Home Page

Stefan's Florilegium

SCAweapons-msg



This document is also available in: text or RTF formats.

SCAweapons-msg - 10/14/06

 

SCA weapons ideas. Construction tips. Rubber axe head sources.

 

NOTE: See also the files: rattan-msg, swords-msg, weapons-msg, shields-msg, jousting-msg, axes-msg, armor-msg, slings-msg, quarterstaff-msg.

 

************************************************************************

NOTICE -

 

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

 

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

 

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

 

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

 

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

 

Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                          Stefan at florilegium.org

************************************************************************

 

From: kr0u+ at andrew.cmu.edu (Kevin William Ryan)

Date: 29 Mar 90 21:50:21 GMT

Organization: Biology, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

 

   Axes, polearms, etc...

 

   For polearms, I believe the present eastern regs are 1/2 inch of foam

on the cutting edge, 1/4 inch elsewhere for the padded length.  I use a

rather soft closecell.  I, however, have a rather light pole (originally a

rattan bo staff from a martial arts store - light, shaved, straight as you

could ask), and those with a heavier pole might want to put more padding on

as a kindness to their opponents.

   Axehead: I build a rather successful axe a while back - two layers of

closecell (camping pads material, 1/4 inch) in the shape of the axe, two

layers of leather (heavy, stiff, boiled would be fine) one on each side,

going part-way around the pole (bent out at the base) and stopping ~1-1/2

inches from the edge, and one large piece of foam that wraps down one side

around the pole and back up the other side to the edge. Held together with

strapping tape, covered with duct tape.  The leather makes it solid, the

fact that it doesn't reach the cutting edge makes it reasonably soft and

therefore safe.  Note several things - you have 6-8 inches of blade behind

the cutting edge, and if you use foam that would work fine on a polearm

you will have too much compression; the leather inside turns the axe into

a _wonderful_ hooking device, but flaring the tips of the cutting edge too

much makes it difficult to use in this way; it's a good idea to mount a

thrusting tip on the pole _before_ mounting the axe blade.

 

                                                 kwr

                                       aka Donnallain o'r Galaru Glais

                                           BMDL, P. of Aethelmark, K. of East

 

 

From: PB06098%UAFSYSB.BITNET at MITVMA.MIT.EDU (Paul Byers)

Date: 30 Mar 90 16:54:27 GMT

Organization: Society for Creative Anachronism

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

 

I'v been building weapons (pole arms, maces, axes) out of white computer

foam for years. It works great for about 2 years and then it must be replaced

as it breaks down into white dust. Make sure you put a layer of straping tape

or libary tape over it, so that when it starts to 'dust' it will stay in the

head. Even after it dusts up it will work, only it will start to hit 'mushy'

 

Pavel

Calontir

 

 

From: asbrand at atl1.america.net (J. Andrew Parris)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Rubber Axe-Heads...Where?

Date: 20 Apr 1995 05:07:36 GMT

Organization: Tri-Cities Connection

 

Brian Johnson (severian at marlin.ssnet.com) wrote:

: I'm interested in the great axe-heads.  I'd appreciate any info, too.  

: Saw some at Pennsic selling on the battlefield but, alas, I didn't think

: I'd need my money pouch in the middle of the battle....silly me!

: Severian

 

Greetings.  Unfortunately, I don't know where you can purchase these

wonder weapons, aside from Pennsic, but I strongly encourage everybody to

do so.  I've gotten two of the hand axe heads (at last Pennsic) and love

'em.  I no longer have a problem with folks calling my blows with 'em,

and they hook a shield (or just about anything else) like you wouldn't

believe...!  Combine 'em with a thrusting tip and the fun REALLY begins!

 

Ld. Asbrand of Norway

Free Company of the Galley "LionSlayer"

 

 

From: folo at prairienet.org (F.L. Watkins)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Rubber Axe-Heads...Where?

Date: 18 Apr 1995 22:24:33 GMT

Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

 

If I'm repeating information, forgive me. I haven't really been

following this thread.

 

The rubber axe heads were being sold by Talbot mac Taggart at

Pennsic. They are made, I believe, by someone from one of the

Chicago, Illinois groups, Kuji, although I don't have his

address. Talbot does not have email, but you could ring him at

708/562-7667 for additional information.

 

BTW, Talbot also makes very nice period shoes and boots.

 

Yrs, Folo

--

Damin de Folo - F.L.Watkins - folo at prairienet.org

Baron Wurm Wald (MidRealm) - Commander Baldwin's (NWTA)

 

 

From: brgarwood at aol.com (BRgarwood)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Rubber Axe-Heads...Where?

