shields-msg – 1/15/08
SCA and period shields.
NOTE: See also the files: rattan-msg, tournaments-msg, melee-tactics-art, armor-msg, p-armor-msg, swords-msg, axes-msg, Shield-Balanc-art, W-T-Shields-art, Sword-Fighting-art, wood-bending-msg, wood-msg.
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This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
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Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: whheydt at pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Shield construction
Date: 13 Apr 93 18:10:00 GMT
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
parr at acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes:
>Currently my shields, while durable and (if I do say so myself)
>very attractive, weigh 15-16lbs. Since period heaters are
>estimated (accounting for centuries of drying out) to have
>weighed 8-9lbs at the most, I would dearly like to make something
>attractive, period, and *light*.
Get to a local lumber yard and buy some Linden. It's remarkably light,
tough.... and period.
--Hal
Hal Ravn, West Kingdom
Wilson H. Heydt, Jr., Albany, CA 94706, 510/524-8321 (home)
--
Hal Heydt |
Analyst, Pacific*Bell | If you think the system is working,
510-823-5447 | Ask someone who's waiting for a prompt.
whheydt at pbhya.PacBell.COM |
From: 00mjstum at leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (Matthew J. Stum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Shield construction
Date: 13 Apr 93 20:15:49 GMT
parr at acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes:
> Currently my shields, while durable and (if I do say so myself)
> very attractive, weigh 15-16lbs. Since period heaters are
> estimated (accounting for centuries of drying out) to have
> weighed 8-9lbs at the most, I would dearly like to make something
> attractive, period, and *light*.
I've just started doing some research on the Viking center-grips and
come up with some startling facts (to me, anyway). As you know, these
were flat circular shields made by butting planks together and rimming
the whole thing with either leather or metal. Three reenforcing bands
were placed on the back to make them "legal" for war, according to
some Norse Law that I can't finger off of the top of my head.
What I _didn't_ realize is that they were "nearly a meter wide."
Another source puts them at "30 to 40 inches in diameter". Yikes! My
little 24" center-grip falls quite short. I wondered about the weight
until I read that they were made of limewood (?) and only _one_fifth_
of an inch thick.
The only other construction besides the shield boss, handle, three
bands, and rimming was a coat of paint... usually red, black, yellow,
or white (?)... and less often blue and green. (At least that's what
memory tells me.)
Oh, wait, let's not forget the shoulder strap that allowed them to carry
the thing on their backs...
I'd love to make one of these for an A&S competition, but I'd also like
to _use_ it. I wonder about the durability, though... and if that was
a purposeful design...
--
Matt Stum Gwydion ap Myrddin Ball State University
00mjstum at bsuvc.bsu.edu Shire of Afonlyn, MK Muncie, IN USA
Apr 21 15:53:38 CDT 1993
From: dgreen at athena (David Greenebaum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Shield construction
Date: 14 Apr 1993 16:51:36 GMT
Hello from Bjalfi!
Quoth Gwydion:
>I've just started doing some research on the Viking center-grips and
>come up with some startling facts (to me, anyway). As you know, these
>were flat circular shields made by butting planks together and rimming
>the whole thing with either leather or metal. Three reenforcing bands
>were placed on the back to make them "legal" for war, according to
>some Norse Law that I can't finger off of the top of my head.
>What I _didn't_ realize is that they were "nearly a meter wide."
>Another source puts them at "30 to 40 inches in diameter". Yikes! My
>little 24" center-grip falls quite short. I wondered about the weight
>until I read that they were made of limewood (?) and only _one_fifth_
>of an inch thick.
>[deletion]
>I'd love to make one of these for an A&S competition, but I'd also like
>to _use_ it. I wonder about the durability, though... and if that was
>a purposeful design...
