pattens-chpns-msg - 3/6/09 ਀ഊMedieval pattens and chopines. ਀倀愀琀琀攀渀猀 ⴀ 眀漀漀搀攀渀 挀甀琀漀甀琀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀 猀栀愀瀀攀漀昀 琀栀攀 猀栀漀攀 猀 猀漀氀攀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 眀攀爀攀 猀琀爀愀瀀瀀攀搀 漀渀 漀瘀攀爀 琀栀攀 氀椀最栀琀攀爀Ⰰ 猀氀椀瀀瀀攀爀ⴀ氀椀欀攀 猀栀漀攀猀 眀漀爀渀 椀渀搀漀漀爀猀⸀ഊChopines - Open backed shoes with tall wooden soles. ਀ഊNOTE: See also the files: shoes-msg, p-shoes-msg, shoemaking-msg, leather-msg, hose-msg, headgear-msg, hose-manu-MA-art, boots-msg, 2Shod-a-Shire-art. ਀ഊ************************************************************************ ਀一伀吀䤀䌀䔀 ⴀഊ ਀吀栀椀猀 昀椀氀攀 椀猀 愀 挀漀氀氀攀挀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 栀愀瘀椀渀最 愀 挀漀洀洀漀渀 琀栀攀洀攀 琀栀愀琀 䤀  栀愀瘀攀 挀漀氀氀攀挀琀攀搀 昀爀漀洀 洀礀 爀攀愀搀椀渀最 漀昀 琀栀攀 瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 挀漀洀瀀甀琀攀爀 渀攀琀眀漀爀欀猀⸀ 匀漀洀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 搀愀琀攀 戀愀挀欀 琀漀 ㄀㤀㠀㤀Ⰰ 猀漀洀攀 洀愀礀 戀攀 愀猀 爀攀挀攀渀琀 愀猀 礀攀猀琀攀爀搀愀礀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀椀猀 昀椀氀攀 椀猀 瀀愀爀琀 漀昀 愀 挀漀氀氀攀挀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 昀椀氀攀猀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 匀琀攀昀愀渀✀猀 䘀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀⸀ 吀栀攀猀攀 昀椀氀攀猀 愀爀攀 愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀 漀渀 琀栀攀 䤀渀琀攀爀渀攀琀 愀琀㨀 栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀昀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀⸀漀爀最ഊ ਀䤀  栀愀瘀攀 搀漀渀攀  愀 氀椀洀椀琀攀搀 愀洀漀甀渀琀  漀昀  攀搀椀琀椀渀最⸀ 䴀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 栀愀瘀椀渀最 琀漀 搀漀  眀椀琀栀 猀攀瀀愀爀愀琀攀 琀漀瀀椀挀猀  眀攀爀攀 猀漀洀攀琀椀洀攀猀 猀瀀氀椀琀 椀渀琀漀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀 昀椀氀攀猀 愀渀搀 猀漀洀攀琀椀洀攀猀 攀砀琀爀愀渀攀漀甀猀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀 眀愀猀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀搀⸀ 䘀漀爀 椀渀猀琀愀渀挀攀Ⰰ 琀栀攀  洀攀猀猀愀最攀 䤀䐀猀  眀攀爀攀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀搀 琀漀 猀愀瘀攀 猀瀀愀挀攀 愀渀搀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀 挀氀甀琀琀攀爀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 挀漀洀洀攀渀琀猀 洀愀搀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀猀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 