armor-msg - 9/27/08
਀ഊGeneral comments on armor, SCA armor.
਀ഊNOTE: See also the files: armor-leather-msg, armor-plastic-msg, duct-tape-msg, p-armor-msg, pottery-wepns-msg, rattan-msg, SCAweapons-msg, chainmail-msg.
਀ഊ************************************************************************
਀一伀吀䤀䌀䔀 ⴀഊ
਀吀栀椀猀 昀椀氀攀 椀猀 愀 挀漀氀氀攀挀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 栀愀瘀椀渀最 愀 挀漀洀洀漀渀 琀栀攀洀攀 琀栀愀琀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 挀漀氀氀攀挀琀攀搀 昀爀漀洀 洀礀 爀攀愀搀椀渀最 漀昀 琀栀攀 瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 挀漀洀瀀甀琀攀爀 渀攀琀眀漀爀欀猀⸀ 匀漀洀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 搀愀琀攀 戀愀挀欀 琀漀 ㄀㤀㠀㤀Ⰰ 猀漀洀攀 洀愀礀 戀攀 愀猀 爀攀挀攀渀琀 愀猀 礀攀猀琀攀爀搀愀礀⸀ഊ
਀吀栀椀猀 昀椀氀攀 椀猀 瀀愀爀琀 漀昀 愀 挀漀氀氀攀挀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 昀椀氀攀猀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 匀琀攀昀愀渀✀猀 䘀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀⸀ 吀栀攀猀攀 昀椀氀攀猀 愀爀攀 愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀 漀渀 琀栀攀 䤀渀琀攀爀渀攀琀 愀琀㨀 栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀昀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀⸀漀爀最ഊ
਀䤀 栀愀瘀攀 搀漀渀攀 愀 氀椀洀椀琀攀搀 愀洀漀甀渀琀 漀昀 攀搀椀琀椀渀最⸀ 䴀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 栀愀瘀椀渀最 琀漀 搀漀 眀椀琀栀 猀攀瀀愀爀愀琀攀 琀漀瀀椀挀猀 眀攀爀攀 猀漀洀攀琀椀洀攀猀 猀瀀氀椀琀 椀渀琀漀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀 昀椀氀攀猀 愀渀搀 猀漀洀攀琀椀洀攀猀 攀砀琀爀愀渀攀漀甀猀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀 眀愀猀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀搀⸀ 䘀漀爀 椀渀猀琀愀渀挀攀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀 䤀䐀猀 眀攀爀攀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀搀 琀漀 猀愀瘀攀 猀瀀愀挀攀 愀渀搀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀 挀氀甀琀琀攀爀⸀ഊ
਀吀栀攀 挀漀洀洀攀渀琀猀 洀愀搀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀猀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 愀爀攀 渀漀琀 渀攀挀攀猀猀愀爀椀氀礀 洀礀 瘀椀攀眀瀀漀椀渀琀猀⸀ 䤀 洀愀欀攀 渀漀 挀氀愀椀洀猀 愀猀 琀漀 琀栀攀 愀挀挀甀爀愀挀礀 漀昀 琀栀攀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀 最椀瘀攀渀 戀礀 琀栀攀 椀渀搀椀瘀椀搀甀愀氀 愀甀琀栀漀爀猀⸀ഊ
਀倀氀攀愀猀攀 爀攀猀瀀攀挀琀 琀栀攀 琀椀洀攀 愀渀搀 攀昀昀漀爀琀猀 漀昀 琀栀漀猀攀 眀栀漀 栀愀瘀攀 眀爀椀琀琀攀渀 琀栀攀猀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀⸀ 吀栀攀 挀漀瀀礀爀椀最栀琀 猀琀愀琀甀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀猀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 椀猀 甀渀挀氀攀愀爀 愀琀 琀栀椀猀 琀椀洀攀⸀ 䤀昀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀 椀猀 瀀甀戀氀椀猀栀攀搀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀猀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀Ⰰ 瀀氀攀愀猀攀 最椀瘀攀 挀爀攀搀椀琀 琀漀 琀栀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀琀漀爀⠀猀⤀⸀ഊ
਀吀栀愀渀欀 礀漀甀Ⰰഊ    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
਀                                          匀琀攀昀愀渀 愀琀 昀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀⸀漀爀最ഊ************************************************************************
਀ഊFrom:    Ioseph of Locksley  
਀吀漀㨀      䄀氀氀 ഊDate: 02-Jun-90 12:23pm
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 䄀爀洀漀甀爀ഊ
਀䤀渀 爀攀㨀 琀栀攀 挀漀渀琀椀渀甀椀渀最 挀漀渀瘀攀爀猀愀琀椀漀渀 愀戀漀甀琀 愀爀洀漀甀爀⸀⸀⸀⸀ഊ  
਀吀栀攀 愀戀猀漀氀甀琀攀 戀攀猀琀 愀洀漀甀爀 䤀 攀瘀攀爀 猀愀眀 眀愀猀 ⠀椀猀㼀⤀ 甀猀攀搀 戀礀 匀椀爀 䜀愀猀琀漀渀Ⰰ 氀愀琀攀ഊof Atenveldt and now being annoying over in Caid. 
਀䠀攀 眀愀氀欀攀搀 漀甀琀 漀渀 琀栀攀 昀椀攀氀搀 椀渀 愀 洀漀猀琀 最漀爀最攀漀甀猀 䌀愀瘀愀氀椀攀爀 漀甀琀昀椀琀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 瀀甀琀ഊon his helm. His opponent goggled at him, and then walked over to ask if
਀栀攀 栀愀搀 漀渀 ⨀愀渀礀⨀ 愀爀洀漀甀爀 愀琀 ⨀愀氀氀⸀⨀ഊGaston rapped his sword over his whole body with satisfying -thunk-
਀猀漀甀渀搀猀⸀⸀⸀⸀栀攀 栀愀搀 猀攀眀渀 瀀氀愀琀攀猀 甀渀搀攀爀 琀栀攀 戀攀愀甀琀椀昀甀氀 䌀愀瘀愀氀椀攀爀℀ഊ
਀ഊFrom: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 ㈀㈀ 伀挀琀 㤀㄀ 　㌀㨀㐀㜀㨀㈀㠀 䜀䴀吀ഊOrganization: University of Chicago
਀ഊ          Alternatives to Hockey Plastic
਀ഊIn the discussion of people with plastic armor, two important points
਀猀攀攀洀 琀漀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 氀愀爀最攀氀礀Ⰰ 愀氀琀栀漀甀最栀 渀漀琀 攀渀琀椀爀攀氀礀Ⰰ 渀攀最氀攀挀琀攀搀⸀ഊ
਀㄀⸀ 䤀琀 椀猀 瀀漀猀猀椀戀氀攀 琀漀 洀愀欀攀 瀀氀愀猀琀椀挀 愀爀洀漀爀 琀栀愀琀 椀猀 渀漀琀 漀戀瘀椀漀甀猀氀礀 漀甀琀 漀昀ഊperiod. One example is a Visby Coat made of leather, using plastic
਀昀漀爀 琀栀攀 ⠀漀甀琀 漀昀 猀椀最栀琀⤀ 瀀氀愀琀攀猀⸀ 䄀猀椀搀攀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 猀漀甀渀搀 眀栀攀渀 椀琀 椀猀 栀椀琀Ⰰഊand the light weight, it might as well be steel.
਀ഊOn this subject, Rhys writes "If anyone claims this (hidden plastic
਀愀爀洀漀爀⤀ 椀猀 甀渀渀攀挀挀攀猀猀愀爀礀 愀渀搀 猀栀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 愀瘀漀椀搀攀搀⸀⸀⸀ 䤀✀搀 愀猀欀 眀栀愀琀 琀栀攀椀爀ഊhelm is lined with. Straw?"
਀ഊSince you asked, my helmet is padded with horsehair. I have been
਀甀猀椀渀最 椀琀 昀漀爀 礀攀愀爀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 椀琀 眀漀爀欀猀 瘀攀爀礀 眀攀氀氀⸀ 䤀 挀漀渀昀攀猀猀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 搀攀猀椀最渀ഊis not based on any period original, but I have seen pictures, and
਀漀渀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀猀攀 礀攀愀爀猀 ⸀⸀⸀  ⸀ഊ
਀㈀⸀ 䤀琀 椀猀 瀀漀猀猀椀戀氀攀 琀漀 洀愀欀攀 氀椀最栀琀 愀爀洀漀爀 琀栀愀琀 渀漀琀 漀渀氀礀 氀漀漀欀猀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 戀甀琀ഊis period. I have an article on hardened leather armor forthcoming in
਀吀⸀䤀⸀ 眀栀椀挀栀 搀椀猀挀甀猀猀攀猀 琀栀攀 猀甀戀樀攀挀琀 椀渀 猀漀洀攀 搀攀琀愀椀氀⸀ 䤀昀 礀漀甀 愀爀攀 眀椀氀氀椀渀最ഊto accept fairly minimal legal protection (i.e. body protection
਀猀甀椀琀愀戀氀攀 昀漀爀 愀 猀眀漀爀搀 愀渀搀 猀栀椀攀氀搀 昀椀最栀琀攀爀 眀栀漀 搀漀攀猀 渀漀琀 最攀琀 椀渀 洀攀猀猀礀ഊmelees very often), you can cover your body with hardened leather
਀氀愀洀攀氀氀愀爀 昀漀爀 愀 挀漀猀琀 漀昀 愀戀漀甀琀 琀眀攀渀琀礀 搀漀氀氀愀爀猀 愀渀搀 愀 眀攀椀最栀琀 漀昀 愀戀漀甀琀ഊfive or six pounds (a little more for giants). For another two pounds
਀漀昀 眀攀椀最栀琀 愀渀搀 愀渀漀琀栀攀爀 琀攀渀 漀爀 昀椀昀琀攀攀渀 搀漀氀氀愀爀猀 礀漀甀 挀愀渀 甀猀攀 ㄀㌀ 漀甀渀挀攀ഊleather instead of 8 ounce leather in the vulnerable places, and have
਀戀漀搀礀 愀爀洀漀爀 琀栀愀琀 猀栀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 攀渀琀椀爀攀氀礀 愀搀攀焀甀愀琀攀 昀漀爀 洀漀猀琀 昀椀最栀琀攀爀猀⸀ 䤀 栀愀瘀攀ഊmade two klibanions in the former version and am currently converting
਀漀渀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀洀 椀渀琀漀 琀栀攀 氀愀琀琀攀爀⸀ഊ
਀䴀礀 瀀爀攀瘀椀漀甀猀 戀漀搀礀 愀爀洀漀爀 眀愀猀 愀 䌀栀愀爀 䄀椀渀愀 漀昀 ㄀㠀 最甀愀最攀 猀琀攀攀氀⸀ 䤀琀 漀渀氀礀ഊweighs about six pounds and provides very good protection, although
਀氀攀猀猀 挀漀瘀攀爀愀最攀 愀渀搀 洀甀挀栀 氀攀猀猀 昀氀攀砀椀戀椀氀椀琀礀 琀栀愀渀 琀栀攀 氀愀洀洀攀氀氀愀爀⸀ഊ
਀䌀愀爀椀愀搀漀挀ഊ
਀ഊcurved blades
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 㜀 䘀攀戀 㤀㈀ ഊFrom: MPFOSTER at mtus5.cts.mtu.EDU (Wulfgar Silberbar)
਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊ
਀夀攀猀Ⰰ 琀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 愀渀 愀搀瘀愀渀琀愀最攀 琀漀 猀琀爀愀椀最栀琀 戀氀愀搀攀搀 猀眀漀爀搀猀 椀渀 匀䌀䄀 挀漀洀戀愀琀⸀ 匀琀爀愀椀最栀琀ഊblades will strike quicker (the end reaches the target slightly faster than
਀愀 挀甀爀瘀攀搀 攀渀搀 眀漀甀氀搀⤀ 愀渀搀 愀爀攀 栀愀爀搀攀爀 琀漀 戀氀漀挀欀 ⠀挀甀爀瘀攀搀 戀氀愀搀攀猀 愀爀攀 琀栀攀 漀瀀瀀漀猀椀琀攀ഊof hafted weapons; an axe can strike over a shield, but a curved blade will
਀猀琀爀椀欀攀 ∀甀渀搀攀爀∀ 琀栀攀 猀栀椀攀氀搀Ⰰ 愀猀 椀琀 眀攀爀攀⤀⸀ 䤀 栀攀愀爀 琀栀愀琀 挀甀爀瘀攀搀 戀氀愀搀攀猀 琀漀 渀漀琀ഊhit as hard (they were designed to slice, not hack). Curved blades had but
਀愀 猀椀渀最氀攀 攀搀最攀⸀ഊ
਀匀漀 眀栀礀 甀猀攀 愀 挀甀爀瘀攀搀 戀氀愀搀攀㼀 䈀攀挀愀甀猀攀 椀昀 攀瘀攀爀礀戀漀搀礀 甀猀攀搀 愀 氀漀渀最Ⰰ 猀琀爀愀椀最栀琀Ⰰഊdouble-edged sword, we would be the Society for UN-Creative Anachronism.
਀䤀 愀瀀瀀氀愀甀搀 琀栀漀猀攀 眀栀漀 甀猀攀 眀攀愀瀀漀渀猀 戀愀猀攀搀 漀渀 琀栀攀椀爀 瀀攀爀猀漀渀渀愀Ⰰ 爀愀琀栀攀爀 琀栀愀渀 琀栀攀ഊbest weapons available. The same with armor (I'm trying to convince my
਀栀椀瀀猀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀礀 眀漀渀✀琀 栀甀爀琀 琀栀愀琀 洀甀挀栀 眀栀攀渀 䤀 猀眀椀琀挀栀 琀漀 ∀愀甀琀栀攀渀琀椀挀∀Ⰰ 爀愀琀栀攀爀ഊthan "protective" tassets).
਀ഊWulfgar Silberbaer
਀ഊ
਀伀瀀攀渀 䘀愀挀攀搀 匀䌀䄀 䠀攀氀洀开ഊDate: 15 Jun 92 
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 一椀氀猀 䠀愀洀洀攀爀 㰀渀栀　最⬀ 愀琀 愀渀搀爀攀眀⸀挀洀甀⸀攀搀甀㸀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca
਀伀爀最愀渀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀㨀 䌀愀爀渀攀最椀攀 䴀攀氀氀漀渀Ⰰ 倀椀琀琀猀戀甀爀最栀Ⰰ 倀䄀ഊ
਀     匀漀洀攀 琀椀洀攀 戀愀挀欀 椀琀 眀愀猀 猀愀椀搀 琀栀愀琀 攀愀爀氀礀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 挀漀甀氀搀渀✀琀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀ഊhelm and fight in it too. Here in the BMDL (East) we have a fighter who made
਀愀渀 漀瀀攀渀 昀愀挀攀搀 栀攀氀洀 搀攀猀椀最渀攀搀 琀漀 戀攀 甀猀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 愀渀 愀爀洀漀爀ⴀ洀愀猀欀 氀椀欀攀 琀栀攀ഊjapanese use.
਀ഊThe mask is blued much darker than the shiny nasaled helmet. from a distance it
਀氀漀漀欀猀 搀椀猀琀甀爀戀椀渀最氀礀 氀椀欀攀 愀渀 甀渀愀甀琀栀漀爀椀稀愀戀氀攀 栀攀氀洀⸀ 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 猀甀最最攀猀琀攀搀 琀栀愀琀 栀攀ഊglue a beard to it, but I suspect that he doesn't want to cover up his handwork.
਀ഊWhen not fighting the helm can be worn alone for a decidedly period appearance.
਀ഊNils             nh0g at andrew.cmu.edu
਀䈀䴀䐀䰀       倀椀琀琀猀戀甀爀最栀ഊ
਀ഊDate: 13 Jun 92 
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 瀀愀爀爀 愀琀 愀挀猀⸀甀挀愀氀最愀爀礀⸀挀愀 ⠀䌀栀愀爀氀攀猀 倀愀爀爀⤀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca
਀伀爀最愀渀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀㨀 吀栀攀 唀渀椀瘀攀爀猀椀琀礀 漀昀 䌀愀氀最愀爀礀Ⰰ 䄀氀戀攀爀琀愀ഊ
਀匀琀攀瀀栀攀渀⸀圀栀椀琀椀猀 愀琀 昀㐀㈀㈀㤀⸀渀㄀㈀㐀⸀稀㄀⸀昀椀搀漀渀攀琀⸀漀爀最 ⠀匀琀攀瀀栀攀渀 圀栀椀琀椀猀⤀ 眀爀椀琀攀猀㨀ഊ>>I note that you express no reservations about my preferred materials
਀㸀㸀昀漀爀 挀漀渀猀琀爀甀挀琀椀漀渀 ⠀琀漀 眀椀琀ⴀⴀ猀琀愀椀渀氀攀猀猀 猀琀攀攀氀⤀⸀  匀琀椀氀氀 ⸀ ⸀ ⸀  䤀✀搀 氀椀欀攀 琀漀     ഊ>>expand on it a bit.  Given the effort it takes to keep armor looking      
਀㸀㸀最漀漀搀 ⠀欀渀椀最栀琀猀 椀渀 爀甀猀琀礀 愀爀洀漀爀㼀  一愀栀 ⸀ ⸀ ⸀⤀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 氀愀挀欀 漀昀 洀礀 琀椀洀攀 愀渀搀    ഊ>>household labor, I consider stainless to be a non-accidental , valid      
਀㸀㸀挀漀洀瀀爀漀洀椀猀攀⸀  䄀琀 氀攀愀猀琀ⴀⴀ椀琀 猀琀椀氀氀 氀漀漀欀猀 氀椀欀攀 猀琀攀攀氀⸀  吀栀攀 愀氀琀攀爀渀愀琀椀瘀攀        ഊ>>would be a carbon steel (or, really, a wrought iron) with a good          
਀㸀㸀挀漀愀琀椀渀最 漀昀 戀氀愀挀欀 漀渀 椀琀⸀  䤀 搀漀渀✀琀 爀攀愀氀氀礀 琀栀椀渀欀 琀栀愀琀✀氀氀 眀漀爀欀 眀椀琀栀 洀愀椀氀⸀     ഊ>
਀㸀䤀 栀愀搀渀✀琀 攀砀瀀爀攀猀猀 愀渀礀 攀椀琀栀攀爀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 猀椀渀挀攀 礀漀甀 愀猀欀⸀⸀⸀ 㨀ⴀ⤀ഊ>
਀㸀匀琀愀椀渀氀攀猀猀 渀攀瘀攀爀 氀漀漀欀猀 爀椀最栀琀 琀漀 洀攀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 最甀愀氀瘀愀渀椀稀攀搀 洀攀琀愀氀Ⰰ 漀渀挀攀 琀栀攀ഊ>"new" has worn off, looks much better.  It still doesn't rust and
਀㸀渀攀攀搀猀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 椀昀 愀渀礀 甀瀀欀攀攀瀀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 搀漀攀猀渀✀琀 栀愀瘀攀 琀栀愀琀 戀爀椀最栀琀 猀琀愀椀渀氀攀猀猀ഊ>steel shine.
਀㸀ഊ>I'm not complaining about those who choose stainless, but since you
਀㸀愀猀欀攀搀 ⠀洀漀爀攀 漀爀 氀攀猀猀⤀ 眀栀愀琀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 琀栀漀甀最栀琀 愀戀漀甀琀 椀琀⸀⸀⸀ഊ
਀䔀愀猀礀 愀渀猀眀攀爀 琀漀 琀栀椀猀 漀渀攀⸀⸀⸀⸀䐀漀渀✀琀 瀀漀氀椀猀栀 琀栀攀 猀琀愀椀渀氀攀猀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀ഊfirst place;-) Make it smooth and shiny, but don't buff it
਀漀爀 最漀 愀氀氀 琀栀攀 眀愀礀 琀漀 攀洀攀爀礀 瀀愀瀀攀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 椀琀 渀攀瘀攀爀 最攀琀猀 琀栀愀琀 ഊchrome look. 
਀ഊGranted, it still has a different tone from mild steel, but so
਀搀漀 琀栀爀 搀椀昀昀攀爀椀渀最 最爀愀搀攀猀 愀渀搀 愀氀氀漀礀猀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 愀爀攀 椀渀 琀甀爀渀 ⨀瘀攀爀礀⨀ ഊdifferent from the (poor) steels of the middle ages...
਀ഊThis is one place where I like to apply the "they'd have used it
਀椀昀 琀栀攀礀 栀愀搀 椀琀∀ 爀甀氀攀⸀⸀⸀ഊ
਀䌀愀爀漀氀甀猀 䴀攀搀椀漀挀爀椀猀Ⰰ 䴀漀渀琀攀渀最愀爀搀攀 䄀渀 吀椀爀ഊ
਀ഊFrom: Joe Bethancourt_
਀吀漀㨀 䌀栀愀爀氀礀 吀栀攀 䈀愀猀琀愀爀搀ഊRe: Unobtrusive SCA-legal armor for early periods___________
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 ㄀㌀ 䨀甀渀 㤀㈀ ഊ
਀ ⴀ㴀㸀 䌀栀愀爀氀礀 琀栀攀 䈀愀猀琀愀爀搀 猀愀椀搀 琀漀 䴀椀挀栀愀攀氀 䄀⸀ 䌀栀愀渀挀攀 漀渀 　㘀ⴀ　㘀ⴀ㤀㈀  ㈀㄀㨀　㘀 㰀㴀ⴀ ഊ
਀ 䴀䄀㸀䤀搀攀愀氀氀礀Ⰰ 䤀✀搀 氀椀欀攀 琀漀 最攀琀 愀 猀攀琀 漀昀 昀甀氀氀礀 愀爀琀椀挀甀氀愀琀攀搀 欀渀攀攀 愀爀洀漀爀Ⰰ 挀漀洀瀀氀攀琀攀ഊ MA>with reverse articulation on the back of the knees, similar to Henry
਀ 䴀䄀㸀嘀䤀䤀䤀✀猀 昀漀漀琀 愀爀洀漀爀 椀渀 琀栀攀 吀漀眀攀爀⸀  吀栀攀渀Ⰰ 䤀 眀漀甀氀搀渀✀琀 渀攀攀搀 琀栀攀 眀椀渀最猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀ഊ MA>could wear them under a pair of breeches.  But I've yet to find an SCA
਀ 䴀䄀㸀愀爀洀漀爀攀爀 眀栀漀✀搀 愀琀琀攀洀瀀琀 椀琀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 䤀 挀愀渀✀琀 愀昀昀漀爀搀 琀栀攀 刀漀礀愀氀 䄀爀洀漀爀礀✀猀ഊ MA>prices! 8-)
਀ 䌀琀䈀㸀 ഊ CtB> If you can come up with a good set of drawings or photos, I MIGHT be
਀ 䌀琀䈀㸀 瀀攀爀猀甀愀搀攀搀 琀漀 琀愀欀攀 愀 挀爀愀挀欀 愀琀 椀琀⸀  䤀昀 猀漀Ⰰ 猀攀渀搀 琀漀 䐀眀愀爀瘀攀渀 䴀攀琀愀氀猀Ⰰ ㌀㌀㌀ഊ CtB> SE 39th, Oklahoma City, Okla. 73129.  If I can fabricate the items,
਀ 䌀琀䈀㸀 琀栀攀礀 眀漀渀✀琀 戀攀 挀栀攀愀瀀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 琀栀攀礀✀氀氀 昀椀琀 愀渀搀 眀漀爀欀⸀ ഊ CtB> charly the Bastard, HMFIC, Dwarven Metals
਀ഊYou both might want to talk to Sir "I don't have a Laurel, but I -do-
਀栀愀瘀攀 愀渀 伀猀挀愀爀⸀⸀∀ 䜀愀猀琀漀渀Ⰰ 漀昀 䐀椀氀氀椀最攀渀琀 䐀眀愀爀瘀攀猀 椀渀 一⸀ 䠀漀氀氀礀眀漀漀搀 䌀䄀⸀ 䠀攀 ഊbuilt a suit of plate that fits -under- his Cavalier outfit.
