SCAweapons-msg - 5/1/15

SCA weapons ideas. Construction tips. Rubber axe head sources.

NOTE: See also the files: rattan-msg, swords-msg, weapons-msg, shields-msg, jousting-msg, axes-msg, armor-msg, slings-msg, quarterstaff-msg.

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    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: kr0u+ at andrew.cmu.edu (Kevin William Ryan)
Date: 29 Mar 90 21:50:21 GMT
Organization: Biology, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

   Axes, polearms, etc...

   For polearms, I believe the present eastern regs are 1/2 inch of foam
on the cutting edge, 1/4 inch elsewhere for the padded length.  I use a
rather soft closecell.  I, however, have a rather light pole (originally a
rattan bo staff from a martial arts store - light, shaved, straight as you
could ask), and those with a heavier pole might want to put more padding on
as a kindness to their opponents.
   Axehead: I build a rather successful axe a while back - two layers of
closecell (camping pads material, 1/4 inch) in the shape of the axe, two
layers of leather (heavy, stiff, boiled would be fine) one on each side,
going part-way around the pole (bent out at the base) and stopping ~1-1/2
inches from the edge, and one large piece of foam that wraps down one side
around the pole and back up the other side to the edge.  Held together with
strapping tape, covered with duct tape.  The leather makes it solid, the
fact that it doesn't reach the cutting edge makes it reasonably soft and
therefore safe.  Note several things - you have 6-8 inches of blade behind
the cutting edge, and if you use foam that would work fine on a polearm
you will have too much compression; the leather inside turns the axe into
a _wonderful_ hooking device, but flaring the tips of the cutting edge too
much makes it difficult to use in this way; it's a good idea to mount a
thrusting tip on the pole _before_ mounting the axe blade.

                                                 kwr
                                       aka Donnallain o'r Galaru Glais
                                           BMDL, P. of Aethelmark, K. of East


From: PB06098%UAFSYSB.BITNET at MITVMA.MIT.EDU (Paul Byers)
Date: 30 Mar 90 16:54:27 GMT
Organization: Society for Creative Anachronism
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

I'v been building weapons (pole arms, maces, axes) out of white computer
foam for years. It works great for about 2 years and then it must be replaced
as it breaks down into white dust. Make sure you put a layer of straping tape
or libary tape over it, so that when it starts to 'dust' it will stay in the
head. Even after it dusts up it will work, only it will start to hit 'mushy'

Pavel
Calontir


From: asbrand at atl1.america.net (J. Andrew Parris)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Rubber Axe-Heads...Where?
Date: 20 Apr 1995 05:07:36 GMT
Organization: Tri-Cities Connection

Brian Johnson (severian at marlin.ssnet.com) wrote:
: I'm interested in the great axe-heads.  I'd appreciate any info, too.  
: Saw some at Pennsic selling on the battlefield but, alas, I didn't think 
: I'd need my money pouch in the middle of the battle....silly me!
: Severian

Greetings.  Unfortunately, I don't know where you can purchase these 
wonder weapons, aside from Pennsic, but I strongly encourage everybody to 
do so.  I've gotten two of the hand axe heads (at last Pennsic) and love 
'em.  I no longer have a problem with folks calling my blows with 'em, 
and they hook a shield (or just about anything else) like you wouldn't 
believe...!  Combine 'em with a thrusting tip and the fun REALLY begins!

Ld. Asbrand of Norway
Free Company of the Galley "LionSlayer"


From: folo at prairienet.org (F.L. Watkins)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Rubber Axe-Heads...Where?
Date: 18 Apr 1995 22:24:33 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

If I'm repeating information, forgive me. I haven't really been
following this thread.

The rubber axe heads were being sold by Talbot mac Taggart at
Pennsic. They are made, I believe, by someone from one of the
Chicago, Illinois groups, Kuji, although I don't have his
address. Talbot does not have email, but you could ring him at
708/562-7667 for additional information.

BTW, Talbot also makes very nice period shoes and boots.

Yrs, Folo
-- 
Damin de Folo - F.L.Watkins - folo at prairienet.org
Baron Wurm Wald (MidRealm) - Commander Baldwin's (NWTA)


From: brgarwood at aol.com (BRgarwood)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Rubber Axe-Heads...Where?
Date: 19 Apr 1995 11:47:32 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

Are we talking about the axe heads that are about 6" tall and look sort of
like a rocker with two arms on it?  Those are designed and created by Lord
Coridon Rathbone (David Rath) of Caer Anterth Mwar (Milwaulkee.)   E-mail
me if you want his phone number.

Lord Berwyn AEthelbryght of Ackley, Midlands Herald
Rudivale shire, Northshield, Midrealm


From: BRgarwood at aol.com (4/22/95)
To: markh at sphinx
RE>Rubber Axe-Heads...Where?

