p-spice-trade-msg - 2/10/14

The period spice trade. Routes, methods.

NOTE: See also the files: commerce-msg, spices-msg, herbs-msg, p-prices-msg, p-insurance-msg, cinnamon-msg, ginger-msg, gums-resins-msg, saffron-msg.

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This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

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Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 10:04:51 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - transporting ingredients

cjvt at hotmail.com writes:
<<  How did people in period store and/or transport 
 powders like amydoun, powdour douce, and so on? >>

Unfortunately, I can't find the file I saved with this info but, IIRC (and I 
think I do), powders were kept in leather pouches (larger amounts) and/or in 
folded parchment (purchased at the apothecary). Small caskets (e.g., hinged 
wooden or metal boxes) were also used (for travel). 

I have not seen any pictures suggesting glass was an option for powders but 
this reflects my lack of research in the area rather than knowledge. 

Ras


Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 10:56:31 -0400
From: "Jeff Gedney" <JGedney at dictaphone.com>
Subject: Re: RE: SC - transporting ingredients

> Spices shipped by sea would have been sealed in containers which would
> protect them from water.  This would also help protect them from the air.

Information that I have, from my research into nautical stuff, is that spices were routinely shipped by the _ton_ (yes, TON) by late period, which is what made shipping spices so profitable. They could make it to England in as little as six months (though more than a year was usual), and were packaged in dry casks which would be waterproof (barring a prolonged soaking). either by virtue of construction or by application of a caulking or sealing material (like grease or parrafin) to the seams of the cask.

IIRC, the Spices were measured and weiged out by the local authority (usually 
an agent of the king) under the supervision of the Ship's masters or another of 
the Company, placed in leather or cloth bags knotted (and the knots sometimes 
sealed with wax, though this was not ususal) and placed into the casks.

This was a great advantage, because a ship to the East Indies could 
deliver from thirty to as much as a _hundred_  tons of pepper to market in as 
little as six or seven months, as opposed to overland conveyance methods, 
which relied on pack animals to carry the weight, and these needed upkeep, 
stabling, storage, loading, and sometimes rental. Also caravans had to pay 
taxes and for protections every time they crossed borders (and sometimes 
two or three times), whereas the Ocean was generally considered borderless
unless you were actually in a harbor. 
A bag of Sumatran spices may have taken as long as ten years to get to 
European ports by caravan, changing hands several times, contantly being 
bumped, jostled, opened, inspected, sampled, and occasionally cut with 
adulterants to increase the return on investment.
Spices taken by sea were usually directly obtained form the source, and 
therefore likely to be of a higher quality, fresher, and in better condition.

The shipping of bulk spices by sea made Piracy a lucrative, albeit dangerous,
career before the despoiling of the Aztec empire made gold the preferred 
commodity cargo.  Many times appropriating the cargoes of other ships was 
how the early East India fleets topped off there holds, which is why the 
company was founded and run by notable Elizabethan privateers, such as Sir 
John Hawkins.

Brandu
(yes, I have documentation ...
The best sources are Richard Hakluyts "Voyages", and the collected 
voyages and works of John Davis. )


Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 10:24:37 -0500 
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: RE: SC - transporting ingredients

The Red Sea trade was a thriving business by the 3rd Century BCE and almost
certainly earlier although it was trade primarily with Africa and Arabia
Felix.  

In time spices were traded in Calcutta, shipped around India to Bombay, then
seasonally transferred during the monsoons to Mocha in Yemen.  From Mocha
they would be traded into Africa and north to Cairo and Eliat (for the
caravan trade).  Greece and Rome apparently took advantage of this trade and
spice continued to flow through Byzantium into Europe prior to the Crusades.

From the 13th to the 16th Centuries, this trade was controlled by the
Mamluks of Egypt, who permitted between 200 and 300 tons of pepper to be
exported to Europe each year.  In 1503, the Portuguese with the financial
assistance of the House of Fugger imported 1,300 tons of pepper, broke the
Mamluk monopoly, and dropped pepper prices in Europe by 1/3.

Pirates, privateers, and rough and tumble trade practices were common.

Bear


From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] No sugar - too much spice.
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 10:27:32 -0500

<snip of measurements - see measurements-msg>

> Another complication is that sometimes amounts are probably given
> in terms of the cost of the ingredient, as in 'a denier's worth
> of cinnamon'.  There is ongoing controversy about whether it was
> really based on value; or whether 'denier' meant a specific small
> weight, or specific small volume, in such circumstances.

In the case of spices, we are talking about a specific weight.  A denier is
the French equivalent of a pennyweight or a scruple, 24 grains or 1/20 ounce
Troy.

As a coin, the denier is a silver penny, which buys a lot of spice, even at
Medieval prices.

> One can
> easily imagine some medieval spices taking three years to get
> from tree to table (for example one year Indonesia to India, one
> year India to Egypt, one year Egypt to Paris).

