raingear-msg

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raingear-msg - 6/5/01

Period raingear. waterproofing cloth. Felting or fulling wool for

waterproofing.

NOTE: See also these files: felting-msg, cloaks-msg, fasteners-msg, headgear-msg, pants-msg, shoes-msg, p-shoes-msg.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,

Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous

Stefan at florilegium.org

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From: krogers at moons.sim.es.com (Keith Rogers)

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.textiles,rec.org.sca

Subject: Weaving a rain cloak

Date: 1 Nov 1993 13:33:27 -0700

Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, Utah

Summary: How to weave a rain cloak?

Keywords: weaving, rain cloak

I would like some input on how to weave a reasonably rain proof full

length cloak. By that I mean something like what a sturdy one of

antiquity would have been like without resorting to modern "cheats" by

coating with some kind of fabric guard or lining it with GoreTex, etc.

I don't have any weaving equipment yet other than books which I've

been reading for several months now, so I'm a complete beginner in

real experience though conversant in most of the concepts. I know

that a servicable cloak will be one of my first major projects. I

also know that since it's the first real project that means I'll get

to do another one a couple years later when I know what I'm doing to

avoid all the mistakes I'll make on the first one, but that's a

different matter...

My current vague ideas are to weave a very heavy warp faced cloth out

of the oiliest dark colored wool available with the width being great

enough for a one-piece garment. Reasoning is as follows: the warp

will be running vertically on me so a warp face will enhance water to

run down and off. Heavy and oily wool are obvious points. One piece

construction (other than the hood) eliminates vulnerable seams for

water penetration. The dark color is my preference - black would be

best.

Due to my shoulder dimension I'll need a loom which can weave cloth

somewhat wider than the standard 45" if I want one piece construction.

Rather than resort to double width weaving, which looks like a real

hassle, I'll make (I'm building my own stuff) a wider loom. I know

people say 45" is about as wide as you can comfortably weave but I'll

bet these peole don't have 6'6" arm spans either; I expect I can weave

8-12" wider cloth at the same comfort level as they at 45". This is

assuming I can get wider reeds, or splice two together for my loom.

Shoot down or modify any or all of my ideas. Add new ones as fit.

I'm still in the theoretical phase as I won't have a full set of

weaving equipment built for another 6 months or so. Prime concern is

for the finished cloak to be serviceible in rainy and snowy weather.

The look should be plain, even rustic, not lordly. I'm not an SCAdian

but it should be something one of them with a lower social class

persona, say a reasonably well-to-do blacksmith, would own which is

why I'm cross posting this to the SCA news group. I don't care if I

smell like an old goat in it :-)

Any comments are welcome.

Keith Rogers

krogers at moons.sim.es.com

From: haslock at rust.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock)

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.textiles,rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Weaving a rain cloak

Date: 2 Nov 1993 00:53:01 GMT

Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - DECwest Engineering

Keywords: weaving, rain cloak

Greetings from Fiacha,

Primarily to Keith Rogers,

We had a long discussion about woolen sails a while that was enlightening

and potentially relevant.

1. Forget warp faced cloth and ignore seams. If you make a one piece cloak,

it will be semi circular and drape on the bias at the soulders. The

direction of the fabric will change front to back. Your theoretical

advantage of warp faced cloth will exist at the front and nowhere else.

To get this notional advantage would require piecing the cloak together

and so having lots of seams.

Thus it is a waste of time to produce warp faced cloth.

2. While it is possible that the seams will leak more than anywhere else,

it is not a relevant consideration. I assume that you are thinking of the

behaviour of modern, waterproof, fabrics where the stiching of the seam

breaks the integrity of the fabric and so lets water through at that point.

Period fabrics are not, in general, waterproof. The stiching cannot break

a non-existant integrity.

3. The exception is oilcloth, a cloth saturated in oil to the point where

water can no longer pentrate. Seams in oilcloth end up being waterproof

because the oil migrates into the seam thread too.

On the other hand, you do not want to make an oilcloth cloak. Oilcloth is

a serious fire hazard, quite apart from the oil migrating into whatever

you are wearing underneath the cloak and ruining in.

4. The objections to oilcloth apply to any form of grease in the wool.

5. Also, when the cloak gets warm, it will have a distinct aroma, with little

chance of the aroma being considered to be pleasant.

6. The grease would need to be reapplied at frequent intervals. The mongols

used milk to waterproof their felts and replaced the milk every three

rainfalls.

So, what is the alternative. A well to do blacksmith should be able to afford

a leather cloak for foul weather. A sheepskin with the fleece on the inside,

or a series of such sewn together would be excellent. The leather could even

be oiled (lightly) and the fleece would buffer the oil from your clothes.

