horn-msg - 2/8/08 Working with horn. drinking horns. NOTE: See also the files: Horn-Spoons-art, ivory-msg, ivory-bib, N-drink-ves-msg, glues-msg, bone-msg, p-bottles-msg, fur-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: mikeh at moci.uucp (Mike Huber) Subject: Re: Fake Ivory Organization: ICOM, Inc. Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1993 17:34:54 GMT Stephen.Whitis at f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Stephen Whitis) writes: : Azelin wrote... : : >3) What does a relative humidity of 100% MEAN? : >My answer: My understanding is that 100% humidity means that the air : > is saturated with as much water as it will take, at it's current : > temperature and pressure. This means that, when you put a bowl : > of acid-soaked potatoes out to dry, so you can make fake ivory, : > the potatoes won't dry. If the temperature goes down, the water : > falls out. : : Fake ivory? Is this as interesting as it sounds? If so, does : anyone have any details on how to go about it, what can be done, : etc... I don't know about acid-soaked potatoes, but I do use Tagua Nut as an ivory substitute. I buy it at The Woodworker's Store. Anaximander Domebuilder of Xidon From: ciaran at aldhfn.akron.oh.us (Skip Watson) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Fake Ivory Date: 29 Jun 93 23:49:32 EST Organization: Auldhaefen Associates In article <741272657.F00003 at ocitor.fidonet> Stephen.Whitis at f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Stephen Whitis) writes: > Fake ivory? Is this as interesting as it sounds? If so, does > anyone have any details on how to go about it, what can be done, > etc... > > Stephen of the Grove > Steppes, Ansteorra FIDONET 1:124/4229 > ocitor!Stephen.Whitis at rwsys.lonestar.org I don't know about how to make fake ivory,but there is a "vegetable" ivory available - the Taqua nut. Once cut, carved, sanded and polished it looks exactly like ivory and is rather hard. Ciaran the blunt / Skip Watson --- Internet: ciaran at aldhfn.akron.oh.us UUCP: ciaran at aldhfn.UUCP Auldhaefen Associates Email: auldhaefen at aldhfn.akron.oh.us From: BDP at HOLONET.NET Subject: Re: Fake Ivory Organization: HoloNet National Internet Access System: 510-704-1058/modem Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1993 19:39:13 GMT Ciaran the blunt (Ciaran at aldhfn.akron.oh.us) writes ---> Ci> I don't know about how to make fake ivory,but there is a "vegetable" Ci> ivory available - the Taqua nut. Once cut, carved, sanded and polished Ci> it looks exactly like ivory and is rather hard. How cheap is the stuff? I've got the latest American Science & Surplus catalog, and they sell Taqua for $2 a nut. I've no idea how that matches the going rate. BDP/Malachi -- The Reverend Benjamin D. Pollack, [bdp at holonet.net] Minister & Archbishop, The First Church of Cyberspace aka "Morgan Bluejeans", [mbj at delphi.com] Chaplain & Business Manager, Dedaparamaxxaginos Productions From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Pressed horn Date: 8 Jul 93 11:44:04 Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK. I met a man in Lancashire a few years back who works horn, he had the techniques from his father who got then from his... To soften the horn and make it workable it is put close to a fire. The man I met uses an electric fire, but said his grandfather just sat next to a yorkshire range and used the heat from the cooking fire. The essence of the softening process is to heat SLOWLY begin with the horn at a distance from the fire where it is comfortable to hold your hands. leave it there for long enough for it to heat right through, then move it a bit closer and leave it to heat right through, keep going until the whole piece is soft enough to wok with. He was very scathing of people who heat horn too fast, he said that the outer layers became softened, and it was possible to work the horn to make spoons etc. but if the inner layers were not thorougly heated they would constantly try to resume their former shape, this would make the article weak as the different layers were pulling against one another. Eventually this makes the article warp or causes its layers to delaminate. I don't know how long each stage of the heating process took, but he said he usually took most of the day to heat things, occasionally moving the hoorn closer to the fire whilst he went about other jobs. It sounds as though you are getting the horn too hot too fast How about putting it between the greased plates and then heating very slowly, by a fire if you want to be period otherwise a low oven might work. What are you making? how thick is the horn you are working? hope that's some help Jennifer From: WISH at uriacc.uri.EDU (Peter G. Rose) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: potato/ivory Date: 8 Jul 1993 14:06:48 -0400 Organization: The Internet Well, I WAS going to wait until I got this to work, before posting, but: According to _1001__Formulaes_, that I got via Lindsay Technical books, to whose catalog everyone should subscribe, you can make artificial ivory by: Masticate peeled potatoes in sulferic acid for 36 hours, dry between two pieces of blotting paper, and subject to great pressure. I reiterate that I haven't been able to make this work, because I can't figure out how to apply great pressure without either A) squirting the resulting paste out from between boards, or B) preventing it from EVER drying... As soon as I find a better source of acid, I'm going to try drying the mass completely BEFORE applying pressure, and see if that works. (the last batch of acid I got from a car battery that cracked open) I'll post again if I ever get it to work.... Do Y'all want the formula for artificial amber, too? --Azelin Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: cav at bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin) Subject: Re: Drinking Horns Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd. In article <1993Oct3.164848.1529 at camins.camosun.bc.ca>, ua923 at freenet.Victoria.BC.CA (Mark Shier) writes: |> |> I've just purchased an unpolished horn. I know about bleaching |> the insides to clean it out, but I'm not sure how to polish |> the outside or safely seal the insides. I have polishing buffs - |> tripoli, rouge, etc. Do these work on horn without filling the The polishing buffs should work (I think I've done this at some time in the dim and distant past). If you carefully go from course to finer grits, you will bring it up to a mirror finish without any scratches or pores to hold the compound (I seem to remember doing this in a rush, and having some black residue remain in the fine scratches). |> pores with compounds ? I don't want to discolour it. For the |> insides, I want to use something a little more permenant than |> wax. I've heard there are some good epoxies, but I want something If you're only using it for cold drinks, bees wax lasts for quite some time. Melt the wax in a double boiler, and at the same time heat the horn to the same temp in the oven. Pour in some molten wax, slosh it around, and (with the oven switched OFF) stand the horn upended in the oven with something underneath to catch the drippings. This will ensure a thin coating of wax over the inside of the horn. |> food safe. Any suggestions for the outside after polishing? |> Verathane? |> Any help would be appreciated. |> Mark der Gaukler. Cheers, Balderik Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: cav at bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin) Subject: Re: Drinking Horns Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd. Date: Tue, 5 Oct 93 16:17:33 GMT Ok, maybe I shouldn't recommend putting a wax coated horn in the oven (even if that's how I'd do it). Gotta be careful about putting flammable stuff in hot places. With the horn heated up above the temp. of the melted wax, you can slosh the