It would take about a year to move spices from field to Egypt making use of
the seasonal winds.  Spices brought from the harvesting sites to the ports
on the West Coast of India where they were sold to traders who shipped the
spices to Mocha then north on the Red Sea to Egypt.

We are talking a trade that is several millenia old and whose participants
knew the growing a travel cycles to optimize the delivery of the spices, so
any delays in the system are probably related to striking a price rather
than the actual transport.

In the 1st Century, Roman merchants opened direct trade with India and
Taprobane to break the Arab monopoly.  By using large galleys, they could
operate in heavier seas and did not rely on the wind.  This could cut the
transport time to under a year.

For a look at the spice trade in the 6th Century, try the Topographia
Christiana of Cosmas Indicopleustes.  There are supposedly a couple of
English translations, one by J.W. McCrindle in 1887 and one by E.O. Winstedt
in 1909.  I haven't found either, but I haven't been seriously searching for
them.

In the early Medieval Period, when European spices were largely shipped
through Byzantium and traffic in Europe was very irregular, several years
might be in order.  After the 10th Century, when various Italian cities
opened direct trade with Egypt, the transit time of the goods would start
shrinking.

By the time the Portuguese entered the game, it was about a one year cycle
from field to Europe and a few more months to spread the spices into the
ports of Europe.  This does not take into account the problems of striking a
price, finding buyers or being overstocked.

> I have zero evidence, but it wouldn't entirely surprise me to
> learn that for some specific spices the medieval methods of
> careful packing and shipping (in anticipation of long journeys)
> could have been superior to modern methods, and could have resulted
> in 'fresher' spices despite possibly longer transit times.

> Thorvald

From what I've seen, there is not much difference in the way spices are
harvested or packed from the methods expected of Medieval harvesters.  The
shipping will be faster.

Where the difference lies is that in the Middle Ages and Renaissance, spices
were kept whole and ground to order.  Whole spices better hold their
aromatic oils than ground spices.  Since most spices today are ground and
packaged, then shipped to the grocery there may be a delay of several months
between grinding and use, although hermetic sealing helps the spices keep
their flavor, they tend to lose potency once they are opened.

The two year old ground cinnamon in my baking cabinet doesn't have much
bite, but the five year old stick cinnamon which hides in a jar in the same
cabinet is still potent.

Bear


From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 12:23:50 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] spice trade transit time

Thorvald, you wanted information about sea transit times in the spice trade.
I was a little puzzled that there wasn't much out there so I hit  my library
and found some items.  The quotes were a little more than I wanted to type,
so I've paraphrased and tried to provide sources.  I've also tossed in some
information about the 15th Century Chinese trade and cargo packing.

Arab Seafaring by George F. Hourani gives the following information.

Quoting the Periplus of the Erythrean Sea and Pliny's Natural Histories,
Hourani provides that Hippalus, a Greek, was the first to use the southwest
monsoon (winter) to sail from Arabia to the Malabar coast, probably in the
2nd Century BCE.  It was a fast but dangerous passage requiring extensive
blue water sailing.  I found this interesting because it is in direct
opposition to a common idea that the Mediterranean sailors were primarily
coastal sailors spending nights on the shore.

 Goods from the Mediterranean were shipped south on the Nile then
transported either overland or by canal to Berenice on the Red Sea.
Starting in July, it was 30 days sail to Cane (Cana or Kane in Yemen).  With
the monsoon it was 40 days sail from Ocealis (somewhere near Mocha, Arabia)
to Muziris ofn the Malabar coast of India.  Hourani identifies Muziris as
Mysore, but most other historians disagree.  For our purpose, it's close
enough.  So a maximum 70 days fast passage from Egypt to India in the 1st
Century with another month (my estimate) between Alexandria and Berenice.

Return voyages were made in summer when the prevailing winds are from the
northeast.

The Akhbar al-Sin w-al-Hind (mid 9th Century) gives a sailing time from
Muscat to Canton of 120 days or:

Musqat to Kulam Mali - 1 lunar month
Kulam to Kalah Bar - 1 month
Kalah to Sanf Fulaw - 1 month
Sanf  Fulaw to Canton - 1 month

Kulam Mali is a port on the Malabar coast.  Kalah Bar equates roughly to
Kedah, Malaya.  Sanf Fulaw was part of the Champa kingdom in eastern
Indo-China (South Vietnam?)

Average speed was just over 2 knots per hour.  Beginning the voyage in
November or December and adding 2 months of trading time gives the best
conditions of wind and weather to arrive in Canton in April or May with time
to trade and catch the favorable northeast winds back.

A passage from Aden to the Malabar coast by Buzurg ibn-Shahriyar had an
estimated average speed of between 3 and 4 knots.

