rattan-msg – 1/27/08
Working with rattan. Rattan and fiberglass sources for SCA combat.
NOTE: See also the files: wood-bending-msg, SCAweapons-msg, quarterstaff-msg, axes-msg, swords-msg.
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Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: kopp0614 at nova.gmi.EDU (Adam Hill Koppy)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: straighting rattan
Date: 23 Aug 1993 13:08:06 -0400
the problem is a bent piece of rattan needs to be straight
lashing it to a piece of angle iron and soaking it will and will not work
it will remove some of the bend but the rattan will most likely spring back
some.
what i would try is to over straighten the piece and use very hot water
or steam.
here is the first of two methods i would recommend
the peice is now like this
\________/
attach it to something that won't bend (4x4, angle iron, be creative) with
clamps or maybe screws. V-blocks would be helpful or carve flat spots on the
ends |
/
/
clamp>__/
----------------------------
now soak in HOT water or live steam (you might have this at work) and bend
the peice down and place a spacer in between the peice and the straight
edge so that the rattan has a bow the oppiside way. be careful not to
twist the rattan.
___________
clamp> __/ O \___ <clamp
------------------
now let this set over night and is should (read cross fingers and pray) be
straight.
OR the simpler way
find an old tree with a v of two branches put on as heavy pair of gloves
warm the rattan by either soaking it or pouring hot water over it place it
between the branches and tweek it srtaight. this is how ive normally seen
it done.
either method the heat is very important without the heat the rattan will
want to bend back to its original shape
another trick is in your water add faboric softener this helps when bending
wood but may not be wanted in rattan since it will make it more flexible
perminantly.
on a differant topic who did The Great Dark Horde (that's classic) fight
for?
forgive the spelling
AHKoppy
From: harald at matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Harold Kraus Jr)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Straightening rattan, and sword sizes
Date: 24 Aug 1993 15:24:47 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
The good Gabrielle writes:
>haven't actually measured it). It's badly curved, but I was told that
>straightening it out is pretty trivial. Ok, but how do you do it?
I stumbled upon a very good (if seasonal) method of bending rattan
at Lillies VII. There had been considerable rainfall the previous
two days so the ground was soaked. My weapons had been sitting in
the wet grass in full Calontir July sunlight for the whole morning
when I discovered that they were all warped. Efectively, my weapons
were being steamed. The rattan was very pliant and I could bend and
staighten the pieces quite readily. I straightened my warped rattan
weapons and put them in the shade to cool and "set" and my weapons
have been fine since.
I find that this could be a convienent method for steam forming
rattan, especially for peices that are too long to fit in any
available oven. I recomend starting in the morning of a forcasted
sunny and hot (90+) day. Find a sunny patch of ground soaked by
rainfall or domestic water. Let your rattan set there through the
noon hour and do your forming in the early to middle afternoon.
(I have seen grass steamed rattan get bend with just a morning sun)
Covering the grass and rattan with a sheet of clear plastic
would intensify the steaming.
Steam bending is a basic technique for wood forming. One method
for steaming wood that could be readily adapted to rattan would be
pouring boiling water over staves which are heavyily rapped in cloth.
This technique has the advantage of selectively heating portions of
the stave.
A rule of thumb for steaming wood for bending is to steam the wood
at 212F for 20 per half inch of thickness; but I am not so sure
how well this rule applies to low density and porous rattan.
I think I'll try the grass steam technique next summer on the 1/4
inch lathes I want to use in a skin boat project.
>Also, I would like to start fighting great-sword. Are there any
>"official" lower-bounds for bastard- and gread-swords? What's a good way
>to decide how big to make it? (my regular sword barely touches the
>ground when I hold my arm straight down.)
That's pretty standard.
>(I know a bastard sword is
>between a regular sword and a great sword, and a greatsword is between a
>bastard sword and 6'.)
Society Standard: <4' = bastard, >4' = great
(although 4'-5' is only considered a good sword)
>Which one should I start with (bastard or
>great)?
Whichever you feel comfortable with -- they are two definitely different
styles. The great sword is the more challenging and potentially dangerous.
Harald Isenross, Calontir, HARALD at MATT.KSU.KSU.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: keradwc at rahul.net (Keradwc an Cai)
Subject: Re: Sword shavings
Organization: Ringworld Engineering
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 04:17:45 GMT
In a recent article (<7+RktArJBh107h at ilel.allegro.amf.com>), slindell at ilel.allegro.amf.com (Scott Lindell) wrote:
>OK, so as I understand it, some fighters have taken to shaving their swords
>down a bit. Some questions:
>
> Are the ends still 1.25 inches in diameter?
>
At least.
