glasswork-msg - 2/13/08 Stained glass, glass etching. glassblowing. glassbeads. NOTE: See also the files: glass-bib, glass-lnks, pottery-msg, enameling-msg, tiles-msg, lampwrk-beads-lnks, beads-msg, ceramics-bib. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: kreyling at lds.loral.com (Ed Kreyling 6966) Subject: Re: Glass etching Organization: Loral Data Systems Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1993 16:25:59 GMT st1xe at elroy.uh.edu (Brown, Derek S) writes: >Does anyone know how period glass etching would be? > >William Silke (Ansteorra) Greetings William, At last a question I know something about! ;^) Well lets see, your question is a little vague but I'll give it a try. In the fifteenth to seventeenth centuries period stained glass used a type of glass called "flashed glass" which was a thin layer (about 1mm) of colored glass (usually read or blue) placed on a thicker layer of clear glass. Then to aid in the overall look of the piece some or all of the colored glass was removed from the colored strata. See "Stained Glass" by Lawrence Lee or "Windows" by Day. For clear glass (ie goblet or bottle) etching you can find sources that show diamond or copper wheel etching. The diamond tip etching was usually done using a hand tool much like a pen. The process is also called stippling and shading in some books. You can get a good starter kit from a Swiss company called "TB glass etching tools". I have found them in some of the larger craft stores. But they are hard to find. I have heard but not yet seen documentation on apprentice driven rotating diamond tip etching tools. (Much like dremmel tools diamond wheel glass etching tools. Except that I do not believe the period machine reached the speeds achieved by dremmel. ;^)) I cannot remember the source I used for my documentation at the moment but I believe the title was simple "Glass Etching". I hope this answers your question. If your question was more of a how intricate or how good did it look? I can site an example where Germany wanted to start a German glass guild in the 16th century. After some negotiations with Venice including non-competition agreements in certain areas, Venice sent Germany a large glass bowl with all the instructions engraved arround the bowl for the construction and use of a glass works. The pictorials described in detail how to build the kilns, how much wood and rushes to cut for the work, glass mixture formulas ... Let me know if I can help further. I have some instructional materials, on paper not glass ;^). That I would be glad to mail you if you can send me your postal address. I have a Laurel in Stained and Etched glass. Erik. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Kreyling | Master Erik of Telemark O.L.,O.P. kreyling at world.lds.loral.com | Shire of Brineside Moor Sarasota,Fl. USA | Kingdom of Trimaris, SCA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: UCCXDEM <UCCXDEM at MVS.UCC.OKSTATE.EDU> Subject: Re: Glass etching Organization: Oklahoma State University Computer Center, Stillwater OK Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 15:04:00 GMT >Well lets see, your question is a little vague but I'll give it a try. In the >fifteenth to seventeenth centuries period stained glass used a type of glass >called "flashed glass" which was a thin layer (about 1mm) of colored glass >(usually read or blue) placed on a thicker layer of clear glass. Then to aid >in the overall look of the piece some or all of the colored glass was removed >from the colored strata. > >See "Stained Glass" by Lawrence Lee or "Windows" by Day. >Erik. Greetings unto the Rialto and unto Master Erik from Marke. I beg to differ on the definition on flashed glass. The base glass was a 'muff' glass which was a white color ( not clear .) My sources are _Stained Glass_ by Sarah Brown, curator and restoration of stained glass. London and _De Diversis Artibus_ by Theophilus, a translation The treatise by Theophilus is a period manuscript written in the 12th century. Marke Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: kreyling at lds.loral.com (Ed Kreyling 6966) Subject: Re: Glass etching Organization: Loral Data Systems Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 14:56:46 GMT In article <19931012090452UCCXDEM at MVS.UCC.OKSTATE.EDU> UCCXDEM <UCCXDEM at MVS.UCC.OKSTATE.EDU> writes: >Greetings unto the Rialto and unto Master Erik from Marke. >I beg to differ on the definition on flashed glass. The base glass was >a 'muff' glass which was a white color ( not clear .) My sources are >_Stained Glass_ by Sarah Brown, curator and restoration of stained > glass. London >and >_De Diversis Artibus_ by Theophilus, a translation >The treatise by Theophilus is a period manuscript written in the 12th >century. > Marke Quite right, I was having a time cramp. I have not found any flashed glass on white, except black on white. The three most available colors in this area are red, blue, or green on clear glass. If you engrave them with diamond or copperwheel engravers the effect is a snowy looking backround (not clear). Erik. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Kreyling | Master Erik of Telemark O.L.,O.P. kreyling at world.lds.loral.com | Shire of Brineside Moor Sarasota,Fl. USA | Kingdom of Trimaris, SCA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: kreyling at lds.loral.com (Ed Kreyling 6966) Subject: Re: Glass etching ??? Organization: Loral Data Systems Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1993 23:43:35 GMT In article st1xe at jane.uh.edu (William Silke) writes: >Does anyone know how period glass etching is? I would think the Middle >Eastern countries might have glass etching since their chemistry >(i.e. alchemy) seemed more advanced than Western Europe for most of >history. Anyone? > >William Silke (Ansteorra) I have been able to find documentation of Diamond tipped engraving; copper wheel engraving; and a process called abration. But I can not seem to find any dates on acid etching. Every book I have on glass mentions the dangers of acid etching "don't try this at home" but none of the books gives a date for the beginning of acid etching. Erik. