glasswork-msg - 8/31/09
Stained glass, glass etching. glassblowing. glassbeads.
NOTE: See also the files: glass-bib, glass-lnks, pottery-msg, enameling-msg, tiles-msg, lampwrk-beads-lnks, beads-msg, ceramics-bib.
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NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
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Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: kreyling at lds.loral.com (Ed Kreyling 6966)
Subject: Re: Glass etching
Organization: Loral Data Systems
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1993 16:25:59 GMT
st1xe at elroy.uh.edu (Brown, Derek S) writes:
>Does anyone know how period glass etching would be?
>
>William Silke (Ansteorra)
Greetings William,
At last a question I know something about! ;^)
Well lets see, your question is a little vague but I'll give it a try. In the
fifteenth to seventeenth centuries period stained glass used a type of glass
called "flashed glass" which was a thin layer (about 1mm) of colored glass
(usually read or blue) placed on a thicker layer of clear glass. Then to aid
in the overall look of the piece some or all of the colored glass was removed
from the colored strata.
See "Stained Glass" by Lawrence Lee or "Windows" by Day.
For clear glass (ie goblet or bottle) etching you can find sources that show
diamond or copper wheel etching. The diamond tip etching was usually done using
a hand tool much like a pen. The process is also called stippling and shading
in some books. You can get a good starter kit from a Swiss company called
"TB glass etching tools". I have found them in some of the larger craft stores. But they are hard to find. I have heard but not yet seen documentation on
apprentice driven rotating diamond tip etching tools. (Much like dremmel tools
diamond wheel glass etching tools. Except that I do not believe the period
machine reached the speeds achieved by dremmel. ;^)) I cannot remember the
source I used for my documentation at the moment but I believe the title was
simple "Glass Etching".
I hope this answers your question. If your question was more of a how intricate
or how good did it look? I can site an example where Germany wanted to start a
German glass guild in the 16th century. After some negotiations with Venice
including non-competition agreements in certain areas, Venice sent Germany a
large glass bowl with all the instructions engraved arround the bowl for the
construction and use of a glass works. The pictorials described in detail how
to build the kilns, how much wood and rushes to cut for the work, glass mixture
formulas ...
Let me know if I can help further. I have some instructional materials, on
paper not glass ;^). That I would be glad to mail you if you can send me
your postal address.
I have a Laurel in Stained and Etched glass.
Erik.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ed Kreyling | Master Erik of Telemark O.L.,O.P.
kreyling at world.lds.loral.com | Shire of Brineside Moor
Sarasota,Fl. USA | Kingdom of Trimaris, SCA
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: UCCXDEM <UCCXDEM at MVS.UCC.OKSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Glass etching
Organization: Oklahoma State University Computer Center, Stillwater OK
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 15:04:00 GMT
>Well lets see, your question is a little vague but I'll give it a try. In the
>fifteenth to seventeenth centuries period stained glass used a type of glass
>called "flashed glass" which was a thin layer (about 1mm) of colored glass
>(usually read or blue) placed on a thicker layer of clear glass. Then to aid
>in the overall look of the piece some or all of the colored glass was removed
>from the colored strata.
>
>See "Stained Glass" by Lawrence Lee or "Windows" by Day.
>Erik.
Greetings unto the Rialto and unto Master Erik from Marke.
I beg to differ on the definition on flashed glass. The base glass was
a 'muff' glass which was a white color ( not clear .) My sources are
_Stained Glass_ by Sarah Brown, curator and restoration of stained
glass. London and _De Diversis Artibus_ by Theophilus, a translation
The treatise by Theophilus is a period manuscript written in the 12th
century.
Marke
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: kreyling at lds.loral.com (Ed Kreyling 6966)
Subject: Re: Glass etching
Organization: Loral Data Systems
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 14:56:46 GMT
In article <19931012090452UCCXDEM at MVS.UCC.OKSTATE.EDU> UCCXDEM <UCCXDEM at MVS.UCC.OKSTATE.EDU> writes:
>Greetings unto the Rialto and unto Master Erik from Marke.
>I beg to differ on the definition on flashed glass. The base glass was
>a 'muff' glass which was a white color ( not clear .) My sources are
>_Stained Glass_ by Sarah Brown, curator and restoration of stained
> glass. London
>and
>_De Diversis Artibus_ by Theophilus, a translation
>The treatise by Theophilus is a period manuscript written in the 12th
>century.
> Marke
Quite right, I was having a time cramp. I have not found any flashed glass
on white, except black on white. The three most available colors in this
area are red, blue, or green on clear glass. If you engrave them with diamond
or copperwheel engravers the effect is a snowy looking backround (not clear).
Erik.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ed Kreyling | Master Erik of Telemark O.L.,O.P.
kreyling at world.lds.loral.com | Shire of Brineside Moor
Sarasota,Fl. USA | Kingdom of Trimaris, SCA
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: kreyling at lds.loral.com (Ed Kreyling 6966)
Subject: Re: Glass etching ???
Organization: Loral Data Systems
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1993 23:43:35 GMT
In article st1xe at jane.uh.edu (William Silke) writes:
>Does anyone know how period glass etching is? I would think the Middle
>Eastern countries might have glass etching since their chemistry
>(i.e. alchemy) seemed more advanced than Western Europe for most of
>history. Anyone?
>
>William Silke (Ansteorra)
I have been able to find documentation of Diamond tipped engraving; copper
wheel engraving; and a process called abration. But I can not seem to find
any dates on acid etching. Every book I have on glass mentions the dangers
of acid etching "don't try this at home" but none of the books gives a date
for the beginning of acid etching.
Erik.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ed Kreyling | Master Erik of Telemark O.L.,O.P.
kreyling at world.lds.loral.com | Shire of Brineside Moor
Sarasota,Fl. USA | Kingdom of Trimaris, SCA
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: beckum at aol.com (BECKUM)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Info on Glass Blowing needed!
Date: 24 Jun 1995 15:11:12 -0400
Your in luck, here is the address of my Baron whom does glass blowing as
well as stained \ leaded glass work and glass beads:
Syr Thomas ap Llewellyn
MKA: Thomas Williams
10160 Allen Rd.
Pickerington, OH 43147
E-Mail address:
tjw at cblph.att.com
Best of Luck
Beckum
From: david.razler at compudata.com (DAVID RAZLER)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Spectacles
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 95 01:57:00 -0400
Organization: Compu-Data BBS -=- Turnersville, NJ -=- 609-232-1245
VG>I seem to remember seeing something on period
VG>sunglasses...actually they should have been possible, if
VG>you can make stained-glass windows, you can make colored
VG>lenses--any color...
VG>Ellsbeth Lachlanina MacLabhruinn
The photophobe here - Thanks but - Yes, dark-colored and
actual "stained" glass* came before glasses, but did they
really exist?
*
Authenticity note here: MOST colored glass bits held
together with lead came are NOT stained glass. It is a
misuse of the word run rampant in our lower-case s society.
Stained glass is clear or colored glass painted with a
solution of silver nitrate dissolved in water and then put
in a kiln - where the chemicals react and produce a
permanent yellow-to-dark-brown color.
The other stuff is beautiful, lasts for centuries if
treated right, but is NOT stained! (it is dyed at the time
of manufacture) Also, a lot of period through modern-day
stuff is painted, colored glass. Look for chipping of old
dark paint to know for sure.
In Trivia
Aleksandr the Traveller
[david.razler at compudata.com]
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com(Elise Fleming )
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period Patterns for Stained glass
Date: 2 Jul 1996 13:06:14 GMT
a013957t at bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us (Kellen Harkins) writes:
>I'm looking for suggestions for locating patterns for stained glass.
Dover Books has (had?) a children's book entitled "Stained Glass" (I
think!). The pages are translucent and one is encouraged to color
them. Most of the pictures are religious but they are copies of actual
stained glass windows.
Alys Katharine
From: Pat McGregor <patriciaX_O_McGregor at ccm.fm.intel.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period Patterns for Stained glass
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 11:05:23 -0700
Organization: Intel IT Technical Publications
Greetings from siobhan!