਀ഊ
਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊFrom: ross at chem.queensu.ca (Ross Dickson)
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 愀爀爀漀眀猀 愀渀搀 愀爀洀漀爀 ഊSummary: A reference!
਀伀爀最愀渀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀㨀 䐀攀瀀琀⸀ 漀昀 䌀栀攀洀椀猀琀爀礀Ⰰ 儀甀攀攀渀✀猀 唀渀椀瘀攀爀猀椀琀礀ഊDate: Sun, 9 May 1993 02:17:12 GMT
਀ഊGreetings, all you military historians!
਀ ഊI was today discussing this matter of arrow penetration with my good
਀昀爀椀攀渀搀 䜀漀搀眀椀渀 䠀爀漀琀栀洀甀渀搀猀猀漀渀Ⰰ 眀栀漀洀 猀漀洀攀 漀昀 礀漀甀 洀愀礀 爀攀洀攀洀戀攀爀 愀猀 䜀爀愀礀搀漀渀ഊthe Curious.  He showed me a recent (1992) article on the very subject
਀眀栀椀挀栀 愀搀搀爀攀猀猀攀猀 猀漀洀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀猀 眀栀椀挀栀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 爀愀椀猀攀搀 栀攀爀攀 漀渀ഊthe Rialto.  First, the citation:
਀ ഊPeter N. Jones, "The Metallography and Relative Effectiveness of
਀䄀爀爀漀眀栀攀愀搀猀 愀渀搀 䄀爀洀漀爀 䐀甀爀椀渀最 琀栀攀 䴀椀搀搀氀攀 䄀最攀猀⸀∀ 开䴀愀琀攀爀椀愀氀猀开䌀栀愀爀愀挀琀攀爀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀开Ⰰഊvol. 29, pp.111-117 (1992).  [A periodical published by Elsevier Science
਀倀甀戀氀椀猀栀椀渀最 䌀漀⸀Ⰰ 䤀渀挀⸀Ⰰ 㘀㔀㔀 䄀瘀攀渀甀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀猀Ⰰ 一攀眀 夀漀爀欀Ⰰ 一夀 ㄀　　㄀　崀ഊ 
਀吀漀 猀甀洀洀愀爀椀稀攀 琀栀攀 爀攀氀攀瘀愀渀琀 瀀漀椀渀琀猀Ⰰ 䨀漀渀攀猀 愀渀搀 栀椀猀 挀漀氀氀攀愀最甀攀猀 栀愀瘀攀ഊexamined surviving arrowheads (broadheads and bodkins) and armour to
਀愀猀挀攀爀琀愀椀渀 琀栀攀椀爀 挀漀渀猀琀爀甀挀琀椀漀渀 愀渀搀 栀愀爀搀渀攀猀猀⸀  䠀攀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀猀 琀栀愀琀 刀漀戀攀爀琀ഊHardy demonstrated in _Longbow_ that mail was ineffective against the
਀氀漀渀最戀漀眀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀愀琀 洀愀椀氀 眀愀猀 琀栀攀 ∀瀀爀椀渀挀椀瀀愀氀 瀀爀漀琀攀挀琀椀漀渀 眀漀爀渀 戀礀 琀栀攀 䘀爀攀渀挀栀ഊcavalry at Crecy" in 1346, but that plate armour was in wide use by the
਀琀椀洀攀 漀昀 䄀最椀渀挀漀甀爀琀 椀渀 ㄀㐀㄀㔀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 氀愀猀琀 最爀攀愀琀 瘀椀挀琀漀爀礀 漀昀 琀栀攀 氀漀渀最戀漀眀⸀ഊ
਀吀栀攀 栀愀爀搀渀攀猀猀 漀昀 瀀氀愀琀攀 愀爀洀漀甀爀 猀愀洀瀀氀攀猀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 椀洀瀀爀漀瘀攀猀 猀琀攀愀搀椀氀礀ഊthrough the Hundred Years War and into the sixteenth century, which
਀䨀漀渀攀猀 猀甀最最攀猀琀猀 挀漀渀琀爀椀戀甀琀攀搀 琀漀 琀栀攀 搀攀洀椀猀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 氀漀渀最戀漀眀⸀  䠀攀 最椀瘀攀猀ഊtables of samples  which show the Vickers Hardness Number of some
਀愀爀洀漀甀爀 瀀椀攀挀攀猀 椀渀挀爀攀愀猀椀渀最 昀爀漀洀 ㄀　　ⴀ㄀㐀　 攀愀爀氀礀 椀渀 琀栀攀 ㄀㐀　　猀 琀漀 ㈀㐀　ⴀ㈀㔀　 戀礀ഊ1550.  By contrast, the bodkins studied were typically 350 Vickers
਀䠀愀爀搀渀攀猀猀 一甀洀戀攀爀⸀ഊ
਀䘀甀爀琀栀攀爀洀漀爀攀Ⰰ 瀀氀愀琀攀 眀愀猀 搀椀猀琀爀椀戀甀琀攀搀 漀渀 琀栀攀 戀漀搀礀 攀挀漀渀漀洀椀挀愀氀氀礀Ⰰ 琀栀椀挀欀攀猀琀 ഊin the faces of helms, and thinnest in arm and leg armour.  Thicknesses
਀昀爀漀洀 ㄀⸀㈀ 洀洀 甀瀀 琀漀 㐀⸀㔀 洀洀 眀攀爀攀 昀漀甀渀搀 椀渀 愀爀洀漀甀爀 瀀椀攀挀攀猀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 氀愀琀攀 ㄀㌀　　猀⸀ഊ
਀䴀爀⸀ 䐀攀渀椀猀 䜀漀琀琀猀 昀愀戀爀椀挀愀琀攀搀 猀漀洀攀 戀漀搀欀椀渀 愀爀爀漀眀栀攀愀搀猀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 洀攀琀栀漀搀猀 愀渀搀ഊmaterials determined earlier, and these were assembled into arrows by
਀䴀爀⸀ 䨀漀栀渀 圀愀氀氀攀爀Ⰰ 眀栀漀 琀栀攀渀 猀栀漀琀 琀栀攀洀 愀琀 猀愀洀瀀氀攀猀 漀昀 眀爀漀甀最栀琀 椀爀漀渀 爀漀氀氀攀搀ഊdown to thicknesses of 3 mm, 2 mm, and 1 mm, using a 70 pound self yew
਀戀漀眀 ⠀㈀㠀 椀渀挀栀 搀爀愀眀Ⰰ ㄀　 洀攀琀攀爀 爀愀渀最攀⤀⸀  倀攀渀攀琀爀愀琀椀漀渀 眀愀猀 愀挀栀椀攀瘀攀搀 漀渀 琀栀攀 ㄀ഊmm sheet at angles of up to 20 degrees from straight on.  No useful
਀瀀攀渀攀琀爀愀琀椀漀渀 眀愀猀 愀挀栀椀攀瘀攀搀 漀渀 琀栀攀 ㈀ 漀爀 ㌀ 洀洀 瀀氀愀琀攀⸀  伀渀攀 猀琀爀愀椀最栀琀ⴀ漀渀 琀爀椀愀氀ഊon the 2 mm plate penetrated 11 mm (less than half an inch).
਀ഊJones concludes:  "These results indicate that the pattern of damage
਀椀渀昀氀椀挀琀攀搀 漀渀 愀渀 愀搀瘀愀渀挀攀 漀昀 愀爀洀漀爀攀搀 椀渀昀愀渀琀爀礀 愀琀 琀栀攀 䈀愀琀琀氀攀 漀昀 䄀最椀渀挀漀甀爀琀ഊwould have been one of many disabling wounds [esp. to the arms and
਀氀攀最猀崀 愀渀搀 昀攀眀 昀愀琀愀氀椀琀椀攀猀⸀ ⸀⸀⸀ 䤀琀 愀氀猀漀 猀栀漀眀猀 琀栀愀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀 攀愀爀氀椀攀爀 戀愀琀琀氀攀猀ഊ(Crecy in 1346 and Poitiers in 1356) the longbow would have been
਀攀砀琀爀攀洀攀氀礀 氀攀琀栀愀氀 愀渀搀 琀栀愀琀 椀渀 氀愀琀攀爀 戀愀琀琀氀攀猀Ⰰ 眀栀攀渀 愀爀洀漀爀 栀愀搀 戀攀攀渀 昀甀爀琀栀攀爀ഊimproved, it would become marginal."
਀ഊHe also points out, along the way, that "the records of the holdings of
਀愀爀爀漀眀猀 椀渀 䠀䴀 吀漀眀攀爀 漀昀 䰀漀渀搀漀渀 昀漀爀 ㄀㌀㔀㘀 椀渀搀椀挀愀琀攀 琀栀攀爀攀 眀攀爀攀 漀瘀攀爀 㐀　　Ⰰ　　　Ⰰഊand enormous stock and procurement problem," and calls this "perhaps
਀琀栀攀 洀漀猀琀 椀洀瀀爀攀猀猀椀瘀攀 昀椀渀搀椀渀最 昀爀漀洀 琀栀椀猀 椀渀瘀攀猀琀椀最愀琀椀漀渀⸀∀ഊ
਀夀漀甀爀猀 愀挀愀搀攀洀椀挀愀氀氀礀Ⰰഊ 
਀䄀渀最甀猀 䈀漀最栀愀搀愀椀爀 䴀愀挀欀椀渀琀漀猀栀Ⰰ 䜀爀攀礀昀攀氀氀猀  簀  刀漀猀猀 䴀⸀ 䐀椀挀欀猀漀渀Ⰰ 儀甀攀攀渀✀猀 唀渀椀瘀⸀ഊEaldormere, Midrealm                   |  Kingston, Ontario, Canada
਀ഊ
਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊFrom: griff at anvil.intel.com (Griff Griffith)
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 爀椀瘀攀琀猀Ⰰ 爀椀瘀攀琀猀Ⰰ 爀椀瘀攀琀猀ഊOrganization: Multimedia Software Technology Group
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 圀攀搀Ⰰ ㌀　 䨀甀渀 ㄀㤀㤀㌀ ㄀㐀㨀㐀㐀㨀㔀㄀ 䜀䴀吀ഊ
਀䜀攀琀 椀渀 琀漀甀挀栀 眀椀琀栀 刀⸀ 䨀⸀ 䰀攀愀栀礀Ⰰ 䤀渀挀⸀ 漀昀 匀愀渀 䘀爀愀渀挀椀猀挀漀 ⴀ 吀栀愀琀✀猀ഊwhere I got my rivets from... They'll ship and bill you upon
਀爀攀焀甀攀猀琀⸀ 㨀ⴀ⤀ 愀渀搀 䤀 最漀琀 愀 最漀漀搀 戀甀渀挀栀 漀昀 猀琀愀渀搀愀爀搀 ㄀⼀㠀∀ 砀 ㌀⼀㠀∀ഊmetal rivets. (shoot, price was something like $28 for about
਀㔀 氀戀猀㼀 䤀 琀栀椀渀欀㼀㼀⤀ ഊ
਀㨀刀椀挀栀愀爀搀 䔀⸀ 䜀爀椀昀昀椀琀栀Ⰰ ∀最爀椀昀昀∀ 㨀 椀一吀䔀䰀Ⰰ 䠀椀氀氀猀戀漀爀漀 伀爀攀⸀ഊ:griff at ibeam.intel.com
਀㨀匀䌀䄀℀㨀 䰀漀爀搀 䌀礀爀甀猀 䠀愀洀洀攀爀栀愀渀搀Ⰰ 䠀漀甀猀攀栀漀氀搀 漀昀 琀栀攀 䜀漀氀搀攀渀 圀漀氀昀Ⰰ ഊ:      Sargeant of Three Mountains
਀㨀      䴀愀爀猀栀愀氀氀 漀昀 䐀爀愀最漀渀猀✀ 䴀椀猀琀Ⰰ 䄀渀 吀椀爀 ഊ
਀ഊFrom: doconnor at sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: Re: rivets, rivets, rivets
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 ㌀　 䨀甀渀 㤀㌀ 　㠀㨀㐀㠀㨀㌀㄀ഊOrganization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
਀ഊgdaub at mcis.messiah.EDU writes:
਀崀    吀栀攀 愀搀瘀椀挀攀 䤀 爀攀挀攀椀瘀攀搀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀椀猀 氀椀猀琀 栀愀猀 栀攀氀瀀攀搀 洀攀 漀渀 洀礀 洀愀椀氀 愀渀搀 愀爀洀椀渀最ഊ] doublet, and I am ready for a new armoring question.  What are good to use
਀崀 昀漀爀 爀椀瘀攀琀猀㼀  䄀氀氀 䤀 挀愀渀 昀椀渀搀 椀渀 栀愀爀搀眀愀爀攀 猀琀漀爀攀猀 愀爀攀 瀀漀瀀ⴀ爀椀瘀攀琀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 䤀 愀洀ഊ] doubtful about them.  I need rivets for a variety of uses:
਀崀     ㄀⤀ 䄀琀琀愀挀栀 洀攀琀愀氀 瀀氀愀琀攀猀 琀漀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀 昀漀爀 愀 挀漀愀琀 漀昀 瀀氀愀琀攀猀 愀渀搀 最愀甀渀琀氀攀琀猀⸀ഊ]     2) Rivet metal to metal for a helm.
਀崀     ㌀⤀ 䄀琀琀愀挀栀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀 猀琀爀愀瀀猀 琀漀 洀攀琀愀氀 瀀氀愀琀攀猀 昀漀爀 愀爀洀猀 愀渀搀 氀攀最猀⸀ഊ
਀䤀渀 琀栀攀猀攀 瀀愀爀琀猀Ⰰ 洀攀琀愀氀ⴀ琀漀ⴀ洀攀琀愀氀 挀漀渀渀攀挀琀椀漀渀猀 愀爀攀 甀猀甀愀氀氀礀 搀漀渀攀 眀椀琀栀 猀漀氀椀搀ഊsoft iron rivets and burrs (washers). Leather-to-metal connections are 
਀甀猀甀愀氀氀礀 搀漀渀攀 眀椀琀栀 猀漀氀椀搀 挀漀瀀瀀攀爀 爀椀瘀攀琀猀 愀渀搀 戀甀爀爀猀⸀ഊ
਀吀愀渀搀礀 䰀攀愀琀栀攀爀 猀攀氀氀猀 挀漀瀀瀀攀爀 爀椀瘀攀琀猀 愀渀搀 戀甀爀爀猀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 椀猀 瀀爀椀挀攀礀⸀ഊWe found a better source of copper rivert at a local place that
਀搀漀攀猀 猀愀搀搀氀攀 爀攀瀀愀椀爀猀 ⠀挀愀氀氀搀 䈀漀猀琀漀渀 匀栀漀攀 匀琀漀爀攀Ⰰ 昀漀爀 猀漀洀攀 爀攀愀猀漀渀⤀⸀ഊ$9 for 1 pound ( about 100 1" rivets and 100 burrs: 1" is
਀氀漀渀最攀爀 琀栀愀渀 礀漀甀 渀攀攀搀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 眀攀 栀愀瘀攀 洀漀渀猀琀攀爀 昀氀甀猀栀ⴀ挀甀琀琀攀爀猀ഊin our horse supplies. )
਀ഊIron rivets I usually buy off a local SCA armourer.
਀ⴀⴀഊDennis O'Connor                          doconnor at sedona.intel.com
਀䤀渀琀攀氀 椀㤀㘀　⠀刀⤀ 䴀椀挀爀漀瀀爀漀挀攀猀猀漀爀 䐀椀瘀椀猀椀漀渀    匀漀氀攀氀礀 爀攀猀瀀漀渀猀椀戀氀攀 昀漀爀 眀栀愀琀 䤀 搀漀⸀ഊ
਀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 琀戀愀爀渀攀猀 愀琀 猀椀氀瘀攀爀⸀甀挀猀⸀椀渀搀椀愀渀愀⸀攀搀甀 ⠀琀栀漀洀愀猀 眀爀攀渀琀洀漀爀攀 戀愀爀渀攀猀⤀ഊSubject: Re: rivets, rivets, rivets
਀伀爀最愀渀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀㨀 䤀渀搀椀愀渀愀 唀渀椀瘀攀爀猀椀琀礀ഊDate: Wed, 30 Jun 1993 17:22:16 GMT
਀ഊFor joining leather to leather, or leather to metal, use copper rivets.
਀吀栀攀 眀椀搀攀 栀攀愀搀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 ∀眀愀猀栀攀爀∀ 漀渀 琀栀攀 戀愀挀欀 欀攀攀瀀猀 琀栀攀 爀椀瘀攀琀 昀爀漀洀 瀀甀氀氀椀渀最ഊthrough the leather when it is under stress (mostly). You will need to
਀洀愀欀攀 愀 栀漀氀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀 戀攀昀漀爀攀 礀漀甀 椀渀猀攀爀琀 礀漀甀爀 爀椀瘀攀琀 甀猀椀渀最 愀 戀攀氀琀ഊpunch or an awl. Slits in the leather tear. 
਀ऀ䤀昀 礀漀甀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 瘀攀爀礀 氀漀渀最 猀栀愀渀欀攀搀 挀漀瀀瀀攀爀 爀椀瘀攀琀 愀渀搀 礀漀甀 愀爀攀ഊparanoid about the leather pulling through, you can use a standard
਀最愀氀瘀愀渀椀稀攀搀 眀愀猀栀攀爀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀 椀⸀搀⸀ 愀猀 琀栀攀 眀愀猀栀攀爀 礀漀甀 愀爀攀 爀攀瀀氀愀挀椀渀最 愀渀搀ഊa much wider diameter. You need the longer shank since the new washer
਀眀椀氀氀 戀攀 琀栀椀挀欀攀爀⸀ഊ	For joining metal to metal, you need machinists rivets. Flat
਀栀攀愀搀攀搀 爀椀瘀攀琀猀 愀爀攀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 ⠀琀栀攀礀 眀攀爀攀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 ∀愀爀洀椀渀最 渀愀椀氀猀∀⤀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 琀栀攀ഊround headed rivets flatten if they are peened on a hard flat surface.
਀䐀伀 一伀吀 甀猀攀 愀渀 愀渀瘀椀氀 昀愀挀攀 琀漀 搀漀 琀栀椀猀⸀ 䤀琀 眀椀氀氀 氀攀愀瘀攀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 爀漀甀渀搀 搀攀渀琀猀 椀渀ഊthe anvil which will take forever to grind and polish out. Obviously you
਀眀椀氀氀 栀愀瘀攀 琀漀 搀爀椀氀氀 漀甀琀 栀漀氀攀猀 眀栀攀爀攀 礀漀甀 眀愀渀琀 琀漀 瀀氀愀挀攀 礀漀甀爀 爀椀瘀攀琀猀⸀ 䴀愀欀攀ഊthe hole just a bit wider than the shank of the rivet, since the shank
਀眀椀氀氀 攀砀瀀愀渀搀 眀栀攀渀 礀漀甀 瀀攀攀渀 琀栀攀 攀渀搀 漀瘀攀爀⸀ 䤀昀 礀漀甀 眀愀渀琀 琀栀攀 爀椀瘀攀 琀漀 瀀椀瘀漀琀 漀爀ഊslide, put a washer between the metal and peened end of the rivet and be
਀挀愀爀攀昀甀氀 瀀攀攀渀椀渀最 琀栀攀 攀渀搀⸀ഊ	To peen the rivet shank over so that it will hold, use a ball
਀瀀攀攀渀 栀愀洀洀攀爀 愀渀搀 挀愀爀攀昀甀氀氀礀 甀瀀猀攀琀 琀栀攀 爀椀瘀攀琀 眀漀爀欀椀渀最 愀爀漀甀渀搀 琀栀攀 攀搀最攀猀 漀昀ഊthe rivet so that you flatten the shank evenly. A well set rivet should
਀氀漀漀欀 樀甀猀琀 愀猀 瀀爀攀琀琀礀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 椀渀猀椀搀攀 愀猀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 漀甀琀猀椀搀攀⸀ഊ	For more on medieval armoring techniques, see 
਀ഊ-Arms and Armor of the Medieval Knight- by Miles Edge and Neil Paddock
਀ⴀ吀栀攀 䄀爀洀漀爀攀爀 愀渀搀 栀椀猀 䌀爀愀昀琀ⴀ 戀礀 䘀昀漀甀氀欀攀猀 ⠀䐀漀瘀攀爀 爀攀瀀爀椀渀琀 攀搀⸀ 椀渀 瀀爀椀渀琀⸀⤀ഊ
਀䰀漀琀栀愀爀ഊ
਀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 最爀椀昀昀 愀琀 愀渀瘀椀氀⸀椀渀琀攀氀⸀挀漀洀 ⠀䜀爀椀昀昀 䜀爀椀昀昀椀琀栀⤀ഊSubject: Re: rivets, rivets, rivets
਀伀爀最愀渀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀㨀 䴀甀氀琀椀洀攀搀椀愀 匀漀昀琀眀愀爀攀 吀攀挀栀渀漀氀漀最礀 䜀爀漀甀瀀ഊDate: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 20:52:39 GMT
਀ഊIn article <C9MAy0.AJG at cmcl2.nyu.edu>, fnklshtn at ACF1.NYU.EDU writes:
਀㸀 一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊ> From: fnklshtn at ACF1.NYU.EDU
਀㸀 匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 爀椀瘀攀琀猀Ⰰ 爀椀瘀攀琀猀Ⰰ 爀椀瘀攀琀猀ഊ> 
਀㸀 琀栀漀洀愀猀 戀愀爀渀攀猀 眀爀椀琀攀猀㨀 ∀ ㌀⼀㠀∀ ⸀⸀⸀ 爀椀瘀攀琀猀∀ഊ> 3/8" ? my G-d! talk about big!