Date: 19 Apr 1995 11:47:32 -0400

Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

 

Are we talking about the axe heads that are about 6" tall and look sort of

like a rocker with two arms on it?  Those are designed and created by Lord

Coridon Rathbone (David Rath) of Caer Anterth Mwar (Milwaulkee.)   E-mail

me if you want his phone number.

 

Lord Berwyn AEthelbryght of Ackley, Midlands Herald

Rudivale shire, Northshield, Midrealm

 

 

From: BRgarwood at aol.com (4/22/95)

To: markh at sphinx

RE>Rubber Axe-Heads...Where?

 

Apparently my post made  it to the net after all.  I hadn't seen it yet.  

Corydon Rathbone (David Rath)

2046 N. Cambridge

Milwaulkee, WI 53202

(414)273-3103

 

Corydon designed the axe heads and has them manufactured at a rubber

fabrication plant.  He brought about 100 to Pennsic, and sold out.  I don't

know what his supply is like now, but last I talked to him he was designing a

mace using the same technology.  

 

Berwyn

 

 

From: bradford at alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Bradford David Matthews)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Rubber Axe-Heads...Where?

Date: 25 Apr 1995 17:06:20 GMT

Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee

 

: He desigend the heads and has them manufactured at a rubber fabrication

: plannt.  He brought about 100 to Pennsic and sold out. I don't know what

: his supply situation is at the moment.   Last I spoke to him in November,

: he was designing a mace (i think) along the same lines.

 

Last i talked to him, he still had a number in stock.  He also said he

wasn't going to do the mace, because it would cost too much to make the

flanges.  He is planning, though, to make a *cringe* double headed axe.  

Apparanetly there's a market for it *shake head in disgust*  Guess I'll

be fighting Conan in a tournament soon.

 

Erik of Grenloch

Corydon's Estrellla Salesman

 

 

From: ansteorra at eden.com (7/4/95)

To: sca-middle at dnaco.net, ansteorra at eden.com, sca at mc.lcs.mit.edu,

antir at gaia.ucs.orst.edu, atlantia-l at netcom.com, sca-caid at ecst.csuchico.edu, calotinr at unl.edu,

sca-east at world.std.com, sca-west at ecst.csuchico.edu

Clicker Maces at Pennsic

 

Construction, Care and Feeding of a

Clicker Mace

by Mieczko the Swift

 

"Clicker Maces" are going to be allowed at Pennsic this year!  A Clicker Mace

is a mace that has rattan in the striking surface.  The Pre-Pennsic Handbook

states (p.17, Specific Weapon Standards) "No rattan in the striking surface

of axes or polearms.  Rattan in the heads of maces is permitted per Middle

Kingdom Standards."  People think that the Middle Kingdom has weird standards

on most things, so you wouldn't expect this to be any different.  You're

right!  Let's take a look at what those standards are.  

    

Maces that are to have rattan in their striking surfaces must conform to the

following:  The pieces of rattan must be at least 1.25" wide.  There must be

at least 1" of closed cell foam between the piece of rattan and the haft of

the weapon.  There must be at least 1" of padded head above and below the

rattan in the striking surface.  

 

Editorial:  The 1" of foam between the pieces of rattan (hereafter called

"clickers") and the haft needs to be 1" AFTER it is taped up.  Don't try to

put an inch of foam down, and compress it to nothing by taping it to death.

There needs to be "progressively resistant give" in the macehead or it will

not pass inspection.  Secondly, if there are any "Corners" or edges in the

rattan they need to be rounded off.  The pieces of rattan should have nice

round, blunt edges on the top and bottom, or again, they won't pass

inspection.

 

If you have questions about this, you can E-Mail me at MIECZKO at AOL.COM.

This is not an official Middle Kingdom presentation, and the opinions here

are those of Mieczko the Swift (mka Duane Roberts) not the Middle Kingdom,

nor anybody else.  Thank you.

 

Mieczko

 

 

From: kellogg at rohan.sdsu.edu (C. Kevin Kellogg)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Combat Throwing Axes

Date: 9 Oct 1995 20:11:45 GMT

Organization: San Diego State University Computing Services

 

In <44qb3e$nrn at newsbf02.news.aol.com> brgarwood at aol.com (BRgarwood) writes:

 

>At Pennsic this year, some were using throwing axes in the battles.  I'd

>appreciate any info on constructing these things.

 

        I don't know what the Pennsic axes were like, but I can describe

ones Ta'nar Longspear and I made and used at Estrella and Potrero.

 

        I used a stiff open cell packing foam (it's either polystyrene or

polyethylene, I can't keep these straight) that is about 2 inches wide.