It was. The shields weren't meant to be all that durable--the sagas
mention duels where the combattants go through three or four shields
each. The advantage of having a thin limewood shield (limewood is also
called linden, by the way) rimmed with leather, is that if your opponent's
sword bites into the edge, you can twist the shield and disarm your
opponent. Either you'll wrench the sword from his hand, or you might
bend or break it. (Some of the swords Norsemen used were not all that
high quality--there's a scene, I think it's in Laxdaela saga, where a
man fighting off a bunch of attackers has to keep straightening his
sword beneath his foot.) The shields were not much protection against
spears or polearms; many is the description of a thrown spear piercing
both shield and bearer, and pikes and halberds likewise.
--------------------- Bjalfi Thordharson/College of St. Katherine/Province of
|\ | |\ |\ |// | the Mists/Principality of the Mists/West Kingdom
| > | |\\ | \ |/ | David Greenebaum/University of California/Berkeley, CA
|< | | \ | | | dgreen at athena.berkeley.edu, dgreen at garnet.berkeley.edu
| > | | | | |
|/ | | | | | "I make mistakes, but I am on the side of good -- by
--------------------- accident and happenchance." -- the Golux
From: odlin at reed.edu (Iain Odlin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Shield construction
Date: 15 Apr 93 05:56:12 GMT
Organization: The Stuffed Animal Trauma Team (We're Trained Professionals)
dgreen at athena (David Greenebaum) writes:
>the sagas mention duels where the combattants go through three or four shields
>each.
These were the "Holmgang"s. Ritual one-on-one combat. The breaking of the
shields (held, apparently, by someone other than the combatant, unless I'm
reading wrong...) was a step in the ritual, meant -- I'd guess -- to show
how vigourous the fighters are.
>(Some of the swords Norsemen used were not all that
>high quality--there's a scene, I think it's in Laxdaela saga, where a
>man fighting off a bunch of attackers has to keep straightening his
>sword beneath his foot.)
Laxdaela Saga, page 174 of the Magnusson and Palsson translation: "Kjartan's
blows were hard but his sword was of little use, and he was always having to
put it under his foot to straighten it." Good memory.
------------------------- Iain Odlin, odlin at reed.edu -------------------------
10 Crosby Street, Level 3, Portland ME 04103
--------- "Uncertainty is the normal state. You're nobody special." ---------
From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Viking shield boss construction
Date: 5 May 93 11:30:10
Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK.
As far as I know the Vikings did just beat shield bosses out. I suppose with
practice you get to be a lot better at metal bashing and deeper bosses
become more of a practical option.
I have seen a tiny but deep boss in Liverpool Museum that had a curve
like a tennis ball but showed no signs of a seam anywhere. I don't
know how soft and malleable the metal was that it was formed from, but
when I have seen craftsmen beating out shield bosses by hand they
prefer to have a fire handy and spend more time throwing the bosses in
the fire to get rid of the tempering than they do actually hitting the
things. Apparently you work harden the metal as you bash it into
shape, so you have to constantly re-soften it
I am in a Viking reenactment society and we tend to cheat and use
spun or pressed steel bosses which are mass produced in various
patterns. (One trader persuaded a car plant to produce some using the
steel cases intended for the back of the car's headlights, if they
left out the hole for the bulb they were perfect!) Spun bosses aren't
as good as the pressed ones because you have to get rid of the
spinning marks which show up as a mass of concentric rings.
Jennifer
Vanaheim Vikings
Fri May 21 10:18:36 CDT 1993
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)
Subject: Shields, Visitors, Norms or Exceptions (cooking)
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Thu, 20 May 1993 03:56:16 GMT
Shields
Someone who was asking about Turkish shields also asked about how to
make a concave/convex round shield. One way is to start with a metal
disk (I used the lid from a metal drum, I presume originally intended
for storing something). Procure a ball peen hammer, a pair of
earplugs, and something you can rest the disk on. I think I used a
garbage can or equivalent to support it around the edge, but I
suspect one could also use an ordinary anvil under where you were
pounding.
You start at the center and pound the metal in a tight spiral. This
stretches the metal, making it bulge out. Eventually you have a
convex round shield to play with for a while and eventually give to
your Norse blood brother; I don't know if Asbjorn still has it or not.