If you must weave something, then go ahead. Weave as tightly as you can and

then felt the resulting cloth. Brush the surface to raise a pile and then shear

it as close to the fabric as possible. Do this two or three times. The felting

will thicken the fabric and close up the holes between the weap and the weft.

While the resulting fabric will not be water proof, it will shed the majority

of any rail. Add a loosely woven liner and very little of the absorbed rain

will migrate into your clothes. Remember that the primary advantage of woolen

fabric is that it will keep you warm even when it is wet.

In bad weather, you should wear a detachable hood on top of the cloak. This

will provide an extra layer or two of fabric across the shoulders, usually

the first place for rain to soak through.

Although the most common weave for a cloak is tabby, a 1/2 or a 2/2 twill would

be perfectly reasonable. Consider weaving a houndstooth check or a herringbone

or a birds eye twill. Lack of status is not an excuse for poor clothes.

Practical considerations for loom design. Reeds can be obtained in any length

you might deisre and tend to sell by the foot. The practical limit on loom

size is not your shoulders but the size of the room where it will live. The

limiting factor is usually the size of the room where the loom wull live. You

need to be able to get to all parts at any time. The tends to mean 3' foot

clearance on all four sides. Your design may let you block off one side but

floor space is still a consideration. Mounting a fly shuttle system to cope

with a wide design may be practical but will a foot on each side for the

shuttle boxes (the early period solution was to put a shuttle thrower on

either side of the loom as well as the weaver who worked the pedals and the

reed).

Regardless of the width of the loom, you should also expect the cloth to lose

width in shrinking (even without the felting steps). A single piece cloak

would need to be as wider as you are tall (to allow for a hem and a neck

opening, plus at least 20% for shrinkage. For me this would seem to require

a 75" to 80" loom (making the loom 8' wide overall and needing at least 11'x12'

of floor space). I would rather weave length and piece the cloak together.

I hope you build your loom and tell us how it worked out. By the way, do you

have anyone spinning the yarn for you yet? Getting the wool spun is a whole

nother problem.

Fiacha

From: karplus at cse.ucsc.edu (Kevin Karplus)

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.textiles,rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Weaving a rain cloak

Date: 2 Nov 1993 03:34:34 GMT

Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz

A densely woven oily wool cloak should shed a fair amount of rain, but

will never be completely water-proof. There is a Irish design that has

locks of wool hanging out the top surface of the cloak, providing a

thick surface for shedding rain. I suspect that it will shed rain

longer, and be warmer when wet, but weigh a lot. The Japanese straw

raincoats also work on the principle of having a fabric close to the

body covered by a very long "nap" that sheds water.

You have to pay particular attention to the seams, since that is

where the cloack will leak first. Shoulder seams are probably not a

good idea in a cloak that you want to be water-resistant, unless you

have a separate hood that covers the shoulders (a good idea in any

case). Brushing the wool to form a nap may be a good idea, but be

sure the nap runs down, not up---you want to shed water, not catch it.

If you have a 6'6" reach, you should be able to weave about 6" wider

than me. I have no trouble with a 45" loom, but can't weave 60".

You should be able to do at least 50", but 60" is questionable, unless

you sit with your chest right against the breast beam, and the fell

line real close to the beam also.

Long reeds are available. I even have an 8 foot reed for my big loom.

If you are building your own loom, you almost certainly have the

skills needed to build a fly-shuttle. Look around for drawings or

plans, or look at the flyshuttles on existing looms. Not only do fly

shuttles greatly increase the width you can weave, but they usually

make for more even selvedges and faster weaving (if you have a good

end-feed shuttle). Of course, if you are trying for a medieval

re-creation, fly shuttles are out, since they were invented in the

mid-1700s. But I suspect that a lot of your loom parts are going to

be that modern, or more so, so rejecting flyshuttles may be a little

too purist.

Kevin Karplus karplus at ce.ucsc.edu

From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray)

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.textiles,rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Weaving a rain cloak

Date: 2 Nov 93 10:05:44

Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK.

Fiacha said

"you need to be able to get to all parts at any time, this tends to

mean 3' fott clearance on all four sides"

For large floor looms, if you are willing to crawl around inside the

loom you don't need clearance outside. i have an old Andrew loom,

(floor loom with overslung batten) The loom occupies something like a

five foot cube. The left side is six inches from a wall, (which just

gives me room to draw the curtains between loom and wall) The right

side is touching a chest of drawers for the back two feet. The back of

the loom is four inches clear of the wall (which just gives room to

extract the pegs holding the warp beam in) The front of the loom

touches my bed which I sit on to weave (the bed is unusually high, so

works OK as a loom bench)

To further add to the crowding, I have fixed a shelf to the top of the

loom at the back which takes my boxes of yarn, shuttles, spare reeds,

hooks etc.

