paintg-f-msks-msg – 10/19/11
Discussions on whether to paint designs on fencing masks for SCA rapier combat.
NOTE: See also the files: merch-rapier-msg, Rapier-Armor-art, Square-Bucklr-art, Styles-Swrdpl-art, bucklers-msg, Ren-o-t-Sword-art, Rap-Cbt-S-Hst-art.
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From: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>;
To: Inc. Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>;
Subject: [Ansteorra] painting fencing masks
Sent: Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:21:49 PM
The subject of painting modern fencing masks used for SCA rapier combat has come up recently on the Trimaris list. The idea is apparently to paint a "face, an animal, of a helm" on the grill of the mask. One of the strong points of SCA vs. the LARP groups has been the ability to look for period examples and "see what they did", but I don't know that there are any equivalents.
I would be interested in hearing if this is done in your area and any opinions or ideas, pro or con, on this subject.
Stefan
--------
THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
From: Tim Matthews <albin_oil_de_larrun at yahoo.com>
Date: March 29, 2011 1:25:01 PM CDT
To: "ansteorra at lists ansteorra. org" <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>, "StefanliRous at austin.rr.com" <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] painting fencing masks
We have done that in adlersruhe for years..
Personally i have my device painted on... may not be period, but it is a great way to display heraldry on the field..
Ld. Albin Oil de Larrun Arbalest
From: J. C. Smith ispán <jsmithcsa at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [MR] painting fencing masks
Date: March 29, 2011 1:26:32 PM CDT
To: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
Not in my immediate area, but in my old shire in Drachenwald we had a rapier fighter who had a skull (or so it appeared) painted on his mask. It looked a lot better than a regular out-of-the-store fencing mask, IMHO.
Barcsi Janos
who moves and travels a lot
From: Chelsea Durham <baby_sis_83 at hotmail.com>
Date: March 29, 2011 1:28:43 PM CDT
To: <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] painting fencing masks
I've been informed that since the fencing mask is so obviously modern, painting it draws more attention to it. The only example I've seen of making the mask seem MORE period is Toshiro's mask painted in a kabuki style with a fur hood on the back.
-Lady Grainne Kathleen NicPadraig MacDaniel
From: Casey Weed <seoseaweed at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] painting fencing masks
Date: March 29, 2011 1:46:38 PM CDT
To: Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc. <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Purist here. To me the painted fencing mask is the rapier combat equivalent
of the pink stuffed animal crest on a spun-dome, bar-grill starter helmet
(attached with the prerequisite bunjee cord).
Entry costs of fencing helmets that approximate renaissance face protection
has dropped to an all time low (thank you, India). There's really no reason
not to spend the extra $60.
http://therionarms.com/reenact/therionarms_c1250.html $150
That's three twenty dollar bills and you don't have to sew anything; even if
you're as broke as a church mouse you could give plasma twice and you can
have some left over. How much is your time worth?
Sir D.
From: Bree Flowers <evethejust at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] painting fencing masks
Date: March 29, 2011 2:01:08 PM CDT
To: Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc. <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
<<< Purist here. To me the painted fencing mask is the rapier combat equivalent
of the pink stuffed animal crest on a spun-dome, bar-grill starter helmet
(attached with the prerequisite bunjee cord). >>>
This totally.
I understand the need for modern fencing masks, but it seems to me
like painting them will just encourage people to wear them longer,
rather than replacing them with something better. And like someone
else said, it draws attention to it. It's like people who spend lots
of time/money coming up with ways to hide/cover/paint dome tents when
there are plenty of affordable canvas options out there. Use the dome
while you have to, but accept it for what it is and replace it when
you can. I haven't seen a lot of dome-modification here (thankfully)
but I did see a bunch of it in other places I have lived, and it just
drew more attention to the modernity of the item in question.
When you *need* something for medical reasons (wheelchairs, glasses,
shoes with orthotics, and I'm sure there are plenty of other examples)
I totally believe in whatever modifications you want to try to make.