Tuomas Viljanen mentions the Adarga. Somewhere I read a discussion of
what it was made of. As I remember, it was the hide of a specific
animal, possibly a variety of antelope. The question was of interest
because the Adarga was supposedly famous for being a very light,
strong shield.
David/Cariadoc
From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Homemade rivets?
Date: 31 Aug 93 15:42:58
Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK.
I fight with a viking centre grip shield. The boss is held in place
with "rivets" they are made from coach bolts. The front of the shield
has the bolt head which is a nice domed shape. Mine came with the
makers name cast on the surface, but a few whacks with a lump hammer
fixed that!
I saw an original viking shield boss a couple of years ago whilst
helping out with an exhibition. the rivets were round headed and domed
and looked just like a coach bolt head, so I don't see why you
shouldn't "fake it and use bolts" just use the right sort and leave
off the nuts like I did.
To use as a rivet saw the bolt to the required length. I can't
remember whether you soften it by heating 'till cherry red then
cooling with a water quench or by letting it cool slowly, but I can
remember heating it on the gas cooker 'till it was cherry red: I held
it in a pair of bits of wood which got rather charred but didn't
collapse. Your propane torch should do fine.
When your coachbolt/rivet has been treated to soften it, cut a cross in
the end with a hacksaw: this will make it a lot easier to start
spreading the rivet. It doesn't need to be very deep: 1/8 of an inch
will do, it's just enough to get it started.
You need something solid underneath the rivet when you're hammering,
bits of old engine make nice emergency anvils if you can't get a
suitable lump of metal elsewhere.
Make sure your handle isn't round in cross section. I've fought with
these and you can't stop them flapping from side to side. They're fine
in a shield wall, but once you're on your own you want more control. A
squashed oval cross section is my favourite.
Where the wood is cut away around the boss get a wood rasp and slope
the edges: if you have a right angle cut it will clobber your wrist
eventually.
The best rim material I have found so far is rawhide. You get the
doggy chews that are shaped sort of like a bone made out of rawhide
knotted at both ends. Soak overnight in water to soften, unknot it and
you have several rawhide strips per doggy chew. Whilst it is still
soft nail over your shield rim using blued steel tacks. Stretch the
rawhide as you nail it (this is important as it goes crinkly if you
don't stretch it enough) The rawhide dries to a really tough
protective edge. I have been fighting with a shield made of heavy duty
marine plywood (13 ply) it is edged with doggy chews and has a steel
boss. I have used the same shield for 5 years and last weekend for the
first time one of the rawhide strips split after someone hooked an axe
in it. This was a 2 handed axe and we had a tug of war with it hooked
in my shield. The rawhide split slightly where the tip of the axe was
hooked in it, but it didn't give up altogether.
We fight with blunt metal weapons, so I would think the rawhide would
hold up longer against rattan.
I have tried out iron bound shield and I'm not convinced they are
worth the effort. They are much heavier and the edging is lethal if it
does come loose in a fight. Leather is not as tough as rawhide, and
even veg. tanned leather isn't as stretchy when wet, so you always get
a crinkly edge.
You didn't mention painting it, but there's a report called three
viking graves from the isle of man" by Bersu and Wilson which has a
fragment of an original shield with the pattern still visible.
If you want to talk any more about viking shields please email me. The
society I am in usually fights with centre grip round shields, so if I
can't answer any questions, I might be able to find someone who can.
Jennifer
Vanaheim Vikings
(If you haven't figured it out from the stuff above, I'm not SCA but I
was passing by the Rialto & thought I'd stop for a chat)
From: harald at matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Harold Kraus Jr)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Homemade rivets?
Date: 31 Aug 1993 12:36:22 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
The good Jennifer writes:
>............................................................
>To use as a rivet saw the bolt to the required length. I can't
>remember whether you soften it by heating 'till cherry red then
>cooling with a water quench or by letting it cool slowly, but ....
>..........................................................
For steel, it is cool slowly, allowing the iron crystals time to
sort out their kinks and grow larger. For my part, I find that bolts
mild (soft) enough to cut with a hacksaw are mild enough to peen
into a rivet head. Make sure you peen your rivet over a closely
fitting a rivet.
