Home Page

Stefan's Florilegium

armor-plastic-msg



This document is also available in: text or RTF formats.

plastic-armor-msg - 10/17/00

 

Making plastic armor.

 

NOTE: See also the files: armor-msg, p-armor-msg, armor-leather-msg, shields-msg, Shield-Balanc-art, gambesons-msg, coat-of-plates-msg, armor-chklst-msg.

 

************************************************************************

NOTICE -

 

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

 

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

 

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

 

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

 

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

 

Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                          Stefan at florilegium.org

************************************************************************

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: fixit at astro.dasd.honeywell.com

Subject: Re: How build plastic armour?

Organization: Honeywell Inc. DASD

Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1993 17:22:34 GMT

 

Good health to you Lord Kimura

 

your words:

> Those barrels are uglu blue colour and thick plastic. Does anyone know

> any hints how we can work with that material?

 

My experiences:

Rough cut it to size with a saw (power)

Heat in an oven at 350 degrees until pliable

Shape to fit or press over a mold

Quench it in cold water to preserve shape

Fine trim with a jewelers saw or drimmel

        or

Clean up the edges with a torch

 

Warnings:

To much time in the oven will burn the piece

Use the original curvature as much as possible in design

It melts very easily with a torch

 

Recomendations:

Unless you WANT to look like Robo-Cop, cover it.  Tabbard or Skarta

and baggy pants.  Paint doesn't adhere well.  One person tried heating

a piece of mail and melting a pattern into the plastic. The piece was

then painted.  The paint in the pattern lasted much longer.

 

It makes very protective armour but it doesn't look so great.  I like

the low cost for getting new folk on the field.  Most everyone 'round

here replaces it eventually when they can get better gear.

                                                                   

> Sorry about my english :-)

 

No apologies necessary.  Sorry I can't write Finnish.

 

Gunwaldt

 

 

From: faust at ace.com (Faust)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: How build plastic armour?

Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 17:30:38 EST

Organization: Argus Computerized Exchange

 

a saw designed for cutting metal should work nicely, (a hacksaw)

avoid any sort of melting, or 'hot knife' stuff, as plastic tends to be

very toxic when burning.

 

you will need to smooth the edges with fine sandpaper or polishing

cloth.

faust at ace.com   Thomas of Berwick

 

p.s.  hit the barrel with sticks for a while, and see if the plastic

takes the damage in a manner you can tolerate

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: treid at morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Ambrose)

Subject: Re: How build plastic armour?

Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland

Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1993 13:22:19 GMT

 

faust at ace.com (Faust) writes:

>a saw designed for cutting metal should work nicely, (a hacksaw)

>avoid any sort of melting, or 'hot knife' stuff, as plastic tends to be

>very toxic when burning.

 

>you will need to smooth the edges with fine sandpaper or polishing

>cloth.

>faust at ace.com   Thomas of Berwick

 

>p.s.  hit the barrel with sticks for a while, and see if the plastic

>takes the damage in a manner you can tolerate

 

Our little armour makeing group has found that a jig saw quickest to cut

the plastic. Then a piant scraper can be used to take the sharpness and

the frills (produced by the jig saw) off the edge. A paint scraper is

reuseable unlike sand paper.

 

Then a heat gun to mold the plastic.

 

Remember, everything loks good with a nice tabard!

 

Ambrose

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: mchance at nyx.cs.du.edu (Michael Chance)

Subject: Re: How build plastic armour?

Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.

Date: Fri, 17 Sep 93 22:26:33 GMT

 

Kvedjur fra Mikjal!

 

Be sure to check out the temperature range of the plastic you're making

armor with, if at all possible, especially if you plan to do any

outdoor fighting during cold weather seasons.  Some grades of plastic

barrels get brittle below certain temperatures.

 

Baron Devin may remember the incident better than I, but I recall the

early attemps at plastic barrel armor in the Shire of Swordcliffe,

Midrealm (Springfield , IL).  The full leg harness I saw worked fine

all summer long.  However, at the first real autumn tourney outdoors,

the first solid shot to the cuisse blew a great hole in it.  Seems the

particular type of plastic got very brittle around 55 degree

Fahrenheit.

 

Moral: Check the cold weather properties of your plastic armor before

trying to fight in it under those conditions.

 

Mikjal Annarbjorn

--

Michael A. Chance          St. Louis, Missouri, USA   "At play in the fields

Work: mc3078 at sw1sta.sbc.com                             of St. Vidicon"

Play: ab899 at freenet.hsc.colorado.edu

      mchance at nyx.cs.du.edu

 

 

From: rcml at acpub.duke.edu (Robert Lonon)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: How build plastic armour?

Date: 20 Sep 93 00:16:47 GMT

Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.

 

If you're going to use plastic, a good way to hide it is to make

it into Wisby plate armor.  This gives you great protection, and hides

the plastic at the same time.  It's reasonably simple to make,

and really low in cost.  As an added benefit, it's (essentially)

period as well.

 

I've made more than one set, and if you cut the plastic at the

correct angles, you don't even have to heat-form it.

 

I've written up instructions on how do this, altho it hasn't been tested

yet (ie given to people who don't have me on hand to ask questions).

If anyone's interested, I'd be happy to try to email them a copy

(altho I'm not that heavy of a net user; it might tak me a few trys

to get it right).

 

If you'd like a copy, email me at rcml at acpub.duke.edu. Any feedback

would be appreciated as well.

 

Corwyn Sinister

Barony of Windmaster's Hill

Kingdom of Atlantia

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: blaxson at shade.UWaterloo.ca (Brian A.Laxson)

Subject: Re: How build plastic armour?

Organization: University of Waterloo

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1993 16:35:31 GMT

 

BTW,  You can reshape the plastic with a propane torch, a tub of  

water and two layers of gloves.  Soaking the gloves in water gives you a  

"heat capacitor" which slows the transfer of heat from the plastic to your  

hands.  

 

You will have to hold the pieces briefly in the tub while the cool  

and fix to shape.  This also "recharges" the gloves with cold water.  Best  

bendings come from heating both sides of the bend, apply a bit of water to  

the surface of plastic, and reheating again before bending.  This leads to  

a more uniform "softness" through the plastic and prevents melting of the  

outer plastic.

 

Brian Goodheart the Warper

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: amlsmith at morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Andrew ML Smith)

Subject: Re: Plastic Armour

Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland

Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1993 23:22:15 GMT

 

Dan_J._Hurst at thequest.com (Dan J. Hurst) writes:

>Yea, verily Yea! Mikjal, thou didst say unto All ...

>

> M(> Baron Devin may remember the incident better than I, but I recall the

> M(> early attemps at plastic barrel armor in the Shire of Swordcliffe,

> M(> Midrealm (Springfield , IL).  The full leg harness I saw worked fine

> M(> all summer long.  However, at the first real autumn tourney outdoors,

> M(> the first solid shot to the cuisse blew a great hole in it.  Seems the

> M(> particular type of plastic got very brittle around 55 degree

> M(> Fahrenheit.

>

>Those leg harness were made from Kydex, not barrel plastic. The barrels

....

>I had assumed they were using a similair material, because it was

>described as "those ugly blue barrels". But then, we all know what

>assumeing does.

 

OK, here is the guide that I go by, and it seems to be OK:

 

Ugly Blue barrels are OK, but chill a 2x6" piece in the freezer first.