This foam softens with use, and becomes resilient. I cut the whole thing

out, handle and blade, as a single peice.  A length of schedule 120 pvc

pipe can be pushed up into the handle for greater stability and durability.

I contact cemented a peice of dense black closed cell foam on the blade edge,

and another peice of the same foam on the end of the handle.  The latter

was a result of empirical research, the things wouldn't fly right

without the counterweight.  Cover the whole thing in duct tape (we used

brown or black for the handle, for esthetics), and mark the blade with

a contrasting color.  

 

        Lord Sherridan O'Neil (I completely anglesized the spelling, I

can't hope to remember the Gaelic) made some double-bitted versions

that flew like frisbies when flung side-armed. :-)

 

               Avenel Kellough

 

 

From: brgarwood at aol.com (BRgarwood)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Combat Throwing Axes

Date: 5 Oct 1995 15:05:37 -0400

Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

 

In article <951004164117_116202467 at emout06.mail.aol.com>,

PGPADRAIC at aol.COM writes:

>

>Would you m'lord be so kind as to supply an address to send the SASE too.

>Or could anyone supply an address for his Grace MoonWolf and/or the Pale?

>

>Padraic

 

The last two PALEs haven't had a list of landed barons, an I don't know if

Moonwulf uses the same plans, but here's something I got in E-mail from

Donnchadh Mac Aonghais

 

Berwyn

 

These are the instructions that we are currently using in the Principality

of AEthelmearc, East Kingdom.

 

Construction starts with a length of old garden hose, 3/4" to 1" in

diameter, rubber type preferred, but vinyl will do, about 36" long.

 

Cut a piece of ethylfoam (boffer foam, though closed cell foam works as

well) about 4" square and 1" - 2" thick. Cut a groove all around the

edge.  Fold one end of the hose around the foam so that all the edges of

the foam are covered.  Double the remainder of the hose to form a handle.

Tie the whole thing into position with strapping (fiberglass/filiment)

tape.  Wrap some open cell or closed cell foam around the butt of the

handle and around the edge of the head and tape into place.  Wrap the head

of the axe with duct tape.

 

 

From: "Michael Gunter" <michael_gunter1 at msmail.fnts.com>

To: ansteorra at eden.com

Date: 20 Sep 1996 13:48:04 U

Subject: RE: Throwing axes

 

Gnith/Scott <swhite at onr.com> said:

>Ansteorran Warlord Dieter, in his recent war tactics class, recommended that

>fighters carry a throwing ax or two into battle and hurl them just before

>engaging in unit melee. Sounds like a good plan to me ... so how do ya make

>the axes?

 

>Anyone have a recipe for an aerodynamic throwing ax that will both be safe

>and cause hits that fighters will take? Or is that an oxymoron ... ?

 

One of the best designs for throwing axes I found was in an OLD issue of

Tournaments Illuminated. Basically take an old garden hose and bend into the

axe shape (including handle), fold the head around a big chunk of open cell

foam and then wrap the entire ax in duct tape.  It's heavy, aerodynamic and

should hit with a decent "thunk". If problems occur, this is a good design

to play with and modify.

 

 

Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 11:21:14 -0500

To: ansteorra at eden.com

From: gunnora at bga.com (Gunnora Hallakarva)

Subject: Re: Spear pennants

 

>Damon recommends:

>>BTW, for an additional neat touch.  Get electrical tape in your colors.

>>Spiral wrap the shaft with the alternating colors. This is a great visual

>>effect and makes it easier for people watching you from the sidelines to

>>locate you.

>

>Or colored duct tape. See my file:

>duct-tape-msg      (9K)  7/ 5/96    Sources for unusual colors of duct tape.

>

>Stefan li Rous

 

A technique that I've used in the past on both spear and weapons shafts is

to encase them in cable shrink wrap... which comes in all colors of the

rainbow.  The plastic that's used is very tough, and will protect the shaft

of your spear from gouges incurred by hitting the upper edge of shield

rims.  It can be expensive, so you may only want to do the last 2 or 3 feet

near the business end, but the durability that results is amazing.  You have

to use a heat gun to shrink the stuff (I had a very bad experience trying to

"gently" toast some with a propane torch!) but these can be rented at small

expense.  Sir Richard ap Morgan in Bjornsborg is the best source I know to

tell you where to get the stuff in appropriate lengths and diameters.

 

If anyone needs contact info for Richard, e-mail direct to me & I'll send

you his phone number.

 

Gunnora Hallakarva

 

Who thinks that spear-stealing is a great excuse for carrying a strapped on

buckler and a mace... of course, any excuse for a mace is a good excuse...

