Stefan's Florilegium

gauntlets-msg

gauntlets-msg - 11/5/96

Hand protection, gloves, gauntlets.

NOTE: See also the files: helmets-msg, armor-msg, p-armor-msg, gorgets-msg,
weapons-msg, rattan-msg, quarterstaff-msg, swordcare-msg, axes-msg.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that
I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some
messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium.
These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with
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Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
mark.s.harris@motorola.com stefan@florilegium.org
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From: mchance@crl.com (Michael A. Chance)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Early period gauntlets?
Date: 3 Nov 1994 12:48:07 -0800

ivan@ccnet.com (Mike Tryon) writes:
> I am trying to figure out how to make combat legal gauntlets that will
>fit with a ninth century Anglo Saxon. Any Ideas?

As an late 11th century Scandinavian/Varangian, I've got the same
problem. What I've done for the past few years is take a pair of
metal gauntlets and paint them brown, to look like leather. Rustoleum
paints has a nice leather/cordoba brown in a flat finish, which is
what I usually use. I've had quite a few people come up asking to
look at my "leather" gauntlets, 'till they see them up close.

Of course, you'll need to touch up the paint job periodically.

The alternative, of course, is to find someone to make a set of
leather gauntlets. However, I've only seen a couple of pairs that I'd
consider using to fight in. They're not nearly as easy to make as
vambraces or cuisses, and leather isn't nearly as forgiving to work
with as metal.

Mikjal Annarbjorn
--
Michael A. Chance St. Louis, Missouri, USA "At play in the fields
Work: mc307a@sw1stc.sbc.com of St. Vidicon"
Play: mchance@crl.com

From: Neil Maclay <nmaclay@mitre.org>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Early period gauntlets?
Date: 7 Nov 1994 21:25:11 GMT
Organization: Planning Systems, Inc. (PSI)

TRISTAN CLAIR DE LUNE/KEN MONDSCHEIN, v081lu33@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu writes:
>I said mail *over* hockey gloves. Hockey gloves are legal, ain't they?

Unfortunately they probably are in the East Kingdom. But what is legal
is not necessarily what is safe. I have seen too many broken hands that
were "protected" by hockey gloves. In Atlantia we require hard
gauntlets, basket hilt, or hand shields for two handed weapons. I don't
believe in making rules and requirements for hypothetical dangers but in
this case I think that there is good evidence that hockey gloves are
inadequate.
/
Master Malcolm MacMalcolm, Marshal
( just say 'MMMMM...' )
MKA Neil Maclay

From: Shannon Ward <sward02@bigcat.missouri.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Early period gauntlets?
Date: 9 Nov 1994 22:20:33 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Columbia

I have seen too many broken hands that
> were "protected" by hockey gloves. I don't
> believe in making rules and requirements for hypothetical dangers but in this
case I think that there is good evidence that hockey gloves are
> inadequate.
> /
> Master Malcolm MacMalcolm, Marshal

I agree that hockey goves do not do a good job of protecting hands. That's how
my husband broke his-trying to block a great-sword shot. One surgery and a
couple of months later he made a pair of aluminum (yes, I know "get real, use
steel") gauntlets that were cheap and easy to make, and since then he has been
selling them for less than a pair hockey gloves. Since the main arguement around
here is that steel gauntlets are too expensive so fighters use hockey gloves,
he's been able to convince quite a few
people to switch. If that doesn't work he shows them the scars.

Tatiana

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: dahleen@badlands.NoDak.edu (Lynn S Dahleen)
Subject: Re: Early period gauntlets?
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 20:21:42 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

I once saw a pair of hockey gloves that were painted to look like hands.
It looked good enough that I am planning on doing it (my persona is a
early 7th century northern european). good luck!
Tarrach Alfson

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: v081lu33@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (TRISTAN CLAIR DE LUNE/KEN MONDSCHEIN)
Subject: Re: Early Period Gauntlets
Organization: University at Buffalo
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 23:56:42 GMT

I played lacrosse for 3 years in high school (defense-- kinda like a
polearm :) ) and I thought the same way when I started heavy combat: "Gee!
Sticks hitting hands! Like lacrosse! I'll use my old gloves!"
I was WRONG! They have utterly insufficient padding in the fingers (
esp. the tips) and are a great way to get hurt. Use the heavy hockey gloves,
preferably with a basket hilt! Please! I've had too many almost-broken
fingers!
BTW, I find Blacksword Armory gauntlets to be far *better* than hockey
gloves in terms of flexibility and protection. Mandrake/Blau patterns are
also very good for protecting, but have worse mobility unless they have a
n hourglass wrist. On the other hand, I highly recommend Mandrake or Blau
body armor...

