axes-msg - 12/13/99 Viking axes, throwing axes. NOTE: See also the files: Norse-msg, SCAweapons-msg, knife-throwing-msg, swords-msg, bladesmithing-msg, metals-msg, weapons-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: corliss at hal.PHysics.wayne.EDU (David J. Corliss) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Viking War Axes Date: 24 Feb 1994 09:45:30 -0500 Thorfinn Magnussuon asks for information on where to purchase a period viking war axe.... Well (like most things), there's period, and then there's _period_. In particular, heavy viking axes were made with an iron head into which was set a steel edge. A sheet of iron was wrapped around a bar to form the socket and welded together almost to the ends of the sheet: the very ends were left slightly open. A strip of steel (in the better axes, pattern welded steel) was inserted and and the whole welded together. This left exposed a very fine cutting edge on a weapon that was mostly iron. Apart from the cost, an all-steel head is more likely to crack in use than an iron head, which may deform slightly but can be reshaped, if neccessary, after its work is done. One can find axes from several sources that bear a striking resemblance to viking war axes but are, in fact, made entirely of steel. I have not yet seen one made the the period fashion. I am sure that someone out there is doing this process, though, and would love to hear about it. Just as an aside, questions of this sort can often be directed to your local Minister of Sciences: that's one of the things they should be glad to do (at least, in my opinion). There happens to be a fine MOS in your Shire and in your Region and I am sure that they would be very helpful. Beorthwine "....So, Thorkil, I need a new axe. Do you know anyone who makes a good one?" "Well, Bjorn, I got mine from Eirik over in Trondheim and it's been great. I have had this axe for 15 years and I've only replaced the handle three times and the head twice!" From: ayotte at milo.NOdak.EDU (Robert Arthur Ayotte) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Viking War Axes Date: 26 Feb 1994 01:24:48 -0500 Organization: North Dakota State University ACM, Fargo ND In article <9402241444.AA02358 at hal.physics.wayne.edu> you wrote: : Thorfinn Magnussuon asks for information on where to purchase a period viking : war axe.... : Well (like most things), there's period, and then there's _period_. : In particular, heavy viking axes were made with an iron head into which was : set a steel edge. A sheet of iron was wrapped around a bar to form the socket : and welded together almost to the ends of the sheet: the very ends were left : slightly open. A strip of steel (in the better axes, pattern welded steel) was : inserted and and the whole welded together. This left exposed a very fine : cutting edge on a weapon that was mostly iron. Apart from the cost, an : all-steel head is more likely to crack in use than an iron head, which may : deform slightly but can be reshaped, if neccessary, after its work is done. : One can find axes from several sources that bear a striking resemblance to : viking war axes but are, in fact, made entirely of steel. I have not yet seen : one made the the period fashion. I am sure that someone out there is doing : this process, though, and would love to hear about it. : Just as an aside, questions of this sort can often be directed to your local : Minister of Sciences: that's one of the things they should be glad to do : (at least, in my opinion). There happens to be a fine MOS in your Shire and : in your Region and I am sure that they would be very helpful. : Beorthwine : "....So, Thorkil, I need a new axe. Do you know anyone who makes a good one?" : "Well, Bjorn, I got mine from Eirik over in Trondheim and it's been great. I : have had this axe for 15 years and I've only replaced the handle three times : and the head twice!" Very good information, and well worth considering. It leads to the Smith, and the learning of manufacture. I like, and will file the information for future use. To the places to buy Axes that will work for our needs (throwing) I was informed by a local Dark Ages GOD (Really very well read and researched in the time of the Viking, Baron Thrym) He found that J.R. Townson (gad I am not sure of the spelling) who deal with Rev/Civil/F&I War eara stuff make a good axe that looks well and functions smoothly from the hand. It's also about $24 bucks US. They have an 800 number, call Dir assistance as I do not have the number on hand. Horace From: corliss at hal.PHysics.wayne.EDU (David J. Corliss) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Oak and ash: a thorny question Date: 2 Mar 1994 11:39:55 -0500 As an answer to the question: "What wood is used for spear shafts and axe hafts" in the Viking Age quiz, it was written: > Ash or Oak Allow me to be more specific. We must recall that there are many differents kinds of ashes and oaks, including cork (oak). The answer should be (my opinion only): _Black_ Ash (now used for poles for pole vaulting, baseball bats, etc) and _White_ Oak. All oaks have natural open spaces in the wood. Some are so extensive that they leave no strength (see cork, above). In white oak, these voids are filled with the glue that holds the wood fibers together to form the tree. Thus, it is exceptionally strong. While on the subject, white oak is a pain in the neck to