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Kreyling | Master Erik of Telemark O.L.,O.P. kreyling at world.lds.loral.com | Shire of Brineside Moor Sarasota,Fl. USA | Kingdom of Trimaris, SCA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beckum at aol.com (BECKUM) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Info on Glass Blowing needed! Date: 24 Jun 1995 15:11:12 -0400 Your in luck, here is the address of my Baron whom does glass blowing as well as stained \ leaded glass work and glass beads: Syr Thomas ap Llewellyn MKA: Thomas Williams 10160 Allen Rd. Pickerington, OH 43147 E-Mail address: tjw at cblph.att.com Best of Luck Beckum From: david.razler at compudata.com (DAVID RAZLER) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Spectacles Date: Tue, 18 Jul 95 01:57:00 -0400 Organization: Compu-Data BBS -=- Turnersville, NJ -=- 609-232-1245 VG>I seem to remember seeing something on period VG>sunglasses...actually they should have been possible, if VG>you can make stained-glass windows, you can make colored VG>lenses--any color... VG>Ellsbeth Lachlanina MacLabhruinn The photophobe here - Thanks but - Yes, dark-colored and actual "stained" glass* came before glasses, but did they really exist? * Authenticity note here: MOST colored glass bits held together with lead came are NOT stained glass. It is a misuse of the word run rampant in our lower-case s society. Stained glass is clear or colored glass painted with a solution of silver nitrate dissolved in water and then put in a kiln - where the chemicals react and produce a permanent yellow-to-dark-brown color. The other stuff is beautiful, lasts for centuries if treated right, but is NOT stained! (it is dyed at the time of manufacture) Also, a lot of period through modern-day stuff is painted, colored glass. Look for chipping of old dark paint to know for sure. In Trivia Aleksandr the Traveller [david.razler at compudata.com] From: alysk at ix.netcom.com(Elise Fleming ) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period Patterns for Stained glass Date: 2 Jul 1996 13:06:14 GMT a013957t at bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us (Kellen Harkins) writes: >I'm looking for suggestions for locating patterns for stained glass. Dover Books has (had?) a children's book entitled "Stained Glass" (I think!). The pages are translucent and one is encouraged to color them. Most of the pictures are religious but they are copies of actual stained glass windows. Alys Katharine From: Pat McGregor <patriciaX_O_McGregor at ccm.fm.intel.com> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period Patterns for Stained glass Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 11:05:23 -0700 Organization: Intel IT Technical Publications Greetings from siobhan! Lady Kellen Oddsdottir wrote: > > I'm looking for suggestions for locating patterns for stained glass. I'd > prefer not to do straight religious pieces but a small rose window would > wonderful... Most of the research I've done is all 2nd and 3rd sources... > Any suggestions? When last I visited the York Minster, there was some sort of restoration going on on one of the Seven Sisters. As a part of this, the glass restoration company had a display of what the patterns they were using were. Someone had apparently taken many close pictures and then drawn detailed patterns of the windows. I asked if there were manuals or patterns existing, and the craftsman who was talking said that in some churches there were oiled paper patterns that had apparently been used at one point, but that most of the patterns disappeared in time. You might check with York Minster; alternately, perhaps one or more of our cousins in Drachenwald might know of a guild which might have more info. regards, siobhan From: Joe Wolf <"JOE.B.WOLF" at conoco.dupont.com> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: (Bone sewing kit, who can help?) How about glass? Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 09:45:10 -0700 Organization: Conoco, Inc. - IT Sourcing/Purchasing Sekhmet wrote: > I recently decided I wanted my whole take-to-events-sewing-kit as period > as I can get it. I decided I needed a box made out of bone to keep my > needles in. I'm still looking for information on boneworking, both > mundane and period, and I was wondering if anyone has come across what > an actual period sewing kit consisted of? I'm thinking 12th century, but > information about any time period is welcome. My Lady (Her Ladyship Teleri ferch Pawl) here in Ansteorra is known for her lampworked glass beads and bottles. The earliest bottles were formed by encasing a core with molten glass (not blowing!). She has small glass bottles, beautifully decorated, that many gentles here use as needle cases! (Also as salt cellars, perfume/oil containers, etc) She does merchant these small, and completely period treasures! (Interesting note: she uses Venetian glass from a factory that has been in constant production for the past 500 years! So in truth, her materials are period!) If you are interested in obtaining a period, small, glass container contact Teleri at esmitman at ghg.net We have some pictures we could scan and send via e-mail. Lord Manfred Wolf mka Joe Wolf Barony of the StarGate, Ansteorra Houston, TX Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 12:46:36 -0500 From: Caitlin Cheannlaidir <caitlin at phosphor-ink.com> To: "'sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu'" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu> Subject: RE: Glass beads Try: The History of Beads: From 30,000 BC to th e Present, Lois Sherr Durbin The Glass Beads of the Prehistoric and Roman Periods in Britain and Ireland, Margaret Guido I've got others here on the shelf; what do you already have? There's a new SCAdian glassworkers' list forming; if you'd like to pose your question there, you can subscribe by sending "subscribe" in the body of a message to compagnia-request at phosphor-ink.com. Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: johnrose at icubed.com (john rose) Subject: Re: Acid etched glass David Serhienko <tigycho at earthlink.net> wrote: >Is the use of various acid based concoctions for the frosting and >etching of glass in any sense period? Acid etch usually uses some variant of hydroflouric acid, which as best I recall, is not period. Diamond engraving is. There is another glass etching technique that uses hide glue to create patterns. You see it as feathery patterns on old office door panes, etc. The materials and methods are all compatible with the SCA period, but I have not come across any examples. The glue method is easy. You paint the glue on, let it air dry, and then bake the glass to about 150F until the glue desicates. The glass then spalls off as the glue peels away. Anybody seen this stuff around anywhere? Master John the Artificer From: Eric & Lissa McCollum <ericmc at primenet.com> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Acid