Lady Kellen Oddsdottir wrote:
>
> I'm looking for suggestions for locating patterns for stained glass. I'd
> prefer not to do straight religious pieces but a small rose window would
> wonderful... Most of the research I've done is all 2nd and 3rd sources...
> Any suggestions?
When last I visited the York Minster, there was some sort of restoration
going on on one of the Seven Sisters. As a part of this, the glass
restoration company had a display of what the patterns they were using
were. Someone had apparently taken many close pictures and then
drawn detailed patterns of the windows.
I asked if there were manuals or patterns existing, and the craftsman
who was talking said that in some churches there were oiled paper
patterns that had apparently been used at one point, but that most
of the patterns disappeared in time.
You might check with York Minster; alternately, perhaps one or more
of our cousins in Drachenwald might know of a guild which might
have more info.
regards,
siobhan
From: Joe Wolf <"JOE.B.WOLF" at conoco.dupont.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: (Bone sewing kit, who can help?) How about glass?
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 09:45:10 -0700
Organization: Conoco, Inc. - IT Sourcing/Purchasing
Sekhmet wrote:
> I recently decided I wanted my whole take-to-events-sewing-kit as period
> as I can get it. I decided I needed a box made out of bone to keep my
> needles in. I'm still looking for information on boneworking, both
> mundane and period, and I was wondering if anyone has come across what
> an actual period sewing kit consisted of? I'm thinking 12th century, but
> information about any time period is welcome.
My Lady (Her Ladyship Teleri ferch Pawl) here in Ansteorra is known for
her lampworked glass beads and bottles. The earliest bottles were
formed by encasing a core with molten glass (not blowing!). She has
small glass bottles, beautifully decorated, that many gentles here use
as needle cases! (Also as salt cellars, perfume/oil containers, etc) She
does merchant these small, and completely period treasures!
(Interesting note: she uses Venetian glass from a factory that has been
in constant production for the past 500 years! So in truth, her
materials are period!)
If you are interested in obtaining a period, small, glass container
contact Teleri at esmitman at ghg.net We have some pictures we could scan
and send via e-mail.
Lord Manfred Wolf mka Joe Wolf
Barony of the StarGate, Ansteorra Houston, TX
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 12:46:36 -0500
From: Caitlin Cheannlaidir <caitlin at phosphor-ink.com>
To: "'sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu'" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: RE: Glass beads
Try:
The History of Beads: From 30,000 BC to th e Present, Lois Sherr Durbin
The Glass Beads of the Prehistoric and Roman Periods in Britain and
Ireland, Margaret Guido
I've got others here on the shelf; what do you already have?
There's a new SCAdian glassworkers' list forming; if you'd like to pose
your question there, you can subscribe by sending "subscribe" in the body
of a message to compagnia-request at phosphor-ink.com.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: johnrose at icubed.com (john rose)
Subject: Re: Acid etched glass
David Serhienko <tigycho at earthlink.net> wrote:
>Is the use of various acid based concoctions for the frosting and
>etching of glass in any sense period?
Acid etch usually uses some variant of hydroflouric acid, which as best I
recall, is not period. Diamond engraving is.
There is another glass etching technique that uses hide glue to create
patterns. You see it as feathery patterns on old office door panes, etc.
The materials and methods are all compatible with the SCA period, but I have
not come across any examples.
The glue method is easy. You paint the glue on, let it air dry, and then bake
the glass to about 150F until the glue desicates. The glass then spalls off as
the glue peels away.
Anybody seen this stuff around anywhere?
Master John the Artificer
From: Eric & Lissa McCollum <ericmc at primenet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Acid etched glass
Date: 29 Jun 1998 22:36:01 -0700
David Serhienko wrote:
> Is the use of various acid based concoctions for the frosting and
> etching of glass in any sense period?
It has been a couple of years since I did the research
so I can't lay my hands on my sources right now--but
no, acid etching of glass is not period. (I'd love
to be proved wrong though!)
That said...diamond engraving of glass *is*. One
source (Glass by George Savage) states that diamond
engraving of glass began in Venice around 1560, and
quickly spread. This advance coincided with an
improvement in the quality of glass produced. The
book has several examples pictured, including a
beaker dated 1594 that pictures the Holy Roman Emporer
Rudolf II and the electors--with their arms. I used
it as documentation to engrave my arms on a drinking
goblet. I picked up the diamond stylus at my local
craft store.
Gwendolen Wold
From: DC <uboru at erols.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Acid etched glass
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 19:00:57 -0400
What's being described is known as "glue chip glass" and should be
readily available from any dealer who carries stained glass materials.
The way it was described to me is that the glue is dropped onto the
glass when it is still in a semi liquid form.
From: Carrie Schutrick <caos+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Acid etched glass
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 11:38:59 -0400
Organization: Housing Services, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
>The glue method is easy. You paint the glue on, let it air dry, and then bake
>the glass to about 150F until the glue desicates. The glass then spalls off as
>the glue peels away.
>Anybody seen this stuff around anywhere?
It's really easy to find in stores that provide stained glass supplies--ask
for "gluechip." You can get it in a variety of degrees of "chippedness,"
and the places with better stock will sell twice- and thrice-chipped glass
as well as once-chipped.
Which brings up an interesting question: what colors and patterns of
stained glass are period? I assume that the fancy Tiffanies, with streamers
and so on, are not period, but are we limited to solid colors? What about
patterns for a piece? All my mother's pattern books are very heavily
Victorian and Art Deco influenced.
--Jeannette de Beauvior
*****Carrie Schutrick--caos at andrew.cmu.edu--Pittsburgh PA--CMU*****
<http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~caos>;
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: johnrose at icubed.com (john rose)
Subject: Re: Acid etched glass
Organization: extrude hone
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 14:36:27 GMT
Carrie Schutrick <caos+ at andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
>>The glue method is easy. You paint the glue on, let it air dry, and then bake
>>the glass to about 150F until the glue desicates. The glass then spalls
>off as
>>the glue peels away.
>
>>Anybody seen this stuff around anywhere?
>
> It's really easy to find in stores that provide stained glass supplies--ask
>for "gluechip." You can get it in a variety of degrees of "chippedness,"
>and the places with better stock will sell twice- and thrice-chipped glass
>as well as once-chipped.
>
> Which brings up an interesting question: what colors and patterns of
>stained glass are period? I assume that the fancy Tiffanies, with streamers
>and so on, are not period, but are we limited to solid colors? What about
>patterns for a piece? All my mother's pattern books are very heavily
>Victorian and Art Deco influenced.
>
>--Jeannette de Beauvior
The glue method for decorating glass involves what is technicaly called
"spalling", which occurs when local stresses are set upm that are parallel to
the surface of the material. It works best on brittle stuff, like glass,
ceramics, stone, and other hard refractory materials. There is a Bob Villa
house show that has a sequence where a mason torches granite slab to provide a
uinform tread area for steps. The glue does the same thing, but without the
bother of a thermal lance.
As the applied hide glue contracts, it stresses the glass, which eventually
spalls off. There are enough accounts of the process to get details. The trick
is to know that what to look for. I've seen "glue etch" and "glue chip". And
larger stained glass stores sell both the hide glue, with directions, and
chipped glass. You can add various salts to the glue, like Epsom, etc, to get
the different effects. I recall that Henley's Home Formulary has a section on
the process.
The question remains: is this technique period? Possible, but I haven't come
across examples or records.
As for colored glass, all the stuff I've seen in England and Italy has been
solid color and transparent, but....
You have the usual basic colors: clear, straw, green, red, yellow, and blue.
The dark stains vary from black to brown, but usually are worn or weathered.
