
Incrusted Mosaic

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	leather-msg	Page 40 of 41