prostitution-msg - 10/31/19

Medieval prostitution.

NOTE: See also the files: prostitution-lnks, aphrodisiacs-msg, birth-control-msg, p-sex-msg, p-hygiene-msg, bathing-msg.

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Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 10:30:00 -0500
From: Larry_Peterka at AirNSun.blkcat.com (Larry Peterka)
Subject: Re: Campfollowers (was Female Knights)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Paula Peterka, posting from her husband's account, who can't figure out how to
quote previous sentences!  The discussion was on if/why campfollower =
prostitute, and whether prostitutes were allowed in the baggage train.

Speaking for the Landsknecht mercenaries, the Artiklesbriefe, which laid out
the rules under which the army operated, usually stipulated that no man might
have more than one woman in the baggage train, unless she was a daughter or a
sister.  This was suposed to keep the women from fighting over the men.  Women
who were found prostituting themselves (especially with someone else's man),
generally had their hair cut off, were beaten by the other women, and run out
of camp.

Part of the reason most people think "prostitute" when they hear "campfollower"
is because the descriptions of an army were usually written by the civillians
who watched it pass through their town: commandeering their local stores for
food supplies, billeting themselves in the townspeoples' homes, conscripting
some of the local youths for soldiers, etc.  These civillians generally
referred to all the soldiers and their women in the most uncomplimentary terms.
:)  This, combined with the fact that some armies acttually were followed by
prostitutes explains the correlation in some poeple's minds.  The fact that one
of the period slang terms for campfollower in german is "hure", which today
translates to "whore", but didn't actually mean prostitute then, doesn't help.

In service to the Empire, Fur Bier und Guilder!

-Anjabeth Blode, Weib des Hauptmanns des TeufelsAlpdrucken Fahnlein
mka Paula Peterka, Crazy Lady in charge of all those Germans! 


From: jacquetta at aol.com (Jacquetta)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mediveal Prostitution: looking for sources
Date: 4 Apr 1996 19:30:11 -0500

I ran across a mention in a history of women's clothing book (years and
children have dimmed the memory here on the name) but, it did mention a
sumptuary law regarding prostitues in England approx 1100'ish being
required to wear "hoods of ray" to distinguish them from honest women of
the town...

Jacquetta
Lynn Shaftic-Averill


From: dnb105 at psu.edu (Ferret)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mediveal Prostitution: looking for sources
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 18:46:08 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

In article <4k1pij$skm at newsbf02.news.aol.com> jacquetta at aol.com (Jacquetta) writes:
>From: jacquetta at aol.com (Jacquetta)
>Subject: Re: Mediveal Prostitution: looking for sources
>Date: 4 Apr 1996 19:30:11 -0500

>I ran across a mention in a history of women's clothing book (years and
>children have dimmed the memory here on the name) but, it did mention a
>sumptuary law regarding prostitues in England approx 1100'ish being
>required to wear "hoods of ray" to distinguish them from honest women of
>the town...

I don't recall the source but, English prostitutes were supposed to wear 
sleeves of green ergo: Henry VIII's song "greensleeves" was about a 
prostitute. Perhaps we could have a Green Maunche award. :-)

Ferret


From: "Thomas R. Ayles" <amklingen at lcc.memphis.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mediveal Prostitution: looking for sources
Date: 5 Apr 1996 05:49:15 GMT
Organization: The University of Memphis

c7ux at unb.ca (KENNEDY  TONY MATTHEW) wrote:
>	If any one knows of some primary or secondary sources which deal 
>with prostitution during the middle-ages please contact me, as I doing a 
>reseach project for my Hist 3001: The Cruades East meets West, course any 
>references are greatly appreciated.    Bye!

   There is a book on the subject I read for a class some years ago.  It 
is,
  Medieval Prostitution, by Jacques Rossiaud
    pub.  Basil Blackwell Inc
          432 Park Avenue South, Suite 1503
          New York, New York 10016
            ISBN 0-631-15141-9

  It was an interesting book, with many quotes from original sources.  No 
bibliography, but tons of footnotes giving sources, and translations of 
documents in the appendix, such as Charles the king of France authorizing 
the opening of a brothel in the city of Castelneuf d'Arry in 1445, in 
order that the disorderly behavior of public women and their customers 
may be confined to a discreet area of the town.  
  Hope this helps.
Thomas 


From: kellogg at rohan.sdsu.edu (kellogg)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mediveal Prostitution: looking for sources
Date: 8 Apr 1996 21:27:36 GMT
Organization: San Diego State University Computing Services

KENNEDY  TONY MATTHEW (c7ux at unb.ca) wrote:
: 	If any one knows of some primary or secondary sources which deal 
: with prostitution during the middle-ages please conttact me, as I doing a 
: reseach project for my Hist 3001: The Cruades East meets West, course any 
: references are greatly appreciated.    Bye!

