firearms-msg – 11/27/05
Early firearms and cannon. Reproductions.
NOTE: See also these files: siege-engines-msg, p-handgonnes-lnks, warfare-msg, wounds-msg, blackpowder-msg, casting-msg, metals-msg, metalworking-msg, pottery-wepns-msg.
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This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
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Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: Ioseph of Locksley
To: Simon <etc>
Date: 26-Nov-89 12:54am
Subject: Re: creation vs re-creation
S<>Hokay, it's time for Simon to show how Simple he is again!
S<>
S<>What exactly are the differences between wheellocks, matchlocks,
S<>and flintlocks? (No, you needn't explain padlocks, fetlocks,
S<>or sidelocks.) And what in the name of <insert deity of your
S<>choice> is farbeling?
Ah, yes....
Serpentine lock: a hand-gonne touched off by a slow-match held in the hand
or in a linstock (a length of wood or metal to hold the
burning saltpeter-soaked rope (slow-match).
Matchlock: a mechanical arrangement to lower the slow match into the pan
(the little doo-dad at the side of the barrel that primes the
main charge) with a trigger
Snapping-matchlock: the match is lowered by a spring arrangement, quickly.
Wheellock: Look at a common Zippo lighter. Works the same way, only the
rotation of the wheel is caused by a spring which must be
wound by hand for each shot. VERY fast ignition of the priming
powder.
Dog-lock: predecessor to flintlock (see below) Found commonly on Highland
pistols pre-1745.
Flintlock: A hammer holding a piece of flint is actuated by a spring, the
flint
strikes the cover of the priming pan, thus releasing sparks which
ignite the priming charge. Used by 1601, incidentally! This has the
advantange over the wheel lock in that it is cheaply manufactured,
has less moving parts and thus does not foul as badly (black powder
leaves an INCREDIBLE mess), and has no winding-wrench to lose. It's
advantage over the match-lock is simply that there is no glowing
match to give you away in the dark or to get rained on.....
BTW: breech-loading firearms are QUITE period.....!!!!
---
* Origin: <Deus ex Machina-BBS Free Atenveldt! 602-439-8070> (Opus 1:114/29)
From: Ioseph of Locksley
To: All
Date: 26-Nov-89 01:09am
Subject: Period firearms
I need to say something here.....I tend to assume that everyone was raised as
I was, around all types of firearms/edged weapons, and thus knows the RULES
about such.....Simon's message back there a ways kindof jogged my memory...
Period firearms use BLACK POWDER. This is NOT the same as modern smokeless powder. DO NOT USE SMOKELESS POWDER IN A BLACK POWDER WEAPON. It will blow up in your face.
Black powder is inherently unstable. DO NOT SMOKE, DO NOT USE
MIND/MOOD/JUDGEMENT ALTERING CHEMICALS AROUND IT, DO NOT LET IT GET INTO THE
HANDS OF FOOLS AND IDIOTS! It does not burn, in an unconfined space, slowly like modern smokeless powder does, IT ALL GOES AT ONCE!
DON'T * PLAY * WITH IT. It WILL kill you, DEAD!
And, for Deity's sake, boys and girls, CHECK YOUR LOCAL LAWS! Some
jurisdictions put black powder firearms on the same level with machineguns and double-edged daggers!
<soapbox mode OFF>
---
* Origin: <Deus ex Machina-BBS Free Atenveldt! 602-439-8070> (Opus 1:114/29)
Ramrods & Re-enactment
Date: 16 Jun 92
From: aryk at gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (a.j.s. nusbacher)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Organization: University of Toronto -- Hart House
Some of us are trying to arrange with the autocrat to have a firing demo
of pre-1600 black powder arms at Pennsic, so I think it's worth having a
brief discussion about what pre-1600 (and pre-1650) manuals call the
scouring stick.
The scouring stick is meant to push the charge and the ball down the barrel
of a muzzle-loading firearm. It is also designed to hold attachments for
cleaning the firearm, and for clearing misfired charges. Before the mid-
18th century, military munition scouring sticks were wood, sometimes with
a metal head.