While I've not used my swords recently, they're both about 1.25-1.5" on the
narrow edge, while the "wide" edges are either 1.75 or 2.25" depending on which
sword. (I've found that the larger sizes of rattan, while both harder to find
and less popular, tend to last longer, especially the unpeeled (aka yellow)
rattan.) My shortsword is has a blade width of just under 1.5" and a depth of
just over 2.5" -- it used to be a regular sword until it broke.
I shaved the blades down to bring their weight and balance closer to what my
steel sword has.
Keradwc
one upon a time stikjok
--
Keradwc an Cai A Caidan Mistie (or was that a Misty Caidan?)
Kevin Davis Connery kconnery at isi.com or keradwc at rahul.net
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ug510 at freenet.Victoria.BC.CA (Tom J. Pilcher)
Subject: Re: Sword shavings
Organization: The Victoria Freenet Association (VIFA), Victoria, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 03:14:41 GMT
In a previous article, slindell at ilel.allegro.amf.com (Scott Lindell) says:
>OK, so as I understand it, some fighters have taken to shaving their swords
>down a bit. Some questions:
>
> Are the ends still 1.25 inches in diameter?
>
The standard practice is to take a large piece of rattan (usually around
2") and shave it down to a blade 1 1/4" thick and 2" wide. The resulting
sword is still heavier than a 1 1/4" piece of rattan but has a definite
sword cross-section. It is a lot easier to tell if you are hitting with
the flat of the blade.
>Ansgar Otkelsson
>
>Scott R. Lindell
>slindell at ilel.allegro.amf.com
--
James the Tormentor: 13th Century Templar
House Aqua Cullis rises from the sea!
Tom Pilcher: 20th Century Cdn Navy
ug510 at freenet.victoria.bc.ca
From: havoc at well.sf.ca.us (Drew Pritsker)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: re: Testing Pultruded Fiberglas
Date: 5 Apr 1994 16:57:41 GMT
Organization: The Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link, Sausalito, CA
Summary: Fiberglass Source
Gunwaldt,Mike and Diana -
You might want to try obtaining your pike blanks from a company named
Ryan-Herco. They direct buy the Extren 500 1 1/4 by 1/8" pultruded
fiberglass structural tubing from the manufacturer (which I think
they are a part of). The tube is blue-grey and is extremely strong.
The part number is 1915-005 and is selling for $2.69 per foot. This
company is nationwide with offices in San Jose, Burbank, San Antonio
Kansas City as well as others that escape my feeble mind.
(I know all this as I broke my pike 3 weekends ago after 4 years of
use. I had to reorder yesterday.)
Note also that these guys sell a octagonal blank I think. I wonder
if the edges provide a better gripping surface?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Nicollo Blackrose Drew Pritsker
Baron of the Westermark 4896 McCoy Ave
Kingdom of the West San Jose CA 95130
havoc at well.sf.ca.us
--
From: Jester.Of.Anglesea at f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Jester Of Anglesea)
Date: 15 Apr 94 17:32:00 -0500
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Rattan Factoids
Organization: Fidonet:TIDMADT 703-765-0822 (1:109/120)
Greetings all,
Finally found a source that mentioned rattan. It was old.
How old you ask? It hadn't been checked out of the library
in over 10 years and made several references to the nation
of Formosa. Any way, it included three paragraphs discussing
rattan as part of a tropical rainforest. As a previous post
noted, rattan is a palm that grows like a vine. It comes in
three broad groups with several sub-species of each type.
The vines vary in thickness, ranging from 1-8cm, and in
length (longest recorded stem: 100+ meters!). Rattan needs
trees to grow on or it, apparently, dies. It is harvested
by pulling down the plant, removing all branches from the
stems, and drying the stems. The book notes that rattan
grows in a wide range of tropical rain-forests, but only
in virgin tropical rainforests. The author notes that the
increasing use of slash and burn farming and the growth
of 'plantation foresting' endanger the future of rattan.
A hopeful note: The author does mention that some types
of rattan (which types he does not say) may be able to
be cultivated outside of a tropcial rain-forest setting.
I'm going to call a couple of the appropriate embassies
and see if their agricultural or trade sections can
provide any information. More later.
Jester of Anglesea
MKA: Tony Jordan
Shire of Roxbury Mill
Atlantia
From: krekuta at tor.hookup.net (Kel Rekuta)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: re: rattan getting scarce
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 02:09:14 GMT
Organization: Kilmallen Consulting
Keywords: rattan
As to the scarcity of rattan... hah!
Call up Inter Mares Trading, address in directory listing of TI each and every
qtr for the last five years. Jeff Miritello will be tickled pink to sell you a
lovely bundle of twenty five staves about ten foot long. Ask for 35/40 mm for
bare minimum diameter and 40/45 for stouter stuff. He knows what we do with
it and makes sure we get nice straight stuff. I've used his stock for five
years. Dandy stuff.
Problem is, nobody but merchants wants to get a bundle at a time. It takes too
much organisation! That is the item lacking, not rattan.