	There is a web page entitled "Sexual Relations in Renaissance
Europe" at <URL: http://www.tcd.net/~garn/sex.html> with some information
on prostitution.  The Mediev-L list archive currently has a long thread on
medieval prostitution.  Look at <URL: http://www.urz.uni-heidelberg.de/subject/
hd/fak7/hist/o1/logs/mt/t47/thread.html#start>.

		Avenel Kellough


From: hotair50 at teleport.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mediveal Prostitution: looking for sources
Date: 11 Apr 1996 21:40:13 GMT

bsibly at chch.planet.org.nz (Belinda Sibly) wrote:
>
>>	If any one knows of some primary or secondary sources which deal 
>>with prostitution during the middle-ages please conttact me, as I doing a 
>>reseach project for my Hist 3001: The Cruades East meets West, course any 
>>references are greatly appreciated.    Bye!

There is an excellent book for you to consider in your studies.

Name of book:  A Small Sound of the Trumpet (Women in Medieval Life)

Author: Margaret Wade Labarge

ISBN #o-8070-5627-8

I has chapters on:
Women who tuled: Queens
Women who ruled: Noble ladies
Women who Prayed: Nuns & Beguines
Women who Prayed: recluses and Mystics
Women who Toiled: Townswomen and Peasants
Women as Healers and Nurses
Women on the Fringe (this is about the Prostitutes)

Good luck in your studies.
HLS Persephonie
An Tir


From: s.krossa at aberdeen.ac.uk (Sharon Krossa)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mediveal Prostitution: looking for sources
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 09:30:10 +0000

[My apologies if this is rather a late contribution to this thread: I've
been away from my net connection for many weeks except periodic visits just
long enough to download but not to post replies!]

bsibly at chch.planet.org.nz (Belinda Sibly) wrote:
(quoting someone else whose name got lost):
>>	If any one knows of some primary or secondary sources which deal 
>>with prostitution during the middle-ages please conttact me, as I doing a 
>>reseach project for my Hist 3001: The Cruades East meets West, course any 
>>references are greatly appreciated.    Bye!

Something tells me you dont' want to get quite this primary... but periodic
references to prositutes are made in the Aberdeen (Scotland) Council
Register, a manuscript source, and I think there are aslo a few extracted
and published in "Extracts from the Council Register of the Burgh of
Aberdeen" in the Spalding Club series. I expect the records for other
burghs have similar things. The published Ancient Laws of the Burghs of
Scotland (or something very like that title) probably aslo have a reference
or two. Mainly what I recall is that the houses of these women (I do wish i
could recall what they called them) had to be located on the outskirts of
town due to fire risk.

Unfortunately, I can't face the prospect of reading it all again to find
the exact references for you!

Sharon Krossa, whose thesis deadline is looming

skrossa at svpal.org (permanent) -or- s.krossa at aberdeen.ac.uk (until June 1996)


From: dickeney at access1.digex.net (Dick Eney)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period STDs?
Date: 31 May 1996 20:36:19 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA

>     Greetings from Yaakov:
>     Giovana writes:
>     
>     >If we all practise safe debauchery, that and some VERY period STD's 
>     >will never be an issue.
>     
>     STDs are "very" period?  I thought they came on the scene post 1492.  
>     (I'll sidestep the argument over whether syphillis is an import to 
>     Europe or evolved from yaws and just coincidentally came on the scene 
>     at the same time.)
>     
But syphilis isn't the only STD, after all.  There were problems with STDs
-- type not known to me -- in classical Rome.  (They blamed it on the
Carthaginians.  They would...)  I believe it was under Henry I of England
that the Bishop of Winchester laid down those rules for brothel-keeping
which included: "No stewholder to keep a woman that hath the perilous
infirmity of burning..."  That has been interpreted as gonorrhea, one
symptom of which is burning pain on urination.  (The current diagnostic
sign, Gram negative diplococci intra- and extra-cellularly -- forgive this
barbarous locution, gentles, but that is actually the form of words used
in reporting that the characteristic discharge shows the very unusual
paired bacteria ["diplococci"] which don't take Gram's stain -- was not
possible before the invention of microscopy.)