wax around without it hardening instantly, and you should be able to dump out the excess wax. If putting the horn in the oven makes you nervous, you can heat it by dipping it in boiling water, or with a blow-dryer. It's just to keep the wax from hardening as soon as you pour it in. Cheers, Balderik From: cav at bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: drinking horns Date: 1 Dec 1993 20:05:49 GMT Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd. In article <KGORMAN.100.2CFCD3AF at ARTSPAS.watstar.uwaterloo.ca>, KGORMAN at ARTSPAS.watstar.uwaterloo.ca writes: |> |> This should go along with the question of how to prepare a drinking horn. |> |> My lord recieved as a gift a mug made out of horn. Unfortunately the taste |> it gives liquid, or perhaps it's smell, is too over-poweringly unpleasant to |> use it. |> |> Is there anything that could be done to fix this? As far as I can tell it |> hasn't been treated with bees wax, how could I tell for sure? |> |> Eyrny What does it smell/taste like? (or rather, what is the unpleasant smell/ taste that it imparts?). If it were treated with bees wax, it should smell/taste faintly of honey (I suppose this will vary somewhat depending on the amount of honey in the wax). The layer of wax, if thin enough, might not be readily visible, but should be obvious if you scape the inside with a dull implement. (you'll get little shavings of wax) From the sound of it, it is untreated. What I would do is wash it well, perhaps using a strong detergent (if you use something *really* strong like tri-sodium phosphate, you might want to limit how long you soak the horn). Then fill and/or soak the horn with a weak bleach solution (yes, javex is just fine). A few drops to a hornfull, or a capful to a bucket should do it. You can leave this overnight, or for a day or two, however long it takes to kill the smell. The solution should not be strong enough to damage the horn in the short term, but you might want to keep an eye on it for softening. Rinse and allow it to dry thoroughly. (as stated in an earlier post:) Melt some wax in a double boiler (careful as wax is flammable). Warm the horn in the oven (150 deg or so - this is just to ensure that the wax stays liquid long enough for you to coat the inside of the horn). Pour in some of the molten wax, and slosh it around to coat the inside with a thin layer, then pour out the excess. The waxing process can be repeated at later times as you feel it is needed. The bees wax can impart a faint honey-like flavour to beverages, but that's not so bad. Cheers, Balderik From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Parctical handling of horn question Date: 30 Nov 93 11:00:44 Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK. If You've got out the horn cores, (which I presume you have since you said you'd emptied your horns) the next stage is cleaning. If you boil your horns they will become soft and may de-laminate. Horn is made out of lots of thin layers, which can be split apart for making lanterns etc. but for a drinking horn you don't want this splitting to happen, so don't boil your horn. The best method of sterilising I have found is rinse thouroughly with hot water and scrub out with a bottle brush. then soak in wine makers sterilising solution. Alternatively the sort of sterilising solution used for babys bottles works as well and may be easier to get. O.K. sterilising solutions aren't exactly authentic viking, but the bugs you might catch from a mucky daed cows head are, given the choice I always go for safe sterility rather than authentic poisened beer! If your horn is as it came from the cow, then I would recommend trimming the top. This gives a thicker edge less prone to splitting. Just fill the horn with water, hold it as you would for drinking and mark where the water line is, then saw off the top level with that line so that any spare curves and bumps are removed. Horn is not very prone to decay unless you go to extremes like burying in soft peat for years. As proof of this there is at least one surviving dark age horn shown in Arthur Macgregors book "bone antler ivory and horn" That's been around for a millenium or so and survived! it was decorated with a carved lozenge pattern, so if you're going to be a viking chieftan you might like to carve a pattern into the thicker bottom end of your horns. If you extend the pattern up the horn be aware that the horn gets thinner the further up you go. A strap is very useful if your horn is anything above wine glass size. A popular method of fixing is to drill a hone in the solid tip of the horn and attach a ring of wire to the horn through this hole. (Make sure you drill through the solid tip or you'll have a leak!) then tie a loop slightly smaller than the mouth of the horn in a thong, leather strap, length of tablet braid or whatever and slide it up towards the mouth of the horn. Tie the other end of the strap through the loop at the horns tip. If you're good at metalwork you can get more elaborate and put fancy patterned metal horn mounts around the mouth of the horn and on the tip. Horn tips in the shape of stylised birds were quite popular. If you fancy getting this ambitious let me know I can probably refer you to some books with pictures of horn mounts in them. They definately add pose value to a horn! Incidentally there is a practical joker element where I am that carries round very large curved horns full of water and offers to let the unwary drink from them on hot days. If you don't hold them right the twist of the horn traps water that suddenly escapes when you drink. This gets you drenched. Does the SCA do this aswell or are you all above such horseplay? (I used to enjoy the cooling drench of water so I delibearetely fell for the trick every time :-) Jennifer Vanaheim vikings Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: pa142548 at utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer) Subject: Re: Parctical handling of horn question Organization: University of Tennessee Division of Continuing Education Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 14:29:01 GMT In article <JAB2.93Nov30110044 at bhars243.stl.stc.co.uk> jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray) writes: >Incidentally there is a practical joker element where I am that >carries round very large curved horns full of water and offers to let >the unwary drink from them on hot days. If you don't hold them right >the twist of the horn traps water that suddenly escapes when you >drink. This gets you drenched. Does the SCA do this aswell or are you >all above such horseplay? (I used to enjoy the cooling drench of water >so I delibearetely fell for the trick every time :-) I dunno if we're 'above' it, but one of the first things I was taught was to turn the point down. I tell all newbies when I have the opportunity. But then, here at Thor's Mountain, we rarely drink water, and a drenching is a sinful waste of good homebrew. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Mail to PA142548 at UTKVM1.UTK.EDU. Mail to ARCHER at that address will bounce. "Don't blame me, I voted libertarian!" =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From: LIBLBM at orion.DEpaul.EDU (MURPHY LORI) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: RE: SCA Digest V6 #1061 Date: 30 Nov 1993 08:09:00 -0500 Organization: The Internet Drinking Horns Dear Matz: All you need to do to a horn in order to use it as a drinking vessel is to clean the inside as thoroughly as possible and then line it with beeswax. Melt the wax in a double boiler and pour it in your horn and then pour it out, repeat two or three times. If you have plenty of wax, this is no problem. If you haven't, you'll just have to slosh the wax around in order to cover completely. I suggest you do not use your horn for anything hot or too acidic, and remember it is not dishwasher safe, wash only with lukewarm, mildly soapy water. Jon/Seamus From: folo at prairienet.org (F.L. Watkins) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Cleaning out a cow horn - how to? Date: 5 Jun 1994 15:56:50 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana I recommend that anyone wishing to work with horn--or wood or leather, etc.