愀爀攀 渀漀琀 渀攀挀攀猀猀愀爀椀氀礀 洀礀 瘀椀攀眀瀀漀椀渀琀猀⸀ 䤀 洀愀欀攀  渀漀 挀氀愀椀洀猀  愀猀  琀漀 琀栀攀 愀挀挀甀爀愀挀礀  漀昀  琀栀攀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀  最椀瘀攀渀  戀礀 琀栀攀 椀渀搀椀瘀椀搀甀愀氀 愀甀琀栀漀爀猀⸀ഊ ਀倀氀攀愀猀攀  爀攀猀瀀攀挀琀 琀栀攀 琀椀洀攀  愀渀搀  攀昀昀漀爀琀猀 漀昀  琀栀漀猀攀 眀栀漀 栀愀瘀攀 眀爀椀琀琀攀渀  琀栀攀猀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀⸀ 吀栀攀  挀漀瀀礀爀椀最栀琀 猀琀愀琀甀猀  漀昀 琀栀攀猀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀  椀猀  甀渀挀氀攀愀爀  愀琀 琀栀椀猀 琀椀洀攀⸀ 䤀昀  椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀  椀猀  瀀甀戀氀椀猀栀攀搀  昀爀漀洀  琀栀攀猀攀  洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀Ⰰ 瀀氀攀愀猀攀 最椀瘀攀 挀爀攀搀椀琀 琀漀 琀栀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀琀漀爀⠀猀⤀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀愀渀欀 礀漀甀Ⰰഊ Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous ਀                                          匀琀攀昀愀渀 愀琀 昀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀⸀漀爀最ഊ************************************************************************ ਀ഊFrom: sclark at blues.epas.utoronto.ca (Susan Carroll-Clark) ਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: Re: Heels not period? Pft! ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 ㈀㐀 䐀攀挀 ㄀㤀㤀㐀 　㌀㨀㔀㈀㨀　㔀 䜀䴀吀ഊOrganization: University of Toronto -- EPAS ਀ഊGreetings! ਀ऀ一漀眀Ⰰ 䤀 搀漀渀✀琀 欀渀漀眀 洀甀挀栀 愀戀漀甀琀 栀攀攀氀猀⸀  䈀甀琀 䤀 搀漀 欀渀漀眀 愀戀漀甀琀 瀀愀琀琀攀渀猀ഊand chopines. The former are wooden cutouts in the shape ਀漀昀 琀栀攀 猀栀漀攀 猀 猀漀氀攀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 眀攀爀攀 猀琀爀愀瀀瀀攀搀 漀渀 漀瘀攀爀 琀栀攀 氀椀最栀琀攀爀Ⰰ 猀氀椀瀀瀀攀爀ⴀ氀椀欀攀ഊshoes worn indoors. The latter look a lot like traditional ਀挀氀漀最猀 漀爀 洀甀氀攀猀ⴀⴀ漀瀀攀渀 戀愀挀欀攀搀⸀  䔀砀挀攀瀀琀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 猀漀氀攀 眀愀猀 洀愀搀攀 漀昀 眀漀漀搀ഊ(carved out to decrease the weight) and was TALL! The ones ਀䤀✀瘀攀 猀攀攀渀 椀渀 琀栀攀 䈀愀琀愀 猀栀漀攀 洀甀猀攀甀洀 愀爀攀 愀戀漀甀琀 㠀 漀爀 ㄀　 椀渀挀栀攀猀 栀椀最栀㬀ഊthere are apparently records of this type of shoe being up to 18 inches ਀栀椀最栀Ⰰ 猀甀挀栀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 氀愀搀椀攀猀 眀栀漀 眀漀爀攀 琀栀攀洀 栀愀搀 琀漀 戀攀 猀甀瀀瀀漀爀琀攀搀 漀渀ഊboth sides while walking! ਀ഊ Pattens date back at least to the 13th or 14th century, maybe ਀攀瘀攀渀 攀愀爀氀椀攀爀⸀  䌀栀漀瀀椀渀攀猀 挀愀洀攀 