merchanting-msg - 12/1/18
Merchanting in the SCA. Why various SCA merchants merchant. How to get started. Suggestions on merchanting.
NOTE: See also the files: taverns-msg, tokens-msg, demos-msg, fundraising-msg, largess-ideas-msg, hotel-events-msg, SCA-Demos-art, merch-cloth-lst, Med-Merchants-CA, coins-msg.
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From: meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org (meg)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Would it be okay to...
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 94 22:05:25 EDT
Organization: Stonemarche Network Co-op
zkessin at world.std.com (Zach) writes:
> dmeehan at HUEY.CSUN.EDU (Dan Meehan) writes:
>
> >Merchants will hire bards to singingly entice patrons to their booths
> >(Hmmm - not a bad idea, if the price is right. I'll have to advertise
> >my availability!)
> I would guess that this is very period. Modern Shops will have a radio
> on a lot of the time, why not have merchents hire a few bards to sit
> in a both and sing or play the harp (Esp If you are selling Harps and
> such) or Hire a herald to go out and advertise your stuff.
>
> Guiliam of Carolingia
> zkessin at cs.brandeis.edu
Megan here...
I usually hire musicians to play outside my shop at Pennsic. They get
paid a cold beverage and some couple of dollars in their hat, to
encourage listeners to contribute as well. It works well for me...as the
audience stands appreciating the music, they gaze upon my wares, and are
inspired to make purchases. We have a nice shade tree, and a bench, and a
flower garden..a most agreeable site.
Megan
==
In 1994: Linda Anfuso non moritur cujus fama vivat
In the Current Middle Ages: Megan ni Laine de Belle Rive
In the SCA, Inc: sustaining member # 33644
YYY YYY
meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org | YYYYY |
|____n____|
From: UDSD073 at DSIBM.OKLADOT.STATE.OK.US (Mike Andrews)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Merchanting in the SCA...
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 10:25
Organization: The University of Oklahoma (USA)
Bruce.Tomlin at f555.n387.z1.fidonet.org (Bruce Tomlin) writes:
>Or if you're selling expensive stuff, in which case you might want to include
>the tax in the price so that you don't have to waste time computing it.
Bad Idea in Oklahoma: state law explicitly prohibits this.
You _can_ post the before-tax price, tax (make sure you
include any county and/or city sales taxes, as well as the
state sales tax), and the total.
--
Michael Fenwick of Fotheringhay, O.L. (Mike Andrews) Namron, Ansteorra
From: Bruce.Tomlin at f555.n387.z1.fidonet.org (Bruce Tomlin)
Date: 14 Oct 94 10:04:00 -0500
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Merchanting in the SCA...
Organization: Fidonet: Bjornsborg, Ansteorra [210-646-6677 HST/V32T/VFC/V34]
> From: kate at ds9.lesn.lehigh.edu (Kate Jones)
> I have a question: what is necessary for
> one to become a merchant at an SCA event?
Stuff to sell, and preferably a table to put it on and a blanket to cover it
with when you are away for court or feast or the privy or whatever (be sure
to put any EXPENSIVE stuff locked away in your vehicle or something if you
can't watch it). And a pile of dollar bills for change.
Just ask at the troll on the way in where they are putting the merchants, so
as to keep them all in one place where you don't have to worry about being
overlooked.
Most events will not charge you for merchanting, but the largest ones might
charge a merchanting fee.
> Would I need (I imagine) to
> somehow get set up with a tax number and all that happiness?
Well, since in a way it's just a garage sale (which is where much merchanting
stuff probably comes from in the first place), I wouldn't bother unless it
was a BIG event (I don't mean Crown Tourney, I mean like Pennsic) where they
require you to have it.
Or if you're selling expensive stuff, in which case you might want to include
the tax in the price so that you don't have to waste time computing it.
Also, you need it if you are (gasp!) taking plastic.
this is from observation.
Elwyn
---------
Fidonet: Bruce Tomlin 1:387/555
Internet: Bruce.Tomlin at f555.n387.z1.fidonet.org
From: Charly.The.Bastard at f1077.n147.z1.fidonet.org (Charly The Bastard)
Date: 15 Oct 94 17:23:00 -0500
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Merchanting in the SCA...
Organization: Fidonet: In the distance...Vanishing Point
Yep, first you're gonna need a tax number from your home state and an account
from every state that you plan to merchant in for sales taxes. next, you're
gonna need stuff to sell at the events. third, you're gonna need a sense of
humor, a LARGE one, for when the total newbie comes over to your shop with a
competitor's catalog and boldly whines 'I sure like this five foot
flame-bladed greatsword, but $300 is too high. Can you make me one for about
$50?' (true story, swear to Bhob) Of course, a large reliable truck to carry
the three tons of gear is also a plus, but not required.
---------
Fidonet: Charly The Bastard 1:147/1077
Internet: Charly.The.Bastard at f1077.n147.z1.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: rzex60 at email.sps.mot.com (Jay Brandt)
Subject: Re: Merchanting in the SCA...
Organization: The Polyhedron Group
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 20:41:32 GMT
kate at ds9.lesn.lehigh.edu (Kate Jones) wrote:
>
> Unto the good gentles of the Rialto, my greetings.
>
> I've been reading the Rialto for quite a while now, and have just recently
> gotten up the motivation to post. I have a question: what is necessary for
> one to become a merchant at an SCA event? Would I need (I imagine) to
> somehow get set up with a tax number and all that happiness? I know how to
> arrange things at an event and all that, I just need to know what red-tape
> hoops I have to jump through.
>
> Posts to the group or direct replies are welcome. Thank you all!
Well, let's see...
I was a founding member of the An Tir Merchants Guild, and I've been a
merchant at more events than I care to count over a number of years, in
three different Kingdoms (An Tir, West, and Ansteorra), selling the
furniture that I design and make. I have also recently been through several
seminars for small businesses held by the Texas Comptroller's office, which
in my state handles matters like sales tax collection. While in the
seminars I made a point of asking questions pertaining to doing business as
an SCA merchant. So I guess I'm as qualified as anyone else to reply.
First, I'll have to disagree with the good gentle who equated SCA
Merchanting to a garage sale, and that as such you'd be immune from sales
tax laws. Even a garage sale has limits placed upon it in many
jurisdictions. For example, in some cities or counties a family can only
have one or two garage sales a year. (I lived in one town where 'one garage
sale per year at most' was the law!) Garage sales are, by their nature, a
very occasional thing, not done in a manner that establishes a regular
business practice. By definition, I would hope that a successful SCA
merchant would be just the opposite, trying quite hard to establish
identity and credibility as a good person/shop to do business with. As an
SCA Merchant, I'd not want to try to argue that I was exempt from taxation
if some mundane official started asking around for permits.
Here's my advice and experience in the matter:
I strongly believe that you should obey all appropriate mundane laws
regarding retail sales. If your county/state/country requires a business
license or sales tax permit, you should obtain one and complete the
obligatory reporting and paperwork as required. Same goes for permits for
sale or handling of food and/or liquor. If you are selling stuff at an SCA
event, you can be -very- visible, and any SCA merchant is still bound by
whatever mundane laws are in force in the jurisdiction they will be selling
at. If -you- are violating local laws, and you get caught, it can look very
bad for the other members of the SCA in your area.
It is important also to note that the laws regarding the site of sale are
just as important as the laws regarding your base of operations. For
example, if a person in Oregon, which has no sales tax, sells merchandise
in California, which has one, they -should- collect and report California
sales tax for merchandise sold at that event, or for sales resulting from
that 'point of retail presence'. Different cities and counties may have
different sales tax rates. Technically, the sales tax rate in effect at the
place where they contacted you is the one to use for a given sale, even if
the sale is delayed, unless they place or receive the order at yet another
'point of retail presence'. Sound confusing? It -is-. Still, an effort
should be made to understand and obey the laws regarding retail sales.
Here are some examples: I live in Austin, TX. If I set up shop at an event
inthe nearby town of Round Rock, sales at that event are done at that
city's tax rate. If someone calls me after the event, and says they saw a
chest that I had at the Round Rock event, and they want to order one just
like it, to be shipped to them in Dallas, they pay the Round Rock rate.
But if they place that same order, and take delivery in Dallas at an event
where I've set up shop, they pay the Dallas tax rate. And if they contact
me in Austin based on an ad or word-of mouth, and they don't mention a
specific event site, and it is to be shipped to a town where I have -not-
set up shop as a merchant, they pay the Austin tax rate. That series of
cases is probably the worst it gets, but they give you an idea of the
complexity that can be involved.
There are, incidentally, advantages to following the business licensing and
sales tax rules. Anything you purchase -for resale- is exempt from sales
tax when you buy it, provided you are a licensed business. (Though this
does not apply to items kept for your own use, including 'demonstration
models' and 'store display items'). For a merchant/craftsman, you buy raw
materials tax-free and charge sales tax on the finished item's price. For a
merchant/reseller, you buy the finished items tax free, and charge tax on
your resale price.
In most jurisdictions that I am aware of, it is -not- legal to roll the tax
into the price of the item. It must be clearly stated and accounted for
seperately. There is, however, usually no restriction on your making the
price such that when tax is added, it comes out to a convenient round
number. :-) If you allow haggling, and sales tax has to be collected, I'll
advise keeping a good calculator hidden away for calculating the actual
price and tax.
If you take non-cash items in trade or barter, you should define a
realistic fair-market value for the bartered items, and record that as
price or payment. Myself, I'd give a receipt for that fair market value,
and keep a copy with my sales records. It's a royal pain, but less of one
that an auditor could be if anyone ever goes over your books.