--Tristan Clair de Lune

From: krekuta@tor.hookup.net (Kel Rekuta)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Early period gauntlets? per MMMM
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 14:22:03 GMT
Organization: Kilmallen Consulting

In article Neil Maclay <nmaclay@mitre.org> writes:
>I am afraid that I am repeating my self but, don't rely on hockey gloves
>alone to protect your hands. They don't. IMHO safety is more important
>than persona. Make up a story about how one of your ancestors escaped
>from a Roman gladiatorial school. They did use gauntlets to protect the
>hand and forearm.
>Master Malcolm MacMalcolm, Marshal
>( just say 'MMMMM...' )
>MKA Neil Maclay

IMHO, you are not completely informed as to the availability of quality hockey
gloves. I have used several types in 24 years of mundane hockey and sixteen
years of SCA combat. Most cheap gloves found in department stores and bazaar
rumage sales meet your description.

1) Defensemen's gloves. A model with exceptionally thick padding across the
metacarpals and a massive thumb. They even cover the bottom side of the hand.
Defensemen take a lot of sticks and skates in the hand. (Much like combat)

2) Lacrosse gloves. These are used to protect hands against the *exact* type
of damage fighting with polearms creates. Watch a game of lacrosse. They don't
seem to be aiming at each others *heads* but at a ball in the air. See how
often sticks connect with hands and arms and heads.

Both these gloves should cost less than $150 US because they are less than
$200 CDN in any good sporting goods shop here.

By comparison, a pair of mild steel mitten gauntlets available from many
armourers at Pennsic run $150-200 US. They rarely fit the purchaser properly,
weigh three to five pounds a pair and... they are not very flexible in the
wrist and fingers. I had a pair of stainless gauntllets made after several
years because I could afford them and *wanted* them for authenticity sake.
They are worth a lot more than most fighters, let alone newbies can afford.

My lord if you really want to be informative, I humbly request you recommend
what people *can* use and where it may be obtained. No offense intended.

From: Neil Maclay <nmaclay@mitre.org>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Early period gauntlets?
Date: 15 Nov 1994 19:04:32 GMT
Organization: Planning Systems, Inc. (PSI)

Kel Rekuta, krekuta@tor.hookup.net writes:
> IMHO, you are not completely informed as to the availability of quality
> hockey gloves. I have used several types in 24 years of mundane hockey and
> sixteen years of SCA combat.

You are probably right. I am not familiar with all the types of hockey
or lacrosse gloves. The hockey and lacrosse gloves that I have owned,
seen, or fought against in 13 years of SCA combat have not been adequate
but I can well believe that I have seen only the low end of the scale
products. But these are what I have seen on the hands of SCA fighters
and I have seen quite a few hand injuries as a result. Of course ill
made or ill fitting metal gauntlets will also cause hand injuries.

I have seen well made gauntlets make from sole leather, aluminum, hockey
plastic, kydex, and steel. I am not an armorer. I agree with Kel that
it would be useful to have posted where good gauntlets can be obtained
and what the costs would be. If any armorers reading this would post
this kind of information I don't think that they will be flamed for
advertising. Also, Kel, could you give us yours recommendations. for
commercial sports gloves with brand, make and model?

Thanks,
Master Malcolm MacMalcolm, Marshal
( just say 'MMMMM...' )
MKA Neil Maclay

From: dennis guy grace <amazing@mail.utexas.edu>
To: ansteorra@eden.com
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 11:57:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Plastic Gauntlets

Lyonel here again.

At 12:07 PM 10/14/96 -0500, Gnith wrote:
>I've been making plastic armor from ABS for a while & even tried making
>36-piece plastic finger gauntlets this weekend. (They came out looking like
>big, ridiculous Darth Vader hands and the plastic is just plain too thick to
>do really well-tuned fingers, but it was a fun project and will probably
>translate easily into mittens.)

Well, this will probably generate a number of disagreements, but I strongly
recommend that you NOT use lightweight materials such as plastic, leather,
or aluminum for your gauntlets. I know it's not against the rules, but I
wish it were. As with your helmet, part of the protection afforded by
gauntlets rests in their ability to absorb momentum--i.e., their mass. With
gauntlets, to a certain degree, mass is good.

I got into a huge argument over this with Viscount Sir Aveloc the Young,
currently residing in An Tir a few years back. He claimed to have been
using his leather gauntlets for X number of years without injury and
suggested that my conjectures were insulting. Not long after that, he got
his hands broken in an Artemisian coronet list. Now he uses steel.

Yours in eService

Sir Lyonel Oliver Grace
_______________________
Dennis G. Grace
Postmodern Medievalist

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