shields-msg - 1/15/08 SCA and period shields. NOTE: See also the files: rattan-msg, tournaments-msg, melee-tactics-art, armor-msg, p-armor-msg, swords-msg, axes-msg, Shield-Balanc-art, W-T-Shields-art, Sword-Fighting-art, wood-bending-msg, wood-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: whheydt at pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Shield construction Date: 13 Apr 93 18:10:00 GMT Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA parr at acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes: >Currently my shields, while durable and (if I do say so myself) >very attractive, weigh 15-16lbs. Since period heaters are >estimated (accounting for centuries of drying out) to have >weighed 8-9lbs at the most, I would dearly like to make something >attractive, period, and *light*. Get to a local lumber yard and buy some Linden. It's remarkably light, tough.... and period. --Hal Hal Ravn, West Kingdom Wilson H. Heydt, Jr., Albany, CA 94706, 510/524-8321 (home) -- Hal Heydt | Analyst, Pacific*Bell | If you think the system is working, 510-823-5447 | Ask someone who's waiting for a prompt. whheydt at pbhya.PacBell.COM | From: 00mjstum at leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (Matthew J. Stum) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Shield construction Date: 13 Apr 93 20:15:49 GMT parr at acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes: > Currently my shields, while durable and (if I do say so myself) > very attractive, weigh 15-16lbs. Since period heaters are > estimated (accounting for centuries of drying out) to have > weighed 8-9lbs at the most, I would dearly like to make something > attractive, period, and *light*. I've just started doing some research on the Viking center-grips and come up with some startling facts (to me, anyway). As you know, these were flat circular shields made by butting planks together and rimming the whole thing with either leather or metal. Three reenforcing bands were placed on the back to make them "legal" for war, according to some Norse Law that I can't finger off of the top of my head. What I _didn't_ realize is that they were "nearly a meter wide." Another source puts them at "30 to 40 inches in diameter". Yikes! My little 24" center-grip falls quite short. I wondered about the weight until I read that they were made of limewood (?) and only _one_fifth_ of an inch thick. The only other construction besides the shield boss, handle, three bands, and rimming was a coat of paint... usually red, black, yellow, or white (?)... and less often blue and green. (At least that's what memory tells me.) Oh, wait, let's not forget the shoulder strap that allowed them to carry the thing on their backs... I'd love to make one of these for an A&S competition, but I'd also like to _use_ it. I wonder about the durability, though... and if that was a purposeful design... -- Matt Stum Gwydion ap Myrddin Ball State University 00mjstum at bsuvc.bsu.edu Shire of Afonlyn, MK Muncie, IN USA Apr 21 15:53:38 CDT 1993 From: dgreen at athena (David Greenebaum) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Shield construction Date: 14 Apr 1993 16:51:36 GMT Hello from Bjalfi! Quoth Gwydion: >I've just started doing some research on the Viking center-grips and >come up with some startling facts (to me, anyway). As you know, these >were flat circular shields made by butting planks together and rimming >the whole thing with either leather or metal. Three reenforcing bands >were placed on the back to make them "legal" for war, according to >some Norse Law that I can't finger off of the top of my head. >What I _didn't_ realize is that they were "nearly a meter wide." >Another source puts them at "30 to 40 inches in diameter". Yikes! My >little 24" center-grip falls quite short. I wondered about the weight >until I read that they were made of limewood (?) and only _one_fifth_ >of an inch thick. >[deletion] >I'd love to make one of these for an A&S competition, but I'd also like >to _use_ it. I wonder about the durability, though... and if that was >a purposeful design... It was. The shields weren't meant to be all that durable--the sagas mention duels where the combattants go through three or four shields each. The advantage of having a thin limewood shield (limewood is also called linden, by the way) rimmed with leather, is that if your opponent's sword bites into the edge, you can twist the shield and disarm your opponent. Either you'll wrench the sword from his hand, or you might bend or break it. (Some of the swords Norsemen used were not all that high quality--there's a scene, I think it's in Laxdaela saga, where a man fighting off a bunch of attackers has to keep straightening his sword beneath his foot.) The shields were not much protection against spears or polearms; many is the description of a thrown spear piercing both shield and bearer, and pikes and halberds likewise. --------------------- Bjalfi Thordharson/College of St. Katherine/Province of |\ | |\ |\ |// | the Mists/Principality of the Mists/West Kingdom | > | |\\ | \ |/ | David Greenebaum/University of California/Berkeley, CA |< | | \ | | | dgreen at athena.berkeley.edu, dgreen at garnet.berkeley.edu | > | | | | | |/ | | | | | "I make mistakes, but I am on the side of good -- by --------------------- accident and happenchance." -- the Golux From: odlin at reed.edu (Iain Odlin) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Shield construction Date: 15 Apr 93 05:56:12 GMT Organization: The Stuffed Animal Trauma Team (We're Trained Professionals) dgreen at athena (David Greenebaum) writes: >the sagas mention duels where the combattants go through three or four shields >each. These were the "Holmgang"s. Ritual one-on-one combat. The breaking of the shields (held, apparently, by someone other than the combatant, unless I'm reading wrong...) was a step in the ritual, meant -- I'd guess -- to show how vigourous the fighters are. >(Some of the swords Norsemen used were not all that >high quality--there's a scene, I think it's in Laxdaela saga, where a >man fighting off a bunch of attackers has to keep straightening his >sword beneath his foot.) Laxdaela Saga, page 174 of the Magnusson and Palsson translation: "Kjartan's blows were hard but his sword was of little use, and he was always having to put it under his foot to straighten it." Good memory. ------------------------- Iain Odlin, odlin at reed.edu ------------------------- 10 Crosby Street, Level 3, Portland ME 04103 --------- "Uncertainty is the normal state. You're nobody special." --------- From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Viking shield boss construction Date: 5 May 93 11:30:10 Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK. As far as I know the Vikings did just beat shield bosses out. I suppose with practice you get to be a lot better at metal bashing and deeper bosses become more of a practical option. I have seen a tiny but deep boss in Liverpool Museum that had a curve like a tennis ball but showed no signs of a seam anywhere. I don't know how soft and malleable the metal was that it was formed from, but when I have seen craftsmen beating out shield bosses by hand they prefer to have a fire handy and spend more time throwing the bosses in the fire to get rid of the tempering than they do actually hitting the things. Apparently you work harden the metal as you bash it into shape, so you have to constantly re-soften it I am in a Viking reenactment society and we tend to cheat and use spun or pressed steel bosses which are mass produced in various patterns. (One trader persuaded a car plant to produce some using the steel cases intended for the back of the car's headlights, if they left out the hole for the bulb they were perfect!) Spun bosses aren't as good as the pressed