rattan-msg – 3/19/12 Working with rattan. Rattan and fiberglass sources for SCA combat. NOTE: See also the files: wood-bending-msg, SCAweapons-msg, quarterstaff-msg, axes-msg, swords-msg, shoes4combat-msg, Shield-Balanc-art, duct-tape-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: kopp0614 at nova.gmi.EDU (Adam Hill Koppy) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: straighting rattan Date: 23 Aug 1993 13:08:06 -0400 the problem is a bent piece of rattan needs to be straight lashing it to a piece of angle iron and soaking it will and will not work it will remove some of the bend but the rattan will most likely spring back some. what i would try is to over straighten the piece and use very hot water or steam. here is the first of two methods i would recommend the peice is now like this \________/ attach it to something that won't bend (4x4, angle iron, be creative) with clamps or maybe screws. V-blocks would be helpful or carve flat spots on the ends | / / clamp>__/ ---------------------------- now soak in HOT water or live steam (you might have this at work) and bend the peice down and place a spacer in between the peice and the straight edge so that the rattan has a bow the oppiside way. be careful not to twist the rattan. ___________ clamp> __/ O \___ haven't actually measured it). It's badly curved, but I was told that >straightening it out is pretty trivial. Ok, but how do you do it? I stumbled upon a very good (if seasonal) method of bending rattan at Lillies VII. There had been considerable rainfall the previous two days so the ground was soaked. My weapons had been sitting in the wet grass in full Calontir July sunlight for the whole morning when I discovered that they were all warped. Efectively, my weapons were being steamed. The rattan was very pliant and I could bend and staighten the pieces quite readily. I straightened my warped rattan weapons and put them in the shade to cool and "set" and my weapons have been fine since. I find that this could be a convienent method for steam forming rattan, especially for peices that are too long to fit in any available oven. I recomend starting in the morning of a forcasted sunny and hot (90+) day. Find a sunny patch of ground soaked by rainfall or domestic water. Let your rattan set there through the noon hour and do your forming in the early to middle afternoon. (I have seen grass steamed rattan get bend with just a morning sun) Covering the grass and rattan with a sheet of clear plastic would intensify the steaming. Steam bending is a basic technique for wood forming. One method for steaming wood that could be readily adapted to rattan would be pouring boiling water over staves which are heavyily rapped in cloth. This technique has the advantage of selectively heating portions of the stave. A rule of thumb for steaming wood for bending is to steam the wood at 212F for 20 per half inch of thickness; but I am not so sure how well this rule applies to low density and porous rattan. I think I'll try the grass steam technique next summer on the 1/4 inch lathes I want to use in a skin boat project. >Also, I would like to start fighting great-sword. Are there any >"official" lower-bounds for bastard- and gread-swords? What's a good way >to decide how big to make it? (my regular sword barely touches the >ground when I hold my arm straight down.) That's pretty standard. >(I know a bastard sword is >between a regular sword and a great sword, and a greatsword is between a >bastard sword and 6'.) Society Standard: <4' = bastard, >4' = great (although 4'-5' is only considered a good sword) >Which one should I start with (bastard or >great)? Whichever you feel comfortable with -- they are two definitely different styles. The great sword is the more challenging and potentially dangerous. Harald Isenross, Calontir, HARALD at MATT.KSU.KSU.EDU Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: keradwc at rahul.net (Keradwc an Cai) Subject: Re: Sword shavings Organization: Ringworld Engineering Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 04:17:45 GMT In a recent article (<7+RktArJBh107h at ilel.allegro.amf.com>), slindell at ilel.allegro.amf.com (Scott Lindell) wrote: >OK, so as I understand it, some fighters have taken to shaving their swords >down a bit. Some questions: > > Are the ends still 1.25 inches in diameter? > At least. While I've not used my swords recently, they're both about 1.25-1.5" on the narrow edge, while the "wide" edges are either 1.75 or 2.25" depending on which sword. (I've found that the larger sizes of rattan, while both harder to find and less popular, tend to last longer, especially the unpeeled (aka yellow) rattan.) My shortsword is has a blade width of just under 1.5" and a depth of just over 2.5" -- it used to be a regular sword until it broke. I shaved the blades down to bring their weight and balance closer to what my steel sword has. Keradwc one upon a time stikjok -- Keradwc an Cai A Caidan Mistie (or was that a Misty Caidan?) Kevin Davis Connery kconnery at isi.com or keradwc at rahul.net Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: ug510 at freenet.Victoria.BC.CA (Tom J. Pilcher) Subject: Re: Sword shavings Organization: The Victoria Freenet Association (VIFA), Victoria, B.C., Canada Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 03:14:41 GMT In a previous article, slindell at ilel.allegro.amf.com (Scott Lindell) says: >OK, so as I understand it, some fighters have taken to shaving their swords >down a bit. Some questions: > > Are the ends still 1.25 inches in diameter? > The standard practice is to take a large piece of rattan (usually around 2") and shave it down to a blade 1 1/4" thick and 2" wide. The resulting sword is still heavier than a 1 1/4" piece of rattan but has a definite sword cross-section. It is a lot easier to tell if you are hitting with the flat of the blade. >Ansgar Otkelsson > >Scott R. Lindell >slindell at ilel.allegro.amf.com -- James the Tormentor: 13th Century Templar House Aqua Cullis rises from the sea! Tom Pilcher: 20th Century Cdn Navy ug510 at freenet.victoria.bc.ca From: havoc at well.sf.ca.us (Drew Pritsker) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: re: Testing Pultruded Fiberglas Date: 5 Apr 1994 16:57:41 GMT Organization: The Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link, Sausalito, CA Summary: Fiberglass Source Gunwaldt,Mike and Diana - You might want to try obtaining your pike blanks from a company named Ryan-Herco. They direct buy the Extren 500 1 1/4 by 1/8" pultruded fiberglass structural tubing from the manufacturer (which I think they are a part of). The tube is blue-grey and is extremely strong. The part number is 1915-005 and is selling for $2.69 per foot. This company is nationwide with offices in San Jose, Burbank, San Antonio Kansas City as well as others that escape my feeble mind. (I know all this as I broke my pike 3 weekends ago after 4 years of use. I had to reorder yesterday.) Note also that these guys sell a octagonal blank I think. I wonder if the edges provide a better gripping surface? -------------------------------------------------------------------- Nicollo Blackrose Drew Pritsker Baron of the Westermark 4896 McCoy Ave Kingdom of the West San Jose CA 95130 havoc at well.sf.ca.us -- From: Jester.Of.Anglesea at f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Jester Of Anglesea) Date: 15 Apr 94 17:32:00 -0500 Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Rattan Factoids Organization: Fidonet:TIDMADT 703-765-0822 (1:109/120) Greetings all, Finally found a source that mentioned rattan. It was old. How old you ask? It hadn't been checked out of the library in over 10 years and made several references to the nation of Formosa. Any way, it included three paragraphs discussing rattan as part of a tropical rainforest. As a previous post noted, rattan is a palm that grows like a vine. It comes in three broad groups with several sub-species of each type. The vines vary in thickness, ranging from 1-8cm, and in length (longest recorded stem: 100+ meters!). Rattan needs trees to grow