But, in Italy, where I could get close to a lot of glass, I saw a number panes
that were multicolored, usually clear with a tint from the above list. My
guess is that the artist took clear glass, laid out the details in stain on
the inside and painted a non-binding dopant on the outside, then baking the
whole piece for a while. When washed, the dopant would leave behind a diffused
area colored by the appropriate ions. I was surprised when I first saw this
method, as I did not recall a mention of it in my limited readings on stained
glass. It may be that two firings might be needed, one for color and one for
stain. An enamelling kiln should be sufficient.
This tech trail is interesting, as diffusion also shows up in case hardened
steel. Today we make semiconductors. Did James Burke follow this?
Master John the Artificer
From: gyelle at aol.com (Gyelle)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Acid etched glass
Date: 02 Jul 1998 22:03:20 GMT
David Serhienko <tigycho at earthlink.net> writes:
>What a downer ;-) My drawing skills (and I assume diamond stylus
>etchingwould be more difficult than pencil drawing) are sadly lacking,
>although I was hoping
>to shoehorn my ability with a computer into creating a template to etch
>with...
Don't dispair about your lack of drawing ability. Print your design onto
paper/whatever, tape it on the back side of the glass and "trace" it with the
diamond stylus just like you would with a pencil. You can also stipple the
line or make short strokes, etc. to get the effect you want. Remember that you
can shade and texture with the density/closeness of lines and their direction.
Play with it!
Gyelle, the drawing impaired artist
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 15:55:02 -0700
From: Dan Berger <dberger at qnet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Acid etched glass
David Serhienko wrote:
> Is the use of various acid based concoctions for the frosting and
> etching of glass in any sense period?
Well, Tiggy, as has been very comprehensively pointed out, no, acid etch
was not period (for glass). However, that's part of the whimsy of
Anachronism, isn't it?
Another great way to "cheat": Once you've made your pattern on the
computer, burn a silkscreen image and print the design onto the glass
using the acid etch. A little technical skill to develop, but little
artistic skill required :) .
I personally don't like the acid etch much because it only leaves a
two-dimensional image. Note that to this day Waterford Crystal is etched
by hand. If you want to save some time, develop some skill using a
Dremel or similar tool with a diamond point, it cuts deep and fast.
From: gyelle at aol.com (Gyelle)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Acid etched glass
Date: 14 Jul 1998 13:40:15 GMT
In a message dated 98-07-14 01:07:57 EDT, stefan at texas.net writes:
> Thank you for this hint. I have the same problem as David and probably
> would never have tried this. Now I might. I can even see how I could
> use this on glass drinking vessels.
>
> Is there something I should look for in selecting the glass to use for
> this?
I don't know any specifics about choosing glass, most should work. _A Short
History of Glass_ by Chloe Zerwick published by Harry Abrams, Inc. in
association with The Corning Museum of Glass has some great examples. One that
I have thought about doing is a beaker c. 1530 that is diamond scribed with the
signatures of members of a German Guild.
Period glass is so much less limited than most people think. Usually at feasts
you see very plain, clunky glassware, in most of period glass was anything but
plain. 1960's glass (bright clashing streaks and spots, milliflori daisies,
etc) is straight out of 1st C Rome- gawdawful ugly! The bottles that have
molded patterns that are easily available right now were also a hit in Rome.
In Northern Europe there were flourishing forest glasshouses. The clearing of
the forest for fuel greatly impacted the region around them as it cleared land
that could then be used for crops. These glass makers used different
ingredients than the southern ones and produced a distinctive type of glass
with a glossy, soft green hue.
Gyelle Spence
An Tir
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 16:08:11 -0400
From: Caitlin Cheannlaidir <caitlin at phosphor-ink.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: RE: Glass working and wax tablets
>How may I make glass beads, and simple gaming pieces (just drops of
>melted glass)?
There are also a couple of places that sell lampworking kits (all the parts
included) by mailorder. They will ship outside the US.
As the simplest answer to your simplest question, you can use a propane or
MAPP gas torch (available at the hardware store as a plumbers torch) to
melt pieces of broken bottle. If it "drips" onto a smooth surface (think a
baking sheet) you'll get your flat-bottomed droplets. You'll have to
insulate them as they cool so they won't cool unevenly and crack. If you
want more information, see my links below, or join the SCA glassworkers'
email list.
--Caitlin Cheannlaidir
caitlin at phosphor-ink.com
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/7249
Interested in making glass beads?
To join the SCA-Glassworker's List, send "subscribe" as the text of a
message to <compagnia-request at phosphor-ink.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:50:59 +1000
From: Kiriel & Chris <kiriel at cybergal.com>
Subject: Re: SC - feastware question - glass
Someone asked about 10th century glass from I cant remember where.
Glancing through one of my references (glass is one of my things)
I find.. a glorious piece from the 3rd to 4th century ad, they think
made for a greek living in rhineland. Multicoloured and gloriously
delicate. It constantly amazes me the skill and delicacy of period
craftsmen.
I have info on ancient greek, egyptian, syrian, persian, chinese, roman,
Sidonian, alexandrian, byzantine italian, german, frankish, teutonic.
Glass from gaul, Cologne, spain, britain...
Kiriel
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 16:15:49 -0600
From: Helen <him at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Right link for glassware
Sorry, wrong link before, this is the right one for history of glass.
http://www.muranoglass.com/history1.html
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 19:15:35 -0600
From: Helen <him at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Glass history links
http://www.anticamurrinaveneziana.com/history.html
http://www.pennynet.org/glmuseum/Glass/dragon.htm
http://www.pennynet.org/glmuseum/Glass/cmgewer.htm
http://www.pennynet.org/glmuseum/Education/edlux.htm
http://www.pennynet.org/glmuseum/Education/edglmak.htm
http://www.pennynet.org/glmuseum/Education/slab.htm
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 16:01:28 -0500
From: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Celtic Art Site
Celtic Class site, not entirely complete, but -
http://www.unc.edu/courses/art111/celtic/
Use 'art111' and 'celts' for the password and login
Magnus
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 19:47:52 +1100
From: Kiriel & Chris <kiriel at cybergal.com>
Subject: Re: SC - feastware question - glass
I have found the most WONDERFUL site on
the internet. You can buy what look like truly superb replicas of
period glassware. My jaw dropped when I saw some of this glassware, it
was so identical to the originals I have in my books. Check it out!:
http://www.northerner.com/scanglas.html
If I get a credit card, boy oh boy will it take a beating from this
site!
Also of interest to the glassier types is this site on the web, it
contains a brief historical look at glass
http://www.ftech.net/~regia/glass.htm
and this site, which is the remains of a byzantine shipwreck excavation,
which has some interesting things, including a heap of lamps which look
remarkably similar to some that are fashionable right now as candle
holders.
http://nautarch.tamu.edu/INA/sl-glass.htm
Kiriel
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 14:45:13 -0500 (EST)
From: "Charles J. Cohen" <charles at eecs.umich.edu>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Stain Glass Windows
Something that might be of interest.
Many people believe that glass flows like a liquid, although it flows
very slowly so that it can't be seen. The "proof" often given is that
of windows in old cathedrals where the stain glass is thicker at the
bottom than at the top. This idea, that glass is a highly viscous
liquid at room temperatures, has even been quoted in text books.
Unfortunately, this is wrong. Edgar Dutra Zanotto, a professor
materials engineering at the Federal University of Sao Carlos in
Brazil researched this topic. He examined the chemical compositions
of over 350 pieces of glass from 12th century cathedrals, calculated
their viscosity, and then determined their flow rates by extrapolating
the viscosity curves of hot glass to lower temperatures.
According to Zanotto's calculations, the stain glass from 12th century
cathedrals would have to be heated to 414 degrees Celsius to observe
any significant movement in the course of 800 years. At normal room
temperatures, you would have to wait about
100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years to observe
any flow. This is far far longer than the age of the universe!
The question remains: why are cathedral windows thicker at the
bottom? It seems that ancient glass manufacturing methods often
produced ripples and thick edges. The thicker edges may have been
placed on the bottom for extra stability. But, as George Orowan, a
professor at MIT states, "The myth is half true...Half of the glasses
are thicker on the bottom, and the other half are thicker at the top."
