swordcare-msg - 10/23/05 Comments on the care of steel swords. NOTE: See also the files: swords-msg, Swords-bib, metalworking-msg, metalworking-FAQ, swordsmiths-msg, bladesmithing-msg, metals-msg, charcoal-msg, scabbards-msg, knife-sheaths-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: jbeltzner at TrentU.CA Subject: Re: The care and feeding of swords Organization: Trent University, Peterborough Date: Thu, 13 Jan 1994 05:28:26 GMT Justin writes: > I apologize as this is somewhat off topic. Lately I >have been considering buying a sword from Museum Replicas (the >Irish bent crossguard sword) and was hoping one or more of you >good people could give me some pointers on the proper care >of such a beast. > > Museum Replicas sells two items they say are good for >this purose. One, an oil or solvent impregnated cloth called >"Tuf-Cloth" for $8.95 and a paste called "Metal Glo" for $7.99. >Does anyone have any experience with either of these products? >Are there better/more suitable products around? > > Any advice on this topic is greatly appreciated. As >this would seem to be rather off topic, email replies are >preferred. I'll summarize to the net if there is any interest. Friend Justin, I do not know if this is truly off-topic for the RIALTO... I personally have found that swords play a fairly significant part in the SCA, and I too would be interested in hearing suggestions for sword care methods. I currently care for my blade, a 5 foot claymore named Bob, by polishing his blade once a month with a compound known as autosol. I then use lemon oil on his wooden scabbard and hilt, and brasso on the brass pommel and handguard. If I am not going to be using the sword for a while, I then rub a bit of vaseline on the blade, as I find that to be oily enough to retard oxidization (rust). I've had no problems so far. Anyone else have any suggestions? In service, Malachai Shel Ha Cheitz Shavar Petrea Thule, Septentria, Ealdormere From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: The care and feeding of swords Date: 13 Jan 94 13:16:39 Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK. I'll vote for autosol, wonderful stuff, cheap and easy to get hold of. I clean the blade with autosol, and use the same stuff on the pommel and cross gaurd. Then it lives in a scabbard lined with sheepskin. Occasionally I oil the scabbard, (I know it's not in the least bit period but the oil is wd40). I suppose a scabbard wouldn't be much good if you want the weapon to hang on the wall. I also use a hammer to bash the nicks out of the edge of my sword as it's a combat weapon. Most people file nicks out, but I've found a hammer is quicker, and leaves you a better edge. I suppose there might be some work hardening involved. (Again I suppose that's irrelevant if you're talking about a display weapon). My helmet doesn't get the regular care my sword does, so occasionally it goes a bit rusty. I clean the rust off with a coarse rubber which is sold by electronics shops for cleaning laquer and marker pens off PCBs. Then I spray a coat of clear laquer on it, the stuff I use is sold by the same electronics shops for protecting PCBs. It makes a thin invisible layer which wears off eventually, but it usually lasts a year of hard use, and is completely invisible apart from slightly dulling the shine on highly polished parts. Jennifer Vanaheim Vikings From: fnklshtn at ACFcluster.NYU.EDU Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: The care and feeding of swords Date: 13 Jan 1994 17:06:24 GMT Organization: New York University, NY, NY jlkim at netcom.com (Justin Kim) writes: > I apologize as this is somewhat off topic. Lately I >have been considering buying a sword from Museum Replicas (the >Irish bent crossguard sword) and was hoping one or more of you >good people could give me some pointers on the proper care >of such a beast. > > Museum Replicas sells two items they say are good for >this purose. One, an oil or solvent impregnated cloth called >"Tuf-Cloth" for $8.95 and a paste called "Metal Glo" for $7.99. >Does anyone have any experience with either of these products? >Are there better/more suitable products around? They're ripping you. Get some motor oil and a rag and you're set! (at least that's the opinion handed down to me by my master.) Nahum (aprentice armourer) From: waltern at thoreau.rand.org (Walter Nelson) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: The care and feeding of swords Date: 14 Jan 1994 17:14:37 GMT Organization: RAND Corporation Justin Kim (jlkim at netcom.com) wrote: : I apologize as this is somewhat off topic. Lately I : have been considering buying a sword from Museum Replicas (the : Irish bent crossguard sword) and was hoping one or more of you : good people could give me some pointers on the proper care : of such a beast. I think the jist of all this is that caring for a sword is really no big deal. A polished steel surface like a blade resists rusting, unless it is subjected to moisture or acids (unpolished surfaces rust with no outside encouragement). Keep the blade oiled (and any number of oils will work), and NEVER touch the blade with your hand. Before I became a sword owner myself, I found the fuss sword owners would make about this rather annoying, and, I thought, exaggerated. Then I got a sword, held the blade in my sweaty hands, and a few days later, there was my fingerprint, etched into the blade. Now, I too am one of those fussy sword-twits who jump up and down when someone touches my blade. Walter Nelson From: prrthead at unm.edu (Tassach MacTearlach) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: The care and feeding of swords Date: 14 Jan 1994 14:39:22 -0700 Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque jlkim at netcom.com (Justin Kim) writes: > I apologize as this is somewhat off topic. Lately I >have been considering buying a sword from Museum Replicas (the >Irish bent crossguard sword) and was hoping one or more of you >good people could give me some pointers on the proper care >of such a beast. Personally, I prefer gun oil (or any other light machine oil) Motor oil is a bit heavy for my tastes. Gun oil protects my guns quite nicely from rust, and does the same for my blades. -- Amiga /// "Yield to temptation; it may not pass void school(double money){ /// your way again" - Robert A. Heinlein while (!graduated()){ \\\/// "Strange situations, wild occupations, --hair; \XX/ 1200 living my life like a song" J. Buffett debt += alot; } } From: PHILSCHERER at delphi.com Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: The care and feeding of swords Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 19:01:27 EST Hi Justin--When I got my sword from MR I worked it over with some auto polishing compound and then used the best car wax I had. Somewhat mundane but seems to work. I don't imagine that anything in the original days of chivalry was as water repellant. From: J.A.Bray at bnr.co.uk (1/17/94) To: markh at khyber RE>The care and feeding of I've never heard of Armorall, but WD40 is one of my favourite substances. It gets squirted on everything from the diesel engine of my van to my boyfriends scramasax scabbard when the scram rusted in place. I'm sure I couldn't survive in past times if I wasn't allowed to take an aerosol can of wd40 with me! Autosol comes in a tube with a consistency similar to toothpaste maybe a bit thinner. Over here in the U.K. you get it from shops that stock stuff for care and repair of cars. Jennifer From: WALKERMM at delphi.com Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: The care and feeding of swords Date: Thu, 20 Jan 94 23:29:14 EST Ha for the best stuff you need to go with what the japanies would use, and the traditional peserivitave is cammella oil. I got mine from a fine wood working store that carries a lot of chissiles. signed Christian form Essex (someone who makes knife parts) From: orlanth at illuminati.io.com (Bryan John Maloney) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: The care and feeding of swords Date: 24 Jan 1994 09:59:03 -0600 A few notes on metal care: 1: if you have a scabbard wherein metal touches metal do not store your sword in the scabbard--amalgams may form with unfortunate results. 2: There are a lot of modern alternatives to the old and often hard to find exotic oils. My own favorite is a museum preservation wax that can be had from Museum Replicas. 3: If it gets dirty or wet--clean it immediately and wax or oil it soon after. From: jyeates at bga.com (J'lynn Yeates) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Sharpening swords Date: 4 Apr 1995 13:48:00 GMT Organization: Texas Department of Health > I have a few swords, and I keep them purposely chisel-edged (not >sharp) because I know if they *were* sharp, I'd wind up hurting myself >eventually. (Right, Sir Edward?) from a technical / historical perspective ... type of edge really depends on style of blade ... for a heavy, western sword that relies on mass (and less refined metallurgy), a "chisel" edge is probably best. less prone to nicking and curling over ... for a eastern style blade that relies on the "slash" and is built with improved metal techniques (pattern welding of steels of various properties) a finer edge is in order. smaller blades (daggers, knives, etc), in my opinion should always be kept *sharp* lest you injure yourself with a blade that slips when it shouuld bite. same is especially true of working axes ... i've seen way too many foot/leg injuries that were caused by a dull axe deflecting away from the work due to dullness. 'wolf ... who usually has a couple of stones close to hand - sharpening steel is a excellent meditation. From: mjodalfr Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Sharpening swords Date: 5 Apr 1995 00:30:52 GMT Organization: New Mexico Internet Access > Again please define your use of "chisel", I don't remember ever seeing > a blade in a museum that had the "chisel" geometry and while I commonly > go to a surgical black arkansas stone for chisels, I stop with the fine > arkansas stone for european swords. The old norse, sax and langsax both had chisel edges. i.e. / / / ------ Wassail, MjodalfR Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: A couple of EASY questions about swords.. From: una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honour Horne-Jaruk) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 95 21:37:00 EST schuldy at abel.harvard.edu (Mark Schuldenfrei) writes: > IainRanock wrote: > The best thing for feast knives is to clean them throughly, as quickly as > possible. Then I rub mine down using a rag, or paper towel, with just a > very small amount of vegitable oil on it. This prevents any rusting > between feasts, and cleans off easily before eating. > > Try mineral oil. Non-toxic (sometimes prescribed orally) and it has no > nutritive value, and therefore cannot go rancid. > > Tibor > -- > Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy at math.harvard.edu) Respected friend: (Honour puts on her Certified Nurses' Aide hat... here, sappy!) While you are correct in part, you are incorrect in part- and it's a very important part. _In the concentrations involved in oiling a