p-prices-msg – 9/8/13

Prices for various medieval items.

NOTE: See also the files: commerce-msg, measures-art, measures-msg, guilds-msg, coins-msg, occupations-msg, p-Engsh-coins-lst, p-lawyers-msg.

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From: lee at sq.sq.com (Liam R. E. Quin)
Date: 18 Aug 91 22:56:48 GMT
Organization: SoftQuad Inc., Toronto, Canada

I have lots more stuff like this, some with prices for more every-day sorts
of things.  If I get replies, I'll see if I can post some more.  If you
reply, please say where you saw this article...

I don't believe there could be 13,340 poor people at a funeral, or at any
rate I find it strange, but that's what it says!

Lee

As usual in these postings, _l_ _s_ _d_ are Pounds, Shillings and Pence:
        12_d_ = 1s, 20_s_ = 1_l_.

I've kept the old spelling, but with s for tall-s.  _Italics_ ; [[my notes]]


_A shorte draught of the charge of the buriall of our lord and maister
[Henry Percy] earl of Northum-
berland : [who died 28. Apr. 1489.] whose soule Jesu pardon._ [[see footnote]]

_From a_ MS. _sheet ( once Peter Le Neve's esq.) now in the hands of the
publisher._

April 28.
4.H.7.1489. [[printed in the margin next to the large `F']]

First, for the balmynge, fencyng and scowering of the corse,    _l_._s_._d_.
with the webbe of led and chest         --              ---     13   6   8
  _Item_, for the wax of the herse, by estimation      ---      26  13   4
  _Item_, for the tymber and paynting of the herse      ---      5   0   0
  _Item_, for 400 torches, after 2_s_. 8_d_. the peece  --      53   6   8
  _Item_, for a standart        --      --      --       ---     4   0   0
  _Item_, for a baner      ---           ----           --       3   6   8
  _Item_, for his cote armer of seynet, betyn with his amys --   5   0   0
  _Item_, for 12 baners of sarcenet, betyn with my lord's armys,
                        at 10 _s_. the pece     ---     ---      6   0   0
  _Item_, for 100 pensells of sarcenet, at 12 _d_. the pece      5   0   0
  _Item_, for 60 scutchions of buckeram betyn with my lord's
armys (hole armys) at 12 _d_ the pece, for the chaire,
herse, and church       ---             ---             ---      3   0   0
  _Item_, to 40 poor men, for the bering of torches on horseback,
one day (from Wresill to Lekinfield) 18 myles at 2_s_. a man --- 4   0   0
  _Item_, for 100 men on foote, at 6_d_.a man a day; _viz_. from
Lekinfield to Beverley 1 day; and at Beverley the day of the
burial, 1 day           ---                     ---              5   0   0
  _Item_, for the suffrages of 6 churchas the wil met the corse
by the way, after 13_s_. 4_d_. the church (besids the torches) - 4   0   0
  _Item_, for the reward to two officers of armys, for their
helpe and payne in orduring, during the said buriall, at 10 _l_.
the pece for coming from London, their costs and reward  --     20   0   0
  _Item_, for al maner of dues belongiong to the churche where
the corse shall rest  ---        ---            ---        --   20   0   0
  _Item_, for 12 gownes, for lords (after 3 yerds in a gowne,
at 5 _s_. the yerd)        ---          ---             ---     21   0   0
  _Item_, for 20 gownes for gentlewomen (after 3 yerds in a
gowne, at 5 _s_. the yerd)      ---             ---             15   0   0
  _Item_, for 24 gownes with hods, for lords and knyghts (at
10 _s_. the yerd, and after 5 yerds in every gowne and
hode) with the executors          ---            ---     ---    60   0   0
  _Item_, for 60 gownes with typets for squyers and gentlemen
(at 6 _s_. 8 _d_. th yerd, and after 4 yerds in every gowne
and typett)         ---             ---             ---         80   0   0
  _Item_, for 200 gownes for yeomen an headfor. . . . . (after
3 _s_. 4 _d_. the yerd, and after 3 yerds in every gowne)   -- 120   0   0
  _Item_, for 160 gownes of course black, for pore folke, for
torch bearers and outher (after 3 yerds in a gowne, and after
2 _s_. the yerd)           ---             ---          ---     42   0   0
  _Item_, for 400 yerds of course black, for hangonge the
church & the chapells, (at 2 _s_. the yerd)     ---       ---   40   0   0
  _Item_, for 500 priests that will come to the said buriall;
& if they do not, the outher must be fulfilled the next day;
after 12 _d_. the pece, according to the will.       ---        25   0   0
  _Item_, for 1000 clerks that comyth to the said buriall,
after 4 _d_. the pece   ---              ---            ---     16  13   4
  _Item_, for 100 gownes for gromes & gentlemen's servants
(after 3 _s_. 4 _d_. the yerd, & after 3 yerds in every gowne)  50   0   0
  _Item_, for the dole at the said buriall, after 2 _d_. to
every pore body that comyth the day of the burial; [allowing
the number of the said poor folks to be, as I presume they were
on the said day of burial] 13340, after 2 _d_. the pece,
according to the will           ---             ---        --- 123   6   8
  _Item_, for the costs & expencs of meat and drinke, &
horse-meate, going and comyng to the said buriall (_viz_. one
day from Wresil to Lekinfeld, by the space of 18 myles; and
one day tarrying at Beverley, for the buriall; & one day,
returning from Beverley to Wresil, 18 myles)        ---        266   13   4
  _Item_, for the mortuaries, his armys, his huishe-men, his
maister of the horse, and all such other things to be had of
my lord's owen store in the house.
                                                             -------------
                                Sum of all the said charges
                                                             -------------

[[the space for the sum is blank]]

This was reprinted in Francis Peck [1692-1743]'s _Desiderata Curiosa: Or,
A Collection of Divers Scarce And Curious Pieces Relating To Matters Of
English History; Consisting Of Choice Tracts, Memoirs, Letters, Wills,
Epitaphs, &c... A New Edition, Greatly Corrected, With Some Memoirs Of The
Life And Writings Of Mr. Peck_ [By T. Evans], Printed in London for
Thomas  Evans, 1779.

Apart from being a hot contender in the Longest Title Awards of the time :-),
it's quite fun...


There is a footnote on the first page of this:

Note 1: Henry Percy, E. of Northumberland, in the 4. H.
        7. being lieutenant of Yorkshire, and commanded by
        the king to levy those moneys, which were then extorted
        from the country, to carry on the war in Brittany;
        the vulgar, conceiving him to be the cause of that tax,
        tumultuously murthered him at Cockledge near Thresk
        (eighteen mules north of York) upon the day of S. Vitalis
        the martyr.  Whereopun he was buried at Beverley,
        where he hath a stately monment, but much defaced.
        _Baron_. Vol.I. p.282. _b_.

-- 
Liam Quin, lee at sq.com, SoftQuad, Toronto, 416 239-4801; the barefoot programmer

From: lee at sq.sq.com (Liam R. E. Quin)
Subject: Mediaeval Prices
Organization: SoftQuad Inc., Toronto, Canada
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 93 00:49:54 GMT

// This is one of a very occasional series of articles from old books; I post
// an installment every few months.  This one is from an 1883 transcription
// of a 16th Century collection of old manuscripts relating to Berkeley (in
// England, not California... Pronounced `barkly').
// The document gives prices from Edward Ist's reign and for two later times.
//
// Notes on Orthography (letters & spelling) and on Units of Money at the end
// of this document.  In general, the original spelling is retained.

*

(The Lives of the Berkeleyes, Vol I, p. 161, 1321)

*

Prices of Corne Cattle Pultry &c.

*Also* theis Accompts will truely informe this noble Family what were the
vsuall prices of Catle, Corne, Pultry and other provisions expended in the
house of this lord, and as the same were vsually bought and sold in fayres
and marketts duringe that twenty and seaven yeares of Edward the first
raigne, wherein this Lord lived a Baron, viz\t.

    Wheat the Quarter at	...	...	2s 4d, 3s, 4s and 5s
    Maslin the Quarter at	...	...	2s, 2s 4d, 3s and 4s
    Barly the Quarter at	...	...	20d, 2s 8d, 3s 4d, and 4s
    Beanes the Quarter at	...	...	2s, 2s 8d, 3s 4d, and 4s
    Otes the Quarter at	...	...	20d, 2s, 2s 4d |	[f.193]
    Pillcorne, from the Mill,
	the Quarter at	...	...	...	3s, 3s 8d
    An Oxe at	...	...	...	...	10s---11s---12s
    A Cowe and Calfe at	...	...	...	9s---10s
    A bacon Hogg at	...	...	...	5s---5s 6d
    A fat porket at	...	...	...	2s---2s 2d
    A fat sheep at	...	...	...	17d---18d---20d---2s
    A Lamb at	...	...	...	...	10d---12d
    A Goose at	...	...	...	...	3d
    A Capon at	...	...	...	...	2d		[p.162]
    A Hen at	...	...	...	...	1d ob~
    A Duck at	...	...	...	...	1d
    4 Pigeons	...	...	...	...	1d
    20 Eggs	...	...	...	...	1d

*And* in the fifteenth yeare of Kinge Edward the second, when thys Lord dyed,
the prices stood thus . viz\t.
  *Wheat*, the quarter	...	...	...	4s
    Maslin the quarter	...	...	...	3s
    Barly the quarter	...	...	...	3s
    Beanes the quarter	...	...	...	3s
    Otes the quarter	...	...	...	2s
    Fetches the quarter	...	...	...	20d
    Malt of wheat the Quarter	...	...	6s
    Malt of Otes the Quarter	...	...	2s 2d
    Malt of Barly the Quarter,	...	...	4s
    A Quarter of Apples	...	...	...	10d
    A Sturgeon in the xix th. of Edward the }
	second sold for			    }	26s 8d
    An oxe at	...	...	...	...	20s
    An Oxe hide 	...	...	...	3s 6d
    A Cowe and a Calfe, at	...	...	12s---13s---15s
    A sheep, beetweene	...	...	...	17d and 2s
    A Sheepskyn, accordinge to the growth of
	the fell, at 4d., 5d., 6d. such as were killed
	for provision of the house.
    A Lambe, at	...	...	...	...	12d
    A goat Skin, at	...	...	...	4d ob~
    A Goose, at	...	...	...	...	3d
    A Ducke, at	...	...	...	...	1d q/r
					The rest as before.
    Threashing a quarter of wheat	...	2d
    Threashing a quarter of beanes	...	1d ob~
    Threashing a quarter of Oates	...	1d
    Wages of a day laborer	...	...	ob~ q/r // laborer _sic_.
    A yeomans bord wages, per diem	...	1d ob~
    A groome or Pages boord wages per diem	1d // orig. p/~ di&e-bar;

// p. 163

    And by a proclamation in the viij th. of this kinge, none might sell
wine in theire Tavernes, above iij d. the gallon.
// Margin note: Claus: 8. E. 2. m: 2.