[source: Popular science, Sept 1998, p28]
- Midair
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:27:19 -0700
From: "Teri C. Kennedy" <aquarian at infomagic.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Glass bead making
>Lady Morgan the Celt, the arts and sciences officer for the Barony of Ered Sul
>in Atenveldt, does this kind of work. Her e-mail address is
>aquarian at infomagic.com.
>> Or is there a person(s) anyone can
>> recommend whom I can contact? I would like to know about start up tools,
>> reliability of some companies, and historically re-creating a bead forge.
Others have already answered this missive in part, however, one good catalog
contact for tools, glass, etc. is:
Wale Apparatus: 1-800-444-WALE
Morgan
________________________________________________________________
Lady Morgan the Celt (O'Cenneidi), Crafthold de Artemis, MoA&S, CFS, CMS
(Teri Kennedy, BFA)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:48:57 -0700
From: "Cathie" <Jorunn at qadas.com>
To: <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Re: Glass beads-soft glass
>You mentioned that glass was soft enough to melt over an oil lamp , can you
>still get this type ?
>
>Mel
I have a friend who makes glass and has a recipe for soft glass as they made
in the middle ages. As a matter of fact, we are going to the furnace
tomorrow to do a batch and I'm going to help him pull the rods. I'm going
to use these rods at a guild meeting and actually burn them over an oil lamp
to recreate the effort.
As far as the recipe goes, I'll ask him for more detailed information. We
are working together to recreate the process. In most of my research, the
glass was made and rods pulled at one location, then sold to the lampworker
who took them to a different location (in most cases) to make beads, game
pieces, etc. I am forever looking for information.
jorunn
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:16:24 EST
From: <Gingen3 at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Glass and Molds
Well I recently saw the glass blowers at work in Jamestown, Va and they were
using a 2 piece mold for their bottles. It was a money making (Not) industry
for them. Since they were trained artisans/ Craftsmen it came from europe
and this is just at the tag end of our period. A place to start anyway
Lady Geva
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 05:41:05 -0500
From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>
To: LIST SCA arts <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Some Glass refs
Tyson Rachel Caroline
Medieval glass vessels in England AD 1200-1500 a survey
University of Durham 1996
Early glass of the ancient world 1600 B.C.- A. D. 50 E. Marianne Stern,
Birgit Schlick-Nolte. c1994
Roman glass in Britain Denise Allen. 1998
Five thousand years of glass edited by Hugh Tait. c1991
Glass beads cultural history, technology, experiment and analogy. 1995
Dictionary of glass materials and techniques Charles Bray. 1995
The westerly trade of southeast Asia from c. 440 BC to c. 500 AD with
special reference to glass beads. 1991
Mel
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:05:08 -0500
From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>
To: LIST Glass Beads <compagnia at phosphor-ink.com>
Cc: LIST SCA arts <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: UK Glass rod supplier
For anyone else out there in the UK I have finally found a supplier for
EFFETRE glass rods:
Schott Glass 01785 223166 speak to Karen Bromley, it is sold by the kilo so
if anyone is just starting and wants to share a load contact me.
Mel
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:01:03 -0600
From: <marsha.greene at mpan.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: RE: StainGlass-Celtic Knots
>My wife would be interested in the comercial designs you have found. I
>would be very interested in any historic examples you find. I fear that
>the Roundheads particularly targeted both stained glass and Irish knotwork
>(along with any other Irish cultural example they could find). The orgy of
>16th century Puritian destruction has deprived us of a lot of our
>heratage.
>Charles O'Connor
>jphughes at raven.cc.ukans.edu
I knew someone would ask, so I went out to my car at lunch to get the
packet. Its labeled 'Full Size Stain Glass Patterns, Celtic Creations',
contains 12 patterns, mostly knots, three animals. By Sunlight Studio, 52
Yardley Place, London, Ontario, Canada. Phone (519) 657-2409, fax
(519)657-8704 ISBN # 0-9680635-4-3 (not a book, but paper patterns),
1998. You probably have to buy from a retailer, not direct from company.
I had a hard time getting it, my local Stain Glass store in Houston, TX
('Prisms' - 281-531-8551, Bob Webb), had to convince the distributor that
customers would want to buy this packet, not just Victoriana patterns. It
ran $14.95 retail. Good luck finding it.
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 08:26:50 -0800
From: Mary Haselbauer <slaine at stlnet.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Stained glass and celtic knotwork
>Recently, a modern StainGlass pattern company came out with a Celtic
>Knotwork selection, which I snapped up. I am intending to make some
>windows for prizes. I would like to find historical examples where
>knotwork was used in StainGlass windows. Try as I may, I have not found
>any from the book sources I have for throughout Europe (and I have a pretty
>extensive book collection). Most of the designs are Romanesque or Gothic.
>Any sources out there with better info. Many thanks for your help.
>Baroness Hillary Rose Greenslade Canton of Westgate/Barony of
>Stargate/Ansteorra
In general the people who used Celtic knotwork used it on portable things such
as jewelry and manuscripts. They were people on the move and that's why that
era is called the migration period. (Stone crosses would be an exception.) The
churches in Ireland, at least, did not have much in the way of windows. Gothic
churches churches came out of a different tradition, not knotwork. However,
something stuck in my mind about a window with an knotwork pattern on it.
In my one little book on stained glass windows there is a 13th century
monochromatic window with an interlace pattern. It's at a Cistercian monastery
where they had rules against the multicolored figural windows that were popular
elsewhere. I suppose they chose this design because it was decorative (but not
too decorative) rather than having a specific connection to Celtic lands or
learning.
The book is Medieval Stained Glass by Heribert Hutter, translated by Margaret
Shenfield. New York: Crown Publisher, 1963. plate 11.
I'm not the sort of person who goes ballistic when knotwork/interlace patterns
show up in later period pieces. Who'd a thunk it would appear in a
13th century Austrian monestery. Those Irish monks got around.
Slaine
Subject: Glass of the Roman Empire
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 99 17:30:23 MST
From: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>
To: stefan at texas.net,
bibliofind profile for Hacker Art Books, Inc.
Linda Hacker, Hacker Art Books, Inc., 45 West 57 Street, , New York, New York
10019-1034 USA Tel: 212-688-7600 Fax: 212-754-2554 Email Address:
hackerartbooks at infohouse.com
The title you selected is:
David Whitehouse.: GLASS OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE. ; From the stellar collection of the Corning Museum of Glass in Corning, New York, this selection of 24
magnificent pieces made by a variety of techniques, including casting, lathe-cutting, polishing, cameo glass and blowing. Each piece is an important work, as well as a fine example of the continuum of Roman arts. Each is annotated in detail, with an introduction on the development of Roman glass. Softbound, 8-1/4x9, 60pp., 24 color plates, glossary, bib.
Corning, N.Y., 1988. Specially priced at 9190 USD4.95
View the Hacker Art Books, Inc. Home Page at www.bibliofind.com
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 23:13:25 -0400
From: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Some Glass Resources
Since I was doing these links for one person, why not share.
