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Medieval academic clothing.

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From: eabbott at unlinfo.unl.edu (eric abbott)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: medieval academic garb--??

Date: 16 Sep 1996 23:02:02 GMT

Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln

Patricia Hefner (HPGV80D at prodigy.com) wrote:

: Does anybody know how I might make some medieval academic garb? I'm not

: exactly sure what it looked like. It had some similarities to modern

: academic garb, but some differences as well. Advice, anybody? --Isabelle

: de Foix

In many woodcuts from the 14th - 16th centuries Academic garb is

shown. It may well have been based off the Justacorps or other similar

garment. If I can remember the sources I will post. My sugestion is to

look up books on academia in period to see if there are any written or

pictoral representations. I also know that in Spain Women professors

were allowed ( Foix was part of the Crown of Aragon's Power base for a

short while)

HL Salvador Paolo de Barcelona

Eric Abbott - Costuming Goob

eabbott at unlinfo.unl.edu

From: LIB_IMC at centum.utulsa.EDU (I. Marc Carlson)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: re: Medieval Academic garb--??

Date: 17 Sep 1996 00:39:22 -0400

Organization: The Internet

>Does anybody know how I might make some medieval academic garb? I'm not

>exactly sure what it looked like. It had some similarities to modern

>academic garb, but some differences as well. Advice, anybody?

Since during the Middle Ages, "academic costume" was undergoing serious

evolution from a Monk's habit to something we would recognize as scholastic

attire, it would really depend on *when* you wanted to dress.

I. Marc Carlson, Reference Librarian |LIB_IMC at CENTUM.UTULSA.EDU

Tulsa Community College, West Campus LRC|Sometimes known as:

Reference Tech. McFarlin Library | Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn

University of Tulsa, 2933 E. 6th St. | University of Northkeep

Tulsa, OK 74104-3123 (918) 631-3794 | Northkeepshire, Ansteorra

From: dickeney at access1.digex.net (Dick Eney)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: medieval academic garb--??

Date: 17 Sep 1996 12:56:29 -0400

Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA

Patricia Hefner (HPGV80D at prodigy.com) wrote:

: Does anybody know how I might make some medieval academic garb? I'm not

: exactly sure what it looked like. It had some similarities to modern

: academic garb, but some differences as well. Advice, anybody? --Isabelle

: de Foix

I believe Kohler specifies that, at least in Germany, there was a

distinction between conservative and academic medieval academic robes; I

think the conservatives had smoothly-inset sleeves and the radicals had

the sleeves pleated at the armhole. Otherwise they looked the same as

modern academic robes to me. Under the robe I believe they wore whatever

was standard at the time; the robe was the main item.

Kohler is still available from Dover books. But since it's a translation,

you may want to double-check places where he refers to what century

something is from; I recently learned that in German, "12th century" means

the 1200s, whereas in English it means the 1300s. This might explain some

of the places where Kohler seems to contradict others (and himself).

=Tamar the Gypsy (sharing account dickeney at access.digex.net)

From: jeffs at bu.edu (Jeff Suzuki)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: medieval academic garb--??

Date: 17 Sep 1996 20:45:27 GMT

Organization: Boston University

SGRANT at kentvm.kent.edu wrote:

: In all the materials I have read concerning the academic garb I rent

: for graduations (I've got a Ph.D. and attend these things as part

: of my professorial duties) the manufactuers claim that the garb

: dates from Medieval times with very few changes, except perhaps

: for some standardization of the sleeve conventions and color codes.

The major change is that the mortarboard is out of period (though the

Ph.D. style tams are, so far as I've been able to determine).

This is all very good, because it will save me from having to rent

some icky polystery thing. Instead, I can make my own out of some

nice natural fabric that _breathes_...very useful for graduations that

occur on the hottest day of the year!

Jeffs/William

From: david_key at vnet.ibm.com (Dave Key)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: medieval academic garb--??

Date: 18 Sep 1996 06:57:40 GMT

Organization: IBM UK Laboratories Ltd.

In <51k18n$1bpq at useneta1.news.prodigy.com>, HPGV80D at prodigy.com (Patricia Hefner) writes:

>Does anybody know how I might make some medieval academic garb? I'm not

>exactly sure what it looked like. It had some similarities to modern

>academic garb, but some differences as well. Advice, anybody? --Isabelle

>de Foix

There are surviving dress regulations (internal Sumptuary Laws if you like)

which survive for some of the c15th English academic institutions ... my mind

has gone blank on precisely which ones ... but Eton & one of the Cambridge

Colleges spring to mind (they also have dress regulations for poor people).