Apparently my post made  it to the net after all.  I hadn't seen it yet.  
 
Corydon Rathbone (David Rath)
2046 N. Cambridge
Milwaulkee, WI 53202
(414)273-3103

Corydon designed the axe heads and has them manufactured at a rubber
fabrication plant.  He brought about 100 to Pennsic, and sold out.  I don't
know what his supply is like now, but last I talked to him he was designing a
mace using the same technology.  

Berwyn


From: bradford at alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Bradford David Matthews)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Rubber Axe-Heads...Where?
Date: 25 Apr 1995 17:06:20 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee

: He desigend the heads and has them manufactured at a rubber fabrication
: plannt.  He brought about 100 to Pennsic and sold out.  I don't know what
: his supply situation is at the moment.   Last I spoke to him in November,
: he was designing a mace (i think) along the same lines.   

Last i talked to him, he still had a number in stock.  He also said he 
wasn't going to do the mace, because it would cost too much to make the 
flanges.  He is planning, though, to make a *cringe* double headed axe.  
Apparanetly there's a market for it *shake head in disgust*  Guess I'll 
be fighting Conan in a tournament soon.

Erik of Grenloch
Corydon's Estrellla Salesman


From: ansteorra at eden.com (7/4/95)
To: sca-middle at dnaco.net, ansteorra at eden.com, sca at mc.lcs.mit.edu, 
antir at gaia.ucs.orst.edu, atlantia-l at netcom.com, sca-caid at ecst.csuchico.edu, calotinr at unl.edu, 
sca-east at world.std.com, sca-west at ecst.csuchico.edu
Clicker Maces at Pennsic

Construction, Care and Feeding of a
Clicker Mace
by Mieczko the Swift

"Clicker Maces" are going to be allowed at Pennsic this year!  A Clicker Mace
is a mace that has rattan in the striking surface.  The Pre-Pennsic Handbook
states (p.17, Specific Weapon Standards) "No rattan in the striking surface
of axes or polearms.  Rattan in the heads of maces is permitted per Middle
Kingdom Standards."  People think that the Middle Kingdom has weird standards
on most things, so you wouldn't expect this to be any different.  You're
right!  Let's take a look at what those standards are.  
     
Maces that are to have rattan in their striking surfaces must conform to the
following:  The pieces of rattan must be at least 1.25" wide.  There must be
at least 1" of closed cell foam between the piece of rattan and the haft of
 the weapon.  There must be at least 1" of padded head above and below the
rattan in the striking surface.  

Editorial:  The 1" of foam between the pieces of rattan (hereafter called
"clickers") and the haft needs to be 1" AFTER it is taped up.  Don't try to
put an inch of foam down, and compress it to nothing by taping it to death.
 There needs to be "progressively resistant give" in the macehead or it will
not pass inspection.  Secondly, if there are any "Corners" or edges in the
rattan they need to be rounded off.  The pieces of rattan should have nice
round, blunt edges on the top and bottom, or again, they won't pass
inspection.

If you have questions about this, you can E-Mail me at MIECZKO at AOL.COM.
This is not an official Middle Kingdom presentation, and the opinions here
are those of Mieczko the Swift (mka Duane Roberts) not the Middle Kingdom,
nor anybody else.  Thank you.

Mieczko


From: kellogg at rohan.sdsu.edu (C. Kevin Kellogg)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Combat Throwing Axes
Date: 9 Oct 1995 20:11:45 GMT
Organization: San Diego State University Computing Services

In <44qb3e$nrn at newsbf02.news.aol.com> brgarwood at aol.com (BRgarwood) writes:

>At Pennsic this year, some were using throwing axes in the battles.  I'd
>appreciate any info on constructing these things.

	I don't know what the Pennsic axes were like, but I can describe
ones Ta'nar Longspear and I made and used at Estrella and Potrero.

	I used a stiff open cell packing foam (it's either polystyrene or
polyethylene, I can't keep these straight) that is about 2 inches wide.
This foam softens with use, and becomes resilient. I cut the whole thing
out, handle and blade, as a single peice.  A length of schedule 120 pvc
pipe can be pushed up into the handle for greater stability and durability.
I contact cemented a peice of dense black closed cell foam on the blade edge,
and another peice of the same foam on the end of the handle.  The latter
was a result of empirical research, the things wouldn't fly right
without the counterweight.  Cover the whole thing in duct tape (we used
brown or black for the handle, for esthetics), and mark the blade with
a contrasting color.  

