frescoes-msg - 7/17/02 Creating frescoes. Fresco being water-based paint on wet plaster. The color sinks in and produces a very pretty and long-lasting painting, which won't disappear until the plaster itself is worn away. NOTE: See also the files: plaster-msg, Relief-Carvng-art, sculpture-msg, tiles-msg, pottery-msg, tiles-art. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 22:54:10 -0400 From: Margo Lynn Hablutzel <Hablutzel at compuserve.com> To: A&S List <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu> Subject: source for pigment This from Mistress Aidan, C&I Laurel from Calontir now living in Al-Barran in the Outlands: --------------- Forwarded Message --------------- I just got a great catalog in the mail--chock full of "real" pigments, in quantities from 100g to 1 kilo of ground pigments, at impressive prices. It is the Sinopia Pigments and Materials catalog, Fall 97. They also have a website (duh) at http://www.sinopia.com. This outfit apparently specializes in sales to people who do art restoration (!) and frescoes, thus the large quantity. They also sell brushes and various equipment. Just thought I'd pass this on to any interested illuminator types.... Ms. Aidan Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:15:12 -0600 From: Stephanie Cohen <olga at icon-stl.net> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Fresco Ted Hewitt wrote: > I attempted to help my 12 year old son, Edmond, experiment with fresco, > where water-based pigments are applied to wet plaster. He did a fine > job, but within a week, the colors faded away. > > I am unsure what happened because we did use a pigmented paint, not a dye > - and we used it a high concentration. Any suggestions? > > Edwin, Full-time Idealist, Part-time Realist > <brogoose at pe.net> Ok, a correction to my earlier post: "The Artist's Handbook of Materials and Techniques", Ralph Mayer. I've got the 4th editon, 1981 ISBN 0-670-13666-2. There's an extensive discussion of fresco materials and process, including history and pigment lists. Yep, there's a *big* chemistry consideration- the final painting surface is slaked lime putty...*really* alkaline! Plaster of Paris is gypsum (calcium sulphate), while slaked lime putty is calcium hydroxide. I wonder if it's also possible that the different chemical properties would prevent getting a true fresco result- I bet that gypsum won't "lock in" the pigments the same way slaked lime does, but act more like the description of secco- painting on the dry plaster wall with water-based pigments ground with a binder, like watercolors or tempera. Olga Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:29:35 +0000 (UT) From: Sean Winchell <Paladainn at classic.msn.com> To: SCA-ARTS at UKANS.EDU Subject: Fresco Although its not period, and is cheating to a degree, you may want to give the surface of your canvas a light spraying of white paint from a spray can. This may spread out through the material, allowing you not so much to paint on the plaster, as on the white spray paint. Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:36:11 -0600 From: rockwallshire at webtv.net (Shared Account) To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Fresco Regarding Fresco Painting: My Lord, you will have little success with store bought temepra--which isn't real tempera paint at all (Try the article I have resident at a site I am building on illuminated manuscripts; the site is still majorly under construction but the tempera article is complete, go to http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Library/2036/index.html and follow the links for the article if you want an intoductory article on the differences). According to _The Craftman's Handbook_ (C. Cennini, translated by D.V. Thompson and available from Dover), dry pigments were used, some mixed with a bit of water, but clearly no type of paint containing any type of binder was used in Fresco. Furthermore, Cennini lists a number of pigments that won't work in the Fresco method, although there is no way I can know what pigments your tempera paints were made from; in honesty, however, I would suspect that they were all products of modern chemistry and thus not something Cennini would have much to say about, since he's been dead, lo these many years. Nonetheless, this, too, is something to consider when asking "What Happened!?" The tempera's pigments may have been incompatable with the technique. {Here is a list of modern dry pigments that can be used in fresco painting: all Ochres; the following Mars colors--red, yellow, orange, violet, brown, black; Venitian Red; Iron Oxide red; the Umbers; the Siennas; Green Earth; Viridian Green; Chromium Oxide Green; Ultramarine Blue; Colbalt blue; Cerulean Blue; Ivory Black; Titanium White. MANY DRY PIGMENTS ARE EXTREMELY POSIONOUS--DON'T INGEST THEM AND WEAR A FACE MASK WHEN WORKING WITH THEM!} Further, an excerpt from _Painter's Dictionary of Materials and Methods_: "Nature of Fresco Buono: In this technique, work is done on a wet, freshly applied lime-plaster wall with pigments that have been ground in water. The entire chemical reaction is based on the behavior of lime... [chemisty stuff snipped]... this creates a semitranslucent surface into which the pigments are bound." Another educated guess as to what went wrong, then, might be that part of the problem was the introduction of the cheap, filler junk and large amount of water that is used to make modern "tempera" into a process that is supposed to be performed simply with wetted, ground pigment upon a fairly specific base material--lime-plaster. I, too, have experimented in fresco with tempera paints. I work with mentally retarded adults, and, one day, having finished our usual tasks, I was looking around for something to keep us busy and learning yet not something that would take major time commitment for me to teach. We had tempera paints (I knew they were wrong, but this was an experiment!) and plaster of paris (wrong again)--what we got was a runny mess (wet, thin paint spreading through wet, goopy, plaster of paris) that broke apart as soon as it dried. But we had fun, and my friends got exposed to something new! Our paints did diffuse through the plaster, and the high liquid content of the paint (used straight from the jar) was certainly a contributing factor. Any wet on wet technique runs into that danger; the line between "just enough" and "too much" is pretty thin. Well, I hope this has been helpful to you, and that i am not just repeating what someone else has told you, as I haven't finished reading the thread..... Good luck with your project--if you can't find a source for dry pigments, let me know, there are a couple of online dealers, but I don't have the URLs to hand. Your Servant, Merouda Pendray, writing through the Rockwall account. ------------------------------- Visit our Web Site! http://members.tripod.com/~Pendray/rockwall.html Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 10:36:00 EST From: LRSTCS <LRSTCS at aol.com> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Fresco Painting and Egg Tempera Another good book to help with painting frescos is "The Materials and Techniques of Medieval Painting" by Daniel V. Thompson, another good Dover book. It was recommended in the Be Not Afraid, class given by Lord Wolfgang at Penssic this year, I found it very helpful. If you grind your own pigments, please take Merouda Pendray's safety advice but also wear rubber gloves. If you don't want to grind your own, there is real egg tempera available in tubes. This is not the tempera paints you mix with water that you find in the school supplies. This is in the good gouache and oil paints section, it comes in a tube just like the good stuff! I noticed it at Pearl art supply in Atlanta, last time I was in there. If this is of any use to anyone, I will investigate it further. I don't know who makes it,(wasn't paying attention, just made a mental note that there is egg tempera in tiny tubes like gouache) what's in it (preservatives if any), I'll read the display info,the cost etc., and will be glad to pick a few tubes and experiment with them and let you know how it works. I'm a beginning Illumination student-If someone has already checked it out, let me know if it's worth bothering with. Lady Magge Reichenberg-Meridies <the end> Edited by Mark S. Harris frescoes-msg Page 4 of 4