I do have a copy of the regs. (not to hand though) which are in Latin ... a

friend was going to translate them ... but I could post them here if someone is

willing to do the translation???

Cheers

Dave

From: sclark at chass.utoronto.ca (Susan Carroll-Clark)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: medieval academic garb--??

Date: 18 Sep 1996 19:54:29 -0400

Organization: University of Toronto -- EPAS

Greetings!

None of the relavant books are at hand, but here's a summary of what I found

out when doing a bit of research on the topic:

The current academic gown is fairly close in form to the 16th century schaube

or gown, and the mortarboard is a descendant of the biretta, the "scholar's

hat" of the Middle Ages which is part of the distinctive dress of scholars

(masters, in particular) as early as the 13th century. Of course, it isn't

the covered hunk of cardboard seen today, but a softer four-cornered hat.

The gowns, as mentioned earlier, evolve from monastic garb. In my period

(the 13th century), the scholar's gown is essentially a poncho-like hooded

garment with two slits in the front for hands. Eventually, the gown grows

sleeves and the hood becomes detachable (whence the academic hoods seen

today), and at some point (probably the late 13th-14th century) it begins

to have a front closure.

Isabelle, your best bet is to find depictions of scholars in illuminations

or paintings of scholar saints in your period of choice, and go from there.

Cheers--

Nicolaa de Bracton

sclark at chass.utoronto.ca

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: tip at ai.chem.ohiou.edu (Tom Perigrin)

Subject: Re: medieval academic garb--??

Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 19:27:33 GMT

Unto Isabelle, and unto Nicolaa, and unto the Rialto, doth Thomas Ignatius

Perigrinus, Graciously called "Doctor" by Her Majesty, send his greetings,

Good My Ladies,

An it doth please thee, I would wish to tell thee that in our modern

times, to wit, the mundane times of the 20 century, that the Schools of

Oxford and Cambridge do have many and numerous gowns, and that the right

and perogatives to them are governed by rule and by custom that do descend

unto them from our good and gracious times. To wit, a beginning scholiard

hath one form, which is short upon the back, and doth have no sleeves. A

more advanced scholiard doth have a gown which is longer upon the back, but

is still plain and without sleeves. As students do progress, they do earn

the rights to pleats, but an I remember me aright, ne'er the right to

embroidery. Masters do have sleeves, although the style and embroidery

doth vary depnding upon which school and advancement the master doth claim.

Doctors do have much greater embroidery, and sleeves, and various pleats

and folds that a Master may not have, and the hood according unto their

studies. And so forth, and such, until we do acheive unto the rank of

Chancellor, who doth have ermine and gold, and purple and many glorious and

wondrous materials upon his most August Personage.

I do tell thee this, so that thou mayest be aware when thou dost look upon

a painting or an illumination, that there may be many things displayed upon

the robe that we might not know of - college, discipline, rank and station

amongst them. And that thus knowing, thou art aware so that thou mayest

take steps so as to display the rank and status that thou dost wish upon...

for that it would be ill an thou dost wish to be Master and dost dress as

scholiard, or that thou dost claim but scholiard, and doth take the

sumptuary of a Dean.

Ifaith, I fear me that I have but cast mud into the waters, and have not

clarified much at all.. and for this, I do apologize unto thee. But, I

pray, that by knowing that the matter is thus complex, thou cans't steer

more surely unto thy goal... and that, good My Ladies, was my goal, and

thus, with that, I shall close,

remaining ever thy humble servant,

Thomas Ignatius Perigrinus

Scholar, and by the Grace of Her Majesty, Doctor

From: tip at ai.chem.ohiou.edu (Tom Perigrin)

To: Mark S. Harris

Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 09:53:21 -0400

Subject: Re: medieval academic garb--??

>Thank you for an excellant and interesting article. But how much of this

>did exist before 1600? Although it is likely most or all of it did, it

>could be newer, too. Any idea?

I only have one hard data point, and I don't have the book to hand. I

remember reading in a very dry and dull book that was the transcription of

the records of a student/cleric, that when he passed his Thesis

Dissertation, he had to pay some 2 shillings, 6 pence for his "Masters

robes". BUT, that could just be that his student ones were torn and

dirty...