Glasswork and Beading
http://www.inspirationfarm.com/gg/articles/supplies.html
http://www.larkbooks.com/home.nav/lb/supplies_beading.html
http://www.regia.org/glass.htm
http://members.aol.com/anniebee2/links.htm
http://www.el-dorado.ca.us/~flameon/
http://www.innercite.com/~flameon/welcome.html
http://www.innercite.com/~flameon/catalog/catalog.html
http://www.mickelsenstudios.com/articles.htm
http://elaine.teleport.com/~paulec/beadbooks.html
http://www.teleport.com/~paulec/beadbooks.html
http://www.teleport.com/~paulec/beadcatalogs.html
http://www.mcs.net/~simone/beadfairies.html
http://www.mcs.net/~simone/bres.html
http://www.mcs.net/~simone/beadnet.html
http://www.inspirationfarm.com/gg/articles/article1.html
http://www.inspirationfarm.com/gg/articles/articles.html
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/7249/bibliography.html
http://www.craftweb.com/org/enamel/enamel.htm
http://www.eurotool.com/beadnet.htm
http://www.teleport.com/~paulec/beadshops.html
http://www.ghgcorp.com/esmitman/
http://www.olywa.net/frantzbead/
http://www.olywa.com/frantzbead/
http://www.a1server.com/beadluv/index.html
http://cgi.exo.com/~jht/forum/index.cgi?noframes
http://www.teleport.com/~paulec/glassbeadmakingFAQ.html
http://www.hotglass.com/adindx.html
http://www.hotglass.com/index.html
http://exo.com/~jht/hotglass/access/vol9/v9n3.html#2a
http://www.inspirationfarm.com/index.html
http://www.sound-check.com/beads/
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/7249/glinks.html
http://www.dnaco.net/~scababe/medievalbead/
http://beadwork.about.com/library/weekly/aa050499.htm?PM=69_6_T&;cob=home
http://www.inspirationfarm.com/gg/articles/safety.html
http://www.commnet.edu/QVCTC/student/crowe/lingo.html
http://www.hotglass.com/hacker/hacker.html
http://www.psrc.usm.edu/macrog/
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MikeFirth/
http://www.gpnet.it/marketti/ermor/home.htm
http://www.teleport.com/~paulec/resources.html
http://www.steinertindustries.com/
http://www.artglass1.com/index.htm
http://home.ici.net/~beowulf/jessica/beadwork/
M. Magnus Malleus, OL, Atlantia, GDH
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 23:03:44 EDT
From: <LrdRas at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Disguising jar lids
nn3_shay at yahoo.com writes:
<<I just have the recollection that glass was pretty much a luxury item. >>
According to the guides at the Cloisters this is inaccurate. Glass dishes,
cups, goblets were commonly used and when they broke they were collected and
remelted and used. Fancy ornate things like salt cellars of spun glass, etc.,
were rare and costly. However, common glass objects were relatively cheap and
commonly available.
Ras
Date: 2 Jul 99 10:01:27 -0500
From: "Donna C" <dcdesign at shield.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Glass
I have been recently researching glass and glass-making.
According to my books (listed below); a very crude glass, used for
every day rather than display was made in England from the 13th
century; Germany, France and the Low Countries (Liege and Brussels)
from the 9th century. Most of their glass was impure and therefore had
a slight green or blue tinge to it. Very similar to the cheap
hand-blown glass we get from Mexico.
Venetian glass was considered the finest in the world throughout most
of our time period and was of course costly to own. The Venetian
glass-making guild was formed in the early 1200's. Which means that
they were making glass before that, they just weren't organized yet.
I am assuming that you wanted information on European glass and not
any of the Middle Eastern, Byzantine, or Roman stuff.
Books:
A short History of Glass
By Cloe Zerwick
ISBN 0-8109-3801-4
Glass from Antiquity to the Renaissance
By Giovanni Mariacher
ISBN 600338083
The History of Glass
By Dan Klein and Ward Lloyd
ISBN 0-517-68910 3
Glass
By Paul Vickers Gardner
LOC 78-62735
(This one doesn't have an ISBN)
Hope this helps,
Galla Cunningham
---------------------------------------------------------
Donna Cunningham
DCdesigns & Illustrations
512/259-9682
dcdesign at shield.com
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: 2 Jul 99 11:45:50 -0500
From: "Donna C" <dcdesign at shield.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Glass
The Romans had glass for everything, in all shapes, sizes and colors.
Lots of cameo-style pieces with layers of glass which were carved to
show the different colors.
The Byzantine samples that are extant are small cups (about the size
of a small tumbler) in a variety of colors with enamelling on them.
Usually religious scenes.
The Middle Eastern glassware is very elegant with lots of scrollwork
designs. They also had lots of everyday items made from glass.
The same books as my last message include information on these styles.
---------------------------------------------------------
Donna Cunningham
DCdesigns & Illustrations
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 18:38:34 -0500
From: Roberta R Comstock <froggestow at juno.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: glass jars
One notable point regarding early period glass is that it was often
treated as a stone and carved. Early pieces formed from molten glass
were usually quite small.
Look at the pictures of early glass ware and medieval glass.
Glass jars and bottles as we know them today bear little resemblance to
any examples of medieval glass that I have seen in either museums or
books.
Even glass jars from 150 years ago are notably different from modern
ones.
Hertha
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 23:34:37 EDT
From: <LrdRas at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: glass jars
froggestow at juno.com writes:
<< Look at the pictures of early glass ware and medieval glass.
Glass jars and bottles as we know them today bear little resemblance to
any examples of medieval glass that I have seen in either museums or
books. >>
I beg to differ. There is exquisite hand blown glass examples at the
cloisters and several pictures clearly show people drinking from thin long
stemmed bulbous based flasks. Renaissance glassware is absolutely beautiful
and delicate as is some produced in the Ottoman empire.
Ras
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 09:13:56 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Pixel, Queen of Cats" <pixel at hundred-acre-wood.com>
To: "INTERNET:sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Re: Glass containers
While we're on the topic, has anyone besides me gotten a look at the
latest Museum of London book, _The Medieval Household_?
It's got fragments and pieces of urinals, glass oil lamps, and drinking
cups, including fragments of an enameled drinking cup. Really nifty.
One of the things I remember is that the urinals were made of blue glass
to better facilitate diagnosis, and were imported. English-made glass
tended to be greenish.
Margaret FitzWilliam
Tor Aerie/Nordskogen
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 08:41:38 -0400
From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Glass
<<< I'm not going to dispute the idea that ceramic containers were more
co9mmon than glass. However, we've certainly found a number of
applications of glass in containers documented. A brief hunt through our
collection turns up examples of: (From _Glass: 5000 Years_) lots of very
early period glass (Roman Empire), quantities of Middle Eastern Glass--
jars, flasks, bottles-- >>>
Yes early glass is seen, and glass drinking vessels, but due to economic
trends it declines in the medieval period (say 1000ad ish ) until the 15th
16th C when it creeps back in. This is particularly true of England. One of
the probable reasons from this is the demand for Window glass for churches,
the Church being one of the glasshouses biggest customers it lead the
trend. Glass Chalices were banned by the Church several times in this
period too.
<<< and Venetian Bottles ('The only type of glass
specifically mentioned in the 1271 Capitolare are glass weights, BOTTLES
and beakers' p. 149)-- bottles in late period 15th-16th century Germany
and Bohemia. >>>
Outside England- I really cannot go further afield as I neither have the
time or inclination, exact information about one area is too great to know
everything, let alone every country of the world at every specific time.
Although interesting I'm sure, it isn't relevant to my persona or my
studies. Sorry !
<<<_Glass: 5000 Years_ quotes Agricola' De Re Metallico (1559):
'Glassmeen make a variety of ojects: cups, phials, pitchehers, globular
bottles, dishes, saucers, mirrors, animals, trees, ships...' >>>
Outside Medieval period
<<<_Glass in Czechoslovakia_ has some interesting examples, also.
What I really find intriguing is the illustrations in Rj Charleston's
_English Glass_ of early period 'squat jars' and 'pouch bottles' which
look like modern jars to me but which he identifies as drinking vessels. >>>
I don't have this ref, but what century & are they the round bottomed palm
drinking vessels ?
Other container refs I've found are lamps, things to wee in for urine
examination !, and the odd medicine bottle etc. For this period.
Mel
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 16:19:59 -0400
From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>
To: LIST SCA arts <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Glass
Rachael Tyson who completed a Survey of Medieval Glass vessels in England states in 1996:
"The sites included high status castles, manors and palaces; monastic and
other ecclesiastical sites; and affluent urban residences. Surprisingly ,
no glass was found to have been used on less wealthy sites"
The study covered 1200-1500, over 1200 vessels from 200 sites across
England were included.
A planned Handbook of Medieval Glass vessels is to be expected in due
course !
This suggest glass was NOT in common usage [in England], once again.