(I happen to _like_ long parenthetical remarks.  So what?)

|---------Master Vuong Manh, C.P., Storvik, Atlantia---------|
|----------------(dickeney at access.digex.net)-----------------|


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Wenching Guild's
From: una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honour Horne-Jaruk)
Date: Fri, 02 May 97 22:31:45 EDT

"M.Berg" <tor at mail.netshop.net> writes:
> Wonderous well everyone. I am head of the wenching Guild in our incipient 
> Shire, but alas there is not much information about as to the rules and 
> conduct befitting a wench. I have heard of some rules that apply to us 
> lovely ladies, but not a lot. Are we a recognized Guild, or not?
> Please if you have any knowledge of how this respectable Guild should be 
> run please inform me.
> Until then I remain in service to An Tir
> Josephine Blackthorn

        Kerensa Tregareth, from Alizaunde de Bregeuf's account,
to Josephine Blackthorne,
        Greetings:
        There is no longer any such guild chartered in the East
Kingdom.  The reason for this, I am told, is that the ladies were
believed to exist only so that romanticly unacceptable fighters
would have a pool of targets to choose from.  In some cases this 
seems to be what they in fact became, milady. I urge that you 
take all possible precautions to prevent this perception from 
developing.
        There was no guild in period named "the wenches guild".
There is, however, a preconcieved belief as to what a wench 
and the act of "wenching" were, in period. There are many people
who will believe that the choice of the name " Wenches guild"
is merely truth in advertizing.  There isn't any possibility (in 
my belief) that you or your friends want any of the problems 
that the "wenches guilds" of A.S. 10 lived through. When I was
active, one of my persona was a part-time prostitute. There 
are people who still remember me as a prostitute.  Even more 
important, some people automatically assumed that I was also 
a prostitute in the mundane world. 
        This was not the case; but no matter how much or often 
I explained, they remained firmly convinced that only a 
prostitute would take such a persona. (Frankly, I wasn't even 
trying to act the role; I just loved the clothes.) I still had 
to cope with offers, comments, even slander spread within my 
real-world community. _That_ resulted in propositions ranging 
from rate requests to public maulings.   Please - be prepared 
to live with any decisions you make now - for they may follow 
you forever.    
                        In concern and the hope to be of service-
                        Kerensa Tregareth

From Alizaunde:
        I would like to add that I don't think you need the name
"Wenches' Guild" to identify commoner women, working in taverns 
or other lower-class occupations. Just as one example, people
who lived in a specific neighborhood often joined "religious 
societies" which supposedly existed to honor some saint- and
actually served as a combination Vigilance Society and local
Ladies' Aid. They did put on an annual display on their
Patron Saint's day, but that can be fun too.
        Whatever you call it, there are some _very_ important
rules. First and foremost, any woman who actually does seek
fee-for-service has to be rejected instantly and publically.
Second, you _have_ to be prepared to come to each other's
assistance when someone takes the _first_ step over the line.
        If you are planning this as an excuse for some risque'
clowning around, you are in for some nasty shocks. If you 
actually want a household for non-noble women who work 
_downstairs_ in a tavern, you need a new name.
        By the way- even outright whores in pre-17th century
Western Europe didn't wear bodices cut in scoops under the 
breasts. That particular piece of work comes in with the  
back-alley tarts of the 18th century Carribean.      
                        
                                Alizaunde, Demoiselle de Bregeuf
                                Una Wicca (That Pict)
                                (Friend) Honour Horne-Jaruk, R.S.F.


From: james koch <alchem at en.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: hetairos/courtesan question
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 03:00:32 -0400
Organization: alchem inc

Apollonia wrote:
> :      I haven't yet found documentation for an actual guild in period
> :and doubt that such a thing ever actually existed, but I have found
> :documentation for less formal associations.  Also, many laws existed to
> :control the trade.  In various times and places practitioners were
> :required to wear distinctive clothing (for instance:  a red ribbon on
> :the left sleeve), to restrict their activities to certain neighborhoods,
> :or certain times of the day.  Of course similar restrictions were placed
> :on most medieval trades.

> : Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
 
> I recently read that Roman wives could pay a small guild fee, and then
> sleep with anyone without being accused of adultery. Check the book
> 'Roman Women: Their History and Habits,' by J.P.V.D. Balsdon. 

This was not actually a "Guild fee".  The women in question were
registering with the Censors who were state officials.  As such they
were being licensed as harlots and could not subsequently be punished
for the crime of adultery.  Of course by so doing they lost certain
rights.  They could no longer expect the state to punish a man they had
accused of rape.  In other words, in exchange for greater freedom they
assumed the responsibility for providing for their own protection.  

Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)


From: paximus at aol.com (PAXIMUS)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: hetairos/courtesan question
Date: 14 Apr 1998 04:08:30 GMT

Well a suggestion for your guild of Courtesans.

In Venice the Prostitutes/Courtesans were legally defined(although sometimes
hazely) into three categorys those being:
 Meretrice = Prostitute, they were the lowest of the order

 Cortigiana di Luma = Courtesan of the Lamp, they were above the  Meretice in
as much as the Cortigiana usually practiced their trade inside of taverns and
inns.

 Cortigina onesta = The Honest Courtesan, this is the highest and most
distinguished of the Courtesans.

Both the Meretrice and Cortigiana di Luma were often lumped together because
they both earned their living by selling sexual favors to men

The Honest Courtesan on the other hand often had to fight to get recognition in
the Courts and social circles wherein she lived, very much like any other
Courtier.

Onore et Onere
Don Giulio d'Medici
G.M. Cavalieri Dell'Ordine de Santo Stefano
http://members.aol.com/paximus/LaCompagnia.html


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: bq676 at torfree.net (Kristine E. Maitland)
Subject: Re: hetairos/courtesan question
Organization: Toronto Free-Net
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:26:43 GMT

: >"Bryan J. Maloney" <bjm10 at cornell.edu> wrote:
: >>> James,
: >>> 
: >>> If you want historical proof of Courtesans, go see the movie, Dangerous
: >>> Beauty. It's set in Venice Italy, and just before the Inquisition in the

Indeed, (as Brian sarcasticly noted) to use a film as historical evidence
is questionable, to say the least.  However, I enjoyed the film -- it was
the impetus to check up on the history of Veronica Franco.  For all its
Hollywood nonsense, it DID manage to portray some of the major facts of
Veronica Franco's accurately. And (an element that surprised me) the film
did make the effort show that a courtesan's life could be FAR from
glamourous. 

Now, if you really want to know what the lives of courtesans (and 
prostitutes) in period were REALLY like I would suggest that you read the 
following:

Tullia d'Aragona. _A dialogue on the Infinity of Love_. trans Rinaldina 
        Russell & Bruce Merry. Chicago: University of Chicago Press,1997.
[Here you have a PRIMARY source written by a noted courtesan of 16th c. 
Venice.  Deep reading]

John Brackett. "The Florentice Onesta and the COntrol of Prostitution, 
        1403-1680". in _Sixteenth Century Journal_, XXIV/2 (1993)

Helen S. Ettlinger. "Visibilis et Invisibilis: The Mistress in Italian 
        Renaissance Court Society". in _Renaissance Quarterly, 
        vol. XLVII #4 (winter 1994).

Remember to check the bibliographies on the above -- great sources there 
too!

sinceremente
Inez Rosanera d'Ealdormere


Subject: Re: ANST - Merkin?
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 98 10:16:36 MST
From: "Cadwynn MacDonald" <mac-tire at nts-online.net>
To: <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG>

>Pug responded to my:
>>>> >Okay, recently we found out what a merkin is. I'd like to know *why*.
>>>> >Anyone know? Gio? (Since you seemed to know the most about them.)
>>>> That depends.  What do you mean by "why?"  Do you mean "why do we have a
>>>> heraldic term for the female pubic patch?" or just "why is it called that?"
>
>with
>
>>>That's odd. The dictionary we checked had it listed as a wig for the
>>>female pubic area.
>
>And Jerry responds:
>
>>Webster's Dictionary has that as the original meaning, but "afterwards"
>>merkin is defined as the mop used to clean a cannon.
>
>Webster's is woefully inadequate to the task of etymological research.  The
>use of *merkin* to describe a pubic wig doesn't appear until the 17th
>century.  The use of merkin to describe the female pudendum appears
>slightly earlier (1535, according to the OED).  Heraldically, I believe the
>term post-dates the SCA 1600 cutoff date.
>
>Now, if Pug was asking why 17th century needed a pubic wig, I have no idea.