*In the* tyme of Kinge Edward the third, generally about theis rates as
followe, but the further in his longe raigne of fiftye yeares, the dearer.
As thus viz\t.
    Wheat the quarter	...	...	...	5s 4d---7s---10s
    Barly the quarter	...	...	...	4s---5s 4d
    Beanes the quarter	...	...	...	4s
    Otes the quarter	...	...	...	2s 8d---3s 4d
    Bay salt the quarter,	...	...	18d
    An Oxe from 14s. to	...	...	...	24s
    A Sowe and six pigs	...	...	...	5s
    A boare	...	...	...	...	4s
    A Calfe	...	...	...	...	2s
    A Store pigge or shote	...	...	12d
    Pigeons, the dozen	...	...	...	3d---3d ob~---4d
    An Haggard Falcon	...	...	...	20s
				In the residue little variation  | [f.195]

*And* in the tyme of Kinge Richard the second, for the two' and twenty yeares
of his raigne, the prizes of graine, Cattle and pultry, were rather cheaper
then dearer, but the difference in effect that was, was in
the temperature and season of the yeare.	// prizes, _sic_. for prices.

    A weight of wool (beinge . 21 pound) called pondus,	...	5s.
    A sacke of wool at	...	...	   7li. 6s. 8d.---8li.
    Onions, a Bushell	...	...	...	...	...	8d.
    Eggs . 20 for a peny, which in 150. yeares did never rise nor fall.

*And at* this day, wherein I write, Anno 1622, the Comon prizes of the like
Comodities in the same place, is generally thus. viz\t.
    Wheat the Quarter	...	...	...	36s
    Maslin the Quarter	...	...	...	26s 8d
    Barly the Quarter	...	...	...	20s
    Barly malt the Quarter	...	...	24s
    Beanes the Quarter	...	...	...	20s
    A draught Oxe, about	...	...	5l. // l. [sic] for li.
// page 164
    A Cowe and a calfe about	...	...	3li.10s.
    A Sheepe about	...	...	...	8s
    Eggs 5 for	...	...	...	...	1d

*And* theis prizes stand in resemblance of the like corne and Cattle in my
old former valuations; which as well for the instruction of him that delights
herein, As for avoydance of the like error this lord fell into, I have
clustered here togeather.

*As for* horses in those active old ages of the three Edwards, and of kinge
Richard the second, the lord Berkeleys have payde for horses of service in
the warrs, and for the saddle, and draught, as deere as nowe in our dayes;
100li., 100 markes, 50li., 30li., 20li., 10li. 20 nobles, 5li., &c.

// Margin note:
// Polichr: lib: 7
// cap: 38.
*But* of yeares of dearth and of extremities, when through scarcity prizes
were as deere as nowe, mentioned in divers Chronicles, I have not spoken; But
desire to bee vnderstoode of the comon and usuall prizes in each ordinary
and temperate yeare.

// Margin note:
// com&p-tilde;i predc&t-tilde;. in
// Castro de Berkeley.
*And* theis Accompts will further informe this noble family, That when this
lord was free from forren imployments, hee went often in progress from one of
his Manor and farme houses to an other, scarce two miles a sunder, making his
stay at each of then for one or twoe nights overseeing and directinge the
forementioned husbandries, And soe backe to | his standinge houses // [f.196]
where his wife and family remayned, which was very great, as after appeareth,
sometymes at Berkeley Castle, at Wotton, at Bradley, at Awre, at Portbury,
And vsually in Lent, at Wike by Arlingham, for his better and neerer
provision of Fish: where, for his famous
// Margin note:
// Com: 6. et 7. E:
// 2.inCastro do Berk:
weares of Rodly, Geron, and Put'house, he had a spetiall Officer called
Piscator de Berkeley, whose annuall Accompts, comonly came vnto 30li. per Ann~;
for fish there taken: Some of which doe speake, That of antient custome, the
Constable of Berkeley Castle was vpon the first sunday in Lent allowed a salmon
for his dinner, which in this Seaventh of Edward the second, cost---x d. ob~.

*

Monies, Weights and Measures, and Other Terms:
    Taken from Chambers' English Dictionary, except some marked [SOED] which
    are from the Shorter Oxford English Dictionar (2 Vols, Oxford).

    q/r = quadrans = farthing = quarter of a penny (0.25d)
    ob~ = obulus = halfpenny (0.5d)
    1d is a penny (denarius, plural is danarii)
    1s is a shilling (solidus, plural is solidii), worth 12d
    1li is a pound (librum, plural libra), woh 20 shillings, i.e. 240d.

    a noble was a gold coin worth 6s 8d. (80d, or 1/3 of a pound)
    a mark was the value of 8 ounces of gold or silver; 123 4d (!)

    a Quarter is eight bushels.
    a bushel is (a dry measure of) 8 gallons.
    A Quarter of corn may have weighed about a quarter of a ton at
    one time, I don't know if it still would!

    Fetch = Vetch, a grain [SOED]

    Maslin = Mixed Grain, esp. rye mixed with wheat.
    Also, bread made of the same. [SOED]

    Pilcorn = A kind of oat, in which the glumes or husks do not adhere to
    the grain, but leave it bare.  Also called pilled oats. [SOED]

    Porket = a small or young pig or hog; a young hog fattened for pork
    [SOED]

Orthography:
    \t. is a superscript t with a dot centred below it;
    ob~ shuld have the ~ through the ascender of the b, for obulus, halfpenny
    q/r should be a q with a subscript 3 at a slight angle, for
    quadrans, farthing.  (the "3"is actually a kind of terminal r)
    The signs for currency (li, s, d) are superscripted with a centred dot
    beneath them on the baseline.  Simarly the th in xix th.
    *Blackletter* is thus marked.
    A | indicates a new page in the original, together with the folio;
    I am using the 1883 (and only printed?) edition, and page numbers (marked
    with p.nnn rather than f.nnn) refer to that edition.
    An em dash is indicated as --- and is set (1883 edition) with no spaces
    on either side.
    Notes in [brackets] are as printed;
    // Notes like this are mine (i.e. Liam's)


:font BemboNarrow: -monotype-bembo-medium-r-normal--*-300-60-83-p-*-iso8859-1
:colours: #fffaf2, #93600d
:terminal: tx -geometry 41x21
:cd-music: BillyBragg002,TimBlake001,Eloy017,Faure001

-- 
Liam Quin, Manager of Contracting, SoftQuad Inc, +1 416 239 4801 lee at sq.com
[Thyrsis, village-shepherd] Flushed with wine in the noontide, under the pine
lies sleeping --/But lo, Love Himself has taken the crook, and shepherds them.
[Myrinus - Love the shepherd; trans. F. L. Lucas, Golden Cockerel Press, 1936]


Article 49247 of rec.org.sca:
From: vnend at nudity.uucp (David W. James)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: thought experiment
Date: 17 Oct 1993 22:40:24 -0400
Organization: Acta non Verba, Skillman, NJ

In article <DDF2-041093225410 at cu-dialup-0323.cit.cornell.edu> DDF2 at cornell.edu (David Friedman) writes:
)Incidentally, does anyone have period prices, in silver, for foodstuffs? It
)would be nice to know whether I am correct in believing that we are rich
)enough to get through the winter. 

	Not exactly...

	For example, a short entry in one of the portions of the Domesday
book that I have reads:

In Reigate Hundred
	REIGATE, in lordship.  Queen Edith held it.  Then it answered
	for 37 1/2 hides, now for 34 hides, for the King's work.  Land
	for ... In lordship 3 ploughs;
	67 villagers and 11 smallholders with 26 ploughs.
	2 mills at 12s, less 2d; meadow, 12 acres; woodland, 140 pigs from
	pasturage; from grazing, 43 pigs.
	Now it is assessed at 40 liber and pays as much.

Lots of that kind of thing...

The other economic references I have handy are all at least 300 years later,
when an entry in the rolls reads like:

John Aylred: 1/2 qr. wheat 2s., 1/2 qr. barley 20d., 1/2 qr. peas 15d., 
	2 pigs 4s.  Sum: 8s 11d...

There are also entries for prices paid at fairs, again, 300 years later,
but they tend to ignore food for the items brought in to be traded.
For example, I find that in 1243 20 tuns of wine went for 38 pounds,
8s 8d; in 1244 436 tuns 844 pounds, 14s at the Boston fair (a tun,
according to the footnote (original entry in 'dolia') was 252 gallons.)
In 1250 100 tuns went for 189 pounds 10s.