Not that you should feel obligated, I'm just saying it makes sense to
do what feels right for you. But when there are period options I don't
see any justification for modifying modern things, especially if it
doesn't get them to look any closer to being "right".
~Eve
From: Ceallach mac Donal <ceallach at dwarfworks.com>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Ansteorra Digest, Vol 59, Issue 28
Date: March 29, 2011 2:03:41 PM CDT
To: Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc. <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
<ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
What Avery said ;-} However, there are places that will sell you one
of those helms pre-modified for fencing but that does bump the price
to $200, which is the bottom end of the almost ready for the field
fencing helms (can't forget any needed padding and/or strapping.)
That being said there are a couple of vendors that have rapier ready
helms in the 200 - 250 range and a few more that go form 400 and up,
much like heavy helms. I've listed all that I've been able to find on
the internet at http://kelly.dwarfworks.com/sca/helms
Don Ceallach
On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 1:50 PM, Sean Hertzberg <colsith at gmail.com> wrote:
<< One problem with what you are proposing, Good Sir. That helmet is not
legal, as is. You still need to add the perf plate or somthing to the eye
slot. Now, that is not expensive and most people have someone around that
can help weld it in place or attach it somehow...
But as is, that is not a legal helmet.
Don Avery
Kingdom ER Rapier Marshal >>
<<< Entry costs of fencing helmets that approximate renaissance face protection
has dropped to an all time low (thank you, India). There's really no
reason not to spend the extra $60.
http://therionarms.com/reenact/therionarms_c1250.html $150
Sir D. >>>
From: Duncan Hepburn <duncan at stormypetrel.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] painting fencing masks
Date: March 29, 2011 2:29:08 PM CDT
To: Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc. <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
I like a good period kit as much as the next person... almost as much as I
like playing devil's advocate. >=)
A few points:
- The cost difference is much greater when you consider that these folks
*already* own the fencing masks, so the cost isn't mask vs. helm, it's paint
vs. helm.
- While we are talking about cost of equipment, I would say it is silly to
discard a piece of equipment for another while it is still fully
functioning. I now have a burgonet with perf faceplate to fence in, after
20+ years of fencing, only because the mask finally started to fail, and I
needed a new one.
- The items we are talking about are not intended to represent period
attire, they are safety equipment. As a matter of fact, since they are
safety equipment, maybe them being brightly painted isn't such a bad thing.
- While we can *mask* <g> our safety equipment into looking like period
attire, let's not forget it's purpose. They are worn on the field, during
combat, and removed and put away once the tournament is over. Not the same
thing as a baseball cap being used in place of a period hat.
- Plenty of senior fencers (sadly, I fall into that category now) still wear
masks, and painted or not, we overlook them.
- I know to the good knight's angst, the bar for SCA attire is set at "a
reasonable attempt". This includes nylon chairs, plastic tents, epee bell
guards, and tennis shoes. We cannot, while maintaining the open welcoming
access from the outside, ever hope to raise that bar.
If one has money falling out of the skies into their hands and wishes to
upgrade to a completely period kit, more power to them. I say though that if
we are going to focus our attention on getting anything more period, it
should be footwear. That is something that is not too expensive, that will
do a lot to making a kit more period on and off of the field.
Just random thoughts from an over-caffeinated individual,
Duncan Hepburn
From: Jim/Mathias <jsfrodo at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [MR] painting fencing masks
Date: March 29, 2011 2:38:40 PM CDT
To: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
There are some Atlantians with painted masks, but from my observations they're somewhat of a minority.
Mathias
From: Dave W <wiselaw at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] painting fencing masks
Date: March 29, 2011 3:19:06 PM CDT
To: Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc. <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Just a couple of observations:
<<< - While we are talking about cost of equipment, I would say it is silly to
discard a piece of equipment for another while it is still fully
functioning. I now have a burgonet with perf faceplate to fence in, after
20+ years of fencing, only because the mask finally started to fail, and I
needed a new one. >>>
I don't believe the suggestion is to toss out the masks, certainly they can
be made available to newbies to help make it even easier to get started (not
that anyone has to loan gear, but our folks are very generous about doing
so...). They can then move to better gear after they have had a chance to
develop their persona and learn more about the gear we use.