The bedroom looks very crowded, but it is perfectly possible to thread

up the loom by sitting on a stool with its legs stuck between the

treadles. If threads break I crawl underneath the warp at the back

and fix them from below. Similarly if I want to adjust the tie up I

crawl inside the loom and fix it from inside. I suspect that I would

have to climb into the loom to get at parts even if I had a mass of

space around it, though it would probably be easier being able to

crawl in one side and out the other instead of having to reverse!

I have a few woolen cloaks, some are dark age square types and some

more modern tailored designs. I have found that a heavy fulled wool

will keep the rain off almost indefinately. I have not found seams a

problem, but I used run and fell type seams, (the sort you get on the

outside legs of jeans) Maybe this is a particularly waterproof type of

seam as it has many layers of cloth.

I have a viking style tent (An A frame design with the poles made of

wooden beams), this tent has a woolen cover and has stood up to a

force seven gale, with accompanying rain. It was pitched inside

Harlech castle, in a particularly dumb location: the rain and wind

whipped off the sea, hit the front wall of the castle, came over it, and

was funnelled into the area by the castle gate. Guess where we pitched

the tent? that's right bang in the middle of the wind tunnel by the

castle gate. The relevance of all this to cloaks is that the tent

cover was heavy wool which was fulled (felted) on one side. Inside the

tent was completely dry. The gale carried on overnight and got through

some of the modern tents to soak their occupants.

It looked as though the wool might have been acting as a wick, drawing

the water to ground, you could touch the insid eof the tent without

water coming through.

The woolen cloth the tent was made of had never been washed so it

probably had some oil left from the cloths production, but it

certainly wasn't dripping in oil. A friend of mine has a guernsey

jumper which is oiled wool. The jumper doesn't smell or shed oil, but

he claims it is waterproof. I don't know what the oil used is. One of

my square capes has been washed often enough to lose any traces of oil

the wool may have contained and is still up to an hour in the rain, (I

haven't tried it for longer) so I suspect that heavy wool is so

waterproof on its own that you don't need to add much oil (unlike

cotton which needs to be almost dripping in oil or wax to be proofed)

I would definately recommend twill weaves not plain tabby as twill

gives you a denser weave. If you are contemplating a seperate hood I

would suggest trying to weave that first so that you can make your

first learning mistakes on a smaller piece and waste less time and

yarn.

The irish cloaks with locks of wool woven in are still worn by

shepherds in other areas of Europe, Apparently you can stay out as

long as the sheep do and stay dry. locks of wool are taken from the

raw fleece and threaded into the warp along with the weft. On designs

I have seen they are not threaded into every single row. there was a

poster on this group who had woven a sample like this. Apparently it

is incredibly slow and probably not good as a first project.

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.textiles,rec.org.sca

From: kreyling at lds.loral.com (Ed Kreyling 6966)

Subject: Re: Weaving a rain cloak

Keywords: weaving, rain cloak

Organization: Loral Data Systems

Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 14:03:10 GMT

In article <2b3rqn$7r5 at moons.sim.es.com> krogers at moons.sim.es.com writes:

>I would like some input on how to weave a reasonably rain proof full

>length cloak. By that I mean something like what a sturdy one of

>antiquity would have been like without resorting to modern "cheats" by

>coating with some kind of fabric guard or lining it with GoreTex, etc.

>My current vague ideas are to weave a very heavy warp faced cloth out

>of the oiliest dark colored wool available with the width being great

>enough for a one-piece garment. Reasoning is as follows: the warp

>will be running vertically on me so a warp face will enhance water to

>run down and off. Heavy and oily wool are obvious points. One piece

>construction (other than the hood) eliminates vulnerable seams for

>water penetration. The dark color is my preference - black would be

>best.

>Shoot down or modify any or all of my ideas. Add new ones as fit.

>Any comments are welcome.

>--

>Keith Rogers

>krogers at moons.sim.es.com

Greetings Keith,

Here is a tidbit to add to your pool of information on historical waterproofing.

In Early America (Pre-Rev. war) the Eastern Longhunters used boiled Linseed Oil

to waterproof backpacks, rifle cases, tents and sleepingbags. Also Kapotes are

made from wool blankets and do a fairly good job of repelling water.

Erik.

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Ed Kreyling | Master Erik of Telemark O.L.,O.P.

kreyling at world.lds.loral.com | Shire of Brineside Moor

Sarasota,Fl. USA | Kingdom of Trimaris, SCA

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Newsgroups: rec.crafts.textiles,rec.org.sca

From: jill at super.org (Amelia J. Scott-Piner)

Subject: Re: Weaving a rain cloak

Keywords: weaving, rain cloak

Organization: Supercomputing Research Center (Bowie, MD)

Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 14:50:54 GMT