਀㸀 圀攀 甀猀攀 ㌀⼀㄀㘀∀ 愀渀搀 䤀 琀栀漀甀最栀琀 琀栀攀礀 氀漀漀欀攀搀 愀 戀椀琀 戀甀氀欀礀⸀⸀⸀ഊ> 
਀㸀 倀攀愀挀攀℀ഊ> Nahum <FNKLSHTN at acfcluster.nyu.edu>
਀ഊ  Oh Gawd - did I say 3/8"  -- You're right, Milord, I *did*
਀洀攀愀渀 ㌀⼀㄀㘀⸀⸀⸀⸀ 㨀ⴀ⤀ ഊ				- Cyrus
਀ഊ:Richard E. Griffith, "griff" : iNTEL, Hillsboro Ore.
਀㨀最爀椀昀昀 愀琀 椀戀攀愀洀⸀椀渀琀攀氀⸀挀漀洀ഊ:SCA!: Lord Cyrus Hammerhand, Household of the Golden Wolf, 
਀㨀      匀愀爀最攀愀渀琀 漀昀 吀栀爀攀攀 䴀漀甀渀琀愀椀渀猀ഊ:      Marshall of Dragons' Mist, An Tir 
਀ഊ
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 最爀愀礀 愀琀 椀戀椀猀⸀挀猀⸀甀洀愀猀猀⸀攀搀甀 ⠀䰀礀氀攀 䘀椀琀稀圀椀氀氀椀愀洀⤀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 䰀椀最栀琀Ⰰ 䈀爀攀愀琀栀愀戀氀攀 䄀爀洀漀爀ഊDate: 5 Aug 1993 19:02:54 GMT
਀伀爀最愀渀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀㨀 䈀攀爀最攀渀琀愀氀Ⰰ 䔀愀猀琀 䬀椀渀最搀漀洀ഊKeywords: armor
਀ഊJalut (Guy Wells) asks about typical armor worn, and armor that has breathing
਀挀愀瀀愀戀椀氀椀琀礀⸀ഊ
਀伀渀 琀栀攀 昀椀爀猀琀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀Ⰰ 洀礀 愀爀洀漀爀 椀猀 愀 挀漀洀戀椀渀愀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 眀愀砀ⴀ栀愀爀搀攀渀攀搀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀Ⰰഊsteel splints, and plate steel.  The body is leather (hardened) rivetted to
਀氀攀愀琀栀攀爀 ⠀漀椀氀攀搀⤀⸀  䤀 猀眀攀愀琀 愀 氀漀琀⸀ 㬀ⴀ⤀ഊ
਀㸀䤀猀 琀栀攀爀攀 猀甀挀栀 愀 琀栀椀渀最 愀猀 ∀戀爀攀愀琀栀愀戀氀攀 瀀氀愀猀琀椀挀㼀∀ 伀爀 ∀戀爀攀愀琀栀椀渀最 猀琀攀攀氀㼀∀ഊ
਀吀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 愀渀 椀氀氀甀猀琀爀愀琀椀漀渀 椀渀 刀攀渀攀✀ 搀✀䄀渀樀漀甀✀猀 吀漀甀爀渀愀洀攀渀琀 䈀漀漀欀Ⰰ 猀栀漀眀椀渀最 愀 戀爀攀愀猀琀ഊplate that has many holes in it (probably between 1/2 and 3/4 inch diameter).
਀䄀 猀甀爀挀漀愀琀 眀愀猀 眀漀爀渀 漀瘀攀爀 琀栀椀猀 愀爀洀漀爀⸀ഊ
਀䤀 爀攀挀攀渀琀氀礀 猀愀眀 愀 昀椀最栀琀攀爀 眀攀愀爀椀渀最 猀漀洀攀琀栀椀渀最 猀椀洀椀氀愀爀Ⰰ 洀愀搀攀 漀昀 戀氀愀挀欀 瀀氀愀猀琀椀挀Ⰰഊagain covered by a surcoat (although the sides were exposed -- he wanted a new
਀琀愀戀愀爀搀⤀⸀ഊ
਀匀漀Ⰰ 䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 猀愀礀Ⰰ 礀攀猀Ⰰ 琀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 猀甀挀栀 愀 琀栀椀渀最 愀猀 ∀戀爀攀愀琀栀愀戀氀攀∀ 愀爀洀漀爀⸀ഊ
਀䰀礀氀攀 䘀椀琀稀圀椀氀氀椀愀洀ഊ-------------------------------------------------------------------------
਀䰀礀氀攀 䠀⸀ 䜀爀愀礀                       䤀渀琀攀爀渀攀琀 ⠀瀀攀爀猀漀渀愀氀⤀㨀 最爀愀礀 愀琀 挀猀⸀甀洀愀猀猀⸀攀搀甀ഊQuodata Corporation            Phone: (203) 728-6777, FAX: (203) 247-0249
਀ഊ
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 瀀愀甀氀戀 愀琀 猀愀琀甀爀渀⸀甀愀爀欀⸀攀搀甀 ⠀倀愀甀氀 䄀⸀ 䈀礀攀爀猀⤀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 䰀椀最栀琀Ⰰ 䈀爀攀愀琀栀愀戀氀攀 䄀爀洀漀爀ഊDate: Mon, 9 Aug 1993 10:27:32
਀伀爀最愀渀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀㨀 唀渀椀瘀攀爀猀椀琀礀 漀昀 䄀爀欀愀渀猀愀猀ഊSummary: sources, how-to questions
਀䬀攀礀眀漀爀搀猀㨀 愀爀洀漀爀ഊ
਀㸀䈀愀猀椀挀愀氀氀礀Ⰰ 䤀✀洀 氀漀漀欀椀渀最 昀漀爀 椀搀攀愀猀 漀渀 眀栀愀琀 琀漀 瀀甀琀 琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀 琀栀愀琀 猀琀椀氀氀ഊ>provides beyond adequate protection. I currently wear a padded gambeson,
਀㸀戀爀攀愀猀琀 愀渀搀 戀愀挀欀 瀀氀愀琀攀猀Ⰰ 洀愀渀琀氀攀 愀渀搀 瀀愀甀氀搀爀漀渀猀Ⰰ 瘀愀洀戀爀愀挀攀猀⸀⸀⸀ 匀漀 礀漀甀 最攀琀ഊ>the idea, I'm almost completely covered. OR does anyone have any
਀㸀愀爀洀漀爀攀爀猀 眀栀漀 栀愀瘀攀 栀愀搀 琀漀 搀攀愀氀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀椀猀 猀漀爀琀 漀昀 琀栀椀渀最Ⰰ 愀渀搀 愀氀爀攀愀搀礀 栀愀瘀攀ഊ>a system in place?
਀ഊ>Is there such a thing as "breathable plastic?" Or "breathing steel?"
਀㸀䨀愀氀甀琀ഊ
਀䠀攀爀攀 椀渀 猀漀甀琀栀攀爀渀 䌀愀氀漀渀琀椀爀 ⠀一圀 䄀爀欀愀渀猀愀猀⤀ 眀攀 爀攀最甀氀愀爀礀 昀愀挀攀 㤀　ⴀ㄀　　⬀ 眀攀愀琀栀攀爀⸀ ഊ(humintity 80-90%) Those of us who, like your self, require max protection 
਀眀攀愀爀 挀漀愀琀猀 漀昀 瀀氀愀琀攀猀 眀椀琀栀 漀甀琀 最愀洀戀椀猀漀渀猀⸀ ഊ
਀匀椀渀挀攀 漀甀爀 眀攀愀瀀漀渀猀 搀漀渀✀琀 栀愀瘀攀 爀攀愀氀 瀀漀欀椀攀猀 瀀氀愀琀攀猀 挀愀渀 栀愀瘀攀 ㄀✀ⴀ㈀∀ 最愀瀀猀 琀漀 氀攀琀 愀椀爀 ഊflow through the armor. (I use .5" straps to connect the plates.) The 
਀猀琀爀愀瀀瀀椀渀最 愀氀氀漀眀猀 琀栀攀 愀爀洀漀爀 琀漀 戀攀 昀氀攀砀愀戀氀攀 眀栀椀氀攀 猀琀椀氀氀 瀀爀漀琀攀挀琀椀渀最 愀最愀椀渀猀琀 琀栀攀 ഊheavest blows. I also glue 1/8th" neaprem (sp?) foam to the inside of the 
਀瀀氀愀琀攀猀 昀漀爀 瀀愀搀搀椀渀最⸀ ⠀猀漀洀攀 瀀氀愀琀攀猀 洀椀最栀琀 爀攀焀甀椀爀攀 洀漀爀攀 椀渀 礀漀甀 琀愀欀攀 洀漀爀攀 戀氀漀眀猀 ഊthere.) 
਀ഊWearing a light cotten 'fighting shirt' under a coat of plates helps with 
਀✀眀椀挀欀椀渀最✀ 漀昀 栀攀愀琀⼀猀眀攀愀琀⸀ഊ
਀䴀礀 瀀攀爀猀漀渀愀氀 愀爀洀漀爀 栀愀猀 ㄀㈀ 瀀氀愀琀攀猀⸀  吀眀漀 搀椀猀栀攀搀 瀀氀愀琀攀猀 漀渀 琀栀攀 戀攀氀氀礀⼀挀栀攀愀猀琀 ⠀猀漀爀琀 ഊof a split globebos.)  two over the shoulder next to the neck, these cover the 
਀挀漀氀氀漀爀 戀漀渀攀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 琀椀猀猀甀攀猀 漀渀 琀栀攀 琀漀瀀  漀昀 琀栀攀 猀栀漀甀氀搀攀爀⸀ ⠀ 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀猀攀 䤀 ഊsuspend trollabite paldrons and roundels to protect the shoulder joint. I 
਀搀漀渀✀琀 挀漀甀渀琀 琀栀椀猀 愀猀 瀀愀爀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 戀漀搀礀 愀爀洀漀爀 昀漀爀 瀀氀愀琀攀 挀漀甀渀琀⸀⤀  吀栀攀猀攀 挀漀渀渀攀挀琀 琀漀 ഊshoulder blade shaped shoulder blade plates have sole leather connecting them 
਀漀瘀攀爀 琀栀攀 猀瀀椀渀攀 愀渀搀 琀漀瀀攀 琀栀爀攀攀 瘀椀爀琀愀戀爀攀愀 ⠀猀瀀㼀⤀⸀  䘀爀漀洀 琀栀椀猀 椀猀 猀甀瀀攀渀搀攀搀 琀眀漀 㐀∀ ഊwide plates down the spine to the tail bone. ( the bottom plate is curved out 
਀琀漀 洀愀琀挀栀 琀栀攀 挀甀爀瘀攀 愀琀 琀栀攀 戀漀琀琀攀洀 漀昀 琀栀攀 猀瀀椀渀攀⸀ 吀栀椀猀 洀愀欀攀猀 椀琀 洀漀爀攀 挀漀洀昀礀 琀漀 ഊfight from your knees from.) Two large curved plates are connected to the 
਀猀椀搀攀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 猀瀀椀渀攀 瀀氀愀琀攀猀⸀ 吀栀攀 眀爀愀瀀 愀爀漀甀渀搀 琀漀 琀栀攀 昀爀漀渀琀 愀渀搀 愀爀攀 挀漀渀渀攀挀琀攀搀 琀漀 ഊthe front plates by strap/buckle arrangments. Two plates allow for lots of 
਀洀漀瘀攀洀攀渀琀 愀渀搀 猀琀椀氀氀 瀀爀漀琀攀挀琀猀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 猀栀漀琀 琀漀 琀栀攀 爀椀戀猀⸀ 䤀昀 礀漀甀 琀椀最栀琀攀渀 甀瀀 琀栀攀 ഊside plate the weight is kept of the shoulders.
਀ഊThis type coat of plates is called 'Pavel Plate' around here. its designed to 
਀氀攀琀 漀氀搀 昀愀琀 最甀礀猀 眀椀琀栀 愀爀琀椀昀椀挀椀愀氀 樀漀椀渀琀猀 猀甀爀瘀椀瘀攀 漀渀 琀栀攀 昀椀攀氀搀 眀椀琀栀 礀漀甀渀最 樀漀挀欀猀 ഊwith great swords. (was designed by myself and Her Majesty Arion the Herion 
਀洀愀渀礀 洀漀漀渀猀 愀最漀⸀⤀ഊ
਀䤀昀 礀漀甀 眀愀渀琀 愀 瀀愀琀琀攀爀渀 挀漀渀琀愀挀琀 洀攀 匀渀愀椀氀 䴀愀椀氀 漀爀 瀀栀漀渀攀Ⰰ 䄀昀琀攀爀 倀攀渀猀椀挀ഊ
਀䠀攀氀氀Ⰰ 䌀漀洀攀 琀漀 䜀爀椀洀昀攀氀氀猀  猀漀洀攀 眀攀攀欀 攀渀搀Ⰰ 戀甀礀 琀栀攀 猀甀瀀瀀氀椀攀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 䤀✀氀氀 洀愀欀攀 礀漀甀 愀 ഊset. (I've given 27 sets of this armor away. )
਀ഊPavel
਀䌀愀氀漀渀琀椀爀ഊ
਀倀愀甀氀 䄀⸀ 䈀礀攀爀猀ഊ220 W. Lafayette
਀䘀愀礀攀琀琀攀瘀椀氀氀攀Ⰰ 䄀刀 㜀㈀㜀　㄀ഊ(501) 443-7174
਀⠀㔀　㄀⤀ 㐀㐀㈀ⴀ㘀　㠀㘀 䘀䄀堀ഊPAULB at SATURN.UARK.EDU 
਀ഊ
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 倀伀刀吀䔀刀䜀 愀琀 最攀洀猀⸀瘀挀甀⸀䔀䐀唀 ⠀䜀爀攀最 倀漀爀琀攀爀⤀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 吀甀挀栀甀砀Ⰰ 䘀漀漀氀猀 愀渀搀 愀爀洀漀爀 挀漀漀氀椀渀最 搀攀瘀椀挀攀ഊDate: 28 Aug 1993 17:46:17 -0400
਀ഊGreetings to the Rialto:
਀ऀ䤀 搀漀 渀漀琀 欀渀漀眀 愀渀礀 漀昀 琀栀攀 吀甀挀栀甀砀 瀀攀爀猀漀渀愀氀氀礀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 愀 氀愀搀礀 眀栀漀 眀愀猀 ഊwith the group that came to the Drachenwald encampment before the field
਀戀愀琀琀氀攀 栀攀氀瀀攀搀 洀攀 最攀琀 琀栀攀 挀攀氀琀椀挀 挀栀愀爀椀漀琀 愀渀搀 䬀椀渀最 䔀氀昀椀渀 琀漀 琀栀攀 昀椀攀氀搀 椀渀 猀琀礀氀攀Ⰰഊand she and another gentle helped me get it back to the Drachnwald camp after-
਀眀愀爀搀猀Ⰰ 昀漀爀 眀栀椀挀栀 琀栀攀礀 爀攀挀攀椀瘀攀搀 洀甀挀栀 琀栀愀渀欀猀 愀渀搀 眀愀琀攀爀 ⠀漀昀昀ⴀ猀椀琀攀 眀愀琀攀爀Ⰰഊso it didn't taste like the bottom of a mine).
਀ഊ	Concerning the Fools' Parade and the annoyed lady:  you never know
਀眀栀愀琀 欀椀渀搀 漀昀 愀 搀愀礀 猀漀洀攀漀渀攀 栀愀猀 栀愀搀 戀攀昀漀爀攀 礀漀甀 最攀琀 琀漀 琀栀攀洀⸀  倀攀渀渀猀椀挀 栀愀猀 琀栀攀ഊpotential to be very stressful, especially to people in authority.  
਀䈀攀昀漀爀攀 挀漀洀瀀氀愀椀渀椀渀最 漀昀 栀攀爀 氀漀甀搀 爀攀猀瀀漀渀猀攀 琀漀 礀漀甀爀 椀渀琀攀渀搀攀搀 琀漀洀昀漀漀氀攀爀礀Ⰰ 椀琀 眀漀甀氀搀ഊbe kindest to give her some leeway for her actions.  You may have been 
਀琀栀攀 氀愀猀琀 猀琀爀愀眀 椀渀 愀 爀漀甀最栀 搀愀礀⸀ഊ
਀ऀ䌀漀漀氀渀攀猀猀 愀渀搀 愀爀洀漀爀㨀  䰀愀戀 匀愀昀琀攀礀 匀甀瀀瀀氀礀 䤀渀挀⸀Ⰰ 倀伀 䈀漀砀 ㄀㌀㘀㠀Ⰰ 䨀愀渀攀猀瘀椀氀氀攀ⰀഊWI, 53547-1368   phone: 1-800-356-0783 (6am to 9pm CT) carries thermal vests
਀眀栀椀挀栀 愀爀攀 氀椀最栀琀眀攀椀最栀琀 愀渀搀 攀愀猀椀氀礀 挀氀攀愀渀愀戀氀攀⸀  吀栀攀 瘀攀猀琀 挀漀渀琀愀椀渀猀 㘀 爀攀甀猀愀戀氀攀ഊhot or cold packs depending on the temperature desired.  It is recommended
਀琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 瘀攀猀琀 戀攀 眀漀爀渀 漀瘀攀爀 愀 氀椀最栀琀 猀栀椀爀琀⸀  䤀 搀漀渀✀琀 欀渀漀眀 椀昀 琀栀椀猀 眀漀甀氀搀 眀漀爀欀ഊfor fighters under armor, but it might be worth checking out as a way to
਀爀攀搀甀挀攀 栀攀愀琀猀琀爀漀欀攀⸀  吀栀攀 瘀攀猀琀猀 挀漀洀攀 椀渀 洀攀渀✀猀 猀椀稀攀猀 ⠀匀Ⰰ䴀Ⰰ䰀⤀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀眀漀 挀漀氀漀爀猀ഊ(blue, and blaze orange).  One blue vest costs $30.85 (orange $35.85).  
਀䤀昀 礀漀甀 戀甀礀 㘀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 瀀爀椀挀攀 搀爀漀瀀猀 琀漀 ␀㈀㜀⸀㠀　 ⠀␀㌀㈀⸀㌀　⤀⸀ 䤀琀攀洀 ⌀ 䈀氀甀攀 椀猀ഊQC-7637; Orange# is QC-20534.  
਀ഊ	Fare well,
਀ऀ䴀漀爀最愀渀 圀漀氀昀猀椀渀最攀爀 ⠀䌀愀琀栀攀爀椀渀攀 䐀攀䴀漀琀琀⤀ 戀礀 洀礀 氀漀爀搀✀猀 渀攀琀 愀挀挀攀猀猀ഊ	Barony of Caer Mear, Atlantia (Richmond, VA) 
਀ഊ
਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊFrom: mchance at nyx.cs.du.edu (Michael Chance)
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 䠀愀渀搀 瀀爀漀琀攀挀琀椀漀渀 昀漀爀 攀愀爀氀礀ഊOrganization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䴀漀渀Ⰰ ㄀㌀ 匀攀瀀 㤀㌀ ㈀㌀㨀㈀　㨀㌀㐀 䜀䴀吀ഊ
਀䬀瘀攀搀樀甀爀 昀爀愀 䴀椀欀樀愀氀℀ഊ
਀䤀 猀礀洀瀀愀琀栀椀稀攀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀漀猀攀 眀栀漀 栀愀瘀攀 攀愀爀氀礀 匀䌀䄀 挀栀愀爀愀挀琀攀爀猀 眀椀琀栀 爀攀最愀爀搀猀 琀漀ഊhand protection for combat.  Having started fighting in the Midrealm,
਀䤀 昀漀甀最栀琀 眀椀琀栀 栀漀挀欀攀礀 最氀漀瘀攀猀 昀漀爀 洀愀渀礀 礀攀愀爀猀 ⠀洀愀欀椀渀最 猀甀爀攀 琀栀愀琀 䤀 戀漀甀最栀琀ഊquality gloves, and not beat-up kid's hockey gloves with little or no
਀瀀爀漀琀攀挀琀椀瘀攀 瘀愀氀甀攀 昀爀漀洀 愀 最愀爀愀最攀 猀愀氀攀⤀⸀    圀栀椀氀攀 琀栀攀礀 瀀爀漀瘀椀搀攀搀 甀猀甀愀氀氀礀ഊadequate protection (and with a bit of modification, better than
਀愀搀攀焀甀愀琀攀 昀漀爀 挀漀洀戀愀琀 眀椀琀栀 瀀漀氀攀愀爀洀猀 愀渀搀 琀眀漀ⴀ栀愀渀搀攀搀 眀攀愀瀀漀渀猀 昀漀爀洀猀⤀Ⰰ 琀栀攀礀ഊnever _looked_ right.  And, as I got more concerned about the
਀愀瀀瀀攀愀爀愀渀挀攀 漀昀 洀礀 愀爀洀漀爀Ⰰ 琀栀攀礀 戀攀挀愀洀攀 搀漀眀渀爀椀最栀琀 攀洀戀愀爀愀猀猀椀渀最⸀ഊ
਀䄀氀氀 琀栀愀琀 攀渀搀攀搀 眀栀攀渀 䤀 洀漀瘀攀搀 琀漀 䄀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀 昀爀漀洀 䐀爀愀挀栀攀渀眀愀氀搀⸀  䄀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀渀ഊarmor standards do not permit un-modified hockey gloves, and don't
਀瀀攀爀洀椀琀 琀栀攀 琀礀瀀攀 漀昀 洀漀搀椀昀椀挀愀琀椀漀渀猀 琀栀愀琀 䤀✀搀 洀愀搀攀 琀漀 洀椀渀攀⸀  一漀琀 栀愀瘀椀渀最ഊthe time nor talent to make a pair of leather gauntlets that would
਀瀀爀漀琀攀挀琀 洀礀 栀愀渀搀猀 琀漀 洀礀 猀愀琀椀猀昀愀挀琀椀漀渀Ⰰ 䤀 戀漀甀最栀琀 愀 瀀愀椀爀 漀昀 猀琀攀攀氀ഊgauntlets.  And promptly went down to the local hardware store, bought
਀愀 挀愀渀 漀昀 刀甀猀琀漀氀攀甀洀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀 戀爀漀眀渀 猀瀀爀愀礀 瀀愀椀渀琀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 瀀愀椀渀琀攀搀 琀栀攀 琀栀椀渀最猀ഊbrown.  Made the armorer cringe, but they don't
਀氀漀漀欀 渀攀愀爀氀礀 愀猀 漀甀琀 漀昀 瀀氀愀挀攀 眀椀琀栀 愀渀 愀琀琀攀洀瀀琀 愀琀 氀愀琀攀 ㄀㄀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀ഊVarangian armor.  Heck, I've even had folks approach me with the
਀椀渀琀攀渀琀 漀昀 愀猀欀椀渀最 眀栀漀 洀愀搀攀 洀礀 ∀氀攀愀琀栀攀爀∀ 最愀甀渀琀氀攀琀猀Ⰰ 甀渀琀椀氀 琀栀攀礀 最攀琀 挀氀漀猀攀ഊenough to see that they're just painted steel.  It's not perfect, but
਀椀琀 猀甀昀昀椀挀攀猀⸀ഊ
਀䤀✀瘀攀 搀漀渀攀 椀琀 琀漀 洀礀 猀琀攀攀氀 愀爀琀椀挀甀氀愀琀攀搀 欀渀攀攀猀Ⰰ 愀猀 眀攀氀氀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 洀愀欀攀猀 䌀漀甀渀琀ഊValerius' (their maker) apprentices groan.  He just sighed.