If it snaps, don't use it. (This goes for _all_ plastic)

Barrels that contained the following should be OK:

Kerosene (Dark green)

Rust Check (Black, with textured surface)

Industrial Pink Cleaner (Black, very variable thickness *caution*)

 

If you can find out what sort of plastic it is, and you are not sure of

its mechanical properties at cold temperatures check with an engineer or

a chemist, they will be able to find data for you. In the near future, I

hope to compile a list of 'acceptable' plastics. If such a list already

exists, let me know. I plan on both a tensile strength test on real

pieces at room temperature, and impact (charpy?) testing at 30, 20, 0,

-10 Celcius. These I can then cross check with data from tested 1040

steel samples which would cover a similar area. I don't think that any

harness tests would give any useful data.

 

Any Opinions?

 

Sebastian, who is momentarily playing the part of:

Andrew Smith                   

Mech. Engineering Student.       

M.U.N.                  

amlsmith at morgan.ucs.mun.ca

 

 

From: DDF2 at cornell.edu (David Friedman)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Plastic Armour

Date: 4 Oct 1993 23:16:50 GMT

Organization: Cornell Law School

 

Eric Huber writes:

> It's very affordable, I bought a really large sheet of it (more than enough

> for what I need, I think it was around 7 or 8 square feet) for less than

> 40 dollars.

>  

> It's *doesn't* look very period however, so I plan to cover it with garb or

> whatever.  The Baron covered his armor with suede to make it look period.

 

Leather of a thickness suitable for armor (about 13 ounce) can be purchased

by mail for under $5 a square foot. Add another $1/square foot for beeswax

and you have hardened leather at something pretty close to the price quoted

here for plastic. It is easier to cut than plastic (a utility knife instead

of a saw). You shape it by soaking instead of heating, which is probably

means fewer burned fingers (although you will have to heat it after it is

shaped, in order to harden it). On the other hand the leather is probably

less flexible soaked than the plastic is heated, so it will be harder to do

something which is supposed to end up very convex.

 

And you save the cost and trouble of covering it with suede.

 

David/Cariadoc

DDF2 at Cornell.Edu

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: parr at acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)

Subject: Re: Plastic Armour

Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1993 08:48:33 GMT

Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

 

amlsmith at morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Andrew ML Smith) writes:

> Dan_J._Hurst at thequest.com (Dan J. Hurst) writes:

>>Yea, verily Yea! Mikjal, thou didst say unto All ...

>>

>> M(> Baron Devin may remember the incident better than I, but I recall the

>> M(> early attemps at plastic barrel armor in the Shire of Swordcliffe,

>> M(> Midrealm (Springfield , IL).  The full leg harness I saw worked fine

>> M(> all summer long.  However, at the first real autumn tourney outdoors,

>> M(> the first solid shot to the cuisse blew a great hole in it.  Seems the

>> M(> particular type of plastic got very brittle around 55 degree

>> M(> Fahrenheit.

>>

>>Those leg harness were made from Kydex, not barrel plastic. The barrels

>....

>>I had assumed they were using a similair material, because it was

>>described as "those ugly blue barrels". But then, we all know what

>>assumeing does.

>

>OK, here is the guide that I go by, and it seems to be OK:

>

>Ugly Blue barrels are OK, but chill a 2x6" piece in the freezer first.

>If it snaps, don't use it. (This goes for _all_ plastic)

>Barrels that contained the following should be OK:

>Kerosene (Dark green)

>Rust Check (Black, with textured surface)

>Industrial Pink Cleaner (Black, very variable thickness *caution*)

 

Barrel plastic is low and sometimes medium density polyetheline.

It isn't very good for armour. I reccomend buying a 4x8 sheet

of the high density stuff from a plastic company.

 

Carolus

--

Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of

separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,

struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing

gourd. --Unknown net.person

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: ARCHER at utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer)

Subject: Re: Plastic Armour

Organization: University of Tennessee

Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1993 20:18:13 GMT

 

DDF2 at cornell.edu (David Friedman) writes:

>And you save the cost and trouble of covering it with suede.

 

But it does have the tendency to go limp in hot weather or when it gets

soaked.  I would also tend to think that it sheds beeswax.

 

>David/Cariadoc

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Mail to PA142548 at UTKVM1.UTK.EDU.  Mail to ARCHER at that address will

bounce.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

 

 

From: doconnor at sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Plastic Armour

Date: 5 Oct 93 13:18:42

Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture

 

WRT to cheap armour :

 

I recently completed a set of Wisby-style torso armor.

(The latest Creative Anachronist is an Excellent treatise

on armour-made-from-metal-plates-and-leather-or-fabric BTW,

including the Wisby finds and later brigadine armour!)

 

Total cost :

about $5 for the 1/16" 6061T6 aluminum (doesn't show)

about $7 for the heavy canvas it's riveted to

about $1 for the little leather squares to reinforce

the cloth under selected rivets

about $7 for the rivets themselves ( #9 copper rivets)

 

Took about 14 hours over the course of 5 days to build.

Weighs under 10 pounds, breathes well (important in Phoenix AZ!).

Very very comfortable, very protective when worn over the

canvas-and-half-inch-felt gambeson I wear (which breathes and

wicks sweat, BTW). The gambeson weighs as much as the armor,

uses about $10 in materials, and about 20 hours of sewing to do,

(sewing half-inch felt strips inside 2 layers of 11 ounce canvas

takes time!) and is great in hot or as-cold-as-it-gets-in-AZ weather.

 

I would have no reservation recomending this setup to someone who

wants comfort, protection and good period _appearance_ in torso armour

for under $30 all told. If you want to spend more, use leather

instead of canvas : but that ups the price 100-200% !

 

Of course, having people around to teach you how to build

this kind of stuff, and who have Beverly Shears (may they

never rust!) is an enormous help.

--

Dennis O'Connor                          doconnor at sedona.intel.com

Intel i960(R) Microprocessor Division    Solely responsible for what I do.

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: parr at acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)

Subject: Re: Pickle Barrel Plate?!?

Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1993 05:54:47 GMT

Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

 

doconnor at sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor) writes:

>zutzba at malins.mala.bc.ca writes:

>]I would like to know if it is possible to fasten plate steel to pickle

>] barrel?  Would it cause the plastic to crack?  It would not be of too heavy

>] gauge metal, as the weight factor.  The protection would be by the plastic

>] and the looks by the metal.

>

>I can't for the life of me imagine why anyone would go to all this effort

>instead of just using a light-weight metal without any plastic. Aluminium

>at a scrap dealer is $1.25 a pound, which is about 1 sq.ft. of 1/16th inch

>aluminium. This is for nice never-used big sheet metal peices, not rubbish.

>

>Admitidly, it doesn't quite have the same color and patina as steel,

>and it does not deep-dish well. But surely it's easier to make

>and better looking than a metal-plastic sandwich !

>

>Unless someone is building a plastic-metal sandwich shield, of course.

>I wouldn't count on such a beast lasting too long, tho : metal and

>plastic react so differently to impact, I'd be afraid such a shield

>would be badly beaten out of shape before too long.

 

I am on a quest to make my 1350 era harness look, and weigh,

to truly period standards. The easiest way to do this is

metal/plastic composites.

 

My leg armour is extremely durable (no denting in 5months

of use), attractive, and made of 1/8" high density poly

etheline plastic, covered in heavy suede, studded with

rivets for that 'splinted' look, and reinforced with 18ga

metal.

 

Based on it's current performance, I expect it to last

many years. It's an unqualified success.