That being said, the rest depends a lot on the autocrats of the event you
want to sell at. They should be treated as your hosts, and given the
appropriate courtesy and respect. Some don't care what you do or where you
set up, so long as you don't make a nuisance of yourself. Others may
require a merchant pre-registration, with assigned space on a 'merchants
row' allocated to each merchant. Some events require a 'merchant fee' in
addition to your site fee, or may require/request a percentage of profits
from the sales at that event. I have even seen some events where, before
you could merchant, the wares you would sell, the garb you will wear, and
even the particulars of your pavilion or sales booth must be pre-approved
by a council, for authenticity, quality and other criteria. The range,
unfortunately, is infinite in its possibilities. I have run into all of the
above, just in An Tir! The only way to be -certain- of the conditions is to
check with the autocrats of the event, preferably -well- in advance. They
may even have a specific autocrat in charge of merchant activities. If
there is, check with them and leave the regular autocrat alone.
I hope that this does -not- scare you off from the idea of being an SCA
merchant. Being a merchant is a -very- period activity. When done well, a
merchant's booth or pavilion can add to the ambiance of an event, as well
as providing valuable wares or services. True, most merchants would not be
of noble birth, but there were exceptions to that. If you have a skill or
product that is appropriate to period and others could use, go ahead and
try merchanting.
I have found it to be a rewarding method of practicing a craft. I get to
travel widely, with the profits of my business paying for my Lady's and my
event fees and travel expenses, as well as an occasional new tool or two
for my shop. I get to talk with a -lot- of people about my craft, and get
to demonstrate many aspects of it for whomever drops by my shop at an event
(I often set up a functioning workshop in my booth). And I get the
satisfaction of knowing that my wares are in use all over the knowne world,
making other's experience in the SCA a bit better for the presence of a
fine chest, or a welcome bench, or even of a set of thrones for their
nobility.
Welcome to the Merchant Class. May you find it as rewarding as I have!
> --
> Kate Jones | Rhian the Subtle | [ Insert ]
> kate at ds9.lesn.lehigh.edu | House Cyclonus | [ Humorous Quote ]
> kmj1 at lehigh.edu | East Kingdom | [ Here ]
--
Regards, Jay Brandt --- Austin, Texas, USA ---
Motorola, SPS Sector, Advanced Products Research and Development Labs
In the SCA, HLS Jason of Rosaria, JdL, GdS, AoA --------- (Member # 3016)
Owner / Designer / Craftsman ------------------------- Bear Paw Woodworks
From: folo at prairienet.org (F.L. Watkins)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Merchanting in the SCA...
Date: 18 Oct 1994 03:35:53 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
If you're thinking of merchanting--regularly--in the SCA, keep
these hints in mind:
Make certain you have a steady supply and a certain supplier
Make certain that you are making money (not as simple as it
might seem)
Provide a worthwhile service/merchandise (my prime beef:
shops that look like garage sales, with skiffy
books, non-medieval stuff and junk jewelry; YMMV)
Make certain you have a nice display
Be prepared to do a lot of hard work, and do it because you
love the hobby and want to contribute (there are
easier ways to make a buck, honest)
Work within the legitimate system. Check the laws for doing
business within your locality, pay your taxes and
be honest.
For the record, I have been merchanting (mainly publishing) in the
SCA and other living-history groups for quite some time now.
Yrs, Folo
--
Damin de Folo - F.L.Watkins - folo at prairienet.org
Baron Wurm Wald (MidRealm) - Commander Baldwin's (NWTA)
From: Suze.Hammond at f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Suze Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Merchanting in the SCA...
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 14:21:00 -0800
CTB> From: Charly.The.Bastard at f1077.n147.z1.fidonet.org (Charly The
CTB> Bastard) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
CTB> Yep, first you're gonna need a tax number from your home state and an
CTB> account from every state that you plan to merchant in for sales taxes.
CTB> next, you're gonna need stuff to sell at the events. third, you're
CTB> gonna need a sense of humor, a LARGE one, for when the total newbie
CTB> comes over to your shop with a competitor's catalog and boldly whines
CTB> 'I sure like this five foot flame-bladed great sword, but $300 is too
CTB> high. Can you make me one for about $50?' (true story, swear to Bhob)
CTB> Of course, a large reliable truck to carry the three tons of gear is
CTB> also a plus, but not required. ---------
CTB> Fidonet: Charly The Bastard 1:147/1077
CTB> Internet: Charly.The.Bastard at f1077.n147.z1.fidonet.org
Weelll... there is an easier way to start out, sort of get your feet wet.
That's to make your goods, and sell them through a merchant currently
working the SCA. You, of course, go along and help man the booth, etc.,
learning all the ins and outs of the trade.
BTW, since we're on the subject, what about mail-order between sales tax
states and non sales tax states. If I, in Oregon, sell shields by mail
outside the state, do I have to charge the recipient's local tax and remit
it?
... Moreach NicMhaolain
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: rzex60 at email.sps.mot.com (Jay Brandt)
Subject: Re: Merchanting in the SCA...
Organization: The Polyhedron Group
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 19:00:37 GMT
Suze.Hammond at f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Suze Hammond) wrote:
> Weelll... there is an easier way to start out, sort of get your feet wet.
> That's to make your goods, and sell them through a merchant currently
> working the SCA. You, of course, go along and help man the booth, etc.,
> learning all the ins and outs of the trade.
A good suggestion, and quite period. Apprenticeship to a merchant is an
ideal way to learn to become a merchant yourself, supposing you are in an
area large enough to have established merchants in need of more help.
> BTW, since we're on the subject, what about mail-order between sales tax
> states and non sales tax states. If I, in Oregon, sell shields by mail
> outside the state, do I have to charge the recipient's local tax and remit
> it?
An unqualified YES.
I asked that specific type of question to representatives of the Texas
Comptrollers office at a recent small business sales tax seminar, and they
were quite clear that ALL sales within a tax jurisdiction are subject to
sales tax, unless they are sold to a business with an appropriate sales and
use tax permit for resale later, or are being sold to a tax exempt
organization, such as a church, with appropriate paperwork to prove
exemption. It does not matter if the seller is in a state which does not
charge sales tax. If they take delivery in a tax jurisdiction, the tax
needs to be collected.
Now, if they come to you in Oregon, and receive the shields from you within
Oregon's borders, there is no tax to pay. They get the benefit of Oregon's
lack of a sales tax. (Sigh. It was -so- much simpler when I was selling in
Oregon.)
Incidentally, in many jurisdictions, a 501 C(3) tax-exempt organization,
such as the SCA, *IS* exempt from paying sales tax on items purchased for
use by the group. The necessary paperwork must be filed by the group, and
the merchandise must be for group use and not an individual. I'm currently
investigating this possibility for some regalia I'm bidding on construction
of in Ansteorra. It might save the Kingdom a few bucks if we can do it that
way.
--
Regards, Jay Brandt --- Austin, Texas, USA --- <rzex60 at email.sps.mot.com>
In the SCA, HLS Jason of Rosaria, JdL, GdS, AoA --------- (Member # 3016)
Owner / Designer / Craftsman ------------------------- Bear Paw Woodworks
From: dmontuor at telenet.com (Dave Montuori)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Merchanting in the SCA...
Date: 25 Oct 94 13:46:38 GMT
Jay Brandt <rzex60 at email.sps.mot.com> wrote:
>Suze.Hammond at f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Suze Hammond) wrote:
>> BTW, since we're on the subject, what about mail-order between sales tax
>> states and non sales tax states. If I, in Oregon, sell shields by mail
>> outside the state, do I have to charge the recipient's local tax and remit
>> it?
>
>An unqualified YES.
And now I must qualify it, since an unqualified yes is dead wrong. The
examples given make it perfectly clear that Texas answers "Yes." But...
Consider Virginia. If the seller is in-state, the seller must collect the
sales tax and send it in. (Given: the buyer takes delivery in-state.)
If the seller is out-of-state, BUT maintains a point of presence in
Virginia (e.g. Sears or M. Ward has store in Va. but their mail-order
biz is elsewhere), the seller must collect and remit the tax.
If the seller has no permanent presence in Virginia (mail-order-only
places, for example) then the seller need not collect the tax. In that
case, it is the BUYER'S responsibility to send the tax in directly to
Richmond themselves!?! (Sometimes this state is just completely weird.)
I'm reasonably certain that there are states whose sales tax only applies
to cases where the seller has a permanent presence in-state.
The upshot of all this: Don't assume ANYTHING, and check the relevant laws
well in advance.
Great quote from the East-Atlantia Pointless War/Breeder's Cup flyer...
"Merchant rules: No biting, do your own tax thing."
Evan da Collaureo, who went three rounds with Richmond earlier this year.
Support the Great Atlantian Breeding Program (tm) - Drink Stierbach Water
dmontuor%telenet.UUCP at uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: rzex60 at email.sps.mot.com (Jay Brandt)
Subject: Re: Merchanting in the SCA...
Organization: the Polyhedron Group
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 19:08:55 GMT
dmontuor at telenet.com (Dave Montuori) wrote:
> Jay Brandt <rzex60 at email.sps.mot.com> wrote:
> >Suze.Hammond at f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Suze Hammond) wrote:
> >> BTW, since we're on the subject, what about mail-order between sales tax
> >> states and non sales tax states. If I, in Oregon, sell shields by mail
> >> outside the state, do I have to charge the recipient's local tax and remit
> >> it?
> >
> >An unqualified YES.
>
> And now I must qualify it, since an unqualified yes is dead wrong. The
> examples given make it perfectly clear that Texas answers "Yes." But...
[Some excellent counter-examples cited here.]