--get a copy of THE BOOK OF BUCKSKINNING ii, edited by William Scurlock and published by Rebel Press (publishers of MUZZLELOADER Magazine). II contains a lengthy article on powder horns and an absolutely indispensible article by George Glenn on making camp equipment. He deals with box, beds, chairs, valises and much else. My copy of II has been used so often that the varnish has come off the corner; and I recommend it for anyone in pre-19th century reenacting. The section on horn tells how to clean it, how to shape it and gives you such projects as a horn spoon, a cup and several other useful items. Any of the BOOKS OF BUCKSKINNING are great (and can be used by medieval reenactors as well, so don't be put off by the title); they are some of the few books published by someone else that we regularly keep in stock. They can be picked up at most black- powder events, at events we attend, from the publisher (Rebel Publishing Co., Rte 5, Box 347-M, Texarkana, TX 75501 or from most book stores that make special orders (it'll take a while, though). The price is currently $12.95 and the ISBN is o-9605666-2-7, LOC 80-54597. Hope this helps, Folo -- Damin de Folo - F.L.Watkins - folo at prairienet.org Baron Wurm Wald (MK) - Commander Baldwin's Reg't (NWTA) From: Karen.Moon at f555.n387.z1.fidonet.org (Karen Moon) Date: 06 Jun 94 16:53:00 -0500 Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Cleaning out a cow horn - how to? Organization: Fidonet: Cygnus I.I.N. / San Antonio, TX / 210-641-2063 My Lord, Having witnessed and participated in a number of horn cleaning procedures -- lots of Vikings around here; it happens -- here's the method we've always used: 1) Rig a stand for your horn in the sink, or outside (or wherever); 2) Arm yourself with a good stiff bottle brush and boil some water; 3) fill the horn with boiling water, let it cool awhile and attack the grubby inside with the bottle brush. Repeat as necessary; 4) Once the inside of your horn is free of nasty horn residue, you start working on the smell which, if not neutralized, will make using your horn as a drinking vessel nigh impossible. To do this: 5)fill the horn with boiling apple cider vinegar, let it stand several hours, maybe even overnight. Empty horn, see if it's bearable yet. If it smells like vinegar, not horn, this is good. If it still smells bad, repeat process. *Note - IMO it will never smell "good", just bearable.* 6) Now get a jug of really cheap red wine -- we can recommend Carlo Rossi Chianti, but use your favorite local rotgut; 7) heat up the wine, fill the horn with it and let sit. Again, repeat process as desired. Now I know this sounds like it takes awhile but only the most offensive horns took over 2-3 days. Now you'll need to polish up the outside using... someone help me on this part. My boredom threshold was never high enough to get to this point so I left it to the really hard-core crafters with their emery clothes and jewelers rouge and what not. As for the beeswax method, never heard of it and I don't know what they were really doing. It may well impart a very nice scent to the horn, but you wouldn't be able to use it for hot drinks (and considering I've seen everything from hot cocoa to Bloody Marys actually being mixed in horns, I can't think bits of bees wax floating on the top of your potables would add much to your enjoyment.) Good luck. If you find an easier way, let me know and I'll pass it on. Mari ferch Rathtyen, OL Barony of Bjornsborg Kingdom of Ansteorra --------- Fidonet: Karen Moon 1:387/555 Internet: Karen.Moon at f555.n387.z1.fidonet.org From: mcs at unlinfo.unl.edu (M Straatmann) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: RE; Horn Date: 6 Jun 1994 12:30:52 GMT Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln F.L. Watkins (folo at prairienet.org) wrote: : Now I'm confused. It seems to me that pouring bees wax into a : horn container is like carrying coals to Newcastle: the reason : horn is so versatile is because it *is* waterproof. Has anyone : else heard/done this? : Yrs, Folo : -- : Damin de Folo - F.L.Watkins - folo at prairienet.org : Baron Wurm Wald (MK) - Commander Baldwin's Reg't (NWTA) I was under the impression that this was done to provide a safer "lining" in which to pour your liquids in. Drinking straight from a horn, without it being sealed, can be nasty tasting at best and plain harmful at worst. It does not seal the horn in the sense of being water-tight, but rather seals the horn hygenically (sp?) mikhail nikolaevich -- Ye knowe ek, that in forme of speche is chaunge | Withinne a thousand yere, and wordes tho | M. Straatmann That hadden pris, now wonder nyce and straunge | mcs at unlinfo.unl.edu Us thinketh hem, and yit they spake hem so. - Chaucer| From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: RE; Horn Date: 6 Jun 94 15:47:56 Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK. All we do to clean our drinking horns is remove the cores, give them a good scrub with a stiff bottle brush then fill them up with sterilising solution and leave a while. the sterilising solutions vary from the ones used by home brewers, to the ones used to sterilise baby's bottles. None of them seem to be any better or worse than the others it just depends on what you've got handy. I know some people who sterilise with bleach, but it can leave a nasty aftertaste in the horn if you don't rinse well enough. Some people just wash them thoroughly with soap and water, but most prefer to be cautious and sterilise. I would guess that the beeswax lining is an attempt to line the horn so that you don't have to go through so much cleaning. I even knew someone who lined his horn with varnish since he was in a hurry and didn't have time to clean it properly. That was a big mistake, the horn tasted of varnish for ever afterwards. Personally I'd rather clean my horn as any sort of lining would reduce it's capacity & I want as much room left for ale as possible! You can trim the top of the horn to shape and fit any fancy mountings you want either before or after sterilising it. Some people I know regularly sterilise their horns with sterilising solution for baby's bottles & it doesn't seem to harm the horn or fittings at all. My horn is pretty plain with just a braided leather strap to hang it by, this is attached to a ring of wire fixed through the tip (the horn is solid there so it's safe to drill through). I have seen a dark age drinking horn in London Museum decorated with lines scribed round the horn, and rows of ring-and-dots. Some time I'm planning on carving something similar into a horn for myself. I have seen horns with their surface left plain, and horns sanded to a matt finish. The most popular finish is a smooth polish which is got by sanding with increasingly finer grades of sandpaper down to 1000 grade, then polishing with jewellers rouge. It gives a lovely shine and depth to the horn. Jennifer/Rannveik Vanaheim vikings From: dickeney at access.digex.net (Dick Eney) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: RE; Horn Date: 6 Jun 1994 21:08:01 -0400 Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA In article <2steps$1l9 at vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, F.L. Watkins <folo at prairienet.org> wrote: > >Now I'm confused. It seems to me that pouring bees wax into a >horn container is like carrying coals to Newcastle: the reason >horn is so versatile is because it *is* waterproof. Has anyone >else heard/done this? > So is cast iron waterproof, but it's