patterns-msg - 1/9/08 Sources for clothing patterns. Altering mundane patterns. NOTE: See also the files: clothing-FAQ, clothing-bib, clothing-books-msg, cotehardies-msg, Houppelande-art, sewing-msg, clothng-forms-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Gentle lords and ladies, The best pattern I have found for a coif/hood for rapier combat is the head for the rabbit/cat/bear costume (it comes in adult sizes) that Simplicity makes. I recommend adding a few inches to the overlap under the chin and a collar to tuck it securely into the jacket or vest. I hope this helps. Gwenhwyfar Lann ni Rodhri (Jennifer H. Varner) <Z4646595 at SFAUSTIN.BITNET> From: daemon at tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Admin) Date: 7 May 90 08:55:30 GMT Organization: Society for Creative Anachronism Greetings to those Gentles on the Rialto. Gloves: Milady, An Excellent Pattern Exists, It is a Vogue Pattern in a Prom accesories Set, I have seen the pattern echoed ina pattern set given to me on period Gloves, so it is a reasonable one, Gloves having beena nemesis of mine for years... -Wraith Carolingia, East Kingdom. A.S. (God only knows) From: EXPOTECH at applelink.apple.com ("Expotech, Aimee Moran,VCA") Date: 11 Jul 90 03:54:00 GMT Organization: Society for Creative Anachronism Greetings to the Rialto from Gwynnyd of York, on this, the Tenth day of July. Costumer news flash! Both McCalls and Butterick currently have patterns that are nearly perfect Tudor and Elizabethan dresses. The seaming on these is *not* princess. They both have the proper straight seams up the side-fronts with stomacher-like pieces in the center. Butterick 4563, has a long pointed front stomacher, suitable for Elizabethan styles. McCalls 3490 has a shorter point in front like the earlier Tudor styles. Both come in three-size sets,for maximum group use. To make usable, shorten the waist to natural waistline, square the neckline, and fill in the back (which is a deep V in both paterns). Skirts can be used as they are. Add gorp (i.e.-suitable trim), lace up the back or sides, and voila - late period costume! even for the pattern drafting impaired like me. I made mine with plastic needlepoint canvas as the stiffening in the stomacher - worked great. Just about the right amount of flex. Has holes for ventilation. Can be washed. Who could ask for more? (OK, so I promise never to enter the plastic in the A&S competitions.) In service to the Society (if not necessarily THE DREAM(tm)), I remain Gwynnyd of York Carol Lynn Household of the Foundering Fen Grosse Pointe Park, MI Middle expotech at applelink.apple.com From: data at er3.rutgers.edu (Rosemary Goodheart) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Medieval Pattern Needed!! Date: 11 Oct 1994 03:40:23 -0400 Organization: Rutgers University craig_polson at radius.com (Craig Polson) writes: >As an aside, what do people think of the McCall's pattern #6096? Good as >is? Needs modifications? Really lame? Just curious....(although one >problem I see already is that it's called Medieval Magic when the outfits >seem to me like they're more renaissance...) Thanks! >-Willow (Craig's wife) I use this pattern myself, and you're right, it's more Elizabethan than anythinanything else! (At least the dress with the puffs on top of the sleeves is.) If you are using this dress, here are the alterations I recommend: 1) The pattern is cut very large, so take it in to fit your body. And forget the boning... it's painful and does absolutely nothing. 2) If you want a bum roll, don't use the one in the pattern; it's shaped wrong. Bum rolls should be crescent-shaped. 3) The skirt is big enough to put a farthingale (hoop skirt) under. 4) Drop the neckline in the front by determining where the shoulders join the front, then scooping down lower in the area where the shoulders _don't_ touch the front. (This takes some effort; make a practice one first) 5) With a _lot_ of effort you can slash the sleeves...It looks incredible, but will take you forever. 6) Consider splitting the skirt down the front and wearing with a fancy underskirt. Just use the skirt part of the pattern to make the underskirt, with a drawstring waist, and only use your facy fabric for the front panel. You can save lots of money by using cheap fabric in the back of the underskirt, where no one will ever see it. By the way, if anyone in the Settmour Swamp area in the East Kingdom has seen a lady in a black and red, slashed sleeved, hoop-skirted Elizabethan gown, that was me, and I used this pattern to make the dress! Good luck!! -Rosemary -- Rosemary Goodheart YYY YYY data at eden.rutgers.edu | |YYYYY| | at )--->----;----- |_|__n__|_| From: nataliae at aol.com (Natalia E) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Cloaks Date: 15 Nov 1994 22:45:04 -0500 There is a Very Easy Very Vogue 7110 pattern for a woman's cloak, which works perfectly fine for a simple cloak pattern. I made both my lord's and my own cloak from it and I just learned how to sew this year. Try it out and you might find it will be just right. Good luck. Nataliia From: connect at aol.com (CONNECT) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: REQ: Easy Garb Patterns Date: 30 Nov 1994 10:00:25 -0500 debra at hp1.ep.cursci.com (Debra Cebulski) writes: I am a newbie in the Barony of Carolingia and I need some easy patterns (Vogue, Simplicity, etc.) for garb. --- Good My Lady, I can not give you specific pattern numbers, but hopefully can offer you some help in finding what you need. If you just want simple looking garb, try this: find a skirt pattern that is very full, like a full circle. Usually, this is done with what is called a gore. The pattern piece is cut to look like an A-shape if you fold it out flat. Next, find a peasant blouse pattern, either as a peasant blouse pattern or as a clown costume. Just cut off the clown pattern at the hip. This gets you the shirt and skirt. If you want a bodice, you can make one by altering a vest pattern, but that can be trickier. It should be doable by a beginner, but you need to be clear on what you're doing, because you'll be altering the lines a little.(Shortening the length of the vest, possibly, depending on the pattern you buy.) You can't use darts if you want to be authentic. Another thing to take into account, don't buy any prints. Try to stick with cotton blends in solids, or in patterns that are actually woven into the fabric. Muslin is good, and cheap too. <grin> Wash everything before you cut, too. If you're looking for male garb, there's a set of instructions available from a place called Rainments. The pattern is called Drafting and Constructing a Simple Doublet and Trunkhose of the Spanish Renaissance. I don't know the complexity level of this pattern, but perhaps someone else knows. Rainments can be reached via email at 72437.674 at compuserve.com. Another book I'd recommend is Elizabethan Costuming for 1550-1580 by Janet Winter and Carolyn Savoy. This is assuming you're interested in late SCA-period clothing. If not, just ignore this. <grin> Best of luck to you...I am coming off the newbie stage to just the beginner. ;) Pattie Rayl From: mcfee at apsicc.aps.edu (Karl von Schattenburg / Chuck Wilson) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Puffy sleeves Date: 6 Dec 1994 05:14:07 GMT Organization: Albuquerque Public Schools, Albuquerque, NM, USA In article <abasu.786662616 at atl1>, abasu at atl1.america.net (Asok K. Basu) writes: >Hi, I'm trying to get shirts that have the puffy sleeves >common in Shakespearean plays and other plays of >the time. I think they're called Juliette sleeves. Specifically, I >need white and black colors, and maybe green and brown. If you've >seen the movie "Interview with the Vampire", then you'll know >what kind of shirts I'm talking