Some English Civil War groups have introduced for safety purposes a
seperate evolution in the firing drill: "secure your scouring stick",
to ensure that they are not inadvertently left in a barrel and fired
downrange.
Groups which do later period re-enactment generally have more people on the
field, and frequently fire massed volleys at other bodies of troops. In
order to ensure that their ramrods are not fired into the other bodies
of troops (or into the other troops' bodies), the ramrods are not brought
onto the field at all, except when firing is done over an empty field.
A muzzle-loading piece can be fired without the charge being rammed with
a stick. It involves a rapid-fire drill in which the entire musket is
rapped smartly against the ground once to settle the powder, and once
again to knock the ball down against the charge. I believe this comes from
an early 17th century manual, but I don't know which.
As long as the ball is small enough, it need not be rammed with a stick.
Of course, the greater the windage between the ball and the barrel, the
less accurate the piece will be, and the musket- and caliver-men of the
sixteenth century were still picking their targets rather than counting
on volume of fire.
Anyone interested in pre-1600 black powder should inquire at the Borough
of Southwark Trayned Bandes camp (Elizabethan Camp) at Pennsic, or ask
by email.
Aryk Nusbacher
From: torin.ironbrow at sfnet.COM
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: MUSKETS
Date: 14 Apr 1994 16:55:46 -0400
Organization: SF NET San Francisco's Coffee House Connection
I would like to point out that a swordmaker friend of mine living in Atenveldt
(Faris of Falcon Arms) has made a black powder paintball matchlock. You have
to be very careful about your powder charge or your paintball will
disintergrate in the barrel. He used about a (WARNING WARNING: What follows is
from memory and may be WRONG!) 10 grain charge.
In Service
Torin Ironbrow
From: UDSD007 at DSIBM.OKLADOT.STATE.OK.US (Mike.Andrews)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: measurements
Date: Mon, 09 May 1994 09:02
Organization: The University of Oklahoma (USA)
In article <2qd665$86o at nntp.hut.fi>,
hagen at delta.hut.fi (T. Viljanen) writes:
{deletia} n) writes:
>Practical, isn't it ? :-) Only the practice of announcing the calibre of guns
>in means of weight is about as useful (the old British means of measuring the
>caliber of guns was to announce it as the weight of an iron sphere, which
>diameter was the same as that of the gun: therefore, a 42-lb gun did not
>necessarily shoot 42 lb balls, but its bore was the same as the diameter of
>an iron sphere of 42 lb in weight). ;-)
{deletia}
>
>Alfonso Henriques de Montoya, MKA Tuomas Viljanen
>--
>** Tuomas Viljanen
Well, not to put too fine a point on it, the bore and the caliber
of an artillery piece are different, but related measurements, and
I believe this held true in period as well. As a modern example,
a naval gun (say on a destroyer) might be referred to as "5-inch,
38 caliber"; this means that the inside diameter of the bore is
five inches, and that the bore is 38 bore-diameters (190 inches)
in length.
Counterexamples desired.
--
Michael Fenwick of Fotheringhay, O.L. (Mike Andrews) Namron, Ansteorra
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mikes at nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (michael squires)
Subject: Re: steam engine
Summary: they had the technology
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 11 May 1994 15:42:05 GMT
In article <5125 at beacon.rain.com> Suze.Hammond at f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Suze Hammond) writes:
>As James Burke has so often pointed out in "Connections", many ideas are
>tinkered with off and on for centuries until some much-needed technology
>(such as consistant metalurgy for decent boilers, and the technology to
>make a relatively air tight piston-to-cylinder fit, in this case) catches
>up to the imaginations of humanity.
One of the (main deck?) guns on the Mary Rose, sunk 1545 and raised in 1981,
was a breech-loader made of a single sheet of wrought iron forged around a
mandrel using a large trip-hammer and forge-welded into a cylinder. When
discovered it was thought to be one of the standard iron guns forged out
of bundles of iron rods, but X-rays showed the true structure.
Iron was delivered to the gunworks in "blooms" which had to first be forged
into a sheet or rod before being forged into a cannon. Later in the century
the English figured out how to cast iron into large cannons with a fairly
small risk of explosion. The casting process required the bore be drilled
out after casting. Muzzle-loaders replaced breech-loaders as gunpowder
got much better during the late 16th century and gunnery tactics moved
towards longer ranges and the breech-loaders couldn't contain the gas
pressure.