Al-Mariwazi (12th Century) place a days voyage with a fair wind at about 150
nautical miles or 6.2 knots.

About the beginning of the 10th Century direct Arab trade with China ceased.
Trade between China and al-Islam continued at Kalah Bar.  Between 1405 and
1433, the Chinese would send a trading fleet into the Indian Ocean to trade
with India, Arabia and Africa.  The voyages would last over a year each and
have supply ships, water tankers, a field army with cavalry, and trade
ships, the largest vessel being over 400 feet in length (the Santa Maria was
only 98 feet).  The first fleet consisted of 317 ships.  Among the shipping
containers used by this fleet were thousands of large terracotta jars and
smaller glazed jars (similar to ginger jars) for storing spices and to be
traded.  Louise Levathes When China Ruled the Seas makes some questionable
comments, but it covers the fleet fairly accurately.  One of the Chinese
ships has been salvaged within the last few years and a documentary made of
the operation.

Vasco da Gama's first voyage to India lasted less than 2 years.  On November
22, 1497, he rounded the Cape of Good Hope and was off the Natal coast on
December 25th.  He spent some time along the coast of Africa and in
Mozambique, then sailed to India.  IIRC, he returned to Portugal in the Fall
of 1498.  Some of his later voyages were slightly more than a year in
length, but in most cases, da Gama was engaged in diplomacy or combat.  With
factors on the ground in Malabar to handle the purchasing, a round trip
could be made in under a year.

So my best guess is that spices were no more than 1 year to 1 1/2 years old
when they were sold in Europe with the possible exception of the Early
Medieval period.  Of course, this doesn't address the issue of shelf time
after they were sold.

Bear


Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 00:08:27 -0700
To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
From: James Prescott <prescotj at telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] spice trade transit time

At 12:23 -0500 2001-05-13, Decker, Terry D. wrote:
> Thorvald, you wanted information about sea transit times in the spice trade.

Many thanks for the excellent information.

> It was a fast but dangerous passage requiring extensive
> blue water sailing.  I found this interesting because it is in direct
> opposition to a common idea that the Mediterranean sailors were primarily
> coastal sailors spending nights on the shore.

A very widely believed semi mis-perception.  It seems to have been
largely true of the Classical Greek oared vessels, and continued to
be true for many other kinds of Mediterranean ship, oared and sailed,
right down to the present day.  However, by Roman times if not earlier
some vessels such as the grain ships from Egypt to Ostia (Rome) went
'direct' rather than coasting.

It _was_ true that the Mediterranean sailors were "primarily coastal
sailors", as long as the emphasis is on "primarily" rather than
"exclusively".  It also seems that while light coastal ships might
be pulled up on the shore at night, most heavier vessels would have
anchored and the crew would have stayed on board.

See e.g. Bass "A History of Seafaring" and Lewis et al "European
Naval and Maritime History, 300-1500".

  Side note: Once one overcomes the fear of sailing out of sight of
  land, and has acquired a sufficient store of no-landmark navigation
  skills (see e.g. Lewis "We, the Navigators"), it is actually much
  safer to be well out into blue water than to be near a coast.

> The Akhbar al-Sin w-al-Hind (mid 9th Century) gives a sailing time from
> Muscat to Canton of 120 days or:
>
> Musqat to Kulam Mali - 1 lunar month
> Kulam to Kalah Bar - 1 month
> Kalah to Sanf Fulaw - 1 month
> Sanf  Fulaw to Canton - 1 month
>
> Kulam Mali is a port on the Malabar coast.  Kalah Bar equates roughly to
> Kedah, Malaya.  Sanf Fulaw was part of the Champa kingdom in eastern
> Indo-China (South Vietnam?)

We can probably drop the last two legs when considering the spices of
Indonesia bound for the Middle East or Europe; though we have to add
again some allowance of time for those spices that were only available
from more easterly islands in what is now Indonesia.  They would have
to travel from there to (say) Kalah Bar.

It is certainly a faster transit time that I would have guessed.  It
may have been qualified with "given favourable winds", which would mean
that in some years such voyages could have taken much longer due to
having to wait for the favourable winds.  Still, quite rapid.

Thorvald


From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] spice trade transit time
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 15:24:02 -0500

> It is certainly a faster transit time that I would have guessed.  It
> may have been qualified with "given favourable winds", which
> would mean
> that in some years such voyages could have taken much longer due to
> having to wait for the favourable winds.  Still, quite rapid.

The general wind patterns of the Indian Ocean and the South China Sea are
fairly regular, so if one times arrival and departure accordingly,
"favorable winds" and general good weather are a given.  Most of the
information I've found suggests voyages of about 1 year duration with a goal
of being in and out before the typhoon season.