about. I'd prefer they have real >buttons, instead of threading for lacing the shirt up. If anyone has any >information about where I can get this type of clothing, please let me know. >My e-mail address is : abasu at america.net. Thank you. Greetings and Salutations! It's unclear from your letter whether you want to make tehm or buy them. If you want to buty then, there are ads in _TI_. If you want to make them, and you need a pattern, a simple peasant shirt pattern can be found at your local fabric store. If it's not labeled as a peasant shirt, check in the Halloween costume patterns. You xcan have real buyttons, but use the shank-style, as they're more period. If you want tro explore this period a little more, a good resource for the beginner is _Elizabethan Costuming_ by Janet Winter and Carolyn Savoy. Available in ads in _TI_. Clarice From: iys6lri at mvs.oac.ucla.edu (Lori Iversen) Newsgroups: alt.sewing,rec.org.sca Subject: Re: costume patterns Date: 7 Feb 1995 20:03:53 GMT Organization: ucla ches at io.com (ches) says: >Cheryl Stavis (CherylA at ix.netcom.com) wrote: >> ...I'm looking for costume sources other >> than folkwear of past patterns. I'm especially interested in Reniassance >> costumes. I've never made my own patterns, so pre-drawn patterns would >> be best, but I'll take any help I can get! >> Thank You. >> cheryla at ix.netcom.com > >If you are lucky enough to have a Barnes and Noble Book store near by go >there and order Patterns for Theatrical Costumes by Katherine Strand >Holkeboer isbn 0-89676-125-8. [small snip of where-to-find-it]. > >Ciao >Ches Alexis here! Holkeboer would be my first suggestion too. You don't mention how advanced a seamstress you are, but you might also want to try "Patterns of Fashion," by Janet Arnold (who did the costumes for the BBC "Elizabeth R."). It's a three-book series; you'll want the first one (with the maroon cover), covering 16th- and 17th-century garb. Arnold has essentially dissected actual clothing from the period and drafted patterns based on those pieces. I made a pair of pluderhosen for my SCA brother from the Nils Sturtevant pattern; they were really easier than they looked but they did break (count 'em) eighteen heavy-duty needles on an industrial machine. And they looked great (nobody had ever seen butt-hugging slops before!). I also attempted the Velvet Dress with the Big Hanging Sleeves (I forget who wore it originally); it didn't turn out quite as well, but then I only gave myself 24 hours to make it (it *looked* impressive but didn't fit quite right). Arnold only gives the patterns with notes about what trim went where and where the pleats went, etc. So if you have good engineering instincts the patterns in her books are definitely do-able. Best of luck! Alexis Vladescu Lori Iversen WyvernHo-ette (IYS6LRI at mvs.oac.ucla.edu) Altavia, CAID The Valley, CA From: odlin at reed.edu (Iain Odlin) Newsgroups: alt.sewing,rec.org.sca Subject: Re: costume patterns Date: 8 Feb 1995 17:24:34 GMT Alexis suggests, as so many do, Janet Arnold's books, "Patterns of Fashion", to which I add: A caveat: Arnold makes a number of glaring mistakes and generally doesn't provide enough info on the garb she depicts to reconstruct it accurately (check the furred gown, for a quick example). And, despite the title, the book really isn't about reconstructing garments. It's more a picture book about what exists still. So, if you are going to use it as a source for patterns, be sure to also get ahold of "The Annotated Arnold," available from Raiments (who advertise in TI). It adds some invaluable info that Arnold leaves out. It doesn't help much for reconstructing either, but it points out multitudinous grevious errors on Arnold's part which helps immensely. (I spent three days trying to reconstruct one of the sleeves she depicted completely incorrectly, for example. "The Annotated Arnold" showed me exactly what was going wrong.) Good luck. ------------------------- Iain Odlin, odlin at reed.edu ------------------------- 42 Clifton Street, Portland ME 04101 From: sniderm at mcmail2.cis.McMaster.CA (Mike Snider) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: cotehardies (was Searching for Japanese Garb) Date: 3 Apr 1995 13:12:29 -0400 Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. There is a lot of controversy about princess seams versus running all the pannels from the shoulder when constructing a cotehardie. Both have reliable documentation behind them. I do mine from the shoulder in the manner of the Herjolfsnes finds. (See Buried Norsemen at Herfolfsnes, post me if you need an ISBN) One of the best ways to make the pattern, however, is with duct tape. Put on an old tee-shirt and have a friend wrap your torso tightly with the tape. Mark the seams and cut tourself out of it. Spread the pannels flat and regularize the pannels so they are symetrical. Flare the pannels from the hips to give yourself as much fullness as you can. After the garment is constructed, put it on inside out and take in the seams so it fits snuggly. This is a quickie description, but I hope it helps. I have made several cotehardies this way with considerable success. Good Luck and post me directly if I can help you futher with documentation. Elizabeth Cadfan From: jahugi at xmission.xmission.com (John-H) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: cotehardie patterns? Date: 21 Apr 1995 22:28:40 -0600 ABLockwood (ablockwood at aol.com) wrote: : I am looking for a pattern for a womans cotehardie that would be fairly : easy to fit and construct, something beyond a 3-inch-square diagram with : directions to just cut it out and sew it together... : Any help would be appreciated. Please e-mail me at ABLockwood at aol.com, : because I am not always able to read the Rialto... : -Ashley Lockwood : (tentatively Alienora) I have a pattern for Cotehardies & Sideless Surcoats, 14th & 15th C. This pattern is from Mediaeval Miscellanea, called Period Patterns no. 21. The sizes are 6-20, but be sure to measure for the correct size! (Learned the hard way) Unfortunately, I don't have an address for the pattern. I bought it at an Estrella War a couple of years ago. I don't know if I've helped you any, but good luck! Ethereal O. Trewren /Shire of Cote du Ciel /Atenveldt Janice Hugie <jahugi at xmission.com> The following information I retrieved off an Elizabethian Costuming WWW page on 5/4/95. Stefan li Rous Some Patterns Which Work --------------------------------------------------------------------------- These are standard patterns which are close enough to period to be easily altered to suit. There are also custom patterns for period clothing. These custom patterns can best be ordered from specialty sewing shops; try your yellow pages for one near you. Some of these patterns may be out of production. Bodice Adult: McCall's 5064 - Close up CF V more, alter neckline, no collar, take dats in on pattern, no tabs, no tie back, raise armhole underarm. Vogue 1000 - basic fitting pattern, use no darts Child: Butterick 6932 - View A, change W in front to a V, lacing not buttons, scoop neckline Skirt Adult: Vogue 1723 or 9882 - lengthen hem. McCall's 4798 - View A, lengthen hem, no pocket. Simplicity 7561 View 3 or 7021 View 2 - lengthen hem, elasticize waist or lacing. Child: McCall's 6012 - View B lower to ankle length Chemise or Bag Shirt Adult: McCall's 4897 - View A. McCall's 5993 - Shorten cuff to less than 1 inch. Simplicity 9162 - View 3 with View 2 ruffle. Child: Butterick 6730 - make sleeves long Simplicity 8943 - View 4, elasticize wrists, cut to blouse length McCall's 6012 - View B Jerkin Adult: Butterick 4484 - no pockets, straight waist, lace closure. Child: Butterick 6605 - lengthen vest and straighten bottom. Shirts Adult Nobility: Simplicity 9929 - View 