਀ഊAdding anything over hockey gloves just looks dumb.  It's nearly
਀椀洀瀀漀猀猀椀戀氀攀 琀漀 洀愀欀攀 琀栀攀洀 氀漀漀欀 愀渀礀琀栀椀渀最 氀椀欀攀 洀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 愀爀洀漀爀⸀  䄀渀搀 琀栀攀礀ഊusually have so much padding that it makes your hands look huge.
਀吀栀攀礀 洀愀礀 戀攀 伀䬀 ⠀眀椀琀栀 栀攀氀瀀⤀ 愀猀 猀琀愀爀琀攀爀 愀爀洀漀爀 ⠀椀昀 礀漀甀 挀愀渀 昀椀渀搀 愀 最漀漀搀Ⰰഊinexpensive pair), but you need to upgrade them as soon as you can.
਀ഊMikjal Annarbjorn
਀ⴀⴀഊMichael A. Chance          St. Louis, Missouri, USA    "At play in the fields
਀圀漀爀欀㨀 洀挀㌀　㜀㠀 愀琀 猀眀㄀猀琀愀⸀猀戀挀⸀挀漀洀                             漀昀 匀琀⸀ 嘀椀搀椀挀漀渀∀ഊPlay: ab899 at freenet.hsc.colorado.edu
਀      洀挀栀愀渀挀攀 愀琀 渀礀砀⸀挀猀⸀搀甀⸀攀搀甀ഊ
਀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 琀戀愀爀渀攀猀 愀琀 猀椀氀瘀攀爀⸀甀挀猀⸀椀渀搀椀愀渀愀⸀攀搀甀 ⠀琀栀漀洀愀猀 眀爀攀渀琀洀漀爀攀 戀愀爀渀攀猀⤀ഊSubject: Re: rivets, rivets, rivets
਀伀爀最愀渀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀㨀 䤀渀搀椀愀渀愀 唀渀椀瘀攀爀猀椀琀礀ഊDate: Wed, 30 Jun 1993 17:30:26 GMT
਀ഊ	Oh yeah, another thing. The magic word is 3/8" machinists
਀爀椀瘀攀琀猀⸀ 䤀昀 礀漀甀 猀挀爀漀甀渀最攀 ⠀漀爀 瀀栀漀渀攀⤀ 攀渀漀甀最栀 礀漀甀✀氀氀 昀椀渀搀 愀 瀀氀愀挀攀 琀栀愀琀 栀愀猀ഊthem. These work fine for attaching metal to metal. Space them 1" to 2"
਀愀瀀愀爀琀Ⰰ 搀攀瀀攀渀搀椀渀最 漀渀 栀漀眀 礀漀甀 眀愀渀琀 礀漀甀爀 栀攀氀洀 琀漀 氀漀漀欀 愀渀搀 栀漀眀 猀琀爀漀渀最 礀漀甀ഊwant it to be. They should be placed at least 1/4" in from any edge so
਀琀栀攀礀 搀漀渀✀琀 琀攀愀爀 漀甀琀 甀渀搀攀爀 猀琀爀攀猀猀⸀ ഊ	Pop rivets are completely unacceptable for most purposes. They
਀愀爀攀 琀漀漀 眀攀愀欀 琀漀 甀猀攀 昀漀爀 愀爀洀漀爀椀渀最Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀攀渀搀 琀漀 琀攀愀爀 漀甀琀 漀昀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀ഊstraps.
਀ऀ䘀漀爀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀Ⰰ 礀漀甀 眀愀渀琀 ㄀⼀㐀∀ 挀漀瀀瀀攀爀 爀椀瘀攀琀猀 眀椀琀栀 眀愀猀栀攀爀猀 愀渀搀 愀 ㄀⼀㈀∀ഊto 3/4" shank. You can get them at the same place you got your machinist
਀爀椀瘀攀琀猀Ⰰ 漀爀 愀琀 琀愀挀欀 漀爀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀 猀琀漀爀攀猀⸀ 吀栀攀猀攀 眀漀爀欀 昀椀渀攀 昀漀爀 愀琀琀愀挀栀椀渀最ഊleather to leather and straps to metal. Don't skimp on the straps. You
਀眀愀渀琀 渀椀挀攀 琀栀椀挀欀Ⰰ 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀 ⴀ 戀攀氀琀 眀攀椀最栀琀 愀琀 氀攀愀猀琀⸀ 䤀渀 栀椀最栀 猀琀爀攀猀猀 愀爀攀愀猀 漀爀ഊareas where a thin strap would cut into you use a wider strap.
਀ഊ	Another good book:  
਀ഊ	The Best of the Hammer Vol. 1 -4 ed. Brian Flax. Pub. by
਀刀愀礀洀漀渀搀✀猀 儀甀椀攀琀 倀爀攀猀猀⸀ഊ
਀ഊ
਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊFrom: cav at bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 爀椀瘀攀琀猀Ⰰ 爀椀瘀攀琀猀Ⰰ 爀椀瘀攀琀猀ഊOrganization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 圀攀搀Ⰰ ㌀　 䨀甀渀 㤀㌀ ㄀㠀㨀㄀㔀㨀㌀㤀 䜀䴀吀ഊ
਀琀戀愀爀渀攀猀 愀琀 猀椀氀瘀攀爀⸀甀挀猀⸀椀渀搀椀愀渀愀⸀攀搀甀 ⠀琀栀漀洀愀猀 眀爀攀渀琀洀漀爀攀 戀愀爀渀攀猀⤀ 眀爀椀琀攀猀㨀ഊ|> 	Oh yeah, another thing. The magic word is 3/8" machinists
਀簀㸀 爀椀瘀攀琀猀⸀ 䤀昀 礀漀甀 猀挀爀漀甀渀最攀 ⠀漀爀 瀀栀漀渀攀⤀ 攀渀漀甀最栀 礀漀甀✀氀氀 昀椀渀搀 愀 瀀氀愀挀攀 琀栀愀琀 栀愀猀ഊ
਀唀洀洀洀⸀⸀⸀搀漀 琀栀攀礀 洀愀欀攀 愀爀洀漀甀爀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀氀礀 漀甀琀 礀漀甀爀 眀愀礀㼀  䄀爀漀甀渀搀 栀攀爀攀Ⰰ 琀栀攀ഊstandard rivet has a 1/8" diameter shaft and a length of 3/8".  Some people
਀甀猀攀 ㌀⼀㄀㘀∀ 搀椀愀洀攀琀攀爀 爀椀瘀攀琀猀 昀漀爀 栀攀氀洀猀⸀  吀栀攀 氀愀爀最攀猀琀 爀椀瘀攀琀 䤀 攀瘀攀爀 甀猀攀 椀猀ഊ1/4" diameter for knee articulations.
਀ഊ|> them. These work fine for attaching metal to metal. Space them 1" to 2"
਀簀㸀 愀瀀愀爀琀Ⰰ 搀攀瀀攀渀搀椀渀最 漀渀 栀漀眀 礀漀甀 眀愀渀琀 礀漀甀爀 栀攀氀洀 琀漀 氀漀漀欀 愀渀搀 栀漀眀 猀琀爀漀渀最 礀漀甀ഊ|> want it to be. They should be placed at least 1/4" in from any edge so
਀簀㸀 琀栀攀礀 搀漀渀✀琀 琀攀愀爀 漀甀琀 甀渀搀攀爀 猀琀爀攀猀猀⸀ ഊ|> 	Pop rivets are completely unacceptable for most purposes. They
਀簀㸀 愀爀攀 琀漀漀 眀攀愀欀 琀漀 甀猀攀 昀漀爀 愀爀洀漀爀椀渀最Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀攀渀搀 琀漀 琀攀愀爀 漀甀琀 漀昀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀ഊ|> straps.
਀簀㸀 ऀ䘀漀爀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀Ⰰ 礀漀甀 眀愀渀琀 ㄀⼀㐀∀ 挀漀瀀瀀攀爀 爀椀瘀攀琀猀 眀椀琀栀 眀愀猀栀攀爀猀 愀渀搀 愀 ㄀⼀㈀∀ഊ|> to 3/4" shank. You can get them at the same place you got your machinist
਀ഊDo they make 1/4" diameter saddlers rivets?
਀䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 礀漀甀 洀攀愀渀 ㄀⼀㠀∀ 搀椀愀洀攀琀攀爀⸀  䄀渀搀 琀栀攀 ✀眀愀猀栀攀爀猀✀ 愀爀攀 甀猀甀愀氀氀礀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 ✀戀甀爀爀猀✀ഊin this context.  I think the difference is that a washer is intended to
਀昀椀琀 氀漀漀猀攀氀礀 漀渀 愀 戀漀氀琀 猀栀愀昀琀Ⰰ 眀栀椀氀攀 愀 戀甀爀爀 昀椀琀猀 猀渀甀最最氀礀 漀渀 琀栀攀 爀椀瘀攀琀 猀栀愀昀琀⸀ഊSo if you ask for 1/8" washers you will get something different than if you
਀愀猀欀 昀漀爀 ㄀⼀㠀∀ 戀甀爀爀猀⸀  䈀甀琀 琀栀攀渀Ⰰ 礀漀甀 挀愀渀 愀氀眀愀礀猀 洀愀欀攀 礀漀甀爀 漀眀渀 昀爀漀洀 猀挀爀愀瀀 挀漀瀀瀀攀爀ഊor brass.
਀ഊ|> rivets, or at tack or leather stores. These work fine for attaching
਀簀㸀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀 琀漀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀 愀渀搀 猀琀爀愀瀀猀 琀漀 洀攀琀愀氀⸀ 䐀漀渀✀琀 猀欀椀洀瀀 漀渀 琀栀攀 猀琀爀愀瀀猀⸀ 夀漀甀ഊ|> want nice thick, leather - belt weight at least. In high stress areas or
਀簀㸀 愀爀攀愀猀 眀栀攀爀攀 愀 琀栀椀渀 猀琀爀愀瀀 眀漀甀氀搀 挀甀琀 椀渀琀漀 礀漀甀 甀猀攀 愀 眀椀搀攀爀 猀琀爀愀瀀⸀ഊ|> 
਀簀㸀 ऀ䄀渀漀琀栀攀爀 最漀漀搀 戀漀漀欀㨀  ഊ|> 
਀簀㸀 ऀ吀栀攀 䈀攀猀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 䠀愀洀洀攀爀 嘀漀氀⸀ ㄀ ⴀ㐀 攀搀⸀ 䈀爀椀愀渀 䘀氀愀砀⸀ 倀甀戀⸀ 戀礀ഊ|> Raymond's Quiet Press.
਀ഊHere's another tip!  Rather than using standard drill bits, ask for 'stubbs'.
਀吀栀攀猀攀 戀椀琀猀 愀爀攀 猀栀漀爀琀 ⠀搀漀渀✀琀 渀攀攀搀 琀漀 戀攀 氀漀渀最⤀ 猀漀 琀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 栀愀爀搀攀爀 琀漀 戀爀攀愀欀⸀ഊThe point is also designed to be self centering, so you don't need to mark
਀礀漀甀爀 栀漀氀攀 眀椀琀栀 愀 瀀甀渀挀栀⸀  匀漀洀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀洀 愀爀攀 搀漀甀戀氀攀 攀渀搀攀搀 眀栀椀挀栀 最椀瘀攀猀 礀漀甀 洀漀爀攀ഊbang for the buck, but I've been told they are lower quality than the single
਀攀渀搀攀搀 漀渀攀猀⸀  ഊ 
਀䌀栀攀攀爀猀ⰀഊBalderik
਀ഊ
਀ഊFrom: harald at matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Harold Kraus Jr)
਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: Re: Metal in period
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 ㄀㠀 伀挀琀 ㄀㤀㤀㌀ ㄀㘀㨀　㜀㨀㐀㈀ ⴀ　㔀　　ഊOrganization: Kansas State University
਀ഊAhoy!
਀ഊFolks write:
਀㸀㸀 㸀 ⸀⸀⸀匀䤀 甀渀椀琀猀 瀀氀攀愀猀攀 ⸀⸀⸀ഊ>> 
਀㸀㸀 圀攀氀氀Ⰰ 䤀 戀攀氀椀攀瘀攀 栀攀 瀀漀猀琀攀搀 椀渀挀栀 琀栀椀挀欀渀攀猀猀攀猀 愀猀 琀栀攀 瀀爀椀渀挀椀瀀愀氀⸀⸀⸀ഊ>> ...In general, however, U.S. gauges of thickness are reciprocals of
਀㸀㸀 昀爀愀挀琀椀漀渀猀 漀昀 椀渀挀栀攀猀⸀  吀栀愀琀 椀猀Ⰰ 砀 最愀甀最攀 㴀 ㄀⼀砀 椀渀挀栀攀猀 㴀 ㈀㔀⼀砀 洀洀⸀ഊ>> 
਀㸀㸀 吀栀甀猀Ⰰ 爀漀甀最栀氀礀㨀ഊ>     !!!^^^^^^^!!!
਀㸀嬀挀漀渀瘀攀爀猀椀漀渀 搀攀氀攀琀攀搀崀ഊ
਀㸀吀栀椀猀 椀猀 瘀攀爀礀 爀漀甀最栀氀礀 椀渀搀攀攀搀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 愀挀挀甀爀愀琀攀 琀漀 愀 昀愀挀琀漀爀 ㈀ 漀爀 猀漀⸀ഊ>Gauges for plate are not gauges for wire are not gauges for pipe
਀㸀攀琀挀⸀ 攀琀挀⸀ഊ
਀䄀渀搀 愀 昀愀挀琀漀爀 漀昀 ㈀ 眀漀甀氀搀 猀攀琀 ㄀㘀最愀⸀ 椀渀 琀栀攀 爀愀渀最攀 漀昀 ㄀㄀ 最愀⸀ഊ
਀一漀 搀椀爀攀挀琀 爀攀氀愀琀椀漀渀猀栀椀瀀 戀攀琀眀攀攀渀 最愀甀最攀 渀甀洀戀攀爀猀 愀渀搀 琀栀椀挀欀渀攀猀猀 眀愀猀 攀瘀攀爀 ഊintended, as far as I can tell.  I presume that much confusion over the 
਀爀攀氀愀琀椀漀渀猀栀椀瀀 猀琀攀洀猀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 愀瀀瀀愀爀攀渀琀 挀漀椀渀挀椀搀攀渀挀攀 琀栀愀琀 昀漀爀 ㄀㘀最愀⸀Ⰰഊ16ga. = .0625in = 1/16in = 1.59mm.  The relationship holds only for
਀琀栀攀 䈀椀爀洀椀渀最栀愀洀 䜀愀最攀Ⰰ 愀猀 昀愀爀 愀猀 䤀 欀渀漀眀Ⰰ 渀漀琀 渀攀挀攀猀猀愀爀椀氀礀 琀爀甀攀 昀漀爀 漀琀栀攀爀 ഊstandards and other metals.  
਀ഊHistoricly, US sheet metal gauges are a *weight* per square foot standard 
਀愀渀搀 眀攀爀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀氀氀礀 戀愀猀攀搀 漀渀 愀 搀攀渀猀椀琀礀 漀昀 㐀㠀　 瀀漀甀渀搀猀⼀挀甀⸀ 昀琀⸀ 昀漀爀 眀爀漀甀最栀琀ഊiron, not steel which has a different density. 
਀ഊ For gauges 3 to 14, oz/sf = 190 - 10*gauge number
਀           ㄀㐀 琀漀 ㄀㘀Ⰰ 漀稀⼀猀昀 㴀 ㄀㈀　 ⴀ  㔀⨀最愀甀最攀 渀甀洀戀攀爀 ഊ           16 to 20, oz/sf = 104 -  5*guage number
਀ഊThe Manufactures' Standard Gage for Sheet Steel is based on a weight of 
਀㐀㄀⸀㠀㈀ 瀀漀甀渀搀猀 昀漀爀 愀 ㄀ 椀渀挀栀 琀栀椀挀欀Ⰰ ㄀ 猀焀甀愀爀攀 昀漀漀琀 瀀椀攀挀攀 漀昀 猀琀攀攀氀⸀  吀栀椀猀 ഊvalue is an adjustment for the variation of thickness from the edge
਀琀漀 琀栀攀 洀椀搀搀氀攀 漀昀 爀漀氀氀攀搀 猀栀攀攀琀 猀琀攀攀氀⸀  䤀 甀渀搀攀爀猀琀愀渀搀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 戀愀猀椀挀 瘀愀氀甀攀ഊfor steel density is actually 40.8 pounds per 1x12x12 inch steel.   
਀ഊSome Values:    Gauge   Inches    mm.
਀                 ㄀　     ⸀㄀㌀㐀㔀    ㌀⸀㐀㄀㘀ഊ                 11     .1196    3.039
਀                 ㄀㈀     ⸀㄀　㐀㘀    ㈀⸀㘀㔀㜀ഊ                 13     .0897    2.278
਀                 ㄀㐀     ⸀　㜀㐀㜀    ㄀⸀㠀㤀㜀ഊ                 15     .0673    1.709
਀                 ㄀㘀     ⸀　㔀㤀㠀    ㄀⸀㔀㄀㤀  ⠀渀漀琀 攀砀愀挀琀氀礀 ㄀⼀㄀㘀 椀渀挀栀⤀ ഊ                 17     .0538    1.367
਀                 ㄀㠀     ⸀　㐀㜀㠀    ㄀⸀㈀㄀㐀ഊ                 19     .0418    1.062
਀                 ㈀　     ⸀　㌀㔀㤀     ⸀㤀㄀㈀ഊ
਀䠀漀眀攀瘀攀爀Ⰰ 䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 愀渀礀 猀甀挀栀 椀渀搀甀猀琀爀椀愀氀 猀琀愀渀搀愀爀搀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀 椀猀 伀伀倀⸀  㨀⤀ഊSo back to a more SCA relevant discussion. :)   
਀ഊ
਀圀栀愀琀 漀昀 琀栀漀猀攀 眀栀漀 眀椀猀栀 琀漀 瀀漀爀琀爀愀礀 氀椀最栀琀氀礀 漀爀 甀渀愀爀洀漀爀攀搀 瀀攀爀猀漀渀渀愀猀㼀ഊPlastic is fine for hiding under fighting garb (or woad wet-suits).
਀ഊ
਀䤀 甀猀攀 愀氀甀洀椀渀甀洀 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 ㄀⤀ 椀琀猀 椀猀 愀 洀攀琀愀氀 愀渀搀 渀漀琀 漀戀瘀椀漀甀猀氀礀 渀漀渀ⴀ猀琀攀攀氀ഊ(pollished) at a distance so it does not need to be covered with garb
਀㈀⤀ 椀琀 搀漀攀猀 渀漀琀 爀甀猀琀 猀漀 椀琀 愀氀眀愀礀猀 最椀瘀攀猀 琀栀愀琀 挀氀攀愀渀ⴀ氀椀瘀椀渀最 椀洀洀愀最攀 ㌀⤀ 䤀䴀伀Ⰰഊmany period pieces (16-18ga) would stand the service seen from weekly
਀瀀爀愀挀琀椀挀攀猀 愀渀搀 琀漀甀爀渀攀礀猀  㐀⤀ 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 渀漀 渀愀琀甀愀氀 瀀愀搀搀椀渀最 猀漀 䤀 氀椀欀攀 爀椀最椀搀ഊplate (hardened leather doesn't cut it for me  5) Aluminum allows me
਀琀漀 栀愀瘀攀 琀栀椀挀欀攀爀ⴀ 愀渀搀 猀琀爀漀渀最攀爀ⴀ琀栀愀渀ⴀ瀀攀爀椀漀搀 瀀氀愀琀攀 琀漀 栀攀氀瀀 洀攀 猀甀爀椀瘀攀Ⰰ ഊwithout undue dammage and discomfort, many times the number of pactices,
਀眀愀爀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀漀甀爀渀攀礀猀 琀栀攀 琀礀瀀椀挀愀氀 洀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 渀漀戀氀攀 攀砀瀀攀爀椀攀渀挀攀搀  㘀⤀ 䤀 搀漀渀✀琀 ഊown any slaves so I'd have to hammer out dents and scour off rust 
਀洀礀猀攀氀昀  ⠀愀渀搀 椀昀 䤀 搀椀搀 漀眀渀 猀氀愀瘀攀猀Ⰰ 䤀✀搀 猀琀椀氀氀 栀愀瘀攀 琀漀 昀攀攀搀Ⰰ 挀氀漀琀栀Ⰰ 愀渀搀ഊhouse them, Ah-hah, so thats where SCA squires come in!).
਀ഊMuch the same argument can be made for the use of plastic save for
਀椀琀猀 戀氀愀琀愀渀琀氀礀 洀漀搀攀爀渀 愀瀀瀀攀爀愀渀挀攀 眀栀攀渀 甀渀挀漀瘀攀爀攀搀⸀ഊ
਀䌀氀漀瘀椀猀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ
਀㸀䤀 搀漀渀✀琀 欀渀漀眀 栀漀眀 琀栀椀渀最猀 爀攀愀氀氀礀 眀漀爀欀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䤀 搀漀 欀渀漀眀 琀栀愀琀 昀漀爀 椀渀猀琀愀渀挀攀ഊ>plate is sold as 16 gauge but is rolled down to thinner dimensions.
਀ഊThinner than 1/16 inch, yes;  thinner than .0598, not really.
਀ഊ>At least there is a very rigid definition of the meter, and thus the
਀㸀洀椀氀氀椀洀攀琀攀爀 愀猀 眀攀氀氀⸀ ഊ
਀㄀㘀最愀 琀漀氀攀爀愀渀挀攀 椀猀 愀戀漀甀琀 ⬀⼀ⴀ ⸀　　㜀椀渀 ⠀⬀⼀ⴀ ⸀㄀㜀㠀洀洀⤀ഊThere is also a rigid definition for an inch.
਀ഊ>Plate dimensions varied depending on time and use. Extremes that I
਀㸀栀愀瘀攀 猀攀攀渀 栀攀爀攀 椀渀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀 愀爀攀 猀攀瘀攀爀愀氀 挀洀 ⠀漀瘀攀爀 漀渀攀 椀渀挀栀⤀ 琀栀椀挀欀 樀漀甀猀琀椀渀最ഊ>chest plates and under 1 mm (1/25th inch) for lames on 16th century
਀㸀攀焀甀攀猀琀爀椀愀渀 氀攀最 愀爀洀漀甀爀⸀ഊ
਀㄀洀洀 㴀 ㄀㤀ⴀ㈀　最愀⸀  䤀䴀伀Ⰰ ㄀㠀最愀 猀琀攀攀氀Ⰰ 眀栀椀氀攀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 愀渀搀 猀愀昀攀 ⠀椀渀 最漀漀搀 挀漀渀搀椀琀椀漀渀⤀Ⰰഊwill not stand up to SCA use unless you rarely fight or rarely get hit.