work (by hand) and so is not used except when neccessary. Red oak is the variety most commonly found in this country. In the middle ages, black oak was generally used. However, the differences between black oak and red oak are so slight that lumber yards make no distinction. (Red is New World; black was brought over by early colonists.) I am informed that about 10% of all wood sold as "red oak" in the U.S. is, in fact, black oak. Thus, red oak should be the oak of choice in our recreations, except when another is specifically required in a particular project. .......... This has been a public service message from the Middle Kingdom College of Sciences........... Beorthwine From: Jester.Of.Anglesea at f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Jester Of Anglesea) Date: 08 Apr 94 14:19:00 -0500 Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Frankish axes Greetings, You're in luck. I put down my current book and then read your message. A double source quote follows. Refering to the battle-axe: "Although it could be used for hand-to-hand combat, it was chiefly a throwing weapon which the Franks, according to Procopius, `at a given signal and at the first encounter' all threw together at the enemy." Philippe Contamine, War in the Middle Ages, pg. 176 He goes on to give an effective range: 12 meters a weight: 1.2 kg two lengths: handle: 40 cm, blade: 18 cm and notes that varying examples are found in Frankish graves beginning in the mid-5th century and ending sometime around the 7th century. Jester of Anglesea MKA: Tony Jordan Shire of Rochesburie Mill Atlantia From: lsteele at mtholyoke.edu (Lisa Steele) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Historical information on axes Date: 19 Feb 1995 16:07:29 GMT Organization: Mount Holyoke College There is a short article called La Jeu de la Hache, a translated essay on medieval judical axe combat. I just loaned my copy, but I think it is pulbished by the Antiquarian Society of London. --Esclarmonde Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: v081lu33 at ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (TRISTAN CLAIR DE LUNE/KEN MONDSCHEIN) Subject: Re: How To Use A War Axe Organization: University at Buffalo Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 18:04:26 GMT Suze.Hammond at f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Suze Hammond) writes: >Am I right in assuming from the axe itself, and from the armor it was used >against (heavy plate) that the war axe was used to disable the armor, >rather than necessarily kill or stun? > >It looks to me as a wonderful tool for denting joints into unusability... > >Sort of like a can opener in a way... > >.... Moreach NicMhaolain More or less. War axes were some of the more deadly hand-held weapons, since they could concentrate the force of the blow into a smaller surface area. Therefore, they could probably punch through if they hit right. However, armor was often of a very high grade, and so only dented-- the joints, for instance. Or, pieces can be pulled off if you hook them right. The concussive force could alos stun or perhaps cause internal injuries and concussion, thus opening the for up to a dagger through the ocularium. A long-hafted axe is also a lever to knock your opponent down. Finally, there's "Armor Bite": damaged armor in itself is a dager, as jagged metal ends rip your flesh open as you move, thus opening you up to infection. In conclusion, war axes and hammers were very deadly weapons that generated quite a bit of force, and could disable an armored man even without totally destroying the armor. --Tristan From: "Bill Schongar" <bills at lcdmultimedia.com> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Throwing Axe Questions Date: 15 Oct 1997 19:19:53 GMT Organization: The Destek Group, Inc. Opus T. Penguin <rhkaloge at mtu.edu> wrote > I am looking to get a throwing axe, but I personally have no idea > what makes a good axe or a bad axe. Also, being in the northern > wastes, mail order is my only option, so I can't even examine > things up close. Could anyone give suggestions where I could > find a good throwing axe, based on quality, price and in period > (1300 German, if they even used axes, Viking if not) in that order. As far as reasonably made and easily available, I like the Starfire throwing axes. The double-bladed looks more "authentic" than the single-bladed, due to their proportions and materials. Museum Replicas recently had a few throwing axes in their catalog as well... -Bill From: ctas_dan at ACM.ORG Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Throwing Axe Questions Date: 15 Oct 1997 18:32:35 GMT >I am looking to get a throwing axe, but I personally have no idea >what makes a good axe or a bad axe. Also, being in the northern >wastes, mail order is my only option, so I can't even examine >things up close. Could anyone give suggestions where I could >find a good throwing axe, based on quality, price and in period >(1300 German, if they even used axes, Viking if not) in that order. > >Kedric Museum Replica's (Windlass Steelcrafts or Atlanta Cutlery) 1-800-883-8838 In their latest catalog there is a german throwing axe (I believe 1300's), all steel. reasonable price. Copy of one in a German Museum. --- Dan of Hamildoon SCA since AS IX CTAS_DAN at acm.org Dan Hamilton dch at swbell.net <the end> Edited by Mark S. Harris axes-msg Page 5 of 5