Piston seals were made of leather into the late 19th century.
The main problem for a 20th century engineer caught in 16th century
England would be (1) the boiler (2) something useful to do with the engine.
Steam engines came into common use in England and Wales to pump out mines
which had been mined so deeply that water was filling up the diggings, and
horse/ox/man power was insufficient to pump out the water.
--
Michael L. Squires, Ph.D Manager of Instructional Computing, Freshman Office,
Chemistry Department, IU Bloomington, IN 47405 812-855-0852 (o) 81-333-6564 (h)
mikes at indiana.edu, mikes at ucs.indiana.edu, or mikes at nickel.ucs.indiana.edu
From: corliss at hal.PHysics.wayne.EDU (David J. Corliss)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Wheel Locks
Date: 3 Jun 1994 13:41:31 -0400
Organization: the internet
Sean Paxton asks about Wheel Lock pistols and or muskets.
Have you tried the Tower of London? It is my impresseion that there are several
of these devices there.
Also, does anyone know if the Catalogue of the Tower of London Armories is
available on the WWW? This would be a great source of information.
From: STWRILEY at VM.TEMPLE.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Wheellock Pistols/Muskets
Date: Sun, 05 Jun 94 20:40:41 EDT
Organization: Temple University
In article <2snclu$6r0 at search01.news.aol.com>
tommyboyd at aol.com (Tommy Boyd) writes:
>Does anyone know of a source for period Wheellock Pistols and/or
>Muskets?
>
>Must be functional.
I don't know if they have complete weapons, but Dixie Gun Works carries
(or did the last time I checked) an excellent wheellock mechanism. It Lp}
might be worth your while to attempt to assemble the firearm you desire
from components. Dixie's address is:
Dixie Gun Works
Gunpowder Lane
P.O. Box 130
Union City, TN 38261
Good luck!
Lord Cyrillion de la Izquierdo Lado
formerly of the Barony of Grey Niche
Kingdom of Meridies
MKA Stewart Riley
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mikes at nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (michael squires)
Subject: Re: Wheel Locks
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 1994 21:16:18 GMT
In article <johnric.66.770667365 at saturn.wwc.edu> johnric at saturn.wwc.edu (RICHARD ALLAN JOHNSON) writes:
>In article <9406031738.AA00764 at hal.physics.wayne.edu> corliss at hal.PHysics.wayne.EDU (David J. Corliss) writes:
>>From: corliss at hal.PHysics.wayne.EDU (David J. Corliss)
>>Subject: Wheel Locks
>>Date: 3 Jun 1994 13:41:31 -0400
>>
>>Sean Paxton asks about Wheel Lock pistols and or muskets.
Naval Arms made a wheel lock pistol which would work for a few times before
it broke, or so people who bought them told me. It is possible to use it
to make a practical wheellock but the one person who has done so had to
make a new chain and a few of the other parts (they were too weak and
broke quickly). Naval Arms has stopped making it, apparently.
I would visit those huge gun shows and look; it is likely that a reproduction
wheellock will show up.
There was an article in one of the Midrealm's regional science newsletters
(Illinois?) some years ago about how to make a 16th century gun using a
commercial wheellock. Someone from Wurm Wald will no doubt remember.
What I want to see the the six-barreled pepperbox that Lorenzo de Medici
owned, and how they kept the whole thing from blowing up in his face.
--
Michael L. Squires, Ph.D Manager of Instructional Computing, Freshman Office,
Chemistry Department, IU Bloomington, IN 47405 812-855-0852 (o) 81-333-6564 (h)
mikes at indiana.edu, mikes at ucs.indiana.edu, or mikes at nickel.ucs.indiana.edu
From: tip at lead.aichem.arizona.edu (Tom Perigrin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: FORE! (was: Wheel Locks)
Date: 3 Jun 1994 23:18:45 GMT
Organization: Department of Chemistry
Dixie Gun Works sells a servicable wheellock. It's very plain, but seems
well made. Mine hasn't broken in 4 years of low to moderate service.