椀渀琀漀 昀愀猀栀椀漀渀 椀渀 琀栀攀 氀愀琀攀 ㄀㔀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀ഊand reached their extremes in 16th century Italy. ਀ഊ If you'd like more info, the local expert in chopines is ਀䴀愀搀椀渀椀愀Ⰰ 愀 昀椀渀攀 挀漀猀琀甀洀攀爀 愀渀搀 愀 䴀椀猀琀爀攀猀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 䰀愀甀爀攀氀⸀ 䔀ⴀ洀愀椀氀 洀攀ഊand I'll get you in touch. ਀ഊCheers! ਀一椀挀漀氀愀愀⼀匀甀猀愀渀ഊCanton of Eoforwic ਀猀挀氀愀爀欀 愀琀 攀瀀愀猀⸀甀琀漀爀漀渀琀漀⸀挀愀ഊ ਀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 攀搀攀爀搀 愀琀 戀挀猀琀攀挀⸀挀愀⸀戀漀攀椀渀最⸀挀漀洀 ⠀䐀愀渀椀 䔀搀攀爀⤀ഊSubject: Re: Period Footwear! ਀伀爀最愀渀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀㨀 吀栀攀 䈀漀攀椀渀最 䌀漀洀瀀愀渀礀ഊDate: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 22:13:02 GMT ਀ഊmittle at panix.com (Arval d'Espas Nord) writes: ਀㸀  匀漀洀攀 洀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 栀愀搀 戀愀搀 昀攀攀琀⸀  䴀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 眀漀爀攀 猀栀漀攀猀⸀  䤀猀 椀琀ഊ> reasonable to believe that they had _no_ solution to the problem of ਀㸀  洀愀欀椀渀最 挀漀洀昀漀爀琀愀戀氀攀 猀栀漀攀猀 昀漀爀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 眀椀琀栀 戀愀搀 昀攀攀琀㼀ഊ ਀㸀䤀琀 洀愀礀 戀攀 琀爀甀攀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀礀 搀椀搀 渀漀琀㬀 戀甀琀 琀栀愀琀 猀琀爀椀欀攀猀 洀攀Ⰰ 椀渀 洀礀 椀最渀漀爀愀渀挀攀Ⰰ 愀猀ഊ>unlikely. It sounds like the same sort of claim as the one about using ਀㸀猀瀀椀挀攀猀 琀漀 挀漀瘀攀爀 琀栀攀 琀愀猀琀攀 漀昀 猀瀀漀椀氀攀搀 洀攀愀琀⸀  䨀甀猀琀 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 眀攀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 洀漀搀攀爀渀ഊ>solution to a problem does not mean that our ancestors didn't have a ਀㸀开搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀开 猀漀氀甀琀椀漀渀 琀漀 琀栀攀 瀀爀漀戀氀攀洀⸀ഊ ਀䤀渀 琀栀攀 戀漀漀欀 ✀匀栀漀攀猀 愀渀搀 倀愀琀琀攀渀猀✀Ⰰ 搀攀猀挀爀椀戀椀渀最 昀漀漀琀眀攀愀爀 昀漀甀渀搀 椀渀 䰀漀渀搀漀渀ഊwhen excavating for modern buildings, a fair percentage of feet were ਀搀攀昀漀爀洀攀搀 愀猀 搀攀琀攀爀洀椀渀攀搀 戀礀 眀攀愀爀 瀀愀琀琀攀爀渀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀 猀栀漀攀猀⸀  圀栀攀琀栀攀爀 琀栀攀ഊdeformities came first, or whether bad shoes caused them is not ਀欀渀漀眀渀 琀漀 洀攀⸀ഊ ਀伀渀攀 琀栀椀渀最 琀漀 渀漀琀攀Ⰰ 琀栀漀甀最栀Ⰰ 椀猀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 ✀猀栀漀攀✀ 眀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 琀栀攀 攀焀甀椀瘀愀氀攀渀琀ഊof a