	Lord Sherridan O'Neil (I completely anglesized the spelling, I
can't hope to remember the Gaelic) made some double-bitted versions
that flew like frisbies when flung side-armed. :-)

		Avenel Kellough


From: brgarwood at aol.com (BRgarwood)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Combat Throwing Axes
Date: 5 Oct 1995 15:05:37 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

In article <951004164117_116202467 at emout06.mail.aol.com>,
PGPADRAIC at aol.COM writes:
>
>Would you m'lord be so kind as to supply an address to send the SASE too.
>Or could anyone supply an address for his Grace MoonWolf and/or the Pale?
>
>Padraic

The last two PALEs haven't had a list of landed barons, an I don't know if
Moonwulf uses the same plans, but here's something I got in E-mail from 
Donnchadh Mac Aonghais

Berwyn

These are the instructions that we are currently using in the Principality
of AEthelmearc, East Kingdom.

Construction starts with a length of old garden hose, 3/4" to 1" in
diameter, rubber type preferred, but vinyl will do, about 36" long.

Cut a piece of ethylfoam (boffer foam, though closed cell foam works as
well) about 4" square and 1" - 2" thick.  Cut a groove all around the
edge.  Fold one end of the hose around the foam so that all the edges of
the foam are covered.  Double the remainder of the hose to form a handle. 
Tie the whole thing into position with strapping (fiberglass/filiment)
tape.  Wrap some open cell or closed cell foam around the butt of the
handle and around the edge of the head and tape into place.  Wrap the head
of the axe with duct tape.


From: "Michael Gunter" <michael_gunter1 at msmail.fnts.com>
To: ansteorra at eden.com
Date: 20 Sep 1996 13:48:04 U
Subject: RE: Throwing axes

Gnith/Scott <swhite at onr.com> said:
>Ansteorran Warlord Dieter, in his recent war tactics class, recommended that
>fighters carry a throwing ax or two into battle and hurl them just before
>engaging in unit melee. Sounds like a good plan to me ... so how do ya make
>the axes?

>Anyone have a recipe for an aerodynamic throwing ax that will both be safe
>and cause hits that fighters will take? Or is that an oxymoron ... ?

One of the best designs for throwing axes I found was in an OLD issue of
Tournaments Illuminated.  Basically take an old garden hose and bend into the
axe shape (including handle), fold the head around a big chunk of open cell
foam and then wrap the entire ax in duct tape.  It's heavy, aerodynamic and
should hit with a decent "thunk".  If problems occur, this is a good design
to play with and modify.


Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 11:21:14 -0500
To: ansteorra at eden.com
From: gunnora at bga.com (Gunnora Hallakarva)
Subject: Re: Spear pennants

>Damon recommends:
>>BTW, for an additional neat touch.  Get electrical tape in your colors.
>>Spiral wrap the shaft with the alternating colors.  This is a great visual
>>effect and makes it easier for people watching you from the sidelines to
>>locate you.
>
>Or colored duct tape. See my file:
>duct-tape-msg      (9K)  7/ 5/96    Sources for unusual colors of duct tape.
>
>Stefan li Rous

A technique that I've used in the past on both spear and weapons shafts is
to encase them in cable shrink wrap... which comes in all colors of the
rainbow.  The plastic that's used is very tough, and will protect the shaft
of your spear from gouges incurred by hitting the upper edge of shield
rims.  It can be expensive, so you may only want to do the last 2 or 3 feet
near the business end, but the durability that results is amazing.  You have
to use a heat gun to shrink the stuff (I had a very bad experience trying to
"gently" toast some with a propane torch!) but these can be rented at small
expense.  Sir Richard ap Morgan in Bjornsborg is the best source I know to
tell you where to get the stuff in appropriate lengths and diameters.

If anyone needs contact info for Richard, e-mail direct to me & I'll send
you his phone number.

Gunnora Hallakarva

Who thinks that spear-stealing is a great excuse for carrying a strapped on
buckler and a mace... of course, any excuse for a mace is a good excuse...


From: "Hugh Niewoehner" <hughn at ssd.fsi.com>
Organization: FlightSafety International
To: ansteorra at eden.com
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 08:02:43 +0000
Subject: RE: Ballista Spears

I have used Javlins constructed of  1" PVC approx.  Both seemed to 
work well.  The shafts were mostly about 4' in length.  The shafts 
were wrapped  with fiberglass tape and then 
electrical tape run lengthwise down the shaft.   Both ends were 
capped.  A thruster of  slightly greater than standard one hand size  
was built on the end and a 18-24" leather or canvas streamer attached 
to the butt.  The streamer and it's length was arrived at by 
experimentation.   Lengthening the shaft or streamer gave more 
stabilized flight but became unweildy and difficult to throw far.  
Less than about 3.5' of shaft length was easy to throw but the javlin 
tended to tumble or strike with insufficient force due to light 
weight. 