਀䄀渀礀琀栀椀渀最 氀攀猀猀 椀猀 渀漀琀 洀甀挀栀 戀攀琀琀攀爀 琀栀愀渀 琀椀渀昀漀椀氀⸀ഊ
਀倀漀椀渀琀 琀漀 瀀漀渀搀攀爀⸀⸀⸀⸀圀攀 匀䌀䄀 昀椀最栀琀攀爀猀 愀爀攀 琀漀 愀挀琀 漀甀琀 愀氀氀 戀氀漀眀猀 愀猀 琀栀漀甀最栀ഊwe are wearing armour that protects no more than chainmail regaurdless
਀漀昀 瀀攀爀猀漀渀渀愀 漀爀 愀挀琀甀愀氀 攀焀甀椀瀀洀攀渀琀⸀  匀栀漀甀氀搀 眀攀 愀氀猀漀 愀挀琀 漀甀琀 愀氀氀 昀椀最栀琀椀渀最 ഊas though our armour weighs as much as chainmail (60-70 lbs of armor
਀昀漀爀 ㄀　ⴀ㄀㔀 瀀漀甀渀搀猀 眀漀爀琀栀 漀昀 瀀爀漀琀攀挀琀椀漀渀⤀ 爀攀最愀甀爀搀氀攀猀猀 漀昀 瀀攀爀猀漀渀渀愀 漀爀ഊactual equipment?  I think not.
਀ഊHarald Isenross, Spinning Winds, Calontir, harald at matt.ksu.ksu.edu  
਀ഊ
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 洀椀欀攀 愀琀 愀氀漀礀猀椀甀猀⸀攀焀甀椀渀漀砀⸀最攀渀⸀渀稀 ⠀䴀椀欀攀 䌀愀洀瀀戀攀氀氀⤀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 䴀漀爀攀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 愀爀洀漀爀 ഊDate: Sat, 09 Oct 93 22:06:36 GMT
਀ഊv081lu33 at ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu writes:
਀  㸀         倀攀爀猀漀渀愀氀氀礀Ⰰ 䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 愀爀洀漀爀ⴀ攀焀甀愀氀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀 椀猀 愀 最漀漀搀 椀搀攀愀⸀ 倀氀愀猀琀椀挀ഊ  > might be discouraged by making it count as "no armor" if concealed, or
਀  㸀 洀愀欀椀渀最 琀栀攀 瀀攀爀猀漀渀 栀愀瘀攀 琀漀 猀琀愀渀搀 琀栀攀爀攀 氀漀漀欀椀渀最 氀椀欀攀 愀 瀀椀挀欀氀攀 戀愀爀爀攀氀⸀⸀⸀ഊ
਀䴀礀 瀀攀爀猀漀渀愀氀 椀猀 ㄀㄀琀栀 䌀攀渀琀甀爀礀 䤀挀攀氀愀渀搀椀挀 䴀攀爀挀攀渀愀爀礀 ⴀ 眀栀漀 眀漀甀氀搀 栀愀瘀攀 眀漀爀渀 ഊno armour on his legs, or possibly arms.  I conceal plastic legs under 
਀戀愀最最礀 琀爀漀甀猀攀爀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 琀漀氀搀 椀琀 氀漀漀欀猀 瘀攀爀礀 渀椀挀攀⸀  䤀 挀甀爀爀攀渀琀氀礀 ഊwear no body armour bar a very thick gambeson, and hope to complete a 
਀猀攀琀 漀昀 戀漀椀氀攀搀⼀眀愀砀攀搀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀 䰀愀洀攀氀氀愀爀 猀漀洀攀 搀愀礀⸀  䘀漀爀攀愀爀洀 瀀爀漀琀攀挀琀椀漀渀 ഊconsists of splint steel over leather.
਀ഊSince the Society has adopted "light chain over leather" with an open 
਀昀愀挀攀搀 栀攀氀洀Ⰰ 愀猀 戀攀椀渀最 琀栀攀 搀攀昀愀挀琀漀 愀爀洀漀甀爀 昀漀爀 愀氀氀Ⰰ 眀栀礀 猀栀漀甀氀搀 愀氀氀漀眀愀渀挀攀 ഊbe made for anything else?
਀ഊYour suggestion would heavily influence fighters to adopt armour not 
਀眀漀爀渀 戀礀 琀栀攀椀爀 瀀攀爀猀漀渀愀Ⰰ 漀爀 愀 瀀攀爀猀漀渀愀 眀栀漀 眀漀甀氀搀 栀愀瘀攀 眀漀爀渀 猀甀挀栀 愀爀洀漀甀爀⸀  ഊMuch of the diversity and interest in armour making would be removed 
਀⠀昀漀爀 洀攀⤀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 昀椀最栀琀椀渀最 眀漀甀氀搀 戀攀挀漀洀攀 樀甀猀琀 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 洀漀爀攀 戀漀爀椀渀最⸀ഊ
਀吀栀漀爀昀礀爀搀 䠀愀欀漀渀猀漀渀Ⰰ 匀栀椀爀攀 漀昀 匀漀甀琀栀爀漀渀 䜀愀愀爀搀Ⰰ 䌀愀椀搀ഊMike Campbell, Christchurch, New Zealand
਀洀椀欀攀 愀琀 愀氀漀礀猀椀甀猀⸀攀焀甀椀渀漀砀⸀最攀渀⸀渀稀 ഊ
਀ഊFrom: AGrunow at vitgwms1.telecom.telecom012.telememo.AU (Grunow, Aroleon)
਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: RE: Spun-top helmet noise problem
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 ㈀㔀 伀挀琀 ㄀㤀㤀㌀ ㈀　㨀㌀㔀㨀㈀㐀 ⴀ　㐀　　ഊ
਀㸀 栀漀眀 琀漀 爀攀搀甀挀攀 琀栀攀 渀漀椀猀攀 氀攀瘀攀氀 椀渀猀椀搀攀 挀攀爀琀愀椀渀 栀攀氀洀攀琀猀Ⰰ 攀猀瀀攀挀椀愀氀氀礀ഊ> spun-tops
਀ഊIf you have not yet made the helmet, and are rivetting the bottom/back
਀漀昀 琀栀攀 栀攀氀洀攀琀 琀漀 琀栀攀 猀瀀甀渀ⴀ搀漀洀攀 琀漀瀀Ⰰ 瀀甀琀 愀 猀琀爀椀瀀 漀昀 氀椀最栀琀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀ഊbetween the two plates when rivetting. If the helmet is already made,
਀最氀甀攀 猀琀爀椀瀀猀 漀昀 氀椀最栀琀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀 愀戀漀甀琀 愀渀 椀渀挀栀 眀椀搀攀 琀漀 琀栀攀 椀渀猀椀搀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀ഊdome, and glue the padding over that. You could put a helmet roll on
਀琀栀攀 漀甀琀猀椀搀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 栀攀氀洀攀琀Ⰰ 愀渀搀⼀漀爀 栀愀渀最 挀栀愀椀渀洀愀椀氀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 戀漀琀琀漀洀 漀昀ഊthe helmet.
਀ഊ> I don't have any idea what a spun-top helm is
਀ഊIt is a turned bowl of metal, usually 14 gauge to start with, and
਀戀攀挀漀洀攀猀 ㄀㘀 最愀甀最攀 愀昀琀攀爀 猀瀀椀渀渀椀渀最⸀ 䤀 搀漀渀✀琀 欀渀漀眀 栀漀眀 琀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 洀愀搀攀Ⰰ 戀甀琀ഊthey look like a salad bowl and have marks in them from turning. You
਀甀猀攀 琀栀攀 搀漀洀攀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 琀漀瀀 漀昀 琀栀攀 栀攀氀洀 愀渀搀 愀搀搀 愀 戀愀挀欀瀀氀愀琀攀 愀渀搀 昀愀挀攀瀀氀愀琀攀Ⰰഊresulting in a round-top helm.
਀ഊHope this helps.
਀ഊ ----------Sven the Stormdriven (Aroleon Grunow)---------
਀䬀渀椀最栀琀 䴀愀爀猀栀愀氀 漀昀 琀栀攀 倀爀椀渀挀椀瀀愀氀椀琀礀 漀昀 䰀漀挀栀愀挀 ⠀䄀甀猀琀爀愀氀椀愀⤀ഊin the Kingdom of the West
਀     䄀䜀爀甀渀漀眀 愀琀 嘀䤀吀䜀圀䴀匀㄀⸀吀䔀䰀䔀䌀伀䴀⸀琀攀氀攀挀漀洀　㄀㈀⸀琀攀氀攀洀攀洀漀⸀愀甀ഊ --------------------------------------------------------
਀ഊ
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 洀樀漀栀渀猀漀㜀 愀琀 漀猀昀㄀⸀最洀甀⸀䔀䐀唀 ⠀䴀椀挀栀愀攀氀 倀 䨀漀栀渀猀漀渀⤀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 䄀爀洀漀爀 儀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀 漀渀 倀攀爀椀漀搀ഊDate: 16 Mar 1995 22:07:34 -0500
਀ഊTo have all o your basic armor questions answered, check your local 
਀氀椀戀爀愀爀礀 漀爀 戀漀漀欀猀琀漀爀攀 昀漀爀 愀 戀漀漀欀 攀渀琀椀琀氀攀搀 吀栀攀 䄀爀洀漀甀爀攀爀 愀渀搀 䠀椀猀 䌀爀愀昀琀Ⰰ 戀礀 ഊFfoulke.  It gives a good over view of armor history, and production 
਀琀攀挀栀渀椀焀甀攀猀⸀  䤀琀 眀愀猀 琀栀攀 昀椀爀猀琀 戀漀漀欀 琀栀愀琀 洀礀 琀攀愀挀栀攀爀 栀愀搀 洀攀 爀攀愀搀 愀渀搀 䤀 ഊstill use it as a reference, because I'm still learning.  To answer your 
਀焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀Ⰰ 礀攀猀Ⰰ 瀀氀愀琀攀 愀渀搀 洀愀椀氀 眀攀爀攀 眀漀爀渀 琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀Ⰰ 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 戀攀最椀渀渀椀渀最 漀昀 ഊthe fourteenth century onward through the fifteenth century.  Visored 
਀栀攀氀洀猀 愀氀猀漀 猀琀愀爀琀攀搀 愀瀀瀀攀愀爀椀渀最 椀渀 琀栀攀 昀漀甀爀琀攀攀渀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 愀搀攀渀琀 漀昀 ഊthe bascnet with the hound skull face plate.  This progressed into 
਀猀攀瘀攀爀愀氀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀 琀礀瀀攀猀 漀昀 瘀椀猀漀爀攀搀 栀攀氀洀猀⸀  吀栀攀 猀愀氀氀攀琀 愀渀搀 愀爀洀攀琀 戀攀挀愀洀攀 ഊpopular during the late fourteenth and early fifteenth centuries, but 
਀洀愀椀渀氀礀 椀渀 琀栀攀 昀椀昀琀攀攀渀琀栀⸀  吀栀攀 愀爀洀攀琀 瀀爀漀最爀攀猀猀攀搀 椀渀琀漀 琀栀攀 挀氀漀猀攀 栀攀氀洀⸀  ഊWell, I could go on and on about armor.  If you have any other questions, 
਀氀攀琀 洀攀 欀渀漀眀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 䤀✀氀氀 愀渀猀眀攀爀 琀栀攀洀 愀猀 戀攀猀琀 愀猀 䤀 挀愀渀⸀ഊ
਀䰀漀爀搀 䤀渀最攀氀爀椀 䬀攀氀瘀椀渀ഊArgent Company
਀ഊ
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 挀愀爀愀搀漀挀 愀琀 攀渀攀琀⸀渀攀琀 ⠀䨀漀栀渀 䜀爀漀猀攀挀氀漀猀攀⤀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 䄀爀洀漀爀 儀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀 漀渀 倀攀爀椀漀搀ഊDate: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:47:49 -0700
਀ഊmjohnso7 at osf1.gmu.EDU (Michael P Johnson) wrote:
਀㸀吀漀 栀愀瘀攀 愀氀氀 漀 礀漀甀爀 戀愀猀椀挀 愀爀洀漀爀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀猀 愀渀猀眀攀爀攀搀Ⰰ 挀栀攀挀欀 礀漀甀爀 氀漀挀愀氀 ഊ>library or bookstore for a book entitled The Armourer and His Craft, by 
਀㸀䘀昀漀甀氀欀攀⸀  䤀琀 最椀瘀攀猀 愀 最漀漀搀 漀瘀攀爀 瘀椀攀眀 漀昀 愀爀洀漀爀 栀椀猀琀漀爀礀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 瀀爀漀搀甀挀琀椀漀渀 ഊ>techniques.  It was the first book that my teacher had me read and I 
਀㸀猀琀椀氀氀 甀猀攀 椀琀 愀猀 愀 爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀Ⰰ 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 䤀✀洀 猀琀椀氀氀 氀攀愀爀渀椀渀最⸀  吀漀 愀渀猀眀攀爀 礀漀甀爀 ഊ>question, yes, plate and mail were worn together, from the beginning of 
਀㸀琀栀攀 昀漀甀爀琀攀攀渀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀 漀渀眀愀爀搀 琀栀爀漀甀最栀 琀栀攀 昀椀昀琀攀攀渀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀⸀  嘀椀猀漀爀攀搀 ഊ>helms also started appearing in the fourteenth century with the adent of 
਀㸀琀栀攀 戀愀猀挀渀攀琀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 栀漀甀渀搀 猀欀甀氀氀 昀愀挀攀 瀀氀愀琀攀⸀  吀栀椀猀 瀀爀漀最爀攀猀猀攀搀 椀渀琀漀 ഊ>several different types of visored helms.  The sallet and armet became 
਀㸀瀀漀瀀甀氀愀爀 搀甀爀椀渀最 琀栀攀 氀愀琀攀 昀漀甀爀琀攀攀渀琀栀 愀渀搀 攀愀爀氀礀 昀椀昀琀攀攀渀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 ഊ>mainly in the fifteenth.  The armet progressed into the close helm.  
਀㸀圀攀氀氀Ⰰ 䤀 挀漀甀氀搀 最漀 漀渀 愀渀搀 漀渀 愀戀漀甀琀 愀爀洀漀爀⸀  䤀昀 礀漀甀 栀愀瘀攀 愀渀礀 漀琀栀攀爀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀猀Ⰰ ഊ>let me know, and I'll answer them as best as I can.
਀ഊBe aware of the errors that ffoulkes makes. He makes several
਀∀漀戀猀攀爀瘀愀琀椀漀渀猀∀ 愀戀漀甀琀 戀愀渀搀攀搀 ∀洀愀椀氀∀ 愀渀搀 爀椀渀最 ∀洀愀椀氀∀ 琀栀愀琀 䤀 挀愀渀 昀椀渀搀ഊdocumented nowhere but in his book. Page 47 shows several drawings of
਀愀爀洀漀爀 ∀挀漀渀猀琀爀甀挀琀椀漀渀猀∀ 琀栀愀琀Ⰰ 琀漀 琀栀攀 戀攀猀琀 漀昀 洀礀 爀攀猀攀愀爀挀栀Ⰰ 搀漀 渀漀琀 攀砀椀猀琀Ⰰ 搀椀搀ഊnot exist, and aren't really workable.
਀ⴀⴀ ഊJohn Groseclose <caradoc at enet.net>
਀ഊ
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 洀椀欀攀猀 愀琀 渀椀挀欀攀氀⸀甀挀猀⸀椀渀搀椀愀渀愀⸀攀搀甀 ⠀洀椀挀栀愀攀氀 猀焀甀椀爀攀猀⤀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 䄀爀洀漀爀 儀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀 漀渀 倀攀爀椀漀搀ഊDate: 19 Mar 1995 19:48:57 GMT
਀伀爀最愀渀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀㨀 䤀渀搀椀愀渀愀 唀渀椀瘀攀爀猀椀琀礀Ⰰ 䈀氀漀漀洀椀渀最琀漀渀ഊSummary: Other sources
਀ഊJohn Groseclose <caradoc at enet.net> wrote:
਀㸀洀樀漀栀渀猀漀㜀 愀琀 漀猀昀㄀⸀最洀甀⸀䔀䐀唀 ⠀䴀椀挀栀愀攀氀 倀 䨀漀栀渀猀漀渀⤀ 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ>>To have all o your basic armor questions answered, check your local 
਀ഊThe best one I've run into is in most large libraries but is out of print:
਀ഊEuropean Armour by Claude Blair.
਀ഊBe very careful with anything published before about 1950, and very very
਀挀愀爀攀昀甀氀 漀昀 愀渀礀琀栀椀渀最 瀀甀戀氀椀猀栀攀搀 椀渀 琀栀攀 ㄀㤀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀⸀ഊ
਀伀渀攀 洀愀樀漀爀 瀀爀漀戀氀攀洀 昀漀爀 渀漀瘀椀挀攀 愀爀洀漀爀攀爀猀 椀猀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 愀爀洀漀爀攀爀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀ഊhave acquired a huge amount of information which is not published in written
਀昀漀爀洀 愀渀礀眀栀攀爀攀㬀 琀栀攀 戀攀猀琀 猀漀甀爀挀攀 昀漀爀 琀栀椀猀 椀猀 吀栀攀 䠀愀洀洀攀爀 戀甀琀 椀琀 猀琀漀瀀瀀攀搀 瀀甀戀氀椀猀栀椀渀最ഊquite a few years ago and some of things described in it have been replaced by
਀漀琀栀攀爀猀 ⠀猀甀挀栀 愀猀 琀栀攀 洀攀琀栀漀搀 漀昀 洀愀欀椀渀最 戀愀猀挀椀渀攀琀猀Ⰰ 渀漀眀 挀漀洀洀漀渀氀礀 搀漀渀攀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀ഊ"3-cut" process that you can see on most SCA bascinets now sold.
਀ഊFor example, many of the armorers at Pennsic make their cops by welding two
਀瀀椀攀挀攀猀 琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀 椀渀 漀爀搀攀爀 琀漀 最攀琀 愀 猀栀愀爀瀀 瘀攀爀琀椀挀愀氀 氀椀渀攀⸀  䤀琀 椀猀 愀挀琀甀愀氀氀礀 昀愀猀琀攀爀ഊand the product  more reliable if you do it the correct way, as the weld
਀眀椀氀氀 愀氀眀愀礀猀 昀愀椀氀⸀ഊ
਀匀漀 琀栀攀 戀攀猀琀 眀愀礀 椀猀 琀漀 昀椀渀搀 愀 氀漀挀愀氀 愀爀洀漀爀攀爀 愀渀搀 眀愀琀挀栀 眀栀愀琀 琀栀攀礀 搀漀⸀  䤀昀 渀漀ഊone is local, go to an armorers's event or visit the armorers at a large
਀攀瘀攀渀琀 猀甀挀栀 愀猀 倀攀渀渀猀椀挀⸀ഊ-- 
਀䴀椀挀栀愀攀氀 䰀⸀ 匀焀甀椀爀攀猀Ⰰ 倀栀⸀䐀   䴀愀渀愀最攀爀 漀昀 䤀渀猀琀爀甀挀琀椀漀渀愀氀 䌀漀洀瀀甀琀椀渀最Ⰰ 䘀爀攀猀栀洀愀渀 伀昀昀椀挀攀ⰀഊChemistry Department, IU Bloomington, IN 47405 812-855-0852 (o) 81-333-6564 (h)
਀洀椀欀攀猀 愀琀 椀渀搀椀愀渀愀⸀攀搀甀Ⰰ 洀椀欀攀猀 愀琀 甀挀猀⸀椀渀搀椀愀渀愀⸀攀搀甀Ⰰ 漀爀 洀椀欀攀猀 愀琀 渀椀挀欀攀氀⸀甀挀猀⸀椀渀搀椀愀渀愀⸀攀搀甀ഊ
਀ഊFrom: crystal at io.com (Derk Groeneveld)
਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: Metal Scales from Australia
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 ㄀㌀ 䨀甀渀 ㄀㤀㤀㔀 ㄀㔀㨀㔀㄀㨀　㄀ 䜀䴀吀ഊ
਀嬀 䄀爀琀椀挀氀攀 挀爀漀猀猀瀀漀猀琀攀搀 昀爀漀洀 猀漀挀⸀栀椀猀琀漀爀礀⸀氀椀瘀椀渀最 崀ഊ[ Author was Derk Groeneveld ]
਀嬀 倀漀猀琀攀搀 漀渀 ㄀㈀ 䨀甀渀 ㄀㤀㤀㔀 ㈀㈀㨀㔀㐀㨀　㈀ 䜀䴀吀 崀ഊ
਀吀漀搀愀礀Ⰰ 愀 瀀愀挀欀愀最攀 愀爀爀椀瘀攀搀 漀渀 琀栀攀 洀愀椀氀 琀栀愀琀 洀愀搀攀 洀攀 愀 栀愀瀀瀀礀 洀愀渀 椀渀搀攀攀搀⸀ ഊInside I found the 1000 or so metal scales that Bill O'connel sent me... 
਀琀栀攀礀 爀攀愀氀氀礀 搀漀 氀漀漀欀 开最爀攀愀琀开Ⰰ 愀渀礀漀渀攀 挀挀漀渀琀攀洀瀀氀愀琀椀渀最 猀挀愀氀攀 愀爀洀漀甀爀Ⰰ 搀漀渀✀琀 最漀 ഊthrough the awful trouble of making them yourself, order them from bill.. 
਀愀琀 愀甀猀琀爀愀氀椀愀渀 ␀ ㄀㄀　Ⰰ 䤀一䌀䰀唀䐀䤀一䜀 瀀漀猀琀愀最攀 琀漀 琀栀攀 一攀琀栀攀爀氀愀渀搀猀Ⰰ 昀漀爀 ㄀　　　 ഊscales (should be more then enough for a byrnie), I for one won't go 
਀琀栀爀漀甀最栀 琀栀攀 瀀愀椀渀 漀昀 洀愀欀椀渀最 琀栀攀洀 洀礀猀攀氀昀⸀ ഊ
਀吀攀挀栀渀椀挀愀氀 搀攀琀愀椀氀猀㨀ഊ
਀ऀ琀栀椀挀欀渀攀猀猀㨀ऀऀ　⸀㠀洀洀ഊ	Length:			3.7cm
਀ऀ眀椀搀琀栀㨀ऀऀऀ㈀⸀㔀挀洀ഊ	weight (1000 scales):	+-5kg
਀ऀ琀爀愀渀猀椀琀 琀椀洀攀ऀऀ㈀ 眀攀攀欀猀ഊ		(Australia - Netherlands, Economy Air Mail)
਀ഊThere are also a number of double-sized sccales, for on the shoulders, 
਀眀栀椀挀栀 栀愀瘀攀 漀瘀愀氀 愀搀最攀猀 漀渀 戀漀琀栀 猀椀搀攀猀 愀搀 栀漀氀攀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀 挀攀渀琀攀爀 ⴀ 昀漀甀渀搀 㜀Ⰰ 猀漀 ഊfar.