>Also, when were the robes worn? Only at graduation? In class only? Or

>all the time? For the usual SCA event, I'm not sure why they would be

>worn, but it might be interesting for an Academy or other classes.

In modern Oxford academic gowns are worn for all University functions...

I.e., classes (although that is falling by the way), meeting with your Don

in his office, eating in hall, sitting exams, etc.. And traveling too

and from such events.

Tom

From: tip at ai.chem.ohiou.edu (Tom Perigrin)

To: Mark Harris

Subject: Re: medieval academic garb-

Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 11:18:32 -0400

>Oh! I wouldn't have expected this, at least not today. Interesting. I'm

>still not sure why academic robes would be worn to a tournament or feast of

>the court, but I find it is certainly easier to justify now.

Well, first of all, don't forget that to a large extent the schools of "our

time" were associated directly or indirectly with the church, so that the

rules and traditions that would lead a Priest or a Bishop to wear clerical

gowns at almost all times would also lead a scholiard to wear academic

gowns at almost all times. A commoner who was in school or was a scholar

had higher status than a commoner who was not, and thus wearing one's

academic robes gave or reflected this status. It might be that a Noble

son of high rank may chose to wear academic fusc at school events, but to

wear Noble garb at others...

Thus, wearing of one's gown in daily life was a mark of this distinction.

Which had priviledges that had been won from the town. For example, the

students of Oxford had special priviledge w.r.t. eating and drinking, and

special price assurances, etc... Thus the wearing of the gown was a very

Good Idea, except during the anti-student riots that led to the St Aldates

Massacre of 12whatever....

And don't forget that Clerics, Scholiards, and Clercks were subject to

ecclesiastical law, and not common law. If a commoner was arrested he

would be thrown in the clink, and subjected to the rather harsh and brutal

punishments of the age. A student was a cleric, and was turned over to the

Dean, who imposed fines and punishments (such as saying prayers, copying

books, or working in the gardens). This made it advantageous to wear one's

gowns, as it meant that if caught in a problem, and apprehended, you would

be treated more lightly. (Which helped lead to the St Aldates massacre of

12whatever).

From: dmeehan at pmail.csun.edu (Dan Meehan)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: medieval academic garb--??

Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 07:46:23

Organization: CSU Northridge

In article <51nj2p$rca at useneta1.news.prodigy.com> HPGV80D at prodigy.com (Patricia Hefner) writes:

>Unfortunately, I didn't see very many pictures when I researched medieval

>academia for my CA. There were a few pictures that showed students

>sitting on floors listening to the masters and you can't see the masters

>well enough to see what their dress was like. I wonder what the origin of

>this dress was -- clerical vestments, perhaps? ---Isabelle

From what I remember reading in a book on source documents from the

University of Paris, scholars who were clerics wore the robes of their order,

while masters wore scarlet robes.

I also recall reading that laste period Italian doctoral students wore a

multicolored skullcap (the precursor to the modern graduation cap?)

Damien of Baden

Altavia/Caid

From: <hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: The wearing of Academic Robes

Date: 11 Jun 2000 20:13:43 GMT

Organization: University of California at Berkeley

Edessa SCA <edessasca at aol.com> wrote:

: OK. I might be opening up a whole NEW can of worms, but....

: What about the wearing of Academic robes (Bachelors', Masters' & Doctoral).

: It's very period. It's stood the test of time, because their still wearing

: them.

: Granted, I understand that if you wear a Masters' robe & are not a Master of

: the SCA, that will cause problems.

: But, what about the wearing of the Bachelors' & the Doctoral robes. If worn

: open, over one's garb (like a coat) it can be a nice addition to one's ensemble

: Also, granted, there are those people out there that think that you should only

: wear that particular type of garb, only if you've earned the right. But, I

: have earned all three degrees. Can I wear it?

: Why isn't this a more typical garb choice? Is there a rule about this too?

I suspect that wearing modern academic robes isn't a more common garb

choice for a couple of reasons. People tend to associate modern academic

robes with a modern setting and modern emotional resonances -- i.e., they

put your head in a very specific place, and that place isn't a historic

event. And secondly, your modern academic robe isn't a particularly

well-constructed piece of clothing -- setting aside the expensive

specially-made ones that professional academics sometimes purchase, modern

robes are pretty chintzy and flimsy. They look ok across the football

field and keep the rental price down, but that's about it.