Mel
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 13:06:04 -0500 (CDT)
From: Lorine S Horvath <lhorvath at plains.NoDak.edu>
To: "INTERNET:sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Re: Glass
Tarrach here. In answer to Mel's question, at least some of the round
bottom drinking vessels were found in 7th century Northern European
contexts. I don't have the referneces here at work, but there is a paper
by Evison on Anglo-Saxon Glass that documents them and another paper by
Nasman (?) on Vendel period glass (both 7th century).
> I don't have this ref, but what century & are they the round bottomed palm
> drinking vessels ?
>
> Mel
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 04:22:24 -0400
From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Glass
<<< Tarrach here. In answer to Mel's question, at least some of the round
bottom drinking vessels were found in 7th century Northern European
contexts. I don't have the referneces here at work, but there is a paper
by Evison on Anglo-Saxon Glass that documents them and another paper by
Nasman (?) on Vendel period glass (both 7th century). >>>
Hi yes I found the Anglo Saxon refs and there was undoubtedly a greater use
of drinking vessels of Glass IN ENGLAND and elsewhere on continental
Europe in the AS period, this is well documented and in mentioned in most
arguments describing the decline of the vessel as the flat glass demanded
by the church for windows took over. The (for memory) Syrian vessel makers
gradually moved elsewhere.
The AS period it very interesting as regards the study of the claw beaker
and the excesses it went to !
Have you a copy of the Evison paper, I've read most of her stuff.
Mel
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 08:06:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jenne Heise <jenne at tulgey.browser.net>
To: "INTERNET:sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Re: Glass
All the quotes and descriptions here reference:
_English Glass and the glass used in England, circa 400-1940_, by R.J.
Charleston. London: George Allen and Unwin, 1984. (Part of the English
Decorative arts series) ISBN: 0-04-748003-3.
(Note: I haven't read the whole thing, and bear in mind that it's 15 years
old.)
On Wed, 14 Jul 1999, Melanie Wilson wrote:
> Yes early glass is seen, and glass drinking vessels, but due to economic
> trends it declines in the medieval perios (say 1000ad ish ) until the 15th
> 16th C when it creeps back in. This is particularly true of England. One of
> the probable reasons from this is the demand for Window glass for churches,
> the Church being one of the glasshouses biggest customers it lead the
> trend. Glass Chalices were banned by the Church several times in this
> period too.
Charleston says (p. xxvii-xxviii):
"No uniform treatment of the subject is strictly possible, for until we
come to relatively recent time the suriviv evidence is partial and
unevenly balanced. Thus for the pagan Saxon period we have relative
abundance of intact glasses from burials and thus an exact idea of the
glasses used; whereas from the later Saxon era it is only possible to
interpret the sparse fragments from occupation sites by comparison with
the intact vessels surviving from pagan Scandinavia. Of documentary
evidence there is virtually nothing. In the post-Conquest period before
1200 there if effectively a total blank. From that point onwards, the
resources of modern archaelogy have brought to light an increasing body of
material evidence, including the physical remains for some fo the
glasshouses which are known to have existed in the Surry/Sussex Weald and
elsewhere. Particularly important for our ideas about the glass used in
the Middle Ages has been the discovery, in securely date thirteenth- to
fourteenth century contexts, of fine glasses made in a virtually
colourless material, hitherto regarded as impossible before the middle of
the fifteenth century in Venice. Fruthermore, this material was worked
into graceful forms of extreme fragility, though it was almost certainly
not of English manufacture. It has, nevertheless, seemed imperative to
include this evidence so that the reader may be able to visualise what
matter of glasses graced the tables of the wealthy and powerful at a time
whtn the English glasshouses themselves were capable of producing no more
than utilitarian wares-- bottles, lamps, urinals, distilling equipment and
second-grade window-glass-- in a technically imperfect green 'forest'
glass."
> >_Glass: 5000 Years_ quotes Agricola' De Re Metallico (1559):
> 'Glassmeen make a variety of ojects: cups, phials, pitchehers, globular
> bottles, dishes, saucers, mirrors, animals, trees, ships...'
> Outside Medieval period
Oops. Hope I'm not boring the non-SCAdians on the list... of course we go
to 1600.
> >_Glass in Czechoslovakia_ has some interesting examples, also.
> What I really find intriguing is the illustrations in Rj Charleston's
> _English Glass_ of early period 'squat jars' and 'pouch bottles' which
> look like modern jars to me but which he identifies as drinking vessels.
> I don't have this ref, but what century & are they the round bottomed palm
> drinking vessels ?
Charleston distinguishes between the squat jars and the palm cups:
"The remaining 'early' forms appear to die out in the sixth century, their
places being taken by two new shapes which, by their squat proportions,
contrast with the growing height of the drinking-beakers already
enumerated. These new shapes are the squat jar and the palm-cup. The squat
jar-- no doubt suggested by gourds such as the mounted examples found at
Sutton Hoo-- probably first appeared in the sixth century but its heyday
is in the seveth. The palm-cup, on the other hand, which has numerous
parallels on the Continent, seems to have flourished largely in the sixth
century, the earliest for being a hemispherical come with a rounded rim,
usually decorated with vertical mould-blown ribbing..."
"... a similar picture is presented by another seventh-century form-- the
'pouch-bottle'-- which, in squatter versions, almost overlaps the squate
jar."
Charleston mentions and illustrates a wide variety of beakers, bottles,
jars, and cups.
Among them are:
Plate 3b: Squat jar [which may or may not have a flat bottom; it is a
round-bellied container with a slightly narrowed neck and flared lip,
decorated with strings of glass] Pagans Hill, Somerset, Probably seventh
to eighth century. H. 8.65 cm.
Plate 5b. Pouch bottle [more rounded at the bottom; probably could not
stand alone but the applied glass strings might have stabilized it.
Spherical bottom tapering to a narrower neck and slightly flared lip.]
>From Bungay, Suffolk. Probably seventh century. H. 12.7 cm.
Plate 5d. Beaker [This looks almost like a crock, until you realize that
the rounded bototm is clear glass. It appears to have small flat bit at
the bottom. The taper to the neck is slight.] From Birka, Sweden. probably
Rehish; first half of tenth century. H. 6.1 cm.
Plate 6a. Beaker. [which looks just like the pouch bottle, except that it
clearly has a flat bit on the bottom to stand on.]From Birka, Sweden.
Probably Rhenish, ninth century. h. 10.2 cm.
Plate 6b. Squat jar. [This looks almost exactly as we expect jars to look:
flat bottom the width of the jar, slight bellying of the bottom bit,
tapering up to a smaller neck, no flaring of the lip. I could probably
find something like this-- though without the 'faint mould-blown
ribbing'-- in Pier 1.) 'Allegedly found under ht pavement in from of the
High Altar of Shaftesbury Abbey. Probably tenth to eleventh century. H
7.3cm.
(I's interesting that the text makes no mention of how the
historians/archaelogists decided that these vessels, which have the
bottle-like shape that we generally avoid in drinking cups, are drinking
vessels..)
*grin* now that Mel has piqued my interest, I'm hot on the trail of
central European and German glasses. Anyone know of any good cites?
Jadwiga Zajaczkowa (Shire of Eisental), mka Jennifer Heise
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:31:28 PDT
From: "Cynthia deWickeresham" <cynthiadew at hotmail.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Glass
I would like to recommend "Antique Drinking Glasses" formerly titled Old
English Glasses by Albert Hartshorne, Pub. Brussel & Brussel, 1967. It
calls itself a pictorial history of glass dringing vessels, but has a great
deal of text on early (pre-16th C) stuff. Great footnotes and bibliography,
too!
The other is the journals from the Corning Museum, "Glass". Should be
available in some University libraries. EXCELLENT sources for information
on the development of glass in the various areas.
Did the making of glass for windows overtake the making of glass vessels in
England? No. It just depends on what/where, are the Glassworks you are
studing. As a glassblower I can tell you that for production purposes the
making of panes of glass differs greatly from vessels. Where the skill
involved in making the round disc's of glass is a relativily simple process.