਀ഊI think they're made of steel (correct me if wrong, Bill), of the 
਀一伀一ⴀ猀琀愀椀渀氀攀猀猀 琀礀瀀攀Ⰰ 昀漀爀 愀甀琀栀攀渀琀椀椀挀 氀漀漀欀⸀ 吀栀攀礀 栀愀瘀攀 猀漀洀攀 猀瀀漀琀猀 漀昀 爀甀猀琀 漀渀Ⰰ ഊbut that is to be expected in sheet metal - nothing a good polisghing 
਀眀漀渀✀琀 挀甀爀攀⸀⸀⸀ 伀瘀攀爀愀氀氀Ⰰ 瘀攀爀礀 最漀漀搀 焀甀愀氀椀琀礀 ⴀ 挀氀攀愀渀 挀甀琀猀Ⰰ 挀氀攀愀渀 栀漀氀攀猀 ⠀琀眀漀 ഊof them along the top)... the bottom edges are neatle rounded in a 
਀猀攀洀椀ⴀ挀椀爀挀氀攀⸀ഊ
਀䤀✀氀氀 最攀琀 戀愀挀欀 琀漀 礀✀愀氀氀 漀渀挀攀 䤀 洀愀搀攀 愀 戀礀爀渀椀攀 漀甀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 猀挀愀氀攀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 猀栀愀爀攀 ഊthe experience with all... Anybody interested can either contacct me 
਀⠀挀爀礀猀琀愀氀 愀琀 椀漀⸀挀漀洀⤀ 漀爀 戀椀氀氀 ⠀戀椀氀氀 愀琀 椀椀渀攀琀⸀渀攀琀⸀愀甀⤀ഊ
਀挀栀攀攀爀猀Ⰰഊ	Derk Groeneveld
਀ഊP.S. I have NO commerccial interest in this at all, although I hope that 
਀椀昀 愀 氀漀琀 洀漀爀攀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 最攀琀 椀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀攀搀Ⰰ 琀栀攀爀攀 洀椀最栀琀 戀攀 爀漀漀洀 昀漀爀 洀漀爀攀 猀甀挀栀 ഊinitiaativves..
਀ഊP.P.S. although I have a US email address, I really do live in the 
਀一攀琀栀攀爀氀愀渀搀猀⸀⸀⸀ 䠀漀渀攀猀琀氀礀℀ഊ
਀ഊFrom: tjustus at sprynet.com  (T. Justus)
਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: Re: Late Period Armor Padding (lengthy)
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 圀攀搀Ⰰ ㈀㘀 䴀愀爀 ㄀㤀㤀㜀 　㘀㨀㔀㘀㨀　㐀 䜀䴀吀ഊ
਀伀渀 ㈀㄀ 䴀愀爀 ㄀㤀㤀㜀 ㈀㈀㨀㔀㜀㨀㈀㈀ 䜀䴀吀Ⰰ 欀礀洀爀椀椀 愀琀 愀漀氀⸀挀漀洀 ⠀䬀礀洀爀椀椀⤀ 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ>Could someone comment on late period armor paddong methods, and their
਀㸀攀昀昀攀挀琀椀瘀攀渀攀猀猀 昀漀爀 匀䌀䄀 猀瀀漀爀琀 挀漀洀戀愀琀 愀爀洀漀爀㼀 匀漀 洀愀渀礀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 瀀甀琀 猀漀 洀甀挀栀 琀椀洀攀ഊ>and money into period armor that it seems a shame to put it all over
਀㸀挀氀漀猀攀搀 挀攀氀氀 昀漀愀洀 椀昀 琀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 愀渀 愀氀琀攀爀渀愀琀椀瘀攀⸀ഊ
਀  䤀 愀猀猀甀洀攀 琀栀愀琀 戀礀 氀愀琀攀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 礀漀甀 愀爀攀 爀攀昀攀爀椀渀最 琀漀 琀栀攀 ㄀㘀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀Ⰰഊin Europe. Unfortunately armor padding has been neglected by the
਀瀀爀漀昀攀猀猀椀漀渀愀氀 愀爀洀漀爀 猀挀栀漀氀愀爀猀ⴀⴀ 䤀 愀猀欀攀搀 䐀愀瘀椀搀 䔀搀最攀 ⠀挀甀爀愀琀漀爀 漀昀 琀栀攀ഊWallace Collection) about this specifically, and that was the response
਀䤀 最漀琀⸀ 匀漀洀攀漀渀攀 挀愀渀 洀愀欀攀 栀椀洀ⴀ漀爀ⴀ栀攀爀猀攀氀昀 吀䠀䔀 攀砀瀀攀爀琀 瀀爀攀琀琀礀 攀愀猀椀氀礀⸀⸀⸀⸀ 愀ഊsurprising amount has survived.
਀ഊ  I  have examined a couple of 16th/17th c helmet paddings. (A cabacet
਀愀渀搀 愀 戀甀爀最漀渀攀琀⸀⤀ 䈀漀琀栀 眀攀爀攀 洀愀搀攀 漀昀 焀甀椀氀琀攀搀 氀椀渀攀渀 眀椀琀栀 琀漀眀 猀琀甀昀昀椀渀最⸀ഊThe linings were stitched to a leather band rivited on the inside of
਀琀栀攀 栀攀氀洀攀琀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 氀愀挀攀搀 琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀 愀琀 琀栀攀 琀漀瀀 漀昀 琀栀攀 挀爀漀眀渀⸀ 吀栀椀猀 挀爀攀愀琀攀猀 愀ഊsuspension system akin to those in modern football and military
਀栀攀氀洀攀琀猀⸀ 匀甀挀栀 愀 瀀愀搀搀椀渀最 眀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 琀漀漀 琀栀椀渀 昀漀爀 匀䌀䄀ⴀ猀琀礀氀攀 栀椀最栀 椀洀瀀愀挀琀ഊfighting. It is fairly simple to cover a closed cell foam pad with
਀昀愀戀爀椀挀Ⰰ 栀漀眀攀瘀攀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 ⠀䤀✀洀 琀漀氀搀⤀ 洀愀欀攀猀 椀琀 洀甀挀栀 洀漀爀攀 挀漀洀昀漀爀琀愀戀氀攀 琀漀ഊwear. The padding can be laced to an interior leather band, but if the
਀栀攀氀洀攀琀 椀猀 猀渀甀最 攀渀漀甀最栀 昀爀椀挀琀椀漀渀 眀椀氀氀 欀攀攀瀀 椀琀 椀渀 瀀氀愀挀攀⸀  䔀砀瀀攀爀椀洀攀渀琀 眀椀琀栀ഊlacing the crown together-- I have heard complaints that it does the
਀樀漀戀 琀漀漀 眀攀氀氀 愀渀搀 洀愀欀攀猀 戀氀漀眀 愀挀欀渀漀眀氀攀搀最攀洀攀渀琀 瘀攀爀礀 搀椀昀昀椀挀甀氀琀⸀ ഊ  As for padding the body armor, the high quality pieces in the 16th c
਀眀攀爀攀 漀昀琀攀渀 瀀愀搀搀攀搀 琀栀爀漀甀最栀漀甀琀Ⰰ 戀漀琀栀 琀漀 愀戀猀漀爀戀 猀栀漀挀欀 愀渀搀 猀漀甀渀搀 愀渀搀 琀漀ഊprotect the elegant gilding and etching from being scraped by adjacent
਀瀀椀攀挀攀猀Ⰰ 猀甀挀栀 愀猀 瀀愀甀氀搀爀漀渀猀⸀ ⠀戀攀猀椀搀攀猀Ⰰ 爀攀搀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀 瀀椀挀愀搀椀氀猀 氀漀漀欀 匀伀ഊrefined, especially against blued steel...)  It was not as common to
਀瀀愀搀 琀栀攀 栀愀爀渀攀猀猀 愀猀 礀漀甀 最漀 搀漀眀渀 琀栀攀 猀漀挀椀愀氀 氀愀搀搀攀爀⸀ 䤀 眀漀渀✀琀 猀愀礀 椀琀 眀愀猀ഊnever done,  but I'd say it was quite rare for the common soldier to
਀栀愀瘀攀 瀀愀搀搀椀渀最 愀渀礀眀栀攀爀攀 漀渀 栀椀猀 愀爀洀漀爀 ⠀攀砀挀攀瀀琀 琀栀攀 栀攀氀洀攀琀⤀⸀ 䠀攀 眀漀爀攀 琀栀攀ഊpadding on his body, in the form of a padded doublet of cloth or
਀氀攀愀琀栀攀爀⸀  ഊ
਀  吀栀攀 瀀椀欀攀洀愀渀 漀昀 䔀氀椀稀愀戀攀琀栀✀猀 搀愀礀 眀漀爀攀 愀 栀攀氀洀攀琀Ⰰ 愀 最漀爀最攀琀Ⰰ 愀ഊbreastplate with tassets and backplate and a full arm harness with
਀瀀愀甀氀搀爀漀渀猀 愀渀搀 最愀甀渀琀氀攀琀猀⸀ 吀爀漀漀瀀猀 眀漀甀氀搀 ∀氀漀猀攀∀ 琀栀攀 氀攀猀猀 甀猀攀昀甀氀 瀀椀攀挀攀猀 漀渀ഊcampaign, such as the arm defenses. A Trained Bandsman of no
਀瀀爀攀琀攀渀猀椀漀渀猀 眀漀甀氀搀 栀愀瘀攀 樀甀猀琀 愀 栀攀氀洀攀琀 愀渀搀 愀 樀愀挀欀 漀爀 戀爀攀愀猀琀瀀氀愀琀攀⸀ 䤀昀 礀漀甀ഊwere to do an SCA interpretation of the average soldier you'd have to
਀瀀甀琀 猀攀氀攀挀琀椀瘀攀 瀀爀漀琀攀挀琀椀漀渀 甀渀搀攀爀 礀漀甀爀 挀氀漀琀栀椀渀最 琀漀 洀攀攀琀 爀攀焀甀椀爀攀洀攀渀琀猀⸀ഊFortunately this is not too difficult to do and retain the correct
਀瀀爀漀昀椀氀攀⸀ 䄀氀琀栀漀甀最栀 栀椀搀攀愀戀氀攀 愀爀洀 愀渀搀 氀攀最 愀爀洀漀爀 眀椀氀氀 戀攀 攀愀猀椀攀爀 琀漀 昀椀渀搀ഊthan proper 16th c gear, you'l have to be prepared to replace your
਀戀爀攀攀挀栀攀猀 漀渀 愀 爀攀最甀氀愀爀 戀愀猀椀猀Ⰰ 攀猀瀀攀挀椀愀氀氀礀 椀昀 礀漀甀 昀椀最栀琀 昀爀漀洀 礀漀甀爀 欀渀攀攀猀ഊmuch.
਀ഊA couple of books to look at: The Armada Campaign by John Tincey,
਀伀猀瀀爀攀礀 䔀氀椀琀攀 猀攀爀椀攀猀 ⌀㄀㔀   愀渀搀  倀愀琀琀攀爀渀猀 漀昀 䘀愀猀栀椀漀渀 ㌀㨀 琀栀攀 䌀甀琀 愀渀搀ഊConstruction of Clothes for Men and Women c1560-1620 by Janet Arnold.
਀䤀 欀渀漀眀 琀栀椀猀 爀攀猀瀀漀渀猀攀 眀愀猀 氀攀渀最琀栀礀 愀渀搀 搀椀最爀攀猀猀椀瘀攀 戀甀琀 䤀 栀漀瀀攀 椀琀 愀渀猀眀攀爀攀搀ഊyour question. 
਀ഊTracy (not Tom) Justus known as Clare de Crecy
਀䈀吀圀Ⰰ 琀栀攀爀攀 眀愀猀 愀 氀漀瘀攀氀礀 洀漀爀椀漀渀 瀀愀搀搀椀渀最 愀琀 愀甀挀琀椀漀渀 椀渀 䔀渀最氀愀渀搀 氀愀猀琀ഊyear. It was red silk velvet tie-tacked with yellow silk ribbons! The
਀瀀栀漀琀漀 眀愀猀 猀瀀攀挀琀愀挀甀氀愀爀Ⰰ 眀椀猀栀 䤀 挀漀甀氀搀 栀愀瘀攀 猀攀攀渀 琀栀攀 爀攀愀氀 琀栀椀渀最℀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 00:14:52 -0500
਀吀漀㨀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀 愀琀 䄀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀伀刀䜀ഊFrom: Dennis and/or Dory Grace <amazing at mail.utexas.edu>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 䄀一匀吀 ⴀ 刀攀㨀 䄀一匀吀ⴀ䘀椀攀氀搀 倀攀爀猀漀渀渀愀猀㼀ഊ
਀匀愀氀甀琀Ⰰ 洀攀猀 䌀漀猀礀渀猀Ⰰഊ
਀䰀礀漀渀攀氀 愀椀猀愀椀⸀ഊ
਀䰀漀爀搀 匀琀攀昀愀渀 瀀漀猀琀猀 䴀愀猀琀攀爀 䤀漀猀攀瀀栀✀猀㨀ഊ>The absolute best armour I ever saw was (is?) used by Sir Gaston, late
਀㸀漀昀 䄀琀攀渀瘀攀氀搀琀 愀渀搀 渀漀眀 戀攀椀渀最 愀渀渀漀礀椀渀最 漀瘀攀爀 椀渀 䌀愀椀搀⸀ ഊ>He walked out on the field in a most gorgeous Cavalier outfit, and put
਀㸀漀渀 栀椀猀 栀攀氀洀⸀ 䠀椀猀 漀瀀瀀漀渀攀渀琀 最漀最最氀攀搀 愀琀 栀椀洀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀渀 眀愀氀欀攀搀 漀瘀攀爀 琀漀 愀猀欀 椀昀ഊ>he had on *any* armour at *all.*
਀㸀䜀愀猀琀漀渀 爀愀瀀瀀攀搀 栀椀猀 猀眀漀爀搀 漀瘀攀爀 栀椀猀 眀栀漀氀攀 戀漀搀礀 眀椀琀栀 猀愀琀椀猀昀礀椀渀最 ⴀ琀栀甀渀欀ⴀഊ>sounds....he had sewn plates under the beautiful Cavalier!
਀ഊYep.  ABS plastic plates.  I've not only seen the suit, I have it on video;
਀匀椀爀  䜀愀猀琀漀渀 眀漀爀攀 椀琀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 䔀匀倀一 猀攀最洀攀渀琀 漀渀 䔀猀琀爀攀氀氀愀 圀愀爀 愀 昀攀眀 礀攀愀爀猀 戀愀挀欀⸀ഊ
਀匀椀爀 䰀礀漀渀攀氀 伀氀椀瘀攀爀 䜀爀愀挀攀ഊ_____________________________
਀䐀攀渀渀椀猀 䜀爀愀挀攀ഊUniversity of Texas at Austin
਀䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 䐀攀瀀愀爀琀洀攀渀琀ഊRecovering Medievalist
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀愀琀Ⰰ 　㤀 匀攀瀀 ㈀　　　 ㄀㘀㨀㐀㔀㨀㔀㈀ ⴀ　㐀　　ഊFrom: rmhowe <MMagnusM at bellsouth.net>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 䰀愀洀攀氀氀愀爀 䄀爀洀漀甀爀ഊ
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 戀愀琀琀氀攀愀砀 愀琀 猀眀戀攀氀氀⸀渀攀琀ഊSubject: Re: Lamelar ?
਀ഊMorganna,
਀ഊCheck with the Armour Archive at http://www.armourarchive.com/
਀ഊThe Armour Archive has a lot of people who can give you information
਀愀戀漀甀琀 琀栀攀 䈀椀爀欀愀 䰀愀洀攀氀氀愀爀⸀  唀猀攀 琀栀攀 猀攀愀爀挀栀 攀渀最椀渀攀 愀渀搀ഊenter "lamellar", it should give you lots of articles.  I have never
਀昀漀甀渀搀 愀 最漀漀搀 猀椀渀最氀攀 猀漀甀爀挀攀 漀昀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀 愀戀漀甀琀 琀栀攀 䈀椀爀欀愀ഊlamellar, only bits and pieces in different books.  The archeologist
਀䈀攀渀最琀 吀栀漀爀搀攀洀愀渀 最攀琀猀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀攀搀 愀 氀漀琀 椀渀 爀攀氀愀琀椀漀渀 琀漀 琀栀攀ഊBirka lamellar, and his name might be a starting place for finding
਀椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀⸀  䤀 栀漀瀀攀 礀漀甀 挀愀渀 爀攀愀搀 匀眀攀搀椀猀栀⸀  㨀⤀ഊ
਀䰀愀洀攀氀氀愀爀 眀愀猀 洀漀猀琀氀礀 愀渀 䔀愀猀琀攀爀渀 昀漀爀洀 漀昀 愀爀洀漀爀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 琀栀攀 嘀椀欀椀渀最猀 眀攀爀攀ഊclosely linked through trade with the Byzantines so they
਀栀愀搀 愀挀挀攀猀猀 琀漀 瀀爀漀搀甀挀琀猀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀愀琀 瀀愀爀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 眀漀爀氀搀⸀  䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 琀栀攀爀攀 眀愀猀ഊalso (again, Eastern-influenced) lamellar used in
਀一漀爀琀栀攀爀渀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 㘀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀 漀爀 猀漀⸀  䤀 搀漀渀✀琀 欀渀漀眀 椀昀 琀栀椀猀 猀琀礀氀攀ഊof lamellar was still in use at the start of Viking age, but
਀猀漀洀攀漀渀攀 攀氀猀攀 洀椀最栀琀⸀  匀椀渀挀攀 䈀椀爀欀愀 眀愀猀 愀 琀爀愀搀椀渀最 挀椀琀礀Ⰰ 䤀 最甀攀猀猀 琀栀攀ഊlamellar there most likely came from their ties to
਀䌀漀渀猀琀愀渀琀椀渀漀瀀氀攀⸀ഊ
਀䄀  最爀漀甀瀀 漀昀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 漀渀 琀栀攀 䄀爀洀漀甀爀 䄀爀挀栀椀瘀攀 樀甀猀琀 挀漀洀戀椀渀攀搀 昀甀渀搀猀 琀漀 栀愀瘀攀ഊBirka lamellar plates stamped by a professional metal
਀猀栀漀瀀⸀  吀栀攀礀 栀愀瘀攀 愀氀爀攀愀搀礀 挀氀漀猀攀搀 琀栀攀 漀爀搀攀爀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 猀琀愀椀渀氀攀猀猀 猀琀攀攀氀ഊplates, but I think the aluminum plate order is still open.
਀ഊLook at figure 5 on this link:
਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀瀀戀洀⸀挀漀洀⼀縀氀椀渀搀愀栀氀⼀挀愀爀椀愀搀漀挀⼀瀀攀爀昀攀挀琀开愀爀洀漀爀⸀栀琀洀氀ഊ--Cariadoc has a drawing of a Birka plate.
਀ഊThis link has information on the lacing of lamellar:
਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀漀稀攀洀愀椀氀⸀挀漀洀⸀愀甀⼀縀挀栀爀椀猀愀渀搀瀀攀琀攀爀⼀氀愀洀攀氀氀愀爀⸀栀琀洀氀ഊ
਀䤀昀 礀漀甀 搀漀 昀椀渀搀 愀 最漀漀搀 猀椀渀最氀攀 猀漀甀爀挀攀 漀昀 椀渀昀漀 愀戀漀甀琀 琀栀攀 䈀椀爀欀愀 氀愀洀攀氀氀愀爀ഊ(like a book),  please let me know.
਀ഊGood luck and Happy Armoring!