In 1244 5 horses went for 15 pounds, 6s 8d at Winchester, and in 1247 7 horses
at St Edmunds went for 20 pounds.

The purchases of the Durham Cathedral priory at Boston in 1299 includes:

11 ells cloth for tunics			1 10  8
100 ells canvas					2  1  3
24 furs lamb					3 12  0
400 hlf almonds					3  3  0
100 hlf plus 5 lbs rice				1  1  6
50 lbs ginger					3  6  8
26 lb rock sugar					2 12  0
25 lb morocco sugar				1  0 10
14 lb saffron (!!!!)				4 18  0

and then some grouped purchases, including:

4 lb galingale
4 lb cinnamon
15 lb pepper
all:							2  7  0

I'll leave it up to you to guess what, if any, relation there may have
been between prices in 1299 and those in 993; I *certainly* don't know...

Kwellend-Njal
-- 
vnend%nudity.UUCP at Princeton.EDU  or vnend at Princeton.EDU if that doesn't work.


From: jliedl at nickel.laurentian.ca
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Livres vs. Pounds in 1515
Date: 8 Nov 93 15:10:05 -0500
Organization: Laurentian University

Good day, good gentles of the Rialto, from Ancarett Nankivellis.

In article <UgqnFDa00YUnILFasF at andrew.cmu.edu>, David Schroeder <ds4p+ at andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> 
> I'm working on a class for the upcoming East Kingdom University where
> I plan to explain the mechanics and the business of printing to my
> "students" in the context of a presentation from a Master Printer
> seeking backers from the nobility and wealthy merchant families.
> 
> I have a few decent sources on French costs, but they're all given
> in French livres, rather than English pounds...  and they're not
> given with any sort of context, like the relative costs of labor,
> of food, housing, taxes, etc.  If anyone has any insight into
> pointers to books that might help me sort out these monetary
> matters I would greatly appreciate it.
> 
I can't give you equivalences, myself, but a pointer to a few sources 
on the subject.

First and foremost is _The Cambridge Economic History of Europe_ 
vol. 5.:  _The Economic Organization of Early Modern Europe_ 
(NY and Cambridge:  Cambridge Univ. Press, 1977).

For an old but good compilation of prices see Georg Wiebe's 
_Zur Geschichte der Preisrevolution des 16 und 17 Jahrhunderts_ 
(Leipzig: 1895):  he has an index of comparative prices.

I can't remember where it is offhand but someone in the last twenty 
years (a team of historians) compiled a "shopping basket" of goods 
and priced them for England throughout the EMod period.  It may 
be referenced in the CEconHist.

Sorry, I'm an intellectual historian, not an economic one.  Hope 
this helps, anyway!

Ancarett Nankivellis
Janice Liedl
Laurentian University, Canada
JLIEDL at NICKEL.LAURENTIAN.CA


From: Tim at f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Livres vs. Pounds in 1515
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 19:59:19

 Scripsit Bertram:

 DS> I have a few decent sources on French costs, but they're all given
 DS> in French livres, rather than English pounds...  and they're not
 DS> given with any sort of context, like the relative costs of labor,
 DS> of food, housing, taxes, etc.  If anyone has any insight into
 DS> pointers to books that might help me sort out these monetary
 DS> matters I would greatly appreciate it.

 I should suggest that your first stop probably ought to be the *Cambridge
 Economic History of Europe*, which, if it doesn't have rough equivalents
 (and rough equivalents is all you're going to find, I'm afraid, since a
 lot of things that were expensive for them are cheap for us and vice
 versa), will almost certainly have an excellent bibliography.

 Another place to try is the *Fontana Economic History of Europe (1972),
 which is about a decade more recent that the C.E.H. (but of course not as
 thorough).

 Books on numismatics (of which, alas, I know very little) would be a good
 place to look, as well, since most coins represented a certain value in
 the standard money of account.

    Tadhg, Hanaper
    ocitor!tim.4229 at rwsys.lonestar.org


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Question on prices of goods.
From: vnend at nudity.UUCP (David W. James)
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 94 08:30:43 -0500

In article <9407211258.AA07105 at roym.batdd1.pica.army.mil> mortonr at pica.ARmy.MIL writes:
>Greetings from Malcolm Douglas!

>	Does anyone out there know where I can get a list of common
>items and corresponding prices from around 1600?  I have latched onto
>a couple of castle inventories, but they date from the 1700's.  If
>anyone has any ideas, sources, or even a list, could you please contact
>me directly through email?  I've gotten a bit too busy here to keep
>up with everything on the Rialto (sigh).
>	Many thanks to all,
>			Malcolm Douglas

I've occationally posted prices paid for items at English fairs (which was
where a lot of the non-locally produced items a household might use were
purchased in the 13th and 14th centuries.  Unfortunately, in this case,
the data I have is from the middle ages, not the renaisance.

Check for the records of orders of monks, King's orders and such.  See if you
can find an itemized list for the cost of coronations, tourneys and such.
I don't know about household budgets, but perhaps one or two survived...

Kwellend-Njal


From: Lisa Steele (2/28/95)
To: Alfredo1 at aol.com
CC: markh at sphinx
French & Italian Money

  Below is a list of various prices which I started keeping track
of while reading various secondary sources. Unfortunately, when I
started I wasn't paying attention to place and date, but in general
the information is based on Med. France and Italy from 9-15C.

        Many different monetary systems were in use throughout the
Middle Ages. The most common used one livre (pound) = 20 sou
(shillings) = 240 derniers (silver pennies). The dernier--measuring
about 5/8" in diameter and containing 1/3 silver--was the largest
actual coin for much of the period; the other large units were used
for bookkeeping. Other coins included the obolus or halfpenny,
worth 2 per dernier, and the farthing, worth 4 per dernier. The
Byzantine money system used 1 gold bezant = 12 silver militarisia
= 24 silver keratia; the Muslim system used 1 denier = 10 dirhams
(drachmas).

        In 13-15th century Florence, there were two parallel money
systems. The gold system was based on the florin, which contained
3.536 grams of gold. The silver system was the familiar lire = 20
soldi = 240 denari or (piccioli). Later quattrini or coins composed
of four piccioli were added. Certain contracts, especially imports
and exports, were payable in gold; wages were generally payable in
silver. When the florin increased in value, real wages fell, even
though the number of coins paid stayed the same. In 1400, a florin
was worth about 75 soldi.
     When first issued in 1252, the florin weighted 72 grains and
was 24 carats fine. The weight of the florin was frequently debased
by foreign mints, forcing the government to periodically issue new
coins with higher weights and content.
     Gold florins were sometimes issued in small leather bags
sealed by the Mint. Strict penalties were assessed on anyone who
altered the contents of such bags.
        Venice used a similar system, otherwise it was unique in
Europe. The pound affiorino or a fiorini was a common money of
account, equal to 20/29ths of a florin. It was divided into 20
soldi or sous affiorino of 12 derniers affiorino apeace. The florin
was sometimes divided into 29 soldi affiorino or 348 dernier
affiorino for accounting. After the introduction of the florin
larghi (a new coin issued to redress the debasement of the florin)
in 1450, accounts were often kept with one florin divided into 20
soldi a oro and 240 derniers a oro.
        The supply of money (and therefore its value) varied widely
due to fairs, harvests, ship sailings, and the noble's
expenditures; in some places, pepper and saffron were both used
instead of coin.

Salary Info.
Actor                      17 d. per show
Barber (13C)               20 sol./yr.
Carder                     10 s. per load (salma) of wool carded
Civil servant, major       300 l. per year
Civil servant, minor       70 l. per year
Domestic servants          1 l. per year & board
Factor                     115 l. per year
Instructor, civil law      440 fl./yr (1451)
Instructor, rhet & poetry  350 fl./yr (1451)
Instructor, medicine       300 fl./yr (1451)
Instructor, phil. & morals 70 fl./yr (1451)
Instructor, logic          20 fl./yr (1451)

Keeper of the Chmpgn Fair  200 l. per year
Keeper of the Chmpgn Seals 100 l. per year
Laborer, semi-skilled      10 d. per day
Laborer, skilled           2 s. per day
Laborer, skilled master    1 l. per day (Florence)
Laborer, unskilled         20 sol. per day (Florence)
Laborer, unskilled         7 d. per day
Master mason               2 s. per day (c.1229)
Mason at site              1 s. per day (c.1229)
Mason at quarry            24-30 d. per week & board
Exceptional mercenary leader  30,000 l. per year
  (the leader used this to recruit a force)
Stonecutter                2 s. per day (c.1229)
University instructor      20 to 440 l. per year
Weaver (journeyman)        2 s. per day

Services:
Bake another's grain       2-4 d per loaf
Bleeding                   15 s
Bone setting               1 l
Carding                    10 soldi per load (salma) of wool
Changing currency          10% of amount charged
Copying                    4 s. per page
Laundress                  1 s. per load
Marine insurance           5% of amount to be insured
Painting (by Botticelli)   35 fl.
Physician consultation     10 l.
Tooth extraction           5 l.
Sculpture, Palazzo della   3,000 fl. (Michelangelo and Lenoardo da
Signoria, Florence                    Vinci

Real Estate:
Cottage, small             2 l/year rent (Florence)
Farm & vineyards           750 l
Farm (ave)                 380 l
Farm (poor)                160 l
House, large               20-50 l/year rent (Florence)
House, small               3 l/year
House & shop               36-42 l/year
House & vineyard           128 l, 11 s
Lime (used for mortar)     9 l, 8 s
  year's supply for church or
  castle maintenance
Shop                        42 fl./yr. (Florence)
Shop near Orsanmichele      118 fl./yr (Florence, 1427)
Shop on P. della Signoria   27 fl./yr (Florence)
Vineyard                    64 fl.