Now, for someone who has reason to have purchased one of the

higher-quality, better-cosntructed academic gowns -- normally because they

have an academic position -- I would imagine that the mental and emotional

connections between wearing the gown and a clearly modern academic context

would be even stronger than for the average person.

It's also very much worth noting that, although academic gowns are highly

conservative in style, they have changed very significantly in

construction and style since the SCA's period. Your basic "rental

gown" owes far more in style to the clerical surplice than to pre-1600

academic gowns. The higher-end gowns follow historic academic styles more

closely, but have also undergone significant alterations in style since

then. The connection between the modern academic hood and its historic

original can only be established via higher-level topological

manipulations. So, if someone were seriously interested in wearing

authentic historic academic clothing for the SCA's period, one thing they

very much _don't_ want to do is simply wear a modern academic outfit.

I've given a fair amount of thought to this question in the opposite

direction: I've been considering making a historic academic gown for my

real-world PhD ceremony (partly because I'm interested in having one in

nicer fabric than the commercial gowns). But I've more or less discarded

that idea for a very relevant reason: my PhD ceremony will be a _modern_

academic ritual, and the appropriate clothing for it is the modern

evolution and incarnation of the academic regalia -- it isn't a historic

re-creation event, and I'd feel out-of-place dressing as if it

were. Conversely, a modern academic gown and whatnot pretty much belongs

in the category of "a good approximation of historic dress for a newby's

first event, if it's what you have lying around the house anyway". But if

you want to wear period-style academic clothing, then the thing to do is

make more accurate period-style academic clothing. (At which point, any

concerns about modern symbolic connetions are irrelevant.)

Tangwystyl

*********************************************************

Heather Rose Jones hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu

**********************************************************

From: "sclark55" <sclark55 at rogers.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: academic robes / regalia

Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 14:56:57 GMT

> Has you ever sewn academic robes, either period or modern? Someone I

> know is making them as a favor for a friend. The pattern she is

> working with is for an ordinary graduation gown. If you could suggest

> any sources for patterns or directions, I would be grateful for the

> help!

If this is for SCA use, I have done some work on 13th century masters'

gowns, which are in the "closed cope" form--they're essentially a

poncho-shaped garment with either a single slit or two slits in front for

the hands. Academic regalia continued to evolve from there so that by the

14th century, undergraduates usually wore the "tabard" (not the heraldic

kind, but a short, open gown; while masters kept the closed cope. In the

16th century, the gowns began to take the same basic shapes as the ones

today. If you find a pattern for the garment called a "schaube", you will

be very close to the 16th century gown.

Nicolaa

From: Brett Chandler-Finch <naturemakeswell at gmail.com>

Date: February 15, 2011 9:59:30 PM CST

To: Bryn-gwlad <bryn-gwlad at lists.ansteorra.org>, ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org

Subject: [Bryn-gwlad] The development of academic dress in the middle ages

I was doing some research on medieval academic regalia and came across

the burgon society a historical preservation group of the history of

academic regalia. They put me in contact with an Alex Kerr who gave

me an article on medieval academic regalia and the development during

the middle ages.

www.scribd.com/doc/23366383/Alex-Kerr-2005-Layer-Upon-Layer

---

Brett Chandler-Finch

The physician heals, Nature makes well.

8401 Treehouse Ln.

Austin, TX 78749

(512) 703-0669

naturemakeswell at gmail.com

Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:37:39 +0930

From: "Anwyn Davies" <anwyn at internode.on.net>

Subject: [Lochac] Scholars robes

To: "'The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list'"

I know that modern academic/graduation robes are based on the garb of

tudor-period students and academics, but I'm having difficulty working out a

pattern, simply because my google-foo is failing and I can't seem to find

any images of them. I have numerous documents confirming that scholars (from

Oxford and Cambridge at least) were required to wear specific garments,

originally based on clerical robes, but that modern academic dress is based

on tudor robes. I also can find lots of pictures of students in either

contemporary dress, or who are tonsured like clerics. This website -

http://home.uchicago.edu/~atterlep/costuming/academic%20clothing.htm - is

the closest I've been able to find, and it's not especially helpful when it

comes to trying to construct a pattern. Has anyone in Lochac done this

before? Is anyone able to help?