 

 

From: "Hugh Niewoehner" <hughn at ssd.fsi.com>

Organization: FlightSafety International

To: ansteorra at eden.com

Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 08:02:43 +0000

Subject: RE: Ballista Spears

 

I have used Javlins constructed of  1" PVC approx. Both seemed to

work well.  The shafts were mostly about 4' in length. The shafts

were wrapped  with fiberglass tape and then

electrical tape run lengthwise down the shaft.   Both ends were

capped.  A thruster of  slightly greater than standard one hand size  

was built on the end and a 18-24" leather or canvas streamer attached

to the butt.  The streamer and it's length was arrived at by

experimentation.   Lengthening the shaft or streamer gave more

stabilized flight but became unweildy and difficult to throw far.  

Less than about 3.5' of shaft length was easy to throw but the javlin

tended to tumble or strike with insufficient force due to light

weight.

 

Damon

 

 

From: david.razler at worldnet.att.net (David M. Razler)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Flails

Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 07:47:14 GMT

 

eirik at juno.com (Kevin L. Deal) wrote:

| Recently someone stated, one of the reasons for banning flails was due

| to wrist injuries.  I was wondering if anyone can document such an

| injury, or if it is a bardic myth?  And if so, how many injuries

| occured and over what time period?

 

In early years, there were reportedly a few injuries owing to chain weapons. I

have suggested several times that extremely light-gauge polystyrene ornamental

chains given a dose of UV to further weaken them would make perfect flails, as

the chain would wrap around the arm and disintegrate, to which a proper

response would be to declare the arm obviously broken or otherwise out of

commission.

 

Of course, the victorious fighter would be left with a rather ordinary rattan

stick following that one good shot....

 

                                dmr

 

David M. Razler

david.razler at worldnet.att.net

 

 

From: jhrisoulas at aol.com

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Flails

Date: 6 Feb 1997 01:23:44 GMT

 

| Recently someone stated, one of the reasons for banning flails was due

| to wrist injuries.  I was wondering if anyone can document such an

| injury, or if it is a bardic myth?  And if so, how many injuries

| occured and over what time period?

 

There is another reason: A mundane legal one.

 

Flairs are considered to be "slung shots" in most States and are illegal.

The definition of a slung shot is a weight attached to a handle by a

flexible means. It could also come under the Nunchaku definition as well,

which are alos prohibited in a number of jurisdictions.

 

While an arguement of "sporting use" and "martial arts" status could be

used I would not wish to be the test case to set precedent.

 

If in doubt..check you local Penal Codes as they are available in your

public library..

 

Atar, Baron Bakhtar, Ol

aka

SFC JP Hrisoulas

NVDoM

 

 

From: nerak at aol.com (Nerak)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Flails

Date: 6 Feb 1997 01:58:16 GMT

 

As I recall from earlier days in the SCA when some flail weapons were

being experiented with, that if the weapon acted like a real flail -- it

ACTED like a REAL flail.  That is, if it swung like the real thing; it did

damage like the real thing!  By the time morningstars and flails were

padded to the point that they were no longer dangerous, they could not be

handled like the weapons they were.

Nerak la Tisserande

Nerak at aol.com

 

 

From: "William Herrera" <ThRev at elink.net>

Subject: Re: Flails

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Date: 6 Feb 97 07:36:35 GMT

 

Greeting from William, (sometimes kown as "that Bastard William!!)

Kevin L. Deal <eirik at juno.com> wrote:

> Recently someone stated, one of the reasons for banning flails was due

> to wrist injuries.  I was wondering if anyone can document such an

> injury, or if it is a bardic myth?  And if so, how many injuries

> occured and over what time period?

> Eirik

Eirik,

While the possibbility of the wrist injury you speak of is real, I have

never personally witnessed it. I used to play with a different group years

ago that used boffer flails: Broom handle, padded  clothes line and  large

nerf balls duct taped together. This worked for the group, which fought

with boffer style weapons and no armor genarally. I used one my self and

its harder than you think. Besides unless your fighting florentine you

don't want to "tangle" your only means of offence. The best use of the

Flail, (IMO) is to get around that pesky barn door shieldman on front of

you or hitting around a corner or window embrasure. The case is different

in our (SCA) case tho because the potential lethality of OUR style weapons

has increased, compared to the boffer group of course. In this I'm

reffering to damage done by the "Head" of the Flail as opposed to "Wrist

entanglement".  For this we need no Bard but the powers of math and

physics. I shall Quote from "The Fighter's Hand Book" by Earl Kevin

Perigrynne, Fourth Printing Third edition 1986. Appendix C p.149 all

spelling errors mine

 

snip

"consider a morgenstern consisting of a kilogram weight on the end of one

foot of chain, which is attached at it's other end to an aggregate of three

feet of handle and arm. The weight is travelling in its path at a velocity

of 100 kph, with its center of rotation at the users shoulder.