still the better for seasoning. My lady, Tamar, points out that it's to make the horn smooth and washable inside -- in its natural (rough) state horn would retain more than a slight flavor of whatever you drank out of it last. |-----Mandarin 2/c Vuong Manh, C.P. (dickeney at access.digex.net)-----| From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: RE; Horn Date: 7 Jun 94 10:11:37 Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK. > My >lady, Tamar, points out that it's to make the horn smooth and washable >inside -- in its natural (rough) state horn would retain more than a >slight flavor of whatever you drank out of it last. All the cow horns I have seen have been smooth on the inside. Are there some breeds that are rough on the inside? or are these old horns that have cracked and peeled somehow? Beeswax can get quite sticky on a hot day, I would have thought that the horn would be more washable than the wax? Jennifer/Rannveik Vanaheim Vikings From: gshetler at envirolink.ORG (Greg Shetler) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: RE; Horn Date: 6 Jun 1994 16:15:28 -0400 Organization: the internet (see also the previous post - sorry, I can't thread from here) The idea behind lining/not lining the horns really comes from whether the user wants/ does not want the flavor of horn in his/her drinks. Personally, I think the horn flavor is rather nice, and enjoy it. Moreover, just as with pewter tankards, the flavor of your drink invades the horn, and enriches future draughts. Varnish can be used, but you must be certain to THOROUGHLY mix the varnish first, and be sure that after complete drying, the horn is thoroughly washed in a mixture of alcohol and water (to remove the easily diffused volatile compounds). Wax is better, because there is no real flavor problem.... For carving, I suggest using a dremel tool, with a fine bit. Wood-working tools can be used, but be careful: the curved surface makes slips much more likely.... Enjoy! --- ---------------------------------------->> Mordock von Rugen, Commander, Outlands Fray MKA: Greg Shetler >From the Barony of Al-Barran, Kingdom of the Outlands Once from Dun-Or, in Caid Originally from Western Seas, in Caid Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: delint at meena.cc.uregina.ca Subject: RE: Cleaning out a cow horn - how to? Date: 8 JUN 94 06:29:25 CST Organization: University of Regina, Regina, Sask., Canada In a previous article, steveo at baervan.nmt.edu (Steven L Anderson) wrote: >Yes, I am sure this is *somewhere*, but I'll be danged if I can find >it! How does one go about cleaning out a cow horn? I have a good >source (a vet) for them, but I want to know how to prepare it. Any >sources (or just a quick rundown) would be greatly appreciated. > > Erik Sannvik > What I have been told is that one boils the wee beastye to loosen the goo from the inside, and then work it over with a bottle brush. I DON't know how to polish it, but I will agree with the need to seal it by some means (in one of the leatherwork Compleat Anachronists there's a recipe for a pitch sealer that's probably better even than wax), not only because the horn will ALWAYS give off the essense of damp cow (yum!), but because any liquid you put into it can get into the horn and stain it. Especially bad for fruit-punch fanciers... Cedric van Kiesterzijl "Mmmmm, froot punch...." From: donan at ecst.csuchico.edu (Donan) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Cleaning out a cow horn - how to? Date: 8 Jun 1994 20:26:15 GMT Organization: California State University, Chico It's actually quite simple if you know how. One way I did it was boiling the horns in water for a longh period of time, just make sure you do this outside, my house stunk for many, many hours afterwards of "boiled beef", but that didn't really seem to work too well I found, so I let Mother Nature take over. It was summer time when I did this and I just set the horns outside for a week and let Nature's meat cleaners (yes, I used maggots) to clean out all the flesh from the inside of the horns, leaving behind the inner core of the horn that is normally connected to the skull. Those little guys cleaned it out quite nicely, although it did look kinda disgusting with the maggots crawling around inside. After about a week, I could easily remove the center from the horn and then boiled it out again, killing off/sterilizing everything that may have been left behind. As for treating the horn, you could use the old fashioned wax method, but as you know, wax dissolves in liquids eventually. But if you want something that protects as well as compliments the natural beauty of the horn, go to your local craft store and look for "Envirotech" or "Envirotech Light". It's a simple polymer plastic coat used for covering woodwork and such, like Verithane, but 50x greater in protection but is not poisonous after it dries. It's really easy to use, just follow the directions on the box. Hope this helps and best of luck to you And I invite anyone to write me, telling me how this method worked for them, In service to all, Lord Donan MacGlashan Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: solveig at utkvx.utk.edu (Duren J Thompson) Subject: RE: Cleaning out a cow horn - how to? Organization: University of Tennessee Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 18:29:00 GMT In article <8JUN94.06292539 at meena.cc.uregina.ca>, delint at meena.cc.uregina.ca writes... >In a previous article, steveo at baervan.nmt.edu (Steven L Anderson) wrote: >>Yes, I am sure this is *somewhere*, but I'll be danged if I can find >>it! How does one go about cleaning out a cow horn? I have a good >>source (a vet) for them, but I want to know how to prepare it. Any >>sources (or just a quick rundown) would be greatly appreciated. >> >> Erik Sannvik >> >What I have been told is that one boils the wee beastye to loosen the goo >from the inside, and then work it over with a bottle brush. I DON't know >how to polish it, but I will agree with the need to seal it by some means >(in one of the leatherwork Compleat Anachronists there's a recipe for a >pitch sealer that's probably better even than wax), not only because the >horn will ALWAYS give off the essense of damp cow (yum!), but because any >liquid you put into it can get into the horn and stain it. Especially bad >for fruit-punch fanciers... > >Cedric van Kiesterzijl >"Mmmmm, froot punch...." Hi! this is my very first time to use the rialto - eep! but I just couldn't let this one go. Locally, Sir Goldmund of Aragon taught a class a few years back at a Norse workshop on cleaning a horn. He used varying sized gravel to slowly but surely clean it out. Now I know this isn't very fast, but I'm pretty sure it's period. Basically you start with large (sharp if possible) gravel pieces, cover the end with something (to protect your hand) and shake it alot. Then you move to smaller and smaller stones until you are using sand to polish the inside. He advocated wax to coat it but I recommend not using beeswax as it is a little soft and softens easily in the heat. (Imagine getting to Pennsic and finding melted wax all over everything.) Some of the more commercial wax hardeners would be advised. Thanks, and Hi demere and martha! Solveig Ericsdottir I am told my address is solveig at utkvx.utk.edu but I haven't tried it yet. From: mross at offserv.tc.faa.gov (Mike Ross, nyma, x6976) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: water buffalo horn Date: 28 Sep 1994 19:18:08 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. In article 25307 at prostar.com, moreta at prostar.com (Moreta) writes: > >IP>Good gentles, >IP> I am currently in the process of attempting to recreate a composite >IP>bow. The one piece of material that I am lacking is good lengths of >IP>Water Buffalo Horn. >IP> >IP> Does anyone know of a good source for