pattens-chpns-msg - 3/6/09
Medieval pattens and chopines.
Pattens - wooden cutouts in the shapeof the shoe s sole, which were strapped on over the lighter, slipper-like shoes worn indoors.
Chopines - Open backed shoes with tall wooden soles.
NOTE: See also the files: shoes-msg, p-shoes-msg, shoemaking-msg, leather-msg, hose-msg, headgear-msg, hose-manu-MA-art, boots-msg, 2Shod-a-Shire-art.
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From: sclark at blues.epas.utoronto.ca (Susan Carroll-Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Heels not period? Pft!
Date: 24 Dec 1994 03:52:05 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto -- EPAS
Greetings!
Now, I don't know much about heels. But I do know about pattens
and chopines. The former are wooden cutouts in the shape
of the shoe s sole, which were strapped on over the lighter, slipper-like
shoes worn indoors. The latter look a lot like traditional
clogs or mules--open backed. Except that the sole was made of wood
(carved out to decrease the weight) and was TALL! The ones
I've seen in the Bata shoe museum are about 8 or 10 inches high;
there are apparently records of this type of shoe being up to 18 inches
high, such that the ladies who wore them had to be supported on
both sides while walking!
Pattens date back at least to the 13th or 14th century, maybe
even earlier. Chopines came into fashion in the late 15th century
and reached their extremes in 16th century Italy.
If you'd like more info, the local expert in chopines is
Madinia, a fine costumer and a Mistress of the Laurel. E-mail me
and I'll get you in touch.
Cheers!
Nicolaa/Susan
Canton of Eoforwic
sclark at epas.utoronto.ca
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ederd at bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Dani Eder)
Subject: Re: Period Footwear!
Organization: The Boeing Company
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 22:13:02 GMT
mittle at panix.com (Arval d'Espas Nord) writes:
> Some medieval people had bad feet. Medieval people wore shoes. Is it
> reasonable to believe that they had _no_ solution to the problem of
> making comfortable shoes for people with bad feet?
>It may be true that they did not; but that strikes me, in my ignorance, as
>unlikely. It sounds like the same sort of claim as the one about using
>spices to cover the taste of spoiled meat. Just because we have a modern
>solution to a problem does not mean that our ancestors didn't have a
>_different_ solution to the problem.
In the book 'Shoes and Pattens', describing footwear found in London
when excavating for modern buildings, a fair percentage of feet were
deformed as determined by wear patterns in the shoes. Whether the
deformities came first, or whether bad shoes caused them is not
known to me.
One thing to note, though, is that the 'shoe' would be the equivalent
of a house slipper. The 'patten', made of multiple layers of leather
or pieces of wood fastened with leather, was worn over the shoe when
going outdoors. I have yet to notice an SCA person wearing such a
combination (perhaps someone else has), and they would offer more
opportunity for foo support than a single layer of leather does.
Daniel of Raven's Nest
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 07:31:06 -0400
From: STIS Data Analyst <gonnella at stsci.edu>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: SCA-ARTS digest 837
Ras wrote:
> .... These shoes were not worn by themselves. I am surprised that the
> shoemaker didn't instruct you on how they would have been worn.
> Whenever I look for period type shoes at Pennsic each year
> I always look to see if
> patens are also available at the merchant or if they have a sign up
> warning purchasers about the need to acquire wooden patens.
Actually, this is not entirely true. Pattens were not necessarily
worn with all turnshoes. Even in the 14th century when pattens
were most common in Europe, not everyone wore them all the time.
And there is not evidence for pattens in every time and place
that turnshoes were worn. I wear my various styles of turnshoes
without pattens and have only worn through parts of the stitching
on my oldest pair.
Your shoes shouldn't be falling apart like that so quickly if they
are made correctly. It sounds as though the stitches must be visible
on the bottom of the sole, in which case, they aren't made correctly.
I would glue or stitch on a second sole. It is a period solution
(the stitching anyway, though you can't tell once it is done),
it is easy, and it'll give you more protection from rocks anyway.
Vitale wrote:
> On the topic of pattens. I have worn them, but find they are
> clumsy to get about in.
>
> I was wondering. Where leather soled pattens ever used?
> Easy to make and slip on and they protect the shoes.
I recall seeing a patten made of multiple stacked layers of leather
sewn together for the sole, with the usual straps. It
was probably in "Shoes and Pattens". It looked very 1970's!
Bronach
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 07:38:09 EDT
From: <DianaFiona at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Shoemaking question
Peter.Grooby at trimble.co.nz writes:
<< On the topic of pattens. I have worn them, but find they are clumsy to get
about in.