The point at which the chain joins the handle now meets the edge of the

opponents shield. This point becomes the new center of rotation, and

reduces the radius to one foot.

Since the change (increase) in the velocity is inversly proportional to the

change (reduction) of the radius  (in this case 4:1), the weight whips

around the new center of rotation at a velocity  of 400kph (about 260mph).

The kinetic energy produced is 6.2 x 10 (to the tenth power) gm/cm/second,

or SIXTEEN TIMES the force of the same weight and velocity if it had just

been struck straight on."

End Snip

 

This being the Law of Conservation of Angular Momentum. This also applies

to one armed sword or axe shots but the effect isn't as dramatic or

powerful genarally due to different ratios. The "Bellatrix Snap" being a

notable exception tho.

Besides as cool a weapon as the flail is, I certainly would use one, I'm

not so sure that I'd want "Sir Hitzmhard", who on a "bad" day gives me that

"Tent-Peg" feeling, to be able to hit me a possible SIXTEEN times harder

than he normally pounds me with. Now while I'm sure that there may be a way

around this given the wide variety of foams and plastics availble to us,  I

still haven't seen anything that had enuff mass to make me aknowledge it

but still lite enuff to be safe (IMO). This is not an invitation to a

flame, No doubt someone is busy trying to craft one even now and I'd love

to hear about it.

 

Lord William de Cordoba

Shire of South Keep, Trimaris

MKA William Herrera

 

 

From: hicksc at aol.com (Hicksc)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Flails

Date: 7 Feb 1997 20:53:13 GMT

 

I have fought against and used flails trying to figure out whether we

could bring them into the SCA, as the Marshal of the East, and then as the

Marshal of Atlantia.

 

In the first instance, Siegfried (von Halstern) and I made a flail with a

short chain (about 1 foot) with the head made out an industrial rubber

(provided by Sir Corwyn, to be name dropping). It worked fine, we couldn't

get it to really wrap around a limb. However, we found that it was hard to

acknowledge uniformly.  Blows to the head were often too hard, while those

to the limb barely registered.

 

So we went no further that time.

 

Later, while EM of Atlantia, we had a number of 'events' with some of the

other recreation groups, notably Marklandr and Acre.  It was an

interesting effort to share technology and techniques, as well as creating

some good feeling among the groups.

 

The Marklandr have always been a little more adventuresome with their

weapon types than the local SCA.  There's the fellow "Weird Weapon

Charlie" in Marklandr, who specialized in ......weird weapons. This time,

he had a peasant flail, 4 foot handle, 3 foot padded flail, with a few

inches of rope (I believe).

 

Again, interesting weapon, I think more feasible, but there wasn't a

ground swell of interest.  Besides, I stepped down from being EM and .....

 

Besides, where we are (NOVA), if you want to play Tuhuck, Dagohir,

Marklandr, SCA they're local, even Acre's not far away. Just because

you're an SCA knight doesn't mean you can't be a peasant bowman in

Marklandr.

 

ST

 

 

From: greycat at tribeca.ios.com (Greycat Sharpclaw)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: flails again

Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 03:50:26 GMT

Organization: IDT

 

There is an allegation that ashleigh at earthlink.net (Kevin Deal) wrote:

>A few weeks ago I posted a query concerning the ban on flails.

 

bandwidthectomy...

 

>I'm not a physics expert.  My physics was 1 yr. freshman physics taken a

>long time ago, so I could easily be wrong.  

 

I am somewhat... BS WPI, MS Rutgers before shifting to engineering...

 

>Flails have 2 velocities

>angular and tangent.  

 

>Tangent velocity is the actual velocity of the

>flail head and doesn't increase.  

 

False... Tangental velocity is added by the "snap" effect.  The head

initially lags behind the handle, and is pulled behind. If the handle

decelerates, the head whips around it in a circle (if there's enough

swing in the motion to provide tention in the chain). Much of the

momentum (linear and angular) and energy that was in the handle gets

transfered to the head.

 

Whips use this same basic effect, and gets impressive results... if an

expert truely "cracks" the whip, what you heard was the sonic boom of

the tiny tip at mach 1

 

Also, the fact that the flail swing starts moving the handle, then

transfers to the head, allows the trained flailer to add speed more

efficiently during the swing... the angular inertia is lower when the

head is trailing then it is for a equal weight&reach non-flexable

object, as the mass at this time is closer to the swinger. It's like

swinging a straight rod that suddenly turns itself into a

sledge-hammer just before impact - speed of the rod, concentrated

power of the sledge.

