frescoes-msg - 7/17/02
Creating frescoes. Fresco being water-based paint on wet plaster. The color sinks in and produces a very pretty and long-lasting painting, which won't disappear until the plaster itself is worn away.
NOTE: See also the files: plaster-msg, Relief-Carvng-art, sculpture-msg, tiles-msg, pottery-msg, tiles-art.
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Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 22:54:10 -0400
From: Margo Lynn Hablutzel <Hablutzel at compuserve.com>
To: A&S List <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: source for pigment
This from Mistress Aidan, C&I Laurel from Calontir
now living in Al-Barran in the Outlands:
--------------- Forwarded Message ---------------
I just got a great catalog in the mail--chock full of "real" pigments,
in quantities from 100g to 1 kilo of ground pigments, at impressive
prices. It is the Sinopia Pigments and Materials catalog, Fall 97. They
also have a website (duh) at http://www.sinopia.com.
This outfit apparently specializes in sales to people who do art
restoration (!) and frescoes, thus the large quantity. They also sell
brushes and various equipment.
Just thought I'd pass this on to any interested illuminator types....
Ms. Aidan
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:15:12 -0600
From: Stephanie Cohen <olga at icon-stl.net>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Fresco
Ted Hewitt wrote:
> I attempted to help my 12 year old son, Edmond, experiment with fresco,
> where water-based pigments are applied to wet plaster. He did a fine
> job, but within a week, the colors faded away.
>
> I am unsure what happened because we did use a pigmented paint, not a dye
> - and we used it a high concentration. Any suggestions?
>
> Edwin, Full-time Idealist, Part-time Realist
> <brogoose at pe.net>
Ok, a correction to my earlier post: "The Artist's Handbook of Materials and
Techniques", Ralph Mayer. I've got the 4th editon, 1981 ISBN 0-670-13666-2.
There's an extensive discussion of fresco materials and process, including history and pigment lists. Yep, there's a *big* chemistry consideration- the final painting surface is slaked lime putty...*really* alkaline! Plaster of Paris is gypsum (calcium sulphate), while slaked lime putty is calcium hydroxide. I wonder if it's also possible that the different chemical properties would prevent getting a true fresco result- I bet that gypsum won't "lock in" the pigments the same way slaked lime does, but act more like the description of secco- painting on the dry plaster wall with water-based pigments ground with a binder, like watercolors or tempera.
Olga
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:29:35 +0000 (UT)
From: Sean Winchell <Paladainn at classic.msn.com>
To: SCA-ARTS at UKANS.EDU
Subject: Fresco
Although its not period, and is cheating to a degree, you may want to give the
surface of your canvas a light spraying of white paint from a spray can. This
may spread out through the material, allowing you not so much to paint on the
plaster, as on the white spray paint.
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:36:11 -0600
From: rockwallshire at webtv.net (Shared Account)
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Fresco
Regarding Fresco Painting:
My Lord, you will have little success with store bought temepra--which
isn't real tempera paint at all (Try the article I have resident at a
site I am building on illuminated manuscripts; the site is still majorly
under construction but the tempera article is complete, go to
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Library/2036/index.html and follow
the links for the article if you want an intoductory article on the
differences).
According to _The Craftman's Handbook_ (C. Cennini, translated by D.V.
Thompson and available from Dover), dry pigments were used, some mixed
with a bit of water, but clearly no type of paint containing any type of
binder was used in Fresco. Furthermore, Cennini lists a number of
pigments that won't work in the Fresco method, although there is no way
I can know what pigments your tempera paints were made from; in honesty,
however, I would suspect that they were all products of modern chemistry
and thus not something Cennini would have much to say about, since he's
been dead, lo these many years. Nonetheless, this, too, is something to
consider when asking "What Happened!?" The tempera's pigments may have
been incompatable with the technique. {Here is a list of modern dry
pigments that can be used in fresco painting: all Ochres; the following
Mars colors--red, yellow, orange, violet, brown, black; Venitian Red;
Iron Oxide red; the Umbers; the Siennas; Green Earth; Viridian Green;
Chromium Oxide Green; Ultramarine Blue; Colbalt blue; Cerulean Blue;
Ivory Black; Titanium White. MANY DRY PIGMENTS ARE EXTREMELY
POSIONOUS--DON'T INGEST THEM AND WEAR A FACE MASK WHEN WORKING WITH
THEM!}
Further, an excerpt from _Painter's Dictionary of Materials and
Methods_:
"Nature of Fresco Buono: In this technique, work is done on a wet,
freshly applied lime-plaster wall with pigments that have been ground in
water. The entire chemical reaction is based on the behavior of lime...
[chemisty stuff snipped]... this creates a semitranslucent surface into
which the pigments are bound."
Another educated guess as to what went wrong, then, might be that part
of the problem was the introduction of the cheap, filler junk and large
amount of water that is used to make modern "tempera" into a process
that is supposed to be performed simply with wetted, ground pigment
upon a fairly specific base material--lime-plaster.
I, too, have experimented in fresco with tempera paints. I work with
mentally retarded adults, and, one day, having finished our usual tasks,
I was looking around for something to keep us busy and learning yet not
something that would take major time commitment for me to teach. We had
tempera paints (I knew they were wrong, but this was an experiment!) and
plaster of paris (wrong again)--what we got was a runny mess (wet, thin
paint spreading through wet, goopy, plaster of paris) that broke apart
as soon as it dried. But we had fun, and my friends got exposed to
something new! Our paints did diffuse through the plaster, and the high
liquid content of the paint (used straight from the jar) was certainly a
contributing factor. Any wet on wet technique runs into that danger; the
line between "just enough" and "too much" is pretty thin.
Well, I hope this has been helpful to you, and that i am not just
repeating what someone else has told you, as I haven't finished reading
the thread..... Good luck with your project--if you can't find a source
for dry pigments, let me know, there are a couple of online dealers, but
I don't have the URLs to hand.
Your Servant, Merouda Pendray, writing through the Rockwall account.
-------------------------------
Visit our Web Site!
http://members.tripod.com/~Pendray/rockwall.html
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 10:36:00 EST
From: LRSTCS <LRSTCS at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Fresco Painting and Egg Tempera
Another good book to help with painting frescos is "The Materials and
Techniques of Medieval Painting" by Daniel V. Thompson, another good Dover
book. It was recommended in the Be Not Afraid, class given by Lord Wolfgang at
Penssic this year, I found it very helpful. If you grind your own pigments,
please take Merouda Pendray's safety advice but also wear rubber gloves.
If you don't want to grind your own, there is real egg tempera available in
tubes. This is not the tempera paints you mix with water that you find in the
school supplies. This is in the good gouache and oil paints section, it comes
in a tube just like the good stuff! I noticed it at Pearl art supply in
Atlanta, last time I was in there.
If this is of any use to anyone, I will investigate it further. I don't know
who makes it,(wasn't paying attention, just made a mental note that there is
egg tempera in tiny tubes like gouache) what's in it (preservatives if any),
I'll read the display info,the cost etc., and will be glad to pick a few tubes
and experiment with them and let you know how it works.
I'm a beginning Illumination student-If someone has already checked it out,
let me know if it's worth bothering with.
Lady Magge Reichenberg-Meridies
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