> The upshot of all this: Don't assume ANYTHING, and check the relevant laws
> well in advance.
I stand corrected. I agree with you. Different jurisdictions have different
rules, and the merchant should check with mundane authorities to be safe.
Come to think of it, I recall Washington State businesses often advertized
'No tax for Oregon Buyers', which implies that the Texas rules -are-
different. And some mail order forms collect the vendor's state sales tax,
where others have you mark the appropriate rate (if any) for where you are
as the purchaser.
Goes to show you what can happen when a well-meaning person answers too
hastily.
Regards,
Jay Brandt
From: darrell.markewitz at ambassador.com (Darrell Markewitz)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: SCA & Festivals
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 14:12:16 GMT
the WAREHAM FORGE
Hamlet of Wareham
RR #2, Proton Stn
Ont, CDN - N0C 1L0
(519) 923- 9219
wareham.forge at ambassador.com
WJMICHALSIKI at DEPHICOM wrote:
"The way I deal with Ren Faires is to remember that the actors and
vendors are professionals (ie getting paid, and doing this for more than
a single weekend). I'd probably be ticked if someone was "cutting into"
my livelihood.
Another reason merchants might get irate, I feel, is the typical scadian
trait of explaining their hobby. To a merchant, if customers are
standing around listening to you talk. they're not looking at his
wares. Again, this is their livelihood."
If I might offer an alternative view - along with some ammunition to use
if you should be accused of causing these 'problems'.
(I make my living selling historic reproductions, both at re-creation
and crafts events. I was also on the production team for the
'Orangeville Medieval Festival" for 2 1/2 seasons.)
1) Professionals - Any one who is paid to provide a service at an event
should realize that they get paid whether they have a standing room crowd
before them or not. SCA (unpaid) performers should extend 'professional
courtisy' to other acts. In otherwords, avoid noise and position
conflicts etc. In both cases the MANAGEMENT is responcible for
schedualling and locations.
As was suggested in the original posting, the SCA should try to get a
liasion person into the planning sessions for the event - so any
conflicts are worked out in advance.
2) Vendors - In the retail world, everyone is trying for an edge. Too
many craftsmen that I see expect that their work should 'sell itself'
based on its quality. As someone once told me, "you gotta sell the
sizzle as much as the steak". Presentation of your product, and
explaining your product, are part of sucessful sales. I know that my
forge work sells as much because of the historical stories that I give
(constantly) as I sell it, as it does because of the quality of the
work. Commercial vendors that complain that someone else provides a
better 'show' than they do are basicly sucking on sour grapes.
From long personal experiance, I will state that "a Happy crowd is a
BUYING crowd". If any performer/vendor at your event complains that
you are drawing his business or crowd away from her, tell them that!
People who are enjoying themselves often forget about the mortgage
payment and spend just a little bit more. People who get a lot of things
to see and do for an entry fee will appreciate the value, and spend just
a little bit more.
On the other side, the SCA must also act in a professional manner. That
means being polite AT ALL TIMES, reguardless of how dorky the public
gework with the public increases the reputation of the SCA and leads to
increased membership.
If handled with a professional attitude on both sides, the inclusion of
the SCA at an event will be a win/win situation.
Darrell/Sylard
From: curt.owings-christian at syncomm.com (CURT OWINGS-CHRISTIAN)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: RE: Period Veggies
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 94 23:52:00 -0400
Organization: Synergy Online, Parsippany, NJ (201) 331-1797
Ranvaig,
The main problem with merchanting veggies at war is that the
rules for selling at Pennsic include the provision that anything sold by
the Coopers cannot be sold by the merchants. They sell vegtiables.
That is why I do not carry citronella candles or emergency candles at
war.
Ruedy
From: Kim Pollard <kim at inna.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Large events (200+ people) in Ansteorra
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 07:21:07 -0400
Organization: Three Bubbas InnaNet.
On Thu, 30 May 1996, Terry L. Mixon wrote:
> I have some friends that are blade merchants in the mundane world and
> are looking to take thier wares to events. What they do not want is to
> look at the calendar and not know if the event is large enough to make it
> worth going to. If any of you good folk could pass on which big events
> are coming up still this year, where they are, and about how many people
> have historicly attended, they will be deeply in your debt.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Uillec MacAoidh
> Shire of Emerald Keep
Just some friendly advise from one new SCA merchant to another...
Most events will only charge you a small ($10 or less) fee for showing up
and spending a day with them. Many smaller events do not even do that.
All you must do is show up and set out your wares. This may be tedious
if you have a large set-up, but the connections, word-of-mouth
reputation and free advertising are priceless! Tell your friends to show
up at ANY nearby event, no matter how small... in thelong run, if they
have given the populous a good impression, the word will get out about
their wares and the return will be worth it!
Kimberly
Tyger Cub Enterprises
From: cav at bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period wares (was jurying merchants)
Date: 2 Jul 1996 18:44:30 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Kim Pollard <kim at inna.net> writes:
|> Part of the problem here is the "supply & demand" principle of creating
|> "period" merchandise that is not only documentable, but affordable. The time
|> it takes to make a "period" item is much too long for the average merchant.
|> For example...
This is all true, but I think we should try to think about *why* it's true.
With other reenactment groups, people seem to be willing to pay large sums of
money for authentic kit.
SCA folks seem to be quite willing to part with large sums of money for certain
items ( armour, weapons, jewellry/corronets).
My wares are about as documentably period as most anything you'll see in an
SCA A&S competition. Any customer who wants documentation need only ask (I
wrote some up for someone who bought an alum tawed goatskin dyed with madder
and brasilwood - he was making a pair of poulaines for an A&S entry). My
wares are also expensive, and I probably wouldn't ever bother to set up a
booth at an SCA event. The sales could never justify the time/travel expense.
|> "Period" goods were hand crafted by skilled (usually) artisans who spent
|> their entire day working at their craft. "Modern" (not necessarily Mundane)
|> merchants spend whatever's left of their day AFTER their mundane workday is
|> over gathering items that their customer's hopefully want and can AFFORD. If
|> something does not sell, it is discontinued or sold to an audience that does
|> want it.
You should be aiming to make a decent hourly wage whether you're working at a
craft full time, or after your mundane workday. The temptation is to let the
day job subsidize your craftwork.
|> I am an artist as well as a merchant and would LOVE nothing more than to
|> provide more "documentable" items to my customers. It not only makes me feel
|> great to create an item from scratch the way our ancestors did, but it also
|> would make my merchanting booth more attractive. However, after trying to do
|> just that*, I have concluded it just is not feasible.
Sad, but probably true. There are certain things we can somehow justify
spending gobs of money on, but others we don't. I think the 'do it yourself'
culture of the SCA is partly to blame for this. Not that we should be
discouraging people from doing things for themselves, but it does make it
difficult for some craftspeople to get a decent return for their work.
Cheers, Rick/Balderik
From: Kim Pollard <kim at inna.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period wares (was jurying merchants)
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 07:21:22 -0400
On 2 Jul 1996, C. Clark wrote:
> What I'd like to see is a few more merchants with documentation. Why is
> it that we can go to A&S competitions and see documentation for things
> that we're never going to have unless we spend dozens of hours learning
> to make them and another dozen hours making them, but when we actually
> see things that we can buy for our own use we're usually offered no
> documentation whatsoever? As long as we take it for granted that only
> experts (or walking libraries) are able to identify and buy period goods,
> we should also take it for granted that such goods will rarely be
> available--even if they could be sold at affordable prices.
>
> Henry of Maldon/Alex Clark
Part of the problem here is the "supply & demand" principle of creating
"period" merchandise that is not only documentable, but affordable. The time
it takes to make a "period" item is much too long for the average merchant.
For example...
If you wish to have a "period" leather flask, then you will have to pay
for a) that merchant's research time - b) the cost of materials, which
are NOT inexpensive - c) the merchant's time actually creating the wares
(an average of 1 to 2 days PER ITEM, and THEN - d) a reasonable markup.
Now, if you consider there is a merchantable event nearly every weekend
within a 6 hour drive (my personal time limit), that leaves only 3 to 4 days
to create the merchandise. At that rate, a merchant would have only one or
two things to sell per event OF ONLY ONE OR TWO ITEMS. Maybe more if no one
buys anything at an event (bummer - no gas/food money to get back home),
maybe less if everything sells (bummer - the merchant has to spend another
week creating an item that does not allow any other item to be created.
"Period" goods were hand crafted by skilled (usually) artisans who spent
their entire day working at their craft. "Modern" (not necessarily Mundane)
merchants spend whatever's left of their day AFTER their mundane workday is
over gathering items that their customer's hopefully want and can AFFORD. If
something does not sell, it is discontinued or sold to an audience that does
want it.
I am an artist as well as a merchant and would LOVE nothing more than to
provide more "documentable" items to my customers. It not only makes me feel
great to create an item from scratch the way our ancestors did, but it also
would make my merchanting booth more attractive. However, after trying to do
just that*, I have concluded it just is not feasible. Not only are the items
too expensive for the average person, but the time it takes to actually
create the item leaves me with no life. I will happily create a "period"
item for a friend or as a gift for my liege lord, but I simply have no time
to mass produce the items for sale at market where only those with serious
money can afford them - and these folks are too far and few between.
Hope this helps you understand the "modern" merchant's predicament.
Yours In Service,
Kimberly
Tyger Cub Enterprises - http://www.inna.net/tyger-cub
* The item I was making were hand sewn pouches. These take at least a day to
do which would mean, if I didn't want to do anything else by hand, I had an
average of 2 o 3 items per event to show. Any merchant can tell you, if you
don't have a large selection, people tend to pass you by -- and I was being
passed over too frequently to make this type of item worth my time. I
still carry the odd hand sewn pouch or two, but now I also carry a
variety of mass produced, easily affordable items that DO sell.