etched glass Date: 29 Jun 1998 22:36:01 -0700 David Serhienko wrote: > Is the use of various acid based concoctions for the frosting and > etching of glass in any sense period? It has been a couple of years since I did the research so I can't lay my hands on my sources right now--but no, acid etching of glass is not period. (I'd love to be proved wrong though!) That said...diamond engraving of glass *is*. One source (Glass by George Savage) states that diamond engraving of glass began in Venice around 1560, and quickly spread. This advance coincided with an improvement in the quality of glass produced. The book has several examples pictured, including a beaker dated 1594 that pictures the Holy Roman Emporer Rudolf II and the electors--with their arms. I used it as documentation to engrave my arms on a drinking goblet. I picked up the diamond stylus at my local craft store. Gwendolen Wold From: DC <uboru at erols.com> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Acid etched glass Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 19:00:57 -0400 What's being described is known as "glue chip glass" and should be readily available from any dealer who carries stained glass materials. The way it was described to me is that the glue is dropped onto the glass when it is still in a semi liquid form. From: Carrie Schutrick <caos+ at andrew.cmu.edu> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Acid etched glass Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 11:38:59 -0400 Organization: Housing Services, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA >The glue method is easy. You paint the glue on, let it air dry, and then bake >the glass to about 150F until the glue desicates. The glass then spalls off as >the glue peels away. >Anybody seen this stuff around anywhere? It's really easy to find in stores that provide stained glass supplies--ask for "gluechip." You can get it in a variety of degrees of "chippedness," and the places with better stock will sell twice- and thrice-chipped glass as well as once-chipped. Which brings up an interesting question: what colors and patterns of stained glass are period? I assume that the fancy Tiffanies, with streamers and so on, are not period, but are we limited to solid colors? What about patterns for a piece? All my mother's pattern books are very heavily Victorian and Art Deco influenced. --Jeannette de Beauvior *****Carrie Schutrick--caos at andrew.cmu.edu--Pittsburgh PA--CMU***** <http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~caos> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: johnrose at icubed.com (john rose) Subject: Re: Acid etched glass Organization: extrude hone Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 14:36:27 GMT Carrie Schutrick <caos+ at andrew.cmu.edu> wrote: >>The glue method is easy. You paint the glue on, let it air dry, and then bake >>the glass to about 150F until the glue desicates. The glass then spalls >off as >>the glue peels away. > >>Anybody seen this stuff around anywhere? > > It's really easy to find in stores that provide stained glass supplies--ask >for "gluechip." You can get it in a variety of degrees of "chippedness," >and the places with better stock will sell twice- and thrice-chipped glass >as well as once-chipped. > > Which brings up an interesting question: what colors and patterns of >stained glass are period? I assume that the fancy Tiffanies, with streamers >and so on, are not period, but are we limited to solid colors? What about >patterns for a piece? All my mother's pattern books are very heavily >Victorian and Art Deco influenced. > >--Jeannette de Beauvior The glue method for decorating glass involves what is technicaly called "spalling", which occurs when local stresses are set upm that are parallel to the surface of the material. It works best on brittle stuff, like glass, ceramics, stone, and other hard refractory materials. There is a Bob Villa house show that has a sequence where a mason torches granite slab to provide a uinform tread area for steps. The glue does the same thing, but without the bother of a thermal lance. As the applied hide glue contracts, it stresses the glass, which eventually spalls off. There are enough accounts of the process to get details. The trick is to know that what to look for. I've seen "glue etch" and "glue chip". And larger stained glass stores sell both the hide glue, with directions, and chipped glass. You can add various salts to the glue, like Epsom, etc, to get the different effects. I recall that Henley's Home Formulary has a section on the process. The question remains: is this technique period? Possible, but I haven't come across examples or records. As for colored glass, all the stuff I've seen in England and Italy has been solid color and transparent, but.... You have the usual basic colors: clear, straw, green, red, yellow, and blue. The dark stains vary from black to brown, but usually are worn or weathered. But, in Italy, where I could get close to a lot of glass, I saw a number panes that were multicolored, usually clear with a tint from the above list. My guess is that the artist took clear glass, laid out the details in stain on the inside and painted a non-binding dopant on the outside, then baking the whole piece for a while. When washed, the dopant would leave behind a diffused area colored by the appropriate ions. I was surprised when I first saw this method, as I did not recall a mention of it in my limited readings on stained glass. It may be that two firings might be needed, one for color and one for stain. An enamelling kiln should be sufficient. This tech trail is interesting, as diffusion also shows up in case hardened steel. Today we make semiconductors. Did James Burke follow this? Master John the Artificer From: gyelle at aol.com (Gyelle) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Acid etched glass Date: 02 Jul 1998 22:03:20 GMT David Serhienko <tigycho at earthlink.net> writes: >What a downer ;-) My drawing skills (and I assume diamond stylus >etchingwould be more difficult than pencil drawing) are sadly lacking, >although I was hoping >to shoehorn my ability with a computer into creating a template to etch >with... Don't dispair about your lack of drawing ability. Print your design onto paper/whatever, tape it on the back side of the glass and "trace" it with the diamond stylus just like you would with a pencil. You can also stipple the line or make short strokes, etc. to get the effect you want. Remember that you can shade and texture with the