Damon


From: david.razler at worldnet.att.net (David M. Razler)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Flails
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 07:47:14 GMT

eirik at juno.com (Kevin L. Deal) wrote:
| Recently someone stated, one of the reasons for banning flails was due
| to wrist injuries.  I was wondering if anyone can document such an
| injury, or if it is a bardic myth?  And if so, how many injuries
| occured and over what time period?

In early years, there were reportedly a few injuries owing to chain weapons. I
have suggested several times that extremely light-gauge polystyrene ornamental
chains given a dose of UV to further weaken them would make perfect flails, as
the chain would wrap around the arm and disintegrate, to which a proper
response would be to declare the arm obviously broken or otherwise out of
commission.

Of course, the victorious fighter would be left with a rather ordinary rattan
stick following that one good shot....

                                dmr

David M. Razler
david.razler at worldnet.att.net


From: jhrisoulas at aol.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Flails
Date: 6 Feb 1997 01:23:44 GMT

| Recently someone stated, one of the reasons for banning flails was due
| to wrist injuries.  I was wondering if anyone can document such an
| injury, or if it is a bardic myth?  And if so, how many injuries
| occured and over what time period?

There is another reason: A mundane legal one.

Flairs are considered to be "slung shots" in most States and are illegal. 
The definition of a slung shot is a weight attached to a handle by a
flexible means. It could also come under the Nunchaku definition as well,
which are alos prohibited in a number of jurisdictions.

While an arguement of "sporting use" and "martial arts" status could be
used I would not wish to be the test case to set precedent.

If in doubt..check you local Penal Codes as they are available in your
public library..

Atar, Baron Bakhtar, Ol
aka
SFC JP Hrisoulas
NVDoM


From: nerak at aol.com (Nerak)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Flails
Date: 6 Feb 1997 01:58:16 GMT

As I recall from earlier days in the SCA when some flail weapons were
being experiented with, that if the weapon acted like a real flail -- it
ACTED like a REAL flail.  That is, if it swung like the real thing; it did
damage like the real thing!  By the time morningstars and flails were
padded to the point that they were no longer dangerous, they could not be
handled like the weapons they were.
Nerak la Tisserande
Nerak at aol.com


From: "William Herrera" <ThRev at elink.net>
Subject: Re: Flails
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: 6 Feb 97 07:36:35 GMT

Greeting from William, (sometimes kown as "that Bastard William!!)
Kevin L. Deal <eirik at juno.com> wrote:
> Recently someone stated, one of the reasons for banning flails was due
> to wrist injuries.  I was wondering if anyone can document such an
> injury, or if it is a bardic myth?  And if so, how many injuries
> occured and over what time period?
 
> Eirik
 
Eirik,
While the possibbility of the wrist injury you speak of  is real, I have
never personally witnessed it. I used to play with a different group years
ago that used boffer flails: Broom handle, padded  clothes line and  large
nerf balls duct taped together. This worked for the group, which fought
with boffer style weapons and no armor genarally. I used one my self and
its harder than you think. Besides unless your fighting florentine you
don't want to "tangle" your only means of offence. The best use of the
Flail, (IMO) is to get around that pesky barn door shieldman on front of
you or hitting around a corner or window embrasure. The case is different
in our (SCA) case tho because the potential lethality of OUR style weapons
has increased, compared to the boffer group of course. In this I'm
reffering to damage done by the "Head" of the Flail as opposed to "Wrist
entanglement".  For this we need no Bard but the powers of math and
physics. I shall Quote from "The Fighter's Hand Book" by Earl Kevin
Perigrynne, Fourth Printing Third edition 1986. Appendix C p.149 all
spelling errors mine

snip
"consider a morgenstern consisting of a kilogram weight on the end of one
foot of chain, which is attached at it's other end to an aggregate of three
feet of handle and arm. The weight is travelling in its path at a velocity
of 100 kph, with its center of rotation at the users shoulder.
The point at which the chain joins the handle now meets the edge of the
opponents shield. This point becomes the new center of rotation, and
reduces the radius to one foot.
Since the change (increase) in the velocity is inversly proportional to the
change (reduction) of the radius  (in this case 4:1), the weight whips
around the new center of rotation at a velocity  of 400kph (about 260mph).
The kinetic energy produced is 6.2 x 10 (to the tenth power) gm/cm/second,
or SIXTEEN TIMES the force of the same weight and velocity if it had just
been struck straight on." 
End Snip

This being the Law of Conservation of Angular Momentum.  This also applies
to one armed sword or axe shots but the effect isn't as dramatic or
powerful genarally due to different ratios. The "Bellatrix Snap" being a
notable exception tho.
Besides as cool a weapon as the flail is, I certainly would use one, I'm
not so sure that I'd want "Sir Hitzmhard", who on a "bad" day gives me that
"Tent-Peg" feeling, to be able to hit me a possible SIXTEEN times harder
than he normally pounds me with. Now while I'm sure that there may be a way
around this given the wide variety of foams and plastics availble to us,  I
still haven't seen anything that had enuff mass to make me aknowledge it
but still lite enuff to be safe (IMO). This is not an invitation to a
flame, No doubt someone is busy trying to craft one even now and I'd love
to hear about it.

