fasteners-msg - 5/31/01
Clothing fasteners, buttons, lacings, frogs.
NOTE: See also the files: trim-msg, beads-msg, belts-msg, clothing-msg, clothing-bib, clothing-books-msg.
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Stefan at florilegium.org
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[Messages with <EB> near the date were submitted to me by Mistress
Elizabeth Braidwood, An Tir] - editor.
From: rhe6 at quads.uchicago.edu (mindy miriam rheingold)
Date: 19 Mar 91 02:06:12 GMT
Organization: University of Chicago
Two of the most common ways of fastening garments in the 14th century were
lacing and buttons. Garments were laced in a spiral fashion (for example;
in at the right hole, out at the left hole; in at the next right hole, etc)
rather than the cris-cross fashion used nowadays.
Buttons were made of wood, bone, various metals, semi-precious or
precious stones (if you were wealthy), and had toggles rather than
shanks. There has been, alas, no evidence found for button loops,
so if you wanna be really medieval, you needs must sew button holes
(They're not too bad if you machine sew them).
I would guess, though I am not certain, that ties and buckles would
be more commonly used in fastening armor than in fastening clothes.
One more note--lacing was done from bottom to top.
Madeleine
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: sherman at trln.lib.unc.edu (dennis r. sherman)
Subject: Re: Buttons
Organization: Triangle Research Libraries Network
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1993 22:22:09 GMT
Philippa d'Ecosse writes:
>I'm not all that good at tying bows with my teeth, I wondered if
>some sort of button might be acceptably period.
Geoff Egan and Frances Pritchard, _Dress Accessories c.1150-c.1450,
Medieval Finds from Excavations in London vol.3_, London: HMSO, 1991.
ISBN 0 11 29044 0
Find this book!!! Available from HMSO bookshops, but you have to call
London to order, and its the most expensive paperback book I've ever
bought. If you want to call -- country code + 071-873-9090, I think
its a 24 hour order line.
Note from the title that this book deals with London in a restricted
range of years -- that doesn't mean other times and places didn't use
similar stuff, but you can't prove it from this source.
Brief notes from chapter on buttons:
- buttons probably came into common use in England and Europe in the
early 13th century
- excavated buttons generally fall in three categories:
*cast, usually solid lead/tin with integral shanks, or bronze
with embedded wire shanks
*composite sheeting, made of two stamped pieces of copper alloy
soldered together and wire shank soldered in place
*cloth, bunch of scrap cloth sewn into ball
- buttons vary in size from 8mm to 15.5mm diameter for the metal,
4mm-6mm for round cloth, 14mm-35mm for loose, flat cloth, which may
have had a stiffener inside
--
Robyyan Torr d'Elandris Kapellenberg, Windmaster's Hill Atlantia
--------------------------------------
Dennis R. Sherman Triangle Research Libraries Network
dennis_sherman at unc.edu Univ. of North Carolina - Chapel Hill
From: PRIEST at vaxsar.vassar.EDU (CAROLYN PRIEST-DORMAN)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Buttons
Date: 10 Apr 1993 21:41:35 -0400
Organization: The Internet
Unto the Fishyfolk of the Rialto, greeting from Thora Sharptooth!
For the lady that asked about buttons: cast bronze shanked buttons exist from
ninth- and tenth-century Birka (Sweden). The buttons themselves were about the
size of small, shelled hazelnuts, while the shanks were about as long again as
the buttons and were pierced with one hole each. The buttons were used on
men's overcoats.
Early Anglian women's underdresses sometimes had metal wrist-cuffs to keep the
sleeves from flopping. They were two flat plates, one with a hooked lip and
one with a slit, which were sewn to the sleeve or to a tablet-woven cuff. A
similar type of clasp is known from fifth-century Norway in the Evebo jarl's
grave.
E-mail me for sources....
****************************************************************************
Thora Sharptooth Frosted Hills East Kingdom
Carolyn Priest-Dorman Poughkeepsie, NY priest at vassar.edu
****************************************************************************
From: ayotte at milo.UUCP (Robert Arthur Ayotte)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Buttons
Date: 28 Jul 1994 06:11:37 -0400
Organization: the internet
In article <9407271846.aa27423 at mc.lcs.mit.edu> you wrote:
: (could be a "You Know You're In The SCA When...")
: A couple of days back, I was looking for buttons for a doublet. I was
: pretty picky. I didn't want anything too shiny, I didn't want anything
: looking too dirty, I didn't want anything too big, I wanted something
: pretty flat, I wanted something that went with the costume, and I wanted
: it to look mediaeval.
: Eventually I found one set of lovely silver/plated buttons, in great
: enough quantities for my purpose (a doublet.) They satisfied everything
: above. Unfortunately the design on them was a pentacle/pentagram (can't
: remember which is which) inside a laurel wreath...
: --
: Geoffrey the Quiet (gbrent at rsc.anu.edu.au)
: who found some other really nice buttons without these problems
: eventually.
I have a source for buttons in lead free pewter, they are even
willing to do cusom work or take designs and not charge the custom
molding costs with a large enough order.