density/closeness of lines and their direction. Play with it! Gyelle, the drawing impaired artist Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 15:55:02 -0700 From: Dan Berger <dberger at qnet.com> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Acid etched glass David Serhienko wrote: > Is the use of various acid based concoctions for the frosting and > etching of glass in any sense period? Well, Tiggy, as has been very comprehensively pointed out, no, acid etch was not period (for glass). However, that's part of the whimsy of Anachronism, isn't it? Another great way to "cheat": Once you've made your pattern on the computer, burn a silkscreen image and print the design onto the glass using the acid etch. A little technical skill to develop, but little artistic skill required :) . I personally don't like the acid etch much because it only leaves a two-dimensional image. Note that to this day Waterford Crystal is etched by hand. If you want to save some time, develop some skill using a Dremel or similar tool with a diamond point, it cuts deep and fast. From: gyelle at aol.com (Gyelle) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Acid etched glass Date: 14 Jul 1998 13:40:15 GMT In a message dated 98-07-14 01:07:57 EDT, stefan at texas.net writes: > Thank you for this hint. I have the same problem as David and probably > would never have tried this. Now I might. I can even see how I could > use this on glass drinking vessels. > > Is there something I should look for in selecting the glass to use for > this? I don't know any specifics about choosing glass, most should work. _A Short History of Glass_ by Chloe Zerwick published by Harry Abrams, Inc. in association with The Corning Museum of Glass has some great examples. One that I have thought about doing is a beaker c. 1530 that is diamond scribed with the signatures of members of a German Guild. Period glass is so much less limited than most people think. Usually at feasts you see very plain, clunky glassware, in most of period glass was anything but plain. 1960's glass (bright clashing streaks and spots, milliflori daisies, etc) is straight out of 1st C Rome- gawdawful ugly! The bottles that have molded patterns that are easily available right now were also a hit in Rome. In Northern Europe there were flourishing forest glasshouses. The clearing of the forest for fuel greatly impacted the region around them as it cleared land that could then be used for crops. These glass makers used different ingredients than the southern ones and produced a distinctive type of glass with a glossy, soft green hue. Gyelle Spence An Tir Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 16:08:11 -0400 From: Caitlin Cheannlaidir <caitlin at phosphor-ink.com> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: RE: Glass working and wax tablets >How may I make glass beads, and simple gaming pieces (just drops of >melted glass)? There are also a couple of places that sell lampworking kits (all the parts included) by mailorder. They will ship outside the US. As the simplest answer to your simplest question, you can use a propane or MAPP gas torch (available at the hardware store as a plumbers torch) to melt pieces of broken bottle. If it "drips" onto a smooth surface (think a baking sheet) you'll get your flat-bottomed droplets. You'll have to insulate them as they cool so they won't cool unevenly and crack. If you want more information, see my links below, or join the SCA glassworkers' email list. --Caitlin Cheannlaidir caitlin at phosphor-ink.com http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/7249 Interested in making glass beads? To join the SCA-Glassworker's List, send "subscribe" as the text of a message to <compagnia-request at phosphor-ink.com> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:50:59 +1000 From: Kiriel & Chris <kiriel at cybergal.com> Subject: Re: SC - feastware question - glass Someone asked about 10th century glass from I cant remember where. Glancing through one of my references (glass is one of my things) I find.. a glorious piece from the 3rd to 4th century ad, they think made for a greek living in rhineland. Multicoloured and gloriously delicate. It constantly amazes me the skill and delicacy of period craftsmen. I have info on ancient greek, egyptian, syrian, persian, chinese, roman, Sidonian, alexandrian, byzantine italian, german, frankish, teutonic. Glass from gaul, Cologne, spain, britain... Kiriel Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 16:15:49 -0600 From: Helen <him at gte.net> Subject: Re: SC - Right link for glassware Sorry, wrong link before, this is the right one for history of glass. http://www.muranoglass.com/history1.html Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 19:15:35 -0600 From: Helen <him at gte.net> Subject: Re: SC - Glass history links http://www.anticamurrinaveneziana.com/history.html http://www.pennynet.org/glmuseum/Glass/dragon.htm http://www.pennynet.org/glmuseum/Glass/cmgewer.htm http://www.pennynet.org/glmuseum/Education/edlux.htm http://www.pennynet.org/glmuseum/Education/edglmak.htm http://www.pennynet.org/glmuseum/Education/slab.htm Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 16:01:28 -0500 From: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Celtic Art Site Celtic Class site, not entirely complete, but - http://www.unc.edu/courses/art111/celtic/ Use 'art111' and 'celts' for the password and login Magnus Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 19:47:52 +1100 From: Kiriel & Chris <kiriel at cybergal.com> Subject: Re: SC - feastware question - glass I have found the most WONDERFUL site on the internet. You can buy what look like truly superb replicas of period glassware. My jaw dropped when I saw some of this glassware, it was so identical to the originals I have in my books. Check it out!: http://www.northerner.com/scanglas.html If I get a credit card, boy oh boy will it take a beating from this site! Also of interest to the glassier types is this site on the web, it contains a brief historical look at glass http://www.ftech.net/~regia/glass.htm and this site, which is the remains of a byzantine shipwreck excavation, which has some interesting things, including a heap of lamps which look remarkably similar to some that are fashionable right now as candle holders. http://nautarch.tamu.edu/INA/sl-glass.htm Kiriel Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 14:45:13 -0500 (EST) From: "Charles J. Cohen" <charles at eecs.umich.edu> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Stain Glass