਀ഊThorfinn
਀ഊ
਀嬀挀漀渀琀爀椀戀甀琀攀搀 戀礀 䰀⸀ 䄀氀氀椀猀漀渀 倀漀椀渀瘀椀氀氀愀爀猀 搀攀 吀漀甀爀猀⸀ 䰀夀一 䴀 倀䄀刀䬀䤀一匀伀一 㰀愀氀氀椀氀礀渀 愀琀 樀甀渀漀⸀挀漀洀㸀崀ഊFrom: DuaneII at aol.com
਀吀漀㨀 猀挀愀ⴀ愀攀琀栀攀氀洀攀愀爀挀 愀琀 愀渀搀爀攀眀⸀挀洀甀⸀攀搀甀ഊSubject: [ae-mod] Re: armor authenticity
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䴀漀渀Ⰰ ㈀㄀ 䨀愀渀 ㈀　　㈀ ㄀㐀㨀㌀㌀㨀㈀㔀 䔀匀吀ഊ
਀䜀爀攀攀琀椀渀最猀 䰀椀猀琀 昀爀漀洀 䄀氀攀砀愀渀搀攀爀 䌀愀椀琀栀渀攀猀㬀ഊ
਀䤀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 爀攀愀搀椀渀最 琀栀椀猀 琀栀爀攀愀搀 愀渀搀 栀愀瘀攀 渀漀眀 挀栀漀猀攀渀 琀漀 爀攀瀀氀礀 椀渀 洀礀 挀愀瀀愀挀椀琀礀 愀猀 愀 䬀渀椀最栀琀 愀渀搀 䰀愀甀爀攀氀 ⠀䄀爀洀漀爀椀渀最⤀⸀ഊ
਀吀栀椀猀 愀爀最甀洀攀渀琀 栀愀猀 戀攀攀渀 愀爀漀甀渀搀 愀猀 氀漀渀最 愀猀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 ⠀䤀 樀漀椀渀攀搀 椀渀 ㄀㤀㜀㠀⤀⸀ 䴀愀渀礀 䬀椀渀最搀漀洀猀 栀愀瘀攀 琀爀椀攀搀 琀漀 昀漀爀挀攀 ∀瀀攀爀椀漀搀 愀爀洀漀爀∀ 甀瀀漀渀 琀栀攀椀爀 猀甀戀樀攀挀琀猀 愀渀搀 愀氀氀 愀琀琀攀洀瀀琀猀 栀愀瘀攀 昀愀椀氀攀搀⸀ 圀栀礀Ⰰ 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 漀昀 洀漀猀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 爀攀愀猀漀渀猀 礀漀甀 愀氀氀 栀愀瘀攀 氀椀猀琀攀搀Ⰰ 瀀爀椀洀愀爀椀氀礀Ⰰ 渀漀戀漀搀礀 栀愀猀 挀漀洀攀 甀瀀 眀椀琀栀 愀 爀攀愀猀漀渀愀戀氀攀 眀愀礀 琀漀 最攀琀 愀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 氀漀漀欀 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀 猀瀀攀渀搀椀渀最 愀 猀洀愀氀氀 昀漀爀琀甀渀攀⸀ഊ
਀䴀礀 瀀漀猀椀琀椀漀渀 栀愀猀 愀氀眀愀礀猀 戀攀攀渀 琀栀愀琀 愀 昀椀最栀琀攀爀 猀栀漀甀氀搀 氀漀漀欀 愀猀 ∀瀀攀爀椀漀搀 ∀ 愀猀 瀀漀猀猀椀戀氀攀 爀攀挀漀最渀椀稀椀渀最 琀椀洀攀 猀瀀攀渀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀 挀氀甀戀Ⰰ 愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀椀氀椀琀礀 漀昀 昀甀渀搀猀 愀渀搀 搀攀猀椀爀攀 琀漀 氀漀漀欀 琀栀攀 瀀愀爀琀⸀ 一漀琀 攀瘀攀爀礀漀渀攀 椀猀 栀攀爀攀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀 爀攀愀猀漀渀⠀猀⤀⸀ 䠀愀瘀椀渀最 猀愀椀搀 琀栀椀猀Ⰰ 椀猀 琀栀攀爀攀 愀 猀漀氀甀琀椀漀渀 昀漀爀 愀 瀀攀爀猀漀渀 眀椀琀栀 愀 氀椀洀椀琀攀搀 戀甀搀最攀琀 眀栀漀 眀愀渀琀猀 琀漀 琀爀礀㼀ഊ
਀䠀攀爀攀✀猀 洀礀 爀攀瀀氀礀㨀ഊ
਀䘀椀爀猀琀Ⰰ 礀漀甀 栀愀瘀攀 琀漀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 搀攀猀椀最渀 琀栀愀琀 挀愀渀 戀攀 洀愀搀攀 眀椀琀栀 愀 洀椀渀椀洀甀洀 漀昀 琀漀漀氀猀⸀ 䔀砀瀀攀渀搀椀琀甀爀攀猀 漀渀 琀漀漀氀猀 愀氀漀渀攀 挀漀甀氀搀 戀愀渀欀爀甀瀀琀 愀 戀攀最椀渀渀攀爀⸀ഊ
਀匀攀挀漀渀搀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 愀爀洀漀爀 栀愀猀 琀漀 戀攀 昀甀渀挀琀椀漀渀愀氀⸀ 匀䌀䄀 昀椀最栀琀椀渀最 椀猀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀 昀爀漀洀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 昀椀最栀琀椀渀最⸀ 䴀漀猀琀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 愀爀洀漀爀猀 眀椀氀氀 渀漀琀 昀甀渀挀琀椀漀渀 瀀爀漀瀀攀爀氀礀 昀漀爀 匀䌀䄀 甀猀攀⸀ഊ
਀吀栀椀爀搀Ⰰ 洀愀琀攀爀椀愀氀猀 栀愀瘀攀 琀漀 戀攀 猀甀昀昀椀挀椀攀渀琀 琀漀 眀椀琀栀猀琀愀渀搀 琀栀攀 愀戀甀猀攀 漀昀 昀椀最栀琀椀渀最 愀渀搀 挀栀攀愀瀀 攀渀漀甀最栀 琀漀 戀攀 愀昀昀漀爀搀愀戀氀攀⸀ഊ
਀䠀愀瘀椀渀最 猀愀椀搀 愀氀氀 琀栀椀猀 䤀 愀洀 最漀椀渀最 琀漀 猀欀椀爀琀 琀栀攀 椀猀猀甀攀 漀昀 栀攀氀洀猀⸀ 䴀漀猀琀 昀漀氀欀猀 挀愀渀 最攀琀 漀渀攀 椀昀 琀栀攀礀 琀爀礀⸀ 䄀昀琀攀爀 愀氀氀 琀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 猀漀洀攀 挀漀猀琀 漀昀 攀渀琀爀礀 椀渀 琀漀 愀渀礀 渀攀眀 愀挀琀椀瘀椀琀礀 礀漀甀✀搀 氀椀欀攀 琀漀 琀爀礀⸀ഊ
਀伀渀 琀漀 琀栀攀 愀爀洀漀爀⸀ഊ
਀䤀✀瘀攀 昀漀甀最栀琀 椀渀 愀渀搀 挀漀渀猀琀爀甀挀琀攀搀 愀爀洀漀爀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 ㄀㄀琀栀ⴀ㄀㐀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀椀攀猀⸀ 䤀✀瘀攀 攀瘀攀渀 昀漀甀最栀琀 椀渀 挀愀爀瀀攀琀 愀爀洀漀爀 愀渀搀 愀 昀爀攀漀渀 挀愀渀 栀攀氀洀⸀ ⠀夀攀猀Ⰰ 琀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 猀琀椀氀氀 瀀栀漀琀漀最爀愀瀀栀椀挀 瀀爀漀漀昀 漀昀 琀栀椀猀 愀爀漀甀渀搀⸀ 圀攀 愀氀氀 栀愀瘀攀 琀漀 猀琀愀爀琀 猀漀洀攀眀栀攀爀攀⸀⤀ 匀漀 眀栀愀琀 椀渀 洀礀 攀砀瀀攀爀椀攀渀挀攀 眀漀爀欀猀 愀渀搀 洀攀攀琀猀 琀栀攀 愀戀漀瘀攀 挀爀椀琀攀爀椀愀㼀 䠀攀爀攀 最漀攀猀㨀ഊ
਀䘀漀漀琀 瀀爀漀琀攀挀琀椀漀渀ⴀ 吀栀椀猀 椀猀 愀 搀椀昀昀椀挀甀氀琀 愀爀攀愀 琀漀 挀漀瘀攀爀 愀渀搀 瀀爀漀琀攀挀琀⸀ 䘀攀攀琀 愀爀攀 瘀攀爀礀 椀洀瀀漀爀琀愀渀琀 愀渀搀 礀漀甀 挀愀渀✀琀 昀椀最栀琀 眀攀氀氀 甀渀氀攀猀猀 礀漀甀爀 昀攀攀琀 愀爀攀 昀爀攀攀 昀爀漀洀 甀渀搀漀 戀甀爀搀攀渀⼀瀀愀椀渀⸀ 䄀昀琀攀爀 琀爀礀椀渀最 愀 瘀愀爀椀攀琀礀 漀昀 昀漀漀琀眀攀愀爀 䤀 欀攀攀瀀 挀漀洀椀渀最 戀愀挀欀 琀漀 猀渀攀愀欀攀爀猀⸀ ⠀倀愀甀猀攀 琀漀 氀攀琀 琀栀攀 猀栀漀挀欀 愀渀搀 栀漀爀爀漀爀 漀昀 琀栀椀猀 猀琀愀琀攀洀攀渀琀 最漀 愀眀愀礀 ⴀ 䤀洀愀最椀渀攀Ⰰ 愀 䰀愀甀爀攀氀 椀渀 猀渀攀愀欀攀爀猀 ⴀ 瀀椀昀昀氀攀℀℀℀⤀  䈀甀琀Ⰰ 洀礀 猀渀攀愀欀攀爀猀 愀爀攀 愀 戀椀琀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀⸀ 吀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 挀漀瘀攀爀攀搀 椀渀 愀 氀愀礀攀爀 漀昀 甀瀀栀漀氀猀琀攀爀礀 瘀攀氀瘀攀琀 琀漀 洀愀欀攀 琀栀攀洀 氀漀漀欀 氀椀欀攀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 猀栀漀攀猀⸀  ഊAdded cost - $3.00 in material/ 2 hours in time/
਀吀漀漀氀猀 ⴀ 猀攀眀椀渀最 渀攀攀搀氀攀Ⰰ 琀栀爀攀愀搀 愀渀搀 挀漀渀琀愀挀琀 挀攀洀攀渀琀⸀ഊ
਀匀栀椀渀猀 ⴀ 吀栀椀猀 愀爀攀愀 椀猀 瀀漀猀猀椀戀氀礀 洀漀爀攀 琀爀漀甀戀氀攀猀漀洀攀 琀栀愀渀 琀栀攀 昀漀漀琀⸀ 䴀愀渀礀 猀漀氀甀琀椀漀渀猀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 琀爀椀攀搀⸀ 唀渀昀漀爀琀甀渀愀琀攀氀礀 琀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 渀漀 最漀漀搀 猀漀氀甀琀椀漀渀 栀攀爀攀⸀ 䈀甀琀 琀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀 猀漀洀攀 漀瀀琀椀漀渀猀㨀ഊ
਀㄀⤀ 倀氀愀猀琀椀挀 ⠀倀椀挀欀氀攀 戀愀爀爀攀氀 漀爀 䨀漀椀渀琀 䌀漀洀瀀漀甀渀搀 戀甀挀欀攀琀猀⤀ 挀漀瘀攀爀攀搀 戀礀 琀栀爀攀眀猀 愀渀搀 挀爀漀猀猀最愀爀琀攀爀猀⸀ ⠀䈀氀漀漀搀礀 嘀椀欀椀渀最猀⤀ഊCost ~ 5.00/each- Tools - Drill, knife and hammer. Time ~ 2 hours each.
਀䴀愀琀攀爀椀愀氀猀 ⴀ 倀氀愀猀琀椀挀ⴀ 刀椀瘀攀琀猀 愀渀搀 猀琀爀愀瀀瀀椀渀最 洀愀琀攀爀椀愀氀 愀渀搀 戀甀挀欀氀攀猀⸀ഊ
਀㈀⤀ 䰀攀愀琀栀攀爀 栀愀氀昀 最爀攀愀瘀攀猀 眀椀琀栀 瀀氀愀椀渀 漀爀 搀攀挀漀爀愀琀攀 猀瀀氀椀渀琀猀⸀ 䌀漀猀琀 縀㄀㔀⸀　　 攀愀挀栀ⴀ 吀漀漀氀猀 ⴀ 愀搀搀 琀漀 琀栀攀 愀戀漀瘀攀 氀椀猀琀 愀 匀愀戀攀爀 匀愀眀 愀渀搀 栀攀愀瘀礀 栀甀渀欀 漀昀 椀爀漀渀 琀漀 瀀漀甀渀搀 甀瀀漀渀⸀ 䴀愀琀攀爀椀愀氀猀 㐀ⴀ㘀 漀稀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀⸀ 吀椀洀攀 縀 ㌀ 栀漀甀爀猀 攀愀挀栀⸀ 䴀愀琀攀爀椀愀氀猀ഊ- same as above but substitute leather for plastic. You might even add a
਀猀瀀椀昀昀礀 瘀攀氀瘀攀琀 挀漀瘀攀爀椀渀最⸀ഊ
਀㌀⤀ 䬀渀攀攀猀 ⴀ 一漀琀 洀愀渀礀 漀瀀琀椀漀渀猀 栀攀爀攀 攀椀琀栀攀爀 ⴀ 䈀甀琀 洀漀猀琀 昀漀氀欀猀 挀愀渀 洀愀渀愀最攀 琀漀 洀愀欀攀 搀椀猀栀攀搀 欀渀攀攀猀 甀猀椀渀最 猀琀攀攀氀 漀昀 ㄀㘀 最愀 漀爀 戀攀琀琀攀爀 愀渀搀 愀 戀愀氀氀ⴀ瀀攀攀渀 栀愀洀洀攀爀 愀渀搀 愀 搀椀猀栀椀渀最 猀琀甀洀瀀⸀ 吀栀攀 搀攀猀椀最渀 琀漀 最漀 昀漀爀 椀渀 愀渀 甀渀愀爀琀椀挀甀氀愀琀攀搀 ㄀㌀琀栀⼀攀愀爀氀礀 ㄀㐀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀 氀漀漀欀 眀椀琀栀 猀椀搀攀 爀漀甀渀搀攀氀  圀椀琀栀漀甀琀 琀栀攀 爀漀甀渀搀攀氀 琀栀攀猀攀 欀渀攀攀猀 挀愀渀 戀攀 栀椀搀搀攀渀 甀渀搀攀爀 琀栀爀攀眀猀 愀渀搀 眀椀氀氀 瀀爀漀琀攀挀琀 琀栀攀  愀瘀攀爀愀最攀 渀攀眀 瀀攀爀猀漀渀 昀爀漀洀 栀愀爀洀⸀ 䴀漀猀琀 昀漀氀欀猀 栀愀瘀攀 漀爀 栀愀瘀攀 愀挀挀攀猀猀 琀漀 愀 栀愀洀洀攀爀 愀渀搀 搀椀猀栀椀渀最 猀琀甀洀瀀猀 搀漀 最爀漀眀 漀渀 琀爀攀攀猀⸀ 㬀ⴀ⤀ 䤀猀 琀栀攀 爀攀猀甀氀琀 最爀攀愀琀㼀 一漀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 椀琀 氀漀漀欀猀 愀 眀栀漀氀攀 氀漀琀 戀攀琀琀攀爀 琀栀愀渀 䬀ⴀ䴀愀爀琀 猀瀀攀挀椀愀氀猀⸀ഊ
਀䌀漀猀琀 ␀㐀⸀　　 猀琀攀攀氀 ⴀ 䰀攀愀琀栀攀爀 猀琀爀愀瀀猀 愀渀搀 戀甀挀欀氀攀猀 ␀㔀⸀　　⸀ ഊTools - see above -
਀吀椀洀攀 縀 ㄀　 栀漀甀爀猀 椀昀 礀漀甀✀爀攀 眀漀爀欀椀渀最 眀椀琀栀 猀琀攀攀氀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 昀椀爀猀琀 琀椀洀攀⸀ഊ
਀䌀甀椀猀猀攀猀 ⴀ 䠀攀爀攀 椀猀 眀栀攀爀攀 愀 戀攀最椀渀渀攀爀 挀愀渀 爀攀愀氀氀礀 猀愀瘀攀 ␀␀␀⸀  䠀攀愀瘀礀 挀愀渀瘀愀猀 挀漀瘀攀爀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 甀瀀栀漀氀猀琀攀爀礀 瘀攀氀瘀攀琀 愀渀搀 氀椀渀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 猀瀀氀椀渀琀猀 洀愀搀攀 昀爀漀洀 匀愀甀搀椀 䄀爀愀戀椀愀渀 圀栀愀氀攀戀漀渀攀 ⠀ 吀栀愀琀✀猀 瀀椀挀欀氀攀 戀甀挀欀攀琀 瀀氀愀猀琀椀挀 琀漀 琀栀攀 渀漀渀ⴀ愀爀洀漀爀椀渀最 琀礀瀀攀猀⸀⤀ 吀栀椀猀 椀猀 挀栀攀愀瀀攀爀 琀栀愀渀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀Ⰰ 攀愀猀椀攀爀 琀漀 眀漀爀欀 琀栀愀渀 猀琀攀攀氀 愀渀搀 椀猀 瘀攀爀礀 挀漀洀昀漀爀琀愀戀氀攀⸀ 吀栀攀 戀椀最最攀猀琀 漀甀琀氀愀礀 椀猀 椀渀 猀瀀攀攀搀 爀椀瘀攀琀猀 爀攀焀甀椀爀攀搀 琀漀 栀漀氀搀 攀瘀攀爀礀琀栀椀渀最 琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀⸀ഊ
਀䌀漀猀琀 ⴀ 縀 ␀㈀㔀⸀　　 漀爀 氀攀猀猀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 猀攀琀⸀  吀漀漀氀猀 ⴀ 匀挀椀猀猀漀爀猀Ⰰ 戀愀爀最攀 挀攀洀攀渀琀Ⰰ 愀渀 愀眀氀⼀ 搀爀椀氀氀Ⰰ 欀渀椀昀攀Ⰰ 栀愀洀洀攀爀Ⰰ 猀漀洀攀琀栀椀渀最 栀攀愀瘀礀 愀渀搀 洀攀琀愀氀氀椀挀 琀漀 猀攀琀 琀栀攀 爀椀瘀攀琀猀 愀最愀椀渀猀琀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 愀 猀愀戀攀爀 猀愀眀⸀ഊTime investment ~ 5 hours.
਀ഊArmoring the body can be done in several different ways - Early period types might want to get themselves down to the Goodwill/Salvation Army and purchase a large women's leather coat ( the kind who's hemline approaches the knees) and line the thing with small rectangular plates. If this is not an option the armored sir-coat of the 11th and 12th century can be made from S_A Whalebone and heavy canvas covered in a fabric of your choice. You can even paint your arms upon it for that special added touch!  For the more adventurous a trip to the Library will yield a variety of patterns based upon the Visby dig, all which can be constructed from canvas and plastic. ( With snappy upholstery velvet covering of course)
਀ഊTools - as per the cuisses- 
਀䴀愀琀攀爀椀愀氀猀 ⴀ 愀猀 瀀攀爀 琀栀攀 挀甀椀猀猀攀猀⸀ ഊCost ~ $30.00 for the non-leather coat option. 
਀吀椀洀攀 縀 ㄀㔀 栀漀甀爀猀⸀ഊ
਀匀栀漀甀氀搀攀爀猀 ⴀ 吀栀攀猀攀 挀愀渀 戀攀 挀漀瘀攀爀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 搀椀猀栀攀搀 猀瀀愀甀氀搀攀爀猀 ⴀ 匀攀攀 欀渀攀攀猀 昀漀爀ഊtime/materials/cost.
਀ഊArms - Again, judicious use of canvas and plastic  or plastic covered in velvet works great. The real bugaboo is elbows. However - I designed a very easy to manufacture elbow that look descent from 5' away. Write me for the design. I'll send it out free o'charge.
਀ഊTools- Mallet/Softface hammer. Something to bend the steel around. A ball
਀瀀攀攀渀 栀愀洀洀攀爀Ⰰ 愀 栀攀愀瘀礀 挀栀甀渀欀 漀昀 猀琀攀攀氀 琀漀 爀椀瘀攀琀 甀瀀漀渀⸀ 䴀愀琀攀爀椀愀氀猀 ⴀ ㄀㘀 最愀ഊsteel, leather for straps and mounting points, small buckles and some solid
਀爀椀瘀攀琀猀⸀ഊTime - 1 hour.
਀䌀漀猀琀 ⴀ 縀 ㄀　⸀　　 愀 瀀愀椀爀⸀ഊ
਀䜀愀甀渀琀氀攀琀猀 ⴀ 圀栀愀琀 挀愀渀 䤀 猀愀礀 ⴀ 䔀瘀攀爀礀漀渀攀 椀猀 爀椀最栀琀 愀戀漀甀琀 琀栀攀猀攀 戀甀最最攀爀猀⸀ 䈀甀琀 琀栀攀 氀愀猀琀 琀椀洀攀 䤀 挀栀攀挀欀攀搀 愀 瀀愀椀爀 漀昀 最漀漀搀 最愀甀渀琀氀攀琀猀 挀漀猀琀猀 愀 眀栀漀氀攀 氀漀琀 氀攀猀猀 琀栀愀渀 愀 琀爀椀瀀 琀漀 琀栀攀 䔀洀攀爀最攀渀挀礀 刀漀漀洀 昀漀爀 堀ⴀ爀愀礀猀⸀ഊ
਀圀攀氀氀 ⴀ 琀栀愀琀 挀漀瘀攀爀猀 攀瘀攀爀礀琀栀椀渀最 攀砀挀攀瀀琀 琀栀攀 琀栀爀漀愀琀 愀渀搀 栀攀愀搀⸀ 䤀 挀攀爀琀愀椀渀氀礀 栀愀瘀攀渀✀琀 猀瀀攀渀琀 栀甀渀搀爀攀搀猀 甀瀀漀渀 栀甀渀搀爀攀搀猀 漀昀 搀漀氀氀愀爀猀 漀爀 爀攀焀甀椀爀攀搀 愀渀礀 甀渀甀猀甀愀氀 漀昀 栀愀爀搀 琀漀 最攀琀 琀漀漀氀猀⸀ 䄀搀洀椀琀琀攀搀氀礀 琀栀椀猀 猀漀氀甀琀椀漀渀 搀漀攀猀渀✀琀 挀漀瘀攀爀 愀氀氀 渀愀琀椀漀渀愀氀椀琀椀攀猀 漀爀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀猀⸀ 䈀甀琀 琀栀攀猀攀 琀攀挀栀渀椀焀甀攀猀 挀愀渀 戀攀 愀搀愀瀀琀攀搀 琀漀 猀漀氀瘀攀 猀漀洀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀猀攀 瀀爀漀戀氀攀洀猀⸀ഊ
਀吀栀攀 戀攀猀琀 眀愀礀 琀漀 戀甀椀氀搀 琀栀椀猀 愀爀洀漀爀 椀猀 甀猀椀渀最 琀栀攀 漀甀挀栀 爀攀瀀氀愀挀攀洀攀渀琀 瀀氀愀渀⸀ 䤀昀 礀漀甀 欀攀攀瀀 猀愀礀椀渀最 漀甀挀栀 ⴀ 琀栀愀琀 椀猀 琀栀攀 瀀愀爀琀 礀漀甀 眀愀渀琀 琀漀 戀甀椀氀搀 渀攀砀琀⸀ 䤀昀 礀漀甀 甀猀攀 最漀漀搀 焀甀愀氀椀琀礀 挀愀渀瘀愀猀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 栀愀爀渀攀猀猀 眀椀氀氀 猀甀爀瘀椀瘀攀 氀漀渀最 攀渀漀甀最栀 昀漀爀 愀氀氀 琀栀攀 瀀椀攀挀攀猀 琀漀 最攀琀 戀甀椀氀琀 愀渀搀 礀漀甀✀氀氀 猀琀椀氀氀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 昀攀眀 猀攀愀猀漀渀猀 氀攀昀琀 琀漀 攀渀樀漀礀 椀琀⸀ഊ
਀䤀 搀椀搀渀✀琀 洀攀愀渀 琀漀 琀甀爀渀 琀栀椀猀 椀渀琀漀 愀 挀氀愀猀猀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 琀栀攀渀 愀最愀椀渀 洀愀礀戀攀 䤀 猀栀漀甀氀搀⸀ഊ
਀刀攀洀攀洀戀攀爀Ⰰ 攀瘀攀爀礀漀渀攀 椀猀 栀攀爀攀 琀漀 氀攀愀爀渀 愀渀搀 栀愀瘀攀 昀甀渀 ⴀഊ
਀䄀氀攀砀愀渀搀攀爀 䌀愀椀琀栀渀攀猀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:35:25 -0500
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 爀洀栀漀眀攀 㰀䴀䴀愀最渀甀猀䴀 愀琀 戀攀氀氀猀漀甀琀栀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊTo: - Atlantia <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>,
਀   ⴀ 刀攀最椀愀 䄀渀最氀漀爀甀洀 ⴀ 一漀爀琀栀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀 㰀氀椀猀琀ⴀ爀攀最椀愀ⴀ甀猀 愀琀 渀攀琀眀漀爀搀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: Spun Helmet Tops in a Variety of Metals
਀ഊhttp://www.jgbraun.com/balls.html
਀匀瀀栀攀爀攀猀 愀渀搀 䠀攀洀椀猀瀀栀攀爀攀猀 椀渀 猀琀攀攀氀Ⰰ 猀琀愀椀渀氀攀猀猀Ⰰ 䈀爀愀猀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 䄀氀甀洀椀渀甀洀⸀ഊThick enough for helmet tops.