The "speed run" from Arabia to the Malabar coast was dangerous because it
was made running a few points off a monsoon wind.  The voyage required a
vessel able to stand heavy seas and strong winds.  Smaller vessels followed
the coast, wearing to change direction (at least after the introduction of
the lateen sail).

To further reduce overall times, European concerns and the Chinese resorted
to factoring.  A resident agent could handle disposition of in-bound
cargoes, arrange for out-bound cargoes, and handle the petty details such as
loading, unloading, bribing officials, etc.  A good factor could shave
several months of trading time off a voyage.  Apparently, the first
Portuguese factors arrived with Cabral in 1500 for da Gama was sent to India
in 1502 to protect Portuguese commercial interests and establishments.

As a small aside, the return trip of da Gama's first voyage to India took 9
months and five days from 5 Oct 1498 to 10 July 1499.

> > Among the shipping
> > containers used by this fleet were thousands of large terracotta jars and
> > smaller glazed jars (similar to ginger jars) for storing spices and to be
> > traded.
>
> Interesting.  I wonder how widely such jars would have been used, if at
> all, for spices destined for Europe.  And if they were used, whether
> they would have helped preserve flavour.

The large terra cotta jars are apparently still widely used in the East
Indies and India for storage and hauling.  The smaller jars are less common.
IIRC, The large jars were sealable for carrying fluids (such as potable
water).

If you fill a jar with whole spices and seal it, the storage will help
preserve the flavor simply by reducing the surface exposure of the spices to
the air.  Since the jars were introduced 80 years before da Gama arrived, it
is possible they were used in the European trade, although tarred or pitched
boxes and barrels work as well for transport.

> If spices were shipped whole, or if they were sealed in jars (the
> possibility is hinted at by the Chinese example), or both, then I
> would venture to guess that at least some cooks could have had quite
> fresh spices for use, at least occasionally.
>
> Thorvald

Spices were almost certainly transported and stored whole until they reached
the apothecary, spicer or cook, who ground them for sale or use.  That being
the case, even with a two year delay, period spices are likely to have been
fresher than many of today's ground and packaged spices.

Bear


Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 15:10:49 -0700
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
From: James Prescott <prescotj at telusplanet.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] OT trireme seaworthiness

At 09:30 -0700 2001-05-14, Chris Stanifer wrote:
> I'm not positive this was due to a fear of being out
> of sight of land, at least not in antiquity.  From
> what I have heard, the early Greek Triremes and
> similar vessels of Rome were not entirely 'seaworthy'.
>  This may be a misconception, in itself, and if so,
> could possibly be one reason why this belief has
> propogated.

I don't think our knowledge is good enough to say for certain whether
or not they were as seaworthy as other craft; nor whether they were
seaworthy enough to sail directly from Crete to Egypt, for example.

That they generally hugged the shore is not in dispute.  That might
or might not have been a reflection of their general seaworthiness.

If one aspect of being 'seaworthy' is to handle large waves, that's
actually easier out in the blue water.  Waves steepen as they enter
shallower water.  Steeper waves are more likely to break and threaten
a vessel.

Tim Severin's modern replica of the Argo (circa 1250 BC, 20 oars)
survived a gale in the Black Sea with only a snapped steering oar;
though it was clearly an experience they did not wish to repeat
unnecessarily.

Thorvald


From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] spice trade transit time
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 10:00:46 -0500

> Is da Gama's voyage really a good example? Since it was
> mainly political in
> nature, I would assume that  he would have been delayed many
> times to take care of necessary visits to local dignitaries, etc.

Da Gama's voyage serves as a readily accessible baseline.  The trip to
Calcutta took just over 11 months and we know that da Gama was engaged in
gunboat diplomacy along the African coast during this period.  He spent 4
1/2 months along the Indian coast and just over 9 months on the return
voyage.  The return voyage is probably more indicative of the actual sailing
time to Europe, although, IIRC he made a few flag stops in Africa to
reinforce his treaties on the return.

> We are also assuming
> that the spice trade was controled by Europe early on which is definitely not
> the case. Arab merchants traded through Venice for the majority of the middle
> ages. It was not until the end of SCA time that the Europeans
> took any direct hand in direct spice trading.

There is a distinct difference between the "spice trade" and "direct trading
in spices."  The first covers all aspects of the trade, the second access to
the original sources.  From about the 4th Century to the beginning of the
16th Century, the Arabs controlled the sources of the spices and the trade
into the Mediterranean.  The trade into Europe proper was controlled first
by Byzantium and then by Venice.  I believe you will find Venice supported
the sack of Constantinople in 1202, weakening the Byzantines sufficiently
for Venice to take over the spice trade.

The Arabs controlled the sources of the spices and traded with the
Venetians, who became the distributors of spices in Europe.  The Arab
merchants in Egypt and the European merchants in Venice served as the
"middlemen" of the spice trade.  If you follow the money, Europeans,
especially Venetians, were very much involved in and controlled the European
end of the spice trade.