Making larger panes of glass takes a slightly more technically advanced
shop (requiring larger and differently shaped annealer ovens, etc). Pane
glass requires the making of large(or largeish) cylinders and needs a method
of flattening the glass. Making window glass is easier that making vessels,
much easier.
Now with that think about what you think of medieval church glass, clear
panes of glass, or colored (or stained) glass windows. It wasn't unitl the
7th Century that you find references to clear panes of glass used in
churches.
Bede wrote this reference to glass about Benedict Biscop of his church at
Wearmouth in 675:
When the work was drawing to completion, he sent messengers to
Gaul to fetch makers of glass, or more properly artificers, who were
at this time unknown in Britain, that they might glaze the windows of his
church, with the cloisters and refectory. This was done and they
came, and they not only finished the work required, but also taught
the English people their handicraft, which was well adapted for
enclosing the lanterns of the churches and for the vessels required
for various uses.
Apparently the fuss cause by this glazing of the windows of the church and
monastery was not just the glass but that the glass was transparent! This
didn't last long because fifty years later Cuthbert, Abbot of Jarrow wrote
asking for help in finding someone knowledgible in the making of glass
vessels. Apparently the knowledge of glassmaking imported from Gaul didn't
last long in the area.
Now this was in the north of England, the south of England was another story
all together. Kent and Sussex areas, vessels continued to be made since the
Roman era. Also don't count out the importation of glass from the Continent
and the cross fertilization of style/techique that causes. I write a part
2.
Cynthia de W, from the Kindom of Caid.
P.S. I have a diatribe on stoping up, binning and sealing of glass bottles,
if anyone is interested.
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:49:01 -0400
From: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Anglo Saxon Glass Book URL
Anglo Saxon Glass Book:
http://www.britarch.ac.uk/pubs/medieval.html
Magnus
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 03:28:54 -0400
From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Glass
>(I's interesting that the text makes no mention of how the
historians/archaelogists decided that these vessels, which have the
bottle-like shape that we generally avoid in drinking cups, are drinking
vessels..)
See the pottery of the era and much of this was more a bottle shape, I
would imagine that this may well be due to a narrower opening being less
fragile, both under manufacture & use. Much for the wider pottery I've seen
is thicker & would be uncomfortable to drink from. Similarly with glass if
you bow a bulb shape you get a natural smaller opening which maybe was
difficult to open up & maintain strength with ?
Mel
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 08:10:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jenne Heise <jenne at tulgey.browser.net>
To: "INTERNET:sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Re: Glass
On Tue, 20 Jul 1999, Melanie Wilson wrote:
> Just a few thoughts on this, as referes to England
[snip]
> Bottles:- only for medicine & those things you wee into for urine
> examination !
I think we can safely say that many of the bottles were generally smaller
than we usually think of bottles being, and therefore suited for things
such as medicine. But none of the sources I looked at claimed that they
were ONLY used for medicine. In late SCA period, there were a lot of
'Apothecary bottles' but these seem to have specific shape -- a point of
glass on the inside center-- that other bottles don't have. In fact,
Charleston claims that the smaller bottles may have been primarily used as
reliquaries, because of a number of these intact small bottles being found
serving this purpose.
Jadwiga Zajaczkowa (Shire of Eisental), mka Jennifer Heise
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 22:40:07 PDT
From: "Cynthia deWickeresham" <cynthiadew at hotmail.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Glass
In regards to:
Much for the wider pottery I've seen
>is thicker & would be uncomfortable to drink from. Similarly with glass if
>you bow a bulb shape you get a narural smaller opening which maybe was
>difficult to open up & maintain strength with ?
>
>Mel
Actually, it takes more practice to get that "bottle" shape when flaring out
the lip of a vessel than a straight side. And having drunk from some of
this style of glass, you get used to it rather fast. (Okay, and now I am
going to bore a few of you with some glassblowing techie terms so I can
explain how the shape is done)
1. After you take you gather(s) of glass, blow your initial bubble and shape
it into somewhat of the shape of the main body of the vessel you intend on
making.
2. You use a pontil or punty to attach the bubble to a iron rod which is
also called a punty. A punty/pontil is sort of like using hot glass to glue
the bubble onto the punty iron.
3. Crack off the bubble from the blow pipe.
At this point what you have is a hollow bubble of glass attached to a punty
iron. This bubble of glass has a hole where opposite of where it is attached
to the blow pipe. At this point the easiest thing to do is open the vessel
up with straight sides, using heat on the lip, the Jacks(a extra large
tweezer type tool) and gravity(both spinning the glass and hanging the piece
down to lengthen it). It takes a bit more talent and finesse to get a
bottle shape, or even a palm cup which is only a slight varation from a
straight side cup.
As far as strength of the opening goes it doesn't really matter what size
the opening is. That has more to do with the annealing process. Making a
small or large opening depended on the fancy of the glassblower, one size is
just as easy to produce as the other. Besides if you blow a vessel too thin
it just colapses anyway.
One theory on Thin vs. Thick sided glass walls on vessels is thick walls
travel better. The same style of Gaulish vessels at home were thinner and
more elegant than the thick walled vessels that they exported to the Norse.
That same thinking holds for any glassworks, in period and today. Also I
believe that glass items were much more pervalent than what we have been led
to believe. Not neccessarily a luxury item.
Ok, Mel why haven't you mentioned conial beakers???? Palm cups are okay and
everything but. . . The conial beaker is one of my favorites to make and
definately within your anglo-saxon timeline. The Kempstead Beaker being one
of the finest examples of a intact conial beaker. These were popular thru
out northern Europe. And if you can find a glassblower, they are definately
a great costume accessory. You Norse types can have horn shaped ones made,
complete with glass fittings so you can hang it from your belt. :->
Oh, I have a wide and varied interest in glass, so I don't neccessarily
limit my comments to the anglo-saxon period. A lot more cross-pollination
went on than we give our forefather credit for.
Thanks for letting me talk glass,
THLady Cynthia de Wickeresham, Caid
Who is fasinated with Venetian Glass and is lucky enough to have the
opportunity to learn that area of the craft. :-)
From: David M. Razler <david.razler at worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: period stained glass
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 11:26:43 -0400
pdruss at aol.com (P D RUSS) wrote:
| Has anyone done any period stained glass and have some displayed on a web
| site?
| Tamara
<authentigrouch emerges>
Well I guess you mean period technique and ornamental leaded glass.
STAINED glass is glass that is composed of bits of white or colored glass in
lead came forming the outline of a picture, in which the detail has been added
by the application of silver nitrate stain to the individual pieces of glass,
which are then heated to develop a yellow-to dark brown line.
Enameled glass is the same stuff where non-staining opaque paints are used.
Ornamental leaded glass can combine both of those techniques, along with a
myriad of others in producing quite fantastic works of art.
d/A
David M. Razler
david.razler at worldnet.att.net
From: Darice Moore <magistra at tampabay.rr.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Early Period Glassware/Feastware
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 05:15:36 GMT
Organization: RoadRunner - TampaBay
hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu wrote:
> If you don't mind spending a little money, there's a company associated
> with the Stockholm museum that creates accurate historic glassware from
> Scandinavia and Germany. I ran into some folks at the recent West Kingdom
> Crown who are importing the stuff -- contact them at
> <charding at nwlink.com>. You won't get thrift-store prices, but you _can_
> get as authentic a Viking beaker as you'd ever care to get drunk out of!
You can order the glass through the Web too, and there's more than just
Viking there:
http://www.northerner.com/histglass.html
The history glass goes all the way through the Renaissance. It's
expensive (more for shipping than for some of the items - a "rush cup"
will set you back $12 + $15 or so for shipping.
My husband and my soon-to-be Laurel each ordered me a Frankish glass for
the holidays - luckily, they each ordered a different style. The
glasses are works of art, incredibly beautiful - and very
attention-getting.