 

I'm not sure the relative importance of these factors... it depends on

exact design & technique (sports physics... the details of applying

muscle power to maximum effect... was a specialty I never dived deeply

into).  But they are additive, and both serve to allow the energy of

the swing to be concentrated into the relatively small head at the

time of impact.

 

But it is this *concentration* of the force into the head that gives

the properly used flail it's power.

 

>Angular velocity does increase but that

>is due to the radius decrease not an increase in energy.

 

>The described situation is a simple machine and all the principles that

>apply to machines apply to it. Potential Energy is converted into Kinetic

>Energy.  Your description fits a perpetual motion machine in energy is

>created.

 

No... energy is transfered and concentrated, not created. But

concentrated kinetic energy is more destructive than difuse energy.

 

This is why sledge hammers hit harder than straight rods... the weight

(hence the enegy) is concentrated in the sledge, not the handle.  It

is also why the better anti-armor kinetic-energy gun warheads (APCR

and APDS) have small, very heavy cores and light surroundings... to

concentrate the power of a large-caliber gun into a small area.  (APDS

also sheds the outer surrounding, the "sabot", but that's for other

benefits).

 

In general, weapons that concentrate energy into a small area are more

descructive... and definately better at penetrating armor... than

those that spread the same energy over a larger area.  

 

And with hand weapons, the energy and momementum near the hands is

particularly wasted... it's not on the target... yes some of it

transfers to the target area, but during contact, by the flex of the

weapon... so you have spread the impact over time as well as space.

 

Flails use a primative, but very effective, bit of machinery to

provide this concentration of kinetic energy.  That's also why they're

harder to use... you got to make sure the concentration happens at the

right time.  And that you don't kill yourself in the process.

 

>I know I stated this badly, and I'm sure there is someone who can

>confirm, refute or explain it better.  If so, can they please reply.

 

>Eirik

>eirik at juno.com

 

I doubt if I stated my point any better, but yes, I refute what you

said.  I hope you understand the mechanics better, now.

 

Lord Emrys Cador               David M. Mann

Barony of Settmour Swamp       greycat at tribeca.ios.com

Eastrealm

 

 

Subject: Re: BG - I'm BAAAA-AAACK!!!!

Date: Fri, 15 May 98 20:37:14 MST

From: ldcharls at swbell.net

To: bryn-gwlad at Ansteorra.ORG

 

damaris wrote:

> Hey, do you have the address of the place that sells those rubber axe

> heads.  Gunnora wants some and actually so do I. Also who did you order

> the rattan from?

 

I picked up a rubber axehead at Gulf Wars from Golden Age Productions.

They sell single-sided axeheads for $35, and double-sided for $60. Their

address is 2760 Michigan Ave, Suite 2, Kissimmee, Fl, 34744. Their phone

# is 1-800-671-4867.

 

Charles

 

 

Subject: ANST - Armour/weapons links

Date: Sun, 21 Feb 99 08:48:20 MST

From: jhartel <jhartel at net-link.net>

To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG

 

Greetings from the cold north!

 

The following is a neat site if you are interested in SCA

armour/weapons.

 

http://members.aol.com/sca110323/gate08.htm

 

Moriel***

 

 

Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 08:50:30 -0500

To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org

From: Robert VanRens <Robert.VanRens at mail.netlobby.com>

Subject: re: rubber axes

 

Before you invest in one of these (and they aren't cheap) make sure they're

legal in Atantia (I wouldn't know, I've moved here fairly recently from the

Midrealm and have yet to get the Earl Marshall to return a single

e-mail).  If they are, I know the gentle who manufactures them (in Caer

Anterth Mawr, they are a patented item and *only* he makes them - accept

no substitutes) and would be willing to procure one for you.

 

For that matter, I have a used one.  I don't much like them, they're heavy

and the way they strike seems _wrong_ somehow.  Not that I mind if others

use them, as long as they _practice_.  It's a very different weapon than,

say, a Nerf mace.  But no, despite my ambivalence for them, I'm not selling

my own.  I occasionally find it useful, especially for tent-pegging an

over-enthusiastic barbarian.

 

The Rathbone Axe is made in both single- and double-bitted style.  The

double-bit is a bit narrower, so it weighs about the same as the

single-bit.  I found that a hitch-ball on the base of the shaft makes a

serviceable, if heavy, weapon.  I'll check the prices and get back to

you.  Anyone else who wants one, contact me and I'll be happy to oblige.