 

Carolus Malvoix

--

Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of

separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,

struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing

gourd. --Unknown net.person

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: jr1417 at albnyvms.bitnet

Subject: Re: Pickle Barrel Plate?!?

Organization: University of Albany, SUNY

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 04:14:42 GMT

 

doconnor at sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor) writes:

>zutzba at malins.mala.bc.ca writes:

>]I would like to know if it is possible to fasten plate steel to pickle

>] barrel?  Would it cause the plastic to crack?  It would not be of too heavy

>] gauge metal, as the weight factor.  The protection would be by the plastic

>] and the looks by the metal.

>

>I can't for the life of me imagine why anyone would go to all this effort

>instead of just using a light-weight metal without any plastic. Aluminium

>at a scrap dealer is $1.25 a pound, which is about 1 sq.ft. of 1/16th inch

>aluminium. This is for nice never-used big sheet metal peices, not rubbish.

 

well, aluminum has this nasty habit of stress cracking. and your average

pickle-bucket won't pass inspection in the east without some reinforcing,

i've had to learn.  as a breast-plate it's too flexible. I my self use

an old juice barrel cut into plates(trying to at least use a period pattern

for my stuff, if not period materials...total cost: $12.00)  much thicker

plastic, and when it's on the strapping makes it more resiliant to shots, being

under tension.  i could see using aluminum to cover plastic, but then you

are defeating the purpose of using plastic...weight.  you just added all the

weight back that you tried to lose by using plastic.  see cariadoc's

article on lamellar armor, if you want a good pattern. it's one of the best

i've seen, and i've seen a few patterns.  of course he would cry if he heard

that it was being done in barrel plastic....:>  on the other hand, plastic

makes a good substitute for horn, which was used as armor, and is now much

harder to come by.

 

>Unless someone is building a plastic-metal sandwich shield, of course.

>I wouldn't count on such a beast lasting too long, tho : metal and

>plastic react so differently to impact, I'd be afraid such a shield

>would be badly beaten out of shape before too long.

 

i've seen some plastic/aluminum shields in use around here for about

three years.  they hold up better than plain aluminum, and don't

show much sign of wear.  i'm switching over to one this year, since

they hold up so well.  i've used a shield made from 9-ply, cabinet-maker

grade plywood for years, and it's done well, but these aluminum/lexan shields

appear to be indestructable!  we're also experimenting with 2 layers of

aluminum (we have left-over material when we make our shields) to see how

well that holds up.  plain T-6 signs just don't hold up well in combat

if you make them only one layer thick.

 

personally, i'll probably go back to my old wooden shield. my fighters are

techno-buffs (they go to RPI-an engineering school...), but i'm a history

major (sunya-1/4th the cost of rpi), and prefer the feel of something which

at least approximates the real thing.  however, today, if you want to be a

serious fighter, tech makes the difference.  a bascinet, or barbute, and

kydex body harness makes a big difference over someone wearing a barrel helm

and steel coat of plates in the woods.  of course there are moments (the

bridge battle) where having the extra pounds helps too!! if i had the cash,

i'd get a set of both, because there would be a use for both.

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: rynr_ltd at uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Dave)

Subject: Re: Plastic armour

Organization: University of Rochester Computing Center

Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 07:09:45 GMT

 

>Does anyone know of a good way (actually I'd settle for a bad way at this

>point) of bending plastic for armour without having to put it in some-

>body's oven?  I haven't an oven of my own and am loath to treat anybody

>else's in such a manner.

 

>Coinneach MacAonghais

>Canton of Eoforwick

 

First find a propane torch.  Borrow one from a SCA friend, he (or she) probably

has one.  Heat the plastic and bend it to the shape you want.  Then submerge

in ice cold water to quench the plastic.  Keep in the water for an hour or so

and then you can go about with the piece.  A cooler with 2 bags of ice and

alot of water works great.

 

By the way,  BE CAREFULL.  The plastic is HOT (yes i know you know but so did I

outch!).  Also some plastics can give off toxic vapors so try to heat it up in

a ventalated area (like yout garage).

 

Best of luck,

Cohen the Tinker  Thescore,  Aethelmark.

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: bdorion at sciborg.uwaterloo.ca (Brian Dorion)

Subject: Re: Plastic armour

Organization: University of Waterloo

Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 14:41:58 GMT

 

Dave <rynr_ltd at uhura.cc.rochester.edu> wrote:

>First find a propane torch.  Borrow one from a SCA friend, he (or she)

>probably has one.  Heat the plastic and bend it to the shape you want.

>Then submerge in ice cold water to quench the plastic. Keep in the water

>for an hour or so and then you can go about with the piece.  A cooler with

>2 bags of ice and alot of water works great.

>

>By the way,  BE CAREFULL.  The plastic is HOT (yes i know you know but so

>did I outch!).  Also some plastics can give off toxic vapors so try to heat

>it up in a ventalated area (like yout garage).

>

>Best of luck,

>Cohen the Tinker  Thescore,  Aethelmark.

 

Hmmmm...My attempts to use a propane torch have not been too successful.

I have found that a propane torch does not produce an even heat throughout

the plastic.  Rather it tends melt the plastic on the outside without

heating the interior sufficently to mold the plastic. Because you've

melted the outside it looks pretty bad as well.

 

Cooling the plastic shouldn't take so long.  I have found that five

minutes under cold running water sufficent time to allow you to handle the

plastic with bare hands.

 

Konrad Matthias Jaeger

Bryniau Tywynogg, Ealdormere

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: gregsta at microsoft.com (Gregory Stapleton)

Subject: Re: Plastic armour

Organization: microsoft.com

Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1993 22:55:39 GMT

 

I have tried this,and it does work, but it's not the safest method.

 

I have had great success with an electric heat gun.  It works great,

is more controlable and less likely to cause a fire (at least not as

quickly) than a lit propane torch.

 

All in all, I would suggest finding a kind soul who makes plastic

armour and request an evening with their oven.  I use 3/8th inch

ABS plastic sheet.  Heated to 300-degrees Fahenheit for about 7 minutes.

It comes out as pliable as wet leather of an equal thickness.

 

My 2-cents worth.

 

Gawaine Kilgore

 

 

From: jeffs at math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: bending plastic

Date: 8 Nov 1993 10:26:25 -0500

 

>Does anyone know of a good way (actually I'd settle for a bad way at

>this point) of bending plastic for armour without having to put it in

>some- body's oven?  I haven't an oven of my own and am loath to treat

>anybody else's in such a manner.

 

Actually, this might be of general interest for the newbie fighter

types.  First, check to see if it's thermoplastic!  (Some types of

plastic will burn before they melt)  Try a _small_ piece, since

burning plastic produces toxic fumes.

 

1)  If you have a toaster oven and small pieces, put the pieces on

aluminum foil.  Set oven to about 400 or so, until it softens.  Bend

pieces as desired.  Quench in cold water.

 

2)  Boiling water will work for _some_ plastics.  I haven't yet tried

boiling oil.  

 

3)  _Very_ carefully hold the plastic above the burners. This is

easier if you have a gas burner.

 

Fujimoto

 

 

From: ba09058 at bingsuni.cc.binghamton.edu (ba09058)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: bending plastic

Date: 11 Nov 1993 12:41:50 -0500

Organization: Binghamton University, Binghamton, NY

 

Another method is to get a PROPANE torch, the kind used for brass and copper

plumbing work. You can get them in most Wal-Mart type stores in the hard ware

section. They are excellent for heating barrel plastic (carwash soap barrels

specifically). You should heat the plastic from both sides until it starts to

flex. Water cooling is recomended as this method gets the plastic pretty hot, and standing around holding the plastic in shape for twenty minutes while it cools is pretty dull. (Needlessly time consuming too!)