<<< If one has money falling out of the skies into their hands and wishes to
upgrade to a completely period kit, more power to them. I say though that if
we are going to focus our attention on getting anything more period, it
should be footwear. That is something that is not too expensive, that will
do a lot to making a kit more period on and off of the field. >>>
I often wonder how many folks do their 'SCA math'. It seems that I often
hear folks lament the high cost of getting started, or especially about the
cost of 'period gear', then turn around and see that same person burn
through a couple packs of smokes at every event or routinely crack out a
bottle of single malt scotch along with a cooler full of beer. While
everyone is certainly entitled to their own priorities, (and I certainly
enjoy a cider or two), I know they easily indulge enough in their poisons of
choice to pay for many an 'upgrade' to period gear. Just a matter of
setting priorities, but it makes sense to me to prioritize gear that looks
and works well for what we do...
Alexis
From: Elizabeth Crouchet <elizabeth at crouchet.com>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] painting fencing masks
Date: March 29, 2011 3:37:39 PM CDT
To: Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc. <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
I *have* saved up the monies to buy custom made period gear only to have to
replace it with another piece of custom made period gear that also does not
end up serving me or fitting me or functioning correctly. Then I have that
modified and it still does not serve. Then I try to make do and it is
counter productive.
Then I fall back on the tried and true and 'invisible" non period mask or
epee guard.
That done, I am hesitant to spend yet more money on yet one more piece of
period equipment that I cannot use, modify, fix or remake myself.
You will forgive the cider I drink at an event, that being the only cider I
have had or will have all month. Money is hard to come by with many other
expenses of life taking priority, not to mention the costs of just getting
to the events. Being at the event is a celebration and I often tend to
embellish that accomplishment with a little treat or two. That helps to keep
me going while I am pinching pennies back home.
If I stopped playing SCA for one year, I could save up enough money to buy a
better kit all around. But I would still be in the same boat as to how to
acquire it.
Acquiring the period equipment is an admirable pursuit but it is not as easy
or as cut and dried as many seem to think that it is. Money is not the only
hurdle for many. It is often confusing and difficult to find appropriate
equipment that you can be sure of, and to shell out your hard saved extra
$400 on a piece of hardware that is only maybe going to do it's job is hard
to do.
So, pursuing ways to make the mundane equipment less intruding is a good
idea. Exploring those ideas is a good thing. Not all of the ideas set forth
will be good ideas in the end, but discussing them is helpful to getting to
better ones. Spending more money is not always the best solution or even an
option.
Claire
From: Dante di Pietro <dante.di.pietro at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [MR] painting fencing masks
Date: March 29, 2011 3:01:33 PM CDT
To: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
Very, very, very few of the masks I have seen with things painted on
the mesh have looked good. The humanoid faces are almost always
especially bad. I find that barring a helmet/faceplate of some kind, a
nice outer hood covers the mask very well without the need for
additional adornment.
From: Tim Matthews <albin_oil_de_larrun at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Ansteorra Digest, Vol 59, Issue 28
Date: March 29, 2011 3:27:34 PM CDT
To: ansteorra at lists ansteorra. org <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>, (Ceallach) Kelly <ceallach at dwarfworks.com>
I was introduced to rapier as "it is italian street fighting"
There are no helmets in that.
A heavy fighter on the field is commonly identified by his painted shield. Whether you know his/ her name or not..
I am sorry but renaissance clothing does not identify the person. Since we cant see a face, and a buckler is really small, this is a good way to show who you are to onlookers..
From: Chelsea Durham <baby_sis_83 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Ansteorra Digest, Vol 59, Issue 28
Date: March 29, 2011 3:31:00 PM CDT
To: Inc. Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
<<< A heavy fighter on the field is commonly identified by his painted shield. Whether you know his/ her name or not..