Lord William de Cordoba
Shire of South Keep, Trimaris
MKA William Herrera


From: hicksc at aol.com (Hicksc)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Flails
Date: 7 Feb 1997 20:53:13 GMT

I have fought against and used flails trying to figure out whether we
could bring them into the SCA, as the Marshal of the East, and then as the
Marshal of Atlantia.

In the first instance, Siegfried (von Halstern) and I made a flail with a
short chain (about 1 foot) with the head made out an industrial rubber
(provided by Sir Corwyn, to be name dropping). It worked fine, we couldn't
get it to really wrap around a limb. However, we found that it was hard to
acknowledge uniformly.  Blows to the head were often too hard, while those
to the limb barely registered.

So we went no further that time.

Later, while EM of Atlantia, we had a number of 'events' with some of the
other recreation groups, notably Marklandr and Acre.  It was an
interesting effort to share technology and techniques, as well as creating
some good feeling among the groups.

The Marklandr have always been a little more adventuresome with their
weapon types than the local SCA.  There's the fellow "Weird Weapon
Charlie" in Marklandr, who specialized in ......weird weapons. This time,
he had a peasant flail, 4 foot handle, 3 foot padded flail, with a few
inches of rope (I believe). 

Again, interesting weapon, I think more feasible, but there wasn't a
ground swell of interest.  Besides, I stepped down from being EM and .....

Besides, where we are (NOVA), if you want to play Tuhuck, Dagohir,
Marklandr, SCA they're local, even Acre's not far away. Just because
you're an SCA knight doesn't mean you can't be a peasant bowman in
Marklandr.

ST


From: greycat at tribeca.ios.com (Greycat Sharpclaw)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: flails again
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 03:50:26 GMT
Organization: IDT 

There is an allegation that ashleigh at earthlink.net (Kevin Deal) wrote:
>A few weeks ago I posted a query concerning the ban on flails. 

bandwidthectomy...

>I'm not a physics expert.  My physics was 1 yr. freshman physics taken a 
>long time ago, so I could easily be wrong.  

I am somewhat... BS WPI, MS Rutgers before shifting to engineering...

>Flails have 2 velocities 
>angular and tangent.  

>Tangent velocity is the actual velocity of the 
>flail head and doesn't increase.  

False... Tangental velocity is added by the "snap" effect.  The head
initially lags behind the handle, and is pulled behind.  If the handle
decelerates, the head whips around it in a circle (if there's enough
swing in the motion to provide tention in the chain).  Much of the
momentum (linear and angular) and energy that was in the handle gets
transfered to the head.

Whips use this same basic effect, and gets impressive results... if an
expert truely "cracks" the whip, what you heard was the sonic boom of
the tiny tip at mach 1

Also, the fact that the flail swing starts moving the handle, then
transfers to the head, allows the trained flailer to add speed more
efficiently during the swing... the angular inertia is lower when the
head is trailing then it is for a equal weight&reach non-flexable
object, as the mass at this time is closer to the swinger.  It's like
swinging a straight rod that suddenly turns itself into a
sledge-hammer just before impact - speed of the rod, concentrated
power of the sledge.

I'm not sure the relative importance of these factors... it depends on
exact design & technique (sports physics... the details of applying
muscle power to maximum effect... was a specialty I never dived deeply
into).  But they are additive, and both serve to allow the energy of
the swing to be concentrated into the relatively small head at the
time of impact.

But it is this *concentration* of the force into the head that gives
the properly used flail it's power.

>Angular velocity does increase but that 
>is due to the radius decrease not an increase in energy.

>The described situation is a simple machine and all the principles that 
>apply to machines apply to it. Potential Energy is converted into Kinetic 
>Energy.  Your description fits a perpetual motion machine in energy is 
>created. 

No... energy is transfered and concentrated, not created.  But
concentrated kinetic energy is more destructive than difuse energy.

This is why sledge hammers hit harder than straight rods... the weight
(hence the enegy) is concentrated in the sledge, not the handle.  It
is also why the better anti-armor kinetic-energy gun warheads (APCR
and APDS) have small, very heavy cores and light surroundings... to
concentrate the power of a large-caliber gun into a small area.  (APDS
also sheds the outer surrounding, the "sabot", but that's for other
benefits).