Believe me... if there wasn't a market, it wouldn't be sold.
Subject: Re: ANST - Merchants (was Belts and their meaning)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 98 16:37:30 MST
From: knotwork at juno.com
To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG
On Thu, 09 Apr 1998 00:25:17 EDT maynedelacroix at juno.com (SCOTT A WAGGONER) writes:
>On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, Dennis Grace <amazing at mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
>
>>Shouldn't most of us be doing that for some of the virtues
>>of the Chivalry? After all, many of the chivalric virtues
>>are virtues for others. E.g., no prowess and courage would
>>be expected of a mere merchant, but largess, courtoisie, and
>>pity for women, priests, and the weak in general are
>>commendable for him.
>
>Hate to break in on this but I just have to ask... Where are you
>finding your merchants??
>
>Let me dissect your comment...
>
>no prowess or courage : You have never paid three dollars for a
>hotdog at the movies?
> You have to be pretty brave to charge that!!
>
>largess: Oh there's a concept! A merchant giving stuff away for the
>asking!
>
><g>
>
>Mayne de la Croix --- The original MiB
>Gate's Edge Canton, Barony of Stargate, Ansteorra
Mayne,
I have to step in here in defense of merchants. I have been a merchant
almost since I joined the SCA about 17 years ago. Starting out, I just
threw a blanket on the ground and sold jewelry I had found at garage
sales. Now, I have a tent that cost over $1000, and sell mostly new
merchandise from several sources I have found over the years. While I
generally come close to breaking even, I don't make much _profit_ to
speak of.
I chose to become a merchant because I kept seeing things I thought
people in the SCA would like the opportunity to own in order to add to
their enjoyment in playing this game. (I have a background in marketing
and a good job, so money is not really a consideration. Including cost
of goods to sell, travel expenses and the occasional merchanting fee,
this part of my hobby can be quite costly!) Also, being fairly
sedentary, it is a great way to meet people, because almost everyone
comes by the Stone Rainbow booth eventually, and I don't have to run all
over the place. Although I don;t mind separating the occasional mundane
from his money at Renfairs <grin>, I don't overcharge, I bargain, and I
offer discounts to SCA folks. I sell mostly books, jewelry, gemstones,
gift items, and toys and candy for the kids.
Prowess and courage? Haggling in the marketplace is a delicate dance of
"thrust and parry," and is fun besides. Largesse? Besides being
available as a place for others to get largesse to hand out, I am
fortunate to be able to be generous when I want to. (It's my stuff to
give away, and I often do!) Courtly behavior? I assure you that I do my
best to uphold the ideals of the Society. I have spent many hours at
troll booths and A&S displays and in the kitchen. Seldom do I set up to
sell at local events so I can be available to help. (Some people in my
own shire don't even know I am a merchant.) Service is very important to
me, and being a merchant is a service, too! Pity for the weak? One
reason I started handling toys and candy is to have something to give the
children to make their events memorable. (Yes, I said _give_. Although
I'd rather the parents bought the kids something, there is the occasional
child that captures my heart, and if a lollipop will make his day, it
makes mine, too.) I also sell some items made by others who prefer not to
be stuck at a booth all day, and my commission is very minimal.
I don't know where _you_ find _your_ merchants, but the ones I know are,
on the whole, fine and decent folks who go to a lot of trouble packing
and wagging around their wares so _you_ can get some "neat stuff" to help
make your Dream come true.
Another "mere merchant,"
Joanna
Subject: Re: ANST - Merchants (was Belts and their meaning)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 98 17:33:13 MST
From: "Lady Rosina" <gwendylon at hotmail.com>
To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG
I too am coming to the defense of merchants. You cannot clump us all in
one category cause we all have different reason for becoming a merchant.
I became a merchant cause I felt it was time to do something different
in the SCA.. I hae been in the SCA for 5 yrs helping with events and
going to events and it was time for a change.
I meet lots of new people that I wouldn't ordinarily even talk to. I
bring to the SCA populous items that they need at a reasonable cost and
I have even given stuf away and it surprised the people cause it came
from a merchant.
Again I ask of you, Please don't judge all merchants by a select few.
Rosina
Subject: RE: ANST - Merchants (was Belts and their meaning)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 98 07:23:48 MST
From: John Ruble <jruble at urocor.com>
To: "'ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG'" <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG>
> Another "mere merchant," Joanna, said:
...
> fortunate to be able to be generous when I want to. (It's my stuff to
> give away, and I often do!)
...
> reason I started handling toys and candy is to have something to give the
> children to make their events memorable. (Yes, I said _give_. Although
...etc.
Well, I have to concur. When my children were younger and more adorable, I
would frequently find some merchant giving them some small trinket that just
made their day. They still have most of those trinkets too. My lady wife
hasn't lost that adorable quality, and I occasionally find some merchant
giving *her* some small trinket, which makes her day and apparently makes
the merchant's day too. (She still has most of them...)
I've never had a bad thing to say about merchants as a whole. Merchanting
is an honorable and respectable profession, and I've often used it for a
disgu... em, I've often pursued it when traveling to the Frankish lands.
While within our medieval framework it is difficult to give them the credit
they are due for adding *so much* to our Game for so little gain, I would
like to offer all those merchants out there reading this a very hearty
VIVAT! and my thanks.
-Ulf
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 00:37:04 -0600
From: Roberta R Comstock <froggestow at juno.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Arts/Crafts/Money
A while back there was a pricing discussion on another list (Weavers
Words - basketry list)
in which one of the well-known published instructors was asked about how
she prices a basket.
She gave a price for a specific basket of, say $25. When the potential
buyer asked her how much it would cost for a dozen of them, all alike,
the weaver said the cost would be $45 each, and probably higher yet for
larger quantities. The shopper was aghast, having hoped for a bulk rate
deal. But the weaver said the cost increase was based on how boring it
is to do the same thing over and over and how much she would hate to
spend the time doing so.
It seemed perfectly reasonable to me! Another reason I'm not a merchant.
Hertha
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 07:10:29 -0600
From: "Rikki Mitman" <esmitman at ghg.net>
To: <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Re: Arts/Crafts/Money
Having been a merchant as my sole source of income for a couple of tough
years, I have strong feelings about charging an additional fee for merchants
(except at wars, which can count on huge turnouts).
Merchants can contribute a great deal to the atmosphere of an event. They
bring things we can't find at the local Wal Mart. And they generally aren't
making a killing on it. They have no guarantee of turnout. It could rain.
They take a lot of risk. There were times that I went home without making
back my expenses.
Still, merchants are usually very glad to donate a prize or raffle item. I
would encourage event organizers to consider doing without an additional
merchants fee.
Mistress Teleri ferch Pawl
Ansteorra
From: theducks at greenduck.com (Steve Urbach)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Merchanting in the SCA
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:11:23 GMT
On Thu, 22 Apr 1999 21:24:39 GMT, Elizabeth <ksilverhorn at home.com>
wrote:
>I am new to the SCA, and am a merchant. My question is this:
>
>Are there any guidelines/ rules for merchants in the SCA? Are these
>guides standard or dso they vary from event to event or barony to
>barony? I do not want to go to my first event as a merchant and do
>something horribly wrong.
>
>Roisin Dubh
>Silverhorn Designs
Rule 1: Check with the site Merchacrat well in advance for event
specific rules.
Rule 2: Comply with local laws (sales tax, food permits), but play it
low key. Again ask the event Merchocrat FIRST before alerting local
authorities <G>. No ilegal substances...
Rule 3: Target SCA specific interests with you product(s). Discretely
display Mundane "support" products like Propane, batteries...
Rule4: Hide mundane Chrome tables and chairs with a cloth (can you say
old sheet?)
Rule 5: Have FUN
Derek Dragonsclaw
Green Duck Designs (and books)
_
| \ Steve Urbach
| )erek
____|_/ragonsclaw theducks at greenduck.com
/ / / http://www.greenduck.com
From: lindahl at pbm.com (Greg Lindahl)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Juried Merchants List
Date: 15 Oct 1999 14:08:22 GMT
Hello! I would like to remind everyone about a free resource, the
Juried Merchants List. It is a resource for vendors who sell authentic
stuff, and people who want to buy authentic stuff. Merchants on this
list have at least made an effort to identify what time and place
their goods come from. I hope that you will find it useful.
http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/merchants/
As I mentioned above, this is a free service for both buyers and
sellers, and carries no paid advertisement. The list generated 5,960
visits to merchant sites in September 1999. There are currently 61
merchants on the list.
-- Gregory Blount
From: Rayne/Richard <PRIDEelectric at centurytel.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: To all merchants
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 12:47:51 -0500
bert at suite224.net wrote:
> I , as an SCA merchant who has been burned by a deadbeat, (that is to
> say one who has taken what turned out to be an unredeemable rubber
> check) would like to start a website to keep all other SCA merchants
> informed of those who should be avoided with regard to this form of
> payment.
> If you are interested in this concept, please contact me at:
> bert at suite224.net
> I am looking into getting a site together where you can check before a
> given show to see who in your area may be a problem.
Definitely need to check your own state laws. I have been a SCA merchant
for years and have worked in numerous retail establishments over the past
25 plus years.
Something that has worked for me is to follow these steps:
(1) You get the check, put it into your bank and you cash it and it comes
back NSF.