on or it, apparently, dies. It is harvested by pulling down the plant, removing all branches from the stems, and drying the stems. The book notes that rattan grows in a wide range of tropical rain-forests, but only in virgin tropical rainforests. The author notes that the increasing use of slash and burn farming and the growth of 'plantation foresting' endanger the future of rattan. A hopeful note: The author does mention that some types of rattan (which types he does not say) may be able to be cultivated outside of a tropcial rain-forest setting. I'm going to call a couple of the appropriate embassies and see if their agricultural or trade sections can provide any information. More later. Jester of Anglesea MKA: Tony Jordan Shire of Roxbury Mill Atlantia From: krekuta at tor.hookup.net (Kel Rekuta) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: re: rattan getting scarce Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 02:09:14 GMT Organization: Kilmallen Consulting Keywords: rattan As to the scarcity of rattan... hah! Call up Inter Mares Trading, address in directory listing of TI each and every qtr for the last five years. Jeff Miritello will be tickled pink to sell you a lovely bundle of twenty five staves about ten foot long. Ask for 35/40 mm for bare minimum diameter and 40/45 for stouter stuff. He knows what we do with it and makes sure we get nice straight stuff. I've used his stock for five years. Dandy stuff. Problem is, nobody but merchants wants to get a bundle at a time. It takes too much organisation! That is the item lacking, not rattan. BTW, the rattan we get these days isn't as good as that from three - four years ago. The good yellow (Manau) rattan from Indonesia is no longer exported so the Indonesian government can protect their indigenous rattan furniture industry. (Can you imagine the gall, depriving North Americans of their hobby goods just for a few jobs! :) ) The stuff we get now is from the Phillipines, whose southern islands are coated with forests of the stuff. What we really need to do is get the US gov't to lighten up on North Vietnam. You should see the quality of their red-brown rattan! Dense, stiff, durable: just lousy for furniture.... Wassail! Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: akoczur at genghis.borland.com (Alexander S. Koczur) Subject: Re: Whatif there's no rattan? Organization: Borland International Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 02:48:23 GMT In article <70e_9410180742 at blkcat.fidonet.org>, Charly.The.Bastard at f1077.n147.z1.fidonet.org (Charly The Bastard) wrote: > re: alternative sword materials > > Some time back, when rattan got scarce, we experimented seriously with a > plastic, ultra dense molecular weight polyethylene I think it was called. The > results were mixed, partly due to the weather down here in the summer, and it > was shelved into obscurity with a reverse in Foreign Relations policy. IF > rattan DOES get really scarce, i feel confident that our armorers will come > up with Something that will work, and we'll all convert over and the Game > will continue. Exactly so. I still have a couple of old poly-swords sitting around. They worked when necessary; and that was up in Antir. We even tried a couple of different types of plastics, and in tube and rod forms back in 1981 or so. Rods generally worked better than the tubes. Rattan was always superior to all plastics. For what its worth... Toratoshi Benkei no Omagashi aka Alexander Wallpuncher aka akoczur at genghis.borland.com Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: cheval at netcom.com (jay hoffman) Subject: Re: ratan Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 21:10:18 GMT Good cousin, Peter Hendrickson (hendricp at norand.com) wrote: : what is the current cost and availability of ratan poles in : your area? : please specify your location. Looking in my checkbook, 9 staves of ~1 .25" rattan, 9' long cost me $182 (tax included) last week at the Caning Shop in Berkeley, California (West Kingdom). Alfred of Carlyle, West Kingdom From: jsilver at compusmart.ab.ca (GORGON) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: first RATTAN PURCHESS :) Date: 17 Oct 1995 19:41:16 GMT Organization: CompuSmart Edmonton I bought my first stick of rattan today, not bad looking, little wobbles here and there, ( was the best of the 3 ), BUT it had some weird cuts/scratchs on it, they looked semi , I know that is vague, does any one know what the hell I am talking about? :) ok now for the real stuff. :) how does one go about getting it ready for fighting? It is yellow rattan, do you remove the bark ( it that is bark ) or do you just DUCT TAPE it and away you go? I know these are old questions, but hey every one is a beginer some time ( or at least i hope some are :) ) From: Paul Greene <75252.742 at CompuServe.COM> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: first RATTAN PURCHESS :) Date: 18 Oct 1995 06:15:36 GMT Organization: CompuServe, Inc. (1-800-689-0736) The fact that your rattan is of the yellow variety is the first good thing, the darker and blotchier the better. you should first consider wrapping the striking area with a layer of fiberglass strapping tape as it helps to prevent splitting and will add life to the "blade". After that, duct tape. You should also consider using black duct tape for your "edgees" instead of vinyl electrical tape as it also lasts longer and vinyl tape once cut will soon fall away under hard usage. If you desire to shape your grip, use a wood rasp and not a knife. Rattan skin can be difficult to carve and if cut too deeply can cause splitting. Also, dont shape too deeply or you will someday find that your sword has broken off above the hilt and you will be facing your opponent with only hilt and shield. Quite embarassing. Finnian MacLeod From: Garick Chamberlin Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: first RATTAN PURCHESS :) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 00:27:02 GMT Organization: Drachenwald In article <462628$4kh$1 at mhadf.production.compuserve.com> 75252.742 at CompuServe.COM "Paul Greene" writes: > The fact that your rattan is of the yellow variety is the first > good thing, the darker and blotchier the better. you should For long life that is, it tends to be much denser and, therefore, much stronger, but it is also much heavier. I generaly go with lighter rattan, even though it won't last as long, but I have a war sword made of the world's densest 1 3/8 inch rattan that has lasted several years. Most of my tourney swords last about 6 weeks. (What can I say? I abuse the poor things) > first consider wrapping the striking area with a layer of > fiberglass strapping tape as it helps to prevent splitting and > will add life to the "blade". Absolutely agree!! After that, duct tape. Duct tape doesn't add much strenth to the sword, so don't waste weight and tape by putting alot on. Though many people spiral wrap their swords with duct tape, I advise against it. It is easier to get a smooth finished product, faster, cheaper and lighter to use three long vertical strips of duct tape. > cut will soon fall away under hard usage. If you desire to shape > your grip, use a wood rasp and not a knife. Rattan skin can be > difficult to carve and if cut too deeply can cause splitting. > Also, dont shape too deeply or you will someday find that your > sword has broken off above the hilt and you will be facing your > opponent with only hilt and shield. Quite embarassing. Hmmm. I dont agree with this one. I *always* whittle my hilts. A wood rasp is good for removing the skin, which can indeed be difficult to cut, but finishing with the smoothness of a knife-blade makes a much more precision grip. I carve my grips down *quite* small, as I feel it gives better control. I carve them until when griping my fingers almost touch the heel of my hand. Not only does this give me more control over the sword, it is more in line with period broadsword hilts. I have *never* had a sword break, or even mush at or near the hilt. I would also advise carving the hilt