- Clotild of Soissons
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 12:01:52 -0400
From: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>
Organization: Windmaster's Hill, Atlantia, and the GDH
Subject: Glasscraftsman
I happened to be at our coronation this weekend for Atlantia
and saw a rather rare glass craftsman. I've only seen one better and
he did claw beakers. That was a long time ago.
Historical Glassworks by Arab Boy
Jason Klein
1600 Yale Place
Brick, N.J. 098723 (732) 458 1157
This person had various drinking horns in pale green and green glass.
Some were wound in colored glass threads. He also had the kinds of
small bowls suitable for cups, lamps or small bowls you don't usually
see. The drinking horns were tough enough to take a drop from several
feet onto the ground and not break. He also had various styles of
beakers. But I didn't see any clawed beakers. I don't think he's
attempted those speaking with him. The prices seemed reasonable.
I'm not associated in any way, but this is rather a rarity.
If some of you folks were looking for such stuff this is an
opportunity.
Anyway it was worth noting.
Magnus
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 09:45:31 -0400
From: "Susan J. Evans" <woofies at worldnet.att.net>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Stained glass links
Here are the stained glass links I have. I'm assuming you mean the
"stained" as in "painted and fired in a kiln" type glass?
Susannah Potter
http://www.artglass-source.com/
http://www.artglass1.com/about.htm
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 08:33:27 -0700
From: Lynn Meyer <LMeyer at netbox.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: stained glass URL's--??
From: "Patricia Hefner" <patricia.hefner at worldnet.att.net>
>Does anyone know of any good Web sites on either stained glass or period
>glassmaking in general? If you do please let me know. Thanks in advance.
>
>Isabelle de Foix
A SCAdian has put together a bibliography on sourcebooks for glassworkers at
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/7249/bibliography.html
and a list of historic and modern glass links at
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/7249/glinks.html
There's an SCA glass-workers' list (primarily bead-makers, but not all)
-- to join, send a message with the word
subscribe
in the body to compagnia-digest-request at phosphor-ink.com
In service,
Halima
modern: Lynn Meyer, Silicon Valley, northern CA, USA
SCA: Halima de la Lucha, Crosston, Mists, West
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 10:25:29 +0100
From: "Melanie Wilson" <MelanieWilson at bigfoot.com>
To: "LIST Sca Arts" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>,
"LIST Encampments" <MedievalEncampments at onelist.com>,
Subject: Fw: The Bomford Collection of Ancient Glass is on-line!!
>Just thought some of you who may be interested in such things would like to
know that our important collection of 200+ pre-Roman and Roman glass
artefacts and vessels can now be viewed/searched on-line at the following
address:
>
>http://www.bristol-city.gov.uk/cgi-bin/w3menu?C+CMM21900+BG+F+CMM00107+CMM0
1304+CMM01802+CMM21801
>
>Please circulate to anyone you think may like to know!!
>
>For any further info on the collection or individual items please contact
Sue Giles at sue_giles at bristol-city.gov.uk or on 0117 922 3587
>
>Gail Boyle
>Bristol City Museum & Art Gallery
Mel
Subject: ANST - Venetian Glass
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 18:56:30 -0500
From: "jeffery.hartley" <jeffery.hartley at worldnet.att.net>
To: "ansteorra list" <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
The current issue of American Laboratory, one of those free mags I get at
work because they are loaded with adds, has a short article entitled
"Archeological exploration with the electron microprobe: The early history
of glassmaking in the Venetian lagoon". They compare the analysis of glass
from three different time periods. If anyone would like a copy, contact me
personally and I will attempt to send a PDF file to you.
Geof
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 10:46:35 -0400
From: jah at twcny.rr.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Andalusian measurements
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
The Corning Glass museum a year or so ago
had original weights that were kind of a green
glass, and one was a "ratl"!
It was very enlighting to see.
Jules/Catalina
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 22:29:32 -0500
From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Period Glass
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Gentle Cousins,
I am not in the habit of advertising for a merchant, and would not do so
here except that this is an exceptional find that I feel compelled to
share with you. Though not part of the SCA, this individual creates
period objects in glass, and, even with the shipping charges, his prices
are quite exceptional. His work is all handblown and ranges from Roman
times through the Renaissance. All of it is documentable and
beautifully done.
If you'd care to see his work, you can go to his web site at
http://www.a-best.cz/onlineshop/index.html
He is a very good person to work with, taking care of orders very
promptly...they usually take 7 - 10 days to arrive. I will have an
example of his work with me at Atlantian Twelfth Night if you are going
to be there and want to see his work "up close and personal"...a pair of
oil lamps that are made of glass with a wrought iron stand.
Kiri
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:55:49 -0500
From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] [Fwd: Happy Christmas]
To: Cooks withn the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Several of you asked about the web site for the glassblower from
Czechoslovakia...I passed your thoughts on to him, and here is is
response. If you want to order from him, I suggest that you send him an
e-mail with the item number and price. What he does for me is takes my
information, figures out shipping costs, etc., and lets me know what I
owe him...this I pay through PayPal, a very simple, secure site for this
purpose.
If you have any further ideas or comments, either let him know or let me
know and I'll pass them on.
Kiri
From: "Artemisia" <kerribernhard at comcast.net>
Newsgroups: alt.crafts.blacksmithing,rec.org.sca,alt.fairs.renaissance
Subject: Re: Drinking Vessels of Bygone Days
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 19:00:10 -0800
"Jeffs/Etc." <jeff_suzuki at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Out of curiosity, anyone know of a site with good pictures of period
> glassware? (In particular, I'm looking for the painted glassware that
> is awfully reminiscent of the souvenir glasses you can buy at any major
> tourist attraction...)
>
> Jeffs/etc.
This isn't a website, but if you can get ahold of a copy of "Glass of the
Sultans" by The Metropolitan Museum of Art and The Corning Museum of Glass,
it has a lot of great painted islamic glass. The cover art is a painted
glass with colorful birds.
Here are a couple of links from CMoG.org
http://www.cmog.org/usr/Catalog/99/99_1_1_lg.jpg A painted bowl from the
9th century
http://www.cmog.org/usr/Catalog/53/53_3_38_lg.jpg European painted glass
from Venice 1500-1525
From the Met...
http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/slpg/hd_slpg.htm Stained, or
Luster-Painted, Glass from Islamic Lands
Also try The British Museum at www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk - I did a quick
search on painted drinking glass and got 7 examples.
The Germans were real big on painted glass too. Do a Google on "Humpen" and
you should find lots of examples.
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 06:54:02 -0500
From: mmagnusol <MMagnusOL at nc.rr.com>
Subject: [SCA-AS] Corning Museum of Glass | Rakow Research Library |
Additional Resources
To: - SCA-ARTS <artssciences at lists.gallowglass.org>
I was looking for an Index to Journal of Glass
Studies by the Corning Museum of Glass
and apparently hit on a great research base-site
for many arts.
Magnus, OL
<http://www.cmog.org/index.asp?pageId=1070>;
Subject: [EKMetalsmiths] Digest Number 1000
Date: April 16, 2007 4:53:59 AM CDT
To: EKMetalsmiths at yahoogroups.com
Re: transparent red glass
Posted by: "Dan Brewer" danqualman at gmail.com
Here is a company that sells a good quality glass.
http://www.bullseyeglass.com/connection/products/
Dan in Auburn WA
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 19:34:38 -0500
From: "tudorpot at gmail.com" <tudorpot at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Who gets in free to feasts.
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
<<< How about making the second a stained-glass "scroll"? Then you could
use some of that window space. :-)
Stefan >>>
At a recent elevation to Knight in Ealdomere - Sir Wat's scroll
created by Tarian was done in stained glass.
Freda
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:10:24 EST
From: Stanza693 at wmconnect.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Stained Glass (was: Who gets in Free)
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
OOOOooooo! Stained glass can be so pretty. Our current baron received a
stained glass "scroll" for his Knighthood. It was gorgeous!
--
Constanza
Dragonsspine
<the end>