Harald Isenross, Spinning Winds, Calontir, harald at matt.ksu.ksu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: joakimr at ifi.uio.no (Joakim Ruud)
Subject: Re: Homemade rivets?
Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 07:15:50 GMT
> I saw an original viking shield boss a couple of years ago whilst
> helping out with an exhibition. the rivets were round headed and domed
> and looked just like a coach bolt head, so I don't see why you
> shouldn't "fake it and use bolts" just use the right sort and leave
> off the nuts like I did.
> To use as a rivet saw the bolt to the required length. I can't
> remember whether you soften it by heating 'till cherry red then
> cooling with a water quench or by letting it cool slowly, but I can
> remember heating it on the gas cooker 'till it was cherry red: I held
> it in a pair of bits of wood which got rather charred but didn't
> collapse. Your propane torch should do fine.
What's the point of going to all that trouble, when there are iron rivets
available...? (at least here in Norway...)
> When your coachbolt/rivet has been treated to soften it, cut a cross in
> the end with a hacksaw: this will make it a lot easier to start
> spreading the rivet. It doesn't need to be very deep: 1/8 of an inch
> will do, it's just enough to get it started.
> You need something solid underneath the rivet when you're hammering,
> bits of old engine make nice emergency anvils if you can't get a
> suitable lump of metal elsewhere.
I find that riveting on a harder surface than the rivet itself causes the
rivet head to be deformed. Use a surface of just the same hardness, or
slightliy softer (thick copper or iron(soft)). This way, the rivet head will
retain its dome-shape...
Jokke
From: jschmidt at oolong.Tymnet.COM (John Schmidt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: The Shield Wall From Hell
Date: 12 Nov 1993 21:26:53 GMT
Organization: BT North America (Tymnet)
In article <CGCFvA.7tq at acsu.buffalo.edu> v081lu33 at ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (Ken Mondschein) writes:
>
> I agree with the fellow who said something about halbreds: when faced
>with a shield wall-attrition battle, it seems a valuable asset to be able to
>hit around corners.
Hmm. The strongest point for axes (pole, great or hand) is that you can
pull the sheild around with them and also they give you a large head to
attempt to block shots with.
> One thing I've been meaning to try is a pavise: a late-period tower
>shield-- completely impractical for singles combat, but a mini castle when
>toted along. Of course, they'd have to be used en masse, but they'd make the
>Calontir shield wall look like a speed bump...
I would disagree, based on the pavise selection found in the Metropolitan
Museum and also from the various Osprey books. The Calontiri shields are
larger than most pavises except some used as light fortifications; very
clearly it can be seen that the pavis was often strapped on the back, so it
can't be much larger than a scutum.
> Another idea I had was to put a kickstand on the shield, so that it
>would stand up by itself. This way, you could leave it standing in the middle
>of the field or block your rear with it (or put a dummy behind it and sneak
>around in the woods battle, or block a pass through the trees :) ).
Entirely period. You could also put a metal spike on the bottom point, or
put in stakes. There are a number of these used in the West Kingdom, where
missle troops are allowed to carry and place them.
> Plus, you could velcro a buckler or small round to the back...
Where it would fall off after the first hard blow. Just go ahead and strap
it to your forearm.
> Then again, maybe I have to repad my helmet...
I think I have to wash my padding.
> Tristan
>
John Theophilous
From: shick at europa.eng.gtefsd.com (Steve Hick)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Two-pointed Shields: was Spear and Sword
Date: 7 Dec 1993 21:25:54 GMT
Organization: GTE GSC FSD
In article <2e1237INNd08 at matt.ksu.ksu.edu>, harald at matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Harold
Kraus Jr) wrote:
> The good Tristan writes:
>
> [comments on spear and sword deleted]
> > ..... Also, a shield with
> >two sword points on it is documentable for Moorish Spain (the Palladium RPG
> >arms and armor book, which is actually remarkable informative as a tertiary
> >source).
>