in an oval, which fits the hand better and is more in line with real sword hilts than a circle. In answer to a couple of the original poster's questions. I would *NOT* shave the skin off your stick (except at the hilt) as something like 40% of rattan's strenth is in the skin. If weight considerations *force* you to shave it down, shave equal amounts of both sides of the blade, but leave the skin on the front and back striking surfaces. In regaurd to the "wobbles" in your stick, make sure that when you build your sword these don't go sideways. It is ok if they conform to the striking surfaces (i.e. curved like a saber or wavy like a kris), but if they curve sideways it will never balance right, and will change centers of gravity in the midst of shots, thus never flying quite right. Hope this helps. -- Garick Honor Virtus Est From: kolsoft at inlink.com (kolsoft) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: first RATTAN PURCHESS :) Date: 18 Oct 1995 19:55:01 GMT Organization: Inlink In article <4610ss$m48 at bert.compusmart.ab.ca>, jsilver at compusmart.ab.ca says... > >I bought my first stick of rattan today, not bad looking, little wobbles here >and there, ( was the best of the 3 ), BUT it had some weird cuts/scratchs on >it, they looked semi , I know that is vague, does any one know what the hell I >am talking about? :) > > ok now for the real stuff. :) how does one go about getting it ready for >fighting? It is yellow rattan, do you remove the bark ( it that is bark ) or >do you just DUCT TAPE it and away you go? > >I know these are old questions, but hey every one is a beginer some time ( or >at least i hope some are :) ) Greetings, my ethereal friend! The scratches/marks may be left by burrowing insects. Not much you can do about them, but as long as they're along the surface of the stick and not actually going in, I wouldn't worry. Check with somebody who has the "Known World Handbook"; that should tell you a lot about what to do with the rattan, aside from the stuff I've told you. Swinging swords (and polearms, and maces, and warhammers...) Vicente Cuenca kolsoft at inlink.com From: minpsych at radix.net (Magor) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: first RATTAN PURCHESS :) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 95 21:21:50 GMT Organization: RadixNet Internet Services In article <4610ss$m48 at bert.compusmart.ab.ca>, jsilver at compusmart.ab.ca (GORGON) wrote: >I bought my first stick of rattan today, not bad looking, little wobbles here >and there, ( was the best of the 3 ), BUT it had some weird cuts/scratchs on >it, they looked semi , I know that is vague, does any one know what the hell I >am talking about? :) > Gorgon, Come to think of it I too was once a beginer with my first stave of rattan. In the years since then I have developed a method of making swords that I will be happy to share with you. I encourage and even request that other fighters comment on this method and contribute thier own ideas. 1. Leave the "bark" on!!! This is the strongest part of the rattan. If you remove the skin the fibers inside will pulp leaving you with a soft, week and broken sword. If the rattan you are using is too thick or heavy you can shave the sides of it. Be sure not to make the sword thiner than 1 1/4 inches. An old fashion draw knife works very well for shaving rattan, if you don't have one try a sharp meat cleaver. 2. Protect the striking edge of the rattan by placeing a piece of leather or rubber on the "sweet spot". I use a one inch wide by eight inch long piece of 6-8 oz. leather and tape it to the bare rattan starting at the tip of the sword. Don't use anything hard or metal, we are all friends here, ok sometimes enemies too :) 3. Run two or three peices of strapping/fiberglass tape down the striking edge. This too helps to protect it. Rap the tip of the sword tightly with strapping tape, this helps hold the tip together and keeps it from flowering. Next rap the length of the blade with strapping tape, I use two layers. Don't use duct tape, it just gets chewed up and turns into lumps of crud over time. Duct tape is heavy and not very strong, if you can tear it with your fingers how strong can it be? The only use I see for duct tape is to run a couple of strips of it down a finished sword in order to give it that silver look. I personally don't bother. Mark the edge with contrasting tape. 4. Thrusting tips, some say yea some say nay. The use of trailer hitch covers is an old and widely used practice. I cut my covers down to half their original height and then cut two or three one inch slits up the bottom so it conforms to the stick better. Two layers of closed cell foam inside the cover is adequate padding. To get it to stay on the stick just use lots of strapping tape. I have heard it said that in the West some people advocate putting a rock in the tip, however, that practice is not recommended, check you local bylaws. 5. The handle is very important and often neglected. It is through your hand that you control your sword and like a baseball pitcher if you change your grip you can make that sword/ball do different things. Through experimentation my handle choice is an oval grip that is slightly fatter in the palm of my hand and narrows toward the fingers. Play around with shapes, you will find one that fits you best. Some people tape their handles to improve grip, friction tape, handle bar tape and racket handle tape are all good choices. 6. A basket hilt is the only way to go IMHO. I like them large enough to give the back of my hand protection. Get a muffler clamp welded to the top of the basket, this is much more secure than those hose clamps. I put a bent penny under the clamp to keep it from cutting into the rattan. Good luck and I hope to see you on the field, Magor From: condotieri at aol.com (Condotieri) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: first RATTAN PURCHESS :) Date: 25 Oct 1995 09:13:14 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) I like to put a golf tube over the rattan before treating it (either putting leather under the strapping tape or not.) My swords tend to last a long time, and it's not only due to the fact that I'm fat and lazy. Sir Severin Visconti DiMilano Wyvernwood, Trimaris From: smithda at interserv.com Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Need Rattan!!! Date: 29 Nov 1995 12:54:03 GMT Organization: InterServ News Service > jmcc999 at aol.com (JMcC999) writes: > I am in seach of a source of rattan for weapons. We are starting a > Household and are in dire need of rattan and helms. Any help in this area > and we would be greatly appreciative. > John the Madwand >>>> I have had good luck with this supplier: Frank's Cane and Rush Supply 7252 Heil Avenue Huntington Beach, Ca 92647 (714) 847-0707 I ordered ==> Rattan Pole with Skin 1 3/8" Dia <== Qty 25, Unit Price 9.78 This order was placed 2/12/93, so some items may have changed (like the price! ) Reinhard von Stettin, Knight Marshal for the College of Yarnvid in the Barony of Caer Mear, Altlantia Squire to His Grace, the Duke Sir Bertrand de Flammepoing Barry Sable and Or, within a Bordure Or, an Eagle Displayed Gules From: caladin at io.com (eric brown) To: ansteorra at eden.com Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 00:57:55 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: FW: Rattan On Mon, 8 Jul 1996 05:41:28 -0500 Vaargard Malorius wrote: >I am trying to find a supplier of raatan in the Houston (or preferably >Bryan/College Station) area. If anyone knows ANYONE I can contact for a >fiew pieces, please send me a phone # or address. It'd be much appreciated! > >-Kevin check, creditcard or money order, Franks Cane an Rush will deliver to your door, if you allow them to cut in at 6' or under.. tell them you want ratten for the SCA, 1 & 3/8 inch is what they reccommend because 1 & 1/4 is the AVERAGE width, and they will not guarentee legality of the stick. 