horn? Thanks for your time, > >(not knowing what goes into making a bow...except on a VERY rudimental >level..) could cow horn be used? > >Mo Atlanta Cutlery frequently sells water buffalo horn in their knife making section. I don't have the address handy but can get it if wanted. Museum Replicas is a part of them so they can be that way also. Mike --- Michael E. Ross TRW/NYMA (mross) Target Generation Facility, FAA Technical Center 609/485-6976 Atlantic City Airport, NJ 08405 Internet: mross at tgf.tc.faa.gov From: nusbache at em1.rmc.ca (2LT Aryeh JS Nusbacher) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Drinking horns, coating Date: 27 Jan 1995 20:47:44 GMT Organization: Royal Military College of Canada B. Shaifer (imperial at delphi.com) wrote: > What materials can be used to coat the inside of > a horn that will not be affected by hot or acidic liquids. > Bees wax is not acceptable. Brewer's pitch is a food-grade pitch which works very well. It's commercially available, and at least on SCA merchant (Thomas of Douglas) breaks it down into 1 litre tins for convenient sale to hobbyists. -- Aryk Nusbacher | When I have learned what progress Post-Graduate War Studies Programme | has been made in modern gunnery, Royal Military College of Canada | When I know more of tactics than a novice in a nunnery.... From: bubba at zark.ludd.luth.se (U.J|rgen \hman) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Drinking horns, coating Date: 29 Jan 1995 15:19:43 +0100 Organization: Lulea University Computer Society - Ludd In <3gbm5g$ql at cs6.rmc.ca> nusbache at em1.rmc.ca (2LT Aryeh JS Nusbacher) writes: >B. Shaifer (imperial at delphi.com) wrote: >> What materials can be used to coat the inside of >> a horn that will not be affected by hot or acidic liquids. >> Bees wax is not acceptable. >Brewer's pitch is a food-grade pitch which works very well. It's >commercially available, and at least on SCA merchant (Thomas of >Douglas) breaks it down into 1 litre tins for convenient sale to >hobbyists. >-- >Aryk Nusbacher | When I have learned what progress >Post-Graduate War Studies Programme | has been made in modern gunnery, >Royal Military College of Canada | When I know more of tactics than > a novice in a nunnery.... Greetings.... Remember that you doesn't have to coat the horn unless you will pour acidic liquids in it. We scrape them well on the inside, and finish it all by pouring strong tea in it to remove the yucky taste that it has after cleaning and scraping. Be well... / Ulf - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Ulf Mj|dtunga(Mjoedtunga, Meadtongue) *Canton of Frostheim *(where frogs live NOT) Vert, in pale a crescent inverted *Barony of Nordmark and a Thor's hammer argent. *Kingdom of Drachenwald bubba at ludd.luth.se -=- U.J|rgen \hman -=- U.Joergen Oehman(NHL-Spelling) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From: john.robarts at mercopus.com (John Robarts) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Drinking horns, coating Date: 30 Jan 95 12:24:00 GMT Organization: Mercury Opus BBS - St. Petersburg, FL - 813-321-0734 JJP>. at SUBJECT:Re: Drinking horns, coating N JJP>. at FROM :palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com N JJP>. at MSGID :<palmer-2501950849160001 at q5020593.mdc.com> N JJP>From: palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com (John J. Palmer) JJP>Newsgroups: rec.org.sca JJP>Subject: Re: Drinking horns, coating JJP>Date: 25 Jan 1995 16:43:35 GMT JJP>Organization: Space Station Materials and Processes JJP>Lines: 29 JJP>In article <5g9Y60u.imperial at delphi.com>, B. Shaifer <imperial at delphi.com> JJP>wrote: JJP>> What materials can be used to coat the inside of JJP>> a horn that will not be affected by hot or acidic liquids. JJP>> Bees wax is not acceptable. Please return via email to JJP>> Imperial at delphi.com.. Most gracoiusly Vladimir "Spar Urathane" .... It can be found at most Marine Supply outlets. I have used it for Many years with No problems! Be sure to let it dry throughly between coats. Four or five coats seems to work fine, though I have used as few as two and as many as ten. Lrd. Corwin ap Arawyn --- From: afn03234 at usenet.freenet.ufl.edu (Ronald L. Charlotte) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Drinking cups, coating Date: 27 Jan 1995 05:31:43 GMT Organization: Alachua County Freenet KRMcNutt (krmcnutt at aol.com) wrote: : I would also be grateful for some advise on this subject. I have an : unfinished horn that needs a coating. : Kelly : KRMcNutt at aol.com The material that I've used with a fair amount of success is modern, but is impervious to 90% of the abusive alchemy most of us are likely to drink. It can be found under various brand names, but the one in front of me now is called _Envirotex Lite_ and can be found at most well stocked craft or hardware stores. It is an epoxy type material and will stand up to anything that most modern plasticware will tolerate. A period material that works, if it can be found, is brewer's pitch, but is not heat resistant. I have seen a splendid leather drinking jack turned into a shelf ornament by the application of hot coffee. It can be found by getting an issue of Zymergy (a home and microbrewer's magazine) and checking out the suppliers of those who brew traditional "ale in the wood". Good luck, hope I helped -- al Thaalibi -- An Crosaire, Trimaris Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL afn03234 at freenet.ufl.edu or roncharlotte at delphi.com From: IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu (I. Marc Carlson) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: CRAFTS: Using Horn Date: 21 Mar 1995 16:03:52 -0600 Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway Some moths ago, I posted to both of these locations seeking information regarding the use of Horn in period. If I may be so bold, I now post some really nifty information... The Following material is excerpted from: MacGregor, Arthur M. Bone, Antler, Ivory & Horn, the technology of skeletal materials since the Roman Period. London & Sydney/ Totawa NJ: Croom Helm/Barnes and Noble, 1985 (Which, if anyone has a copy of, or finds a copy of, that they would be inclined to sell, please let me know) Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn/Marc Carlson ============================================================== Page 66 HORN As already stressed, the composition of horn is quite distinct from that of antler and hence the methods employed in working it can be very different. This is particularly true in the case of softening and moulding, which have for centuries been essential processes in the horner's repertoire. Rendering horn soft and malleable is achieved simply by the application of heat, although delicate control is needed to avoid damaging the material. (No chemical change is therefore involved here, although Zurowski (1974) mentions an alternative method of softening in which horn may be boiled in a solution of wood ash.) Following some weeks of soaking in a tub or pit, the keratinous horn sheaths were separated from the bony cores and set to boil in a cauldron. After one and a half hours boiling, the horn was taken out and held over a fire with a pair of tongs, or with a special toothed warming tool (Andes, 1925) to evaporate the excess water and further soften it by the gentle and even application of heat; to was then ready for "breaking" or opening. According to the account of a York horner working in the first quarter of the present century (recorded in Wehnam, 1964), one of two cutting methods would normally be used, depending on the desired shape of the horn plate; after the solid tip had been removed, the cut could either be maide in cork- screw fashion to produce an elongated rectangle when opened out with the aid of a pair of tongs, or else a straight cut could be made from tip to base, giving