4 CF closed up yoke, lengthen and widen sleeves, add cuff and stand up collar with ties at neck and wrists. Adult Peasants: Simplicity 7574 - View 1, no ruffle, lengthen to crotch, may slit yoke to sternum Butterick 6731 - no sash, make sleeves longer Butterick 3194 - as is Child: Butterick 6730: As Butterick 6731. Simplicity 8943 - View 1, no ruffles, shorten to shirt length Breeches Adult: Simplicity 7558 - View 3, lengthen to below knee and elasticize McCalls 6509 - elasticize knees, no pockets Child: McCall's 6510 or 5356 - below knee, no pockets Simplicity 8502 - lengthen below knee Clown pant patterns often work. Newborns McCall's 5131 - shoes Butterick 3317 - Views B and D, lengthen sleeves, use lacing From: sewinwench at aol.com (SewinWench) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: cotehardie patterns? Date: 26 Apr 1995 18:59:05 -0400 You can order Period Patterns pattern from this company: Amazon Vinegar and Pickling Works Drygoods, Ltd. 2218 East 11th Street Davenport, IA 52803 (319) 322-6800 Don't let the name fool you. This is the most fabulous mail order company in the whole world. (unsolicited praise) Hope this helps, Sarah Seamstitcher The Sewing Wench Barony of Iron Mountain Meridies From: connect at aol.com (CONNECT) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Designs for Cavalier Clothes Date: 1 Jun 1995 11:55:14 -0400 Mark Tiller askes: >>>Could someone suggest books, articles, periodicals etc etc to get designs for a male cavalier outfit?<<< Have you checked out the Raiments Catalog? They have a number of patterns from various times, and you should be able to find something to work. <grin> Rainments PO Box 93095 Pasadena, CA 91109 (818) 797-2723 Email them at 72437.674 at compuserver.com Yours In Service, Rosalyn MacGregor of Glen Orchy Pattie Rayl of Cynnabar * Patricia Snyder-Rayl * (313) 973-8825 From: vorder at tigger.stcloud.msus.edu (Andrew Vorder Bruegge) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: re: robe pattern Date: 4 Aug 1995 16:27:29 GMT Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN To Deirdre, searching for a pattern. I belive that the garment for which you search is called in period a "loose gown". Patterns for several may be found in"Patterns of Fashion, vol III" by Janet Arnold. The scaled patterns may look complicated but this was the first garment which my lord husband patterned and made for himself. Your lord will look splendid, but don't skimp on the fabric. Mistress Aidan Morgana Evans, posting from her gracious lord's "wizard mail." From: Barb at DISTANT-CARAVANS.reno.nv.us (Barbara Morgan) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Question about historical patterns Date: 23 Aug 1995 00:53:54 GMT Organization: Great Basin Internet Services, Reno, NV bj at alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Barbara Jean Kuehl) says: >From: bj at alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Barbara Jean Kuehl) >Newsgroups: alt.wedding,soc.couples.wedding >Subject: Question about historic clothing patterns >Date: 22 Aug 1995 20:30:32 GMT >Organization: Information & Media Technologies, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee BJ was heard to say: >In preparing the section of the medieval/renaissance faq, I have been >informed of some good patterns for appropriate medieval and renaissance >clothing. These patterns are supposedly available in fabric stores, >although they may be difficult to locate, and I've been told that they >are available through several catalog companies such as Raiments, >Amazon Vinegar & Pickling Works Drygoods, and the Whole Costumer's >Catalog. Unfortunately, some people say that the patterns are called >'Folk Patterns', others call them 'Past Patterns', and still others >say they care called 'Folkwear Patterns'. > >Can someone shed some light on this? Are these three different brand >names of patterns? Is one type available in the stores while another >in the catalogs? I have been unable to locate these patterns in any >local fabric stores, and the only catalog info I have is from Amazon >V&P Works, and they don't call them by any name at all. > >I would like to mention them in the med/ren wedding faq but I'm not >sure that I would describe them correctly. Saw Folkwear pattern advertised in Chivalry Sports, 1955 W. Grants Rd. Suite 230, Tucson, AZ, 85745. Also thought they carried Period Patterns. Also, there use to be a company that sold hat patterns call D.L. Designs, PO Box 10537, Glendale CA, 91209. I bought my pattern 5 years ago and do not know if these folks are still in business. Nice patterns, good instructions. **A personal CAUTION to those using a pattern for the first time, Try cutting it out of an inexpensive piece of fabric like a used sheet, to be had cheap at 2nd hand stores. After you sew up the your sheet and make any alterations necessary, you can then take that sheet garment apart and use that as your pattern on your nice material. I learned this trick the hard way. Sewed a lovely garment out some really classy material using a pattern for the first time. It was unfortunate that the garment fit my friend 10 year old when it was completed. Amaryllis. Barb at DISTANT-CARAVANS,reno,nv,us http://www.greatbasin.com/~caravan/ From: noramunro at aol.com (Noramunro) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Question about historical patterns Date: 23 Aug 1995 09:56:38 -0400 BJ asks >In preparing the section of the medieval/renaissance faq, I have been >informed of some good patterns for appropriate medieval and renaissance >clothing. These patterns are supposedly available in fabric stores, >although they may be difficult to locate, and I've been told that they >are available through several catalog companies such as Raiments, >Amazon Vinegar & Pickling Works Drygoods, and the Whole Costumer's >Catalog. Unfortunately, some people say that the patterns are called >'Folk Patterns', others call them 'Past Patterns', and still others >say they care called 'Folkwear Patterns'. > >Can someone shed some light on this? Are these three different brand >names of patterns? Is one type available in the stores while another >in the catalogs? I have been unable to locate these patterns in any >local fabric stores, and the only catalog info I have is from Amazon >V&P Works, and they don't call them by any name at all. Folkwear Patterns and Past Patterns are two brand names of patterns. Folkwear specializes in ethnic/folk costume types of clothing from around the world - you can get patterns for Kinsale cloaks, small kilts, Afghan nomads' dresses, Chinese jackets, etc, etc from them. Folkwear Patterns are available in some fabric stores, but the only store I know of in the Washington DC-Metro area that carries them is G Street Fabrics in Rockville, MD. I know a lot of SCA merchants also carry them. Past Patterns are brought to you by the same folks who run Medieval Miscellanea. They're carefully researched and produced for clothing from the Middle Ages and Renaissance and probably later. Again, you might find them in a really excellent fabric store, but you'll probably find more SCA merchants who carry them. I think I have seen Amazon Drygoods advertising their costume catalogue as carrying both Folkwear and Past Patterns, but if the catalog doesn't tell you that plainly, you could trying calling/writing them and asking. IN service, Alianora From: BRETTWI at IX.NETCOM.COM (Brett Williams) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Question about historical patterns Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 17:00:04 GMT noramunro at aol.com (Noramunro) wrote: >BJ asks <<stuff snipped>> >Folkwear Patterns and Past Patterns are two brand names of patterns. >Folkwear specializes in ethnic/folk costume types of clothing