 

                     - Myrddin

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: gregsta at microsoft.com (Gregory Stapleton)

Subject: Re: Gauntlet Questions

Organization: Microsoft Corp.

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 16:18:20 GMT

 

peterbi at microsoft.com wrote:

> Good Day; I am working on some armor and a few questions have come to mind.

>

> What sort of wax is Courboulli (sp?) made with? (Beeswax, parafin, Italian

> ear wax, etc.)

>

> Does anyone have any tips for handling/shaping ABS? I will be working with 1/8

> and 1/4 inch thicknesses, and I need to bend it.  The heat gun has worked okay

> for spot manipulation but what about whole pieces? People have mentioned the

> oven but I don't know temperatures, times, etc.

>

> Any/all suggestions are appreciated.  I am building some demi-period Japanese

> hand guards that could be very cool looking and work at the same time,

> and I really don't want to make too much of a hash of it.  They have

> cotton, leather and horse-hair padding, calfskin glove inners, and ABS outer

> armor.

>

> Thanks very much for your time,

> Peter (peterbi at microsfoft.com)

 

I recently finished my 1/4" ABS armor and I heated the pieces in the oven at 300 degrees Farheniet for 5 to 7 minutes.  You would need to check your pieces every 3 minutes or so and see how your oven performs, as ovens aren't all uniform, unfortunately.  I liked to get the ABS as soft as well-soaked leather in terms of pliability. Use oven mitts to handle the pieces.

 

Yours in Service,

Gawain Kilgore

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: jbeltzner at TrentU.CA

Subject: Re: Gauntlet Questions

Organization: Trent University, Peterborough

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 1994 05:38:35 GMT

 

Peter Writes:

>Does anyone have any tips for handling/shaping ABS?  I will be working with 1/8

>and 1/4 inch thicknesses, and I need to bend it.  The heat gun has worked okay

>for spot manipulation but what about whole pieces? People have mentioned the

>oven but I don't know temperatures, times, etc.

>

I've heard of the oven method as well, but don't realy recommend it... it

smells up the house something awful and if you overcook it, you have a lot of

really tough cleaning to do.  Personally, I've found that using an old grill

over the barbeque works great... how long do you leave it on there?  Just keep

schecking it every minute or so until you find that it's easily pliable... you

may want to get a pair of cheap or old oven mitts for this task as well (cheap

and old work OK...

 

In service,

Malachai Shel Ha Cheitz Shavar

Petrea Thule, Septentria, Ealdormere

JBELTZNER at TRENTU.CA

 

 

From: dneedham at csi.compuserve.com (Douglas Wade Needham)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: plastic barrel armor

Date: 24 Feb 1994 12:54:41 -0500

 

jf471003 at longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (J.Fleischer) writes:

>In article <94052.145106IO10426 at MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, <IO10426 at MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:

>|>    I have a question about the use of plastic barrels for armoring:

>              (..stuff..)

>|>      How well can the stuff be shaped/dished/stretched?  I remember doing

>|> stuff like that in metals shop in highschool, heating it up in a kiln

>|> and then forming it as it cooled...could I use a conventional electric oven?

>|>      How durable is it for articulation?  If I want holes to stay how far

>|> or close to the edge of the lame or section is safe?  Do they pull through

>|> the plastic often?

>              (..more stuff..)

>|> Marcellus

>|> Endewearde

>

>Well, I originated my SCA career in a small college based shire.. and  

>plastic body armor was the _NORM_ there. :^) As you can imgaine it was very

>practical as a cheap, easyily made armor for the transitory college fighting

>population. During my stay I saw many different designs for the plastic armor

>and there were two that stick in my mind as eminently practical and very sturdy

>pieces of work. But neither one of these designs used _any_ articulation... and

>in my experience it is very very unnessecary to articulate a plastic armor (at

>least in the body). The only other things I've seen done with plastic are 1-peice

>vambraces and the occaisonal plastic elbow cops... Although with ABS there have

>been a couple of people who made succesfull articulations that I've heard of.. I

>just dont know anything about how. (I think there was a merchant selling a full

>gothic plate suit made of ABS at last Estrella... )

 

I love the cheap part!  Except my vambraces and helmet, I use BLUE plastic

armour.  I have articulated legs and elbows (using the pattern from the KWHB

with modifications...add about 2-3cm to each dimension to account for the

thickness) and have hot glued padding to the inside of the armour.  It works

great, but you may go through 2 or 3 generations before you get it

really confortable to wear.  However, the body armour is still lacking

and I am thinking of using a medium weight leather (7-8oz. or so) and placing

plates inside of it.  It does not match the looks of steel, and I

always get ribbed about being a giant 6ft. blueberry by friends as I wear blue

almost exclusively!  Only other problem is it slips on many surfaces

so fighting from the knees is somewhat difficult.

 

>     In my experience if you are taking this plastic from one of the big

>55-gallon drums it almost never needs to be shaped.. the curvature is already

>very close to most of the human body. But if you use pickle buckets for the

>plastic you can shape them pretty well by using a $7 propane torch from

>Wal-Mart.. just be careful about leaving the torch on any one spot to long.. you

>can blacken and bubble and even (this takes a VERY long time) catch the plastic

>on fire. Do this in a well ventilated room. As for making holes in the plastic a

>regular power drill works just fine.. just give about a 1/4-/12 and inch from any

>edge of the plate before you drill. I don't know about that oven thing..   never

>tried it. But I hear thats how they do ABS..

>     In service to the DREAM,

>     Caradoc ap Rhys

 

Yes, a very ventilated room.  (Here comes my HAZ-MAT training) The

gases given off from hot plastic can be quite toxic even at low levels

(I avoid PVC, try to avoid ABS, and prefer HDPE), and if any burning

or charring occurs, you can get nasty things like HCN gas (quite

deadly).  Depending on the torch and the plastic, this may not take

quite as long as you think.  As for the oven, avoid it since

ventilation is more difficult, and you get better temperature control

(including localization of the heat) with the torch after a little

practice.  I have seen to many peices go from too stiff to being too

hot and small in a very short time.  IMHO With the torch this does not

happen as easily and you can do some pretty tight turns this way.

 

A couple of hints for you.

 

  0) Practice heating some scraps before you ever heat a piece of your

     armour.  Get a feel for how it works.  Do it for every barrel

     (they do differ some) or if you have been away from it for more

     than a day or two.

 

  1) Round the edges a bit (like \_/ ) then use the torch to lightly melt

     the plastic (Be really careful about ventilation at this stage and

     do it outside on a breezy day, standing upwind). This is about the

     only time I try to melt the plastic.  Be careful about the

     liquid... need I say that it is hot, drips and runs, and that it is

     what will burn.  Do this before bending.

 

  2) To shape the plastic, heat it on both sides a bit, but put more heat

     on the outside of the curve (plastic will tend to curve away from

     the hotter side unless you start melting it).

 

  3) Go slow.  Let the heat soak in really well.  Rushing just causes

     the outside to get too hot and possibly melt, and the curve will

     leave the piece sooner if you do not get the interior warm enough.

 

  4) Use the bottom of the barrel as a cooling basin. Form the piece,

     tie it in shape if possible, then quench it in cold water.  Let it

     soak the heat out when the shape is suitable.