I was wondering. Where leather soled pattens ever used? Easy to make and
slip on and they protect the shoes.
sort of like leather Dr.Scholl sandles.
Vitale
>>
Yes, I seem to recall pictures of at least one from the Shoes and
Pattens book. Pretty much what you might expect--stacks of leather sewn along
the edges, with strategically placed straps, the ends of which were sewn
between the layers. Best I can remember the straps seemed a bit skimpy to me,
certainly not as secure as I'd prefer (Low across the toe, perhaps a back
strap that didn't fasten at all? But I might well be confusing them with
another photo, too.). I'll try to go look the picture(s) up soon, if no none
beats me to it............ :-)
Ldy Diana
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 08:52:49 -0400
From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Shoemaking question
<<< The solution would be to wear wooden patens as was done during the middle ages. These shoes were not worn by themselves. I am surprised that the
shoemaker didn't instruct you on how they would have been worn. >>>
Only later on, I do 13th C and strictly speaking there were only few
pattens, (ie they were just coming in) but I tend to wear mine in the
winter, rain or mud from place to place but not in sun or indoors. I've yet
to have a seam go, the leather wears out prior to that so I can't offer
anything. However is the seam going under when you walk ie getting
wear from the ground ? Are these turn shoes ? How do your normal shoes
wear, look at the wear patterns & see if they are similar or is the leather
too thick ?
Mel
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 08:52:47 -0400
From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Pattens
<<< Where leather soled pattens ever used? Easy to make and
slip on and they protect the shoes. >>>
There are some that are leather stitched together to make a thick block,
but I've not heard of leather soled wooden ones !
However I read somewhere the leather ones might be nearer sandals than
pattens
Mel
From: Zebee Johnstone <zebeej at gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: pattens
Date: 23 May 2007 05:41:02 GMT
As Rowany Festival is moving to a new, probably wet, site I am
interested in making pattens.
There seems to be two types - the kind with a heel strap and a hinge
under the toes, and the kind with just a strap over the forefoot.
Anyone have any ideas of the pros and cons of these? Is one
definitely easier to wear than the other?
My instinct is that the more complex one will stay on better and cope
with more energetic movements, and the simpler one is cheaper to make
so possibly more common.
Silfren
From: Par <usenet at hunter-gatherer.org>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: pattens
Date: 26 May 2007 05:25:02 GMT
Zebee Johnstone <zebeej at gmail.com>:
> There seems to be two types - the kind with a heel strap and a hinge
> under the toes, and the kind with just a strap over the forefoot.
>
> Anyone have any ideas of the pros and cons of these? Is one
> definitely easier to wear than the other?
I've never used either kind myself, but I'm told that people here in
Scandinavia that grew up wearing clogs with solid wood bottoms and
leather tops have no serious problems with the latter type. I never wore
them enough to get the hang of it, but there is definitely a trick to
walking (or running) with clogs
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clog_(shoe), the one that was very
common when I was young (1970's) was the type shown as "Modern 'Swedish'
clog".
/UlfR
goes barefoot in the wet, which is also period
From: Gillian de Chelseye <msilsby43 at gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Inexpensive Pattens
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 06:31:32 -0700 (PDT)
<snip>
> Does anyone know where I could obtain (whether in person or online) a
> pair of wooden or leather pattens in size 10 and a half for under $45
> US? <snip>
Lady Oren has them as low as 48 bucks, but she also does custom work
too, so if you email her, she could probably do them for 45, but that
doesn't include shipping. http://www.ladyorensmedievalshoes.com/Patten-Soles.html
If you're in west Michigan, I know for a fact that there are wood-
carvers and wood workers in your area. If not, I know of many in the
Barony of Northwoods, in Lansing and surrounding areas. Try your
local group again. I'll guarantee that they have at least one person
who can help you draft a pattern, cut it out, and tack on the leather
for pattens. Or make them for you for trade or a cheaper price if you
sweep the wood shop floor or something.
I've never made a pair myself, but they are supposedly surprisingly
easy to make. You can also try the Yahoo! group
"medievalshoemaking". They have all sorts of past discussions on
pattens. They may be able to direct your search as well.
You can also email me off list if you would like to be put in touch
with some people in this area that may be able to help you.
Gillian de Chelseye
Deputy Chronicler, Canton of Ealdnordwuda
http://adventuresingarb.blogspot.com
http://flemishgarb.blogspot.com
http://downwithwench.blogspot.com
<the end>