from around >the world - you can get patterns for Kinsale cloaks, small kilts, Afghan >nomads' dresses, Chinese jackets, etc, etc from them. Folkwear Patterns >are available in some fabric stores, but the only store I know of in the >Washington DC-Metro area that carries them is G Street Fabrics in >Rockville, MD. I know a lot of SCA merchants also carry them. >Past Patterns are brought to you by the same folks who run Medieval >Miscellanea. With all due respect, my lady, no. Past Patterns is designed, owned and operated by a different woman than those of Medieval Miscellanea, which has a line of patterns called "Period Patterns". I believe you may have gotten the names confused, which is easy. :) >They're carefully researched and produced for clothing from >the Middle Ages and Renaissance and probably later. With respect to Period Patterns, yes, with respect to Past Patterns, no. Past Patterns' thrust is Victorian and onwards, Period Patterns are made by SCA folk for the SCA. > Again, you might find >them in a really excellent fabric store, but you'll probably find more SCA >merchants who carry them. I think I have seen Amazon Drygoods advertising >their costume catalogue as carrying both Folkwear and Past Patterns, but >if the catalog doesn't tell you that plainly, you could trying >calling/writing them and asking. >IN service, >Alianora Likewise in service, ciorstan macAmhlaidh, CHA, AoA From: noramunro at aol.com (Noramunro) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Question about historical patterns Date: 24 Aug 1995 19:30:20 -0400 Ciorstan writes (quoting me): >>Past Patterns are brought to you by the same folks who run Medieval >>Miscellanea. >With all due respect, my lady, no. Past Patterns is designed, owned >and operated by a different woman than those of Medieval Miscellanea, >which has a line of patterns called "Period Patterns". I believe you >may have gotten the names confused, which is easy. :) Which is exactly what happened, and is terribly embarrassing since Kitea (of _Period_ Patterns) is a friend of mine. I'm still a bit addlepated from Pennsic, I fear. Oops. Sorry for any unnecessary confusion I might have generated. Cheers, Alianora From: hamilton at adi.COM Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Poofy shirts Date: 7 Sep 1995 10:03:42 -0400 Pinacomeus <GYDIAN at mars.superlink.net> asked about poofy shirts. If you're not worried about strict authenticity (and it sounds like you're not, terribly), I like the Cheesemaker's Smock from Folkwear. All the pieces are rectangles (so it's easy to alter if you're not a 42 Regular), and it's easy to put together. The finished product looks very nice and is very comfortable. I recommend using the optional armpit gussets. You can get the pattern from Amazon Drygoods. Their address was posted a few days ago (of course, I don't have it with me, darnit!). Or maybe someone you know has one you could borrow. Angelica Paganelli ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |Cindy Hamilton (hamilton at adi.com) |Angelica Paganelli | |Applied Dynamics International |Casa Salone Rigararsi | |3800 Stone School Rd., Ann Arbor, MI 48108 |Shire of Cynnabar, Midrealm | From: bcarter at prairienet.org (Barbara J. Carter) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Looking for a cloak pattern Date: 7 Nov 1995 08:50:22 GMT Organization: Prairienet, the East-Central Illinois Free-Net Will & Stacy (erichvs at ix.netcom.com) wrote: : It is a _BUTTERICK_ #6796. I love this pattern because it has : "shoulders," which keep it from falling off when it's not fastened. I suspect this pattern no longer exists, but there's another which I just made a cloak from, Butterick #3084. The pattern is a full length cloak, about the equivalent of 3/4 circle but with shoulders, lined, with or without a hood. I actually left out the lining and I'm very happy with my new cloak, which keeps me pretty warm. Now, I just have to wait a month for my clasp (Raiments is a tad behind). :-( But even without any clasp, it stayed on fairly well! Barbara -- bcarter at prairienet.org From: gina at delphi.com Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Looking for a cloak pattern Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 23:17:26 -0500 Patricia Long <PLLINHS at uriacc.uri.EDU> writes: >I don't make a cloak. Does anyone know of a good pattern out there >that a just-past-beginner in sewing would be able to use? Greetings milady, Another pattern you may want to try is VOGUE #7110...rated as Very Easy, Very Vogue. It's a nice simple full cape, with or without hood. It has somewhat fitted shoulders which are simply cut a part of the seam allowance, and do not require great skill. If you are a Small to Medium size you can do the cape with between 4-1/8 to 5 yards of fabric if your fabric is 54 to 60 inches wide. You could make this up in a nice wool which would be warm, and probably wouldn't need to line it unless you felt it necessary. To line it, you could simply cut a second set of your chosen lining fabric and put the two together, right sides together, stitching down the center fronts, and hem edges, and then turn it right side out through the neck hole and add your hood last. Hope this helps. Ever in Service, Ingeborg (Regina) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: I need help with a cotehardie!--LONGISH From: amethysta at eric.stonemarche.org (Amethysta of Kensingto) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 95 17:39:41 EST Pasha writes: > I respectfully have to disagree w/the lady who states you cannot find a > good cotehardie pattern out of simplicity or butterick. I have seen many Have to agree with you there. If anyone is interested, try Simplicity 8603. It is a princess line-type dress, and all it need to make it into a cotehardie is a foot more material on the bottom, buttons on the sleeve and replace the zipper with lacings. I used this pattern for my bride's maid's dresses, so now instead of having a gaudy dress that they will never wear again, they all have purple linen cotehardies! Amethysta From: "'Jherek' W. Swanger" <jswanger at u.washington.edu> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Medieval Clothes Patterns? Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 17:40:51 -0800 Organization: University of Washington On 11 Dec 1995, Paul Diaguila wrote: > My lady and I are looking for a source of patterns for Medieval cloths. > Any help will be rewarded with much gratitude... The historical costuming FAQ has a list of catalogs which sell patterns. You can find it at: http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~rodmur/sca/arts-sciences/Costuming_Info.html It's also archived at the FTP site: rtfm.mit.edu /pub/usenet/news.answers/crafts/historical-costuming kirsti (not jherek) From: bbooth at televar.COM Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: medieval patterns Date: 15 Dec 1995 19:47:33 -0500 >Start by calling or writing the SCA Marketplace PO Box 360789 Milpitas CA 95036-0789 (408)956-5444. They have some good books and stuff to start with. Also, check at events or local fabric stores for Medieval Miscellany patterns.