In general, weapons that concentrate energy into a small area are more
descructive... and definately better at penetrating armor... than
those that spread the same energy over a larger area.  

And with hand weapons, the energy and momementum near the hands is
particularly wasted... it's not on the target... yes some of it
transfers to the target area, but during contact, by the flex of the
weapon... so you have spread the impact over time as well as space.

Flails use a primative, but very effective, bit of machinery to
provide this concentration of kinetic energy.  That's also why they're
harder to use... you got to make sure the concentration happens at the
right time.  And that you don't kill yourself in the process.

>I know I stated this badly, and I'm sure there is someone who can 
>confirm, refute or explain it better.  If so, can they please reply.

>Eirik
>eirik at juno.com

I doubt if I stated my point any better, but yes, I refute what you
said.  I hope you understand the mechanics better, now.

Lord Emrys Cador               David M. Mann
Barony of Settmour Swamp       greycat at tribeca.ios.com
Eastrealm


Subject: Re: BG - I'm BAAAA-AAACK!!!!
Date: Fri, 15 May 98 20:37:14 MST
From: ldcharls at swbell.net
To: bryn-gwlad at Ansteorra.ORG

damaris wrote:
> Hey, do you have the address of the place that sells those rubber axe
> heads.  Gunnora wants some and actually so do I.  Also who did you order
> the rattan from?

I picked up a rubber axehead at Gulf Wars from Golden Age Productions.
They sell single-sided axeheads for $35, and double-sided for $60. Their
address is 2760 Michigan Ave, Suite 2, Kissimmee, Fl, 34744. Their phone
# is 1-800-671-4867.

Charles


Subject: ANST - Armour/weapons links
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 99 08:48:20 MST
From: jhartel <jhartel at net-link.net>
To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG

Greetings from the cold north!

The following is a neat site if you are interested in SCA
armour/weapons.

http://members.aol.com/sca110323/gate08.htm

Moriel***


Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 08:50:30 -0500
To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
From: Robert VanRens <Robert.VanRens at mail.netlobby.com>
Subject: re: rubber axes

Before you invest in one of these (and they aren't cheap) make sure they're 
legal in Atantia (I wouldn't know, I've moved here fairly recently from the 
Midrealm and have yet to get the Earl Marshall to return a single 
e-mail).  If they are, I know the gentle who manufactures them (in Caer 
Anterth Mawr, they are a patented item and *only* he makes them - accept 
no substitutes) and would be willing to procure one for you.

For that matter, I have a used one.  I don't much like them, they're heavy 
and the way they strike seems _wrong_ somehow.  Not that I mind if others 
use them, as long as they _practice_.  It's a very different weapon than, 
say, a Nerf mace.  But no, despite my ambivalence for them, I'm not selling 
my own.  I occasionally find it useful, especially for tent-pegging an 
over-enthusiastic barbarian.

The Rathbone Axe is made in both single- and double-bitted style.  The 
double-bit is a bit narrower, so it weighs about the same as the 
single-bit.  I found that a hitch-ball on the base of the shaft makes a 
serviceable, if heavy, weapon.  I'll check the prices and get back to 
you.  Anyone else who wants one, contact me and I'll be happy to oblige.

Eadric Fahomra


Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 22:49:17 MST
From: Therion <therion1 at io.com>
Subject: ANST - Re: A bit on weapons
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org

From: "Greg Shetler" <odsman at hotmail.com>
> 1) If you construct a short axe (say, less than 3 feet long), it is just 
> about impossible to keep it under the weight limit if you use a basket hilt 
> on it.  Similarly, it is just about impossible to make it pass the balance 
> test (head heavier than hilt) if a basket hilt is on the weapon.  Even 
> without a basket hilt, if the axe is shorter than 2 feet long, you will 
> likely still be overweight....

This makes perfect sense - there are no historical cultures, times, or
places that developed a basket-hilted axe. The entire point (beg pardon)
of an axe is the penetrating power of the overbalanced sharp heavy head.

> 2) With axes and glaives, which kill if the head strikes even off-edge, why 
> do we bother to mark a striking edge?

The theory is that polearms are heavy enough to kill even when hit flat -
this is a holdover from the early, less well-researched days of the SCA.
Authentic halberds, glaives, and axes are much lighter than you imagine
them to be. We've just been conditioned by years of bad India and
Philippines repros and massively overweighted rattan and foam weapons.
SCA polearms *shouldn't* kill on a flat or haft shot. Knock a man in armor
silly, perhaps, but not necessarily an incapacitating kill. (Note that
polearm is my favorite weapons form, so it's hard for me to argue to
degrade their performance, but fact can be just as much fun as fiction).
Unpadded polearms are a good way to get the speed and impact of our SCA
weapons up to real-world lethality, but I prefer to make realistic looking
ultra-light polearm heads: use your favorite medieval weapons picture
book, a sharp knife, a foam boogie-board from Academy, and lots and lots
of 4" long pieces of high-quality strapping tape.