All you need to do is send them a period example or photo, or a
drawing or idea and the artist there (Nancy) will work up the design
and get back with you before production. Costs are very low (for existing
researched buttons ranging in period but many taken from molds made
from originals in museums they range from $2 to $7.50 a doz.
They also have buckles and medallions, and do quite a bit of custom
work at reasonable prices. They also carry pewter reproductions of
pieces of 8! They also have some BRASS BUTTONS.
Did I mention they also do some later period shoes?????
The company is called Fugawee Corp, and their number is 1-800-749-0387
Address
3127 Corrib Drive
Tallahassee, FL, 32308
Consider getting a set of buttons with the Kingdom's device, or
enough for a household of later period folks. They are re-enactors and take
great care with detail.
Horace of Northshield
From: iys6lri at mvs.oac.ucla.edu (Lori Iversen)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Fast-and-dirty renfair costumes
Date: 7 Feb 1995 00:14:50 GMT
Organization: ucla
In article <3h3s4v$3td at newsbf02.news.aol.com>, connect at aol.com (CONNECT) says:
>
>>>>Alizaunde, Demoiselle de Bregeuf C.O.L. SCA says:
>
>Don't use metal eyelets- they pull out, scratch, and aren't historically
>correct anyway.<<<
>
>Have you read Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion? In it, she shows metal
>eyelets. [small snip on how to install 'em]
>Yours in Service,
>Rosalyn MacGregor of Glen Orchy
>Pattie Rayl of Cynnabar
>
>* Patricia Snyder-Rayl * (313) 973-8825
>* CONNECT Magazine * (800) GET-CONNECT
>*Covering Commercial Online Services,* (313) 973-0411 fax
>* the Internet, and BBS Networks * (313) 973-9137 BBS
Alexis here!
Arnold does indeed carry photos of metal eyelets in Elizabethan garb.
She also notes in her text that these eyelets were overcast with thread,
which makes them look a lot like itty bitty button holes -- which is
another option for lacing: set your buttonholer on its smallest size
(or measure your holes no longer than 3/8") and stitch away; don't
space your eyelets or buttonholes any further apart than 1". And
you *must* put some kind of boning (even if it's just featherweight,
although spring steel stays are better) between your lacing holes and
the edge of your bodice; otherwise you end up with unsightly gapes all
the way down your chest.
Good luck!
Alexis Vladescu Lori Iversen
WyvernHo-ette (IYS6LRI at mvs.oac.ucla.edu)
Altavia, CAID The Valley, CA
From: mugjf at uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Gwyndlyn J Ferguson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: SCA Fallacies
Date: 7 Apr 1995 19:42:50 GMT
Organization: Educational Computing Network
With the idea in mind that out of context "factoids" can be just as
damaging as the fallacy in the first place, how about expanding from a
simple list of short sentences, to the short sentence followed by a brief
paragraph.
Example:
Buttons are period.
Most evidence shows that buttons were first used as fasteners on western
European clothing in the middle Thirteenth Century on men's tunics and women's gowns.
Archaeological evidence has found buttons on clothing from much earlier
on Anglo-Saxon tunics found in burial sites.
See, short and sweet, without the broad "its in period" generalization.
I can document this information from personal research and observation.
In fact, I have said this pretty much verbatim to members of my shire who
have asked me for costuming help. They now have an idea of time period
within "period" and location for what they want to do.
gf
--
*Gwyn Ferguson***Western Illinois University
*SCA: Lady Gwyndlyn Caer Vyrddin***Lochmorrow-Midrealm
*Internet: mugjf at bgu.edu
From: jennyb at pdd.3com.com (4/13/95)
To: markh at sphinx
RE>Period footwear...
>What are roll buttons? A strip of leather rolled into a roll with a cord
>tied around the middle?
You take a strip of leather 2 or three inches long and as wide as your
finger. Cut it so that it tapers to a point at one end of the strip
giving you a long thin triangle.
Roll the strip up from the fat end to the narrow end, when it's about
half rolled pierce a couple of slits in the rolled up bit and thread the
thin end of the triangle down through the first slit towards the centre
of the roll then up through the second slit out of the roll. Pull the
thin end hard so that you end up with a roll of leather on a short
tapering thong, (the tapering thong bit is your triangle's end).
This is your button, it is attached to your boot by piercing a small slit
in the boot pulling the thong through the hole & knotting it.
An alternative to knotting is splitting the thong in two, threading each
branch of the thong through a different hole in your boot then piercing
one branch of the thong & threading the other though it. This is less
bulky than a knot & hence comfier to have inside a boot.
Another alternative is to pierce the thong after it has been threaded
thorough the slit in the boot, & thread the thong through itself so it makes
a short loop.
> Do they fit into a slot cut in the opposite flap
>or into some sort of loop?
Both techniques are used, in Hedeby denmark some went through a slot in
a boot flap, in York, England some went through loops attached to the
end of a flap.
>Sounds like a good referance, except I don't read any German. Sigh.