house slipper. The 'patten', made of multiple layers of leather ਀漀爀 瀀椀攀挀攀猀 漀昀 眀漀漀搀 昀愀猀琀攀渀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀Ⰰ 眀愀猀 眀漀爀渀 漀瘀攀爀 琀栀攀 猀栀漀攀 眀栀攀渀ഊgoing outdoors. I have yet to notice an SCA person wearing such a ਀挀漀洀戀椀渀愀琀椀漀渀 ⠀瀀攀爀栀愀瀀猀 猀漀洀攀漀渀攀 攀氀猀攀 栀愀猀⤀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀礀 眀漀甀氀搀 漀昀昀攀爀 洀漀爀攀ഊopportunity for foo support than a single layer of leather does. ਀ഊDaniel of Raven's Nest ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀甀攀Ⰰ ㈀㜀 䨀甀氀 ㄀㤀㤀㤀 　㜀㨀㌀㄀㨀　㘀 ⴀ　㐀　　ഊFrom: STIS Data Analyst ਀吀漀㨀 猀挀愀ⴀ愀爀琀猀 愀琀 爀愀瘀攀渀⸀挀挀⸀甀欀愀渀猀⸀攀搀甀ഊSubject: Re: SCA-ARTS digest 837 ਀ഊRas wrote: ਀㸀 ⸀⸀⸀⸀ 吀栀攀猀攀 猀栀漀攀猀 眀攀爀攀 渀漀琀 眀漀爀渀 戀礀 琀栀攀洀猀攀氀瘀攀猀⸀ 䤀 愀洀 猀甀爀瀀爀椀猀攀搀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀ഊ> shoemaker didn't instruct you on how they would have been worn. ਀㸀 圀栀攀渀攀瘀攀爀 䤀 氀漀漀欀 昀漀爀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 琀礀瀀攀 猀栀漀攀猀 愀琀 倀攀渀渀猀椀挀 攀愀挀栀 礀攀愀爀ഊ> I always look to see if ਀㸀 瀀愀琀攀渀猀 愀爀攀 愀氀猀漀 愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀 愀琀 琀栀攀 洀攀爀挀栀愀渀琀 漀爀 椀昀 琀栀攀礀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 猀椀最渀 甀瀀ഊ> warning purchasers about the need to acquire wooden patens. ਀ഊActually, this is not entirely true. Pattens were not necessarily ਀眀漀爀渀 眀椀琀栀 愀氀氀 琀甀爀渀猀栀漀攀猀⸀ 䔀瘀攀渀 椀渀 琀栀攀 ㄀㐀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀 眀栀攀渀 瀀愀琀琀攀渀猀ഊwere most common in Europe, not everyone wore them all the time. ਀䄀渀搀 琀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 渀漀琀 攀瘀椀搀攀渀挀攀 昀漀爀 瀀愀琀琀攀渀猀 椀渀 攀瘀攀爀礀 琀椀洀攀 愀渀搀 瀀氀愀挀攀ഊthat turnshoes were worn. I wear my various styles of turnshoes ਀眀椀琀栀漀甀琀 瀀愀琀琀攀渀猀 愀渀搀 栀愀瘀攀 漀渀氀礀 眀漀爀渀 琀栀爀漀甀最栀 瀀愀爀琀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 猀琀椀琀挀栀椀渀最ഊon my oldest pair. ਀ഊYour shoes shouldn't be falling apart like that so quickly if they ਀愀爀攀 洀愀搀攀 挀漀爀爀攀挀琀氀礀⸀ 䤀琀 猀漀甀渀搀猀 愀猀 琀栀漀甀最栀 琀栀攀 猀琀椀琀挀栀攀猀 洀甀猀琀 戀攀 瘀椀猀椀戀氀攀ഊon the bottom of the sole, in which case, they aren't made correctly. ਀ഊI would glue or stitch on a second sole. It is a period solution ਀⠀琀栀攀 猀琀椀琀挀栀椀渀最 愀渀礀眀愀礀Ⰰ 琀栀漀甀最栀 礀漀甀 挀愀渀✀琀 琀攀氀氀 漀渀挀攀 椀琀 椀猀 搀漀渀攀⤀Ⰰഊit is easy, and it'll