Windows Something that might be of interest. Many people believe that glass flows like a liquid, although it flows very slowly so that it can't be seen. The "proof" often given is that of windows in old cathedrals where the stain glass is thicker at the bottom than at the top. This idea, that glass is a highly viscous liquid at room temperatures, has even been quoted in text books. Unfortunately, this is wrong. Edgar Dutra Zanotto, a professor materials engineering at the Federal University of Sao Carlos in Brazil researched this topic. He examined the chemical compositions of over 350 pieces of glass from 12th century cathedrals, calculated their viscosity, and then determined their flow rates by extrapolating the viscosity curves of hot glass to lower temperatures. According to Zanotto's calculations, the stain glass from 12th century cathedrals would have to be heated to 414 degrees Celsius to observe any significant movement in the course of 800 years. At normal room temperatures, you would have to wait about 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years to observe any flow. This is far far longer than the age of the universe! The question remains: why are cathedral windows thicker at the bottom? It seems that ancient glass manufacturing methods often produced ripples and thick edges. The thicker edges may have been placed on the bottom for extra stability. But, as George Orowan, a professor at MIT states, "The myth is half true...Half of the glasses are thicker on the bottom, and the other half are thicker at the top." [source: Popular science, Sept 1998, p28] - Midair Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:27:19 -0700 From: "Teri C. Kennedy" <aquarian at infomagic.com> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Glass bead making >Lady Morgan the Celt, the arts and sciences officer for the Barony of Ered Sul >in Atenveldt, does this kind of work. Her e-mail address is >aquarian at infomagic.com. >> Or is there a person(s) anyone can >> recommend whom I can contact? I would like to know about start up tools, >> reliability of some companies, and historically re-creating a bead forge. Others have already answered this missive in part, however, one good catalog contact for tools, glass, etc. is: Wale Apparatus: 1-800-444-WALE Morgan ________________________________________________________________ Lady Morgan the Celt (O'Cenneidi), Crafthold de Artemis, MoA&S, CFS, CMS (Teri Kennedy, BFA) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:48:57 -0700 From: "Cathie" <Jorunn at qadas.com> To: <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu> Subject: Re: Glass beads-soft glass >You mentioned that glass was soft enough to melt over an oil lamp , can you >still get this type ? > >Mel I have a friend who makes glass and has a recipe for soft glass as they made in the middle ages. As a matter of fact, we are going to the furnace tomorrow to do a batch and I'm going to help him pull the rods. I'm going to use these rods at a guild meeting and actually burn them over an oil lamp to recreate the effort. As far as the recipe goes, I'll ask him for more detailed information. We are working together to recreate the process. In most of my research, the glass was made and rods pulled at one location, then sold to the lampworker who took them to a different location (in most cases) to make beads, game pieces, etc. I am forever looking for information. jorunn Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:16:24 EST From: <Gingen3 at aol.com> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Glass and Molds Well I recently saw the glass blowers at work in Jamestown, Va and they were using a 2 piece mold for their bottles. It was a money making (Not) industry for them. Since they were trained artisans/ Craftsmen it came from europe and this is just at the tag end of our period. A place to start anyway Lady Geva Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 05:41:05 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com> To: LIST SCA arts <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu> Subject: Some Glass refs Tyson Rachel Caroline Medieval glass vessels in England AD 1200-1500 a survey University of Durham 1996 Early glass of the ancient world 1600 B.C.- A. D. 50 E. Marianne Stern, Birgit Schlick-Nolte. c1994 Roman glass in Britain Denise Allen. 1998 Five thousand years of glass edited by Hugh Tait. c1991 Glass beads cultural history, technology, experiment and analogy. 1995 Dictionary of glass materials and techniques Charles Bray. 1995 The westerly trade of southeast Asia from c. 440 BC to c. 500 AD with special reference to glass beads. 1991 Mel Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:05:08 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com> To: LIST Glass Beads <compagnia at phosphor-ink.com> Cc: LIST SCA arts <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu> Subject: UK Glass rod supplier For anyone else out there in the UK I have finally found a supplier for EFFETRE glass rods: Schott Glass 01785 223166 speak to Karen Bromley, it is sold by the kilo so if anyone is just starting and wants to share a load contact me. Mel Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:01:03 -0600 From: <marsha.greene at mpan.com> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: RE: StainGlass-Celtic Knots >My wife would be interested in the comercial designs you have found. I >would be very interested in any historic examples you find. I fear that >the Roundheads particularly targeted both stained glass and Irish knotwork >(along with any other Irish cultural example they could find). The orgy of >16th century Puritian destruction has deprived us of a lot of our >heratage. >Charles O'Connor >jphughes at raven.cc.ukans.edu I knew someone would ask, so I went out to my car at lunch to get the packet. Its labeled 'Full Size Stain Glass Patterns, Celtic Creations', contains 12 patterns, mostly knots, three animals. By Sunlight Studio, 52 Yardley Place, London, Ontario, Canada. Phone (519) 657-2409, fax (519)657-8704 ISBN # 0-9680635-4-3 (not a book, but paper patterns), 1998. You probably have to buy from a retailer, not direct from company. I had a hard time getting it, my local Stain Glass store in Houston, TX ('Prisms' - 281-531-8551, Bob Webb), had to convince the distributor that customers would want to buy this packet, not just Victoriana patterns. It ran $14.95 retail. Good luck finding it. Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 08:26:50 -0800 From: Mary Haselbauer <slaine at stlnet.com> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Stained glass and celtic knotwork >Recently, a modern StainGlass pattern company came out with a Celtic >Knotwork selection, which I snapped up. I am intending to make some >windows for prizes. I would like to find historical examples where >knotwork was used in StainGlass windows. Try as I may, I have not found >any from the book sources I have for throughout Europe (and I have a pretty >extensive book collection). Most of the designs are Romanesque or Gothic. >Any sources out there with better info. Many thanks for your help. >Baroness Hillary Rose Greenslade Canton of Westgate/Barony of >Stargate/Ansteorra In general the people who used Celtic knotwork used it on portable things such as jewelry and manuscripts. They were people on the move and that's why that era is called the migration period. (Stone crosses would be an exception.) The churches in Ireland, at least, did not have much in the way of windows. Gothic churches churches came out of a different tradition, not knotwork. However, something stuck in my mind about a window with an knotwork pattern on it. In my one little book on stained glass windows there is a 13th century monochromatic window with an interlace pattern. It's at a Cistercian monastery where they had rules against the multicolored figural windows that were popular elsewhere. I suppose they chose this design because it was decorative (but not too decorative) rather than having a specific connection to Celtic lands or learning. The book is Medieval Stained Glass by Heribert Hutter, translated by Margaret Shenfield. New York: Crown Publisher, 1963. plate 11. I'm not the sort of person who goes ballistic when knotwork/interlace patterns show up in later period pieces. Who'd a thunk it would appear in a 13th century Austrian monestery. Those Irish monks got around. Slaine Subject: Glass of the Roman Empire Date: Sat, 06 Feb 99 17:30:23 MST From: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu> To: stefan at texas.net, bibliofind profile for Hacker Art Books, Inc. Linda Hacker, Hacker Art Books, Inc., 45 West 57 Street, , New York, New York 10019-1034 USA Tel: 212-688-7600 Fax: 212-754-2554 Email Address: hackerartbooks at infohouse.com The title you selected is: David Whitehouse.: GLASS OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE. ; From the stellar collection of the Corning Museum of Glass in Corning, New York, this selection of 24 magnificent pieces made by a variety of techniques, including casting, lathe-cutting, polishing, cameo glass and blowing. Each piece is an important work, as well as a fine example of the continuum of Roman arts. Each is annotated in detail, with an introduction on the development of Roman glass. Softbound, 8-1/4x9, 60pp., 24 color plates, glossary, bib. Corning, N.Y., 1988. Specially priced at 9190 USD4.95 View the Hacker Art Books, Inc. Home Page at www.bibliofind.com Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 23:13:25 -0400 From: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Some Glass Resources Since I was doing these links for one person, why not share. Glasswork and Beading http://www.inspirationfarm.com/gg/articles/supplies.html http://www.larkbooks.com/home.nav/lb/supplies_beading.html http://www.beads2u.com/ http://www.asgs-glass.org/ http://www.regia.org/glass.htm http://members.aol.com/anniebee2/links.htm http://www.el-dorado.ca.us/~flameon/ http://www.innercite.com/~flameon/welcome.html http://www.innercite.com/~flameon/catalog/catalog.html http://www.mickelsenstudios.com/articles.htm http://www.auralens.com/ http://elaine.teleport.com/~paulec/beadbooks.html http://www.teleport.com/~paulec/beadbooks.html http://www.teleport.com/~paulec/beadcatalogs.html http://www.mcs.net/~simone/beadfairies.html http://www.mcs.net/~simone/bres.html http://www.mcs.net/~simone/beadnet.html http://www.thebeadsite.com/ http://beadwork.miningco.com/ http://www.inspirationfarm.com/gg/articles/article1.html http://www.inspirationfarm.com/gg/articles/articles.html http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/7249/bibliography.html http://www.caravanbeads.com/ http://www.chihuly.com/ http://www.coppercoyote.com/ http://www.dichromagic.com/ http://www.craftweb.com/org/enamel/enamel.htm http://www.eurotool.com/beadnet.htm http://www.teleport.com/~paulec/beadshops.html http://www.firemtn.com/ http://www.ghgcorp.com/esmitman/ http://www.olywa.net/frantzbead/ http://www.olywa.com/frantzbead/ http://www.a1server.com/beadluv/index.html http://cgi.exo.com/~jht/forum/index.cgi?noframes http://www.teleport.com/~paulec/glassbeadmakingFAQ.html http://www.hotglass.com/adindx.html http://www.hotglass.com/index.html http://exo.com/~jht/hotglass/access/vol9/v9n3.html#2a http://www.inspirationfarm.com/index.html http://www.sound-check.com/beads/ http://www.hackerglass.com/ http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/7249/glinks.html http://www.kroma.com/ http://www.dnaco.net/~scababe/medievalbead/ http://beadwork.about.com/library/weekly/aa050499.htm?PM=69_6_T&cob=home http://www.inspirationfarm.com/gg/articles/safety.html http://www.commnet.edu/QVCTC/student/crowe/lingo.html http://www.hotglass.com/hacker/hacker.html http://www.psrc.usm.edu/macrog/ http://www.meredithglass.com/ http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MikeFirth/ http://www.gpnet.it/marketti/ermor/home.htm http://www.teleport.com/~paulec/resources.html http://www.sgb.org/ http://www.siu.edu/~siuglass/ http://www.steinertindustries.com/ http://www.artglass1.com/index.htm http://home.ici.net/~beowulf/jessica/beadwork/ M. Magnus Malleus, OL, Atlantia, GDH Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 23:03:44 EDT From: <LrdRas at aol.com> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Disguising jar lids nn3_shay at yahoo.com writes: <<I just have the recollection that glass was pretty much a luxury item. >> According to the guides at the Cloisters this is inaccurate. Glass dishes, cups, goblets were commonly used and when they broke they were collected and remelted and used. Fancy ornate things like salt cellars of spun glass, etc., were rare and costly. However, common glass objects were relatively cheap and commonly available. Ras Date: 2 Jul 99 10:01:27 -0500 From: "Donna C" <dcdesign at shield.com> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Glass I have been recently researching glass and glass-making. According to my books (listed below); a very crude glass, used for every day rather than display was made in England from