Goods:
Book of laws (14C)           40 fl.
Bounty, wolf in city (14C)   10 so.
Bounty, wolf in cntrysd(14C) 5 so.
Butter                       7 d/lb.
Capon                        6 d
Eggs (dz.)                   8 d
Eggs, roasted (10)           1 d
Eggs, tempering paint (13C)  30 d.
Finch, roasted (10)          1 d
Fine, insulting guesture     20 so. (14C)
Fine, insulting words        20 so. (14C)
Fine, push to ground         100 so.  "
Fine, threat w. knife        40 so.   "
Fine, throwing stones        3 lire   "
Fine, breaking tooth         10 lire  "
Fine, dung in mouth          25 lire  "
Fine, disturbing peace       1,000 lire  "
Fine, garbage in public      20 so.   "
Fine, offal in public        40 so.   "
Grain (3 bushels)            2 lire (Florence)
Meat pie w. roast capon      8 d
Meat pie w. roast hen        5 d
Mule                         10 fl.
Olive Oil                    18 d/jar
Pheasant, roasted            13 d
Saracen Ransom:
 Man                         2 s
 Woman                       5 s
 Child                       1-2 s
Wheat (staio or .7 bushel)   15 soldi (Florence)
Wheat (staio)                60 soldi (Florence, famine)
Wool (43 pounds)             2 l., 13 s.
Wool (204 bales)             600 florins (Florence)

    A major problem with price conversions is that many persons relied 
for their living on a combination of
in-kind and cash payments. For example, a Roman rent for a vineyard (1/2 
pezza) was 3.5 soldi per year, plus
4 bushels of onions, one-fourth of the new wine, half a canister of 
grapes, and food and drink for the
monastary's representatives when they came to collect the rent. With a 
series of such tenants, a monastary
might be able to provide for itself without having to purchase supplies 
for cash.
======================================================================


From: dani at telerama.lm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: medieval currency
Date: 22 Feb 1995 11:17:59 -0500
Organization: Telerama Public Access Internet, Pittsburgh, PA USA

Isabelle:
>Dani--I know that prices in Paris at that time were outrageous. Students 
>got ripped off big time, especially foreign students. I'm just going to 
>assume that four pounds Parisian was a good sum of money. 

[You may have noticed that I cancelled my earlier article, as it contained
a misleading arithmetic error.]  I agree that that's more useful than
trying to assign a specific modern dollar figure.  Just to provide a
couple more data points, Chretien de Troyes, at about that time, wrote
that 20 sous per week was not a living wage, but that 1500 sous per week
would be considered a fortune for a Duke.  (A denier was a nominally
silver 'penny' containing a sliver of silver.  Twelve deniers made a
sous and twenty sous made a livre, or [troy] 'pound'.  Not that you ever
saw a pound.)

Again, it's hard to convert meaningfully to modern currency:  If you
focus on the low end, it turns out that people lived on sums that
are so small, in terms of our economy, as to be meaningless.  At the
high end, figures are also misleading, in part because there was a
lot less money in circulation.

-- Dani


From: lsteele at mtholyoke.edu (Lisa Steele)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: medieval currency
Date: 23 Feb 1995 02:59:31 GMT
Organization: Mount Holyoke College

  I second Dani, one can translate the coinage into (1) the metalic 
content of the actual coins and figure out the modern value of the silver 
and gold; or (2) look at buying power. My rough rule of thumb is 1 pound 
or livre = a master's daily wage or about 20 days pay for a journeyman or 
more money than a peasant may see in a year. One gets into, of course, 
questions of currency devaluation, etc. E-mail me if you want some cost 
estimates.
  See generally Braudel, _Med. in Age of Philip II_ and Steele, _Med. 
France_ at 31.
  -- Esclarmonde de Colloure


From: james at nucleus.com (James Prescott)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: medieval currency
Date: 25 Feb 1995 23:55:36 GMT
Organization: Nucleus Information Service

MISS PATRICIA M HEFNER (HPGV80D at prodigy.COM) wrote:

: I'm looking at a copy of an assessment of houses in Paris that was done
: in 1282/83. One assessment is "4 pounds, 10 sous Parisian". I have
: another list of texts that were used at the University. These prices
: are given in denomnations of solidi, sous, or shillings (all noted with
: an s.), and d. for denarii or pence. Does anybody know how this would
: stack up against modern currency? I'd appreciate any information. Right
: now it looks a little confusing because I get confused with anything
: that has to do with numbers. Yours in Service, Isabelle

Never an easy determination, as will become apparent, but here
goes.

For reference, 1 pound had 20 sous, each sou had 12 denarii, for
a total of 240 pence to the pound.

In the late 1300's a Paris pound was 489.5 grams. Let us assume
that the weight was the same a century earlier. At that time in
most European cultures a pound of money was the same as a pound
weight of silver.

So, 4 pounds 10 sous of silver is 2203 grams. With a modern Troy
ounce at 31.1 grams, that is 71 modern ounces of silver. I don't
have a newspaper handy to look up today's silver prices, but just
for illustration assume $10 (US) an ounce.

So, the crude equivalent is $710, assuming pure silver. There are
further complications due to coining practices, but let's keep
this reasonably simple.

Second method.

It is common to use eggs for this method, but you could use almost
any other commodity you wish. The price of 30 eggs is roughly the
same as the price of one chicken, by the way. I think this is still
very approximately true today, is it not?

Anyway, in the late 1300's you could get one chicken or 30 eggs
in Paris for one Paris sou.

If we get our modern eggs at $1.25 (US) the dozen, then 4 pounds
10 sous would have the purchasing power of approximately $280 (US).

Third method.

We know that the wages of a skilled Venetian craftsman was about
40 ducats per year, which at about 9 sous per ducat, is about 18
Paris pounds per year, or four times the assessment.

Let's pay our "skilled Venetian craftsman" $2 (US) per hour (a
*most* arbitrary choice intended to enforce a somewhat medieval
standard of living). That would be approximately $3750 (US) per
year. That would make our 4 pounds 10 sous worth about $940 (US).

On the other hand, psychologically a skilled Venetian craftsman
was near the top of the non-noble heap, so $60000 (US) per year
might not be unreasonable. That makes our 4 pounds 10 sous worth
about $15000 (US) in psychological terms.

Fourth method.

As a rough rule of thumb, one hour of unskilled labour purchased
0.5 kilogram of grain. Using another rule of thumb, grain was one
sixth the price (per calorie) of eggs. This gives (via modern
cookbook and calculator) a price of one sou for about 9 kilograms
of grain. This gives unskilled wages of about one sou per 18 hours
of work. At 3000 hours per year (yikes -- that means 60 hour weeks)
the annual unskilled wage would be about 8 Paris pounds 5 sous per
year.

That is not out of line with the estimate for the "skilled Venetian
craftsman", and is subject to the same arbitrary conversion to
modern money.

But note that our 4 pounds 10 sous is about half the annual wage
for an unskilled craftsman.

Fifth method

There is a very crude, but fast, rule of thumb that says that a
silver penny can purchase dinner and a bed at a simple country
inn. So, 4 pounds 10 sous can purchase 1080 such nights of riotous
living. If we arbitrarily feed and house a family of five for four
pence a day, our amount could keep that family for 270 days. This 
is not out of line with the estimates from methods three and four.

So, we have five different, somewhat arbitrary methods for
"understanding" how much 4 pounds 10 sous is in modern terms.

As I indicated, not a simple computation. It all depends on whether
you want to convert precious metal prices, basic commodity prices,
basic wages, or "psychological impact".

All my best,
Thorvald Grimsson/James Prescott (james at nucleus.com)


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)
Subject: Re: medieval currency
Organization: The University of Chicago
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 16:04:10 GMT

" At that time in most European cultures a pound of money was the
same as a pound weight of silver."

(James Prescott "That time" seems to be late 13t c.)

Are you sure? This is four centuries or so after the Carolingian
monetary reform that set up the system. I don't know what the pound
of account was worth by then, but I would be surprised if it was
still close to a pound of silver. As I remember, Cipolla (_Money,
Prices and Civilization in the Mediterranean World_, or some title
close to that) says that, on average, medieval silver currency
inflated at about 100% a century.

"There is a very crude, but fast, rule of thumb that says that a
silver penny can purchase dinner and a bed at a simple country inn."

When?

David
(Cariadoc thinks a penny is what a Frank gets when he tries to make a
dirhem.)


From: lsteele at mtholyoke.edu (Lisa Steele)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: French & Italian Money
Date: 28 Feb 1995 22:30:56 GMT
Organization: Mount Holyoke College

  Below is a list of various prices which I started keeping track
of while reading various secondary sources. Unfortunately, when I
started I wasn't paying attention to place and date, but in general
the information is based on Med. France and Italy from 9-15C.

        Many different monetary systems were in use throughout the
Middle Ages. The most common used one livre (pound) = 20 sou
(shillings) = 240 derniers (silver pennies). The dernier--measuring
about 5/8" in diameter and containing 1/3 silver--was the largest
actual coin for much of the period; the other large units were used
for bookkeeping. Other coins included the obolus or halfpenny,
worth 2 per dernier, and the farthing, worth 4 per dernier. The
Byzantine money system used 1 gold bezant = 12 silver militarisia
= 24 silver keratia; the Muslim system used 1 denier = 10 dirhams
(drachmas).

