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jousting-msg – 2/25/06


Medieval and modern jousting from horses.


NOTE: See also the files: The-Joust-art, horses-msg, p-armor-msg, tournaments-art, warfare-msg, wounds-msg, armor-msg, hunting-msg, saddles-msg, blacksmithing-msg.





This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.


This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org


I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.


The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.


Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).


Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                          Stefan at florilegium.org



From: Neil Maclay <mwn023 at mitre.org>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,alt.history.living,soc.history.living

Subject: Re: Jousting info wanted

Date: 6 Oct 1994 22:22:58 GMT

Organization: Planning Systems, Inc. (PSI)


I live in Maryland where Jousting is the official state sport.  I guess

that the state of Maryland must have the rules somewhere. I have not

done this form of Jousting but I have seen it done.  The riders use

English saddles and wear hunting "pinks".  The lance looked a lot like a

track and field javelin.  Three post were set in a line about 10 yards

from each other with rings suspended from cross arms.  The riders would

try to take the rings in succession on a single pass. When I watched

this was mostly done at a canter.

I don't know if stop watches and time were used to break ties or if they

would keep doing it until someone missed.  That's all I know.  


Anyone have anything to add?



From: mittle at panix.com (Arval d'Espas Nord)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,alt.history.living,soc.history.living

Subject: Re: Jousting info wanted

Date: 7 Oct 1994 14:09:40 -0400

Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC


Greetings from Arval!


Medieval Studies and Re-creations, a NYC based SCA-like group, does

jousting.  I don't know the details.  If anyone wants to get in contact

with them, I can help.


Arval d'Espas Nord                                         mittle at panix.com



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: kathy at xn.ll.mit.edu (Kathryn L.Smith)

Subject: Re: Jousting

Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory

Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 18:53:28 GMT


2Lt Aryeh JS Nusbacher <nusbacher-a at rmc.ca> writes:

>camilla at mv.mv.com (Barbara Stone) wrote:

>> The random factor of the horse's behavior makes the sport

>> dangerous.


>Like polo.


      ^^^^  Which, according to the last set of rules from the Society's equestrian officer, which appeared in TI a year or so ago, we are also not allowed to do at events.  


In fact, the equestrian insurance essentially forbade us from doing anything that involved multiple horses being active in the same immediate area at the same time (polo, racing, mounted combat of any type, etc.).  Timed events are OK, while racing is not, because in a timed event only one horse at a time is competing, while in racing they would be running side by side.  The proximity of the horses to each other is the issue, not the speed at which they're moving.  As a general rule, if you have an accident with several horses close together, you are much more likely to have injuries of a more serious nature and quantity, than if you have only one horse and rider at a time.  


If you really want to see jousting in the SCA (and, for the record, I think that

it would be a tremendously bad idea), then the first thing you need to do is to

find out how to convince an insurance company that they should cover an event at

which it occurs.  Maybe that would be easier in Canada than in the US.  I won't

hold my breath waiting for it to happen though.


I'm willing to admit that jousting could be made reasonably safe, with enough time spent practicing, and the proper equipment for you *and* the horse.  However, I  think the number of people who can invest both the time and money required is  vanishingly small.  There are people who play in the SCA who also do real live jousting.  They do it at Renfaires, where they get *paid* for it, and which  I suspect purchase entirely different sorts of insurance than we do, for a host of reasons.  (They're professional performers, at least nominally, they're only using one site, they're a for-profit business, etc. etc.).  


The MSR (aka the Kingdom of Acre) has jousting *teams* which do live jousting.

There are some substantial differences between their situation and ours.  First,

the only people who do jousting are part of teams, which train together, and

joust only against other members of their own team, with whom they train regularly, and whose skills and training level they *know*. That's a very different situation from the SCAs fighting competitions, where you can end up fighting anyone who has an authorization card, with no clue how good they may be.  


Second, their jousting teams are *funded* by their corporate organization, which

pays for the horses, armor, props, etc.  They do *paid* performances at Renfaires, public events, and so forth, which help to cover their expenses.  I've spoken at some length with two former members of one of their jousting teams, who are currently active in the SCA.  One, Elizabeth of Northumberland, is a regional equestrian officer for the East Kingdom's Southern region. They did their jousting in very serious armor.  Hers was patterned on late 14th century jousting armor, and had cost her something on the order of $2000.00.  When they jousted against eachother (as opposed to at targets), they used lances with balsa-wood tips, designed to shatter in a visually impressive fashion for the crowd.  They also weren't trying to unhorse each other, just to break lances and give the crowd a spectacle. This is theater, not competition.  


I've seen videotape of their performances.  It's wonderfully period looking,

and would be great fun to see, but speaking practically, even if we could get

insurance which would allow it, and devised a set of safety rules and

authorizations that would make it reasonably unlikely to kill anyone, I think

that we'd be lucky to see more than five or six people in a kingdom willing

to devote the time and money it would require to do it. We've got people

by the dozens in the East who think it would be neat to do equestrian

activities, but only if someone will give them free riding lessons on a free

horse.   Compared to jousting, the investment in time and money to get basic

riding lessons is very small.  


                                      A'isha bint Jamil


A'isha bint Jamil, Chronicler, Barony of Stonemarche, in the Kingdom of the East


Kathryn L. Smith        System Administrator  [The text above is my

MIT Lincoln Laboratories                               my personal opinion, not

Lexington, MA                  INTERNET: KSMITH at LL.MIT.EDU  SCA or MIT/LL policy]


From: mittle at panix.com (Arval d'Espas Nord)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Medieval 'School'...

Date: 29 Mar 1995 15:42:00 -0500

Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC


Greetings from Arval!  Pip Sullivan wrote:

> The article then refers to the "Medieval Military Arts Academy" ...

> Sadly, my scanner is not yet working, or I'd have the pictures for you.

> There is one of a knight practising jousting against a metal dummy

> (interestingly, the horse wears no armour, just a cloth cover, and the

> knight is not wearing a helm)...


Do you find this surprising?  Why would you bother to load up your horse

with barding (which was hardly universal throughout our period) and put on

your helm just for practice?  Medieval illustrations of knights training at

the quintain often show them wearing no armor at all.


Arval d'Espas Nord                                         mittle at panix.com



Subject: [Ansteorra] World Jousting Championship Pictures (fwd)

Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 17:14:51 EDT

From: Potterkd2 at cs.com

To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org


This was sent to me from someone who rides out of the East.  I thought those

who do equine in the SCA would enjoy them.






<the end>

Formatting copyright © Mark S. Harris (THLord Stefan li Rous).
All other copyrights are property of the original article and message authors.

Comments to the Editor: stefan at florilegium.org