 

My first set of legs and arms were rushed and flattened out so that they

became springs which wanted to keep my arms and legs straight.  I used

them at Pennsic two years ago, but after that they had already

flattened from the warm sun.  The legs I use now survived all last

summer and never flattened a bit (even after getting hot enough to

burn me a few times).  You learn with practice and experimentation.

 

Have fun and let me know how this works for you!                 +--------+

                                                                 | *  //  |

In service to the DREAM, the MidRealm, and the Marshallate...    |   //   |

Cinnion map Lluien map Higuel (of Tirnewydd)                     |  //    |    

Member: 38678                                                    \ *  * /

                                                                   ------

*******************************************************************************

Douglas Wade Needham                            BSD kernel programmer

Email: dneedham at csi.compuserve.com  -or-       dneedham at oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu

USnail:      Compuserve                      216 S. Burgess Ave.

      5000 Arlington Centre Blvd.        Columbus OH 43204

      Columbus, OH 43220

Voice:  (614)457-8600                   (614)274-0769

 

 

From: meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org (meg)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: re: plastic armor

Date: Thu, 24 Feb 94 00:44:58 EST

Organization: Stonemarche Network Co-op

 

And then there was the infamous Stonemarche Industrial Strength

Armor--for all I know it may still be kicking around the Barony

somewhere.It was made from giant blue Industrial Floor Cleaner

Containers.  Whoever made the armor had the decency to paint most of it

flat black, and the good humor to leave the breastplate unpainted.  The

writing on the breastplate read:

                   DANGER!

       DO NOT USE NEAR YOUNG CHILDREN OR PETS.

       WARNING - MAY CAUSE WET AND SLIPPERY FLOORS.

 

Of course, my personal favorite is the fighter at Pennsic who has the

heater shield made from a traffic sign which says (facing the viewer)

                      YIELD

 

Megan, who remembers the days when "chainmail" was silver spray-painted

waffle weave longjohns.

==

In 1994: Linda Anfuso

In the Current Middle Ages: Megan ni Laine de Belle Rive  

In the SCA, Inc: sustaining member # 33644

 

                                YYY     YYY

meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org      |  YYYYY  |

                                |____n____|

 

 

From: Jester.Of.Anglesea at f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Jester Of Anglesea)

Date: 25 Feb 94 17:01:06 -0500

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Plastic Armor

Organization: Fidonet:TIDMADT 703-765-0822 (1:109/120)

 

        I'm currently getting rid of my plastic armor piece-by-

        piece as I replace it with metal or leather.  It was

        constructed out of a black plastic 55-gallon barrel and

        was shaped by heating it in an electric oven, forming it

        to the appropriate shape, and then rapidly cooling it by

        dousing it with cold water.  This procedure is dangerous

        if you are using an actual body for the forming process.

        When we make leg armor in this way (the only item we make

        using the human body as the form) we dress in two layers of

        sweat pants, get the pants soaking wet, and wrap a frozen

        towel (wet it, stick it in the freezer for two or three hours)

        around the leg.  One person, wearing welder's gloves, holds

        the piece to the leg and another uses a garden hose to cool

        the piece off.

          My armor is lorica segmentata based on period illustrations,

        statues, and the reconstruction efforts of various scholars.

        I created a pattern that was fitted to my body, leaving a

        margin to be hand-trimmed to obtain the best fit. I used a

        jig-saw to cut the pieces to shape, sandpaper to smooth the

        edges, and a regular hand drill to drill holes.  I left at

        least a quarter of an inch margin around each hole and have

        not experienced any ripping as of yet.  I used ornate, brass

        door hinges to hold several pieces together and scrap leather

        to hold the rest.

          The only problem I encountered involved the rivets that I

        used.  I was unable to find rivets with sufficient body

        length.  Consequently, I've lost a piece or two when the rivet

        simply lost it's grip.

          I considered making elbows and knees but rejected the idea.

        I've seen too many people who suffered joint injuries to want

        to join their ranks, and while I feel that plastic armor is

        sufficient to protect my body I want *metal* on my joints.

          My plastic armor has kept me very safe.  It's light enough

        to wear comfortably, rigid enough to take the sting out of a

        shot while still letting me accurately gauge the force of the

        blow.  Because it is flat black it is very often mistaken for

        cuirboiled leather (even at short distances) and I've received

        a number of compliments on it.  It's a good starter project

        and I highly recommend it.  Good luck.

 

                Jester of Anglesea

                MKA: Tony Jordan

 

 

From: michael.mccollum at dazed.charleston.sc.us (Michael Mccollum)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: plastic armour

Date: 17 Mar 95 16:04:00 GMT

Organization: Dazed & Confused BBS - Ladson, SC - 803.873.5797

 

Hiya Victoria,

 

VG> And then there are some fighting personas that almost require the

VG> use of plastic in order to present not only an authentic appearance,

VG> but also an authentic fighting style.

 

VG> I'm curious....if I used plastic armour...would painting it with

VG> Aluminum  paint make it more "period"? Or must I still put a tabard

VG> over it?

 

You'll probably receive lots of suggestions in this area, but I

like my hubby's solution. When he has made plastic armour in the

past, just before he was ready to strap each piece he would cover

it with an appropriate color of velvet. He did this by applying 3-M

Marine adhesive spray to the plastic then laid the velvet over it

and applied pressure overnight. He trims the velvet so it overlaps

the edges and applies the adhesive spray to the backside of the

piece and applies pressure to it overnight again. Once the velvet

is applied he puts his straps on. I've also seen him drill holes in

the edges of the piece and after the velvet's on he puts decorative

rivets around the piece. It turns out very nice this way and keeps

him from having to wear lots of flowing surcoates, etc.  I hope

this suggestion finds some merit with you.

 

Just trying to help out where I can.

 

Katie

aka Arianne

 

 

From: Theo Wooten <kutedge at azstarnet.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Plastic is Period!

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 10:31:27 -0700

 

I have been following this thread all the way down and I am having trouble with a number of points. So my friends settle back and get comfy because I am going to climb up on my soap box then step into the pulpit. Frist of all I would like to remind everybody of the Game that we Play. This is a game of make believe, a game of let's pretend. A Dream time......As they might have been, Not as they should have been. This is a game of Chivalry and Honor. We welcome any and all to the game. As time has gone on I have seen a change in the way the SCA has been played and it seems to me that people are more intereasted in politis and power bases and have for gotten what we are suppose to be doing, recreating the middle ages as they should have been. When I go to and event even though there are cars and plastic ice coolers and eye glasses I do not see the golf carts or the eleciric street lights for I see the middle ages, I see Kings and Queens, Knights and Lords, Ladys in pretty dresses and Chivlry is in the air. Please I beg of you remember the dream and the society we try to recreate. I hope

that will clear up the point about Period.

 

     Point number two:

I make plastic armor for a living. I do it seven days a week all day long and I can say that it is a lot of hard work. Just as much as steel for you have to still do all of the same steps as you do in steel. Oh by the way steel isn't period either. The modern steels that we use have too much nickel in them. Armor was made of pig iron and coke a very low grade of steel and that is why armor was known to shatter.