        In 13-15th century Florence, there were two parallel money
systems. The gold system was based on the florin, which contained
3.536 grams of gold. The silver system was the familiar lire = 20
soldi = 240 denari or (piccioli). Later quattrini or coins composed
of four piccioli were added. Certain contracts, especially imports
and exports, were payable in gold; wages were generally payable in
silver. When the florin increased in value, real wages fell, even
though the number of coins paid stayed the same. In 1400, a florin
was worth about 75 soldi.
     When first issued in 1252, the florin weighted 72 grains and
was 24 carats fine. The weight of the florin was frequently debased
by foreign mints, forcing the government to periodically issue new
coins with higher weights and content.
     Gold florins were sometimes issued in small leather bags
sealed by the Mint. Strict penalties were assessed on anyone who
altered the contents of such bags.
        Venice used a similar system, otherwise it was unique in
Europe. The pound affiorino or a fiorini was a common money of
account, equal to 20/29ths of a florin. It was divided into 20
soldi or sous affiorino of 12 derniers affiorino apeace. The florin
was sometimes divided into 29 soldi affiorino or 348 dernier
affiorino for accounting. After the introduction of the florin
larghi (a new coin issued to redress the debasement of the florin)
in 1450, accounts were often kept with one florin divided into 20
soldi a oro and 240 derniers a oro.
        The supply of money (and therefore its value) varied widely
due to fairs, harvests, ship sailings, and the noble's
expenditures; in some places, pepper and saffron were both used
instead of coin.

Salary Info.
Actor                      17 d. per show
Barber (13C)               20 sol./yr.
Carder                     10 s. per load (salma) of wool carded
Civil servant, major       300 l. per year
Civil servant, minor       70 l. per year
Domestic servants          1 l. per year & board
Factor                     115 l. per year
Instructor, civil law      440 fl./yr (1451)
Instructor, rhet & poetry  350 fl./yr (1451)
Instructor, medicine       300 fl./yr (1451)
Instructor, phil. & morals 70 fl./yr (1451)
Instructor, logic          20 fl./yr (1451)

Keeper of the Chmpgn Fair  200 l. per year
Keeper of the Chmpgn Seals 100 l. per year
Laborer, semi-skilled      10 d. per day
Laborer, skilled           2 s. per day
Laborer, skilled master    1 l. per day (Florence)
Laborer, unskilled         20 sol. per day (Florence)
Laborer, unskilled         7 d. per day
Master mason               2 s. per day (c.1229)
Mason at site              1 s. per day (c.1229)
Mason at quarry            24-30 d. per week & board
Exceptional mercenary leader  30,000 l. per year
  (the leader used this to recruit a force)
Stonecutter                2 s. per day (c.1229)
University instructor      20 to 440 l. per year
Weaver (journeyman)        2 s. per day

Services:
Bake another's grain       2-4 d per loaf
Bleeding                   15 s
Bone setting               1 l
Carding                    10 soldi per load (salma) of wool
Changing currency          10% of amount charged
Copying                    4 s. per page
Laundress                  1 s. per load
Marine insurance           5% of amount to be insured
Painting (by Botticelli)   35 fl.
Physician consultation     10 l.
Tooth extraction           5 l.
Sculpture, Palazzo della   3,000 fl. (Michelangelo and Lenoardo da
Signoria, Florence                    Vinci

Real Estate:
Cottage, small             2 l/year rent (Florence)
Farm & vineyards           750 l
Farm (ave)                 380 l
Farm (poor)                160 l
House, large               20-50 l/year rent (Florence)
House, small               3 l/year
House & shop               36-42 l/year
House & vineyard           128 l, 11 s
Lime (used for mortar)     9 l, 8 s
  year's supply for church or
  castle maintenance
Shop                        42 fl./yr. (Florence)
Shop near Orsanmichele      118 fl./yr (Florence, 1427)
Shop on P. della Signoria   27 fl./yr (Florence)
Vineyard                    64 fl.

Goods:
Book of laws (14C)           40 fl.
Bounty, wolf in city (14C)   10 so.
Bounty, wolf in cntrysd(14C) 5 so.
Butter                       7 d/lb.
Capon                        6 d
Eggs (dz.)                   8 d
Eggs, roasted (10)           1 d
Eggs, tempering paint (13C)  30 d.
Finch, roasted (10)          1 d
Fine, insulting guesture     20 so. (14C)
Fine, insulting words        20 so. (14C)
Fine, push to ground         100 so.  "
Fine, threat w. knife        40 so.   "
Fine, throwing stones        3 lire   "
Fine, breaking tooth         10 lire  "
Fine, dung in mouth          25 lire  "
Fine, disturbing peace       1,000 lire  "
Fine, garbage in public      20 so.   "
Fine, offal in public        40 so.   "
Grain (3 bushels)            2 lire (Florence)
Meat pie w. roast capon      8 d
Meat pie w. roast hen        5 d
Mule                         10 fl.
Olive Oil                    18 d/jar
Pheasant, roasted            13 d
Saracen Ransom:
 Man                         2 s
 Woman                       5 s
 Child                       1-2 s
Wheat (staio or .7 bushel)   15 soldi (Florence)
Wheat (staio)                60 soldi (Florence, famine)
Wool (43 pounds)             2 l., 13 s.
Wool (204 bales)             600 florins (Florence)

    A major problem with price conversions is that many persons relied 
for their living on a combination of
in-kind and cash payments. For example, a Roman rent for a vineyard (1/2 
pezza) was 3.5 soldi per year, plus
4 bushels of onions, one-fourth of the new wine, half a canister of 
grapes, and food and drink for the
monastary's representatives when they came to collect the rent. With a 
series of such tenants, a monastary
might be able to provide for itself without having to purchase supplies 
for cash.

  For sources, see bibliographies to Steele, _Tapestry_; Steele, _Med. 
France_, and Steele, _Med Italy_ (forthcoming), all from White Rose Pub., 
Box 933, Amherst, MA 01004-0933.


From: dani at telerama.lm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: French & Italian Money
Date: 28 Feb 1995 19:26:52 -0500
Organization: Telerama Public Access Internet, Pittsburgh, PA USA

Lisa Steele <lsteele at mtholyoke.edu>:
>the information is based on Med. France and Italy from 9-15C.

A caveat:  This is something of which the poster was clearly aware,
but which seems worth stressing for people who use the information:
These are data-points, not averages or 'typicals'.  Over a period of
six-hundred years, there were tremendous fluctuations in prices,
wages (among things, this period spans the Black Death), and the
precious-metal-content of coins.

By way of analogy, someone might truthfully tell you that in the U.S.,
between the seventeenth and twentieth centuries, the dollar was 90%
silver and apples sold for five cents.

>Exceptional mercenary leader  30,000 l. per year
>  (the leader used this to recruit a force)

So 30,000 l. was the price (rent) of a small army.

-- Dani


Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:34:35 EDT
From: Elysant at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - prices in 1520

> What is being used is the Troy measurement system as adopted by the English
> for their currency, where the base of 1 Troy pound of silver equals 1 L
> sterling.  Troy measures were commonly used in currency and precious metal
> conversions across Europe and therefore make a common base for evaluating
> prices.  I suspect that the conversion from guilders and stuivers to Troy is
> because the silver penny and its equivalents were the most common measure of
> value in medieval Europe.

> To my knowledge, Troy measure was not used for measuring commodities (other
> than bread and precious metals) so the price per pound is likely based on
> the 16 ounce Avoirdupois pound.

This use of weights is also discussed in one of the medieval price list
articles I have.  It is a web page, so for those interested, here's the URL:

http://www.regia.org/costs.htm

On the first page the author states:
"...In its simplest form Early English money was divided into pounds,
shillings and pence.  Unfortunately the subdivisions were not the same as our
pre-decimal coinage.  The pound was the Troy pound (approx 11.5 modern ounces
or 373 g) divided into 240 pennies (making a Saxon penny about 1.55g).  To
make matters even more complicated, the shilling did not have a constant
value, varying from 4 - 6 pence, not on the more recent 12 pence".

The other list I have lists items from various times during the MA and is
compiled from several different book sources.

A few cooking related items from that list include:

Dried fruit (e.g.   raisins, dates,     1 - 4d/lb, up to 6d rare  ?14th c
              figs, prunes) almonds rice
Spices (cannamon, cloves, mace,             1 - 3s/lb             ?14th c
pepper, sugar etc.)
Saffron                                     12 - 15s/lb           ?14th c
Wine    Best Gascon in London               4d/gallon              1331
        Best Rhenish in London              8d/gallon              1331
Cow                                         6s                     1285 - 1290
Sheep                                       1s 5d                  mid 14th c
Pig     Somerset                            2s                     1338
        London                              3s                     1338
2 chickens                                  1d                     14th c
2 dozen eggs                                1d                     14th c
80 lb cheese                                3s 4d                  late 13 c
Salted herring (wholesale)                  5 - 10/1d              1382
Oats    London                              1s/quarter             1338

Also mentioned:
Cost of feeding a knight's or               L30 - 60               15th c
merchant's household per year               up to L100             15th c

Elysant


[submitted to the Florilegium by "Alderton, Philippa" <phlip at morganco.net>]
From: J.Spiritstone <spiritst at PRAIRIE.NODAK.EDU>
To: SCA-UNIVERSITAS at LIST.UVM.EDU <SCA-UNIVERSITAS at LIST.UVM.EDU>
Date: Monday, December 27, 1999 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: [SCA-U] Medieval vs modern economics

>This is from my Renaissance and Reformation class:
>Income and expenditures in the 16th Century
>
>        Lyon    Antwerp         US      UK      France  Italy
>        1550    1600            1950's-------------------->
>
>Food:   80%     79              22      31      38      46
>Shelter: 15%    11              10      14      8       6
>clothing: 5%    10              14      13      11      15
>
>totals: 100     100             46      58      57      67
>
>NO discretionary income         33 to 54% discretionary income
>
>Food was a status symbol, if you could hold feasts of great excess to show
>respect to people or for weddings you were doing good.
>
>Clothing was a status symbol, to distinguish yourself from the poor. "Long
>coats or jackets with fur collars, belts with silver or gold clasps.
>Clothing
>was so precious that it was left to offspring in official wills"
>Credit to Dr. Ineke Justitz, North Dakota State University.
>
>I know it's really late period, but it really gave me an idea about where money
>was going. Hope that helps!
>
>Samee'nah al-Zahra
>Korsvag, Northshield, Midrealm


Subject: Re: [SCA-U] Medieval vs modern economics was Re: [SCA-U] cotton
     undies?
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 10:54:35 -0800
From: Heather Rose Jones <hrjones at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU>
To: SCA-UNIVERSITAS at LIST.UVM.EDU

On Sat, 25 Dec 1999, sunshinegirl wrote:
> > From: Heather Rose Jones <hrjones at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU>
> snip
> The Welsh laws
> > also list common domestic animals -- their use, their valuation, and so
> > on.  They mention horses, cattle, sheep, goats, chickens, pigs, geese,
> > dogs, cats ...
> snip
>
> I would be interested in a comparative value on somethings.
> For example - what would a cow cost in the middle ages (take your pick as
> to time)  How many days labor would that be?  What would be the equivelent
> (days labor, etc) in modern terms?
> I read someplace that a nutmeg was worth its weight in gold.  What would be
> the modern $ of that?