>Sir Lyonel Oliver Grace

At the time, body lice (both head and groin types) were very common.
The most accepted and successful 'treatment' available at the time was
SHAVING the afflicted areas. Thus, a woman was identified as 'loose'
or 'wanton' if her groin was shaved, indicating that she had
contracted lice/crabs.  Even if she WAS 'loose' or 'wanton', she
surely didn't want her prospective lover(s) to think so - female
vanity being what it was then.  So, she employed her 'little wig'
below, and her 'big wig' above.

Now before anyone debunks this theory, let us also realize that many
'virgins' also employed a small vial of animal blood to 'mark' the
bridal sheets, thereby 'proving' her virginal entrance into the bridal
bed...

Cadwynn MacDonald


Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 05:21:03 -0700From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at efn.org>Subject: Re: SC - Ras' Church lesson for the day True, for Apicius' time- but, I believe that Ras was refering )ingeneral) to the Middle Ages, per se, when the Roman Church DID own andadminister houses of ill repute- including a most infamous one inSouthwark (the Times Square of the MA) in the 14th and 15th centuries.Anything to make a buck.Delightful and fascinating book on the subject:_Medieval Prostitution_ by Jacques Rossiaud (Blackwell, Cambridge Mass.,1995). 'Lainie

Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 19:49:49 +0200
From: Volker Bach <bachv at paganet.de>
To: SCA Cooks List <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] [OT] Professional Technique

Going back to a thread that surfaced a while ago,
I have had the good fortune to visit my local
library today and finally found the book I
mentioned in the context of the professional
abilities of medieval ladies of the night. It is
in chapter 10 of:

Jacques Rossiaud: La Prostituzione nel Medioevo,
Laterza, Rome 1985 (German: Dame Venus, Kempten
1989)

I know of no English translation.

At any rate it appears the selection of service at
period establishments was quite limited.

Giano


Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 22:59:40 +0200
From: Volker Bach <bachv at paganet.de>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] [OT] Professional Technique

> >At any rate it appears the selection of service at
> >period establishments was quite limited. I can go
> >into detail once Misha's been sent to bed :-)
> >
> >Giano

Anyways, in
short, received opinion appears to have been that
the purpose of an - ahem - establishment of this
nature was to channel the sex drives of young,
unmarried males into acceptable directions rather
than having them seducing (or raping, as seems to
have been lamentably common) the wives and
daughters of older, richer, married men. Therefore
the Powers that Be held that the services on offer
should not be in any way special, so as to not
tempt the married to leave their rightfully wedded
wives to pursue forbidden pleasures of the flesh
elsewhere. Not that such pleasures were unknown
(anyone with a taste for classy pornography can
pursue this interest reading early medieval
penitentials - I always wonder whether these books
reflect actual practice or the ideas monks get
after midnight. Emm, they made me read them in
college, honestly!). We have a court case where a
prospective customer was beaten up and thrown out
of a house of ill repute by its staff for
demanding what the record coily calls 'unnatural
acts'. Thus anyone attempting to recreate such a
persona may rest assured that no particular Skill
seems to have been necessary. Good thing, too, as
I doubt there are laurels to be won for that
particular art or science.

Obligatory food content: I'm sure I could do
something with 'eat' or 'swallow', but I'd rather
not. Oh: Meister Eberjhard states that raw grapes
render people unchaste, so I think we know what
they served for snacks.

Giano


From: Sandy Straubhaar <orchzis at hotmail.com>
Date: October 7, 2007 2:34:33 PM CDT
To: bryn-gwlad at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Bryn-gwlad] Norse prostitutes

Jehanne wrote:
> So, what would a Norse prostitute wear? Would any of the research  
> geeks out there know of any laws pertaining to them? Were they  
> marked in any way? Did they have any legal rights? Etc.