ones because you have to get rid of the spinning marks which show up as a mass of concentric rings. Jennifer Vanaheim Vikings Fri May 21 10:18:36 CDT 1993 Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman) Subject: Shields, Visitors, Norms or Exceptions (cooking) Organization: University of Chicago Date: Thu, 20 May 1993 03:56:16 GMT Shields Someone who was asking about Turkish shields also asked about how to make a concave/convex round shield. One way is to start with a metal disk (I used the lid from a metal drum, I presume originally intended for storing something). Procure a ball peen hammer, a pair of earplugs, and something you can rest the disk on. I think I used a garbage can or equivalent to support it around the edge, but I suspect one could also use an ordinary anvil under where you were pounding. You start at the center and pound the metal in a tight spiral. This stretches the metal, making it bulge out. Eventually you have a convex round shield to play with for a while and eventually give to your Norse blood brother; I don't know if Asbjorn still has it or not. Tuomas Viljanen mentions the Adarga. Somewhere I read a discussion of what it was made of. As I remember, it was the hide of a specific animal, possibly a variety of antelope. The question was of interest because the Adarga was supposedly famous for being a very light, strong shield. David/Cariadoc From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Homemade rivets? Date: 31 Aug 93 15:42:58 Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK. I fight with a viking centre grip shield. The boss is held in place with "rivets" they are made from coach bolts. The front of the shield has the bolt head which is a nice domed shape. Mine came with the makers name cast on the surface, but a few whacks with a lump hammer fixed that! I saw an original viking shield boss a couple of years ago whilst helping out with an exhibition. the rivets were round headed and domed and looked just like a coach bolt head, so I don't see why you shouldn't "fake it and use bolts" just use the right sort and leave off the nuts like I did. To use as a rivet saw the bolt to the required length. I can't remember whether you soften it by heating 'till cherry red then cooling with a water quench or by letting it cool slowly, but I can remember heating it on the gas cooker 'till it was cherry red: I held it in a pair of bits of wood which got rather charred but didn't collapse. Your propane torch should do fine. When your coachbolt/rivet has been treated to soften it, cut a cross in the end with a hacksaw: this will make it a lot easier to start spreading the rivet. It doesn't need to be very deep: 1/8 of an inch will do, it's just enough to get it started. You need something solid underneath the rivet when you're hammering, bits of old engine make nice emergency anvils if you can't get a suitable lump of metal elsewhere. Make sure your handle isn't round in cross section. I've fought with these and you can't stop them flapping from side to side. They're fine in a shield wall, but once you're on your own you want more control. A squashed oval cross section is my favourite. Where the wood is cut away around the boss get a wood rasp and slope the edges: if you have a right angle cut it will clobber your wrist eventually. The best rim material I have found so far is rawhide. You get the doggy chews that are shaped sort of like a bone made out of rawhide knotted at both ends. Soak overnight in water to soften, unknot it and you have several rawhide strips per doggy chew. Whilst it is still soft nail over your shield rim using blued steel tacks. Stretch the rawhide as you nail it (this is important as it goes crinkly if you don't stretch it enough) The rawhide dries to a really tough protective edge. I have been fighting with a shield made of heavy duty marine plywood (13 ply) it is edged with doggy chews and has a steel boss. I have used the same shield for 5 years and last weekend for the first time one of the rawhide strips split after someone hooked an axe in it. This was a 2 handed axe and we had a tug of war with it hooked in my shield. The rawhide split slightly where the tip of the axe was hooked in it, but it didn't give up altogether. We fight with blunt metal weapons, so I would think the rawhide would hold up longer against rattan. I have tried out iron bound shield and I'm not convinced they are worth the effort. They are much heavier and the edging is lethal if it does come loose in a fight. Leather is not as tough as rawhide, and even veg. tanned leather isn't as stretchy when wet, so you always get a crinkly edge. You didn't mention painting it, but there's a report called three viking graves from the isle of man" by Bersu and Wilson which has a fragment of an original shield with the pattern still visible. If you want to talk any more about viking shields please email me. The society I am in usually fights with centre grip round shields, so if I can't answer any questions, I might be able to find someone who can. Jennifer Vanaheim Vikings (If you haven't figured it out from the stuff above, I'm not SCA but I was passing by the Rialto & thought I'd stop for a chat) From: harald at matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Harold Kraus Jr) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Homemade rivets? Date: 31 Aug 1993 12:36:22 -0500 Organization: Kansas State University The good Jennifer writes: >............................................................ >To use as a rivet saw the bolt to the required length. I can't >remember whether you soften it by heating 'till cherry red then >cooling with a water quench or by letting it cool slowly, but .... >.......................................................... For steel, it is cool slowly, allowing the iron crystals time to sort out their kinks and grow larger. For my part, I find that bolts mild (soft) enough to cut with a hacksaw are mild enough to peen into a rivet head. Make sure you peen your rivet over a closely fitting a rivet. Harald Isenross, Spinning Winds, Calontir, harald at matt.ksu.ksu.edu Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: joakimr at ifi.uio.no (Joakim Ruud) Subject: Re: Homemade rivets? Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 07:15:50 GMT > I saw an original viking shield boss a couple of years ago whilst > helping out with an exhibition. the rivets were round headed and domed > and looked just like a coach bolt head, so I don't see why you > shouldn't "fake it and use bolts" just use the right sort and leave > off the nuts like I did. > To use as a rivet saw the bolt to the required length. I can't > remember whether you soften it by heating 'till cherry red then > cooling with a water quench or by letting it cool slowly, but I can > remember heating it on the gas cooker 'till it was cherry red: I held > it in a pair of bits of wood which got rather charred but didn't > collapse. Your propane torch should do fine. What's the point of going to all that trouble, when there are iron rivets available...? (at least here in Norway...) > When your coachbolt/rivet has been treated to soften it, cut a cross in > the end with a hacksaw: this will make it a lot easier to start > spreading the rivet. It doesn't need to be very deep: 1/8 of an inch > will do, it's just enough to get it started. > You need something solid underneath the rivet when you're hammering, > bits of old engine make nice emergency anvils if you can't get a > suitable lump of metal elsewhere. I find that riveting on a harder surface than the rivet itself causes the rivet head to be deformed. Use a surface of just the same hardness, or slightliy softer (thick copper or iron(soft)). This way, the rivet head will retain its dome-shape... Jokke From: jschmidt at