714-847-0707 ================================================================= Caladin Ironhearth, | Eric W. Brown Bryn Gwlad, | 3229 Parkhills Dr. Scotland, 1595 | Austin, Tx, 78746 | (512)329-8643 ================================================================= Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: Hrothgar Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 09:01:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Wanted: Rattan... In article <4sugrl$3lt at buffnet2.buffnet.net>, mikel at buffnet.net (Michael Fiegel) wrote: > Where can I purchase rattan of the quality necessary for weapons, and how > much can I expect to pay for it? I am new to the Society, and so I'm > unfamiliar with these sorts of things. What I am already well aware of, > however, is that there is little to no rattan available in the > Buffalo/Western New York area (Barony of the Rhydderich Hael, Aethelmerc, > East Kingdom) You can call HH Perkins Co. for their catalog at 203-389-9501. I just bought (via UPS) 2 rattans staves 8 feet long that are good quality and fairly ;~) straight. Their current price for them is $17.00 each plus postage. Inter-Mares Trading Co. is cheaper, but you have to buy in lots of 25. Their number is 800-229-2263. Illusion Armor also sells a 36" stave for $10.00, and a 9 foot stave for $25. Hope this helps, Hrothgar From: Nick Marcelja Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Wanted: Rattan... Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 08:09:05 -0700 Organization: CIM Greetings, Here is a list of rattan suppliers on the west coast. All of these know about the sca and you can ask for "sca weapons grade rattan". Frank's Cane & Rush Supply San Diago 714-847-0707 will ship entire bundles 100+ sticks. not sorted. Long poles 12 feet. cost before shipping 17+ a pole LA Cane Basket 800-468-3966 213-939-9644 15.50 for 1 1/2 thick 9 foot long 17.50 for 1 5/8 19.50 for 1 3/4 Best source. I can order on monday and have a bundle (10) here by friday. 9 foot limit is for UPS shipping. Shipping costs for me usually add about 2$ to the price of each stick. The Caning Shop 926 Gilman Street, Berkeley, CA 94710 (510) 527-5010 cost 18+ a pole. -- Nick Marcelja marcelja at sharpwa.com or nam at grendal.rain.com From: BQGU77A at prodigy.com (Bobbi Gordon) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: WANTED: Rattan Date: 27 Jul 1996 02:42:29 GMT Organization: Prodigy Services Company 1-800-PRODIGY Someone posted a phone number that I copied down for a catalogue that you can order rattan from. It was: HH Perkins Co (203)389-9501 Hope that'll help. Lady Dragana of Meridies From: rhiannon at cybercomm.net (Pam Herbert) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Rattan Date: Thu, 05 Sep 96 04:09:10 GMT Organization: CyberComm Online Services You might want to try this company I found in Lakewood NJ (which is local for me). Bamboo & Rattan Works 470 Oberlin Ave. South Lakewood NJ 08701 Phone: 1-800-422-6266 in NJ phone:(908)370-0220 FAX: (908)905-8386 When calling tell them it's for SCA combat, they'll understand. I have been getting rattan from them for several years and the quality is very good. They ship anywhere in the world too. Yours in service, Lady Bridget O'Donnell Barony of Carillon EK From: Nick Marcelja Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: ???Rattan??? Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 12:48:35 -0700 Organization: CIM Terry Aucoin wrote: > > Hey where can I get rattan from??? > its not sold where I live in Baton Rouge, La > how much does a sword length cost? -- Try Cane and Basket Supply Co. 213-939-9644 about 15.50 for 1 and 1/2 inch by 9 foot long pole. Plus shipping. They know about SCA and will select straight poles for you. They ship UPS. It takes about 3-4 days to get to you. Nick Marcelja marcelja at sharpwa.com or nam at grendal.rain.com From: ejpiii at delphi.com Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: ???Rattan??? Date: Thu, 24 Oct 96 00:11:01 -0500 Terry Aucoin writes: >Hey where can I get rattan from??? >its not sold where I live in Baton Rouge, La >how much does a sword length cost? Try MArtinez rattan in Union City NJ. Tell them you want raw, unpeeled rattan. Don't be afraid to tell them you're SCA, they're familiar. There are others, and I'm sure it can be found closer to you, but if no one gets back to you, at least you've got a lead. Eddward From: David Gunter Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: ???Rattan??? Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 08:51:23 -0400 Organization: Independent Consultant Terry Aucoin wrote: > Hey where can I get rattan from??? > its not sold where I live in Baton Rouge, La > how much does a sword length cost? I've had good luck ordering from Frank's Cane and Rush Supply in Huntington Beach, CA. 714-847-0707. You can tell them that you're SCA, and they will understand what type of rattan you want. Ciaran mac Breandain Elvegast, Windmaster's Hill, Atlantia ciaran at pobox.com Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 02:23:22 -0500 To: ansteorra at eden.com From: caladin at mail.io.com (eric) Subject: Re: Rattan Source Franks cane and rush 714-847-0707 They are supposed to be the primary importer for most ofthe rattan in the usa, meaning if you buy from someone else, they probably bought it from frank.. he's really cool, knows about the sca, keeps special rattan aside fer us i once called on saturday on a whim, and here was there doing office stuff and sold me rattan anyway... He'll sell you 1 1/38" rattan instead of 1 1/4' cause it's an average diameter, but if its fer swords you can try taping the ~1 1/4' at your own risk If you let him cut it to under 6' you can get a 9' stick (a sword and a pole??) delivered to your door for about $15.. (it's been a coupla months so don't quote me) Ask fer straight (enter weight preference here(i say dense, but get 1.25")) rattan for the sca It costs more to ship over 6' ups so if you neet special stuff talk to him... ============================================================================ Caladin Ironhearth Esq. | Eric W. Brown Scotland - 1596 | 1905 B Margalene Way, (look fer me by the keg, laddie!) | Austin Texas 78731 | H (512)990-8326 | W (512)238-3227 ============================================================================ From: "Larry D. McCoy" Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Shaping Rattan Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 16:38:29 -0700 Organization: Knight Wynd Computer Services Matthew Saroff wrote: > I want to shape some rattan to put a bend in some weapons for a > peasants tourney. What is the best way to do this? I have some Rattan > sitting in the bathtub, and I see no signs of it becoming pliable. First off, get it out of the water.. Hang in the garage for a few days till it quits dripping.. ok, now it should be ready to bend.. You didn't mention if it had the husk on or off. I hope it's on still, otherwise you've probably ruined it.. Anyway.. take it outside to the curb, decide where you want it to bend, and stand on it while yourself or a friend lifts the long end.. it'll bend, but remember, that it's like some metals that must be overbent to hold their shape where you want it to bend. For real tight bends, you'll want to use a three roller system where the rollers are set just slightly wider than the rattan is thick. ie. _ / \ Roller 1 \_/ _ _ / \ / \ roller 2 \_/ \_/ roller 3 years ago i did this using three peices of 4x4 4 inches tall. put them on a small sheet of 1/2" plywood with washered bolts. Worked well. with them I could get bends of over 90 degrees without major effort.. Trelaine From: james koch Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Shaping Rattan Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 16:27:25 -0400 Organization: alchem inc Matthew Saroff wrote: > I want to shape some rattan to put a bend in some weapons for a > peasants tourney. What is the best way to do this? I have some Rattan > sitting in the bathtub, and I see no signs of it becoming pliable. > -- > --Sfi Mordehai ben Yosef Yitzhak, Aka Matthew G. Saroff Matthew, The secret of bending wood was discovered by the Egyptians in ancient times. They