Da Gama's second voyage broke the Egypt/Venice spice monopoly.  Venice was
so heavily tied into the spice trade, that the loss of revenue directly
contributed to the loss of Venice's overseas possessions and its eventual
subjugation by Austria in the 18th Century.

> A trip around Africa was not necessary for the Arab traders. I would theorize
> that throughout most of the SCA time period spices were considerably fresher
> and that it was not until the rise of the Portuguese trade in the 16th
> century CE that we find spices that were of questionable freshness. Most
> certainly, IMO, available Arabian spices were much more potent for the 800+
> years before Portugal rounded the African continent.
>
> Ras

So, when do whole spices lose their potency?  Shipping to Egypt takes 4 to 5
months.  Sailing around Africa takes 8 or 9 months.

The Arabs sold primarily to the Venetians, who transhipped the spices to
Venice, then distributed them into Europe.  The Portuguese sold directly to
European spice dealers in Lisbon.  How do you factor the various delays?

And finally, I think the longest transit time in the European spice trade
would be in the final distribution to the cities of Europe where the spices
had to travel over land.  This would have been more difficult and time
consuming in the 8th Century than in the 16th.

All in all, I don't think there would be much difference in the ultimate
freshness at delivery throughout the SCA period.

BTW, double that 800 years.  The Arabs were in the spice trade almost that
long before Muhammad brought them to Islam.  The Romans cut out the Arab
middlemen from the 1st to 4th Centuries, but with Rome's decline, the Arabs
took back the trade.

Bear


From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] spice trade transit time
Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 09:16:35 -0500

> Also I had thought I read mention of Toledo as
> a distribution point through the Moors. Have you read
> anything about that possibility?
>
> Ras

I've never heard of Toledo as a spice trading city, sword blades and
textiles, yes, spices, no.  However, one spice which Toledo was noted for is
saffron.  Ahmad ibn Muhammad al-Razi (10th Century geographer) mentions that
the best saffron in color and aroma came from Toledo.

The location and quality of exports might have made Toledo the end
distributor for central Iberia in the spice trade, but that is speculation.

Bear


Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 21:35:14 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] argh spicing
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Having looked at this problem previously, I would estimate that the time
from harvest to European port was six to 18 months.  The travel time into
Central Europe is problematic and likely varied widely.  Given the state of
Europe after the fall of Rome, the movement of spices from Byzantium into
the rest of Europe might have taken several years and been reduced to
several months when trade had improved and the political climate was
favorable.

For much of period, most spices (true grains of paradise is an obvious
exception) traveled from Southern Asia up the Red Sea for delivery to the
markets in Alexandria.  They then were disbursed around the Mediterranean.
In the 16th Century, the Portuguese opened a route around Africa to Lisbon.
Vasco de Gama's return voyage lasted 9 months, but he was stopping to handle
political and military matters.

Spices were very likely shipped in water-proofed barrels or boxes, which
would help retain freshness.  They were certainly shipped whole and probably
stayed that way until prepared by the apothecary selling them or the cook or
physician who bought them.  It would be interesting to see how well whole
spices keep over time in apothecary jars.

And as a question I haven't researched, does anyone know how long it takes
harvest and transfer spices (outside of the large food processing  
companies) today?

Bear

> I have often wondered about the aspects of freshness and
> quality of the spices used then. When they say "good" do they
> mean qood in expensive or qood in quantity as to an amount
> used or "good" in quality? How long did it take the ships or
> caravans to reach the European markets from those far off
> shores of the Spice Islands and Southeast Asia? There are these
> edicts today that say one must toss one's spices and replace
> every year, but are those spices of any worse quality than those used
> 6 or 7 centuries ago. No one would have tossed spices then given
> their cost. Keeping them in whole or ground form
> makes a difference of course and fresh grinding at the moment
> they are finally used can lend a discernable difference.
> I see this entire question of spicing (and of salt and pepper) and
> even herb use to be far more complicated than we give it credit.
> It's an area that needs more work in. I have often thought that
> a series of trials would be interesting for certain dishes whereby
> the same dish is served with little, more, still more, and most spicing
> to actually see which is preferred or better.
>
> Johnnae llyn Lewis


Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 16:56:57 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] FW: Elizabethans using Platina and proper
	cookware
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> I'm working on researching my cinnamon, pepper, and other spices for how I
> would have obtained them.  I'm assuming I would have purchased them form a
> spicer in London.  I want to know HOW they would have come to London.
>
> Dame Arwen Lioncourt  OP

The primary source for spices in Elizabethean England was the Lisbon spice
market, however English traders also traded with the Arabs in North Africa
for sugar and spices and were already moving into the Spice Islands by the
time of Francis Drake's circumnavigation (1577-1580).  The Lisbon spice
market was closed to the English and the Dutch in 1594 forcing the founding
of the Dutch East India Company that year and the formation of the English
East India Company (chartered December 31, 1600).