I am sorry but renaissance clothing does not identify the person. Since we cant see a face, and a buckler is really small, this is a good way to show who you are to onlookers. >>>
Except that most people wear probably the same 2-3 outfits for fighting. I can pick most of my friends out of a crowd by what they're wearing. You can argue that it's easier to spot a device but really a mask isn't much bigger than a buckler.
-Lady Grainne Kathleen NicPadraig MacDaniel
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 16:01:33 -0400
From: Dante di Pietro <dante.di.pietro at gmail.com>
To: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
Cc: Atlantia maillist <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>
Subject: Re: [MR] painting fencing masks
Very, very, very few of the masks I have seen with things painted on
the mesh have looked good. The humanoid faces are almost always
especially bad. I find that barring a helmet/faceplate of some kind, a
nice outer hood covers the mask very well without the need for
additional adornment.
From: David Chessler <chessler at usa.net>
Subject: Re: [MR] painting fencing masks
Date: March 29, 2011 5:42:54 PM CDT
To: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>, Atlantia maillist <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>
I have seen a few viking era helms that are "reconstructed" to have brass
facial hair (eyebrows, mustache), and shaped major features (eyes, nose ,
mouth). There is evidence that late in our period, armor was painted, but no
examples have facial features.
There are a few people here in "north Atlantia" who paint their masks, or hire
it done. Mostly, they do not seem to be trying for representative art work. It
does have a practical advantage of keeping your opponent from reading your
eyes.
From: James Crouchet <james at crouchet.com>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] painting fencing masks
Date: March 29, 2011 6:00:48 PM CDT
To: Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc. <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
A personal armorer could resolve these issues, of course.
Fact is we are playing a game that was played by very rich men in period and
few of us have such resources. We have to be smarter and/or have more
do-it-yourself ability to get what we need.
That said, I would like to see more helms on the field, especially for
melee. When discussing engagement issues on point that comes up repeatedly
is that many people --including some doctors-- feel the back of the head is
insufficiently armored to be taking shots there. Nonetheless, accidents
happen, there are some circumstances where such a hit is legal and in
tournament (one on one) the back of the head is a totally legal (though
rare) target.
I wish we could get everyone switched over in the next couple of years but I
recognize that it is not that simple. OTOH the more rapier helms we buy the
simpler and cheaper it will become to get one.
I have a mask I use mostly for drills. I painted a mustache and eye patch on
it to play the part of captain somebody for a scenario. My opinion on
painting is that it can help set the mood or play the part. Stupid and
distracting choices here are similar to stupid and distracting costumes.
Christian Doré
From: Chris Zakes <dontivar at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] painting fencing masks
Date: March 29, 2011 6:12:11 PM CDT
To: Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc. <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
<<< The subject of painting modern fencing masks used for SCA rapier combat has come up recently on the Trimaris list. The idea is apparently to paint a "face, an animal, of a helm" on the grill of the mask. One of the strong points of SCA vs. the LARP groups has been the ability to look for period examples and "see what they did", but I don't know that there are any equivalents.
I would be interested in hearing if this is done in your area and any opinions or ideas, pro or con, on this subject.
Stefan >>>
The basic dilemma is this: To the best of our knowledge, fencing masks weren't developed until a century or two past the SCA's period. Nevertheless, SCA safety rules (and common sense) require proper face and head protection. So you're left with two choices, a modern fencing mask, or a rapier-legal period style helm.
Both options have problems. A fencing mask is, indeed, a glaring modernity on the field, but I'll ask the purists: is it any less anachronistic than a Norman or any other early-period fighter wearing a full helm--also required by SCA safety rules--instead of a pot-helm? And while period-style helms looks good, how often would a 16th century fighter be wearing *just* a helm along with "street clothes"?
As for painting them, personally I don't have a problem with it, although some other folks do. One painting option that hasn't been mentioned yet is using a flat black paint to make the grillwork easier to see through, so it looks less like a mask and more like a face.