found that wood steamed over dung fires became plastic and could be easily bent. Upon setting it regained its rigidity. They associated dung with death and the god Ammon(sp?) and called the smell of burning dung "the breath of Ammon". This is the origin of the word ammonia. Ammonia reacts with the lignin and cellulose in wood to form a plastic. The reaction is reverseable. I once bent a standard piece of ratan to a 45 degree angle over a space of less than 2 inches! I did this as follows. I obtained sulphate of ammonia (ammonium sulphate) fertilizer from the hardware store along with a can of lye (sodium hydroxide). I placed water in a florence flask and added 2 moles of lye to each 1 mole of sulphate of ammonia. This reacted giving sodium sulphate and ammonium hydroxide. I suppose I could have started with a bottle of household ammonia. I placed the end of the stick of ratan in the flask and wrapped the lip with fifth force (duct tape). I then heated the whole slowly on a hot plate. You might want to do this in a well ventilated area. I allowed the thing to cool over night. the next day the ratan bent easily. For longer bends you could use a length of pipe. Gladius From: ejpiii at delphi.com Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Shaping Rattan Date: Mon, 28 Apr 97 23:11:32 -0500 Matthew Saroff writes: > I want to shape some rattan to put a bend in some weapons for a >peasants tourney. What is the best way to do this? I have some Rattan >sitting in the bathtub, and I see no signs of it becoming pliable. Well, I've steamed it much as you would to bend any other wood. It works well, but can be a strain to get a vessel long enough. If you leave it in the tub for several days to a week, then bend it by propping the ends up and weighting or tying the middle down, it will retain the shape pretty well but will over time, need to be rebent. Try that method first, then you can steam if you have to later. Eddward From: Mark Bennett Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Shaping Rattan Date: 2 May 1997 00:13:23 GMT Organization: Dragon Dojo and Schezuan Pizza Parlor > I want to shape some rattan to put a bend in some weapons for a > peasants tourney. What is the best way to do this? I have some Rattan > sitting in the bathtub, and I see no signs of it becoming pliable. HOT water. Boiling water. Try holding it over a large pot of boiling water, with an aluminum foil 'cap' to trap the steam, about 20 minutes per half inch of diameter. it's the heat that does it, rather than the moisture. Alternatively, soak it for a while, then wrap it in a black plastic garbage bag and sit it in the sun while stressed with lots of bungee cords or strips of cut up inner tube. From: excmairi at aol.com (EXCMairi) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Rattan Also Date: 16 May 1997 08:38:23 GMT The best supply house for rattan on the east coast is right in Lakewood, New Jersey! Lakewood Bamboo & Rattan (I don't have the number - call information). They are used to SCAdians and will usually allow you to pick over the staves, you can also buy them in bundles. It's best to call ahead and find out what kind of stock they have and to let them know if you are planning to buy huge amounts. Baroness Mairi From: msaroff at moose.erie.net (Matthew Saroff) Subject: Shaping Rattan -- Update Organization: ErieNet Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 13:36:54 -0400 A while ago, I posted asking questions about shaping Rattan to make some weapons for a peasant's tourney. I figured that I'd post to update everyone. I didn't have the chance to make antlers because my double thick Rattan had not come in, so I fought plowshear and pruning hook. I assumed the peasant identity of "Isiah", which is where the plowshear and pruning hook phrase came from. It was a blast. The pruning hook looked like a question mark with about a 9" bend radius, and the plowshear was basically a very short sword with an "S" bend in it. Now to business: 1) I took a look at the suggestions. I immediately dumped the idea of boiling the rattan in ammonia, as I have a pregnant wife in the house, and she is sensitive to smells. 2) I tried boiling in water and bending, but it discolored the rattan and kinked. The problem was that I needed to get even bending. 3) Going back to my days in engineering school, I remembered 4 point bending. If you put a load on something like this: | | V V ____________________############__________________ ^ ^ | | The maximum bending will be in the area marked with the #####s, and it will be UNIFORM over this length. What I did was to use my wife's exercise bakes, which has a handlebar fork made of 2 1" dia steel tubes about 1 foot apart, and I attached one of the ratcheting luggage straps to either end and pulled it tight. I then took an electric tea kettle (one WITHOUT the thermostat cut off) and set it beneath the rattan, plugged it in, and covered the whole thing with a towel to hold the steam in. As the rattan bent, I would rachet the strap tighter (the one I had was $1 and is rated at 900 lbs). When it was bent to the degree that I wanted it, I tightened the strap again, and turned off the tea kettle and removed the towel and let it cool over night. Results: I got even bends. I also got some divots where the bike forks pressed against the rattan but these were minor, particularly since the rattan had the skin on. A final note. On the way back from the event, when it sat in the back of my car for about 2 hours, the pruning hook did relax about 1-1.5". -- --Sfi Mordehai ben Yosef Yitzhak, Aka Matthew G. Saroff Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 10:09:51 -0500 From: bgarwoo Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Rattan Sources > I am currently trying to compile a list of sources for weapon rattan for > those who find it diificult to get. For those in the Upper Midwest, I recommend: Rattan and Wicker 5101 Parkdale Dr. St. Louis Park, MN 55416 (612)591-1570 They do mail order, and know exactly what we need. I just call and ask for SCA Weapons-grade rattan, and in less than a week I have a bundle of nice stright staves. Berwyn Rudivale, Northshield, Midrealm Grand Forks, ND Subject: Re: ANST - weapons materials Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 13:07:33 MST From: "Shane B." To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG veronica wrote: > I am seeking a purveyer of (rotan, ratan? cane in the Texas area). > I wonder if you might be so kind as to lend aid in this endeavor? > > Lady Veronica > Veronica at topher.net I am not sure right off of any Texas sources but if you call H.L. Perkins company at 800 462-6660 they have a special on rattan staves 8 feet long and up to 2 inches wide at $17 a pole. They will also send you a free price list. Check em out. Alastair Subject: Re: ANST - weapons materials Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 00:26:51 MST From: Dennis and/or Dory Grace To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG Don Brendan queried: >While your at it, does anyone know where I can get fiberglass for >fiberglass spears? Try any place that carries lawn-sprinkler piping. You should have several vendors in your area (though they might have to order the pieces). You need 1.25 inch OD, 1/8th inch wall, pultruded fibreglas. It comes in 20 foot lengths. You can get the required pvc end caps at any Home Depot. lo vostre por vos servir Sir Lyonel Oliver Grace _____________________________ Dennis Grace University of Texas at Austin English Department Recovering Medievalist mailto:amazing at mail.utexas.edu Subject: Re: *WH* War cross Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 14:26:11 -0400 From: rmhowe Organization: Windmaster's Hill, Atlantia, and the GDH To: windmasters at trinet.com Dan Mackison & Hilda Jarvis wrote: > Reading the latest Oak has brought back a polearm design idea I once > had. The idea also springs from once hearing that rattan can be bent > with loving application of steam. > > Before I spend a lot on money I don't have building a rig to steam > rattan I thought I