Blodeuwedd y Gath

Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 11:37:54 +1000

From: Ian Whitchurch <ian.whitchurch at gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Lochac] Scholars robes

To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"

Try here:

http://www.fitzmuseum.cam.ac.uk/gallery/cambridgeilluminations/themes/8.html

Note the zoom function

Anton

Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 17:14:05 +1000

From: "Kate Price" <kjprice at tpg.com.au>

Subject: Re: [Lochac] Scholars robes

To: "'The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list'"

Are you trying to re-create the pre-reformation style or tudor-style

academic robes?

Alessandro's German coat bears a remarkably close resemblance to modern

academic gowns. It is based upon a houpelande pattern, with a triangular

gore in the back. The starting point for our pattern was CV's version,

http://www.virtue.to/articles/circle_houp.html though we did something

different with the sleeve.

My own version of the houpelande style coat looks quite a lot like the

pre-reformation version and is based on the same pattern but long and not as

full (i.e not a whole circle, more like a bit over a half circle.

Isobel le Breton

Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 18:19:12 +0700

From: JL Badgley <tatsushu at gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Lochac] Scholars robes

To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"

Not sure if this will give you any ideas, but if you are looking at

Tudor men's gowns:

http://www.hrp.org.uk/Resources/Instructions_Boysgown2.pdf

It isn't quite the Janet Arnold pattern, but it is for a similar

garment, and might give you ideas of how to cut things for what you

want.

-Ii

Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 11:23:55 +0930

From: "Anwyn Davies" <anwyn at internode.on.net>

Subject: Re: [Lochac] Scholars robes

To: "'The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list'"

In period (and as Zebee has stated, right up until quite recently) academic

robes were worn by all University students, undergraduates as well as

graduates. I'm not talking about SCA Collegians wearing these around the

University campus as everyday dress - although I'm quite sure the University

of Adelaide would have no objection, as it used to be one of those

universities that did insist on undergraduates wearing academic dress. I see

this as something current Uni students can have to wear at events,

especially camping events where a lack of multiple changes of garb can be a

problem. Many students of today suffer the same problem of students of the

past - lack of money for more than the essentials.

Oxford's regulations on what is worn underneath is decidedly post period.

There are many writings about the problems with students in Oxford being

dressed in little more than rags, with only their robes keeping them decent.

(Admittedly, often those writings were complaining that the students were in

that state because all their money was spent on booze.)

The hoods themselves are not definitive of having attained a degree, it's

the colour of the lining - and again, this is a post-period concept. From

what I've found, the hood has been an essential part of undergraduate dress

for as long as there has been a concept of students' robes. Doctors wore

hats, students wore hoods (as far as I can tell)

I have found period documents and illustrations showing the garments

appropriate to a holder of a Doctorate, and I'd be advising any Collegian

who doesn't hold one not to appropriate it, but in all honesty, this is a

game - if someone wants to claim their persona is a medieval Doctor, then

they run the same gauntlet as someone claiming to be Brother Soandso.

Personally I'd not recommend it, and anyone trying it I'd challenge their

intellectual right to do so, but it falls within what we do.

I'll admit I'm not so keen on the idea of all SCA researchers using academic

robes, but that's because I've envisioned this project as a way of helping

and uniting all the Collegians of the Kingdom, and giving them a way to make

the connection with their historical ancestors. But if someone wants to have

the persona of a medieval student, studying what was taught in medieval

universities, or adopting the life of the Goliards, then fair play to them.

Blod

<<< Please forgive my apprehension, but is it truly appropriate to be dressing

collegians in faux academic dress? Several reasons leave me quite iffy about

this. I believe a good place to research the history of academic dress is

with the Burgon Society who exist to promote scholarship in the history of

it.

My personal apprehension about this whole thing is that (unless one attends

a certain 'old' university where it is normal to don academic dress daily)

is that it's highly inappropriate if you are using it to hide a 'multitude

of sins'. For example, Oxford actually has regulations on what must be worn

beneath the robe and it's quite formal.

Also the hoods for day to day wear are not appropriate at all. You usually

may only don a hood in a specific color denoting what degree you've been

admitted to once you are eligible for that degree to be conferred on you.

This is a throw back to medieval sumptuary laws.

And here is the crux of the matter for me personally. Full academic dress is

a right of passage, a status symbol. I feel by allowing collegians and non

collegians to don this attire takes away from the significance of graduating

if it's to used for non academic/non clerical purposes. I feel the same

about AoAs, if everybody was titled Lord or Lady without having being

granted one, it for me would remove a singularly important right of passage

in the SCA.

Just my thoughts, Magdalena >>>