Following Vasco da Gama's successful voyage of 1497-98, Lisbon became a
major spice port in Europe.  Dealing directly with Portuguese factories in
India, they were able to cut prices and reduce the power of Venice, who had
the Alexandians as middlemen.  In 1536, the Portuguese took Sri Lanka and
effective control of the cinnamon trade.  They controlled the trade until
1658, when the Dutch seized the island.

Bear


Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 08:59:51 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] fashion and spices (was Grains of Paradise)
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> Regina suggested:
> "Wars in Africa which cut the trade routes so thoroughly and so long
> that people got out of the habit of  using them."
>    Please date and define African geographical areas concerning trade
> route reductions of grains of paradise. I study 15th century Spanish
> history up to 1474 in particular. All other personal knowledge is from
> dabbling. I, therefore, am not cognizant of African affairs affecting
> African spice trade after that period.

The primary areas involved (IIRC) are Ghana, Togo, Liberia, Cote d' Ivorie,
and Nigeria.  The chief trade route would have been through the medieval
Kingdom of Mali via Timbuktu, north to Algeria or Tunisia.

>    I am well aware of the fact that Protestants prohibited spices in
> England with Queen Elizabeth I in the 16th Century as that was an
> anti-Roman Catholic measure.

Sources, please.  To my knowledge, Elizabethean England actively traded in
and used spices and sugar.

'The Age of Discovery', on the other hand,
> to my knowledge was aimed at developing spice routes to counter prices
> of the Muslims who controlled the Silk Route.

From at least the 2nd Century BCE, spice were shipped primarily by sea to
ports on the north end of the Red Sea, then by canal and Nile barge
(depending on whether the canal was useable) to Alexandria or overland to
Alexandria and the Levant.  Lower cost, faster delivery, better product than
anything that could be delivered over the Silk Road.

Spices may have come over the Silk Road, but I am beginning to think that
they were more likely meant for the markets of Central Asia, than the
markets of Europe.

> Perhaps Queen Bessy
> preferred ruining her teeth with honey (as sugar was so scarce it used
> primarily as medicine in cold England.) and sending all good English
> colonists to spread the word of her God (to fatten her honey comb)
> without pepper pots to spice route development in accordance with the
> puritan movement.

From what I've seen of the household accounts, Good Queen Bess liked her
sugar.  As for "in accordance with the puritan movement," unfortunately,
Elizabeth was the secular head of the Church of England and definitely not a
Puritan.  Puritans were Dissenters from the Church of England and in many
ways opposed to the Crown.

<clipped>
>    The Spaniards dominated slave trade with their center in Las Palmas
> and competed with the Portuguese in African spice trade thanks to their
> territories in Africa but within 200 years after the discovery of
> Central and South America they learned how to use American agricultural
> produces and busily exported pepper products, sugar and chocolate  
> among others to Europe.
<clipped>
>
> Susan

Sugar is an Old World crop introduced to the New World on Columbus' second
voyage.  Production in the Old World was largely controlled by the Arabs and
the 16th Century was a period of rising demand with limited growth
possibilities at home.  Therefore, the Caribbean sugar plantation became an
ideal solution to grabbing market share.  It is also very likely that the
extreme conditions of the sugar plantations and the continuous need for
more laborers greatly expanded the slave trade from what it was at the end
of the 15th Century.

Bear


Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 23:58:43 -0500
From: Gretchen Beck <grm at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Protestants prohibited spices in England?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

--On Friday, December 29, 2006 10:44 PM -0500 Elaine Koogler
<kiridono at gmail.com> wrote:

> Nope...if memory serves, other spices show up in Elizabethan recipes as
> well...so I am not sure about this statement myself.  I don't have any
> examples at hand at the moment...but recall a cauliflower recipe that used
> nutmeg, pickled mushrooms that used mace and nutmeg, etc.  As you said, I
> can see it with the Roundheads/Puritans, but not with Elizabeth I.

Did a quick google search, but didn't find anything (well, found a journal
article that mentioned a prohibition of pepper imports into England in the
late 16th C, but this was because there had been a high number of pepper
prizes captured, and the crown was having a hard time converting their
pepper to money domestically...but that's not anything like the same  
thing).

toodles, margaret


Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 01:27:37 -0500
From: Daniel Myers <edoard at medievalcookery.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Spices in England
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Just some notes to put some perspective on this.

I've got numbers for the occurrence of various spices in medieval
cookbooks online at the following:1

	http://www.medievalcookery.com/statistics.shtm

While these don't directly indicate the quantities of spices
consumed, they're useful on a conceptual level.  Since sugar and
nutmeg were specifically mentioned, I'll take a moment to extract
their entries.  The values are the percent of the total recipes in
the source containing the substance in question.