a squarish plate. Andes stresses that the cut is normally made along the weakest line, namely the inside of the curve. The whole of the above process had to be carried out quickly and efficiently, while maintaining the approprriate temperature; too much heat would scorch the horn, and not enough would result in its readopting its former shape. After some preliminary trimming and removal of blemishes with the aid of a scraping knife, the plates of horn could be returned to the cauldron for resoftening, afterwhich they were pressed between heated iron plates, the smooth surface of which had been smoothed with Grease [Endnote #11: in the 1740s a box press with a screw pressure control was developed for this purpose (G.B.Hughes, 1953), several iron plates and plaques of horn being interleaved within it. An account of its use in 19th C Kenilworth is reproduced in Drew (1965)] Final smoothing and trimming was then all that was necessary before the plates were ready for manufacture into items such as combs, boxes, etc. Exceptionally thin and translucent plates, such as were used in the windows of lantersn (hence, probably, the ME form "lanthorn"), were produced by selecting suitably light horns, soaking them in water for about a month, and then delaminating them or splitting them into two or more leaves before subjecting them to pressure as above. Andres (1925) mentions that translucency could be improved by smearing the plates with oil and warming them over a fire, or else by boiling them in three parts water to one part waste fat, before pressing them for half an hour and finally laying them in a dish of cold water. A fine globular lantern incorporating plates of this sort is described by Way (1855) and several smaller lanterns are illustrated by Hardwick (1981). Individual leaves of horn, bearing marks from preparatory grinding and polishing processes have been recovered from Tudor levels at Bayard's Castle, London (Armitage, 1982). Sheets of horn could be welded together by pressing them between greased plates at temperatures higher than thos employed in the processes described above (Wenham, 1964). The steel plates were heated in a fire and placed in press, where tallow was applied to them. When the temerature was judged to be right, the horn plates were introoduced and the pressure applied. After a few minutes, the plates would begin to 'run' and the pressure would be further increased. On cooling off they would be stuck fast together, providing the appropriate delicate balance of temerature and pressure had been maintained. Andes (1925) gives a recipe for enhancing the "elasticity" (toughness) of horn, involving a solution of three parts nitric acid, fifteen parts white wine, two parts vinegar, and two parts rain or river water. After treatment in this way, it is said that horn combs could withstand being trodden on withouth breaking. The methods described here have been in common use for at least the past three centuries and many of them probably have much earlier origins. Blumner (1879) quotes Pauscanius on the softening of horn in the second century AD, and mentions a striking range of utensils known from classical literary sources. In most surviving early artefacts in which horn was used other than in its complete form, too little survives of the organic material to demonstrate whether it had been worked in this way. The plates on the Benty Grange helmet [figure], howerver, were judged (Bruce-Mitford and Luscombe 1974) to have been softened and bent into shape. A fragment of thin horn with incised decoration, perhaps originally from a box or casket, found in a medieval context at York [figure] may be an early piece of pressed or delaminated horn. The series of horn combes with riveted side plates [fiure] seems to consist of the entire thickness of horn, which has simply been flattened and filed. The full potential of horn as a versitile raw material was perhaps only fully recognized during the last century... Bibliography for this excerpt: Andes, L.E. 1925. Bearbeitung des Horns, Elfenbeins, Skildplatts, der Knochen und Perlmutter (Leibzeig and Vienna: Hartleben) Armitage, P.L. 1982. "Studies on the remains of domestic livestock from Roman, medieval, and early modern London: Objectives and methods". in A.R. Hall and H.K. Kenward (eds.) _Environmental Archaeology in the Urban Context_ (London: Council for British Archaeology Research Report 43), 94-106. Blumner, H. 1879. Technologie and Terminologie der Gewerbe und Kunste bei Greichen und Romern 2 (Leipzig: Teubner) Bruce-Mitford, R. and Luscombe, M.R. 1974. "The Benty Grange Helmet" in R. Bruce-Mitford, _Aspects of Anglo-Saxon Archaeology_ (London: Gollancz), 223-42. Drew, J.H. 1965. "The Horn Comb industry of Kenilworth", _Transactions and proceedings of the Brimingham Archaeological Society_ 82, 21-7. Hardwick, P. 1981. Discovering Horn. (Guilford: Lutterworth) Hughes, G.B. 1953. Living Crafts (London: Lutterworth) Way, A. 1855. "Notice of a relique of old municipal ceremony, preserved at Chichester" Archaeological Journal 12, 374-6. Wenham, L.P. 1964. "Hornpot Lane and the horners of York" Annual report of of the Yorkshire Philosphical Society, 23-56. Zurowski, K. 1974. "Zmiekczanie porozy i kosci stosowane przez wytworcow w starozytnosci i we wczesnym sredniowieczu" Acta Universtatis Nicoli Copernici, Archaeologia 4 (Torun), 2-23. From: IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu (I. Marc Carlson) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Horn Stuff (was Drinking Horns) Date: 23 May 1995 14:59:14 -0500 Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway <From: "Michael E. Vezeau" <vezeau at ctron.com>> >I need some information on how to transform >a dirty old horn into a clean, shiny, and >smooth drinking horn that is safe to put >to use. > >Any www, ftp, or book names that may help >me out would be greatly appreciated. *sigh* For a "Drinking Horn" you don't need any books. The following process will work just fine: First: Make sure the Horn is hollow, and the core has been removed. If not, there are a number of ways to do this starting with leaving the silly thing sitting on your roof for a few months to let the core dry out. Second: Soak the horn in bleach for a few hours. Then scrub it and rinse it. Third: Scrape out anything that remains inside the horn as far down as you can reach. My wife used a bottle brush for a long time on this (I don't since I rarely, if ever, make drinking horns). Fourth: Cut the upper end of the horn off to form the lip of the vessel. Fifth: Sand completely smooth inside and out. Sixth: (Optional) I've recently had it suggested, though I have not as yet tried it, that at this point, is to fill it with water and drop a couple of Efferdent tablets inside it, leave it over night. Dump it out and repeat. Seventh: (Optional) Some people line their horns with Wax or Polyurithane, while others do not. I'm told that as long as you don't drink anything that will soak into the horn and turn rancid (such as milk), you really don't need to line them. Eighth: Sand the exterior again, rub it with steel wool if you desire, and burnish it with a bit of horn to get a perfectly smooth exterior. Ninth: Decorate. Much of the preceeding was garnered from a guest at a wedding I attended this weekend who's name I believe was something like "Gunther Bob" (Nice guy). I know, you're supposed to go to these things to see the bride and groom off, not grill the guests, but... :) I apologize for the "sigh" at the beginning, and what follows here is a deleteable set of opinions. Personally, I *HATE* drinking horns, unless they are VERY well done, in which case I can only admire the wasted craftsmanship. They are, IMO, overdone, and a waste of perfectly good horn. I know they are Period for some people, but I have rarely seen them done or decorated in a period fashion. Does this mean