I can't think of any references to them at all.

In literary texts I can think of two stories that come kind of close  
to the concept -- maybe.

1. The Icelander Hoskuld Dala-Kolsson in _Laxdæla saga_ buying a  
slave girl (who turns out to be a princees of Ireland) from a slave  
dealer:

http://www.answers.com/topic/the-laxdaela-saga-chapter-xii

2. The "wandering woman" Gefjun who "entertains" king Gylfi of Sweden  
(first paragraph) in Snorri's Edda.  Note -- this one is a long  
shot.  Gefjun is, after all, a goddess.  But some scholars interpret  
this text as meaning that she used sexual favors as currency:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/pre/pre04.htm

Here's a fountain in Copenhagen commemorating this "event".  Danes  
like it because the island that Copenhagen is on is that piece of  
land that Gefjun and her sons plowed out.

http://www.hookd.dk/Interesser/Foto/Byer/Kbh/rundtur%20i%20kbh/ 
Gefion.jpg

That's it for literature, as far as I can think.

Maybe something on prostitution could be found in early legal texts  
-- though I wouldn't bet money on it.

There's the Icelandic Grágás law book:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_Goose_Laws

There are the Norwegian Gulating & Frostating law codes (referenced  
in the first paragraphs -- I don;t know if the actual texts are online):

http://www.domstol.no/DAtemplates/Article____3060.aspx

Here's a stub Wiki link on the Icelandic Ironside laws, modeled after  
the Norwegian ones above:

http://is.wikipedia.org/wiki/Járnsíða

Here's the earliest Swedish law book, but it's already way post-Viking:

http://www.wadbring.com/historia/sidor/vglag.htm

The Icelandic Jónsbók is from about the same time:

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node=J%F3nsb%F3k

Good luck.  This isn't a topic that comes up a lot.  Check over on  
the Viking Answer Lady -- it's quite possible Gunnvör has thought of  
something I haven't.

brynhildr


To: 	SCA Newcomers list <scanewcomers at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Red was for harlots? I don't think so!
Posted by: "julian wilson" smnco37 at yahoo.co.uk smnco37
Date: Tue Jan 5, 2010 2:27 pm ((PST))

Cailin, at different historical times and in different Countries , city-states, &c., members of the world's second -oldest profession were required by law to wear clothing incorporating some form of distinguishing mark or colour. However, there were so many variations in the Laws relating to "official" prostitution, that what was respectable in one place and time, could indeed advertise a harlot plying her profession in another.

However, given that a good Red was one of the more difficult and expensive colours for the dyers to achieve, requiring as it did the use of costly "kermes", - I think you must have been misinformed about that one.

The most common colour I heard of being used to legally identify Harlots by some mandated article of dress, has been Yellow - and this relates to various places in Western Europe between The Norman Conquest and 1600.

 BUT, that's not true of all of the area throughout the whole of those centuries.

 Matthewe Baker,
 Hospitaller for West Dragonshire,
 Drachenwald.


To: 	SCA Newcomers list <scanewcomers at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: Red was for harlots? I don't think so!
Posted by: "julian wilson" smnco37 at yahoo.co.uk smnco37
Date: Tue Jan 5, 2010 2:56 pm ((PST))

<<< I appreciate the historical distinction, but I was just talking about colors a new comer could wear to an event... that being said, our kingdom must be full of harlots... Everyone wears red here... >>>

Cailin, you must have misunderstood me. If I phrased my response badly, I apologise. I thought I had written that the most common colour for "official" harlots was yellow" - , and that red was unlikely in that connection because - whether the fabric was linen, kersey, linsey-wolsey, meldey, broadcloth, the finest "Skarlets", damasks, chamlet, or silk - the most expensive was going to be that of a red or deep black colour; - and for that reason, legislation would not have required harlots to wear colours worn by the richest of the Burghers and merchants, and by the nobility.

If you want colours for cloth for first-event garb - may i suggest you look at the period illustration online of the manesse Codex, the Hunting Book of gaston Phoebus, or the Book of tournaments of King rener of Anjou, or the Tres Riches Heures of the Duc de Berry. using a colour from a garment in one of this pictures - and they are all available to look through, page by page online - you will certainly not lay yourself open to any criticism.

 YiS,
 Matthewe Baker

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