Sugar

27%  -  Forme of Cury (England, 1390)
14%  -  Liber cure cocorum (England, 1430)
39%  -  Two Fifteenth-Century Cookery Books (England, 1450)
46%  -  A Proper newe Booke of Cokerye (England, 1550)
57%  -  The Good Housewife's Jewell (England, 1596)


Nutmeg

0%  -  Forme of Cury (England, 1390)
0%  -  Liber cure cocorum (England, 1430)
< 1%  -  Two Fifteenth-Century Cookery Books (England, 1450)
0%  -  A Proper newe Booke of Cokerye (England, 1550)
10%  -  The Good Housewife's Jewell (England, 1596)

It's worth noting that nutmeg appears in 22% of the recipes in Du
fait de cuisine (France, 1420).

As for the cost of these spices, Prof. John H. Munro of the
University of Toronto has a wonderful source online.

	http://www.economics.utoronto.ca/munro5/SPICES1.htm

In it he lists the cost of spices in Antwerp, London, and Oxford from
1438-1439.  While these costs are indeed higher (relatively) than
we'd pay now, they aren't so high as to be out of reach of anyone
other than the poor.

A pound of sugar is listed anywhere from 1.24 to 4 days wages for a
skilled laborer (carpenter).  Yes, this is a lot, but very few people
go through a pound of sugar a day.

Nutmeg isn't one of the spices he lists, but he does list mace for
Oxford.  A pound of mace cost 6 days of wages for a skilled laborer.
Now maybe you guys like mace more than I do, but I really doubt that
I've come anywhere close to using up a pound of mace in my life.  I
think it took me several years to go through a two ounce jar.

A carpenter or mason in 15th century London may not have been able to
afford as much sugar as he'd want, but I suspect he'd buy a little on
the rare occasion.  For other spices though, he was able to afford as
much spice as he was likely to use (with the exception of saffron, of
course).

- Doc


Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 03:00:24 -0500
From: Gretchen Beck <grm at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Spices in England
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

--On Sunday, December 31, 2006 1:27 AM -0500 Daniel Myers
<edoard at medievalcookery.com> wrote:
> Just some notes to put some perspective on this.
>
> I've got numbers for the occurrence of various spices in medieval
> cookbooks online at the following:1
>
> 	http://www.medievalcookery.com/statistics.shtm
>
> While these don't directly indicate the quantities of spices
> consumed, they're useful on a conceptual level.  Since sugar and
> nutmeg were specifically mentioned, I'll take a moment to extract
> their entries.

Another, spefically 16th C followup -- www.british-history.ac.uk has a
transcription of the London port books from 1567/8. I did a quick check on
sugar and nutmeg on the ships between September 1567 and January 1568:

Sugar (Not counting sugar candy, which is listed as a separate item):
48,425 lbs
Nutmeg: 1650 lbs
(This is on something like 300 ships, although since most ships are making
purchases for several different merchants, there may be three different
records per ship for the same product.

I note too, that winter/spring appears to be sugar season, as in the
Febuary-March records there are 51 entries for sugar (there are
approximately 100 ships per month).

Now, assuming a London only distribution (not a very reasonable assumption,
but what the heck), and a population of approximately 245,000 (which,
according to <http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/dramasoc.htm> was the
population of London in 1600), we get around a pound of sugar per person in
London per year.

If anyone is interested in doing a more complete count, or seeing some
numbers from the 15th C, there are also customs records from 1480/1.

toodles, margaret


Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 13:46:53 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Gastronomica on Spice Trade, Apicius and Martino
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>,
	"mk-cooks at midrealm.org" <mk-cooks at midrealm.org>

The latest issue of Gastronomica 7:2 Spring 2007
features these articles that may be of interest to the list:

The Medieval Spice Trade and the Diffusion of the Chile by Clifford Wright pp. 35-43
The Myth of  Apicius by Sally Grainger, pp 71-77.
Two Ways of Looking at Master Martino by Nancy Harmon Jenkins pp 97-103
plus a number of other assorted articles including Gateaux Algeriens
with several marvelous pictures of pastries. B&N and Borders usually carry issues of it.

Johnna


Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 10:26:05 -0400
From: Daniel Myers <edoard at medievalcookery.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Olive oil (was Re: Bread Recipe from my files)
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Jul 12, 2007, at 2:08 PM, V A wrote:

> Olive oil was (and has been, for all of recorded history) used prolifically
> for many purposes -- medicinal, cosmetic, and culinary -- all along the
> Mediterranean.  Of course, the farther north you go in Europe, the harder it
> is to cultivate olives, so if olive oil was used in northern Europe, it
> would have been (for most of the Middle Ages) a fairly expensive commodity,
> since it had to be imported...so if you're looking at, say, 14th-century
> English recipes, you wouldn't see a ton of olive oil, but it'd be
> all over the Italian cookbooks of the same period.