oolong.Tymnet.COM (John Schmidt) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: The Shield Wall From Hell Date: 12 Nov 1993 21:26:53 GMT Organization: BT North America (Tymnet) In article <CGCFvA.7tq at acsu.buffalo.edu> v081lu33 at ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (Ken Mondschein) writes: > > I agree with the fellow who said something about halbreds: when faced >with a shield wall-attrition battle, it seems a valuable asset to be able to >hit around corners. Hmm. The strongest point for axes (pole, great or hand) is that you can pull the sheild around with them and also they give you a large head to attempt to block shots with. > One thing I've been meaning to try is a pavise: a late-period tower >shield-- completely impractical for singles combat, but a mini castle when >toted along. Of course, they'd have to be used en masse, but they'd make the >Calontir shield wall look like a speed bump... I would disagree, based on the pavise selection found in the Metropolitan Museum and also from the various Osprey books. The Calontiri shields are larger than most pavises except some used as light fortifications; very clearly it can be seen that the pavis was often strapped on the back, so it can't be much larger than a scutum. > Another idea I had was to put a kickstand on the shield, so that it >would stand up by itself. This way, you could leave it standing in the middle >of the field or block your rear with it (or put a dummy behind it and sneak >around in the woods battle, or block a pass through the trees :) ). Entirely period. You could also put a metal spike on the bottom point, or put in stakes. There are a number of these used in the West Kingdom, where missle troops are allowed to carry and place them. > Plus, you could velcro a buckler or small round to the back... Where it would fall off after the first hard blow. Just go ahead and strap it to your forearm. > Then again, maybe I have to repad my helmet... I think I have to wash my padding. > Tristan > John Theophilous From: shick at europa.eng.gtefsd.com (Steve Hick) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Two-pointed Shields: was Spear and Sword Date: 7 Dec 1993 21:25:54 GMT Organization: GTE GSC FSD In article <2e1237INNd08 at matt.ksu.ksu.edu>, harald at matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Harold Kraus Jr) wrote: > The good Tristan writes: > > [comments on spear and sword deleted] > > ..... Also, a shield with > >two sword points on it is documentable for Moorish Spain (the Palladium RPG > >arms and armor book, which is actually remarkable informative as a tertiary > >source). > > Other posters have noted in the Spear and Sword thread that the above > piece could be based on a misidentified piece in a Spanish museum (posibly > a madoo). > > The "Book of Fencing: Code de Gotha" by Hans Thalhofer, 1467, Bohemia, > has an illustration of "Fight with special shield, in the combat called > 'The Judgement of God'". (Millia Davenport, "The Book of Costume" > > The special shield is, basically, a "two-handed 'madoo'". > Picture a 5'6" ( at 2.6m) spear tipped at each end fixed to the > back of a 4'x2' shield with rounded of corners. On the vertical axis of > the shield is a 3' (1m) long shield boss that allows the user to grip > along that length of the spear shaft. Kind of a squared off Zulu shield. > Quite silly looking -- at best, I'd say it was a fad, limited > to the school or region, or a pudgil stick variation. > Sorry, I had been reading this, and didn't think of the kampfschild as germane. This is true, it is as described, often it has auxiliary points, barbs, blades, saw-tooth blades, etc.. It is used in judicial duels, and far from being obscure, it is referenced in most of the major Fechtbucher (German Fencing Manuals). Besides the 1467 Talhoffer, it appears in (from memory) the 1443 Talhoffer, Paulus Kal's Fechtbuch of the second half of the 15th C , Paulus Hector Meier's Fechtbuch of <1542, and several others. It is used in conjunction with the cudgel, sword(?) and alone. When used alone, it is used much like a polarm. In conjunction with other weapons, it seems to be used mostly as a shield. It appears in documentation from ca 1440 up to the end of the 16th c, not a passing fad. ST From: mike at aloysius.equinox.gen.nz (Mike Campbell) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Odd-shaped Turkish shields Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 23:20:00 GMT Organization: Me? Organized? A few weeks ago someone posted requesting info about an oddly shaped shield. I don't remember the text (sorry), but I hope the following helps: The shield shape was like this: /| / | __-- | | | | | | | | | |_______| "Renaissance Armies, 1420-1650" (2nd Ed), George Gush, Patrick Stephens (pubs), 1983, ISBN 0-85059-604-1: Three similar shields are shown as "typical turkish shields". No date is given. The three differ only in the shape of the bottom edge - 1 is straight as above, 1 is 1/2 round, and is a little longer overall than above, the third is peculiar, and I'll try to show it: | | \ / \ | \ \ \ / - ,it's supposed to look like the mirror image of a "," (comma), and is quite smoothly rounded, not like the ASCII! Hope this helps Thorfyrd Hakonson, Shire of Southron Gaard, Caid Mike Campbell, Christchurch, New Zealand mike at aloysius.equinox.gen.nz From: pyuaq at csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr G S Sutherland) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Leather armour questions Date: 17 Mar 1994 12:34:56 -0000 Organization: University of Warwick, Coventry, UK cav at bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin) writes: +u_gearman at mv3800.engr.scarolina.edu writes: [On topic questions deleted!] +|> 3) Unrelated question. Can round shields have a boss on them?? + + If we're talking early period Viking/Anglo-Saxon, etc., round shields usually + had some form of boss. At least that's been my impression. Early period shields (up until the twelfth century I think) often had bosses on. A Saxon/Viking/Whatever round shield always would have a boss since it was a center punch grip. Other shields would sometimes have a boss affixed, such as many of the kites on the Bayeaux tapestry. There were also two or variations on the round shield that you may be interested in. (1) The oval "poached egg" shield, which was a midway stage between the kite and the round shield. It was often curved in its cross section. (2) The lenticular shield, which was shaped like a watch glass. The curved cross section helped deflect axe blows. +|> Thanks in advance for any help that I get and can pass on. +|> +|> Rolland Steveneson + Cheers, Balderik Graeme. From: darrell.markewitz at ambassador.com (Darrell Markewitz) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Shield at Sutton Hoo Date: Mon, 26 Dec 1994 16:02:24 GMT Organization: AMBASSADOR BOARD (519) 925-2642 V.32 "The shield...survived only as a jumbled group of metal fittings associated with tiney scraps of the limewood and leather that once formed its massive board." From "the Sutton Hoo Ship Burial" bu Angela Care Evens - 1986 But i don't know enough about the various names proposed (Limewoos, linwood, basswood) to say if they are the same thing. Evens goes on to speculate that this shield was a presentation or cerimonial object (rather than combat) due to the number and fineness of the ornimental mounts. It also does not have an iron rim, and the use of soft wood would result in a short lived shield in actual combat*. The use of lighter wood is a good choice for a cerimaonial shield. More 9on this latter! Darrell/Sylard From: dnb105 at psu.edu (Ferret) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Shield at Sutton Hoo Date: Mon, 26 Dec 1994 17:45:01 GMT Organization: Penn State University