BTW, the rattan we get these days isn't as good as that from three - four
years ago. The good yellow (Manau) rattan from Indonesia is no longer exported
so the Indonesian government can protect their indigenous rattan furniture
industry. (Can you imagine the gall, depriving North Americans of their hobby
goods just for a few jobs! :) )
The stuff we get now is from the Phillipines, whose southern islands are
coated with forests of the stuff. What we really need to do is get the US gov't
to lighten up on North Vietnam. You should see the quality of their red-brown
rattan! Dense, stiff, durable: just lousy for furniture....
Wassail!
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: akoczur at genghis.borland.com (Alexander S. Koczur)
Subject: Re: Whatif there's no rattan?
Organization: Borland International
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 02:48:23 GMT
In article <70e_9410180742 at blkcat.fidonet.org>,
Charly.The.Bastard at f1077.n147.z1.fidonet.org (Charly The Bastard) wrote:
> re: alternative sword materials
>
> Some time back, when rattan got scarce, we experimented seriously with a
> plastic, ultra dense molecular weight polyethylene I think it was called. The
> results were mixed, partly due to the weather down here in the summer, and it
> was shelved into obscurity with a reverse in Foreign Relations policy. IF
> rattan DOES get really scarce, i feel confident that our armorers will come
> up with Something that will work, and we'll all convert over and the Game
> will continue.
Exactly so. I still have a couple of old poly-swords sitting around.
They worked when necessary; and that was up in Antir. We even
tried a couple of different types of plastics, and in tube and rod
forms back in 1981 or so. Rods generally worked better than the
tubes. Rattan was always superior to all plastics.
For what its worth...
Toratoshi Benkei no Omagashi
aka Alexander Wallpuncher
aka akoczur at genghis.borland.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cheval at netcom.com (jay hoffman)
Subject: Re: ratan
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 21:10:18 GMT
Good cousin,
Peter Hendrickson (hendricp at norand.com) wrote:
: what is the current cost and availability of ratan poles in
: your area?
: please specify your location.
Looking in my checkbook, 9 staves of ~1 .25" rattan, 9' long cost me $182
(tax included) last week at the Caning Shop in Berkeley, California (West
Kingdom).
Alfred of Carlyle, West Kingdom
From: jsilver at compusmart.ab.ca (GORGON)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: first RATTAN PURCHESS :)
Date: 17 Oct 1995 19:41:16 GMT
Organization: CompuSmart Edmonton
I bought my first stick of rattan today, not bad looking, little wobbles here
and there, ( was the best of the 3 ), BUT it had some weird cuts/scratchs on
it, they looked semi , I know that is vague, does any one know what the hell I
am talking about? :)
ok now for the real stuff. :) how does one go about getting it ready for
fighting? It is yellow rattan, do you remove the bark ( it that is bark ) or
do you just DUCT TAPE it and away you go?
I know these are old questions, but hey every one is a beginer some time ( or
at least i hope some are :) )
From: Paul Greene <75252.742 at CompuServe.COM>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: first RATTAN PURCHESS :)
Date: 18 Oct 1995 06:15:36 GMT
Organization: CompuServe, Inc. (1-800-689-0736)
The fact that your rattan is of the yellow variety is the first
good thing, the darker and blotchier the better. you should
first consider wrapping the striking area with a layer of
fiberglass strapping tape as it helps to prevent splitting and
will add life to the "blade". After that, duct tape. You should
also consider using black duct tape for your "edgees" instead of
vinyl electrical tape as it also lasts longer and vinyl tape once
cut will soon fall away under hard usage. If you desire to shape
your grip, use a wood rasp and not a knife. Rattan skin can be
difficult to carve and if cut too deeply can cause splitting.
Also, dont shape too deeply or you will someday find that your
sword has broken off above the hilt and you will be facing your
opponent with only hilt and shield. Quite embarassing.
Finnian MacLeod
From: Garick Chamberlin <Garick at vonkopke.demon.co.uk>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: first RATTAN PURCHESS :)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 00:27:02 GMT
Organization: Drachenwald
In article <462628$4kh$1 at mhadf.production.compuserve.com>
75252.742 at CompuServe.COM "Paul Greene" writes:
> The fact that your rattan is of the yellow variety is the first
> good thing, the darker and blotchier the better. you should
For long life that is, it tends to be much denser and, therefore, much stronger,
but it is also much heavier. I generaly go with lighter rattan, even though
it won't last as long, but I have a war sword made of the world's densest 1 3/8
inch rattan that has lasted several years. Most of my tourney swords last about
6 weeks. (What can I say? I abuse the poor things)
> first consider wrapping the striking area with a layer of
> fiberglass strapping tape as it helps to prevent splitting and
> will add life to the "blade".
Absolutely agree!!