While olives (or at least olive oil) would have been imported into
northern Europe, I don't believe that they were so rare as to be
hugely expensive.

We already see a substantial use of almonds in 14th century English
cooking, and they also were imported.  They're a substantial
component a large number of meatless-day recipes.  Like almonds,
olive oil keeps and travels well.  As it is a vegetable oil, it is
also suited to meatless-day recipes.  It is quite easy to imagine an
English merchant purchasing many barrels of it each year through an
agent in Italy (where it would be quite cheap).

Professor John H. Munro's article, "Spices and Their Costs in
Medieval Europe" (see link) has demonstrated that the cost of
imported spices was much lower than commonly believed (by my
calculations, about 10 times what we'd pay in the grocery store today
- no where near "worth its weight in gold").

http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~munro5/SPICES1.htm

I'll try to find more concrete evidence, but given the above in
connection with the number of recipes I've seen which call for olive
oil (including some that use it for frying), I'm inclined to believe
that while it was more expensive than lard, it was not considered
overly expensive and was commonly used in large quantities by the
middle and upper classes.

- Doc


Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 07:06:56 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Spice History
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>,
	SCA_Subtleties at yahoogroups.com, SCA-AuthenticCooks at yahoogroups.com,
	"SCAFoodandFeasts at yahoogroups.com" <SCAFoodandFeasts at yahoogroups.com>

There's a new interesting website on spices.
http://spicehistory.net/SPICE%20%20HISTORY.html

The creator of the site is Michael Krondl. He's the author of the new
book Conquest: The Rise and Fall of the Three Great Cities of Spice.
It's due to be published at the end of October.
The book looks at the supply, demand and trade of spices and at the
spice centers of Venice, Lisbon and Amsterdam.

Johnnae


Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 08:16:16 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Spicing was Non-Pennsic SCA activities?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Two new books that talk about the spice trade are:

Freedman, Paul. /Out of the East. Spices and the Medieval Imagination/. 
New Haven: Yale University Press, 2008.

Krondl, Michael. /The Taste of Conquest. The Rise and Fall of the Three 
Great Cities of Spice/. New York: Ballantine Books, 2007.

Johnnae


Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 16:27:25 -0600 (MDT)
From: Linda Peterson <mirhaxa at morktorn.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Spicing was Non-Pennsic SCA activities?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> Krondl, Michael. /The Taste of Conquest. The Rise and Fall of the Three
> Great Cities of Spice/. New York: Ballantine Books, 2007.

This is a wonderful book to read, not just informative but amusing as 
well. His description of the path of the spices is interesting. The most 
distant, cloves and nutmeg, had a 3000 mile sail just to get to India 
where they joined pepper and others before being traded to other shippers 
who sailed the spices around through the Red and Arabian Seas. They were 
then loaded on camel caravans, to Egyptian Alexandria or Byzantine 
Trebizond on the Black Sea then to Constantinople. Then they were picked 
up by Venitians, who took them home and redistributed them yet again to 
the rest of Europe. Not a short trip.

 	Mirhaxa


Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 10:41:01 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Book Question

<<< Just picked up "The Taste of Conquest; the rise and fall of the three great cities of spice" by Michael Krondl. Does anyone know anything about it/ have an opinion in its regard? 

Daniel >>>

It's a non-scholarly look at the spice trade from Late Medieval through Early Modern and how it affected Venice, Lisbon and Amsterdam.  It's a fun, easy read and you may find questions to pursue in greater depth.  It does not get deeply into the intracies of the spice trade or look at the trade much before the rise of Venice in the trade, as I recall.  I have had the paperback for several years and I was able to purchase the hardbound edition for my collection this Spring at a reasonable price, but I haven't re-read the book or compared the editions.

A more detailed but equally entertaining look at the spice trade is John Keay's The Spice Route.

Most, if not all, of the books on the spice trade lack detail on the trade in Europe between the 5th Century and the dissolution of the Western Empire and the 11th Century and the beginning of the Crusades.

Bear


Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 07:20:18 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Book Question

On Jul 13, 2012, at 7:04 AM, Daniel And elizabeth phelps wrote:
<<< Just picked up "The Taste of Conquest; the rise and fall of the three great cities of spice" by Michael Krondl. Does anyone know anything about it/ have an opinion in its regard? 

Daniel >>>

I have it listed as"
"Krondl, Michael. The Taste of Conquest. The Rise and Fall of the Three Great Cities of Spice. New York: Ballantine Books, 2007. A volume with a totally different point of view, Krondl looks at the spice trade in the cities of Venice, Lisbon, and Amsterdam, with mentions given to modern Baltimore and Calcutta."

It doesn't attempt to cover euverything, but it's rather interesting for the cities it does cover. 

Johnnae 

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