There was a fellow at Southern California Renn Faire who was selling very
ornate wheellocks.. hey, since Faire is still going on (this is the last
weekend), perhaps you could call them and find out who it is.
On a slightly different note, finaly finished my "golf ball cannon". It's
a reproduction of a German 1450's peice that fires golf balls... I got
tired of firing 3 pound lead balls from the falconette... between the cost
of the lead and the cost of the powder, and the problem of moving a 2/3 ton
cannon around, I decided I needed something cheaper and easier to move.
THis one is nice.. total weight is probably a little under 300 to 400
pounds, and disassembles into 4 cumbersome peices. Carriage made out of
oak 4 x 6's, which gives it some "authority". Possible to sling in the
back of my truck.
The ammo is cheap; used golf balls can be had for $0.08 each in quantity,
and the amount of powder is measured in hundreds of grains (rather than
hundreds of grams).
Took it out last weeked and shot it at targets at a distance of about 100
to 300 yards. Hard to hit things smaller than refrigerator boxes at 300
yards, but we dented and knocked holes in a freon can at 150 yards. At
first I was a little dissappointed in the fact that the can was only dented
the first time we hit it, but as I stood there and contemplated the fact
that the internal volume had been reduced by ~33%, I realized that it would
severely hinder any fighter unlucky enough to receive such a ding in his
helm or breast plate.
What was more impressive was the damage done by ~1 pound of 00 buckshot at
100 yards. The can looked like an economy sized strainer.
I guess that makes it inappropriate for use in melees? Oh darn. You
guys never let us late period artillary types have fun.
Thomas Ignatius Perigrinus
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: wew at nuxi. (Bill Wilson)
Subject: Re: No Black Powder at SCA, ever?
Organization: Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff AZ, USA
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 21:53:14 GMT
Tom Perigrin (tip at lead.aichem.arizona.edu) wrote:
: There have been several of us considering hosting an Atenveldt and Caid
: artillery and small arms event... all period black powder weapons, no
: flint locks, etc.. Does this mean that we couldn't do it as an official
Just to let you know, various early flintlocks came out as early as
1550-1570. I have listings for miquelets and snaphaunces dating back
this early.
As a note I am forming a musketeer company in Atenveldt. We will also have
pikemen. To date we have two matchlock muskets and my personal one will
be done by the Aten-Outlands War where we will give a matchlock salute to
start the war. Anyone interested in matchlock parts can send me a note
and I'll share my findings.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
William E Wilson (wew at sunset.cse.nau.edu | wilson at nauvax)
Northern AZ Univ Flagstaff, AZ 86011
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: wew at nuxi. (Bill Wilson)
Subject: Re: Wheellock Pistols/Muskets
Organization: Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff AZ, USA
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 22:02:57 GMT
STWRILEY at VM.TEMPLE.EDU wrote:
: I don't know if they have complete weapons, but Dixie Gun Works carries
: (or did the last time I checked) an excellent wheellock mechanism. It Lp}
: might be worth your while to attempt to assemble the firearm you desire
: from components. Dixie's address is:
Dixie doesn't carry the lock anymore. Their latest catalogue doesn't show
it and when I had the money to buy one they had run out of stock. I'm
currently checking on some leads for lock sets, including snaphaunce
and miquelet.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
William E Wilson (wew at sunset.cse.nau.edu | wilson at nauvax)
Northern AZ Univ Flagstaff, AZ 86011
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: wew at nuxi. (Bill Wilson)
Subject: Re: Wheel Locks
Organization: Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff AZ, USA
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 22:00:21 GMT
michael squires (mikes at nickel.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:
: Naval Arms made a wheel lock pistol which would work for a few times before
I don't think that they produce the arm anymore.
: I would visit those huge gun shows and look; it is likely that a reproduction
: wheellock will show up.
Schroeter from California sells German and Italian wheellock kits. They
aren't bad. A friend of mine has one. I can also get plans for a simple
wheellock (includes plans for other types of pistols) for around $10. I'll
try my had at fashioning one as soon as I have the time.
I may also have a line on wheellock parts sets.
I am currently writing a manual on how to make a matchlock musket. I hope
to have it done by September.