> 3) If we are considered to be wearing open-faced helms, so that we should 
> take any thrust to the face that would have touched the face, why do we just 
> shrug off incidents of our own shield bashing into our face hard enough to 
> rock us?

Nasty gouges and a few shattered teeth are nothing compared to a spear in
the eye socket. If you get pounded in the face with your own shield, shake
your head, pretend to spit out a couple of teeth, and dive back into the
fray with fire in your eyes. A touch of acting makes fighting much more
fun for both participants and observers.

					Therion


Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 05:08:05 MST
From: cchipman at nomadics.com (Carl Chipman)
Subject: Re: ANST - Spear Help
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>

From: James Crouchet <jtc at io.com>
>I have a 9 foot length of rattan and some foam, fiber tape and duct tape.
>How do I make a spear? How much of what kind of foam do I put where, and
>which tape do I use to tape what?
>
>Don Dore

Well, since no one else replied, I'll help.  The method taught to me goes like this

1) cut out about 4 or 5 circular disks (2" in diameter).
2) place disks on top of each other like so 

___________________________________
|                                  |
|__________________________________|
|                                  |
|__________________________________|
|                                  |
|__________________________________|
|                                  |
|__________________________________|
|                                  |
|__________________________________|

|----------------------2"---------------------------|

2b) (optional) I have epoxyed each disk together before, and it seems to make the whole device act like one unit.
     Your mileage may vary.

3) Tape with (strapping tape) together by wrapping around the the top so that a side view looks like this :

  ___________________________________
|            |      |                 |
|____________|  T   |_________________|
|            |  A   |                 |
|____________|  P   |_________________|
|            |  E   |                 |
|____________|      |_________________|
|            |      |                 |
|____________|      |_________________|
|            |      |                 |
|____________|______|_________________|

4) rotate the tip 90 degrees and tape again.

5) Now, from the top, the circle should have a cross going over it of strapping tape.

6) Attache the tip to the end of the rattan using several (2 to 4) or the top loops of strapping tape.

7) take the strapping tape and starting 2 or 3 inches from the end of the rattan, spiral the strapping tape up to the top of the thrusting tip.

8) spiral wrap down from the top of the thrusting tip.

9) Cover with duct tape (remembering to make the tip brightly colored if possible).

9) (optional, but very good).  Before covering with duct tape, cut 2 8" long x 2" wide strips of denim (say old blue jeans).  Like in step six, attach the strips over the top of the tip to the shaft to help provide lateral bend resistance.  Best results so far have been using this method.  Sir Asoph says that even with doing all of this he has to replace his every six months or so (but he uses them a LOT :-) )

If you need more help, feel free to e-mail me.

Jean Paul de Sens
Mooneschadowe...


Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:35:15 MST
From: Rod Jackson <culn97 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: ANST - Spear Help
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org

Try using the foam "fun noodles" that people play with
in the moat.

Cullinn

--- James Crouchet <jtc at io.com> wrote:
> Just one question: What kind of foam do I use?
>  
> > 1) cut out about 4 or 5 circular disks (2" in diameter).
> 
> Dore


Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 23:36:43 MST
From: "Okami Sabishii" <okami69 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: ANST - Spear Help
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org

My experience of Fun Noodles is that they aren't very sturdy foam.  They 
tend to breakdown alot faster than other types of foam.  I would suggest 
some form of camping bed roll foam.  You can usually find some blue colored 
ones in most camping/sporting goods/Wal-Mart/K-mart types of stores.  Also 
you can find green army bedrolls at army surplus stores.  Most foam rolls 
cost about 10-15 dollars.  I've gotten some used ones at army surplus for as 
low as 2 dollars a roll.

Okami
Canton of Lindenwood


From: Chas <webmasterNOSPAM at historicgames.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Fencing Pikes?
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 21:31:43 -0600
Organization: Rose & Pentagram

Drew Nicholson wrote:
> "James Koch" <alchem at en.com> wrote in message
> news:16cb0184.0404151005.7de394e5 at posting.google.com...
> > To Whom It May Concern,
> > >
> > I have just now checked the new improved and recently updated society
> > rapier approved weapons page.  I can find no mention of fencing pikes
> > or spears, but remember these being mentioned as under developement.
> > The reason I ask in this regard is that we have just now engineered a
> > workable fencing pike using one of our Safeflex rapier blades as a
> > point.  These blades are long enough to provide the give required when
> > using such a weapon and cheap enough to keep the cost low considering
> > pikes will be used only a few times per year.  Who is currently
> > conducting experiments with this type of weapon?
> > >
> > Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
>
> As far as I know, no one is.
>
> What are you mounting the "blade" on?