< I think a warning should be attached to all Medieval Miscellany patterns. The tunic pattern that I worked with _once_ was a massive mess of lines on paper. I have to admit though it was a one-of-a-kind tunic! From: tristero.io.com!ches at uunet.uucp Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 To: eden.com!ansteorra at uunet.uucp Subject: RE: Newcomer On Sat, 13 Jan 1996 10:37:59 -0600 Nightbird wrote: >Also, I'm looking for garb information. I need a pattern for a skirt (I >have a vest and shirt already). Also looking for male garb for an ex-large >friend. > >Thanks! >Donna You may try a commercial pattern for a two piece wedding dress, they are back in style again. If you want an A-line skirt then try Vogue #1239 it has two types one with a victorian waist cincher and another with a regular waistband. It is the only a-line skirt pattern I have found. Also try the h-costume mailing list and this webpage: http://home.aol.com/randwhit. It has a catalog of stuff. Ciao at }\ Ches at }----`--,-- http://www.io.com/~ches/ at }/ From: maj at serv.net (Marnie Fiamengo) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: garb patterns? Date: 18 Jun 1996 15:31:16 GMT >I'm in the process of putting together a Medieval wedding that will take >place in some months. I could swear that I saw something somewhere that had >ideas about various mostly 'mainstream' clothing patterns (you know, >Simplicity, etc.), but now that I'm looking for it, I can't find it. Can >anyone tell me of any such patterns for sale (or patterns with a comparable >price as those found in material stores) that I can pass on to my relatives >who can't buy garb outright but want to come to the wedding in period dress? >rea >seer at floodland.mv.com A List of "Mainstream" Patterns to make Medieval / Renaissance Garb (06/18/96) I just spent a few hours skimming through the "mainstream" pattern books (Summer 96) at my local fabric store and came up with the following list of patterns that I feel could be used to make Med / Ren costumes... About Fabrics to use: NO LAMEE!!! Please use fabrics that look and feel period. Don't really worry about colors in your first costume, go with what looks good to you. Please avoid prints... Have fun with trim... Get hose/tights from dance supply stores (opaque, heavy duty, made specifically for men!!) Butterick: costume patterns 5673; 5749; and 6305 Simplicity: 9729/9736; 8004/8010 Robin Hood & Maid Marion; 9175 A & D; 9229/9236; 9698 B & F; 9718/9724 A, C, & H; 9089 A & B 7046 (Juliet) floor length, sleeves A or D; 8537 (Tudor) floor length, sleeves 1, neck 2; 8888 bodice A or B, set in sleeves; 9580 view D (wear as jerkin over a blouse with a full, floor length skirt); 9582 D & E (blouse); 7163 B (not lace); 8009 full skirt (with or w/o train), long sleeves; McCalls: 6775 Medieval Magic B & C; 6720 A & B; 7280/7281 (Tudor-knee length tunic w lots of trim, over hose, belt it); 7766; 7563 skirt A, bodice B/D, fancy trim; 6680 Robin Hood, Princess; 6810 B, C, & D; 7123 view B ("western" shirt as blouse for men or women); 8157 A (over a blouse); 8100 (Juliet) floor length, gathered sleeves; 7957 E floor length; 7197 (over blouse); 8016 C floor length; 8043 floor length skirt, bodice B, D, & E, sleeves A; 8052 B with sleeves (A) from 8043; 7990 full skirt, bodice (over a blouse); 6774 cloaks Hope this helps! Morna Judithsdottir Marnie Fiamengo From: eherring at mindspring.com (Evan L. Herring) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Cotehardies & sideless surcoats - ?s Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:34:23 -0400 >In article <4v7une$nda at dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> brettwi at ix.netcom.com(Brett Williams) writes: >>It's [McCall's] 5743, copyright 1992, so it might be out of print. Indeed, as you suspected, I couldn't find it anywhere. I did, however, find another (albeit Simplicity) pattern that might work. I would be interested in hearing opinions on #8345; it is described as a "fit and flared dress with princess seams; cap sleeves and back zipper." The front seams do go all the way to the shoulder, and the sleeve appears to be easily alterable to a long one. The mid-calf length dress shows a dress width of 129 1/2". >>With that caveat in mind, there's Simplicity 9417, a tunic and (!!!) >>sideless surcote that's designed to tie on over the dress. With a minor >>amount of fiddling with the surcote (I'd widen the skirts out by >>slashing the pattern and spreading), there's a good guideline for a >>surcote. This one I found. Now I need some advice, as I have never "slashed" a pattern before --- only shortened or lengthened. How many length-wise slashes should I make? Where should they begin --- at the approx. waistline? Is there any limit to how far I can "spread" the pattern before it gets distorted and will not give me a true floor-length hem? I apologize for all the questions, but I'm a relatively new *alterer* of patterns, and I can't afford to experiment much. In advance, I thank you! :-) Magdalen of Cheshire From: theducks at greenduck.com (Steve Urbach) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: chemise pattern--?? Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 03:16:44 GMT Organization: Green Duck Designs HPGV80D at prodigy.COM (MISS PATRICIA M HEFNER) wrote: >Does anybody know how I might get a pattern for a chemise? If so, please >let me know. ----Isabelle Visit Green Duck Designs WEB site. http://www.greenduck.com/ Look under patterns pattern is from Smoke & Fire. Derek dragonsclaw From: Kim Pollard <kim at inna.net> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Costuming question Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:20:38 -0500 Organization: WebSpan Inc., New Jersey On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, Jessica Megan Harwell wrote: > I am looking for patterns (McCalls, Simplicity, etc) from which to make my > garb out of. If any of you have found a commercial pattern that you have > used, I would be very grateful if you would send me the name of the > company and the number. I have not chosen my time period for my persona, > so all contributions are welcome. Thanks in advance. > Jourdain _____ I found a couple of patterns for halloween that may be useful for starters. They look good, but I doubt they're any more "period" than plastic... ;> Butterick #5749 This is a kind of "Robin Hood" outfit. Pretty easy to make. McCall's Costumes #8449 This is the women's & girl's renaissance outfit. McCall's Costumes #8450 This is men's & boy's renaissance outfit. Anyone know how accurate the last two are? They look nice on the cover, but I've never researched them, so I have no idea how accurate they might be. Kimberly From: Heather McGlaughlin <hmcglaug at olemiss.edu> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Costuming question Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 18:55:49 -0600 Organization: Univeristy of Mississippi Choral Music Jessica Megan Harwell wrote: > I am looking for patterns (McCalls, Simplicity, etc) from which to make my > garb out of. If any of you have found a commercial pattern that you have > used, I would be very grateful if you would send me the name of the > company and the number. I have not chosen my time period for my persona, > so all contributions are welcome. Thanks in advance. > Jourdain > > * Jessica Megan Harwell * > * jess at jove.acs.unt.edu * I was just browsing and stopped at this- I found a pattern by "Style" the other night that is perfect for an Italian renaissance dress. It has a wide scoop/sqaured neckline high-waisted bodice, and a skirt that is pleated on in the period style. The skirt is short (above the knee) but you could lengthen it easily. I don't have the number here at work with me, but if you'll email me privately, I could give you the number and some other patterns that have worked for me. fiona Fiona MacLachlan Heather McGlaughlin Chatelaine Department of Music Shire of Hammerhold University of Mississippi Oxford, MS University, MS 38677 <hmcglaug at olemiss.edu> Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:57:28 -0600 (CST) From: "Matthew R. Popalisky" <mpopali at comp.uark.edu> To: ansteorra at eden.com Cc: bryn-gwlad at eden.com Subject: Re: Costuming question On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, Jessica Megan Harwell wrote: > I am looking for patterns (McCalls, Simplicity, etc) from which