(2) You write to the individual, a nice letter, sending them a copy of the
checking showing the NSF stamp. You tell them that you will re-deposit
check on a date 3 weeks into the future. This gives them two weeks AFTER
they receive the letter to make sure that they have the funds in their
account. You let them know that they can send you a postal money order
prior to the deposit date if they do not want it re-deposited. You make
three copies of this letter. One you keep for your records. One you send
certified, the other via regular mail. (why? because some people just do
not sign for and pick up registered mail)
(3) If they do not contact you - you re-deposit the check. If it doesn't
clear a second time (NSF). Most banks will not allow you to submit a
third time. (and in many states NSF two times is a major offense)
(4) Now you need to get tougher. If your bank has charged you any fees,
you will need to collect them. Figure up the total cost they now owe
you. Bank fees, handling fees, postage fees, etc. And send them a letter
stating that you will notify the local authorities in an attempt to
collect this debt and post their NSF check publicly at all events that you
merchant at. (this is legal in the states I have worked in - commercial
businesses put the names on a sign outside their business, stick it beside
the cash register, put notices in the newspaper, etc. - Check the laws in
their state and yours) I also state that if I do not hear from them I will
begin contacting their local group in an attempt to contact them. (now
you need to be aware of Federal laws on contacting people in an attempt to
collect a debt from a third party)
(5) Now if the check comes back after the initial deposit "Account
Closed" follow the same steps, just say the check was "account closed" and
give them the chance to pay by money order and follow the other steps.
Also in most states - writing a check on a closed account is a major
offense.
As to your website. I don't know how well this would work. If you did
the research and found out the laws for the posting of personal
information. If you made sure that if I, as merchant, wasn't sending you
my ex-lover's name just because I was a "itch" .
And I guess that you could call your website listing a "general name"
like: "Listing of person(s) who required additional contact to collect
payment for SCA merchandise." It doesn't say they were "dead-beats" or
never paid, had a bad check or pointed any "major" fingers - such wording
might (or might not) cover you.
Just a few ideas... BTW I never have had a bad SCA check. I require
the "normal" mundane ID, plus a current SCA Blue Card. I write the local
group name on the check also.
Rayne
(formerly of Blackwater Wares)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 06:16:19 -0500
From: Diana L Skaggs <upsxdls_osu at ionet.net>
Subject: SC - OP - Bartering formula
>While splitting the bill for cheese sticks and pitchers I wondered how do
>you listees come to a fair trade when offering goods and services to fellow
>scadians. Nyckademus
I consider each trade/barter carefully. First, I have to make sure I
actually have time & funds on my side of the deal. Second, who am I
bartering with? Are they reliable? (I fulfulled my side of the bargain,
am I sure they will fill theirs and what am I willing to do if they don't?)
Is the person a friend? an acquaintance? an adult or child? What do I want
in return?
Rule of thumb: I find out what everyone else is charging for the service.
If I'm doing it for a friend, I charge less. For example: when deciding
on the cost of garb. I charge $10 per hour for my time (local seamstress'
rate). If it's easy, say a tunic, no trim, machine hemmed the cost is
rarely over $10 plus materials. If trim is involved, or if they want
everything sewn by hand, I charge extra. If I supply the materials, I use
the cost plus a fee for my time and travel. If I buy $1 per yard fabric at
the local Walmart, the time & travel fee are small. If I have to go to OKC
or Tulsa for supplies, I have to charge more, because it's a special trip.
If a large initial outlay is involved say velvet & satin for court garb, I
ask for material dollars up front. Working with satin & velvet is much
more difficult for me than cotton, it takes longer, so I have to estimate
costs higher.
Exception: are they offering something besides cash? Say, housework or
yardwork? If I had to pay someone for housework, it would cost me between
$7.50 & $10 per hour. I've been known to sew for someone while they clean.
I get a clean house and they get new garb.
I charge $20.00 per hour for violin lessons. Usually children can only
take a half-hour at a time, so I charge $40 per month. No refunds for
missed lessons (without a REALLY good reason). I have to build my schedule
around teaching, and have to be available whether a student shows or not. I
used to give lessons for free, just because I like to teach and see new
players started out right, even if lesson money is scarce. But, free
lessons didn't seem to be taken as seriously as paid lessons. So, I had to
make the change.
Oops, sorry to get to rambling. I guess my bottom line is I charge on an
individual basis and have several considerations.
Leanna
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 11:30:33 -0700
From: david friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] question: Medieval restaurant at Pennsic
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
>>>
I just finished lunching with a friend who does catering for a living. I, of course, was enthusiastically telling him about my upcoming "vacation" and
he was interested in the food vending. I told him that it was pretty much
covered, except that most of the "in period" food was done at the individual
campsites. He is very interested in learning if it would be feasible to do a
totally medieval food vending at Pennsic. (not this year!). So...I know we've
talked about this, but I don't know what the consensus was.
<<<
So far as I can remember, the only example in the past was run by
Carolingians, including Marion of Edwinstowe, for a few years many
years ago. They not only served period food, they built clay ovens on
site for baking, cooked over the fire--the only out of period
equipment, as I recall, was refrigerators. It was an impressive
effort, but I would expect it would be a good deal easier to do
period food using modern equipment.
> Would people buy period food?
I would. I suspect a significant minority would. But to make it a
commercial success, it would have to be good enough so that a
significant number of people were buying it, not because it was
period but because it was good. Indeed, it might make sense not to
make a point of advertising that it was period, just to give the
restaurant some appropriate sounding name, have only period things on
the menu, and let people figure out for themselves--or not--that it
was from period recipes.
>>>
Would he do better with a push-cart, vending
around the A&S tents and the battlefields?
<<<
Interesting idea. I don't remember anyone doing it, and don't know if
there are rules that would prevent it. He could make things such as
barmakiya that are good period finger food.
>>>
Is it even possible for a newcomer to get a food vending license? I don't do any merchanting (I only buy), so I'm totally clueless.
What about this idea: (OOP)..a pushcart selling frozen snack items (sort
of a medieval "ice-cream truck")?
<<<<
That I probably wouldn't buy from, since the feel would be less
period than what's there now, not more.
--
David/Cariadoc
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:10:38 -0400
From: "Sudden Service #5" <sudnserv5 at netway.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: question: Medieval restaurant at Pennsic
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
As someone who has made a short lived attempt at a restaurant at Pennsic
XXII, I can make some suggestions:
1) Arrange for lots of help before arrival, at least 2 or 3 times as many
people as you think you need- you will have lots of people flake out on you
after they realize that they are not having as much fun as they could be at
Pennsic because they are working-HARD, Hot, Sweaty work, too. In fact if
you could hire non SCAdians it would be best. I have noticed that the other
SCAdians who were running places have all disappeared in the gap of time
since I ran the New Cheshire Inn/Olaf's Plunder & my return to Pennsic 8
years latter. I would not have done the Inn the next year even if I had
been there as a merchant because of the lack of reliable competent helpers
(I did not attend because of personnel problems)
2) At the time I was not required by the Coopers to get a food handling
license, that may have changed, it was felt that since I was serving to a
closed group, not the general public, it was not required of me. If you are
not doing catering outside of the SCA you most likely will find the
requirements for a Catering License (insurance, equipment, on site
refrigeration, inspections & such) staggering. You do have to get a Sales
Tax License & pay the sales tax like any other Pennsic merchant.
3) Most people will eat any well prepared food that looks & smells
appetizing. If you are making dishes that are good tasting they will come
back & bring friends, Period food will bring in many SCAdians IF it meets
the previous criteria. Some of my dishes were period, most were periodal,
but then I was much less educated on the subject back then. I did cook over
charcoal braziers though.
Pax,
Olaf of Trollhiemsfjord
who misses Battlefield Bakery as well
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:00:26 +1000
From: "Glenda Robinson" <glendar at compassnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] question: Medieval restaurant at Pennsic
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
I've always had great success with biscuits from a basket too. So many
in-period (or nearly) that are just wonderful, with the additional bonus of being able to make them ahead of time.
Glenda.
----- Original Message -----
There are certainly items that could be sold from a mobile market. Pasties,
Tart for an Ember Day, roasted meats, sausages, breads, cheeses...heck I
could go on and on! So could any one of us.
------
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:25:54 -0400
From: "Rosine" <nothingbutadame at inthe.sca.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] question: Medieval restaurant at Pennsic
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Meat Pies. In my son's age group (high school and early college) they'll
take either pizza or those frozen meat-in-pastry things over just about
anything else... and I'd go for a hand-held meal as well - meat, veggie,
sweet. I think such a stand would have lines to rival any of the food
court's present servers.
And it'd be faboo to be able to stroll through the marketplace eating
without carting around a paper plate. (ugh!)
Rosine
From: clevin at ripco.com (Craig Levin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: how to persue merchants?
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 02:01:19 +0000 (UTC)
The Bratt <brattboy at aros.net> wrote:
>I have been wondering how one can go about asking cettain merchants to
>visit events and wars for items in specific that you know the merchant
>would be well recieved? I'm not sure if I'm asking this correctly, but
>I would really like opinions.
Speaking as the protege of a merchant, I've got to say that the
easiest way to get a merchant to stock something is to ask. We're
in this to make money, after all, & the best way to do that is to
meet the needs & wants of the consumers. Similarly, if you want a
speecific merchant to go to your event, ask. You have to go to
where the consumers are to sell your goods.
For repeat performances, consider where you put the merchant(s)
in relation to the rest of the event. If you put the merchant(s)
in a pavilion or a field far from the list field, the mess hall,
etc., little business will take place, & the merchant(s) won't be
too enthusiastic about coming back. Also, consider the nature of
the event. Outdoor events aren't necessarily going to attract a
bookseller, whose wares fare ill when exposed to humidity, wind,
& temperature changes, but someone who sells things like feast
gear won't be as troubled.