Do you mean actual pikes -as were used in blocks of pikemen? The British
"Sealed Knot Society" which portrays the English Civil War has been
simulating a "push of pike" for years. The pikes are 12 or 14-foot dowels
with just painted points on them. the "push of pike" begins with opposing
units approaching and briefly "fencing" -trying to push each other's pikes to
the side point-to-point from a safe distance. Then for the actual push of
pike everyone comes to a "port-arms" position and the pike blocks actually
physically meet and it turns into something like a rugby scrum. The first
side to break looses the push and must retreat and both units reform as
quickly as possible. In spite of what it sounds like they have a good safety
record outside of bruises or occasional sprained ankles. If anyone falls
down, the yell goes out "man down" and the push immediate breaks apart.

I had the chance to participate in this type of simulation in the battles of
Nasby and Worcester reentactments held in Staunton, Virgina a few years ago
by the U.S. 17th century reenactment community (with quite a few Sealed Knot
members in attendance as well). It was quite a rush, at one point I ended up
in the front of the block and when we met the opposing block I actually got
lifted off the ground for a moment until one of the sides broke up and the
push broke up. Do web searches for Sealed Knot Society sites or the English
Civil War Society of America and you can probably find the rules they use for
"fencing" or "pushes" with pikes if that is  the sort of thing you're asing
about.

Chas aka
Capt. Andrew Monro (ret.)
Colonel Gaffney's Rgt. of Pike & Shot


From: Carl Chipman <cchipman at nomadics.com>
Date: January 10, 2006 12:43:57 PM CST
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Subject: RE: [Ansteorra] Rubber Ax Head?

Check here:

http://www.mandrakearmory.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=MA&Category_Code=MsWp

Jean Paul

-----Original Message-----
I need some rubber Ax heads, to be honest I do not know what they are 
made of but I just had a chance to use one and love them. I really would 
like to know where I could buy them the person I got the loner from was 
gifted the ax head and has no idea where to get one. If any one has some 
info on where to get a couple could you please let me know I cannot seem 
to find them online.
-- 
Suren Unegen (Majestic Fox)
Costal Region Siege Marshal
Silver Fox Squadron, Commanding


From: digigirl <digigirl at gmail.com>
Date: January 10, 2006 1:01:22 PM CST
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Rubber Ax Head?

I know Anshelm Arms used to sell them (www.anshelmarms.com) but I've
been out of the loop for a while.

Ceinwen


From: Asoph Hearts <asophhearts at hotmail.com>
Date: January 10, 2006 5:41:30 PM CST
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Rubber Ax Head?

Mandrake Armory has them.
www.mandrakearmory.com

The BEST customer service in the Known World!

Ritter Asoph


Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 15:37:51 -0400
From: Jeb Raitt <jbrmm266 at aol.com>
To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org, mungoe1 at msn.com
Subject: [MR] Mace Head Idea

http://www.kryptane.com/contentPDFs/AcornRollers.pdf

These are used in potato harvesters.  They've been green-lighted by the SEM. [Society Earl Marshal] They're fairly light, but hit with authority.  They cost about $10. Information on distributors will follow.

Donal Mac Ruiseart


From: Jay Rudin <rudin at peoplepc.com>
Date: July 29, 2011 9:55:34 AM CDT
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA,Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Ansteorra] Flails (was: Questions regarding slings & Tavern Fights)

Daniel wrote:
<<<I Have Heard that, in the early days, someone tried a flail made from some sort of rod + plastic chain + a Nerf football, as they thought Nerf would be soft enough.  As I heard it: wrong, the crack-the-whip effect made it hit very hard, and because it was on the end of a chain, it wasn't very controllable.  And so (the tale ended) they banned all flails, nunchuks, and their ilk.

Have I indicated strongly enough how hearsayish the story was? >>>

In the principality days, somebody brought one that was roughly three balls on three ropes. According to Duke Lloyd, the problem was that, unlike an actual flail, it was very light, so it was too easy to throw a shot that was nearly impossible to block (because it was three shots in three different locations). It was banned because it didn't act like a real weapon.

The problem with most flail designs is that if it's light, it's way too fast and easy. If it's heavy enough to behave like a flailing mass weapon, then it behaves like a flailing mass weapon.

Robin of Gilwell / Jay Rudin

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	SCAweapons-msg	Page 18 of 18