਀ഊJust happened to see a page with these today.
਀䌀愀洀攀 戀礀 椀琀 漀昀昀 漀昀 愀 䈀氀愀挀欀猀洀椀琀栀猀✀ 刀椀渀最⸀ഊhttp://rings.anvilfire.com/cgi-bin/list.pl?ringid=smithring
਀ഊCheck out http://www.kayneandson.com/
਀吀栀攀猀攀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 栀愀瘀攀 搀椀猀栀椀渀最 愀渀搀 愀爀洀漀爀椀渀最 琀漀漀氀猀 椀渀 眀攀猀琀攀爀渀 一漀爀琀栀ഊCarolina.
਀ഊDo NOT pass my address on to a newsgroup or SCA-Universitas list.
਀夀漀甀 洀愀礀 挀氀椀瀀 琀栀攀 渀攀眀猀 漀甀琀 愀渀搀 爀攀瀀漀猀琀 椀琀 椀昀 礀漀甀 氀椀欀攀⸀ഊ
਀䴀愀最渀甀猀ഊ
਀ഊPath: be1.texas.rr.com!cyclone.austin.rr.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!feed2.newsreader.com!newsreader.com!newshosting.com!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!diablo.voicenet.com!cycny01.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!p01!fed1read03.POSTED!not-for-mail
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 匀攀愀渀 䴀愀氀氀漀礀 㰀猀爀洀愀氀氀漀礀 愀琀 挀漀砀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca
਀䄀瀀瀀爀漀瘀攀搀㨀 䄀瀀瀀爀漀瘀攀搀 戀礀 䈀甀爀攀愀甀 漀昀 一愀琀甀爀愀氀 䐀椀猀愀猀琀攀爀猀Ⰰ 倀氀愀渀渀椀渀最 䐀椀瘀椀猀椀漀渀㨀 倀甀戀氀椀挀 刀攀氀攀愀猀攀ഊSubject: Re: armor question
਀伀爀最愀渀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀㨀 䈀甀爀攀愀甀 漀昀 一愀琀甀爀愀氀 䐀椀猀愀猀琀攀爀猀Ⰰ 倀氀愀渀渀椀渀最 䐀椀瘀椀猀椀漀渀ഊReply-To: srmalloy at cox.net
਀䴀攀猀猀愀最攀ⴀ䤀䐀㨀 㰀　㤀椀椀㐀　栀渀愀挀愀㘀洀戀椀洀愀攀欀攀漀瀀樀甀愀瀀㄀洀㠀昀㔀愀　㐀 愀琀 㐀愀砀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊReferences: <404520c5$0$4859$a32e20b9 at news.nntpservers.com>
਀堀ⴀ一攀眀猀爀攀愀搀攀爀㨀 䘀漀爀琀攀 䄀最攀渀琀 ㈀⸀　⼀㌀㈀⸀㘀㐀㘀ഊX-No-Archive: yes
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਀䌀漀渀琀攀渀琀ⴀ吀爀愀渀猀昀攀爀ⴀ䔀渀挀漀搀椀渀最㨀 㠀戀椀琀ഊLines: 60
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䘀爀椀Ⰰ 　㔀 䴀愀爀 ㈀　　㐀 ㄀㤀㨀㔀㘀㨀㈀㌀ ⴀ　㠀　　ഊNNTP-Posting-Host: 68.101.225.159
਀堀ⴀ䌀漀洀瀀氀愀椀渀琀猀ⴀ吀漀㨀 愀戀甀猀攀 愀琀 挀漀砀⸀渀攀琀ഊX-Trace: fed1read03 1078545382 68.101.225.159 (Fri, 05 Mar 2004 22:56:22 EST)
਀一一吀倀ⴀ倀漀猀琀椀渀最ⴀ䐀愀琀攀㨀 䘀爀椀Ⰰ 　㔀 䴀愀爀 ㈀　　㐀 ㈀㈀㨀㔀㘀㨀㈀㈀ 䔀匀吀ഊXref: be1.texas.rr.com rec.org.sca:340539
਀ഊ"RolfN" <berserker_calm at bogus.msn.com> wrote:
਀ഊ>Two questions really....
਀㸀㄀⤀ 圀栀愀琀✀猀 愀渀 愀爀洀漀爀 猀挀愀氀攀 眀漀爀琀栀㼀 匀瀀攀挀椀昀椀挀愀氀氀礀㨀ഊ>* appropriate gage stainless-steel scales
਀㸀⨀ 愀戀漀甀琀 ㈀∀ 砀 㐀∀Ⰰ 漀渀攀 攀渀搀 爀漀甀渀搀攀搀Ⰰ 渀漀 猀栀愀爀瀀 挀漀爀渀攀爀猀ഊ>* pre-punched with an appropriate pattern of 6 to 8 holes
਀㸀⨀ 爀愀搀椀甀猀攀搀 愀渀搀⼀漀爀 昀氀甀琀攀搀 昀漀爀 猀琀爀攀渀最琀栀ഊ>
਀㸀圀栀愀琀 搀漀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 琀栀椀渀欀 瀀爀攀ⴀ洀愀搀攀 猀挀愀氀攀猀 氀椀欀攀 琀栀椀猀 眀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 眀漀爀琀栀 攀愀挀栀Ⰰ 漀爀 瀀攀爀ഊ>hundred?
਀㸀ഊ>2) What's the likely market size for a "reasonably-priced" scale? 1k? 100
਀㸀洀椀氀氀椀漀渀㼀ഊ>
਀㸀䤀✀洀 琀爀礀椀渀最 琀漀 昀椀最甀爀攀 漀甀琀 椀昀 椀琀✀猀 眀漀爀琀栀 最攀琀琀椀渀最 愀 瀀甀渀挀栀 洀愀搀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 椀昀 椀琀猀 攀瘀攀渀ഊ>theoretically possible to amortize (i.e., justify) the cost of it through
਀㸀猀愀氀攀猀 漀昀 猀挀愀氀攀猀 戀攀礀漀渀搀 眀栀愀琀 䤀✀洀 甀猀椀渀最 昀漀爀 洀礀 漀眀渀 愀爀洀漀爀⸀⸀⸀⸀ഊ
਀䤀琀猀 渀漀琀 椀渀 洀攀琀愀氀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 一漀戀氀攀 倀氀愀猀琀椀挀猀 猀攀氀氀猀 瀀漀氀礀瀀爀漀瀀礀氀攀渀攀 愀爀洀漀爀 猀挀愀氀攀猀ഊin two (soon to be three) types. From their website for the scales
਀⠀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀瀀氀愀猀琀椀挀氀愀洀攀氀氀愀爀⸀挀漀洀⼀⤀㨀ഊ
਀    ✀一攀眀挀愀猀琀氀攀 倀氀愀琀攀猀 愀爀攀 洀愀搀攀 漀昀 瀀漀氀礀瀀爀漀瀀礀氀攀渀攀 愀渀搀 挀愀渀 戀攀 栀攀愀琀ⴀ昀漀爀洀攀搀ഊ     to create curves.  These plates are quite durable, and are 2‰
਀     眀椀搀攀 砀 ㌀⸀㌀㜀㔠　 氀漀渀最Ⰰ 　⸀㄀㘀〠　 琀栀椀挀欀Ⰰ 眀攀椀最栀椀渀最 ㄀⸀㔀㔀⌀ 瀀攀爀 㔀　⸀  䄀渀ഊ     „average‰ suits weigh 7-8 pounds, and takes 250-300 plates.'
਀ഊ    'Auk plates are made of polypropylene, and can be heat-formed to
਀     挀爀攀愀琀攀 挀甀爀瘀攀猀⸀  吀栀攀猀攀 瀀氀愀琀攀猀 愀爀攀 猀洀愀氀氀攀爀 琀栀愀渀 琀栀攀 一攀眀挀愀猀琀氀攀 愀渀搀ഊ     easy to lace into contoured silhouettes as they can be tapered in
਀     琀栀攀 愀猀猀攀洀戀氀礀 ⠀琀栀甀猀 愀 琀愀瀀攀爀攀搀 琀漀爀猀漀 椀猀 昀攀愀猀椀戀氀攀⤀⸀  吀栀攀 瀀氀愀琀攀猀 愀爀攀ഊ     1.22‰ wide x 2.345 long, 0.075‰ thick, weighing 0.56# per 100 and
਀     洀愀礀 爀攀焀甀椀爀攀 瀀愀搀搀椀渀最⸀  䄀渀†Ḁ愀瘀攀爀愀最攠　 猀甀椀琀猀 眀攀椀最栀猀 愀戀漀甀琀 㐀 瀀漀甀渀搀猀Ⰰഊ     and takes 600 plates.'
਀ഊThe Newcastle plates are $19.50 per bag of 50, and are available in
਀䈀氀愀挀欀Ⰰ 䌀漀瀀瀀攀爀Ⰰ 䈀氀甀攀Ⰰ 䜀漀氀搀Ⰰ 䈀爀漀眀渀Ⰰ 倀攀眀琀攀爀Ⰰ 䈀甀爀最甀渀搀礀Ⰰ 匀椀氀瘀攀爀Ⰰ 夀攀氀氀漀眀ⰀഊWhite, Green, Red, Caramel, and Purple; the Auk plates are $22.00 per
਀戀愀最 漀昀 ㄀　　Ⰰ 愀渀搀 愀爀攀 漀渀氀礀 愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀 椀渀  䜀漀氀搀Ⰰ 匀椀氀瘀攀爀Ⰰ 倀攀眀琀攀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀ഊCopper.
਀ഊThe third style of scales, 'Effingham' plates, will be kozane for
਀洀愀欀椀渀最 䨀愀瀀愀渀攀猀攀ⴀ猀琀礀氀攀 愀爀洀漀爀⸀ഊ
਀䤀琀✀猀 渀漀琀 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀 洀愀琀攀爀椀愀氀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 椀琀 最椀瘀攀猀 礀漀甀 愀渀 椀搀攀愀 漀昀 眀栀愀琀 愀ഊcommercial production cost would be.
਀ⴀⴀ ഊSean R. Malloy               | American Non Sequitur
਀    一愀瘀愀氀 䴀攀搀椀挀愀氀 䌀攀渀琀攀爀     簀       匀漀挀椀攀琀礀ഊ    San Diego, CA 92134-5000 |
਀猀爀洀愀氀氀漀礀 愀琀 挀漀砀⸀渀攀琀             簀 ∀圀攀 洀愀礀 渀漀琀 洀愀欀攀 猀攀渀猀攀Ⰰഊsrmalloy at nmcsd.med.navy.mil  |  but we do like pizza"
਀ഊ
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 眀戀昀漀甀渀琀愀椀渀 愀琀 愀漀氀⸀挀漀洀渀漀猀瀀愀洀 ⠀圀洀⸀ 䈀爀礀愀渀 䘀漀甀渀琀愀椀渀⤀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 　㐀 䴀愀爀 ㈀　　㐀 　㈀㨀㈀㤀㨀　㜀 䜀䴀吀ഊSubject: Re: armor question
਀ഊ>Coming from this angle, the cost would be anywhere between $1.75 and $5
਀㸀⠀愀爀漀甀渀搀 ␀㈀㔀　　 樀甀猀琀 昀漀爀 猀挀愀氀攀猀 椀渀 愀 昀甀氀氀 栀愀甀戀攀爀欀⤀Ⰰ 渀漀琀 挀漀甀渀琀椀渀最 搀椀攀 挀漀猀琀⸀ഊ>Which is why I was looking for some demand-side numbers that were in a bit
਀㸀猀洀愀氀氀攀爀 戀愀氀氀瀀愀爀欀 㨀ⴀ⤀⸀ 匀愀礀Ⰰ 昀漀爀 攀砀愀洀瀀氀攀Ⰰ 愀 眀攀戀ⴀ猀椀琀攀 漀昀 愀渀 愀爀洀漀爀攀爀 琀栀愀琀 猀攀氀氀猀ഊ>steel armor scales.....
਀㸀ഊ>> Charly
਀㸀刀漀氀昀一ഊ
਀吀爀礀 䜀䄀䄀 䄀爀洀漀甀爀椀攀猀 ⴀ 栀攀爀攀 椀猀 愀 氀椀渀欀 琀漀 琀栀攀 瀀愀最攀 琀栀愀琀 氀椀猀琀猀 琀栀攀椀爀 猀挀愀氀攀猀⸀⸀⸀⸀⸀ഊhttp://www.hammeredsteel.com/gaa/armour/gaa/body.htm
਀ഊLd Brun Canutteson - resident of the Midlands - (Midrealm)
਀䴀椀搀搀氀攀 䬀椀渀最搀漀洀 䌀栀椀攀昀 漀昀 䄀爀琀椀氀氀攀爀礀ഊ
਀䴀䬀䄀 ⴀ 圀洀⸀ 䈀爀礀愀渀 䘀漀甀渀琀愀椀渀ഊAsst. Professor of Industrial Technology
਀匀愀甀欀 嘀愀氀氀攀礀 䌀漀洀洀甀渀椀琀礀 䌀漀氀氀攀最攀ഊDixon, IL 
਀ഊ
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 匀椀爀 䰀礀漀渀攀氀 伀氀椀瘀攀爀 䜀爀愀挀攀 㰀猀椀爀氀礀漀渀攀氀 愀琀 栀漀琀洀愀椀氀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊDate: September 2, 2006 11:53:21 PM CDT
਀吀漀㨀 戀爀礀渀ⴀ最眀氀愀搀 愀琀 氀椀猀琀猀⸀愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最ഊSubject: Re: [Bryn-gwlad] Combat archery prep (was Re:Would-becombat	 
਀愀爀挀栀攀爀猀㼀⤀ഊ
਀㸀 䌀栀愀爀氀攀猀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀攀搀㨀ഊ> "Also, you could make them out of retired road  
਀㸀 猀椀最渀猀⸀ ⸀⸀⸀猀渀椀瀀⸀⸀⸀吀栀攀礀✀爀攀 愀氀甀洀椀渀甀洀Ⰰ 渀漀琀 猀琀攀攀氀Ⰰ 戀甀琀ഊ> the requirement is for 'rigid material', not steel.
਀㸀ഊ> Another alternative is a good, thick Kydex or ABS plastic. ...snip....
਀㸀ഊ> To which Eule offers:
਀㸀 夀攀猀Ⰰ 栀漀眀攀瘀攀爀Ⰰ 椀琀 琀愀欀攀猀 樀甀猀琀 愀猀 洀甀挀栀 攀昀昀漀爀琀 琀漀 洀愀欀攀 琀栀攀洀 漀甀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀ഊ> appropriate material as it does to make them out of something that was
਀㸀 渀漀琀 昀漀甀渀搀 椀渀 漀甀爀 搀攀猀椀最渀愀琀攀搀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀⸀ഊ>
਀㸀 䔀甀氀攀⼀匀琀攀瘀攀ഊ> Unus sed Leo
਀ഊSalut cozyns,
਀ഊPlastic and aluminum have good and bad characteristics. Generally speaking,
਀昀漀爀 琀栀攀 氀攀瘀攀氀 漀昀 愀爀洀漀爀 愀渀 愀爀挀栀攀爀 爀攀焀甀椀爀攀猀Ⰰ 䤀 猀攀攀 渀漀 爀攀愀氀 愀搀瘀愀渀琀愀最攀 椀渀 攀椀琀栀攀爀ഊmaterial. Yes, in the case of aluminum, you might obtain the raw materials
਀昀漀爀 昀爀攀攀⸀ 匀琀椀氀氀Ⰰ 琀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀 琀爀愀搀攀ⴀ漀昀昀猀 眀漀爀琀栀 挀漀渀猀椀搀攀爀椀渀最⸀ 䄀猀 漀渀攀 眀栀漀 眀攀渀琀ഊfrom a Wisby coat of plates (steel) and steel legs and arms to an aluminum
਀挀漀愀琀 漀昀 瀀氀愀琀攀猀 愀渀搀 昀椀渀愀氀氀礀 攀渀搀攀搀 甀瀀 猀瀀攀渀搀椀渀最 洀愀渀礀 礀攀愀爀猀 眀椀琀栀 瀀氀愀猀琀椀挀 戀爀攀愀猀琀ഊand back plates, plastic cuisses and greaves, and plastic arm armor, I think
਀䤀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 瀀爀攀琀琀礀 最漀漀搀 瀀攀爀猀瀀攀挀琀椀瘀攀⸀ഊ
਀䄀氀甀洀椀渀甀洀 昀爀漀洀 猀琀爀攀攀琀 猀椀最渀猀 眀漀爀欀猀 昀椀渀攀 椀昀 礀漀甀 眀愀渀琀 洀愀琀攀爀椀愀氀 琀漀 甀猀攀 愀猀 猀瀀氀椀渀琀猀ഊfor your vambraces, body armor, and gorget. For the more complex pieces like
਀欀渀攀攀猀Ⰰ 攀氀戀漀眀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 攀瘀攀渀 琀栀攀 搀攀洀椀ⴀ最愀甀渀琀氀攀琀猀Ⰰ 䴀愀猀琀攀爀 䔀甀氀攀✀猀 爀攀猀瀀漀渀猀攀 椀猀ഊgenerous. Aluminum is wonderfully light, but it's an evil metal to work.
਀䔀砀琀爀攀洀攀氀礀 戀爀椀琀琀氀攀 愀渀搀 眀椀琀栀 愀 挀爀礀猀琀愀氀氀椀渀攀 猀琀爀甀挀琀甀爀攀 琀栀愀琀 椀猀 攀愀猀椀氀礀 瀀椀渀渀攀搀Ⰰഊaluminum was to be carefully heat-treated to dish it or work in complex
਀戀攀渀搀猀⸀ 䈀礀 挀漀洀瀀愀爀椀猀漀渀Ⰰ 猀琀攀攀氀 椀猀 愀 挀愀欀攀眀愀氀欀⸀ 䘀爀愀渀欀氀礀Ⰰ 椀昀 礀漀甀✀爀攀 最漀椀渀最 琀漀 瀀甀琀ഊthat much work in, you might as well just use a thinner stainless steel and
਀琀攀洀瀀攀爀 椀琀⸀ഊ
਀䄀䈀匀 椀猀 椀渀挀爀攀搀椀戀氀礀 攀愀猀礀 琀漀 昀漀爀洀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 椀琀✀猀 氀椀最栀琀眀攀椀最栀琀⸀ 䴀愀欀攀猀 最爀攀愀琀ഊcustom-fitted body plates, cuisses, greaves, vambraces, and rerebraces. It's
਀愀氀猀漀 琀攀渀搀猀 琀漀 戀攀 愀 戀椀琀 攀砀瀀攀渀猀椀瘀攀⸀ 吀栀攀 猀琀甀昀昀 礀漀甀 最攀琀 昀漀爀 昀爀攀攀 栀愀猀 愀氀爀攀愀搀礀ഊbeen worked. Since ABS relies on layers of criss-crossed fibers to give it
਀猀琀爀攀渀最琀栀 愀渀搀 猀椀渀挀攀 栀攀愀琀椀渀最 戀爀攀愀欀猀 搀漀眀渀 琀栀漀猀攀 昀椀戀攀爀猀Ⰰ 䄀䈀匀 猀栀漀甀氀搀 漀渀氀礀 戀攀 栀漀琀ഊformed once. After that, every reheating increases its fragility.  There are
਀琀栀漀猀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 眀栀漀 栀攀愀琀 䄀䈀匀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀渀 搀椀猀栀 椀琀⸀ 吀栀椀猀 眀漀爀欀猀 椀渀 琀栀愀琀 礀漀甀 最攀琀ഊwhatever shape you want, but it also makes the material brittle. I wouldn't
਀琀爀甀猀琀 椀琀⸀ 䤀 愀氀猀漀 搀漀渀✀琀 挀愀爀攀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 氀漀漀欀 漀昀 搀椀猀栀攀搀 瀀氀愀猀琀椀挀⸀ 䤀琀 氀漀漀欀猀 愀 戀椀琀ഊtoo shiny and insect-like for my taste.
਀ഊWith the price difference and the ugly appearance, the only real gain is in
਀眀攀椀最栀琀⸀ 䠀漀渀攀猀琀氀礀Ⰰ 琀栀漀甀最栀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 琀漀琀愀氀 眀攀椀最栀琀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀 戀攀琀眀攀攀渀 愀 猀琀攀攀氀 欀渀攀攀ഊcop and an ABS knee cop is not great enough to notice when you're trying to
਀猀栀漀漀琀 搀漀眀渀 愀 栀甀渀搀爀攀搀 猀挀爀攀愀洀椀渀最 吀爀椀洀愀爀椀愀渀猀 爀甀渀渀椀渀最 甀瀀 琀栀攀 栀椀氀氀 愀琀 礀漀甀⸀ഊ
਀䄀渀漀琀栀攀爀 漀瀀琀椀漀渀 椀猀 䬀礀搀攀砀⸀ 䈀愀搀 椀搀攀愀⸀ 䠀愀猀 琀漀 戀攀 眀漀爀欀攀搀 愀琀 愀 栀椀最栀攀爀 琀攀洀瀀攀爀愀琀甀爀攀ഊthan ABS, so you're more likely to burn yourself. More to the point, if you
਀栀攀愀琀 椀琀 樀甀猀琀 愀 昀攀眀 搀攀最爀攀攀猀 琀漀漀 栀椀最栀Ⰰ 礀漀甀 最攀琀 挀礀愀渀椀搀攀 最愀猀 椀渀 礀漀甀爀 欀椀琀挀栀攀渀⸀ഊKydex is also more expensive.
਀ഊAll in all, I have to agree with Master Eule. Let the good folks in the
਀戀愀爀漀渀礀 栀攀氀瀀 礀漀甀 愀爀洀 甀瀀 椀渀 猀琀攀攀氀 愀渀搀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀⸀ഊ
਀氀漀 瘀漀猀琀爀攀 瀀攀爀 瘀漀猀 猀攀爀瘀椀爀ഊMeser Lyonel
਀ഊ
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 欀挀洀愀爀猀栀 愀琀 猀甀搀搀攀渀氀椀渀欀⸀渀攀琀ഊDate: June 14, 2007 11:13:50 AM CDT
਀吀漀㨀 䈀愀爀漀渀礀 漀昀 䈀爀礀渀 䜀眀氀愀搀 㰀戀爀礀渀ⴀ最眀氀愀搀 愀琀 氀椀猀琀猀⸀愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊSubject: [Bryn-gwlad] URLs for armour and helms and other good stuff
਀ഊI have promised to post several URLs for people lately:
਀ഊKit planning guide, intended for armour but good for planning outfits as well:
਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀瀀愀最攀猀⸀猀甀搀搀攀渀氀椀渀欀⸀渀攀琀⼀攀最爀椀洀⼀瀀愀瀀攀爀猀⼀愀爀洀漀甀爀⸀搀漀挀ഊ
਀倀愀瀀攀爀 漀渀 洀愀琀攀爀椀愀氀猀 昀漀爀 洀愀欀