Pedro
--
http://pages.ripco.net/~clevin/index.html
clevin at ripco.com
Craig Levin Librarians Rule: Oook!
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 20:02:59 -0500
From: Cynthia Virtue <cvirtue at thibault.org>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: how to persue merchants?
Are you asking, as a private person, how to entice merchants to come to
your area? Or are you as an event organizer, trying to get merchants in
your area? Or do you want merchants to come and bring X merchandise and
not Y merchandise?
The first step would be to write the merchant a fan letter, saying that
you love their wares and it would be great if they'd come. Steps 2
through N depend on answers above for tactics.
I buy much of my SCA stuff via merchants' web pages, these days. But
I've got all my basic gear, so what I get tends to be higher-ticket,
specific-use stuffy authenticisist things. It's less economical for
such a merchant to cart around, than to bring more middle-range, popular
stuff to a war.
cv
From: Claude Anthony Penny <cpenny at swbell.net>
Date: September 19, 2006 2:04:37 PM CDT
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] period on a budget
On offering labor, many of the smaller merchants, travel without help.
Most would be willing to trade stock for work. Ask, but be nice, don't
act like you think their work is overpriced or poor quality. Admire
their items (even if they are doing resale) and offer your labor in
trade. Some may not need any help, but someone will. I tend to be more
willing to trade when I've had a good show (for labor or other), and for
an item I might want, when I've had a horrible show. Don't forget
offering things like running errands, booth, pet or kid sitting, and
even Massages. Learn some massage, get good at it, (not always sexy),
you'll have something you can trade, both in and out of the SCA. Some
of these hints might well work at mundane art shows as well.
I have an upcoming show where I will need to have the booth open for 12
hours straight (not counting getting it open and closed). I will have a
little help in the morning, but none after around noon. Any offer of
help would be well received, and I know that a lot of other vendors end
up with the same dilemma
Cairenn
From: David Backlin <edrei at smythkepe.org>
Date: October 6, 2006 7:50:12 PM CDT
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Merchanting Info.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Silverhands" <silverhands at sbcglobal.net>
> They required that all merchants have a valid Oklahoma state Tax ID
> (if I recall correctly) for purposes of collecting sales tax --
> effectively eliminating "casual/amateur" merchanting. But
> "professional" merchants should be in the clear, since of course they
> already have a valid Tax ID for every state they operate in, are
> collecting sales tax on everything they sell, and are reporting it to
> the appropriate state authorities.
Does Oklahoma still require a $500 bond for out of state merchants? I
cannot afford such a thing, so have no Oklahoma ID and thus do not
merchant in Oklahoma.
Most states, to my knowledge, do not require a deposit/bond as long
as you report on time.
Some events will charge a merchant fee &/or require a donation to the
prize chest. It depends on the group and depends on the event. Each
event & each event site may have its own quirks regarding merchants
so it's always best to check ahead of time to see what the rules are.
For example: in one state, the state parks specify where vendors can
set-up and often frown upon vendors who wish to camp in their booth,
while I've known some groups to frown upon merchants altogether.
There are several SCA merchant discussion lists where you can get
more information. Two of the main ones are: sca-
merchants at yahoogroups.com and sca_merchants at yahoogroups.com
Ld Edrei the Quiet
(mka David Backlin)
Merchant and Adventurer
Shire of Smythkepe
From: Sarah & Richard Yeager <young.yeager at gmail.com>
Date: October 6, 2006 9:15:59 PM CDT
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Merchanting Info.
Yes Oklahoma does, $500 dollar cash bond and most of the insurance companys
won't write a $500 security bond.
I tried to do Acadamy of the Bow when I found this out I went home. I called
Oklahoma City the week before and even though I told the woman I was from
Texas, she had failed to supply the information, I got to Ardmore, Ok
before I found out the above.
Most other states do like Texas, you pay your $20, get your certificate and
collect you taxes.
Mirabilla la Archiere
On 10/6/06, David Backlin <edrei at smythkepe.org> wrote:
> Does Oklahoma still require a $500 bond for out of state merchants? I
> cannot afford such a thing, so have no Oklahoma ID and thus do not
> merchant in Oklahoma.
From: Elric Dracwin <dracwin at cox.net>
Date: October 7, 2006 8:13:35 AM CDT
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Merchanting Info.
The state of Oklahoma requires Special Event Coordinators to get a $50
permit to allow merchants to sell their wares. The Special Event Coordinator
must daily collect the taxes from any merchants that do not have a valid
Oklahoma Tax ID and remit it to the state. The group running the event then
becomes liable for those taxes.
In conjunction with this law the state of Oklahoma also decided that they
would increase the bond requirement and not issue Oklahoma Tax ID's to any
casual merchant. I think they were going for a decrease in paperwork and
labor by shunting that to the Special Event Coordinators. There are
exceptions in the permit requirement for some non-profit groups (e.g.
schools and churches) but the SCA is not covered by any of the exception
categories.
When the law was passed (4 years ago?) Ansteorra declared there would be no
merchanting allowed in Oklahoma and we went for 1 year without any. Over the
subsequent years we worked with the kingdom officers and the Oklahoma Tax
Commission through several permutations of handling procedures. The current
version of the compromise is: We do not have to get the $50 permits and only
allow merchants with valid Oklahoma Tax ID's. That eliminates the SCA's
liability for sales taxes.
There is a special provision in the law where we could submit a request to
not be liable for the taxes and pay the $50 (per site used). That would
allow us to have merchants without an Oklahoma Tax ID. This was brought to
my attention this year and may be considered for next year.
Elric Dracwin
Baron Wiesenfeuer
Northern Region Merchant Coordinator
From: Coblaith Muimnech <Coblaith at sbcglobal.net>
Date: January 22, 2010 4:32:59 PM CST
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Ansteorra] selling S.C.A. stuff (was: Is it ok?)
Sigen Northkeep wrote:
<<< . . .could someone direct me to an appropriate place [to post SCA type things for sale]? >>>
How 'bout:
the SCAforsale Yahoo! Group <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCAforsale/>;
the garb4sale Yahoo! Group <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/garb4sale>; (if it's meant to be worn)
the Medieval Ventures auction site <http://medievalventures.com/>;
the Reenactor Stuff auction site <http://www.reenactorstuff.com/auction/>;
the SCA Auctions site <http://scaauction.org/>; (if you're optimistic)
ArtFire <http://www.artfire.com> (if it is handmade, was designed by you and fabricated in a run of less than 500, is more than 20 years old and has "collectible or artistic value", is "a traditional crafting supply", or is "an item that can be repurposed to be used in an artistic manner"), or
etsy <http://www.etsy.com/>; (if it is handmade, is over 20 years old with "vintage appeal", or qualifies as "crafting supplies")?
Coblaith Muimnech
<mailto:Coblaith at sbcglobal.net>
From: Jeremy Sacksteder <thorirson_gunnar at HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: January 13, 2011 9:17:00 AM CST
To: CALONTIR at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: [CALONTIR] No Merchanting at Crown Tourney
Down here in Crystal Mynes (SW Mo Jasper Co/Newton Co) we have to do that all the time.
At most sites, it can make the difference of $35/hr (non-profit) versus $150+/hr (standard) or flat rates of $100 vs $1000.
There are even a couple sites here that wanted a percentage of merchant sales to even allow merchanting.
It has been about 6 years since we have had merchanting at a Shire hosted event, local or Kingdom level.
In Service,
Gunnar Thorisson
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 22:04:09 -0600
From: norseceltbear at GMAIL.COM
Subject: Re: [CALONTIR] No Merchanting at Crown Tourney
To: CALONTIR at listserv.unl.edu
As someone that is new to the society is that a normal thing that a group would book at a non-profit rate and thus not have retail merchandising at a major kingdom event.
Dmitr
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 9:10 PM, Kamiizumi Hirotaro <kamiizumi.hirotaro at gmail.com> wrote:
Greetings unto the Populace of Calontir!
I would like to take a moment to let everyone know that there will be no retail merchanting at Crown Tourney. This is due to the fact that we rented the facility at a non-profit rate, and sales are explicitly forbidden at that rental rate.
This does not affect the Fundraising activities for this event, as they are benefitting a not-for-profit organization.
If you have any questions about this, please contact me directly.
Yours in Service,
Taro, Event Steward
--
Dmitr Ivanovich syn Medvedko
Deputy Chatelaine of Shire of Standing Stones
Kingdom of Calontir
Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 07:06:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Karen <karen_larsdatter at yahoo.com>
To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
Subject: Re: [MR] EZ up type tents
Tangwystel asked:
<<< Can anyone share their love/hate stories with their EZ up type tent? >>>
Actually, we've got an EZ-Up. We've used it as a dayshade at events where we
lacked the vehicle space to bring a pavilion, or if the effort of setting up a
larger pavilion wasn't going to be worth the effort for the amount of time we'd
be spending at the event.
No, we don't fuss with adding "period" canvas.? No, I don't recall hearing
Anyone (outside of my inner orphenticity-critic) griping about how
"non-authentic" it was, either. ;-)
It's a cheap and relatively quick-to-acquire and quick-to-setup
dayshade/shelter, and it'll probably last long enough for you to use while you
make or save up for or acquire something that you prefer (either because it's
more historically accurate, or allows you to store & display your wares better,
or because it just looks prettier) ;-)
For what it's worth, you can go to http://larsdatter.com/merchantbooths.htm and
find lots of images of the sorts of temporary structures & shelters that
merchants used at fairs in the Middle Ages. You may find a booth structure that
suits your needs, in terms of display and storage. (See also
http://larsdatter.com/merchantstalls.htm for more permanent sorts of
shop displays, rather than temporary shelters.)