to make my > garb out of. If any of you have found a commercial pattern that you have > used, I would be very grateful if you would send me the name of the > company and the number. I have not chosen my time period for my persona, > so all contributions are welcome. Thanks in advance. > Jourdain (assuming you've done research to see what lines you are looking for) From our good friend, the Knowne World Handbook (get one): Bridal Elegance 1174 bodices Bridal Elegance 1833 sleeves (no shirring) Bridal Elegence 1837 more sleeves (no huge leg-o-mutton) My advice here would be to look at the patterns in the book and find the same thing in Simplicity or whatever. Folkwear 102 French Cheesemaker's smock - field costuming Folkwear 103 Roumanian blouse - shirt/chemise *this is a good one* Folkwear 119 Sarouelles - three different ethnic pants. Can be shortened for slops, etc. Very simple. Folkwear 126 Vests from Greece and Poland - field clothes, doublet Folkwear 204 Missouri River Boatman's shirt - chemise, reduce neckband to 1 in (currently blackworking mine) Folkwear 226 Princess Slip - look at it, find a cheaper pattern. Good to adapt for 15th cent Folkwear also carries patterns for Hapi, Haouri, kimono, choli, and the two piece thing the Indian women wear (haven't researched that yet, but soon). *** warning *** Folkwear patterns are a might tricky, and are not a good idea for the inexperienced seamstress. It has been my experience that the instructions leave something to be desired. Definately check out the Rialto Archives. I also have charming T-tunic instructions, email if you want it. Kateryn Grimfells From: Brett and Karen Williams <brettwi at ix.netcom.com> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Desperately seeking cotehardie pattern Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 21:09:37 -0800 Kellen Harkins wrote: > Yes try and track down a princess line type pattern, but the key > difference is that you ( and I know there is one out there) would be > more period to find a pattern where the side front seams go up into > the shoulders rather than the arm holes. I don't remember the > pattern number but I believe it is still available... To get a more > period stayle flare in the skirt, you can add gores in between the > panels on the bottom. These are basically a triangle type shape. > Someone who has more experience or references could probably help more > but this should give you a start... If I'm not mistaken the male style > has fairly straight lines, with a similar gore style on the skirt... > > Ah, but the best part of cotehardies is sewing ten zillion button holes! > -- > Kelley / Lady Kellen Oddsdottir/A woman with many faces.... > > Kellen Harkins > a013957t at bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us McCalls has one in print right now-- saw it in the book less than a week ago. I'd note the pattern number, however I have a drawer full of various versions of (cough) eighteen years of 'the perfect cotehardie' pattern and restrained myself. ;) I would add that in order to fit the shoulders correctly, one must omit the shoulderpads and the *allowance* in fabric to go over those offending shoulderpads. This is easily done by carefully taking in the garment along the control seam from the bust point up and over the top of the shoulder and down to the corresponding point on the back of the shoulder. Sewing cognoscenti should recognise right off the bat that I'm talking about altering a princess dress with control seams that go to the top of the shoulder rather than into the armsceye. Mundanely speaking, I'd never buy a princess dress pattern that *did* have the control seams going over the bust into the armscye-- if it's the least bit off in fit (which is determined in the cutting phase) it's next to nigh impossible to fix. The shoulder control seams are much more forgiving. The usual caveat of My Humble Opinion gets inserted here. :) And to add a last tantalizing bit, Simplicity 9417 is a basic t-tunic dress that has an apron thingie designed to be worn over it-- which can be altered by spreading to a nice, basic sideless surcote. I don't know if it's still in print; it's c. 1995. The dress could be lengthened to a decent level, too. ciorstan From: Moira Ramsay <moira at iscweb.com> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Desperately seeking cotehardie pattern Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 11:42:12 -0800 For Modern Patterms with Princess Lines that go into the Shoulder rather that the military cut here are three that as far as I know are still available. New Look 6327 Butterick 3240 and McCalls 6951 The New Look and McCalls patterns are wonderfully simple dresses and do not take to much fabric. I have managed to only use 6 - 7 yds with out a nap. Great for tourney wear. The McCalls is a 12 panel wedding gown. It is beautiful and easily adapted for our use. However it does take a fair amount of fabric for this gown. Lady Moira Ramsay West Kingdom Principality of the Mists Intermediate (self taught) Sewer and working on it! :-) Organization: University of Maine System Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 16:52:11 EST From: Lisa A. Tyson <CS23001 at MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Found mundane pattern to adapt for Elizabethan Chemise Just got back from my 'place of worship'- Jo Ann Fabrics- and thought I'd share the pattern I found which I will adapt for an Elizabethan chemise. The pattern is by New Look No. 6163 and was on sale for $3.00 (normally $3.49 ). It is actually a nightgown pattern which has several variations and is also a multi-sized pattern. Now, I know some of you experienced in costuming for Elizabethan garments will go "ehhhh". I'm still learning how to sew and to calculate and adapt patterns for myself. I'm sure I'll find this pattern pretty useful an an aid to my costuming endeavors.Perhaps I'll even graduate from inexpensive cotton to nice linen for undergarments!!! I will be using this pattern in conjunction with the Elizabethan Hope the suggestion helps those searching for costuming ideas. -- Lady Bryn Kingdom of the East Subject: Thank you for the courtesy of your message From: CS23001 at MAINE.maine.edu (Lisa A. Tyson) To: MARKH at risc.sps.mot.com Date: Fri, 10 Jan 97 15:40:13 EST Gentle Stefan li Rous Regarding : Found mundane pattern to adapt for Elizabethan Chemise > Thanks for this input. I'll be adding it to my patterns-msg file > in the CLOTHING section of my SCA Rialto Files. Thank you for letting me know my opinion will be posted in a publicly accessible forum. Hope the pattern will help others who are new to sewing and willing to use that pattern as a base for adaptations later. There are some small changes I will make to the pattern: Probably make a fuller sleeve (width) and shorten the length of the ruff type cuff. The pin tucks (vertical fold lines) on the chest area will likely be omitted. I think the pattern can easily make a nice shirt (partlet) rather than making a full length chemise each time. I will likely add either a small edging of lace or some type of ruff (perhaps fake it with box pleats) to the cuffs and neckline. I am hoping this pattern will give me more practice with a standing collar as that seems to be the one piece of costuming I have the hardest time with. The diagrams seem to have the chemise flair out to the sides from the waist/hipline downwards. I suspect someone interested in post 1600 falling collars (like for cavalier clothing) might find the alternate collar of interest. My primary reason for buying this pattern was that it appears to closely resemble the sketches for a middle class/noble woman's chemise in the popular _Elizabethan Costuming_ book. You may include any of the additional information you wish. You