Here's a brief summary of the value of domestic animals in medieval Welsh
law.  Note that the age of the animal affects its value.  Values are given
in "legal pence" -- i.e., using a standard reference amount, although
actual payment would most likely be in kind rather than coinage.

Horses

fetus - 14 days old = 4 p
15 days - 1 year = 24 p
2-3 year = 48 p
4 year until trained = 60 p
destrier = 240 p
palfrey = 120 p
sumpter = 120 p
draft horse = 60 p
untrained horse = 60 p

(there follows the value of various equine body-parts)

Cattle

Female

birth - Winter Kalends = 6 p
>from Winter Kalends, 2p more for each season until first pregnancy
at first pregnancy + 4p
while pregnant, 2p more for each season until calving
after calving 40p total
then until the 2nd calving, 2p more for each season
then through the 5th calf 60 p total
afterward, by appraisal

Male

(similarly to female, except the mile-stones are based on ploughing rather
than calving)

Pigs

birth until "it goes grubbing" = 1p
>from then until weaned (3 mo. old) = 2p
then until St. John's Day = 4p
St. John's Day until New Year = 15p
New Year until following St. John's Day, + 4p
afterward = 30 p total

Sheep and Goats

birth to Winter Kalends = 1p
Winter Kalends until 1 year old = 2p
after that = 4p
a ram = twice that (8p)_

Cats
birth until eyes are open = 1p
thence until it kills mice = 2p
after it kills mice = 4p

Poultry

goose = 1p
gander = 2p
brooding goose = 1/2 p for each chick
hen = 1p
cock = 2p
chick, until it can fly = 1 farthing
after than until sexual maturity = 1/2 p

Dogs

(Here we hit another facet of the Welsh legal system: value was affected
by social status as well as by inherent worth.)

The King's Dogs
Staghounds
- birth to opening eyes = 15 p
- thence until it leaves the kennel = 30 p
- one year old = 60 p
- an unskilled adult hound = 120 p
- a skilled adult hound = 240 p
Lapdog = 240 p

A Nobleman's Dogs
Staghounds -- half the value of a king's hound (at any given stage)
Greyhound -- ditto (although the value of a king's greyhound wasn't given)
Lapdog = 240 p

A Free Man's Dogs
Lapdog = 120 p

A Villein's Dogs
Lapdog (or any other type of dog) = 4 p

Misc. Dogs (owner unspecified)
Herding dog = the value of the most valuable beast it guards
Guard Dog = 24 p if on duty, if not there is no value

Falcons
the nest = 240 p
a "red" chick (before fledging?)
- king's = 120 p
- nobleman's = 60 p
a "white" bird (after fledging?)
- king's = 240 p
- nobleman's = 120 p
a tiercel (i.e. male falcon) = 24 p

Sparrowhawks
nest = 24 p
"red" chick = 12 p
"white" = 24 p

Any bird of prey belonging to a villein = 1 p

Bees
- an old colony = 24 p
- first swarm (of the year?) = 16 p
   - a swarm from that one = 12 p
- a "bull" swarm (meaning unclear) = 12 p
   - a swarm from that one = 8 p
- a swarm that occurs after August = 4 p
the values of swarms hold until Winter Kalends and after that they cound
as "old colonies" at 24 p, except for a post-August swarm which doesn't
attain full value until May Day.
- a queen bee = 24 p

Deer
- Winter Kalends to St. John's Day = 60 p
- St. John's Day to Winter Kalends (the hunting season) = 780 p [sic]

Misc. Wild Animals
- badger -- no value
- hare -- no value
- wolf and fox -- no value
- any wild animal kept as a pet
   - of the king or queen = 240 p
   - of a nobleman = 120 p
   - of a villein = 1 p
- beaver = 120 p
- marten = 24 p

It's hard to set up a comparison scale for these values based on, for
example, a day's skilled labor, because the value of labor depends on the
status of the person doing it.  For example, a value of a day's ploughing
in the spring is set at 1p.  One comparison scale might be found in the
nature and value of the "food render" -- i.e., the "tax" in kind paid
twice yearly by each manor in a lord's control.  The winter render due
>from a "free" manor consists of:

- a horse-load of the best flour
- a meat steer
- a vat of mead
- seven thraves (bundles) of oats for fodder
- a 3-y.o. pig
- a salted flitch of bacon three fingers thick
- a tub of butter three fist-breadths deep and three wide

and for this 240 p can be substituted, with the expectation that half will
go for bread, a quarter for drink, and a quarter for everything else.

One other thing to keep in mind about the legal values of things noted
above is that these amounts are set for compensation, not for purchase
(although presumably the two are related).  So these amounts are what you
would have to pay if you caused the destruction of an animal (or its
usefulness) rather than being what you would pay to buy one. A comparison
can be seen if you look up the individual legal values of the components
of the food render, to the extent that they can be found listed:

- a horse-load of the best flour = ?
- a meat steer = 60p
- a vat of mead = ?
- seven thraves of oats  at  4p/thrave = 28p
- a 3-y.o. pig = 30p
- a salted flitch of bacon = ?
- a tub of butter = ?

It isn't clear where the oats go in the accounting of the 240p money
equivalent, but the steer and pig alone add higher than the theoretical
60p "everything else" category.  So if the cash alternative for the food
render is intended as what it would cost to purchase the components, then
it's clear that the "legal value" of animals is set _higher_ than their
actual market value.

And furthermore, the law texts as we have them were compiled over a period
of several centuries.  It is unclear to what extent actual market
prices/costs remained stable over that period or to what extent the legal
valuations eventually became disconnected with reality.

Economics is _not_ one of my specialties.

Tangwystyl
*********************************************************
Heather Rose Jones         hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu
**********************************************************


Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 17:21:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Interesting medieval food article
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

-----Original Message-----
From: "Kai D. Kalix" <kdkalix at gmx.de>
>> Medieval food was bland.

> Yes, it was. At least for peasants, and for noblemen, too, I suppose, if
> there wasn't a feast going on. Spices were way expensive. OK, you can always
> season with herbs. But if salt is equal in price with gold, everyday-food
> will be bland (at least to modern palates).
-------------------------

Mustard.  Garlic.  Horseradish.  Verjus/vinegar.  And, as you mention, 
herbs.

I'm not an expert on the economics of salt, but take a look at the 
chart on this page:
http://www.economics.utoronto.ca/munro5/SPICES1.htm
In 15th century England, a pint of salt cost half a penny, at a time 
when a mason earned 6-8 pence per day.  For comparison, the same chart 
says that a gallon of milk or a pint of butter cost a penny, and a 
chicken cost five pence.  I think salt was well within the means of the 
working class.

I don't know what salt prices were like elsewhere.

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom


Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 19:59:15 -0400
From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] [jenne at fiedlerfamily.net: [SCA-Laurels] Commodity
	prices database]
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

The author of _Beer in the Middle Ages and Renaissance_, Richard Unger,
along with Robert Allen, has up this useful database of grain/commodity
prices 1260-1914; some of you may be interested in it:

http://www.history.ubc.ca/unger/htm_files/new_grain.htm

Also, if you are interested in the history of hopped beer production,
you want the book mentioned above.
-- 
-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net 


From: Marc Carlson <marccarlson20 at hotmail.com>
Date: November 25, 2005 10:34:31 AM CST
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
Subject: [Ansteorra] RE: Interesting site - Costs

> From: L T <ldeerslayer at yahoo.com>
> Costs in Medieval Times
>   http://members.tripod.com/Lord_Eadric/medieval.html
>   I can't garuntee how accurate this is...but it would be a  
> starting  place for those who wanted to
> get more indepth with their personas

And as that - a foundation to give a general ballpark idea of costs  
and such, it's probably not a bad thing.  And as a gaming source it's  
just fine (since that's what it was compiled for  :) )

There are some issues that make it problematic for anything more  
serious, even if all the details are accurate.  The most obvious of  
which that not everywhere in the Middle Ages uses English money  
(although there are a lot of similarities in coinage systems and  
relative worths).  Also, these are prices from a wide area of time,  
and with inflation, coin debasements, and so on, some prices may not  
be evenly comparable.