 

Point Three:

  Pickle Barrel as it is known as is polyvinyl chloride alloying with acrylic. Better known as kydex I do not recommend this material for use as armor. It does not have the strength to withstand the blows of some of our figthers. In my armor that I make I use acrylonitrile butadiene styrene better known as ABS plastic. It has a much higher tensile strength than kydex and is uv resistance which stops it from breaking down in the sun. I can give you the numbers if you want them. All of my patterns were taken from real pices of armor and are as authentic as I can make them. I ask all of you to look at my home page at http://www.azstarnet.com/~kutedge/index.html then please tell me that my armor is period or not. And if not how may I make It more Period.

 

   Point Four:

My frist suit of armor cost $20 dollars, it was carpet and duct tape. I have made suits of leather and steel. I have been in the society for 23 years and have been a knight for 22years and yes, I am the merchant at potrero that the gentle spoke of on an earlier thread. I can no longer fight on the field of honor due to a heart attack so I make armor to get as many fighters on the field to participate in the dream.

 

   So in closing dear friends just remember what dream we are trying to play and let all of us play whether you are a history buff or a fanticy Robin Hood,there is room for both. Lets have fun.

 

In Service to a different dream,

 

Count Master Sir Theo drawf monster Crusedeen, Lord Mightrinwood AoA, KSCA, Pel,

O.Q.G., O.L.A., OoS. One of the Nine Worthes of the Known World

Deputy Earl Marshall for the Kingdom of Atenveldt

Theo Wooten

Ye Olde Kutting Edge Armory

216 W Flores St.

Tucson AZ 85705

(520)622-7234

kutedge at azstarnet.com

Home Page:http://www.azstarnet.com/~kutedge/index.html

 

 

From: amazing at mail.utexas.edu (dennis grace)

To: ansteorra at eden.com

Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 15:23:05 -0500

Subject: Re: Plastic for Armor

 

Greetings, Mistress Gunnora and anyone else interested.

 

Sir Lyonel here.  As a fairly small fighter from a northern clime where

everyone wears much armor (which means they all hit pretty hard, too), I

have been a long time practitioner of the not-quite-forbidden art of plastic

armor.  It provides full coverage without adding much weight.  

 

>What kind of plastic is being used for armor?  Where do you get it?  Is it

>being heat shaped?  

 

The plastics of choice for armor are ABS and Kydex.  Kydex is stronger but

costs almost twice as much as ABS and is dangerous to work.  (I saw some

other plastics mentioned in the Rialto archives, but I know nothing about

them.)  You can get either of these from nearly any plastics shop.  A-1 and

Regal, here in Austin, carry both varieties.  1/8" sheets of ABS run $48 per

4X8' sheet at A-1; I think the Kydex was about $78 per sheet.  Both

varieties also come in 3/16" sheets--highly recommended for leg armor--and

the price increase tends to be directly proportional to the increase in

material (i.e.--50% more than 1/8" sheets).

 

>I have a set of knees and elbows made of some dark black plastic that are

>really sturdy, and which I suspect were heat-shaped. I have some really

>nifty A&S ideas that would involve using this type of plastic as molds and

>frameworks and stuff.  I'd really appreciate any information I can find

>about this type of plastic.

 

The plastic is most easily cut on a jigsaw, but I've usually used a set of

beverly shears for the big cuts and a dremel tool for cleanup.

 

You are no doubt correct about the heat shaping.  It can be accomplished in

at least three ways within my ken.  My method of preference is an oven on a

clean cookie sheet at 250F.  After about five to ten minutes, the plastic

softens to a consistency similar to that of supple leather.  Handle the

plastic only with heavy oven mitts or welder's gloves (tongs will scar the

plastic).  You'll have about five minutes to form the plastic.  Remember, I

was using ABS.  Kydex takes (I think--check with your supplier) a 300F oven,

and Kydex puts out cyanide gas if it gets too hot.

 

You can also heat the plastic with an industrial hot air gun (blow dryer's

don't generate enough heat), but this process is tedious and uneven.  On of

the Rialto archives also suggests a barbecue, which would avoid filling your

home with that warm plastic smell.

 

As for forming, I've primarily relied upon custom fitting. You place a wet

towel over the appendage to be armored, and have your two helpers in oven

mitts wrap the plastic over the appendage and hold/smooth it into place

while you grow increasingly uncomfortable.  With the 3/16" ABS, we always

had to stop before the process was complete and change the towel.  Otherwise

the armored individual would suffer some rather large first-degree burns.

You can use a similar method to form the plastic on molds that don't have

too deep a curveor too many complex angles.

 

You can also dish the leather-hard ABS into a stump concavity in much the

same manner as steel.  Instead of a ball-pean hammer, use a rubber mallet.

You'll want to dish the plastic quickly and then quench it.  The result is

harder than the original.

 

Sir Gaston (the knight who helped ESPN cover Estrella War a few years

back) runs a special effects shop in Hollywood, and he makes most of his

very fancy armour of ABS covered in colorful suede or velvet (I have photos,

if you're interested).  He uses a vacuum mold to make smooth round things.

He tells me you don't need a fancy shop to do this, just make your molds of

thick plaster or concrete, forming the mold with a 1/4" length of poly

tubing (aquarium airline would do) pushed through before it dries (or

carefully placed and poured around).  To apply vacuum just attach a standard

vacuum cleaner hose to the poly tube with (what else) massive amounts of

duct tape.

 

I hope some of this has been of assistance to you, Mistress.  Come on out to

Bryn Gwlad Fighter practice, and I'll show you my armor. Feel free to call

or write if I can answer any further questions on this matter. You might

also want to check those Rialto archive files.

 

Yours in Sturdy Lightweight Service

 

Sir Lyonel Oliver Grace

____________________________________

Dennis G. Grace

Postmodern Medievalist

 

 

From: dennis guy grace <amazing at mail.utexas.edu>

To: ansteorra at eden.com

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 11:49:32 -0500

Subject: Re: Plastic for Armor

 

Sir Lyonel here.

 

At 11:38 AM 10/14/96 +0000, Scot Eddy wrote:

>I don't know what the official name for the plastic is (I've heard it

>called Kydex, but I'm not sure whether that's correct or not) but it's

>obtained most commonly from 55 gallon barrels bought from any car

>wash. They are used to transport the detergent so be sure to wash them

>out thouroughly in a carwash bay (the easiest way)

>

>The plastic is formed on of two ways that I know of. If there are

>gentles who know of other ways please feel free to add those. Here is

>how I have made shield baskets, elbows and knees, and other bits of

>body armor.

>

>Heat your kitchen stove to 350 degrees, fill your sink with cold

>water, cut your plastic in the desired shape, and place it in the

>oven. WATCH it until it begins to droop (sorry there is no exact time

>to leave it in) Using leather work gloves pull out the plastic and

>form it. "Quench" it in the sink until it regains it's original

>rigidity and hardness. A Drill and sabre saw are sufficent to work the

>material.

 

Sorry to nit-pick, but I consider this an important safety matter.  First, I

think most of the detergent bottles are ABS.  Kydex is a bit expensive for

such mundane uses and generally gets saved for things like furniture and

truck beds and the like.  Just on the (not so) off chance that I'm wrong,

though, don't set your oven that high.  Kydex exudes HCN before reaching

that temperature.  ABS doesn't put out the toxins, but it still smells worse

at a higher temperature.  Double checking my notes on the two plastics, I

find that ABS will soften in a 250F oven and Kydex takes about 280 to 300F.

Not much margin for error.  

 

Also, you can cut ABS on a beverly shears.

 

>If you get black plastic it does a darned good job of imitating

>leather courbuillie (sp?). See my klibanion that i wear on the field.

>It definitely passes the 10 FT. rule.