also had a question about this paragraph, which unfortunately was truncated on my text editor before I submitted my article: > Now, I know some of you experienced in costuming for Elizabethan garments > will go "ehhhh". I'm still learning how to sew and to calculate > and adapt patterns for myself. I'm sure I'll find this pattern pretty > useful an an aid to my costuming endeavors.Perhaps I'll even graduate > from inexpensive cotton to nice linen for undergarments!!! > I will be using this pattern in conjunction with the Elizabethan > --> Huh?? Elizabethan what? Elizabethan Costuming book (by Savoy and Winter ?? ). I don't have it handy at the moment. Thank you for your note. This email address will likely go dormant in the near future as it is/was a university student account. I'll be certain to check out your pattern files so I can share the information with others in my area. -- In Service, Lady Bryn MacLachlan Kingdom of the East Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 22:23:04 -0600 To: markh at risc.sps.mot.com (Mark S. Harris) From: Heather McGlaughlin <hmcglaug at olemiss.edu> Subject: Re: Costuming question At 12:06 AM 11/20/96 -0600, you wrote: >Yes, please. I would love to have some more patterns to add to my >file patterns-msg in the CLOTHING section of my SCA Rialto Files. > >Thanks. > Stefan li Rous I am truly sorry it has taken me a while to reply. I had to bring my patterns to school to compile the list. Here it is as I posted to a costume question on the Meridian list. Good Gentles, I posted this list to the Meridian mailing list in response to an inquiry, and thought it might be of help to many of those who like to have an actual mundane pattern to work from when creating garb. Hope this is of use! These are patterns that I have PERSONALLY used in the last few months (or am working on now)to make Italian Ren. and other period garb. The only major modifications needed are to remove the bustline darts (see the section ongarb in the Known World Handbook for how to do this!) and to adjust the skirt length to suit. If you plan to dance in them, it's best to hem them a bit shorter. List follows. STYLE #2085 Perfect for basic Italian Ren. Remove bustline darts. Lace it up the back, and instead of facing the neck, simply line the bodice with something stiff (trigger or horsehair canvas work well). Add length to the hem at the bottom. Be sure to use View 1 for the skirt. Add pieced sleeves for a nice effect. You may also effectively turn the bodice around (using the back as the front, and make a front lacing gown with open front to wear over a chemise or suitable underdress for something cooler. For a period effect (Venetian style) close the top few inches of the skirt with two or three buttons. See and Sew (by Butterick) #4479 Again, remove the darts, line the bodice instead of using the neck facing, and lace it up the back. You may gather the skirt on as shown, or box pleat it (as in Style # 2085). Be sure to add enough length to the skirt. The sleeves will work well with a few modifications (make them a bit tighter, adjust the top line of the sleeve to a period cut, and cut in half, adding holes for other puffs, etc.) Lace or button them on, and be sure to have nice full chemise (camiccia) sleeves to puff out underneath. The rest are not Italian Ren, but for other period styles. McCalls #7957 (modified for cotehardie) Make View A, extending to floor length, (or less if you dance). Scoop out the neckline a little to make it a bateau neck (see any early period painting or illumination). You may also modify the princess seams in frontso that the curve goes to the neckline (straight up ) instead of curving out to the armscye. Add extra gores to the skirt if you want more fullness, but it works fine as is. Lace up the back, and add trim!! Style # 2805 (modified for cotehardie) View A or B This gown has a LOVELY silhouette. Again, modify the neckline just a bit (The V-neck just WON'T do!!) to a scoop or bateau neckline. Adjust the princess seam in the same manner as above. The neck drape isn't period, but a nicely rounded scoop neck and tippets will look much the same. I would recommend not adding the full length of the train unless you are say, a bride or the QUEEN, and have people to hold it up for you! Just round out the back hem for a full floor length gown. Lace up the back instead of the zipper and buttons, or seam up the back and split down the front and button it from the waist up. (I'm using this one for my Graduate Voice Recital gown... I think it's trs elegante!!) Style #2678 Views B and C (Peasant bodice and full long skirt) Make the skirt as directed, to length desired. Use a hook and eye or button rather than the zipper. Make bodice B, lacing the front instead of using the buttons (bone the straight edge of seams for support for your grommets). Leave out the loops and lacing in back, adjusting along seam lines for fit. Easy Peasant!! Hope you all have fun making these. Let me know if you have any questions. BTW, I'll be teaching a class at Gulf Wars on constructing basic Italian Renaissance gowns. The patterns above have worked well for me. For a good research source, try The Book of Costume by Milla Davenport. Lots of great photos. Fiona Heather McGlaughlin Fiona MacLachlan Graduate Assistant Chatelaine Department of Music/Choral Activities Shire of Hammerhold University of Mississippi Oxford, MS From: Greg & Robin Kornides <kornides at nb.net> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: period patterns info Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 14:04:00 -0800 Bocachika wrote: > im interested in finding people who have tried the Houpplaude and > cotehardie patterns from Period Patterns. i have heard they were > confusing. Specifically, were you pleased/satisfied with the results? I've used both the men's and women's cotehardie patterns as well as the houppelande pattern (incl. both men's & women's) and have had no problems with either of them. One caveat though, the houppelande armhole & sleeve cap for the women's sizes is rather high and tight, so if you are making one for a lady with ample arms, use the men's armhole/sleeve and adjust sleeve length as necessary. miriel verdy From: "Perkins" <lwperkins at snip.net> Subject: Re: period patterns info Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Date: 24 Mar 97 15:29:09 GMT > Bocachika wrote: > > im interested in finding people who have tried the Houpplaude and > > cotehardie patterns from Period Patterns. i have heard they were > > confusing. Specifically, were you pleased/satisfied with the results? I've used the men's cotehardie pattern and found that trying to trace the correct size lines was like trying to navigate roads in Boston--too many overlaps and not enough signage. I find patterns that have more than four sizes printed on top of each other annoying to use, but if you are patient (I'm not) and spend time with a colored pencil before you cut, the Period Patterns go together well. The woman's Tudor gown pattern is sized for the shape of someone wearing a period corset underneath, so watch out for that if you're going to wear mundane undergarments. --Ester Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 08:30:27 -0700 From: Kathi <britearrow at geocities.com> To: markh at risc.sps.mot.com Subject: rialto-re:patterns I've found a great bodice pattern, McCalls#8223. It is designed to zip up the back, but I just sewed it shut. It does need boning if you're going to use the lacings for closure instead of a zipper, or it gaps. Also, it tends to run a little large, so you need to check the fit before you sew it together, or you'll be taking it in afterwards like I did. I got many compliments from ladies working ren-faires, and the local SCA Clothing Guild Mistress