give you more protection from rocks anyway. ਀ഊVitale wrote: ਀㸀 伀渀 琀栀攀 琀漀瀀椀挀 漀昀 瀀愀琀琀攀渀猀⸀ 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 眀漀爀渀 琀栀攀洀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 昀椀渀搀 琀栀攀礀 愀爀攀ഊ> clumsy to get about in. ਀㸀ഊ> I was wondering. Where leather soled pattens ever used? ਀㸀 䔀愀猀礀 琀漀 洀愀欀攀 愀渀搀 猀氀椀瀀 漀渀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀礀 瀀爀漀琀攀挀琀 琀栀攀 猀栀漀攀猀⸀ഊ ਀䤀 爀攀挀愀氀氀 猀攀攀椀渀最 愀 瀀愀琀琀攀渀 洀愀搀攀 漀昀 洀甀氀琀椀瀀氀攀 猀琀愀挀欀攀搀 氀愀礀攀爀猀 漀昀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀ഊsewn together for the sole, with the usual straps. It ਀眀愀猀 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 椀渀 ∀匀栀漀攀猀 愀渀搀 倀愀琀琀攀渀猀∀⸀  䤀琀 氀漀漀欀攀搀 瘀攀爀礀 ㄀㤀㜀　✀猀℀ഊ ਀䈀爀漀渀愀挀栀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 07:38:09 EDT ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 㰀䐀椀愀渀愀䘀椀漀渀愀 愀琀 愀漀氀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊTo: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀栀漀攀洀愀欀椀渀最 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀ഊ ਀倀攀琀攀爀⸀䜀爀漀漀戀礀 愀琀 琀爀椀洀戀氀攀⸀挀漀⸀渀稀 眀爀椀琀攀猀㨀ഊ<< On the topic of pattens. I have worn them, but find they are clumsy to get ਀ 愀戀漀甀琀 椀渀⸀ഊ ਀ 䤀 眀愀猀 眀漀渀搀攀爀椀渀最⸀ 圀栀攀爀攀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀 猀漀氀攀搀 瀀愀琀琀攀渀猀 攀瘀攀爀 甀猀攀搀㼀 䔀愀猀礀 琀漀 洀愀欀攀 愀渀搀ഊ slip on and they protect the shoes. ਀ഊ sort of like leather Dr.Scholl sandles. ਀ഊ Vitale ਀  㸀㸀ഊ Yes, I seem to recall pictures of at least one from the Shoes and ਀倀愀琀琀攀渀猀 戀漀漀欀⸀ 倀爀攀琀琀礀 洀甀挀栀 眀栀愀琀 礀漀甀 洀椀最栀琀 攀砀瀀攀挀琀ⴀⴀ猀琀愀挀欀猀 漀昀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀 猀攀眀渀 愀氀漀渀最ഊthe edges, with strategically placed straps, the ends of which were sewn ਀戀攀琀眀攀攀渀 琀栀攀 氀愀礀攀爀猀⸀ 䈀攀猀琀 䤀 挀愀渀 爀攀洀攀洀戀攀爀 琀栀攀 猀琀爀愀瀀猀 猀攀攀洀攀搀 愀 戀椀琀 猀欀椀洀瀀礀 琀漀 洀攀Ⰰഊcertainly not as secure as I'd prefer (Low across the toe, perhaps a back ਀猀琀爀愀瀀 琀栀愀琀 搀椀搀渀✀琀 昀愀猀琀攀渀 愀琀 愀氀氀㼀 䈀甀琀 䤀 洀椀最栀琀 眀攀氀氀 戀攀 挀漀渀昀甀猀椀渀最 琀栀攀洀 眀椀琀栀ഊanother photo, too.). I'll try to go look the picture(s) up soon, if no none ਀戀攀愀琀猀 洀攀 琀漀 椀琀⸀⸀⸀⸀⸀⸀⸀⸀⸀⸀⸀⸀ 㨀ⴀ⤀ഊ ਀                                䰀搀礀 䐀椀愀渀愀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 08:52:49 -0400 