 

Eadric Fahomra

 

 

Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 22:49:17 MST

From: Therion <therion1 at io.com>

Subject: ANST - Re: A bit on weapons

To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org

 

From: "Greg Shetler" <odsman at hotmail.com>

> 1) If you construct a short axe (say, less than 3 feet long), it is just

> about impossible to keep it under the weight limit if you use a basket hilt

> on it.  Similarly, it is just about impossible to make it pass the balance

> test (head heavier than hilt) if a basket hilt is on the weapon.  Even

> without a basket hilt, if the axe is shorter than 2 feet long, you will

> likely still be overweight....

 

This makes perfect sense - there are no historical cultures, times, or

places that developed a basket-hilted axe. The entire point (beg pardon)

of an axe is the penetrating power of the overbalanced sharp heavy head.

 

> 2) With axes and glaives, which kill if the head strikes even off-edge, why

> do we bother to mark a striking edge?

 

The theory is that polearms are heavy enough to kill even when hit flat -

this is a holdover from the early, less well-researched days of the SCA.

Authentic halberds, glaives, and axes are much lighter than you imagine

them to be. We've just been conditioned by years of bad India and

Philippines repros and massively overweighted rattan and foam weapons.

SCA polearms *shouldn't* kill on a flat or haft shot. Knock a man in armor

silly, perhaps, but not necessarily an incapacitating kill. (Note that

polearm is my favorite weapons form, so it's hard for me to argue to

degrade their performance, but fact can be just as much fun as fiction).

Unpadded polearms are a good way to get the speed and impact of our SCA

weapons up to real-world lethality, but I prefer to make realistic looking

ultra-light polearm heads: use your favorite medieval weapons picture

book, a sharp knife, a foam boogie-board from Academy, and lots and lots

of 4" long pieces of high-quality strapping tape.

 

> 3) If we are considered to be wearing open-faced helms, so that we should

> take any thrust to the face that would have touched the face, why do we just

> shrug off incidents of our own shield bashing into our face hard enough to

> rock us?

 

Nasty gouges and a few shattered teeth are nothing compared to a spear in

the eye socket. If you get pounded in the face with your own shield, shake

your head, pretend to spit out a couple of teeth, and dive back into the

fray with fire in your eyes. A touch of acting makes fighting much more

fun for both participants and observers.

 

                                      Therion

 

 

Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 05:08:05 MST

From: cchipman at nomadics.com (Carl Chipman)

Subject: Re: ANST - Spear Help

To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>

 

From: James Crouchet <jtc at io.com>

>I have a 9 foot length of rattan and some foam, fiber tape and duct tape.

>How do I make a spear? How much of what kind of foam do I put where, and

>which tape do I use to tape what?

>

>Don Dore

 

Well, since no one else replied, I'll help.  The method taught to me goes like this

 

1) cut out about 4 or 5 circular disks (2" in diameter).

2) place disks on top of each other like so

 

___________________________________

|                                  |

|__________________________________|

|                                  |

|__________________________________|

|                                  |

|__________________________________|

|                                  |

|__________________________________|

|                                  |

|__________________________________|

 

|----------------------2"---------------------------|

 

2b) (optional) I have epoxyed each disk together before, and it seems to make the whole device act like one unit.

     Your mileage may vary.

 

3) Tape with (strapping tape) together by wrapping around the the top so that a side view looks like this :

 

  ___________________________________

|            |      |                 |

|____________|  T   |_________________|

|            |  A   |                 |

|____________|  P   |_________________|

|            |  E   |                 |

|____________|      |_________________|

|            |      |                 |

|____________|      |_________________|

|            |      |                 |

|____________|______|_________________|

 

4) rotate the tip 90 degrees and tape again.

 

5) Now, from the top, the circle should have a cross going over it of strapping tape.

 

6) Attache the tip to the end of the rattan using several (2 to 4) or the top loops of strapping tape.

 

7) take the strapping tape and starting 2 or 3 inches from the end of the rattan, spiral the strapping tape up to the top of the thrusting tip.

 

8) spiral wrap down from the top of the thrusting tip.

 

9) Cover with duct tape (remembering to make the tip brightly colored if possible).

 

9) (optional, but very good).  Before covering with duct tape, cut 2 8" long x 2" wide strips of denim (say old blue jeans).  Like in step six, attach the strips over the top of the tip to the shaft to help provide lateral bend resistance.  Best results so far have been using this method.  Sir Asoph says that even with doing all of this he has to replace his every six months or so (but he uses them a LOT :-) )

 

If you need more help, feel free to e-mail me.

 

Jean Paul de Sens

Mooneschadowe...

 

 

Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:35:15 MST

From: Rod Jackson <culn97 at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: ANST - Spear Help

To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org

 

Try using the foam "fun noodles" that people play with

in the moat.

 

Cullinn

 

--- James Crouchet <jtc at io.com> wrote:

> Just one question: What kind of foam do I use?