 

And, unlike real courbouille, the plastic won't absorb sweeat stench or

soften when it gets wet.  Unlike the SCA courbouille (wax-hardened), the

plastic won't soften, sweat wax, or smell like honey on hot days.  I've

fought in my black ABS armor on 102F days (please, let's not get personal in

the responses) and noted no consequent deformation.  

 

If the appearance bothers you, you can also cover the plastic with thin

suede or cloth--glue them on with 3M marine cement or a similar compound--or

hide them  undera cyclas, tabard, or skarta.  

 

Yours in Virtual Service

 

Sir Lyonel Oliver Grace

Dennis G. Grace

Postmodern Medievalist

 

 

From: Scott White <swhite at onr.com>

To: ansteorra at eden.com

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 12:07:08 -0500

Subject: Re: Plastic for Armor

 

I've been making plastic armor from ABS for a while & even tried making

36-piece plastic finger gauntlets this weekend. (They came out looking like

big, ridiculous Darth Vader hands and the plastic is just plain too thick to

do really well-tuned fingers, but it was a fun project and will probably

translate easily into mittens.)

 

However, I learned a couple cool things this weekend. First, I had been

shaping my pieces in an oven, which, like Jovian said, is cool for big

things but tuning them using the oven can be a real bear. So I got a $20

heat gun and boy it works like a charm! It enabled me to shape & reshape all

those small finger articulations with very little headache, plus it allowed

me to make some much-needed adjustments on my other finished armor. A great

tool for your arsenal!

 

Second, a belt sander works best for rounding the edges of the plastic

(DON'T skip this step or your armor will cut you to shreds!). However, I

don't own one and spent a long time struggling to find a low-cost

alternative. This weekend I happened upon it -- get a 2 1/2" barrel sander

bit for your drill motor. Rough in the edges with that, Then spend a minute

or two polishing w. fine sandpaper and it'll make those edges glassy smooth.

 

By the way, folks, I AM going to cover the overly-shiny, overtly plastic

stuff as soon as I get my designs tuned. It's not really that noticable on

my vambraces & gorget, but I agree that the pauldrons do look sorta

'spacey.' At any rate, let's please NOT resurrect the silly & ugly

steel/plastic debate recently banged out in rec.org.sca, OK?

 

If you attend Bryn Gwlad fighter practices, look me up & I'll be happy to

talk plastic with ya.

 

Gnith

<swhite at onr.com>

 

 

From: amazing at mail.utexas.edu (dennis grace)

To: ansteorra at eden.com

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 16:36:04 -0500

Subject: Re: Plastic Quenching

 

Lyonel here.

 

>Point of discussion on plastic armor:

>

>I started out quenching my pieces after baking but have since heard that

>quenching degrades strength of plastic coz the molecules line up differently

>when the outside is cooled more suddenly than the inside.

>

>I now let my armor air cool after baking but I really haven't done any A/B

>strength comparisons between quenched & air-cooled armor.

>

>Any insight?

 

C'est vrai.  Sort of.  The resultant plastic is harder, but that means it's

also more brittle.  We (my friends in the armoring group in Artemisia)

allowed our armor to cool slowly when body forming or mold forming.  The

plastic keeps trying to relax, but you can smooth it back into shape with

welding gloves or oven mitts.  Also, for vacuum forming, the vacuum speeds

the cooling process slightly and holds the shape until you turn off the vacuum.

 

For dishing, however, you need to be able to quench the plastic.  Otherwise,

not only will you have to keep pounding for twenty minutes, but the plastic

will end up too thin. Sir Wulfstan in the East Kingdom uses the dish/quench

sequence for knees and elbows in part because it provides a deeper curve but

also for the added hardness on those critical joints. Kutting Edge Armory

(they advertise through Chivalry sports) uses press molds on their knees and

elbows, and the resulting joints are not as deep or as solid.

 

Yours in Plastic

 

Sir Lyonel Oliver Grace

________________________

Dennis G. Grace

Postmodern Medievalist

 

 

Subject: Plastic armor

Date: Tue, 04 Aug 98 13:26:40 MST

From: "tdowling" <tdowling at lsc.org>

To: markh at risc

 

I wandered into your site accidentally.  I do not know too much about armor use but I can tell you a bit about plastics.  Most plastic barrels are made of commodity grade polyethylene. This is a fairly inert polyolefin. Polypropylene another choice is similar, a little harder, and slightly less chemical resistant.  The chemical resistance makes them almost impossible to paint, but some adhesives e.g. pressure sensitive gum-resins can used to attach foil or other lables.

 

The poly clan varies in physical properties based on molecular weight, cross linking, branching and linearity of molecules.  The barrels, unless they were made for food, pharmeceutical, or exacting chemical use may vary quite a bit in properties such as impact resistance at a given temp.  This is because a buyer might say, get me 150 tons of LDPE at the best price on the spot market. So, you could have a range of quality in the finished, allegedly identical product. The person who suggested cold impact tests like charpy, etc. is right.  Also heat forming the poly can alter the properties a bit so testing a sample that has been processsed might help.

 

In the less critical applications these days, lots of recycled poly, usually dark grey or greenish is out there.  This has unpredictable quality and inhomogenities that could lead to cracking.  Long term exposure to petroleum products or toxic chemicals can permeate polyethylene rendering it weaker and toxic to heat or possibly cut.  Colorants and UV resistance additives might also be present.  Otherwise, virgin PE and PP are chemically related to candle wax, and not unusually toxic, even when burned.

 

You might also look into vacuum forming.  Lindsay Publications (do a net search) has lots of odd technology books, including info on DIY vacuum formers. With these techniques you could also get into high impact plastics such as Lexan (Merlon, in the U.K.).  These might be obtained as scraps from a sign maker. Vandal resistant transit bus and other similar windows are also made from lexan. It is "soft" so it scratches and becomes less transparent, and may be retired while still mechanically strong enough for your uses.

 

I also have seen an I.D. testing chart from a plastics industry council. This is out  of print, but reappears from time to time as a promo item put out by plastics dealers and recyclers.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Tom Dowling tdowling at lsc,org

 

 

Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 10:16:44 -0500

From: Tracey Steele <tnew at toltec.astate.edu>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: SCA armor

 

I do believe you are referring to Kidex (sp?) armor. Several members of

my shire own pieces of it.  One person in my household even bought an

entire set of this armor at Gulf Wars!

 

Below are two sites that  might be useful to you.  I hope this helps!

 

Wisby Plate armor using plastic buckets:

http://www.duke.edu/~ricks/wisbylb.htm

 

Armoring site - their links page is wonderful!:

http://www.armourarchive.com/frameset.html

 

Cicilia

 

 

Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 11:15:21 -0500 (CDT)

From: "Pixel, Queen of Cats" <pixel at hundred-acre-wood.com>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: SCA armor

 

Kydex, though, can apparently become brittle when exposed to low

temperatures for any length of time, so around here (MN) we use ABS

plastic. Works the same way, but doesn't shatter in January. Pickle

barrels are functional, but ugly. ABS and Kydex have the advantage that

you can shape them to look like plate or leather.

 

Margaret FitzWilliam of Kent

Tor Aerie

 

 

Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 12:19:21 -0500 (CDT)

From: "Pixel, Queen of Cats" <pixel at hundred-acre-wood.com>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: SCA armor

 

> But... this other plastic mentioned....  Kydex and ABS plastic... where

> is a reliable reasonable source to get this and what is a heat gun?