In article <9412261206433947 at ambassador.com> darrell.markewitz at ambassador.com (Darrell Markewitz) writes: >Evens goes on to speculate that this shield was a presentation or >cerimonial object (rather than combat) due to the number and fineness of >the ornimental mounts. Gold leaf over plaster ornaments would not last long on a battle shield. It was believed that due to various repairs made to the shield prior to interment, it was an heirloom and much older than the burial. The ship itself was estimated to be very old due to the repairs that were evidenced on it as well, if true it would place the longship as possibly being condtructed in the 7th or even 6th century. The fact that the ship is klinker built and had four rigging mounts means that the only difference between it and 9th and 10th cent. "viking" ships is that the latter had a much more defined keel and not much else different. Ferret From: telkingt at alexandria.lib.utah.edu (Trevor Elkington) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: re: Shield at Sutton Hoo Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 14:49:14 GMT Organization: Marriott Library, University of Utah {Clip} Darrell writes about the shield at Sutton Hoo: Since I believe I may have been the one who started the shield-wood-type issue in the first place, I just wanted to thank somebody else for supporting my claim. This is not sour-grapes; my posting program seems to have a problem with following threads, so after I have written a long and eloquent defense/discussion of my point, the damn thing won't post. Got rather fed up and quit posting altogether. Anyway, I was in London this summer and saw the Sutton Hoo exhibit in first person. Stunning! And yes, the shield in question was re-constructed using "limewood" as stated in the little plaque before the piece. I didn't catch what the actual basis for what wood to use in the model was, but it does seem that there was some archaeological evidence for this type of wood. ---Thorstein Thorvaldsonnar ---The Viking Librarian Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: re: Shield at Sutton Hoo From: system at blah.bsu.edu () Date: Tue, 27 Dec 94 21:05:30 EST Organization: Ball State University At one time I did a fair amount of research into Viking shield construction, including wood types. I don't have the data in front of me, but yes, limewood was commonly used. If it is indeed related to what we call basswood here in the USA, then it was used because it is very tough and resistant to shock. On the flip-side, I seem to remember oak being used very rarely... it's strong, but it doesn't take shock very well...and it's _way_ too heavy. Another thing that I found surprising was the shield thickness... or rather, a lack thereof. Thickness of 5mm to 7mm was common and were usually tapered thinner towards the edge. My conclusions based on my brief research were that lightness counted, and shields were rebuilt often. Also, you probably could afford to lose a bit of your shield when you start out with 30" to 40" diameters. Plus, a sword or axe that gets stuck in your shield can then be wrenched from your opponent's hands. And lastly, I'm willing to bet that shield wielding techniques were different than ours in the SCA... we tend to let our indestructable shields meet the weapons head-on... I'd say that more of a sweeping motion was used to parry weapons by both shields and weapons. Gwydion, the Welsh Viking (sometimes) See "http://blah.bsuvc.bsu.edu/gwydion" for an explanation... -- Matt Stum Gwydion ap Myrddin Arglwydd Ball State University 00mjstum at bsuvc.bsu.edu Shire of Afonlyn, MK Muncie, IN USA Per bend sable and Or, a sun and decrescent counterchanged. Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: re: Sutton Hoo shield... From: system at blah.bsu.edu () Date: Thu, 5 Jan 95 15:14:49 EST Organization: Ball State University >While I don't know much about shot distribution (although I *will* ask around, >I do have a smidgen of information to contribute. Recently I was asked by a >fighter in our shire to define "Linden Wood", which I had only that week looked >up for someone here in this group. This sparked a somewhat lengthy discussion >among the fighters present about the uses of shields versus the weapons they >defend against. Linden wood is a very LIGHT wood, and I can't imagine that it >would last for too many battles before being "rent asunder". However, it is >possible that, like balsa, it could also grip a bladed weapon stuck into it. >Against an SCA weapon, it would be next to useless though, since SCA weapons, >no matter what they are protraying, are essentially mass weapons. I finally dug up my shield research (or part of it, anyway) and here might be something of interest. "Linden shields" or "linden boards" or "lindens" were mentioned in Beowulf, the Finnsburh Fragment, the Battle of Maldon, the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, and the Codex Exoniensis. Yet, according to a study of early anglo-saxon shields here is the distribution of wood types: type number ----------------- ------ alder 11 willow or poplar 11 maple 3 birch 2 ash 1 oak 1 lime (linden) 1 The theory is that lime may have only been available only in southern England at the time so it's appearance, or rather lack thereof, in the rather limited sample might not be so surprising. Also, according to the chart below, lime, alder, willow and poplar are all similar in terms of function and characteristics. type density weight of Toughness (Resistance Resistance to (lb/cu ft) shield(lbs) to a sudden load) splitting --------- ---------- ----------- --------------------- ------------- willow 27 5.4 129 390 poplar 27 5.4 90 260 alder 32 6.4 101 330 sycamore 35 7.0 102 420 lime 39 7.8 120 490 birch 41 8.2 198 480 ash 42 8.4 -- 620 oak 43 8.6 131 360 (weight of shield is based on a 0.5m diameter and 7mm thickness) (sycamore would not have been available, but it's included to simulate maple) Since most weapons of the time were not mass weapons (sword, axe, spear, arrow) I would think that resistance to splitting would be more important to sudden load. I'm not sure why both stats aren't provided for ash, so without that info it appears lime is a clear winner. Willow and sycamore/maple are good choices too. As mass weapons came into play, I would imagine oak and especially birch might come in handy. Also keep in mind that 3-ply plywood _did_ exist in some areas. It provided extra strength and made it easier to make the shields concave. (The viking shields were predominantly flat, but some of the earlier anglo-saxon and roman shields were curved.) Bibliography: Early Anglo-Saxon Shields Tania Dickinson, F.S.A. and Heinrick Harke Volume 110 of Archaeologia The Society of Antiquaries of London 1992 (This is an EXCELLENT source of detailed information about the construction and technology of early center-grip shields. While the title implies that the Vikings might be left out, samples from Sutton Hoo and Gokstad are included.) -- Matt Stum Gwydion ap Myrddin Arglwydd Ball State University 00mjstum at bsuvc.bsu.edu Shire of Afonlyn, MK Muncie, IN USA Per bend sable and Or, a sun and decrescent counterchanged. Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: gaummb at fnma.COM (Mario Butler) Subject: Re: kite shields Organization: Fannie Mae Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 13:51:57 GMT In article 2F0DEAC7 at courier.sscnet.ucla.edu, Valdez at polisci.sscnet.ucla.EDU (Valdez, Jonathan POLI SCI) writes: >Diarmuit Ui Dhunn recently discussed his research on bolt patterns on kite >shields and how to strap them. I wanted to suggest one possibility, but >annoyingly, can't remember where I saw the illustration (although I think it >was from a period source; perhaps the Bayeaux?). In any case, I remember >seeing a kite shield strapped so that the shield arm was held perpendicular >to the ground; it struck me that this might be a useful way to hold such a >shield. I don't know whether that would help explain bolt patterns, however. This is the way I had the straps on my kite. Loved the ease in which I could block swings. My next shield is gonna be like this, too. Mario From: LIB_IMC at vax1.utulsa.edu (I. Marc Carlson) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Shield Construction (was Re: Sutton Hoo...) Date: 9 Jan 1995 10:08:02 -0600 Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway I received an interesting set of questions, by private mail, to my comments on the shield I built, and since they were indicative of something missing from my earlier post, I decided to forward them and answer them here, in case anyone else was interested. Stefan li Rous <From: markh at sphinx.sps.mot.com (Mark Harris)> >>Personally, I just finished building a Norman style kite, built from oak planks, >>faced in leather and reinforced with rawhide... >How much did it wiegh!!! How thick were the oak planks? What are "the very >things that would make it useful versus real weapons" that "are likely to >act against it in SCA combat"? We haven't actually weighed the silly thing, but I'd estimate that it's about 15-20 pounds. The Planks are 3/4" and the whole thing is faced in 8 oz cow- hide. Primarily the "things" I was referring to with regard to "real" combat are its structural flexibility and its thickness/weight. If the shield were to be used against arrows, as well as real swords, axes, etc. (which are, relatively speaking, rather light compared to their SCA counterparts) it would be much more effective than if it were to be continually hammered on with a club (which is, in essence what a stick of rattan is). A temporarily displaced scholar, Diarmuit Ui Dhunn University of Northkeep, Northkeepshire (I. Marc Carlson IMC at VAX2.UTULSA.EDU LIB_IMC at VAX1.UTULSA.EDU) From: LIB_IMC at vax1.utulsa.edu (I. Marc Carlson) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: re: Kite Shields Date: 9 Jan 1995 10:31:41 -0600 Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway Iban de Sepulveda <From: Valdez at polisci.sscnet.ucla.EDU (Valdez, Jonathan POLI SCI)> >Diarmuit Ui Dhunn recently discussed his research on bolt patterns on kite >shields and how to strap them. I wanted to suggest one possibility, but >annoyingly, can't remember where I saw the illustration (although I think it >was from a period source; perhaps the Bayeaux?). In any case, I remember >seeing a kite shield strapped so that the shield arm was held perpendicular >to the ground; it struck me that this might be a useful way to hold such a >shield. I don't know whether that would help explain bolt patterns, however. That sounds about right. The pattern I eventually went with was ********** Guige attached to top two rivets **..........** Buckled Cross Strapping for a grip *..o.........o.* Two lower, buckled straps to hold forearm. *................* *....o.........o...* *.....\.xxxx../....* *.......\**/.......* *.......x/\x.......* *...../xxxx\.....* *...o/.......\o..* *..............* *..o---------o.* *............* *............* *o--------o* *..........* *........* *........* *......* *......* *....* *....* *..* *..* ** ** This shield pattern was used by a Mounted Norman in the scene numbered XX in my copy of _Mysteries of the Bayeaux Tapestry_ If anyone wants the listing of the 25 patterns used on the tapestry, please let me know. It's a bit long to send here to the Rialto, or so my wife who reads the digest tells me :) A temporarily displaced scholar, Diarmuit Ui Dhunn University of Northkeep, Northkeepshire (I. Marc Carlson IMC at VAX2.UTULSA.EDU LIB_IMC at VAX1.UTULSA.EDU) From: Garick Chamberlin <Garick at vonkopke.demon.co.uk> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: HELP!! Helm/Shield Making Needed Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 23:52:47 GMT Organization: Drachenwald In response to the question on shield making, here is an answer I gave to another person in similar straights some time ago. I hope it helps. I make all my shields, as well as many for new fighters, out of old street signs. I know this sounds dumb, but it is just about the perfect shield material. One standard size street sign and a handfull of rivets will make the perfect tourney sheild in just a couple of hours. It will be light, about 7-8 pounds. It will be strong, my 6 year old shield is still in use. It will be attractive, as long as you remember to put the sign side IN and cover it. It will be cheap, read free. First off, DON'T STEAL AN IN USE STREET SIGN. Call your local road maintainance department, or moral equivelant, and ask for an old one. If you mention that you want it to build equipment for a nonprofit, educational group they will most likely say "Sure. Come on down. How many do you want?" If they don't, don't be daunted. Simply call the county roads department, or a neighboring city's. So far, I've never had to call' more than one department in my search. They have no use for them and are glad to give them to a good cause. Once you have your street sign, mark the shape and size of shield you desire onto the metal. Then cut it out. Remember that if you are making a curved shield the curve will reduce its width by about 2 inches, so cut it out 2 inches wider than you want your finished shield to be. If you are going to curve it, now is the time. Street signs are made from a titaniumaluminum alloy and are therefore very springy. Though this drastically reduces their tendancy to dent, it also makes curving them fiendishly difficult. After much experimentation I have found that the best method for putting in a curve which will stay without over weakening the metal is to find, or make, two boards which are parralel and about 1/4 to 1/2 of an inch apart and insert the shield blank a couple of inches, bend, insert it a couple of more inches, bend, etc. Bend the shield a little more than you want it to remain, as the metal's natural elastiscity will eleminate part of the curve after a couple of weeks use. Methods that DON'T work include putting it on a log and jumping up and down on the edges of both sides and putting it half over the curb and driving over it. The first doesn't stress the metal enough to give it any permenant curve, no matter how hard you try. The second overstresses the metal and makes it very susceptible to denting and bending in ways that you don't want. Now take the leftover pieces of sign and make reinforcements out of them. It is vital to the life of your shield that you reinforce the most frequently hit part, i.e. the part near your hand. For a round shield, make a large "D" shape and rivet it to the inside, leading edge of your shield. For a heater, or "bunny-round" (a round bottom, with a heater top) you need to make a sort of "L" shape on its side, with the tail part on the hand side of the shield. Something like this _______ )) this is hard to visualize in ASCI, sorry. This piece should be about 6 inches wide on the "stem" and about 12 from the top to the end of the tail and 6 inches in from the side. The "bend" of the L should be gently curved on the inside (i.e. lower side) to give an arch type of support, rather than a weak corner. It should come down far enough that the handle is put over it, so that the handle won't have an anvil effect with the shield bending around it. For heaters you should also add a small (maybe 6 inch tall by 4 inch wide) diamond shape to the bottom, so that the bottom won't curve up like a ski tip. To hang (i.e. put on the handle and strap) a heater shield, pick up the upper right corner with your thumb and forefinger. Hold it out and draw a straight line on