knife blade_, mineral oil is not _usually_ toxic to _normally healthy_ people. It is, however, both a bar to the absorbtion of may critical vitamins and minerals, and a "preferential" suspension medium (Meaning it both absorbs them well and transfers them readily) for some thoroughly unpleasant toxins (especially certain mineral salts). Thus, a clumsy or careless knife-polisher could bind polish ingredients into the mineral oil, which would then be transferred to the user's mouth in near-tasteless suspension. Although the quantity involved would not be outright poisonous, trying to drive home with that level of bellyache has its own dangers... The AMA has oficially come out against the once-universal practice of using mineral oil in salad bowls for these very reasons. This is also the reason why it has become very, very rare as a prescribed vermifuge/laxative. Ill-informed people still regularly develop deficiency diseases from prolongued ingestion of mineral oil. Therefore, while people who never polish an eating knife can get away with using mineral oil as a rust-preventive, I really don't recommend it; and if it is used, _please_ remember to whipe the blade on clean cloth before each and every use. Honour, known societally as Alizaunde, Demoiselle de Bregeuf; or Una Wicca (That Pict) Subject: Re: ANST - Care of a fine Sword (long) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 19:15:38 -0800 From: The Dudleys To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org Lady Neeve Drakesbane wrote: > Last year at Gulf Wars my lord purchased a > magnificant sword made by Little John with a double > wolf head handle on bone. Due to circumstances beyond > his control, the sword suffered some neglect and is in > need of cleaning and maintenance. We are in Meridies > now in the panhandle of Florida and have not got a > clue as to what to use or where to get it to help > restore and maintain this awesome piece. All help in > this matter will be greatly appreciated. > > Lady Neeve Greetings, Lady Neeve: Was it the bone or the steel that was damaged? Unfortunately I know little about bone. About steel, however, my lord husband and I do know a bit. Flitz or Simichrome are good if the rust is not too deep - Simichrome aka Honda Polish is available at auto/motorcycle supply shops; Flitz is *theoretically* (I haven't found it lately) available at Ace Hardware. If the rust is really bad, try Naval Jelly. (Test on a small spot first.) As a general rule, start with the least abrasive and work up to see how much abrasiveness is needed. Once the rust is removed, reverse the process and go to finer and finer polishes. Rubbing compound, used to rub out automotive paint finishes, would also be good, and comes in several grits. Scotchbrite works also, comes in several different abrasive levels and is available at auto supply stores that carry auto paints. If you use something quite aggressive, for example steel wool, Scotchbrite, or emery cloth, expect to have to re-polish the whole blade using progressively finer levels of abrasiveness. Alcohol may not take off all the oil; if it won't, try (carefully!! With good ventilation and no sparks!!) a solvent such as lacquer thinner. If you use wax to preserve the blade for storage, first make sure it is COMPLETELY dry. Wax will trap any moisture underneath it, which of course equals rust. Try liquifying any paste wax so that it fills the pores. My lord and I have worked as swordsellers for Angelsword Forge (hand-forged knives, swords, and weapons of mayhem) at two Renaissance Faires, and this is what Angelsword's Master Smith, Daniel Watson, recommends for the care of his blades to anyone purchasing one: Oil the blade once a month; this will eventually render the sheath almost self-oiling. Don't store it for long periods in a leather sheath; leather absorbs moisture from the air, and will transfer it to the blade. Use motor oil (yes, really! that's what he uses on all his blades in storage and at the forge - antiques included) to oil the blade - he recommends 30-weight; my lord (a gearhead from 'way back) prefers lighter, 5-w-10 or 5-w-15, as it absorbs into the pores of the steel better, and adsorbs onto the surface. Motor oil additives are there to help it fill pores in steel and exclude moisture; same principle on a blade. Master Daniel's storage recommendation is to oil the blade well then wrap in a clean piece of white cotton (not a poly blend) such as an old t-shirt. He did once stress that both the white color and the pure cotton are important. (Why? He didn't say. Cynan's guess is that some dyes are corrosive.) Renaissance Faires are by nature high-moisture environments, especially near the Gulf, and the motor oil has proven the best rust-fighter available. The fine oils sold in tiny vials are good but not necessary - they include clove oil and camellia oil, which Angelsword sold. We use motor oil on our personal blades. For sharpening, Angelsword uses a series of progressively finer polishing compounds on cloth wheels, which gives a very fine edge. For re-sharpening, Angelsword recommends the polishing process, but an Arkansas stone or fine martial arts stone is recommended for sharpening your own blades. Finish with a high-quality sharpening steel, such as used to come with good (read expensive) table carving sets. Master Daniel recommends furniture wax for wooden grips. We have seen a great deal of motor oil on fine hardwood and bone grips, and not seen any damage to either. I hope this helps! Gillian nic Callum & Cynan ap Rhun ap Morgan Edited by Mark S. Harris swordcare-msg Page 8 of 8