>

> Bere

 

ABS and Kydex can be obtained in 4'x8' sheets. Check in the Yellow Pages

for places that sell industrial plastics. For example, I found our usual

supplier listed under Plastics--Rods, Tubes, Sheets, Etc. Cut it with a

standard bandsaw or skilsaw, heat it in the oven at 300F until pliable.

Form it over a body part or over a rigid heat-proof form. If you're using

a body part, insulate it with a towel or similar so you don't burn

yourself. It also insures room for padding the armor.

 

Kydex comes in nifty colors, ABS I know comes in black and red. I've never

seen it in any other color. You can sand it and drill it with no problems.

High impact will cause it to fracture, though.

 

My body armor, which is a modified Wisby coat, has plates of ABS to

minimize the weight. My leg armor, shoulder spaulder and lames, and

vambraces are also all ABS. The formed pieces were done over a metal form,

or over my leg, depending on which piece. We used the heat gun to flare

the edges of the knee cops after forming.

 

A heat gun is like a heavy-duty hair dryer, that is used to heat-shrink

shrink wrap packaging and other such applications. You could probably find

one in a large hardware or home-improvement store, especially one that

caters to contractors.

 

Margaret FitzWilliam

Tor Aerie

 

 

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 20:27:45 -0400

From: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: SCA armor

 

Bere Patterson wrote:

> I had heard that a lot of folks use some plastic type substance that

> can be heated in the oven then molded over the desired body part to form

> a base for armor. Does anyone know off hand where I can get information

> about this?

>

> Berengaria

> costume at earthlink.net

> www.patternsoftime.com

 

There is/was a person doing this with Kydex in my kingdom years ago.

After he badly burned himself by using his leg, which he thought

was adequately covered to protect himself, he switched to what I

believe he said were clay molds to drape the oven heated plastic over.

He became quite adept at it, and made a number of armors for others.

As I recall Kydex was a mixture of acrylic / pvc according to him.

 

If Bauschamp? Paul still plays in Atlantia I don't know. I haven't

seen him on our kingdom list. I took his armor class fifteen years

ago.

 

Having worked in a place that did vacuum forming I can tell you

the temperature is several hundred degrees. When it starts to sag

is when it's moldable. I do not advocate molding on body parts,

and I suggest you ask someone in your area doing vacuumforming.

Maybe get a look at the process.  We generally used wood (cherry or

mahogany) or aluminum molds cast from the wooden ones. How big?

well, up to 5 x 6 feet and a quarter of an inch thick.

Never handle hot plastic without protection and gloves.

Melted plastic sticks to you and takes a while to cool. I used

to solvent and stick weld and bend the stuff as well.

 

Kydex I never worked with.

Mostly ABS, PVC or styrene for what we did.

Also polypropylene, polyethelene, acrylics, and polycarbonates.

 

Magnus

 

 

Subject: ANST - barrel armour

Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 19:07:23 MST

From: "Rhonda & Chuck Leggett" <leggettr at netzero.net>

To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>

 

Greetings, my fellow subject.  Please allow me to introduce myself.

I am known as Marion du Massue   (pronounced "Massey"), and I may

be able to help with some of your questions.  I have helped some few

new fighters to build armour out of those big industrial plastic drums, and

they are fairly simple, very sturdy, and easily maintained.

 

First item: Make sure you know what they were used for.  Car washes

sometimes can be talked out of them (these are usually white), and

you can feel fairly confident that whatever was in them was probably

not a hazardous substance -- just rinse it out 'till there are no suds.

If you buy them from a recycle place, you may want to make sure to

find one with a contents label that is legible & understandable.

 

Second item: Let's build something.  I generally cut the ends off with a

circular (power) saw, then cut it roughly in half lengthwise (end-to-end).

Then I can cut some strips "crosswise" and some strips "lengthwise."

This way, when I cut the panels, or plates, I have some curved in either

direction to fit the shapes & contours of the body.  The plates for the

torso (kidney belt) are about 8-9 inches high by 4-5 inches wide; the

upper chest and upper back plates are about 5 inches square, and the

shoulders are about the same.  Tassets (skirting) is a good idea, especially

for inexperianced fighters, and can reduce the demand for leg armor (much

more complex to make).

 

Third item: Let's assemble it.  My favorite means of assembly is to use

round workboot laces, preferably long ones.  They are tough, strong, readily

available, and pre-threaded. A bootlace in the armor box IS your repair

kit.  Just remember when you drill the (pairs of) holes in your plates to

drill them large enough to lace easily, but small enough that the knots (on

the outside)  can't pull through. Don't worry- the holes can't stretch.

Now for the hard part: Although I have made knees & elbows out of this, it

really isn't worth the effort.  Cheap steel ones can be had, better &

easier.  However, if you wish, send me a fax  # or a mailing address and

I'll send you a pattern that can work with a heat gun & welding gloves.

Since this material is a similar thickness to leather. then you can use a

leather vambrace pattern and a heat gun (or oven), but be sure to allow room

for padding.

 

I will use this as a seguey to the last item: PAD it. This material has many

advantages, one of which is NOT shock absorbancy.

Helmets will have to addressed elsewhere.  Sorry 'bout that.

Hope this helps.  It really is that simple.

 

        Yours in service,

                       Marion du Massue

                                (leggettr at netzero.net)

 

 

Subject: ANST - Plastic armor

Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 10:25:30 MST

From: "Lawrence D. Ruiz" <lruiz at interconnect.net>

To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>

 

HL Isabol,

Down here in Seawinds we have been making the plastic armor for the Youth

Boffer and Youth Chivalric for a while mainly because the price is right up

their alley (free).  We use two basic patterns available on the web.  The

first is the Wisby coat of plates held together with Nylon Strapping, brass

rivets, and parachute cord. To bend the plastic to conform to the human

body (SECRET TRADE SECRET) Put the cut plastic in the oven at 250 degrees

for 5 minutes.  Pull the plastic out and form it to the shape you want then

put it in a cold sink of water.

 

The second design, segmenta lorica, I like better as it is more durable than

the Wisby as all the pieces are glancing surfaces in the down direction

(unless you hit the shoulders).  This pattern is also available on the

internet.  We use Nylon strapping (1 1/2" wide and a little 1" for the

buckles on the legs), parachute cord, and brass rivets.

The next design that we have not had anyone interested in making, but is

possible is lamellar.  This would look sharp with different color parachute

cord on a black barrel. Several variations of this pattern is available on

the web.

 

Someone mentioned before the white plastic barrel.  These can be used to

make bone armor.

 

Construction time for a suit is usually about 20 hours.  A typical teenager

uses a barrel and a half for an entire suit of armor (we don't use 4" from

the end of the barrels as the plastic is too thick there).  To clean a

barrel with acid in it, use a base, like baking soda and water.  We rinse

the barrels three times with baking soda before working on them.  Our

barrels cost us $10 each.

 

Hope this helps, HL Isabol, and anyone else interested in getting their

children in armor.

 

Ld. Lawrence the Rampant of Ram's Isle

 

 

Subject: Re: ANST - Plastic armor

Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 19:07:56 MST

From: JEvans5420 at aol.com

To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org

 

<<Where on the Internet is the segmenta lorica?

 

http://www.dayton.net/~lawson/loricasegmentata.html

 

<the end>



Formatting copyright © Mark S. Harris (THLord Stefan li Rous).
All other copyrights are property of the original article and message authors.

Comments to the Editor: stefan at florilegium.org