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䴀攀氀愀渀椀攀 圀椀氀猀漀渀 㰀䴀攀氀愀渀椀攀圀椀氀猀漀渀 愀琀 挀漀洀瀀甀猀攀爀瘀攀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊTo: "INTERNET:sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu" ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 匀栀漀攀洀愀欀椀渀最 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀ഊ ਀㰀㰀㰀 吀栀攀 猀漀氀甀琀椀漀渀 眀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 琀漀 眀攀愀爀 眀漀漀搀攀渀 瀀愀琀攀渀猀 愀猀 眀愀猀 搀漀渀攀 搀甀爀椀渀最 琀栀攀 洀椀搀搀氀攀 愀最攀猀⸀ 吀栀攀猀攀 猀栀漀攀猀 眀攀爀攀 渀漀琀 眀漀爀渀 戀礀 琀栀攀洀猀攀氀瘀攀猀⸀ 䤀 愀洀 猀甀爀瀀爀椀猀攀搀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 ഊshoemaker didn't instruct you on how they would have been worn. >>> ਀ഊOnly later on, I do 13th C and strictly speaking there were only few ਀瀀愀琀琀攀渀猀Ⰰ ⠀椀攀 琀栀攀礀 眀攀爀攀 樀甀猀琀 挀漀洀椀渀最 椀渀⤀ 戀甀琀 䤀 琀攀渀搀 琀漀 眀攀愀爀 洀椀渀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀ഊwinter, rain or mud from place to place but not in sun or indoors. I've yet ਀琀漀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 猀攀愀洀 最漀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀 眀攀愀爀猀 漀甀琀 瀀爀椀漀爀 琀漀 琀栀愀琀 猀漀 䤀 挀愀渀✀琀 漀昀昀攀爀ഊanything. However is the seam going under when you walk ie getting ਀眀攀愀爀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 最爀漀甀渀搀 㼀 䄀爀攀 琀栀攀猀攀 琀甀爀渀 猀栀漀攀猀 㼀 䠀漀眀 搀漀 礀漀甀爀 渀漀爀洀愀氀 猀栀漀攀猀ഊwear, look at the wear patterns & see if they are similar or is the leather ਀琀漀漀 琀栀椀挀欀 㼀ഊ ਀䴀攀氀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 08:52:47 -0400 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䴀攀氀愀渀椀攀 圀椀氀猀漀渀 㰀䴀攀氀愀渀椀攀圀椀氀猀漀渀 愀琀 挀漀洀瀀甀猀攀爀瘀攀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊTo: "INTERNET:sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu" ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 倀愀琀琀攀渀猀ഊ ਀㰀㰀㰀 圀栀攀爀攀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀 猀漀氀攀搀 瀀愀琀琀攀渀猀 攀瘀攀爀 甀猀攀搀㼀 䔀愀猀礀 琀漀 洀愀欀攀 愀渀搀ഊslip on and they protect the shoes. >>> ਀ഊThere are some that are leather stitched together to make a thick block, ਀戀甀琀 䤀✀瘀攀 渀漀琀 栀攀愀爀搀 漀昀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀 猀漀氀攀搀 眀漀漀搀攀渀 漀渀攀猀 ℀ഊ ਀䠀漀眀攀瘀攀爀 䤀 爀攀愀搀 猀漀洀攀眀栀攀爀攀 琀栀攀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀 漀渀攀猀 洀椀最栀琀 戀攀 渀攀愀爀攀爀 猀愀渀搀愀氀猀 琀栀愀渀ഊpattens ਀ഊMel ਀ഊ ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 娀攀戀攀攀 䨀漀栀渀猀琀漀渀攀 㰀稀攀戀攀攀樀 愀琀 最洀愀椀氀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 瀀愀琀琀攀渀猀ഊDate: 23 May 2007 05:41:02 GMT ਀ഊAs Rowany Festival is moving to a new, probably wet, site I am ਀椀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀攀搀 椀渀 洀愀欀椀渀最 瀀愀琀琀攀渀猀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀攀爀攀 猀攀攀洀猀 琀漀 戀攀 琀眀漀 琀礀瀀攀猀 ⴀ 琀栀攀 欀椀渀搀 眀椀琀栀 愀 栀攀攀氀 猀琀爀愀瀀 愀渀搀 愀 栀椀渀最攀ഊunder the toes, and the kind with just a strap over the forefoot. ਀ഊAnyone have any ideas of the pros and cons of these? Is one ਀搀攀昀椀渀椀琀攀氀礀 攀愀猀椀攀爀 琀漀 眀攀愀爀 琀栀愀渀 琀栀攀 漀琀栀攀爀㼀  ഊ ਀䴀礀 椀渀猀琀椀渀挀琀 椀猀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 洀漀爀攀 挀漀洀瀀氀攀砀 漀渀攀 眀椀氀氀 猀琀愀礀 漀渀 戀攀琀琀攀爀 愀渀搀 挀漀瀀攀ഊwith more energetic movements, and the simpler one is cheaper to make ਀猀漀 瀀漀猀猀椀戀氀礀 洀漀爀攀 挀漀洀洀漀渀⸀ഊ ਀匀椀氀昀爀攀渀ഊ ਀ഊFrom: Par ਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: Re: pattens ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 ㈀㘀 䴀愀礀 ㈀　　㜀 　㔀㨀㈀㔀㨀　㈀ 䜀䴀吀ഊ ਀娀攀戀攀攀 䨀漀栀渀猀琀漀渀攀 㰀稀攀戀攀攀樀 愀琀 最洀愀椀氀⸀挀漀洀㸀㨀ഊ> There seems to be two types - the kind with a heel strap and a hinge ਀㸀  甀渀搀攀爀 琀栀攀 琀漀攀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 欀椀渀搀 眀椀琀栀 樀甀猀琀 愀 猀琀爀愀瀀 漀瘀攀爀 琀栀攀 昀漀爀攀昀漀漀琀⸀ഊ> ਀㸀  䄀渀礀漀渀攀 栀愀瘀攀 愀渀礀 椀搀攀愀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 瀀爀漀猀 愀渀搀 挀漀渀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀猀攀㼀  䤀猀 漀渀攀ഊ> definitely easier to wear than the other? ਀ഊI've never used either kind myself, but I'm told that people here in ਀匀挀愀渀搀椀渀愀瘀椀愀 琀栀愀琀 最爀攀眀 甀瀀 眀攀愀爀椀渀最 挀氀漀最猀 眀椀琀栀 猀漀氀椀搀 眀漀漀搀 戀漀琀琀漀洀猀 愀渀搀ഊleather tops have no serious problems with the latter type. I never wore ਀琀栀攀洀 攀渀漀甀最栀 琀漀 最攀琀 琀栀攀 栀愀渀最 漀昀 椀琀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 琀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 搀攀昀椀渀椀琀攀氀礀 愀 琀爀椀挀欀 琀漀ഊwalking (or running) with clogs ਀ഊSee http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clog_(shoe), the one that was very ਀挀漀洀洀漀渀 眀栀攀渀 䤀 眀愀猀 礀漀甀渀最 ⠀㄀㤀㜀　✀猀⤀ 眀愀猀 琀栀攀 琀礀瀀攀 猀栀漀眀渀 愀猀 ∀䴀漀搀攀爀渀 ✀匀眀攀搀椀猀栀✀ഊclog". ਀ഊ/UlfR ਀ 最漀攀猀 戀愀爀攀昀漀漀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀 眀攀琀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 椀猀 愀氀猀漀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀ഊ ਀ഊFrom: Gillian de Chelseye ਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: Re: Inexpensive Pattens ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ ㄀㜀 䄀瀀爀 ㈀　　㠀 　㘀㨀㌀㄀㨀㌀㈀ ⴀ　㜀　　 ⠀倀䐀吀⤀ഊ ਀㰀猀渀椀瀀㸀ഊ> Does anyone know where I could obtain (whether in person or online) a ਀㸀 瀀愀椀爀 漀昀 眀漀漀搀攀渀 漀爀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀 瀀愀琀琀攀渀猀 椀渀 猀椀稀攀 ㄀　 愀渀搀 愀 栀愀氀昀 昀漀爀 甀渀搀攀爀 ␀㐀㔀ഊ> US? ਀ഊLady Oren has them as low as 48 bucks, but she also does custom work ਀琀漀漀Ⰰ 猀漀 椀昀 礀漀甀 攀洀愀椀氀 栀攀爀Ⰰ 猀栀攀 挀漀甀氀搀 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 搀漀 琀栀攀洀 昀漀爀 㐀㔀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 琀栀愀琀ഊdoesn't include shipping. http://www.ladyorensmedievalshoes.com/Patten-Soles.html ਀ഊIf you're in west Michigan, I know for a fact that there are wood- ਀挀愀爀瘀攀爀猀 愀渀搀 眀漀漀搀 眀漀爀欀攀爀猀 椀渀 礀漀甀爀 愀爀攀愀⸀  䤀昀 渀漀琀Ⰰ 䤀 欀渀漀眀 漀昀 洀愀渀礀 椀渀 琀栀攀ഊBarony of Northwoods, in Lansing and surrounding areas. Try your ਀氀漀挀愀氀 最爀漀甀瀀 愀最愀椀渀⸀  䤀✀氀氀 最甀愀爀愀渀琀攀攀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀礀 栀愀瘀攀 愀琀 氀攀愀猀琀 漀渀攀 瀀攀爀猀漀渀ഊwho can help you draft a pattern, cut it out, and tack on the leather ਀昀漀爀 瀀愀琀琀攀渀猀⸀  伀爀 洀愀欀攀 琀栀攀洀 昀漀爀 礀漀甀 昀漀爀 琀爀愀搀攀 漀爀 愀 挀栀攀愀瀀攀爀 瀀爀椀挀攀 椀昀 礀漀甀ഊsweep the wood shop floor or something. ਀ഊI've never made a pair myself, but they are supposedly surprisingly ਀攀愀猀礀 琀漀 洀愀欀攀⸀  夀漀甀 挀愀渀 愀氀猀漀 琀爀礀 琀栀攀 夀愀栀漀漀℀ 最爀漀甀瀀ഊ"medievalshoemaking". They have all sorts of past discussions on ਀瀀愀琀琀攀渀猀⸀  吀栀攀礀 洀愀礀 戀攀 愀戀氀攀 琀漀 搀椀爀攀挀琀 礀漀甀爀 猀攀愀爀挀栀 愀猀 眀攀氀氀⸀ഊ ਀夀漀甀 挀愀渀 愀氀猀漀 攀洀愀椀氀 洀攀 漀昀昀 氀椀猀琀 椀昀 礀漀甀 眀漀甀氀搀 氀椀欀攀 琀漀 戀攀 瀀甀琀 椀渀 琀漀甀挀栀ഊwith some people in this area that may be able to help you. ਀ഊGillian de Chelseye ਀䐀攀瀀甀琀礀 䌀栀爀漀渀椀挀氀攀爀Ⰰ 䌀愀渀琀漀渀 漀昀 䔀愀氀搀渀漀爀搀眀甀搀愀ഊhttp://adventuresingarb.blogspot.com ਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀昀氀攀洀椀猀栀最愀爀戀⸀戀氀漀最猀瀀漀琀⸀挀漀洀ഊhttp://downwithwench.blogspot.com ਀ഊ ਀䔀搀椀琀攀搀 戀礀 䴀愀爀欀 匀⸀䠀愀爀爀椀猀ऀ瀀愀琀琀攀渀猀ⴀ挀栀瀀渀猀ⴀ洀猀最ऀ倀愀最攀 㘀 漀昀 㘀ഊ ਊ