loved the pattern. Caitlinn Ingen Brigt(Kat) britearrow at geocities.com Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:09:48 -0700 From: "C.A.Renfro" <christy at lightspeed.net> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Duct tape Dummy Rakhel asks: >I have instructions on making a duct tape dummy and am eager to enlist the >assistance of my friend to create one. >As one who has great problems staying still, how long will I have to stand? >Will my friend still talk to me afterwards? Take a look at this site, it does a good job of explaining the process. http://pw2.netcom.com/~leahna/DuctTapeDouble.html Christy Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:25:18 -0500 From: Kapaj <kapaj at webspan.net> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Question about possible garb pattern Liz Herman/cozit wrote: > McCalls has put out a new pattern (ok, so they put it out in September, > but it's almost new). They call it a Renaissance Maiden Costume..I'm > pretty certain that the number is 7756. > > Does anyone know if this is actually period (at least looking)...and if > so, what time and place (generally speaking). I'm wondering because > I've seen people at events who have been wearing gowns that are *very* > similar to the picture on the pattern. After talking to one person at > 12th Night, I know that at least a few of these were put together (no > pattern) by those wearing. > > -Elisabeth (cozit at apexgrp.com) I think I have seen the pattern that you are referring to. It does have the "look" of an early tudor dress. A friend of mine made it as field/kitchen garb. If you are new to sewing and/or new to the SCA and want get started this will be a start. Keep in mind though that the pattern does have some drawbacks - - first and formost it has darts (not period) It skimps on material in the skirt (as least from a period perspective. And the way the shoulder seams are connected leaves something to be desired. I would make the following recommendations: If you do not know how to alter a pattern, leave the darts alone cover the seams of the darts with trim (look at lots of pictures of tudor dresses to get the right "Look" for trim placement) When you make the bodice part of the dress try it on and make sure it will fit snug enough (read this as very tight!) If you are not too big busted you can get away without boning the bodice if you use a couple of layers of a firm fabric as interlining such as canvas or a heavy twill. If you are larger busted you will have to "bone" the bodice or wear a corset underneath. If you need instructions on how to make a corset or bone a bodice e-mail me your address and I'll send you some written instructions. If you have the option, I would strongly encourage you to join and attend your local garb workshops, Usually at any given garb workshop there may be someone who can help you make the adjustments to this pattern to make it more period. Lady Jacqueline Helene Loisel Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:37:50 +0000 From: Karen at agent.infodata.com (Harris, Karen) To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Question about possible garb pattern Elisabeth wrote about a McCall's "Renaissance Maiden" costume ... while McCall's does have a Renaissance women's costume, it's pretty nasty-looking ... but I think this isn't what Elisabeth saw. Simplicity carries a pair of relatively decent Renaissance patterns -- 7756 for women (http://www.simplicity.com/Images/7756.jpg), and 7761 for men (http://www.simplicity.com/Images/7761.jpg). If this is indeed the pattern Elisabeth was looking at, then I would strongly suggest she follow the advise of Lady Jacqueline Helene Loisel. I haven't played around with this pattern yet but it looks like it could make up a right decent Irish dress. An e-mail pen pal of mine will be bringing over a dress she made based off of this pattern to our Needlework Night on Tuesday and I am looking forward to seeing it made up. McCall's does however carry a reasonable 15th century set -- men's simple houppelande with a hat and pouch as accessories, and a women's square-necked kirtle. (I don't like how they do the women's surcoat though; I understand that it's supposed to look more like the German surcoats but it just turns out nasty-lookin', IMHO.) I can vouch for the women's dress as being period-looking and comfy -- I made it without any fastenings on the sides (it calls for zippers, but those openings can easily be converted for lacing) and wear them to warm-weather events. :) Karen Larsdatter From: Brett and Karen Williams <brettwi at ix.netcom.com> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Re Q. about possible garb pattern....Ooops! Liz Herman/cozit wrote: > Apparently my head was out to lunch somewhat when I sent out my > question. The pattern I am wondering is indeed Simplicity's new pattern > (7756)...not McCalls. I forgot which side of the pattern cabinet I was > looking at. > > I appreciate the responses I've received, but could those who know the > pattern, please let me know about the periodness and where the > Simplicity pattern would fit in? > > -Elisabeth I don't have a copy of the pattern myself-- so I can't comment on the way the pieces themselves make up. I will trot out my usual complaint about Simplicity, though-- as a whole Simplicity is notorious for pieces not fitting together and their skirt illustrations usually show much more skirt drape than the pieces actually make up. However, I went to the web site and examined the picture Lady Karen so kindly provided and will express my opinion thereon. I haven't seen the back view, so I can't comment thereon. The picture is: http://www.simplicity.com/Images/7756.jpg I'll call the striped gown on the left as view A, the more elaborate gown on the right view B. I see a number of small problems that add up to a mildly dissatisfying whole. The pattern is all right for a 'costume'-- but the details are off. View A is a very late period "Irish dress", View B is something of a mish-mash of details that makes the dress hard to place temporally other than somewhere around 1530s to 1540's. View A has an obvious dart from the bust point to the waist for shaping. I would eliminate the dart by drafting it out (any good sewing text will explain this technique in clear detail). If there's a dart in the back bodice, same thing. The chemise/shift is too short in the arms (no decent woman would display her arms above her wrists!) and it lacks a cuff and an oversleeve. The lack of an oversleeve is fine, if one is after an Irish dress. English lower middle class and downwards-- unless it was a very hot day and you were up to your elbows in muck, you were undressed without your oversleeves. The padded roll hat is all right for Irish (but wrong trim placement and IIRC, the veil is wrong), but Right Out for English. Ah, yes-- and lose the apron. The skirts are not quite full enough, either. Cross reference this photograph against the illustration with respect to women's clothes at: http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~wew/celt-clothing/ It takes a while to load. ;) I am kind of wondering at the commentary next to the picture on the web site-- because the evidence in McClintock and Dunleavy tends to contradict what the web page author has to say about women's dress. Anyway, apply some critical thought by comparing the illustration, drawn by a Dutchman who saw Tudor period Irish women first hand, against the photograph at Simplicity's site. Mairead Dunleavy's "Dress in Ireland", which is rumoured to have just come back into print again, has a fairly clear photograph of an Irish dress of this period found in a bog. It is cut nothing like what the Simplicity pattern offers-- nor the Alter Years Irish dress, though