that I think you shouldn't have one? Don't be silly. My opinions should be relatively meaningless to anyone else but me, and goodness knows if your accessories revolve around my approval, there's something SERIOUSLY wrong. "Mihi Satis Apparet Propter Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn Se Ipsum Appetenda Sapientia" University of Northkeep -- St. Dunstan Northkeepshire, Ansteorra (I. Marc Carlson/IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu) From: dragonse at ix.netcom.com (Robert Womble ) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Raw Horn Date: 26 May 1995 17:55:30 GMT Organization: Netcom In <3q2aneINN8al at dur-news.ctron.com> vezeau at ctron.com (Michael E. Vezeau) writes: > >I am searching for sources of raw horn for >the construction of drinking horns. >Any info is welcome. > >vezeau at ctron.com I Bought a slightly cleaned horn at Tandy Leather for $5.00, they had uncleaned ones even cheaper. From: Malcolm Grandis <Malcolm at celtic.demon.co.uk> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Drinking Horns Date: 24 May 1995 00:09:29 +0100 Organization: None What I have done in the past consists of three stages. Where you start depends on whether your horn is fresh from the beast or fresh from the junk shop. 1. (Fresh from the beast) Lose the yuckky brown stuff. Scoop out as much of the spongy stuff and blood vessels as possible using a split in half piece of bamboo. If the horn is none too fresh you may need to hold your breath or eat some chilli while you do it ... Go to the local pet store and get some live meal worms (used as fish food) tip these still in their sawdust into the horn leave covered with some nylon netting outdoors for 8 days. 2. (Fresh fom the junk shop) Wash and sterilise Be careful - extreme/fast temperature changes can make the horn delaminate internally. Immerse in very hot _not_ boiling soapy water for 20 minutes. Rinse in the same water thoroughly and leave to cool slowly. Now rinse with cold water, get some baby bottle sterilising tablets and make up according to directions. Leave the sterilising solution in all night. Rinse well in cold water and leave at least a week for the horn to recover. 3. (someone just sold you this drinking horn) Seal It If you do not seal it then certain acidic drinks such as ciders, dry wines and most fruit juices will dissolve the horn, this makes for odd tasing hooch and a bad stomach. The best thing to use is two pack epoxy boat builders _varnish_ (not glue) which cures completely with very little smell/taste residue. The next best thing to use is a normal matt polyurethane varnish. Using emery paper wrapped around a stick roughen as much of the horn as possible on the inside, pour in a few ounces of varnish and slosh it around until you are certain all of the inside is covered. Pour off the excess leave somewhere warm (60-80 degrees to dry) if you are using epoxy since oxygen inhibits the cure fill the horn with water before leaving it. 4. (optional) Wax it Carve, paint and wax the outside, add a bronze rim and an animal-head terminal and you are there! -- _ _ Try Our / / Web Page http://ifu.net/html/culture/celts/thecelts.htm \_ELTI\_ ========================================================================== From: dragonse at ix.netcom.com (Robert Womble ) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Help with Horn Date: 25 May 1995 21:37:01 GMT Organization: Netcom In <3psqk1INN314 at dur-news.ctron.com> vezeau at ctron.com (Michael E. Vezeau) writes: > >I am seeking information for the proper methods of making >a raw horn into a safe-to-use drinking horn, if indeed there >are any. ANY info would help. > >Thanks > >vezeau at ctron.com Clean it well.... Coat the inside with Brewers pitch (Homebrew store) or a plastic resin that STATES it is safe to drink from. NOTE: Brewers pitch does not work well with the following - Alchol of high proof (EG:whiskey) or Hot Drinks. From: IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu (I. Marc Carlson) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: CRAFTS: Working Horn (Yes, we're back to that again) Date: 17 Jul 1995 09:37:53 -0500 Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway As some of you may recall, I've been playing around with trying to shape and work with horn, since it's a period material that appears to have been used to a certain extent during "the Middle Ages", and tends to be overlooked other than for making the ubiquitous Drinking Horn. Since it's remotely possible that some of you may have a use for this information, I thought I'd pass it along. 1. Working Horn "Cold" a. Sawing/Cutting Horn can be sawn into sections fairly easily (relatively speaking), although it's a good idea to use some sort of marking or tape to keep track of where you want to cut. b. Carving Horn carves easily, if you exercise patience. It is much more likely than wood for your carving to follow the grain more than you might like, but if you practice, this seems to clear up. Using files and rasps on Horn is like shaping the most friendly bit of wood you can imagine. I sat and filed a bottle stopper from the end of a bit of horn one night during a populace meeting and part of a revel. *I've never done this, but am informed that horn (especially the more solid bits) turns amazingly well on a lathe. N.B., I would hesitate to use "power tools" on horn that's been shaped, as the vibrations they create can break any weaknesses in the horn, breaking it. 2. Working horn "Hot" There are several ways of doing this, and I have been practicing with both. Essentially, however, is that as horn gets hotter, it gradually reaches a point where it becomes plastic enough to mold and shape. Judging from some of the examples I've seen, if done properly you can do some seriously amazing things with it. Unfortunately, I'm still trying to track down the proper way to handle it. As with making Cuir Bouilli, the point at which it melts is in a range that varies somewhat with each bit of material, and the instant you pass over that, you can wind up with an unusable product. The melting range appears to be 350 +/- 25 degrees Fahrenheit (180 +/- 14 C). If you are lucky, you can get it to change shape with out altering the color. However, more often than not you will wind up changing it to a lovely golden brown color. If you overheat it, it will burn, giving you bubbles and badly delaminating stuff that will *stink*. The thinner the piece of horn you are wanting to shape, the easier it is to work with. I have not yet worked out the most efficient method for delaminating the layers from each other, but am working on it. The best way I have have found to press horn, and to make sheets, is to cut the tip off the horn and then cut the horn lengthwise, either to unwrap it or cut it into two separate bits. Then using sheets of either steel or wood (I'm currently using oak), I've been pressing them with some "C" clamps. All the recipes call for coating the plates in tallow, and I haven't tried that yet (although I'm currently rendering a batch). I *have* used some spray stuff to keep the horn from sticking to my iron plates (when I used them), but it *is* possible that the tallow may have more of a purpose than just keeping it from sticking. 