the inside of the shield exactly perpendicular to the ground. This is the line your arm should be on when holding the shield. Now stand with your arm in whatever is, for you, a natural spot to hold the shield. Have a friend hold the shield with the line against your arm. Have him/her move the sheild up and down untill your natural holding position matches a good spot for the shield. You should just barely be able to see over the edge of the shield and an opponent should not be able to see your whole nose. Mark the spot where your hand is and put the handle there. I always use 5 1/2 or 6 inch door pulls for handles. They fit the hand very well, but must be raised about 1/2 an inch to avoid squishing your hand. A pile of washers, a thin spacer of wood, or what have you will easily accomplish this. Put some sort of cage over the handle to avoid having your hand caught between the hammer of your shield being propelled by a blow and the anvil of your helm. Many armorers make shieldbaskets, or you can make/ adapt one yourself. I have seen people use old bread loaf pan cut in half, but can not vouch for their efficacy. If they are available in your area, the grilled faceshields from hockey and lacrosse helmets work excellently. Put a layer of close celled foam, or some such, along the line were your arm will go, including under the handle. This will significanly reduce shock transmission from their shield to you. Put a strap over your forearm about 2/3 of the way from your wrist to your elbow. DO NOT put the strap low enough on your arm as to touch your elbow's tendons. This will rob you of strength and energy faster than you would believe possible. I prefer a very tight strap, so that my shield mirrors my tiniest move without delay. The wider your strap is, the less it bites and, therefore, the less tiring it is to hold your shield. Soft leather is best for this. All you need do now is to drill holes along the edges,about 1 1/2 inches in, every 3 inches or so. Make the holes closer together near the corners. As the top right (for right-handers) corner takes the most abuse, glue a short section of leather or bike tire over that corner before adding the rest of the rimming. A soft "rubber cement" type glue works best for this. Now take an old bicycle tire (27 inch ten speed tires work best, for the average heater) and cut the wires out of it. Without wires it should stretch over the rim of your shield quite well. Hold it in place by spiraling wire, string, 550 cord, or what have you through the holes you drilled earlier and tie it off. You can get old bike tires from bike shops just for the asking. Take all they give you, as they through them away in batches, so sometimes they don't have any and you have to drive all over town looking for one. In desparate situations, you can even buy one. Lastly, or sometimes even before rimming, decorate your shield. If painting armory upon it, be aware that the aluminum tends to shed paint unless you put a coat of primer on it. After priming, it takes paint fine. The already painted side, however, doesn't take paint for beans even if primered first. Therefore,the sign side should ALWAYS go on the inside and to cover it up I reccomend glueing a piece of scrap fabric over it. Again, a nonbrittle, rubber cement type glue works best for this. You will now have a shield that will last for years. Enjoy it and use it in good health. Yours in Service, Viscount Sir Garick von Kopke Permission is hearby granted to crosspost this article to other forums and to publish it in any notforprofit periodical. ... Honor Virtus Est From: rshipp at flash.net (Randy Shipp) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Shield Help??? Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 16:44:38 GMT Organization: University of North Texas HDXQ27A at prodigy.com (Terry Aucoin) wrote: > I'm about to builda Tear Drop shield but lack one vital information on >the bending of the wood. How do you slightly curve the wood? A friend >told me you have to wet it, bent for set, and let dry into set! >is this the correct way? This was recently discussed, and based on the discussion, I went home and built my first curved plywood heater shield blank. Cost was probably about $15 or so dollars, not counting tools. First, I bought a 4x8 sheet of 1/4" B/C plywood, which is sanded and nicer on one side than the other. I had the lumberyard cut it in half, so I had two 4'x4' pieces. I took one piece, and measured and drew a centerline down the middle of the nice side (It'll be the inside of the shield). I then measured 13" from the centerline on each side to show the width of my heater. I measured down 36" from the top and drew across, so I had a 26"x36" box. Then I just sketched in the heater shape in pencil. Now I was ready to laminate. I put two sawhorses fairly close together and put the second piece of plywood, nice side down on them. The plywood will naturally flex one way more easily than another. Align that natural bend so that the plywood will curve down into the gap between the sawhorses. Then slather wood glue generously on the bottom piece of plywood. I had my girlfriend help, and we used pieces of cardboard as scrapers to spread the glue around. We used maybe a pint of glue...maybe less. Put the plywood with your shield drawn on it on top. Square up the edges and put many C-clamps tightly around the edges of the plywood. Then take two pipe clamps and put them across the shield. Tighten them evenly, and they will curve the blank. Put just a little more curve than you want, as it will rebound slightly when you release the clamps. Leave clamped for 24 hours and then cut out your blank with a jigsaw. AFTERWORD: After making my blank, I decided on a few changes. First, I think I will cut off all but a few inches on either side of the shield drawing before I laminate it. Thus, I'll be curving a 30"x48" stack of wood instead of a 48"x48" blank. I didn't get quite as tight a curve on my blank as I would have liked (I won't know for sure until I use the shield), and I think a narrower lamination would've allowed me to put more curve in it. Your mileage may vary. I hope this helps. I saw lots of different ways mentioned, but I think pipe clamps offered the most stable, controllable method of putting the bend in the shield. In Service, Antoine D'Aubernoun mka Randy Shipp rshipp at flash.net From: claude at nickel.laurentian.ca Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Shield Help??? Date: 4 Jun 96 11:12:50 -0500 Organization: Laurentian University I built my very first shield last year and here is a brief description of how I made it. I first built a mould or form out of 3/4" plywoob that had the curvevature of the shield I wanted to create. On it I layed three layers, one at a time, of 3/16" plywood gluying them together with contact cement. Clamps of all sorts were used for this. After a few hours of drying I removed the glued shield from the form and cut it to size and sanded it. I then stained and varnished it. For a more "classic" look I added steel edgings and a steel heraldic cross using pop rivets. I then spray varnished the entired item. The shield did straighten out just a little bit when it was removed from the mold but nothing too be concerned about. If you are satisfied with your results you can use the same mold to construct as many shields as you like. Hope this helps. Claude. From: Christopher Miller <marundel at ponyexpress.net> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Shield Material Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 11:02:46 -0500 ltemplar wrote: > Down here in Austin, Texas I went to Sam's Club Warehouse and noticed > a large circular turn table made out of OAK. It is about a half inch > thick and either 24" or 30" wide. It sells for $19.95. I