For an interesting comparison, in 1349/1350 in London, a regulation  
was passed regarding prices and wages, and detailing many of these.    
Found in 24 Edward III. AD. 1350, Letter-Book F. fol. clxxxi
"Regulations as to wages and prices in the City"; and translated and  
printed in Riley's Memorials (and reprinted at http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/histshoe/RileysMemorial/ 
Fclxxxi.htm)

It is believed that these regulations were passed to try to limit  
price gouging and inflation in the wake of the Plague and is itself  
indicative that the the prices were moving around.  It would be  
interesting to know what wages and prices were outside of London  
(since prices in London have traditionally been higher than elsewhere).

Marc/Diarmaid


Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 18:23:18 -0800
From: "Warrior Chef" <Warrior-Chef at earthlink.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Calculate present value of money from
	1257-present day
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

To help with calculating costs:
Calculate present value of money from 1257-present day

       This currency converter produces present-worth values for money
through history, using a wealth of different systems. It applies to the UK
and US, and depending on the method used, you can get price and value
comparisons all the way back to 1257.
       In 2004, $1.00 from 1900 is worth:
       $22.37 using the Consumer Price Index
       $19.02 using the GDP deflator
       $108.01 using the unskilled wage
       $149.07 using the GDP per capita
       $575.24 using the relative share of GDP

http://eh.net/hmit/


Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 16:27:24 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Spices for preservation of meats
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Spices were expensive, but were not beyond the reach of anyone who could
acquire a modicum of wealth.  As for the relative cost, who, when and where
must be considered in the equation.  A couple of papers on the subject of
spice prices can be found at:

http://www.economics.utoronto.ca/munro5/SPICES1.htm

http://www.econ.yale.edu/seminars/echist/eh05-06/Freeman's%20Paper.doc

The hunt was often reserved to the nobles, but not necessarily the meat.
For example, for centuries the German Jaegermeister's have had the privilege
to sell part of the meat taken in the hunt as part of their wages and were
to provide a portion of the hunt to orphans, widows and the needy.
Domesticated livestock are outside of the purview of the hunt and in many
jurisdictions birds and fish were taken commercially and sold in the
markets.

Bear

> Remember pepper alone was as
> expensive as the purchase of a slave or a sheep.  We find spices in
> nobles' household accounts but lower classes not only could not afford
> spices, they seldom had meat as hunting grounds were owned by the nobles
> and it was forbidden to hunt on them. Meat was for the nobleman it was
> thought that as he needed it for strength in wars riding his horse and
> wearing armor.
>
> Christy Campbell or Ysabelle wrote:
> Can anyone point me at information on the period uses of spices to
> preserve meat?


Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 23:21:54 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Spices for preservation of meats
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

The second URL comments on an apothecary in Barcelona (IIRC) selling pepper
for 5 sous per pound and that the price was fairly consistent with the price
earlier in the century.  If I'm correct about the coinage, that would have
been the equivalent of the English five silver pennies.  At about the same
time in England, a single sheep sold for about 48 to 50 pence with the
capacity to return that value in wool in one to four years depending on the
market.  Take the values quoted with a grain of salt, because I haven't been
able to verify them fully.

The first URL provides some 15th Century values with comparisons to modern
currencies.  At the beginning of the 16th Century, prices dropped by about
1/3, when the Portuguese cut out the Arab middlemen.

Bear


Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:25:05 -0500
From: "Lisa Sawyer" <ysabeau.lists at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Book Review - WAS: Bread Labor
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I've been meaning to post about this book I found that is really
fascinating. While this isn't exactly answering your question, it does
contain some interesting information about cooking.

http://www.amazon.com/Mistress-Maids-Men-Baronial-Thirteenth/dp/ 
1842124994/ref=sr_1_1/002-4721091-8879261? 
ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1193843098&sr=8-1

The book is based on the daily accounts of the Countess of Leicester (Simon
De Montfort's wife). There are comparisons to the daily accounts of other
notables in the 13th century to determine if her accounts are common or
uncommon.

The part that pertains to bread was very interesting to me. It goes into the
prices of wheat, how the wheat was obtained by a large household and from
whom. Apparently, they had figured out exactly how many loaves of bread
could be baked from a set amount of wheat. They didn't use bushels but I'll
use that as an example. The amount of loaves from a bushel was a standard
that was used almost universally. They had standards for other products as
well.

The accountant would record that he gave the cook so many bushels of wheat
on a particular day. The cook had to report back how many loaves of bread
s/he baked from the wheat. This implies that they ground the wheat in-house
and then baked the loaves. It doesn't say what the turnaround time was. If
there was a discrepancy between the amount of wheat given to the cook and
the loaves of bread returned, then they had to be accounted for (such as a
percentage of the wheat was moldy or something).

The book is fascinating with the little details. It isn't an overview...it
is a lot of little details. Sometimes, I wish it had more details but I
could see how that could bog things down considerably. It is a fairly easy
read as is. They give the prices for comparison purposes which is also
fascinating. The accounts also can give an indication of how the spices
where used...if you could see a specific page which the book unfortunately
does not do...At the top of the page it indicates how many people were in
the household on that particular day as well as all the pantry items
consumed. While you don't have a menu, you can sort of guess based on the
spices consumed how spiced the food actually was.

One of the interesting details was the fact that leather was purchased to
create something for the Countess that they think resembled chaps. It is
guessed that the leather garment was created to protect the Countess' legs
because she liked to ride astride instead of side saddle. The entry includes
the cost of the hide, how much the tailor was paid, etc.

One of the other interesting details fresh in my mind was that the Countess
borrowed a carriage from someone else for [a] trip. She paid the driver 5s each
way. According to the book, this was a high amount because the carriage
required five horses to pull it.

Anyway, I'm over 3/4 through on my first reading and I'm fascinated by the
little details. None of the items are terribly new or shocking for most of
us, but they are interesting when put into perspective as they are in this
book. The one thing I need for the next pass is a clear understanding of the
monetary system...I understand the references to pounds, d, and s enough to
get a comparative idea but I would like to know how many s go into a d, how
many d go into a pound, etc.

Ysabeau of Prague
Barony of Bryn Gwlad
Ansteorra


Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 01:00:06 -0500
From: " Gueni?vre de Monmarch? " <guenievre at erminespot.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT- 15th century economic and prices
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I'm not sure this has *direct* relevance to his question, but it's still
interesting - it's a comparison of various commodities with the wages  
of 2 skilled craftsmen.

http://www.economics.utoronto.ca/munro5/SPICES1

Guenievre


Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:23:42 EST
From: Stanza693 at wmconnect.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT -- 15th century economic and prices
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Cc: tandrad at emory.edu

In a message dated 12/12/2007 10:55:19 PM Mountain Standard Time, Stefan li
Rous passed on the following inquiry:

> Please remember that his not on this list so CC any replies to him at
> tandrad at emory.edu  as well.
>
> Thanks,
>    Stefan
>
> =====
> From:       tandrad at emory.edu
> Subject:     Medieval Economies -- Query from a Historian
> Date:     December 11, 2007 10:26:33 AM CST
> To:       stefan at florilegium.org
>
> Dear Mr. Harris,
>
> In doing some research on the medieval conquest of the Canary Islands
> of 1402, I came across your wonderful website. I have had considerable
> difficulty trying to imagine what 7000 French livres must have been
> worth in the early fifteenth century and found extremely little in the
> scholarly literature. Your site seemed to me to be one of the few
> places where people were thinking about what the medieval economy
> _felt_ like, or how it might have been experienced.
>
> (The reason I'm interested in the sum of 7000 livres is because that's
> how much the French Norman Knight Jean de Bethencourt had available
> (by selling his feudal domaines and a pirated ship) to fund his
> conquest of the Canaries. It must have been a very large sum, but it
> wasn't enough to finish the job, and he had to ask for help from the
> King of Spain, which is why the Canaries became Spanish and why so
> much of the New World is Spanish-speaking.)
>
> Do you have any advice about how one might gain this kind of
> understanding? Any articles or publications that might shed light on
> this issue would be most appreciated.
>
> Thank you!
>
> Tonio
> Tonio Andrade
> Assistant Professor of History
> Emory University

First, the Obligatory food comment:

In 1402,
a ca'ntara of red wine cost 23 maravedi'es
a ca'ntara of white wine cost 40 mrs.
a rabbit cost 3 mrs.
(p. 141, MacKay)

Now, to answer the question at hand, bearing in mind that I know little about
the Canaries and French currency.  I would be trying to build an equivalency to something I have researched and are fairly documentable, which would be
the coins of Spain.

I would suggest that one course of action to follow would be:

1.  Discover the "value" of livre in silver weight.
      The website, www.bookrags.com/livre, suggests that around the mid-1300s
the livre was devalued from 1 pound of silver to somewhat less than 1/20th of a pound silver.  It also suggests that around that time, the livre was also
called a franc.  Being an internet source, take that with a grain of  
salt.

2.  Find a Spanish coin equivalent.
      There is an excellent source for 15th century Spanish economics  
called __Money, Prices, and Politics in 15th
century Castile__ by Angus MacKay.  It was published by the Royal Historical
Society in London in 1981.  There are a number of charts and helpful resources in it including a thorough bibliography.  Some of the sources are French so
they might point to other useful sources that more directly answer the
professor's question.  If a direct Castillian equivalent isn't found, MacKay also discusses Aragonese florins and Genoese lire briefly.

      There is also LIBRO which has several books on Spanish economy published
online.  It is found at:
libro.uca.edu     If he does a google search on maravedi real and limits the
search to the libro.uca.edu domain, it should pull up the relevant pages.

3.  Examine the value of objects in light of the equivalency found in #2.
To give you some idea, based on MacKay's book, in 1462, a mark of silver was
valued at 1152 maravedi'es. A maravedi' is worth 1/16th of a real.  That means, if my math is correct, that a  mark of silver is worth 72 reales.  To give
you another example, the lawyer for the Burgos Cathedral earned an annual salary of 1500 maravedi'es or just over 1 mark of silver.  (In "my time", Ferdinand and Isabella set it at 34 mrs to 1 real.)