1. Boiling Some people claim that this is all that is needed, and I certainly can't dispute that they can turn out some really nice material. Boil the horn in water for an hour and a half (or longer), enough to soften it. At this point, you can either try shaping it by hand or with pliers, and then letting it cool. You can also boil the ends of horn cups or containers to stretch in order to set a base in it. 2. Dry Baking. I started with this and while it does seem to work, particularly if you work very gradually. However, you are much more likely to split and crack the peices you are working with. 3. Wet Baking. Boil the horn in water for an hour and a half (or longer), enough to soften it. At this point, you can either try shaping it by hand or with pliers, and then letting it cool, or else you can then place it in the plates and bake it, still wet, for about 10-15 minutes (longer is fine if you watch it to keep it from burning). You may have to gradually flatten it, tightening the clamps as it softens [CAUTION: It may sound like a stupid warning, but 350 Degrees is REALLY HOT, and the metal on the "C" Clamps will burn you if you so much as brush against it. You may want to wear a heavy long sleeve shirt with your gloves for this. Trust me, I've got the burn marks on my arms from this] Finally remove the item from the heat and let it cool naturally before trying to remove it from the plates. I haven't done the classic "Spoons" yet, but will let you know when I do. Comments? "Mihi Satis Apparet Propter Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn Se Ipsum Appetenda Sapientia" University of Northkeep -- St. Dunstan Northkeepshire, Ansteorra (I. Marc Carlson/IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu) From: dalm at enterprise.america.com (Laura McKinstry) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Source for Horns?? Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 06:59:43 Organization: PSS InterNet Services, InterNet in Fl 904 253 7100 In article <DDqB5B.v2 at hpcvsnz.cv.hp.com> doug_brunner at hp-corvallis.om.hp.com (Doug Brunner) writes: >From: doug_brunner at hp-corvallis.om.hp.com (Doug Brunner) >Subject: Source for Horns?? >Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 20:19:58 GMT >Does anyone have a Mail Order Source for Horns? I'm hearing that several >companies offer Cleaned and dried horns for less than $10. The local >Slaughter Houses, here, want about $8, and I have to clean them myself. To >Save the mess, it's worth the $2. Tandy leather does mail order, and they have cleaned and dried horns. They have two varieties of horn; I think what you're looking for is top - quality, unless you just want to make chunky toggles that look rustic. The top quality, though, gor for more like $15. I'd give you the number, but I JUST tossed my catalog. I knew there was a reason I shouldn't have! Then ribs for dinner... milord, you will forgive me if I don't dig... :) The cheaper ones look like they were collected from a field two years after they were shed. Not a pretty sight! Good for checking air-flow in a horn-flute before drilling into a carefully polished, gorgeous one, though. Good luck! From: HCANNON at netins.net (HCANNON) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Source for Horns?? Date: 29 Aug 1995 21:04:45 GMT Organization: INS Info Services, Des Moines, IA, USA In article <dalm.8.0006FF03 at enterprise.america.com>, dalm at enterprise.america.com says... > >Tandy leather does mail order, and they have cleaned and dried horns. They >have two varieties of horn; I think what you're looking for is top - quality, >unless you just want to make chunky toggles that look rustic. The top quality, >though, gor for more like $15. I'd give you the number, but I JUST tossed my >catalog. I knew there was a reason I shouldn't have! Then ribs for dinner... >milord, you will forgive me if I don't dig... :) > >The cheaper ones look like they were collected from a field two years after >they were shed. Not a pretty sight! Good for checking air-flow in a >horn-flute before drilling into a carefully polished, gorgeous one, though. > Try Track of the Wolf for horns that have been "boiled and cleaned" in both polished form ($5.99 for 10", less for smaller) and rough (which range from $7.99/10-14" to $35.99 for the scrimshaw quality [creamy white with contrasting tip] 16-20". The helpful staff will select the horn which most closely meets your stated desires. Their phone is:(612)-424-2500 weekdays 8:00AM-5:00PM, Sat. 9:30AM-1:00PM CST. No minimum order, plastic accepted and only actual shipping charge tacked on. I LOVE this place! Oh, their address is: Track of the Wolf Box 6 Osseo, MN 55369-0006 In service, Thorstein m.k.a. Wayne S. From: uwaylander at aol.com (UWaylander) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: HORN: Another Question Date: 4 Sep 1995 22:16:43 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) In response to "What do you coat the inside with"? - I don't coat them. My system consists of sanding as deeply into the lip of the horn as possible. Then I pack it with baking soda and allow it to set for several days. This gets rid of the noxious odour. Next, I remove half of the powder and add vinager. Chemestry 101, middle ages style. The effervesence scrubs the inside all the way down. Then, You cure the sucker. White wine (red will discolour it) for three days, to impart a pleasant winey smell. Beer if that is your wont. I've found that the wax and wax-like liners tend to melt and often add a subtle flavour of their own. We all try to stay period, but my morning coffee is much more acceptable out of a waxless horn than a styro McDonald's cup (the Scotts always made the best potables!) Hope this helped. Your's in service, Ullam From: IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu (I. Marc Carlson) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Horn stuff. Date: 1 Sep 1995 11:43:16 -0500 Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway <david.razler at compudata.com (DAVID RAZLER)> >Subject:Re: HORN: Another answer >Nothing. It's solid, water resistent unless boiled, alcohol resistent, >etc. This reminded me. In case I haven't mentioned it, I spent a while soaking horn in various fruit juices, vinegars, and so forth, to test the belief that vinegar will dissolve the horn (a major reason for coating them, it seems). I have found nothing to support this belief. Has anyone any first hand knowledge that *does* support this legend? I am currently trying an experiment based on a description I've run across for delaminating horn, and will report back when that experiment is concluded. Unfortunately, it requires soaking the horn for a month in water, so it's a bit time consuming. "Mihi Satis Apparet Propter Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn Se Ipsum Appetenda Sapientia" University of Northkeep -- St. Dunstan Northkeepshire, Ansteorra (I. Marc Carlson/IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu) From: IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu (I. Marc Carlson) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Delaminating Horn Date: 12 Sep 1995 13:54:43 -0500 Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway A month ago, I began an experiment on horn based on material I had found in: Hardwick, P. 1981. Discovering Horn. (Guilford: Lutterworth) Hughes, G.B. 1953. Living Crafts (London: Lutterworth) MacGregor, Arthur M. Bone, Antler, Ivory & Horn, the technology of skeletal materials since the Roman Period. London & Sydney/Totawa NJ: Croom Helm/Barnes and Noble, 1985). on delaminating horn. Most of the craft sources simply suggest that you file, sand, or scrape with a sharp knife or broken glass until the piece you have is the thickness you want. To my mind, this is a somewhat wasteful process (not to manage hard on my sinuses, what with all that horn dust, although I have gotten used to the smell... ). MacGregor and Hughes both discuss extensive soaking of the horn (although I'm fairly certain that MacGregor is simply reporting information found in Hughes) prior to both simple moulding and to delaminating. The material on delaminating, for example to make Lanthorn leaves (Horn lantern panes), says to soak the horn for a month seemed a little extreme, but I figured what the heck. I found a pitcher, then took a horn, cut off the solid bit and cut it down that side so that I had a cylinder of horn with cross section of: ************** ** *