the 13th century; Germany, France and the Low Countries (Liege and Brussels) from the 9th century. Most of their glass was impure and therefore had a slight green or blue tinge to it. Very similar to the cheap hand-blown glass we get from Mexico. Venetian glass was considered the finest in the world throughout most of our time period and was of course costly to own. The Venetian glass-making guild was formed in the early 1200's. Which means that they were making glass before that, they just weren't organized yet. I am assuming that you wanted information on European glass and not any of the Middle Eastern, Byzantine, or Roman stuff. Books: A short History of Glass By Cloe Zerwick ISBN 0-8109-3801-4 Glass from Antiquity to the Renaissance By Giovanni Mariacher ISBN 600338083 The History of Glass By Dan Klein and Ward Lloyd ISBN 0-517-68910 3 Glass By Paul Vickers Gardner LOC 78-62735 (This one doesn't have an ISBN) Hope this helps, Galla Cunningham --------------------------------------------------------- Donna Cunningham DCdesigns & Illustrations 512/259-9682 dcdesign at shield.com --------------------------------------------------------- Date: 2 Jul 99 11:45:50 -0500 From: "Donna C" <dcdesign at shield.com> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Glass The Romans had glass for everything, in all shapes, sizes and colors. Lots of cameo-style pieces with layers of glass which were carved to show the different colors. The Byzantine samples that are extant are small cups (about the size of a small tumbler) in a variety of colors with enamelling on them. Usually religious scenes. The Middle Eastern glassware is very elegant with lots of scrollwork designs. They also had lots of everyday items made from glass. The same books as my last message include information on these styles. --------------------------------------------------------- Donna Cunningham DCdesigns & Illustrations Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 18:38:34 -0500 From: Roberta R Comstock <froggestow at juno.com> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: glass jars One notable point regarding early period glass is that it was often treated as a stone and carved. Early pieces formed from molten glass were usually quite small. Look at the pictures of early glass ware and medieval glass. Glass jars and bottles as we know them today bear little resemblance to any examples of medieval glass that I have seen in either museums or books. Even glass jars from 150 years ago are notably different from modern ones. Hertha Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 23:34:37 EDT From: <LrdRas at aol.com> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: glass jars froggestow at juno.com writes: << Look at the pictures of early glass ware and medieval glass. Glass jars and bottles as we know them today bear little resemblance to any examples of medieval glass that I have seen in either museums or books. >> I beg to differ. There is exquisite hand blown glass examples at the cloisters and several pictures clearly show people drinking from thin long stemmed bulbous based flasks. Renaissance glassware is absolutely beautiful and delicate as is some produced in the Ottoman empire. Ras Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 09:13:56 -0500 (CDT) From: "Pixel, Queen of Cats" <pixel at hundred-acre-wood.com> To: "INTERNET:sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu> Subject: Re: Glass containers While we're on the topic, has anyone besides me gotten a look at the latest Museum of London book, _The Medieval Household_? It's got fragments and pieces of urinals, glass oil lamps, and drinking cups, including fragments of an enameled drinking cup. Really nifty. One of the things I remember is that the urinals were made of blue glass to better facilitate diagnosis, and were imported. English-made glass tended to be greenish. Margaret FitzWilliam Tor Aerie/Nordskogen From: David M. Razler <david.razler at worldnet.att.net> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: period stained glass Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 11:26:43 -0400 pdruss at aol.com (P D RUSS) wrote: | Has anyone done any period stained glass and have some displayed on a web | site? | Tamara <authentigrouch emerges> Well I guess you mean period technique and ornamental leaded glass. STAINED glass is glass that is composed of bits of white or colored glass in lead came forming the outline of a picture, in which the detail has been added by the application of silver nitrate stain to the individual pieces of glass, which are then heated to develop a yellow-to dark brown line. Enameled glass is the same stuff where non-staining opaque paints are used. Ornamental leaded glass can combine both of those techniques, along with a myriad of others in producing quite fantastic works of art. d/A David M. Razler david.razler at worldnet.att.net From: Darice Moore <magistra at tampabay.rr.com> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Early Period Glassware/Feastware Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 05:15:36 GMT Organization: RoadRunner - TampaBay hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu wrote: > If you don't mind spending a little money, there's a company associated > with the Stockholm museum that creates accurate historic glassware from > Scandinavia and Germany. I ran into some folks at the recent West Kingdom > Crown who are importing the stuff -- contact them at > <charding at nwlink.com>. You won't get thrift-store prices, but you _can_ > get as authentic a Viking beaker as you'd ever care to get drunk out of! You can order the glass through the Web too, and there's more than just Viking there: http://www.northerner.com/histglass.html The history glass goes all the way through the Renaissance. It's expensive (more for shipping than for some of the items - a "rush cup" will set you back $12 + $15 or so for shipping. My husband and my soon-to-be Laurel each ordered me a Frankish glass for the holidays - luckily, they each ordered a different style. The glasses are works of art, incredibly beautiful - and very attention-getting. - Clotild of Soissons Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 12:01:52 -0400 From: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu> Organization: Windmaster's Hill, Atlantia, and the GDH Subject: Glasscraftsman I happened to be at our coronation this weekend for Atlantia and saw a rather rare glass craftsman. I've only seen one better and he did claw beakers. That was a long time