would check to see if anyone else out there had such > a rig or had otherwise attempted to warp rattan. > > Obviously, alternative methods to steam would also be gladly tried. > > What I am trying to do is take two pieces of rattan, 54" and 18". I > split the shorter piece and steam/bend/warp it around the longer piece > 18" from one end and secure it in place to form something like a cross. Well, here in the library I have a book called Rattan Furniture A Home Craftsman's Guide by Max and Charlotte Alth, 1979 ISBN 0-8015-4788-1 It says you can get an 18" diameter bend out of 1 1/4 or a 26" diameter bend out of 1 1/2". But: It sounds like you are trying to make a short U bend in two halves of the 18" piece at their center, while leaving them relatively straight to be joined back together. Commercially they would employ a steambox and perhaps hydraulic presses. However, thick rattan can be bent by wetting it, clamping it in a vise and heating it with a propane torch while repeatedly rewetting it with a wet paint brush. You have to overbend. For furniture they build bending fixtures to fit it into first out of wood blocks and panels. In this case you might want to try binding the ends of the two halfs with wire while putting the whole one between them. Then as you heat them and they bend applying clamps, a rope twisted with a stick (spanish windlass), clamps, etc. until you get it as near as you can. The book suggests repeated heating and rewetting. Expect the outside with silicon to fall off when it is bent. Charring can be sanded off. A good steambox may be built out of a large plastic drain pipe 4-6" with a hole in the middle and a cap on one end, a rag in the other. One mounts this on an x trestle high enough to run a heater hose down to a spout on a metal gasoline can filled with water sitting on a gas cooker (like the kind you boil seafood on at campsites). Fine Woodworking has plans for them. Norm baby also has had one on the New Yankee Workshop. The heater hose fits in the hole in the middle of the pipe. One steams about 1 hour per inch of thickness in most hardwoods. Generally the fixtures overbend the wood a bit. It will spring back a little when cooled and dried. Magnus, repository of obscure materials and processes From: dwbutler at mtu.edu (Daniel W. Butler-Ehle) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: More on Rattan Date: 4 May 1998 20:20:54 -0400 Organization: Michigan Technological University Jason Gurley (gurley at jrwent.com) wrote: : : That might be the best way to obtain rattan, but he doesn't ship : the 9' poles in one piece. He should look into that again. A couple years back, a buddy of mine wanted to get rattan shipped from Plymouth Reed & Cane (in Plymouth, MI--I believe they are now defunct, but you can check). They told him they couldn't ship the 9' staves (and wanted to charge a buck or so for cutting them). He, being a UPS driver, informed them that UPS's new shipping restrictions allowed up to 108" (9 feet). Rattan staves seem to be 9' plus or minus six inches. The shorter ones should be shippable without problem. Ulfin From: Jon and Debbie Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: More on Rattan Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 22:12:21 -0400 Daniel W. Butler-Ehle wrote: >He should look into that again. A couple years back, a buddy of mine wanted to get rattan shipped >from Plymouth Reed & Cane (in Plymouth, MI--I believe they are now defunct, but you can check). >They told him they couldn't ship the 9' staves (and wanted to charge a buck or so for cutting them). >He, being a UPS driver, informed them that UPS's new shipping restrictions allowed up to 108" (9 >feet). Rattan staves seem to be 9' plus or minus six inches. The shorter ones should be shippable >without problem. I just checked with my FedEx account rep (wow.. I feel important.. *S*) and if I can get them to ship it FedEx, there is a maximum of 119", so I foresee no problem in getting 9' lengths. Thanks guys for the info! -- Sir Iain MacGuadhre of Ulva, Duke of Windemere Subject: rattan Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 19:35:21 -0400 From: "Bryan S. McDaniel" To: sca-middle at midrealm.org, atlantia at atlantia.sca.org, TY at reashelm.ce.utk.edu Found on the Trimarian list - Kestrel of Wales ------ Forwarded Message Follows ------- EXCELLENT rattan source at www.hhperkins.com - check their catalogue – they are SCA friendly Dilestair fid dy hynt, ac ni rusia ddim rhagot. Bryan S. McDaniel SCA aka Kestrel of Wales http://kestrel.hawk.org From: "Ed Shelton" Date: Sun May 11, 2003 12:02:11 AM US/Central To: sorenredhammer at yahoo.com, SCA-Seawinds at yahoogroups.com, ansteorra at ansteorra.org Subject: [Ansteorra] Re: siloflex problem > We have encountered a problem with siloflex tubes. It seems that under the > right conditions the rattan can launch out of the tube like a missle. Be > warned: this is incredibly hazardous!I have sent all pertinent information > to the Earl Marshall and await his decision on the matter. There will be a > temporary ban on all siloflex swords on any official combat field in > Seawinds until the Earl Marshal can resolve this safety issue. I have been using siloflex swords for years and have never experienced the problem you describe. However, my method of construction is probably different than the swords with which you have had trouble. I take a sword length stick of rattan that is 1 1/16 to 1 1/4 inches in outside diameter. The siloflex having an inside diameter of 1 inch. I then place the siloflex in a 3" PVC sewer pipe of suitable length and put a hair dryer set on hot in the end of the pipe. I let the hair dryer heat the siloflex for a few minutes and then remove the siloflex and insert the rattan into it using a 3 lb. deadblow mallet. After driving the rattan in a few inches, I then place the rattan and siloflex back into the PVC "oven" so that the next few inches of siloflex that the rattan hasn't reached yet is ready for reheating and turn on the hair dryer again. After a few minutes of heating, I remove both and drive the rattan further into the siloflex. I repeat this procedure until the entire rattan stave is sheathed in the siloflex. When the siloflex cools it shrinks completely onto the rattan and is irremovable by anything save cutting it off with a very sharp knife. I trim the excess siloflex and carve a grip making sure to leave at least one strip of siloflex the entire length of grip and blade. My blades are massive enough to give a good solid feel to the blows struck since the rattan core is almost a legal sword on its own and will last almost indefinitely. I would be happy to demonstrate this technique if anyone is interested is seeing it. Yours in service, Giotto Coastal Regional Knight Marshal From: "caladin" Date: Wed Jul 16, 2003 2:28:18 PM US/Central To: , Subject: [Ansteorra] Re: Ansteorra Digest, Vol 2, Issue 25 The following place is the best to get rattan IMHO, "Franks Cane and Rush" in California (714-847-0707, http://www.franksupply.com/ ), This link and instructions on how to ask for the rattan to get the best quality and shipping price are on my "How to make a sword" page here http://www.io.com/~caladin/sword.htm Caladin- From: "zubeydah at northkeep.org" Date: Wed Jul 16, 2003 2:43:08 PM US/Central To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org Subject: RE: [Ansteorra] Re: Ansteorra Digest, Vol 2, Issue 25 I can personally attest to Frank's Cane and Rush's selection, and quality merchandise, having gone there many times while living in Southern California. It's a nifty place to stop by, if you're ever in Orange County, and have need for thwacky sticky types of things. -zubeydah From: Eric Brown Date: April 12, 2005 10:01:56 AM CDT To: Barony of Bryn Gwlad Subject: RE: [Bryn-gwlad] Rattan Dealer On Apr 11, 2005, at 11:48 PM, John Cooney wrote: > Can anyone point me to the local rattan dealer. > Jean Just get it from franks cane and rush.. Unless you want it for larger than 6' staves (the shipping is higher) They will ship it to you for less than most local places. This is because thy are the US primary importer, IE everyone else buys it from them. There is a link and a phone # on my sword making page www.io.com\~caladin\ click on the how to make a sword link. Cal- From: Eric Brown Date: April 12, 2005 10:12:22 AM CDT To: Barony of Bryn Gwlad Subject: RE: [Bryn-gwlad] Rattan Dealer http://www.franksupply.com/rattan.html#rattanwithskin There is the link directly to the rattan with skin on. They suggest you order 1 3/8" since it's an average diameter, not a min diameter and 1 1/4" will have spots below legal diameter, even after taping. I buy a 9' stave, and have them cut a sword length off one end. This Results in the other end being about 6'. If it's 6' or under you get A MUCH better shipping rate. Cal- From: YSFAEL at aol.com Date: September 12, 2007 1:49:43 AM CDT To: bryn-gwlad at lists.ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Bryn-gwlad] More on rattan orders In a message dated 9/11/2007 6:05:46 PM Central Daylight Time, sirlyonel at hotmail.com writes: <<< 3. I picked up a couple of poles from IceFalcon at GW. I believe they were 1.375" average diameter. They seemed a little on the thick side, frankly. However, I've just checked IceFalcon's site, and they are advertising 9'-10' Manal rattan (unstated thickness) for $15 or 25 staves for $13.50 apiece. I need to check with both sources and find out who has the best prices for minimum 1.25" staves. >>> I'm skimming through the posts so if I missed something ... We have been buying from H H Perkins for quite a while now ... That is where HG Icefalcon buys his ... If you request a minimum thickness they will accomodate you (...Martel...) If you buy in quantity there is a discount. They ship 9+ foot staves Last time we purchased, couple of years ago, they had skinned rattan at 1" dia. (great for siloflex) and it was part of the quantity discount and priced the same as the rest. They will pull SCA sword rattan if you tell them tha tis what it is for (but hey aren't SCA so your mileage may vary) Finally, and this is probably off, the last time we bought 50 staves, the freight came to about 2$/ stave. Peace, Ysfael Nemo me impune lacessit From: kcmarsh at suddenlink.net Date: September 12, 2007 8:46:33 AM CDT To: Barony of Bryn Gwlad Subject: Re: [Bryn-gwlad] speaking of rattan It is probably quite usable, but it will likely be very dry and therefore may not last as long as fresher rattan. If it is used in swords or greatswords it might pulp fairly quickly. It would probably serve very well for polearms or spears. I recently retired a 20+ year old rattan glaive shaft that had served me well. If I hadn't converted it to an unpadded glaive it would probably have lasted much longer. Did you want to donate it, sell it, or get someone to come haul it away? How many staves are there? Maelgwyn ---- Jay Yeates wrote: > Recently was helping a ex-scadian clean out a property they are prepping for > sale, and found some long staves of rattan, likely close to 20 years old > stored in the garage attic rafters long ago and forgotten (no apparent > insect damage). > > Any good or fodder for the next fire-pit burning? > > 'wolf From: Sir Giotto di Giovanni Date: September 13, 2007 8:54:34 PM CDT To: Barony of Bryn Gwlad Subject: Re: [Bryn-gwlad] speaking of rattan I'll second that! But I will say that Uther still has some usable weapons in the garage that are twenty plus years old. He should bring one out to practice so he can bop one of the new fighters and say "you just got hit with a sword older than you are". heh Giotto On 9/12/07, Eric W. Brown wrote: Worst case the Barony could make marshalling staves out of it... :) Cal- -----Original Message----- On Tue, 11 Sep 2007, Jay Yeates < jyeates at realtime.net> wrote: > Recently was helping a ex-scadian clean out a property they are prepping for > sale, and found some long staves of rattan, likely close to 20 years old > stored in the garage attic rafters long ago and forgotten (no apparent > insect damage). > > Any good or fodder for the next fire-pit burning? From: michael young Date: September 13, 2007 9:33:02 PM CDT To: bryn-gwlad at lists.ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Bryn-gwlad] speaking of rattan The greatsword I used in the last tiny tourney is about 20 years old. Still works. ;-> I also still have my 1st SCA helm and the broomed remains of my 1st sword. Centurion Uther Pack Rat of the Sable Star From: "Randy Nicholson" Date: December 9, 2008 8:22:24 AM CST To: "'Barony of Bryn Gwlad'" Subject: Re: [Bryn-gwlad] Rattan purchasing... There are a lot of SCA merchants that carry rattan but I have had better luck calling these guys direct. Just tell them that you're with the SCA and they know what you need. http://www.franksupply.com/ Robert From: "Jean Paul de Sens" Date: December 9, 2008 8:36:09 AM CST To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Rattan purchasing... http://www.icefalcon.com Best prices, best service IMO. JP From: zubeydah@northkeep.org Date: December 9, 2008 8:37:07 AM CST To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Rattan purchasing... Quoting SoldierGrrrl : <<< Does anyone have a reliable, favorite rattan supplier? Helena >>> While I personally have not ordered from him, I have heard nothing but good reviews of Icefalcon Armoury (www.icefalcon.com), owned by Duke Andreas Eisfalke (though, I think he's Prince of the East at the moment, title wise). His company has multiple positive reviews on The Armour Archive. Zubeydah Jamilla al-Badawiyyah From: "Susan Scott" Date: December 9, 2008 9:14:54 AM CST To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Rattan purchasing... <<< While I personally have not ordered from him, I have heard nothing but good reviews of Icefalcon Armoury (www.icefalcon.com), owned by Duke Andreas Eisfalke (though, I think he's Prince of the East at the moment, title wise). His company has multiple positive reviews on The Armour Archive. Zubeydah Jamilla al-Badawiyyah >>> I have serious issues with Icefalcon's business practices. I have not ordered rattan from him, just armor, but I will never do business with him again. You can email me if you want details. Gwenneth Bowynne of Glamorgan Bryn Gwlad From: Sir Lyonel Oliver Grace Date: December 9, 2008 2:36:28 PM CST To: Barony of Bryn Gwlad , "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] [Bryn-gwlad] Rattan purchasing 101 Well, Helena, you've now heard the three best available sources for rattan in the SCA: Ice Falcon, Franks Cane and Rush, and H. H. Perkins. I can tell you that all three have their detractors. I used to order from Franks regularly when I lived out in Idaho, but they have a less than stellar reputation with the SCA in recent years. SCAers are always trying to get a bargain, and I think they just got tired of dealing with us. With all three, your best value will be obtained with full length poles (9' or 10 ' depending on the vendor. The best prices I've seen in recent years were those Centurion Eleanor got from H. H. Perkins. The best quote I could get in 2007 were from Ice Falcon. I would be happy to make a purchase again in the summer. For now, my back's just to messed up to deal with it. My last dealings with Ice Falcon were satisfactory. We ordered multiple 10' lengths and a few fibreglas spear poles. If you catch him late Saturday or early Sunday at Gulf Wars, you might be able to get bargains on rattan, but he usually sells out of fibreglas early. Here are a few rules of thumb I would recommend: (1) If you need just a few sword blanks, try purchasing them from locals who still have them in stock. Sir Godwin is not far away, if he still has any. Instead of asking for input on a supplier, you might first ask if anyone has rattan they'd be willing to sell. (2) If you have enough interest to order rattan from a supplier, you can handle it two ways. I've used both methods. (a) Take orders and get the money up front. Don't order for anyone unless they hand you the money, but if you take money be sure you find out what size range each person will accept. To use this