It's got loads of diagrams & drawings which are useful even if you don't read
German, the full reference is:-
Series title: Ausgrabungen in Haithabu
Volume: Bericht 21
Volume title: Die Lederfunde von Haithabu
Author: Willy Groenman-van Waateringe
Publishers: Karl Wacholtz Verlag, Neumunster
ISSN: 0 525 5791
ISBN: 3 529 1921 6
I forgot to write the date down, I think it was 1984, but i wouldn't swear
to it.
Jennifer/Rannveik
From: ddfr at best.com (David Friedman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: period buttons
Date: 15 Oct 1995 04:30:48 GMT
Organization: Best Internet Communications
Constance Fairfax asks about buttons:
Look in the Museum of London _Dress Accessories_ book, pp. 272-280, for
lots of period buttons.
David/Cariadoc
--
ddfr at best.com
From: dickeney at access1.digex.net (Dick Eney)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: period buttons
Date: 15 Oct 1995 15:03:11 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
The museum book that accompanied the Irish Art exhibit (1970s tour of
USA) showed a metal shank button decorated with a triskele and apparently
intended to be inlaid with something; it was found in an eighth century
Irish context.
-- Tamar the Gypsy (sharing account dickeney at access.digex.nete)
From: dickeney at access1.digex.net (Dick Eney)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: If not buttonholes, then what?
Date: 18 Dec 1995 08:43:55 -0500
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
In article <francis-1712952227450001 at tigana.microserve.com>,
John [Francis] Stracke <francis at tigana.microserve.com> wrote:
>
>I'm finishing up my first cotehardie, sewing the buttons on, and I'm
>becoming dissatisfied with button-loop tape. I mean, it works (though it
>kind of limits the size of the buttons I can use, by how much it
>stretches), but it's obviously way out of period. I'm not sure how much
>that bothers me, since you can't see it behind the buttons (and the
>cotehardie's got a couple of more serious construction flaws, anyway ;-);
>but I'd like to do something more authentic next time if I can.
>
>So what did they do? I've heard buttonholes are OOP;
Buttonholes are not OOP.
>I'm envisaging button
>loops done with thread or thin ribbon, but I'm not sure how well that'll
>work, without elastic.
I've done it; you have to know what size buttons you're going to use
before you make the loops. (I used thin cord--stronger than thread and
ribbon.)
>The Known World Handbook, from which I'm doing the
>cotehardie, just says "a row of buttons", without mentioning details;
>_20,000 Years of Fashion_ doesn't seem to mention buttons at all (though I
>do see one cotehardie illustration where they're obviously there [#315, p.
>178]).
>
Try some other costume books if you can find them. Carl Kohler's History
of Costume is still available from Dover books, if your library is
deficient. Also look at art books for portraits in your period; and
don't ignore books of religious art, since paintings done during the
Renaissance usually costumed everyone in standard clothing of the date of
the painting.
>Also, what sort of buttons are acceptable? I'm pretty sure little white
>balls are OK, but they're kind of boring. :-)
Shank buttons are definitely ok. Gold filigree I think has been
mentioned also. A metal shank button found in Ireland (circa 8th Ct AD?)
had a triskele design probably originally inlaid with enamel (this from
the book of the Irish Art Exhibit that toured this country in the
seventies). I used small black buttons with slightly flat tops; not
necessarily period, but inconspicuous on a dark garment.
-- Tamar the Gypsy (sharing account dickeney at access.digex.net)
From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: If not buttonholes, then what?
Date: 18 Dec 1995 17:51:17 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
John [Francis] Stracke (francis at tigana.microserve.com) wrote:
: I'm finishing up my first cotehardie, sewing the buttons on, and I'm
: becoming dissatisfied with button-loop tape. I mean, it works (though it
...
: So what did they do? I've heard buttonholes are OOP;
Yikes! Who in the world told you that? Buttonholes are absolutely, most
definitely period, particularly for cotehardies. To wave one of my
all-time favorite books around ... check out the photographic evidence in
Crowfoot et al. "Textiles and Clothing" (Museum of London series). It
shows a number of edges of 14th century garments with numerous
buttonholes, worked in ... you guessed it, buttonhole stitch. They would
be worked through the main fabric and a facing -- in at least one example
the facing appears to have extended no farther than the edge of the
buttonholes. One of the most surprising details shown is that the edge of
the garment was often reinforced (since the buttonholes were often quite
close to the edge) by a narrow strip of tablet-weaving with the weft
thread being stitched through the edge of the garment on each pass.
(There's a diagram -- it makes much more sense when you've seen it.) The
book also gives detailed information on the construction of cloth buttons
often found on the same garments.
Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn
From: memorman at oldcolo.com (Mary Morman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: If not buttonholes, then what?
Date: 18 Dec 1995 20:48:40 GMT
Organization: Old Colorado City Communications (oldcolo.com - login "newuser")
John [Francis] Stracke (francis at tigana.microserve.com) wrote:
: So what did they do? I've heard buttonholes are OOP;
elaina here.
i too, had heard this rumor, but found concrete evidence to the
contrary at the museum of the city of paris (in paris) 18