(And -- oh, HERE'S fightin' words -- doesn't the 14th century girdler's booth in
the Egerton Genesis at
http://www.bl.uk/catalogues/illuminatedmanuscripts/ILLUMIN.ASP?Size=mid&;IllID=10811?
Look an awful lot like a small EZ-Up?) ;-)
Karen Larsdatter
www.larsdatter.com
To: scanewcomers at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Vender info
Posted by: "Justinos Tekton called Justin" justin at 4th.com courtney4thcom
Date: Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:49 am ((PDT))
On Sat, 2011-09-10 at 04:24 +0000, ann wrote:
<<< I have not been in the SCA very long and I've tried throw weapons
which I enjoyed. I am looking to buy a couple of throw axes from
Ragweed Forge and would like any info on this vender. I never brought
anything off the internet so I don't know much about venders (I like
to see and touch what I am buying).
Aine Oliphant >>>
I can't comment on the specific vendor you mention, as I have not done
business with them, but I would like to suggest two other sources of
information.
I happen to also be the publisher of SCAtoday.net, an SCA-related (but
completely unofficial) news blog. We have a merchant listing online. We
don't specifically endorse nor recommend any merchant, but simply offer
their contact info impartially, as a public service:
http://www.scatoday.net/merchants
The other place you could go is an email list called "commercial", which
is where we invite merchants to post offers and information. It's an
opt-in email list -- that is, YOU have to choose to subscribe yourself
because you WANT commercial stuff from SCA merchants -- but we "filter"
the merchants we allow on the list, so you'll receive offers only from
SCA-related merchants and not from general consumer ads. It's actually
very, very low traffic -- in fact, I wish we could get the merchants to
post more often. The list is at:
http://lists.scatoday.net/listinfo/commercial
Perhaps someone else on *this* list has had experience with the specific
vendor you have in mind, and can comment on their quality and service.
Justin
--
Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
From BrynGwlad at groups.facebook.com
Casey W. Thorp
2:36pm Oct 25
Could someone help me find a ballpark range or average for merchant fees in Ansteorra?
Followed up with, are site fees typically included or separate?
I have a family of five, and am looking into merchanting as a way to help bring the whole family along.
Wiglaf Arduisca
a.m.k.a. Casey Thorp
Lisa Cochran Sawyer
3:48pm Oct 25
Most of the time, at a regular event, there is not a fee for merchanting. Your site fee is all you pay. However, it is considered a kind gesture to donate something to the local group to use as largesse.
For bigger events, such as Gulf Wars (I've been deputy Merchantcrat for several years), there is a fee based on square footage of your shop. You have to apply to merchant at the bigger wars and pay the merchant fee on top of your site fee. For the specific rules you can see: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1HTn_s_8DvFwG1hBEW-DLXdYdaFrDfieMs3AFmP1TcIA/viewform?c=0&w=1 (applications are being taken now)
I'm not sure how War of the Rams handles their merchants since they are kind of in that in between phase.
Some things to consider about merchanting:
- It will take up a lot of your event time. You will need to be in your booth or have it supervised during open hours which limits your ability to get around the event
- It makes it easy for all your friends to find you and come hang out with you!
- You need to do all the things a regular business does regarding taxes. I'm not sure what that means in Texas, but we collect taxes on behalf of the Mississippi for the Gulf Wars merchants who don't have a license in Mississippi. This saves them a lot of hassle.
Also, I know Pennsic requires minimum liability insurance. I don't believe that is required at local events.
From the fb "SCA Leather Workers" group:
Ryan McEwen
10/7/18
So. I had a really interesting conversation at work yesterday with several customers.
The topic was the sale price of leather goods and the hobbyist vs the full time professional.
The hobbyist can afford to give their time away for free. Making items that they may not even recoup the cost of materials from. Vs the professional who charges a living wage for their goods.
One of my coworkers felt that one has no effect on the other. Whereas 2 of the customers we were talking with felt that the hobbyist devalues the craft and lowers the value of the market by giving their work away cheaply.
It has been said many times before in my hearing that there is no market for people to make money within the SCA as a leather worker. I have to consider this question. Is it because of the massive number of hobbyists making leather goods? Or is there another reason?
I think personally there is truth to the theory. But I equally think that Largesse in the SCA should never be criticized.
If someone wishes to gift a pair of shoes to someone in the SCA then that is more then good. It is at the heart of one of the main reasons I love the society. The generosity.
But where does that leave the shoemaker who wishes to make a living selling his wares?
It's a question I don't think there is an easy answer to.
I would really value the opinions of both sides of this issue.
Where do you stand?
Amy DolphinAmy
I'm ok with the hobbyists, I just can't compete with China so I have to do specialty stuff (personalized) and that unfortunately will cost more than many can afford. That's when I'll look at bartering.
Michelle Kelley
It’s the same as anything. They do hurt business, but you can make a living at leatherwork. It is the Chinese and India you have to worry about hurting prices.
We have this issue all the time with freelance design work. People balk at the cost of pro work until they get that cheap labor version that isn’t sustainable.
Diane Dooley
The people who commission me are friends. I have a hard time charging them what I know I'm worth.
Jaqueline Lefleur
A slightly different perspective comes from looking at the purpose of the hobbyist. If it is someone who would make things anyway, to learn, to explore, and simply for the joy in the crafting, then selling the completed wares for a price that covers their materials cost is good enough to let them continue. They also get a happy customer in the process.
Those pieces are not made on production-level basis, however, and making big orders (i.e.: I'd like a half dozen arrows for my club for spring) is often difficult or the timelines cannot be met.
Also, professionals often have tools and techniques that reduce the time it takes to make the end product. So even if they and the hobbyist had the same price, the professional would make more because they take less time. I know someone who can bang out arrows at a dozen an hour.
The hobbyists I know who do high-quality custom work charge rates that are not too far off of professionals. And I am happy to pay it.
Faye C. Booker
2:44pm Oct 7
The hobbyist giving away his crafts for free is likely to get other things back: other crafts, meals, songs, teachings... that a professional will not get (or want), because he gets paid. In the hobby group we buy the material because we love creating certain things, or because we found a cool hide on sale... or somebody who knows what we make gifted it to us... And the creations are used and loved within that very group. The value of love cannot be expressed in money, so we ask none rather than little.
The professional cannot do that, as he has a standard to keep up and he buys tools and material and all upfront to start his business, which he needs to recover in the sale. And there are many who prefer to hire a professional at an agreed-upon price because they feel that what they have to give back may not be adequate to the value for a cool item...
There really is a place for both and I don't think somebody making useful things to gift to others puts any professional out of a job, because those receiving the gift are often not financially able to buy the professional item, since they give away their songs or feasts for free.
Craig Apelt
2:46pm Oct 7
As someone that had a shoe repair business in an actual shop for years before being medically retired, I was lucky that my passion for leathercraft managed to line up with an actual occupation that supported and encouraged it. As far as it goes, there is always the debate of price versus quality. It was one that I faced with the $10 cheapies you could buy, and all you can do is let them know what can go wrong with the other cheaper product and hope they see the value of your words. Unless they were the proverbial penny-pinchers, they would usually understand the longevity you can achieve with quality work and products over the cheaper things.
Doug Adair
2:50pm Oct 7
If you are a professional, your work speaks for itself. If you have the tools to be a professional, then your production is more sincere than a hobbyist. Where that hobbyist may produce one item that takes them a month, as a professional, with professional experience, skills, and tools, you will have no issue making something of similar or better quality in a fraction of the time. 5 sincere and professional items to 1 from a hobbyist. Both are amazing, both have soul and work put into them, just the professional has thousands of hours more experience, and that is why the price.
I am not a professional, I have many many more thousands of hours to go and am missing many specific tools and techniques. I am not a hobbyist, I have 10's of thousands of dollars of tools and many thousands of hours of experience.
I have shared much of my techniques and sources through mentoring and have had folks go on to have successful businesses from that foundation. I see it as a mark of pride, not contention. Competition is healthy, learn from the hobbyist, see something different, learn from your peers and professionals, their innovations only but grow us all.
Share, learn, and grow. A hobbyist in a hobby like the SCA is doing it from passion for a hobby. Teach and learn with each other in a wonderful hobby! If you want professional sales, then hit up the markets, the conventions, the internet, the wider public base that is looking for goods outside of a hobby environment. Hit specific large events within your hobby, but to expect a living from you local niche local market is a bit much. Thankfully the markets are huge; we have a wonder circuit of events and groups in North America and the internet is an amazing tool.
tl;dr: hobbyists aren't competition. If anything, they help grow interest and the market. Pay attention to them, perhaps they are doing something new or interesting that may grow your own business ;)
Kenneth O'Neal
3:03pm Oct 7
A lot of issues I have found are the hobbiest doesn't mark the time it takes to make an item, how to work up the overall cost (time$, materials$, and maybe a little profit), don't know how to value their skill. Other factors are the "I can make that, but don't because the amount of material you have to buy to make the item, lack of time, or overestimate their skill. I once merchanted an event and didn't sell anything. A few years latter I had someone track me down and bought 3 pouches. He told me he looked at Hoggetowne Faire in Gainesville, FL and found pouches that cost more and lessor quality. The last issue is that many people in the SCA have little discretionary money.
Timothy Park
7:33pm Oct 7
I run into the quandary constantly with a variety of crafts. Anymore I just raise the price until it sells.
And now and again I will give away some expensive work because I've heard too many times that they'll stick with the foreign made thing.
"I would have bought it for $20!" they say.
"I'd rather give it to so and so who will value it as a gift, and who needs it before I take $20 from you for $150 of work."