figured you > can just take off the ball bearing contrapion on the back and make a > pretty neat looking shield. It is also beveled around the edge. What > does anyone think? For a "round shield and mass weapon" tourney, I made a round out of a flexible flyer sled. Seriously, I was walking through Toys-R-Us, and they had a stack of the saucers for sale. 25 7/16" inches across, 16 gauge steel, dished, edges rolled, $16. A 26" bicycle tire finished it off quite nicely. Break the paradigms. Try it and let me know how it works. Madoc From: bwc at proaxis.com (Doug Brunner) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Shield Material Date: 6 Apr 1997 16:15:52 GMT Organization: Brunner's Woods and Crafts rhogan at mnsi.net wrote: >This may be passing simple, but why not just buy two of these wonderously >cheap shield rounds, and put the beveled edges out, and stick them >together, grains at perpendicular? That way you get a solid inch, and >have a good reason to rim it with some iron for strength. I'd have to agree with this one. I'm not a fighter, first of all. I've gotten old enough that I truly appreciate the fact that the bruises take much longer to heal at my age.;-) But, I do sling a lot of wood. For me to rip through a couple hundred board feet in a day is not unusual. After about 2 or 3 hours, this gets a bit heavy. Even if I do wimp out and put it down a lot. Bottom line, inch thick oak is HEAVY. It's not that bad for the first few minutes. But, after three or four rounds you're going to be tired. I would just guess that one inch oak, with the iron rim, straps and steel guard, would weigh near to 19 pounds. IF you lift small cars for exercise, that would be no problem. However, the people I've worked with prefer something a bit lighter. I was making mine out of multiple layers of 1/8" paneling and 1/4" Plywood. I was making curved shields. I had made a frame of 2X6's. This frame allowed a curve/drop of 3.5in from the center to the edge. The frame was 26" across. I bent a piece of 1/4 Maple three ply across the frame and attached it. I cleaned the surface of the ply and the paneling and glued a layer of 1/8" paneling across it. I then drilled holes of 5/16" in predetermined spots for my flanges. I use a from of nut, with a flange. They're often used in furniture. I would then use a Forstner Bit and form an offset in the paneling. This allowed the flange to sit below the edge of the paneling. After all that, I laid on the another layer of 1/4" Maple Plywood. This allowed me to have a finished front, with no bolts coming through. I had already made the knuckle guards. This just bolted into position. The other spots were put in to allow the user to move the basket and straps around as they saw fit. This was all assembled with TiteBond II glue. The edging was done in heavy Rawhide. I put it on wet, so it would tighten as it dried. Some people prefer splitting a heavy garden hose. I wanted a more authentic look and feel. The rawhide was held on with Brass Rivets. I almost forgot. After the three layers were dry, I put 1/4" wooden dowels through the shield to form a pattern. Usually just 4"X4" squares. It looked nice and gave the shield much greater strength. The paneling, ply and glue was much harder to delaminate like this. Knuckle guards were made of 1/4" round stock steel, primed and painted. The front was waxed and buffed to a nice glossy finish. Final product weighed about 12lbs. It was a lot of work, but my customers seemed to appreciate it. I've never had one come back. Lord, I sound like a commercial. Too bad I've closed my shop and business. ;) Doug B. From: bwc at proaxis.com (Doug Brunner) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Help with my shield? Date: 5 Apr 1997 17:00:14 GMT Organization: Brunner's Woods and Crafts mdavies at sprynet.com says... >I'm a newbie trying to put together a shield, and need help with the >dimensions for a decent heater. I used to custom make shields. Most people I did work for used a basic formula for a beginner's shield. The width of the shield should be approximatley the width of your shoulders. The height is from your chin to your crotch. Start the curve at approximatley 40% from the top and run it down to a point about 2 fingers wide. To set your grips, lay the shield on your arm, above your head. Put the shield and your arm in such a way that the shield balances with your arm about midway between top and bottom. Mark the distance between your knuckles and elbow. Find the center of these marks. Rotate your arm to about 20deg, depending on right or left handed. This should be about where your arm should be when you support the shield. Each person is a bit different. This includes muscularature(spelling*?). Experiment in the location of your arm and elbow. This, I've found, is probably the most critical point. This is what defines your balance and how the shield wears. I used to keep a dummy/protype in the shop. It was quite adjustable, with several dozen holes in it for locating straps and guards. I used this to fine tune the pieces. Hope I haven't confused things too much.;-) Doug B. From: Christopher Miller <marundel at ponyexpress.net> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Help with my shield? Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 10:45:24 -0500 Mike Davies wrote: > I'm a newbie trying to put together a shield, and need help with the > dimensions for a decent heater. I already have a sheet of 2' x 4' exterior > grade plywood. I also have hose for the outside edge, a handle, and a belt > for the arm. What I really need help with is measurements for overall > length, and how far down from the top should I go before I start to curve > the bottom to a point? Also, how far down from the top should the handle > be? If height needs to be taken into account, I'm 5'10". Thanx for the > help. > -- > Madok ap Davyd > Madrone, An-tir > mdavies at sprynet.com With a name like Madok, you got something going for ya. My personal preference is to cut the plywood to 24" across by 34" long prior to curving the wood. Then one of two construction types: (1) two sheets of equal sized 1/4" plywood, glued together and pressed or (2) three sheets of equal sized 1/4" plywood, two of which have the center cut out (to lighten the weight slightly while maintaining rim-strength and balance), glued together and pressed. Leave the wood in the rectangular shape. Use a LOT of carpenters glue to glue the two together. While the glue is still wet, put the blanks into a shield press and crank it down, with slightly more of a bend than you want in the finished shield. If you do not have access to a shield press, place the blanks on top of a couple of railroad ties set two feet apart, and put scrap metal, sand bags, or any other kind of Massive, localized weight along the centerline (enough weight to make the plywood touch the floor between the RR ties). After about three days, remove the blank form the press, and trace you heater shape onto it. My personal preference is straight edges to about halfway dow the sides, than a gradual curving taper to the point of the shield. I trim the sides only enough to even up the edges of the plywood (usually trimming it to 22 or 23 inches across) and between 32 and 34 inches from the top edge to the point. Madoc Arundel (marundel at ponyexpress.net) Or, an Acorn within Oak Leaves in annulo vert. From: Blues <Blues at mail.ic.net> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Help with my shield? Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 17:40:35 -0400 Mike Davies wrote: > I'm a newbie trying to put together a shield, and need help with the > dimensions for a decent heater. I already have a sheet of 2' x 4' exterior > grade plywood. I also have hose for the outside edge, a handle, and a belt > for the arm. What I really need help with is measurements for overall > length, and how far down from the top should I go before I start to curve > the bottom to a point? Also, how far down from the top should the handle > be? If height needs to be taken into account, I'm 5'10". Thanx for the > help. > -- > Madok ap Davyd > Madrone, An-tir > mdavies at sprynet.com I wrote an article some years back about making heater shields. It has a reduced pattern with the measurements you need given. It's now on my Web site with some other articles of interest to new fighters at: http://ic.net/~blues/fight.htm Other articles of interest to people new to the SCA in general are at: http://ic.net/~blues/articles.htm Gunnbjorn Gunnarsson -- The Blues Viking Online! http://ic.net/~blues From: Dani Eder <ederd at worldnet.att.net> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Aluminum SAhield Blanks Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 19:28:04 -0500 Organization: Castle Guild, Society for Creative Anachronism James Morrow wrote: > I need one for a friend. Where can i get one Please? > > Achbar We need a little more information in order to answer the question. Used road signs (which can often be found in metal scrap yards) can be converted into an aluminum shield blank if one has a jig saw to cut out the shape, or can find a local SCA armorer with a "Beverly Shears". If you want to put a curve on the shield, it can be bent around a tree trunk. Road sign aluminum is fairly soft, so it is easy to work, but it is also easy to dent. At the other extreme, you can get an sheet of aircraft aluminum alloy, which is much stiffer. Therefore it is harder to work, but will stand up to blows longer. The last set of shield blanks I made were from 6061-T6, 0.100 inches thick. To put a curve on it I placed two 4" diameter poles lengthwise on the ground spaced almost the width of the shield. On top of this I placed the shield blank. On top of this I placed a sawmill slab from the outside of a tree, curved side down. Then I drove a Chevy full-size conversion van carefully over the sawmill slab until the shield blank was bent somewhat more than the final curve I wanted (it springs back some). A more expensive alternative is to take the shield blank to a sheet metal shop and have them put a curve on it for you using their large forming rollers. At the extreme, take a drawing of the shield you want to a sheet metal shop and have them make it for you from scratch. If you live in or near a large city, or can get to a larger event, there should be an SCA armorer who can make one for you - ask around locally, or go to the merchant area of the large event, or go up to someone with an aluminum shield and ask them where they got it. Which of the above methods you choose depends on things like how soon you need it and how much you want to spend on it. Daniel of Raven's Nest [Submitted by: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>] Subject: re: Plastic, and other (fwd) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:32:26 -0500 (EST) From: David KUIJT <kuijt at umiacs.umd.edu> To: Craig Levin <clevin at ripco.com> CC: Merry Rose <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org> On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Craig Levin wrote: > It wouldn't be that hard to develop shields that broke apart in > that way. Supposedly, in the sixteenth century, there were such > shields developed for tournaments in the Holy Roman Empire (see > Clepham's The Medieval Tournament, from Dover Press). In so > doing, you would only be recreating a part of period tournament > practice. I'm afraid I disagree. The exploding shields used in German tournaments in the 16th century were fancy spring-loaded jousting targets. They had nothing to do with foot combat, and very little to do with jousting in the combat sense. Jonathan was talking (semi-facetiously) about shields designed to degrade when hit as a simulation of the behaviour of a medieval shield made of wood/leather/gesso/etc being hit by a real sword, axe, or halberd. The 16th century "shattering" shields were essentially a bunch of metal segments bound together in a mouse-trap type spring-loaded framework simulating the face of a jousting shield. If you hit the exact center with your lance in a joust, the spring triggered and the shield face blew apart in forty pieces as if you had shattered it. This was the Renaissance equivalent of bells and whistles, the outgrowth of a scoring system for jousting that had long since lost all connection to combat. There are a number of books with diagrams of the exploding shields; I believe that the most easy-to-find illustrations are by Du"rer. Dafydd [Submitted by: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>] Subject: re: Plastic, and other (fwd) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:40:16 -0600 (CST) From: clevin at ripco.com (Craig Levin) To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org (Merry Rose) Earl Dafydd: > On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Craig Levin wrote: > > It wouldn't be that hard to develop shields that broke apart in > > that way. Supposedly, in the sixteenth century, there were such > > shields developed for tournaments in the Holy Roman Empire (see > > Clepham's The Medieval Tournament, from Dover Press). In so > > doing, you would only be recreating a part of period tournament > > practice. > > I'm afraid I disagree. The exploding shields used in German tournaments > in the 16th century were fancy spring-loaded jousting targets. They had > nothing to do with foot combat, and very little to do with jousting in the > combat sense. Darn. I was hoping that they'd be something a bit more realistic. > Jonathan was talking (semi-facetiously) about shields designed to degrade > when hit as a simulation of the behaviour of a medieval shield made of > wood/leather/gesso/etc being hit by a real sword, axe, or halberd. > > The 16th century "shattering" shields were essentially a bunch of metal > segments bound together in a mouse-trap type spring-loaded framework > simulating the face of a jousting shield. If you hit the exact center > with your lance in a joust, the spring triggered and the shield face blew > apart in forty pieces as if you had shattered it. This was the > Renaissance equivalent of bells and whistles, the outgrowth of a scoring > system for jousting that had long since lost all connection to combat. Well, that's true, but if these individuals are looking for possible avenues to go for shields that "break" when hit, wouldn't it make sense to see how others have tried to do the same thing? Surely, with the improvements in mechanical and materials engineering, it might be possible to go from this intricate mousetrap to a shield made of a mosaic of parts held together by a brittle glue that breaks? > There are a number of books with diagrams of the exploding shields; I > believe that the most easy-to-find illustrations are by Du"rer. I'll look for them. Thank you! Pedro de Alcazar [Submitted by: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>] Subject: re: Plastic, and other (fwd) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:00:37 -0500 (EST) From: David KUIJT <kuijt at umiacs.umd.edu> To: Craig Levin <clevin at ripco.com> CC: Merry Rose <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org> On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Craig Levin wrote: > > The 16th century "shattering" shields were essentially a bunch of metal > > segments bound together in a mouse-trap type spring-loaded framework > > simulating the face of a jousting shield. If you hit the exact center > > with your lance in a joust, the spring triggered and the shield face blew > > apart in forty pieces as if you had shattered it.