Another course of action would be to look for minting records of France.  The
economic information in MacKay's book
is based on an equation he built relating the Price of a mark of silver to
the number, value, and and the purity of the coins minted from that mark of silver.

I hope that gives the professor some ideas from which to proceed.   
--
Constanza Marina de Huelva
1490's Castillian persona


Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:14:01 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT- 15th century economic and prices
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Cc: Tonio Andrade <tandrad at emory.edu>

In 1402, there were two different currency livres in use in France, the
"livre tournois" and the "livre parisis."  Both livres consisted of 20 sous,
with the "sou tournois" having 12 deniers and the "sou parisis" having 15
deniers.  The 'livre tournois" was the preferred monetary pound.  The
currency changed value based on a complex formula using the "mark of
Troyes," 4608 grains of pure silver, as the mint weight which was not
debased.  As a mark is 1/2 pound by definition, a livre of silver by weight
would be 9216 grains or, given the French grain of 53.115 milligrams, 489.5
grams of pure silver.  489.5 grams is equivalent to the "Livre de Paris" or
the "livre poids de marc" that became the standard measure of weight in
France in 1350.

Kibler, William Westcott, Medieval France: an Encyclopedia

Rowlett, Russ, A Dictionary of Units of Measure
http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/

Between 1400 and 1450, a "mark of Troyes" was equivalent to 8 "livres
tournois" thus the livre was equal to 30.6 grams of pure silver.

Mulhall, Michael George, The Dictionary of Statistics

Assuming the livres that Jean de Bethancourt had were currency rather than
silver ingots, he had the equivalent of 214.2 kilograms of silver or a
little over 573 troy pounds which, at today's value of $14 per troy ounce,
is a little more than $96,000.  I'm not sure what the inflation rate is for
six centuries, but I would hazard a rough guess that Ol' Jean had himself
around half a million dollars in purchasing power.  You might check with
John Munro at the University of Toronto for a better guess as to the
purchasing power.

Terry Decker (Bear)


Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 22:04:13 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT- 15th century economic and prices
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Cc: Tonio Andrade <tandrad at emory.edu>

My half million dollar estimate of Jean de Bethancourt's fortune is  
well off the mark, if this website is accurate:

http://www.maisonstclaire.org/resources/pricelist/pricelist.html

They place the value of the livre in the mid- to late-14th Century as $1,000
US dollars.  According to Mulhall's Dictionary of Statistics, it was 6
livres to the mark de Troyes in this period.  At 8 livres to the mark in the
early 15th Century, the value of the livre should have been $750.  Thus
7,000 livres would be roughly equivalent to $5,250,000.

Bear


Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 12:03:17 +1000
From: Ian Whitchurch <ian.whitchurch at gmail.com>
Subject: [Lochac] History of Prices
To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"
	<lochac at lochac.sca.org>

I talked to a couple of people about this at Festival.

Here's the master file from the International Institute of Social History.
http://www.iisg.nl/hpw/data.php

Anton de Stoc
At Rowanie
VIIII April, b+l


Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 01:02:05 -0700
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] A horse for a peppercorn-Explanation of a Food
	Myth

A recent post on the kingdom email list pointed at the web page of 
Mistress Geraldine, a very long term West Kingdomer with extensive 
interest and knowledge of cooking--she's published cookbooks--but 
very little interest in period recipes. The SCA page of her site 
contains the following assertion about the recipes on her site:

"Some are of great and boring authenticity; others are designed to be 
delicious while producing the appropriate allusion."

As best I can tell, her extensive recipe collection contains only two 
recipes that claim to be period, one of which clearly isn't and one 
of which might be.

Her site also contains the following claim with regard to 16th c. England:

"How expensive were spices?  You could buy a horse for one pepper corn."

It struck me as wildly implausible, so I did a little quick research. 
C.Anne Wilson has two references to pepper prices in the 15th 
century, both about two shillings a pound; a webbed collection of 
price information has prices from one to four shillings a pound for 
the 13th c. It also has horse prices, of which the lowest is 20 
shillings (also 13th c.)

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/medievalprices.html

I weighed 1/10 of an ounce of peppercorns, then counted--about 
seventy. It follows that a pound would have over ten thousand. So 
unless horses got drastically cheaper between the 13th and 16th 
centuries or pepper drastically more expensive between the 15th and 
sixteenth, Geraldine's assertion is off by four or five orders of 
magnitude.

But where did it come from? Poking around the web, I think I found 
the answer, which is the real point of this post.

In Anglo-American contract law, a valid contract requires 
consideration--if I buy a horse from you but don't give you anything 
at all in exchange, there is no contract and I don't get the horse. 
But the validity of the contract does not depend on the adequacy of 
the consideration--any amount, however small, will do. This point is 
sometimes put in the form of "even a peppercorn is sufficient." The 
term "peppercorn rent" is similarly used for a nominal rent-a small 
sum used to make a real estate transaction that's in reality gratis 
take the form of a binding contract. Similarly "peppercorn payment."

My guess is that someone came across an explanation of the legal 
principle in some form such as "purchase of a horse for a single 
peppercorn is a valid transaction," and assumed that it meant that 
that was the price a horse could actually be bought for.
-- 
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com


Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 08:30:28 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A horse for a peppercorn-Explanation of a
	Food Myth

OED includes these meanings
noun

b. Stipulated as the amount required in payment of a nominal rent or a  
quit-rent. Also (occas.): a property carrying a rent of this kind.
  Still common in legal use, in the drawing up of leases.

[1470 in J. Fullarton Rec. Burgh Prestwick (1834) 9 For the quhilk he  
acht erli..gef it be askit thre pepir cornis in annuele.]
  1607 S. HIERON Serm. 2 Tim. iv. 7 in Wks. I. 221 Some great man,  
out of his bounty, giueth thee an inheritance of some pounds by the  
yeare; thou must pay a pepper corne for thy rent. 1669 in Rec. Early  
Hist. Boston (1881) VII. 50 He payeinge a pepper corne to the said  
Treasurer upon demand for ever on the said 29th September.

c. fig. A thing of very small value or importance; a token, a trifling  
amount.

1638 J. CLARKE Phraseologia Puerilis 333 This peppercorn of  
acknowledgement.

B. adj.

    1. Of the size or value of a peppercorn; very small,  
insignificant, trifling.

1791 J. WOLCOT Remonstrance 7 Not pepper-corn acknowledgment I owe 'em.

It still turns up in British common usage.
C2. peppercorn rent n. a rent of a peppercorn, a nominal rent (see  
sense A. 1b); also fig.

1844 Tait's Mag. Dec. 755/2 Church roofs new slated, at the cost and  
charge of the people who do not go to church:and they call that paying  
a *peppercorn rent to God.
  1910 Encycl. Brit. I. 107/1 Burlington House..was granted to the  
Academy for 999 years at a peppercorn rent.
  2003 Evening News (Edinburgh) (Nexis) 19 May 17 The  
centre..currently pays the council a peppercorn rent to use the former  
high school.

It's also explained as
peppercorn rent   A nominal rent. In theory one peppercorn (or some  
other nominal sum) is payable as a rent to indicate that a property is  
leasehold and not freehold, the peppercorn representing the  
consideration. In practice it amounts to a rent-free lease.

"peppercorn rent"  A Dictionary of Business and Management. Ed.  
Jonathan Law. Oxford University Press, 2009.

I would say you hit the nail on the head.

Johnnae


Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 07:02:44 -0700
From: "Daniel Myers" <dmyers at medievalcookery.com>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A horse for a peppercorn-Explanation of a
	Food Myth

To add just another confirming data point, Prof. John H. Munro has
prices for various commodities on his site:
http://www.economics.utoronto.ca/munro5/SPICES1.htm 

pepper 
18d/lb. (London, 1438)
20d/lb. (Antwerp, 1438)
12d/lb. (Oxford, 1438)

He also gives the daily wage of an unskilled laborer at the time as
being 8d.  That would mean the average Joe back then could afford an
awful lot of horses.

- Doc

-------- Original Message --------
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
<<< Her site also contains the following claim with regard to 16th c. England:

"How expensive were spices?  You could buy a horse for one pepper corn."

I weighed 1/10 of an ounce of peppercorns, then counted--about 
seventy. It follows that a pound would have over ten thousand. So 
unless horses got drastically cheaper between the 13th and 16th 
centuries or pepper drastically more expensive between the 15th and 
sixteenth, Geraldine's assertion is off by four or five orders of 
magnitude. >>>


Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 23:30:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: wheezul at canby.com
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] A 16th century French resource to share

I won't bore you with my short attention span theater story of how I went
from Norman England to this post, but I just found this article that is a
transcription of the expenses of the Baroness of Mauny in December 1552. 
In this case it does outline food purchases with a fair amount of detail
along with other household expenses, including those for feeding the pack
of small dogs she must have kept and the cover for her parrot cage.  From
the amount of food it seems a sizable household with dozens of loaves of
bread purchased daily.

This is found in Me'langes, 4e se'rie and is on books.google.fr here:

http://books.google.fr/books?id=ngNPAQAAIAAJ&dq=m%C3%A9langes%204%20s%C3%A9rie%20baronne%20de%20mauny&hl=fr&pg=PA111#v=onepage&q&f=false

The article starts on page 111 and goes to page 184.  The journal
transcription starts on page 121.  I was hoping someone might find it
useful for their research.

Katherine
who wants to know if anyone else is working on 11th-12th century European
foods?

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	p-prices-msg	Page 36 of 36