-Tivar Moondragon
From: ylwrose2 at juno.com
Subject: Re: painted masks
Date: March 29, 2011 6:21:44 PM CDT
To: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
PAINT IT! ! ! The SCA has gotten too stuffy, and this would add a little fun to it. Check some of the photo archives and you will find my lovely face (literally) gracing the list field in the early 80's. She has pink cheeks, mauve lips, false eyelashes and hair...
Bns Francesca Laviana Sansovino, Dinosaur
From: ylwrose2 at juno.com
Subject: Re: painted masks
Date: March 29, 2011 7:04:04 PM CDT
To: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
<<< Did you paint on all the details or actually add false eyelashes and hair?
Stefan >>>
I bought long doll lashes and sewed them on. The hair is a partial wig I cut up and it is covered on the back by a 'french hood'. Most comments are "the (green) eyes follow you wherever you go" and " she talks but her lips don't move".
Francesca
From: Tim Matthews <albin_oil_de_larrun at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] painting fencing masks
Date: March 29, 2011 6:26:33 PM CDT
To: Inc.Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
--- On Tue, 3/29/11, Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com> wrote:
<<< If I remember, without going out and digging out my fencing
mask from doing some SCA rapier combat some ten years ago,
the wire mesh is black. I thought *all* fencing masks came
with the wire mesh painted black. Is this not true?
And as I think about it, mine may be a gloss black rather
than a flat black.
Stefan >>>
They come in colors now..Red, blue, black, and stainless..
Zen Warrior is one that carries colors..
Albin
From: Joe S <jjshafferjr at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [MR] painting fencing masks
Date: March 29, 2011 7:13:53 PM CDT
To: David Chessler <chessler at usa.net>
Cc: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>, Atlantia maillist <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>
Well, here's a late-period example of a helmet made to have facial features: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/the-jousting-accident-that-turned-henry-viii-into-a-tyrant-1670421.html?action=Gallery&;ino=4.
It was a gift from Maximillian I to Henry VIII.
However, I don't really think thats going to be anything similar to the effect you're going to get from painting your fencing mask.
-Gawin Kappler
On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 6:42 PM, David Chessler <chessler at usa.net> wrote:
<<< I have seen a few viking era helms that are "reconstructed" to have brass
facial hair (eyebrows, mustache), and shaped major features (eyes, nose ,
mouth). There is evidence that late in our period, armor was painted, but no
examples have facial features.
There are a few people here in "north Atlantia" who paint their masks, or hire
it done. Mostly, they do not seem to be trying for representative art work. It
does have a practical advantage of keeping your opponent from reading your
eyes. >>>
From: Scott 'Lorccan' Lee <lorccan at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Gleann Abhann] painting fencing masks
Date: March 29, 2011 10:32:51 PM CDT
To: Stefan li Rous <stefanlirous at austin.rr.com>
It's a common sight at Estrella & Great Western War - rapier fighters from Caid, Atenveldt, & the Outlands often do it. I've seen the insignia of Caidan fighting units, a Cheshire Cat face, masquerade-style masks, and other designs painted on masks on the field, but no historical references I am aware of. It can look very cool, but the more detailed designs attract attention to the modern mesh, because of the way it breaks up the design. Simple, bold designs (like the insignia of the White Star or the Crimson Spade) are much better in this regard.
- THL Lorccán hua Conchobair, formerly of Caid, in Gleann Abhann for less than a month now.
From: knightly1 at suddenlink.net
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] painting fencing masks
Date: March 29, 2011 11:04:26 PM CDT
To: Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc. <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
I saw a pic of a guy that painted his mask like a helm
http://www.jmtimeless.com/SCA-Events/Gulf-Wars-XIX/Champions-Tourney-Rapier/11591159_HHLAm#816806897_gNxAG
so i have always liked the idea but then i am the rabid chihuahua if anyone remembers me.