>  

> > 1) cut out about 4 or 5 circular disks (2" in diameter).

>

> Dore

 

 

Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 23:36:43 MST

From: "Okami Sabishii" <okami69 at hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: ANST - Spear Help

To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org

 

My experience of Fun Noodles is that they aren't very sturdy foam.  They

tend to breakdown alot faster than other types of foam.  I would suggest

some form of camping bed roll foam.  You can usually find some blue colored

ones in most camping/sporting goods/Wal-Mart/K-mart types of stores.  Also

you can find green army bedrolls at army surplus stores.  Most foam rolls

cost about 10-15 dollars. I've gotten some used ones at army surplus for as

low as 2 dollars a roll.

 

Okami

Canton of Lindenwood

 

 

From: Chas <webmasterNOSPAM at historicgames.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Fencing Pikes?

Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 21:31:43 -0600

Organization: Rose & Pentagram

 

Drew Nicholson wrote:

> "James Koch" <alchem at en.com> wrote in message

> news:16cb0184.0404151005.7de394e5 at posting.google.com...

> > To Whom It May Concern,

> > >

> > I have just now checked the new improved and recently updated society

> > rapier approved weapons page.  I can find no mention of fencing pikes

> > or spears, but remember these being mentioned as under developement.

> > The reason I ask in this regard is that we have just now engineered a

> > workable fencing pike using one of our Safeflex rapier blades as a

> > point.  These blades are long enough to provide the give required when

> > using such a weapon and cheap enough to keep the cost low considering

> > pikes will be used only a few times per year. Who is currently

> > conducting experiments with this type of weapon?

> > >

> > Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)

>

> As far as I know, no one is.

>

> What are you mounting the "blade" on?

 

Do you mean actual pikes -as were used in blocks of pikemen? The British

"Sealed Knot Society" which portrays the English Civil War has been

simulating a "push of pike" for years. The pikes are 12 or 14-foot dowels

with just painted points on them. the "push of pike" begins with opposing

units approaching and briefly "fencing" -trying to push each other's pikes to

the side point-to-point from a safe distance. Then for the actual push of

pike everyone comes to a "port-arms" position and the pike blocks actually

physically meet and it turns into something like a rugby scrum. The first

side to break looses the push and must retreat and both units reform as

quickly as possible. In spite of what it sounds like they have a good safety

record outside of bruises or occasional sprained ankles. If anyone falls

down, the yell goes out "man down" and the push immediate breaks apart.

 

I had the chance to participate in this type of simulation in the battles of

Nasby and Worcester reentactments held in Staunton, Virgina a few years ago

by the U.S. 17th century reenactment community (with quite a few Sealed Knot

members in attendance as well). It was quite a rush, at one point I ended up

in the front of the block and when we met the opposing block I actually got

lifted off the ground for a moment until one of the sides broke up and the

push broke up. Do web searches for Sealed Knot Society sites or the English

Civil War Society of America and you can probably find the rules they use for

"fencing" or "pushes" with pikes if that is  the sort of thing you're asing

about.

 

Chas aka

Capt. Andrew Monro (ret.)

Colonel Gaffney's Rgt. of Pike & Shot

 

 

From: Carl Chipman <cchipman at nomadics.com>

Date: January 10, 2006 12:43:57 PM CST

To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>

Subject: RE: [Ansteorra] Rubber Ax Head?

 

Check here:

 

http://www.mandrakearmory.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&;Store_Code=MA&Category_Code=MsWp

 

Jean Paul

 

-----Original Message-----

I need some rubber Ax heads, to be honest I do not know what they are

made of but I just had a chance to use one and love them. I really would

like to know where I could buy them the person I got the loner from was

gifted the ax head and has no idea where to get one. If any one has some

info on where to get a couple could you please let me know I cannot seem

to find them online.

--

Suren Unegen (Majestic Fox)

Costal Region Siege Marshal

Silver Fox Squadron, Commanding

 

 

From: digigirl <digigirl at gmail.com>

Date: January 10, 2006 1:01:22 PM CST

To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Rubber Ax Head?

 

I know Anshelm Arms used to sell them (www.anshelmarms.com) but I've

been out of the loop for a while.

 

Ceinwen

 

 

From: Asoph Hearts <asophhearts at hotmail.com>

Date: January 10, 2006 5:41:30 PM CST

To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Rubber Ax Head?

 

Mandrake Armory has them.

 

www.mandrakearmory.com

 

The BEST customer service in the Known World!

 

Ritter Asoph

 

<the end>



Formatting copyright © Mark S. Harris (THLord Stefan li Rous).
All other copyrights are property of the original article and message authors.

Comments to the Editor: stefan at florilegium.org