ago. Historical Glassworks by Arab Boy Jason Klein 1600 Yale Place Brick, N.J. 098723 (732) 458 1157 This person had various drinking horns in pale green and green glass. Some were wound in colored glass threads. He also had the kinds of small bowls suitable for cups, lamps or small bowls you don't usually see. The drinking horns were tough enough to take a drop from several feet onto the ground and not break. He also had various styles of beakers. But I didn't see any clawed beakers. I don't think he's attempted those speaking with him. The prices seemed reasonable. I'm not associated in any way, but this is rather a rarity. If some of you folks were looking for such stuff this is an opportunity. Anyway it was worth noting. Magnus Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 09:45:31 -0400 From: "Susan J. Evans" <woofies at worldnet.att.net> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Stained glass links Here are the stained glass links I have. I'm assuming you mean the "stained" as in "painted and fired in a kiln" type glass? Susannah Potter http://www.bsmgp.org.uk/ http://www.artglass-source.com/ http://www.warner-criv.com/ http://www.artglass1.com/about.htm http://stainedglass.org/ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 08:33:27 -0700 From: Lynn Meyer <LMeyer at netbox.com> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: stained glass URL's--?? From: "Patricia Hefner" <patricia.hefner at worldnet.att.net> >Does anyone know of any good Web sites on either stained glass or period >glassmaking in general? If you do please let me know. Thanks in advance. > >Isabelle de Foix A SCAdian has put together a bibliography on sourcebooks for glassworkers at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/7249/bibliography.html and a list of historic and modern glass links at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/7249/glinks.html There's an SCA glass-workers' list (primarily bead-makers, but not all) -- to join, send a message with the word subscribe in the body to compagnia-digest-request at phosphor-ink.com In service, Halima modern: Lynn Meyer, Silicon Valley, northern CA, USA SCA: Halima de la Lucha, Crosston, Mists, West Subject: ANST - Venetian Glass Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 18:56:30 -0500 From: "jeffery.hartley" <jeffery.hartley at worldnet.att.net> To: "ansteorra list" <ansteorra at ansteorra.org> The current issue of American Laboratory, one of those free mags I get at work because they are loaded with adds, has a short article entitled "Archeological exploration with the electron microprobe: The early history of glassmaking in the Venetian lagoon". They compare the analysis of glass from three different time periods. If anyone would like a copy, contact me personally and I will attempt to send a PDF file to you. Geof Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 10:46:35 -0400 From: jah at twcny.rr.com Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Andalusian measurements To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org The Corning Glass museum a year or so ago had original weights that were kind of a green glass, and one was a "ratl"! It was very enlighting to see. Jules/Catalina Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 22:29:32 -0500 From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Period Glass To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Gentle Cousins, I am not in the habit of advertising for a merchant, and would not do so here except that this is an exceptional find that I feel compelled to share with you. Though not part of the SCA, this individual creates period objects in glass, and, even with the shipping charges, his prices are quite exceptional. His work is all handblown and ranges from Roman times through the Renaissance. All of it is documentable and beautifully done. If you'd care to see his work, you can go to his web site at http://www.a-best.cz/onlineshop/index.html He is a very good person to work with, taking care of orders very promptly...they usually take 7 - 10 days to arrive. I will have an example of his work with me at Atlantian Twelfth Night if you are going to be there and want to see his work "up close and personal"...a pair of oil lamps that are made of glass with a wrought iron stand. Kiri Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:55:49 -0500 From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net> Subject: [Sca-cooks] [Fwd: Happy Christmas] To: Cooks withn the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Several of you asked about the web site for the glassblower from Czechoslovakia...I passed your thoughts on to him, and here is is response. If you want to order from him, I suggest that you send him an e-mail with the item number and price. What he does for me is takes my information, figures out shipping costs, etc., and lets me know what I owe him...this I pay through PayPal, a very simple, secure site for this purpose. If you have any further ideas or comments, either let him know or let me know and I'll pass them on. Kiri From: "Artemisia" <kerribernhard at comcast.net> Newsgroups: alt.crafts.blacksmithing,rec.org.sca,alt.fairs.renaissance Subject: Re: Drinking Vessels of Bygone Days Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 19:00:10 -0800 "Jeffs/Etc." <jeff_suzuki at yahoo.com> wrote: > Out of curiosity, anyone know of a site with good pictures of period > glassware? (In particular, I'm looking for the painted glassware that > is awfully reminiscent of the souvenir glasses you can buy at any major > tourist attraction...) > > Jeffs/etc. This isn't a website, but if you can get ahold of a copy of "Glass of the Sultans" by The Metropolitan Museum of Art and The Corning Museum of Glass, it has a lot of great painted islamic glass. The cover art is a painted glass with colorful birds. Here are a couple of links from CMoG.org http://www.cmog.org/usr/Catalog/99/99_1_1_lg.jpg A painted bowl from the 9th century http://www.cmog.org/usr/Catalog/53/53_3_38_lg.jpg European painted glass from Venice 1500-1525 From the Met... http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/slpg/hd_slpg.htm Stained, or Luster-Painted, Glass from Islamic Lands Also try The British Museum at www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk - I did a quick search on painted drinking glass and got 7 examples. The Germans were real big on painted glass too. Do a Google on "Humpen" and you should find lots of examples. <the end> Edited by Mark S. Harris glasswork-msg Page 24 of 24