The numbers may vary, but I've had that dialog more than once.
Or I forge a knife and craft a sheath, but the haggling starts and I realize they think they're only buying the knife. "It's just a sheath ...."
Thankfully I have not had to rely on my craft as my main income, and I've stuck to a style of sales I learned in the tech world. A salesman I worked with almost never discounted the product and would actually have customers call and ask if there was anything to buy. He also invested a lot of time and more in his early career educating his customers and developing a reputation for honest sales. Literally "You need to prove to me that you should be my customer."
I show my customers what goes into my work. I even teach them how to do it. In the end it pays off. Three sales just this year the checks I've gotten have been sometimes 50% over what I asked for. "You charge too little, here."
Nathan Crocker
11:19pm Oct 7
You also have to look at what is being produced. The professional will be producing goods for ordinary people with latest styles they want to sell their stuff to a broad audience. The hobbyist is selling into a niche market, customs items. Take a Gorget as an example the professional probably won't make this item for there is no broad appeal. Not saying he couldn't make one but the market is to small. The hobbyists will gladly make a Gorget and fill the small market. Now you are saying what about merchants in the SCA ? Merchants fill that role between hobbyist who do one off stuff and the professional who is making stuff to support his family. The merchants hopefully can produce enough goods sell them to those people who don't want to spend the time and energy learning to make the item in question but would like the item.
Hrafn Tyrsson
12:50pm Oct 8
I see both sides of this, for my wife and I often have to have this discussion with customers. Even as a part-time crafter or hobbyist you should consider the costs of your time and replacement costs of materials for items you "sell". By not doing so you are doing a bit of a disservice to yourself and other crafters who are trying to eek out part-time or full-time "work". That is not to say you shouldn't give things away for free. We often do. Whether it's a "bonus" to a large sale, someone who just "needs" something to bring a smile or a charity trying to raise funds. Of course this doesn't include the normal gifts for birthdays, etc... Just my thoughts on it though. Enjoy the day all.
From the fb "Ask the Laurels" group:
Heather Rocchi
October 22 at 2:16 PM
Tell me your thoughts on merchanting.
Cynthia 'Celine' Harris
Any merchant striving for authenticity is fabulous?
Larissa Alwynn Clarewoode
Have a place fo shoppers to sit an visit and admire your wares.
Jean Elizabeth Krevor
Larissa Alwynn Clarewoode but please be understanding when a merchant is working and needs to help *all* their customers. I tell my friends that when I'm running my shop is a great time to catch me in one place and say hi and maybe make plans for later, but a terrible time to actually visit. We're making a living, and have to be able to help everyone.
The best kinds of client/friends are those who understand that, and sit back while we make the faster sale and browse while our friends are making their bread and butter. We'll be delighted to lavish the rest of our attention on you.
Larissa Alwynn Clarewoode
Jean Elizabeth Krevor you missed my meaning. Let's use Drix as an example. He has a couple stools for customers and friends. The longer a customer stays in your tent the longer they have to admire what you have. When I occasionally merchant and it's been a bit, I put a tea table and a few chairs. Shoppers visit with each other, draw their friends in. Trust me it works well.
Heather Rocchi
I ask because many merchants have told me they felt ostracized, yet I have never encountered this.
Eowyn de Wever
I think I can understand that ... as a merchant it's often hard to be *involved* in events while simultaneously tied to a fixed locale.
Sarre Greyhand
That, and you do get looked down on in some areas for "trying to make money off the SCA"
Richard Lobinske
I had fun the years I was a merchant. Granted, I was limited at times to what I could do while keeping the table attended, but I regularly had a stream of friendly folks stopping by to look and talk. I had the chance to make some great custom items and overall, it was a positive. Changing mundane time restraints is what caused me to stop.
Victor Hildebrand, OL, Trimaris
Margarita Rankin
The SCA maintains a culture of giving freely of our talents, and the moment someone requests compensation (most, if not all times, well deserved) another might feel that it shouldn't be so; you are either a SCAdian who gives freely, or a merchant who sells for a fee. I find that mentality off putting. Now add to that the way that we are used to mundanely shop, without understanding fully how compensation for hours and materials for an artisanal item works, and you end up with people who not only are against the fact that SCAdians merchant, but that they dare to ask what they think their labor is worth, which is many times what one would pay for a mass produced item. It gets even funnier when we're talking about non tangible items.--Margreþa, OL, East
Heather Rocchi
A friend was busking with a hat out; a Laurel scolded him for it, saying "you should be giving to the society" rhetoric.
He pointed to the armorer's tent behind him. "Should [the armorer] be giving his wares?"
"That's different, that's work" the Laurel said.
Margarita Rankin
That's outrageous. I have busked at Pennsic and will busk again. That Laurel lacks in more ways than I can think of and I'd love to have a very firm yet civil conversation with them.
Ted Kocot
As a laurel, as a candidate, or what?
Every so often I'll see someone bring up a candidate and cite the things they're merchanting, when said things may, or may not be particularly medieval, and may, or may not be entirely the product of industrial age technology.
I get that some of our candidates merchant at SF cons and Ren Faires and so some of their goods may not be particularly authentic. That doesn't bother me too much. (Depending on what they decide to put on their table at SCA events and how they market it - I mean yesterday I was drinking out of a cup that said "Evil Overlaurel but I'm wasn't going to tell anyone how authentic it was.).
There's something laudable about creating things that make our in-game moments look / feel more authentic even if the means by which those things are produced would not be familiar to our honourable ancestors, but I'm unlikely to support your elevation if EVERYTHING you do is like that.
So I don't think it counts against you (at least among anyone whose opinion I value) but just because you make and sell stuff at an SCA event doesn't mean you are on the path.
Jessica Schmidt
I’ll be honest, my booth is a hodgepodge of authenticity and modern but my laurel knows my actual work and it is often separate.
My booth caters a lot to the kids and it’s a craft I love as much as I enjoy my sca craft. Does that make it less?
I ask that my booth pay for my hobby and help me achieve my sca dreams
Sarre Greyhand
I'm a merchant and a Laurel (had been a merchant for over a decade prior to being elevated for what we make and sell, and still merchanting). The fact that you sell your art/craft has no bearing on you skills/worthiness of being a peerage. There are plenty of good and bad artisans who are, independently or that, good or bad merchants. That said, anyone (no matter how skilled) who defrauds customers is lacking in PLQs. One who merchants may have more opportunities to hone their craft, but they still have to put in the effort to improve.
Jack Strauss
Historically if you were an artisan you would try to sell your stuff. Something about being able to make a living and survive. Inevitably, when you hit the gray areas that we don't understand because they weren't written down if you are selling your wares you are more likely to make the same sort of choices that an artist would have made back then and you will be more authentic.
So the act of putting your wares up for sale creates a more authentic experience for everyone else then if you simply entered it in a 4H contest which is basically what the arts and science fairs are.
Antonia Deb Keller
I'm a merchant and I sell soap, nalbound items and inkle woven trim. I have not felt ostracized, although I know I can't be as involved as I'd like either. I recently added a shadefly to my merchant tent where I can teach the skills needed to make the items I sell.....because honestly, anyone motivated enough to learn to do it themselves isn't going to buy from me and I love to teach. Some people find out what is involved in making the items and pay me more than I'm asking for! I am also fortunate in that my husband enjoys watching the shop while I can do other stuff, like helping in our soup kitchen, cooking feasts, etc.
Kateryne Hindscroft
My husband is a laurel and a merchant. There have often been complaints by merchants that they get ignored when it comes to attention from laurels. But what I've found (from spending a *lot* of time around the merchants) is that too many of them don't bother to do period work or explain things when they *do* period work.
Being a merchant is a rich opportunity to be a teacher of historic information. You can do a sale without saying a word if you have your documentation available for people to see.
Have a doobus that is based on a period style? Post the inspiration next to the item.
Use a period technique that actually works better than modern ones? Mention it while you're in the process of a sale and have an article handy for people who want to learn more.
Do you make period items that might be commissioned? Have a binder for people to look through that shows the period item and examples of work you've done.
Sure, you're probably still going to have people who want to buy the non-period stuff or want you to include fantasy/non-historic things in your commissions. But that doesn't mean you won't attract people who *do* want the historically inspired items and only bought the other things because that's all they could find.
Kat MacLochlainn
1:12pm Oct 23
I've been making things for three decades now and I've yet to sell even one piece of my work (jewelry or scribal). However... as a jewelry maker, I must often ask people to pay for materials. Especially when their taste is real silver or real gemstones.
However, I completely support merchant artisans. Their efforts make it possible for everyone to have really nice cool things. I mean... if people were stuck coming to someone like me for a coronet - someone who has limited free time to make things - there'd be a lot of coronet-less heads out there at events.
That said... I don't really appreciate hearing SCA merchants say they can't or won't give their time, effort or art to the SCA because they *must always be paid* for their work. I feel the same way about artisans who aren't merchants if they have that philosophy. (For what it's worth, I don't actually *know* any merchants who are this purely self-serving. And I know some really talented merchants...).
Generosity and giving is at the heart of our game... and you know... I work 40-50 hours a week at my (nonSCA) job and then I spend 20 more hours making beautiful things for, say, the Crown because they need a thing. Sometimes I use vacation days to finish projects with approaching deadlines. That is actual money out of my own pocket.
Service types give countless hours outside their mundane job to work on just about everything they do for the SCA. Fighter types, too, are known for helping people make armor and weapons, then teaching what they know at practices - all after working 40 hour a week jobs.
I don't expect less from those who make a living making things to sell to SCA people. Especially if they are - or want to be - peers of the society.
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