Achillies
Michael & Jennifer Dudley - J&M's Timeless Photography
Subject: Re: painting fencing masks
Posted by: "Aron the Dane" savalanst at yahoo.com savalanst
Date: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:51 am ((PDT))
One of Small Gray Bear's former members, Lord Blars, was excellent at mask-painting. He preffered Japanese designs based on the 'false faces' on Samurai-style helms. If I remember correctly, he also painted one for Sir Jon the Tall.
Another former member of SGB, Lord Pete the Bos'n, also has a painted mask. His is sort of a pirate death's head look, with an eyepatch. It never failed to get laughs and smiles.
I have often considered painting my badge onto the face of my mask. I've just never gotten around to actually doing it.
There is a slight advantage to having a painted mask. Your opponent will tend to focus on the painted image rather than on your face underneath it. This can keep he or she from noticing where you are looking or picking up other subtle clues about what you are about to do.
As for making them period, there really isn't anything you can do to make a fencing mask period, since they are a post-period invention. We wear them purely for safety. We prefer actual fencing helms, but they are expensive and hard to find. Covering them up with hoods or half-helms as much as possible is often done too. I think painting them is another good way to draw attention away from the modernity of the fencing mask.
Thanks for letting us know about this, Stefan. I'm going to pass your message along to the GA Rapier list so more fencers will see it.
-Aron
From: stephen cavano <stephenbridewell at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [MR] painting fencing masks
Date: March 30, 2011 6:37:08 AM CDT
To: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
The modern type of fencing mask that we use was invented in 1780, so the best way to make it period is to ignore it.
We are thought to be be wearing "shirt and hosen" although advances in garb over the last two decades should be the garb you are wearing as worn, not as puncture resistant armor.
All of the painted masks I have seen are a personal affectation or badge and are more SCAdian than an attempt at being more in period.
If you wanted to find something "as they would have done it" for rapier, I would suggest a padded jack.
Stephen
From: Bree Flowers <evethejust at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] painting fencing masks
Date: March 30, 2011 3:53:06 AM CDT
To: Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc. <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Duncan Hepburn <duncan at stormypetrel.org> wrote:
<<< I like a good period kit as much as the next person... almost as much as I
like playing devil's advocate. >=)
A few points:
- The cost difference is much greater when you consider that these folks
*already* own the fencing masks, so the cost isn't mask vs. helm, it's paint
vs. helm. >>>
Or paint vs not paint. Some of us feel that paint just serves to call
attention to something really modern. I can overlook modern things
left in their natural form, but find that colorful attempts to hide or
disguise them often *makes* me notice it. I'd give examples of some of
the things I've seen over the years that I found really jarring, but
I'd hate for people to take it as inspiration.
If expense is your only concern, I'd argue that my "don't paint it"
option is in fact the least expensive :)
~Eve
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:43:26 +0000 (UTC)
From: medb.duinfeichin at comcast.net
To: outlands at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [outlands] Fencing question (fwd)
Regarding the question of period examples, I believe there are two different questions to be addressed here. First - would masks have been painted in period? According to some (very brief) research, the fencing mask was invented in 1780 by the French master La Boessiere. Therefore masks would not have been painted because they had not yet been invented.
So the question I think you need to address is whether or not FACES would have been painted in period.
The convention behind the armoring is that the fighters are all dressed in their street clothes. Face painting conventions, or the lack thereof, would depend on the culture and time frame of the particular individual. According to popular myth, as best illustrated by the movie Braveheart, the Scots painted their faces blue for their battles against the English. I couldn't vouch for the accuracy of this depiction; I think it was the Picts who actually did this but I'm sure someone out there has done research into this subject and could much better inform us. But let us posit the following: 1. the Scots did indeed paint their faces during SCA defined time periods; 2. the persona is Scottish and is living during a time when such face painting would have taken place; 3. the persona would have fought with the rapier during his or her time period. If all three of these things come together, it could be considered historically accurate for the individual to paint his/her fencing mask .
The question of historical veracity having been addressed, I would also say that I have seen various Outlands rapier fighters with masks painted in this fashion.
Medb Duinfeichin
Caerthe
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