method, you'll need a solid outside estimate for shipping costs. Get a receipt book, and give everyone a receipt for cash received. Yes, we're all friends here, but this kind of care will ensure that we stay that way. (b) Make a large purchase on your own dime. This will run you a few hundred dollars. It's less complicated than purchasing for individuals, but you don't need to request sticks to suit everyone's individual preferences. The down side of this is that you might end up storing rattan poles in your garage (or someone's garage) for a year or more. (3) Ask the suppliers about special purchases. Duke Eisfalcon charges extra for thicker poles, for example. (4) If you're dealing with H. H. Perkins or Frank's, be sure to specify that this is for SCA combat and that you need the straightest sticks available. (5) Resist the urge to purchase the sword-blank size. It's a bit short for many Ansteorran fighters, and it's usually a lousy deal, costwise. (6) Find someone with access to a commercial shipping and receiving dock at their office. This, of course, will require that you have someone with a pickup truck or similar conveyance willing to make pickups for you. The shipping is much cheaper to a commercial address. (7) This irritates a few folks, but calculate your per-foot costs (including estimated shipping) in order to make a small profit: no more than about 5% to 10%. This may sound mercenary to some, but in all likelihood, it will disappear. The shipping estimates are occasionally wrong, and some of your orders will fall through (people will swear they want the poles, but their finances will dry up, or they just won't be available for collections). You can always refund a little change if you make money. Beats scrounging for the difference if you underestimate the costs. (8) No matter who you choose as your supplier, talk with them on the phone. Look at their Web sites, but talk to them directly. Don't be satisfied with just exchanging voice messages. These guys are often willing to make offers that aren't on their Web sites. (9) Duke (currently, His Royal Highness of the East) Andreas Eisfalcon comes across as gruff and all-business, but he's a pretty nice guy. I also found Frank to be reasonable on the phone (again, that was some years ago). (10) Before contacting H. H. Perkins, you might want to chat with Centurion Eleanor. I believe she has a contact there. Sir Ysfael (Ysfael@aol.com) can put you in contact with her. Franks Cane and Rush: http://www.franksupply.com/ Ice Falcon Arms: http://store.fastcommerce.com/home_icefalcon.html H. H. Perkins: http://www.hhperkins.com/products/rattan_swords/ En Lyonel From: "Eric W. Brown" Date: December 9, 2008 3:30:36 PM CST To: Subject: Re: [Bryn-gwlad] Rattan purchasing 101 (Sir Lyonel Oliver Grace) If you just need a few sword blanks, you can often buy 1-2 poles, Pay to have them cut to your sword length and save enough on the shipping to make it worth it. The trick is there is a price break on shipping at under 6’ in length. I’ve always dealt with Franks, I order at least 1 more stick than I need, have ‘em cut to 2 sword lengths. And the scrap shipped along too to make mass weapons and such out of. I don’t think I’ve every paid more than $20 a pole, cut and shipped to my door, but I have not done the math the last few times to be sure. Cal- From: jareuter1066@sbcglobal.net Date: April 11, 2009 3:35:47 AM CDT To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] thick rattan <<< If anyone has really thick/wide rattan that they would be willing to sell me I would willingly buy it from you. If specifically looking to 2 1/2 - 3 inch rattan. Jovian Skleros Bryn Gwlad >>> Jovian, I surely hope that you do not plan to shave that down to width. If you do PLEASE roll the edges if you do. My first visit to Pensic ended up with a broken arm on a monday morning Drachenvald prize tourney back in 93'. A Locack squire with ( and I quote Sir Fin Kelly; two curved swords that looked like 2 x 4's in basket hilts ) we faught and after not being able to realy get a clean shot in on each other we set each other up for the obvious opening and he broke my right arm just behind the wrist. I had hardened saddle skirting vams with steal reiforcing them. Needless to say the Marshalet court said his weapons were not legal and they should not have been used. The squire had to roll the edges on the 3 inch rattan that he shaved down. Sooooo please for pitty sake be kind to your fellow fighters if you shave them down! Spent the rest of Pensic water bearing and watching some one fight with my armor all week with my arm in a cast. Have a good one..........every one! Baron Brian du Val Raven's Fort From: John Date: April 13, 2010 5:17:31 PM CDT To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] rattan Not local but a business run by a SCA member with a excellent rep. http://stores.mastereirik.com/StoreFront.bok Email him to see what he has in stock. Iaen From: John Yates Date: April 13, 2010 5:28:23 PM CDT To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] rattan I went with Frank's Cane & Rush Supply in California a couple of times, and they went above and beyond in making up a mistake. Just a couple of weeks ago, I got in a batch of thick rattan from Eirik that Iaen mentions. I'm very pleased with the sticks look, and he seels regular rattan, a straightened rattan, and occasinally considerably thicker than 1 1/4" rattan. Val From: Eric Brown Date: August 6, 2010 4:05:41 PM CDT To: bryn-gwlad@lists.ansteorra.org Subject: [Bryn-gwlad] Rattan source Here is where I get rattan, there are other places http://www.franksupply.com/bamboo/rattan-poles.html#9rattan Ask for 1-3/8" straight dense rattan for the sca to make swords If you have them cut it under 72" it's ALOT cheaper to ship (and i'd get a couple staves) I get 2 swords lengths cut out of it and have the other piece whatever is left, depending on the rattan(and how long your swords are) it'll be longer or shorter than a sword. Cal- From: Sir Giotto di Giovanni Date: August 6, 2010 5:14:00 PM CDT To: Barony of Bryn Gwlad Subject: Re: [Bryn-gwlad] Rattan source On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 5:02 PM, Fields Family Farm wrote: <<< Should we order skin on, or skin off? I'm pretty sure that years ago we got them with skin off (or took it off ourselves), but I seem to remember someone at a recent fighter practice saying that we leave the skin on now? Hrethric/Rick >>> Get them skin on. Without the skin, I can pulp a sword in a single practice. Giotto From: Marlin and Amanda Stout Date: August 6, 2010 9:50:29 PM CDT To: Barony of Bryn Gwlad Subject: Re: [Bryn-gwlad] Rattan source Fields Family Farm wrote: <<< Should we order skin on, or skin off? I'm pretty sure that years ago we got them with skin off (or took it off ourselves), but I seem to remember someone at a recent fighter practice saying that we leave the skin on now? >>> It's a matter of preference. Skinless rattan is lighter, therefore easier to swing fast. However, it's also a *lot* more fragile than rattan with the skin still on it. I've seen fighters shave the skin off, build a new sword friday night at the event, and break it halfway through saturday's fighting. Oops, need a new sword, there... OTOH I've had the same sword last for several years of fighting; I always use skin-on rattan. Just depends on how much practice you want building swords. Charles From: Sir Lyonel Date: August 6, 2010 10:25:18 PM CDT To: Barony of Bryn Gwlad Subject: Re: [Bryn-gwlad] Rattan source I used skinless rattan in siloflex for years. Lighter than skin-on rattan and usually lasts longer. Downside: some Atlantians won't take your shots. One Atlantian Duke wailed like tail-stomped housecat because a wrap I laid across his butt went a bit beyond the rear plate on his cuisse. After jumping up and down and cursing for two minutes, he explained that the shot was too light because a lightweight sword delivered it. The next day, he was running around showing off his purple thigh. En Lyonel Edited by Mark S. Harris rattan-msg Page 25 of 33