cl-Russia-msg - 8/29/04

Clothing of medieval Russia.

NOTE: See also these files: Russia-msg, CaRussia-art, Rus-Handbook-art, Russia-
bib, Rus-women-art, Kiev-Slavery-art, kvass-msg, Birch-Brk-Wrt-art.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have 
collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date 
back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These 
files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with 
separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes 
extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed 
to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  
no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the individual 
authors.

Please  respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these 
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Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: fnklshtn at ACF1.NYU.EDU
Subject: Russian garb (was Polish garb sources <was Re: Headdresses & Colors)
Organization: New York University, NY, NY
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1993 20:49:20 GMT

Genevieve asked after Polish and Russian costume sources.
Soviet movies often did an incredible amount of historic research.
I hardily recomend "Andrey Rublev" - a movie about the life of an
importyant 15th cent. artist (it's also got lot's of blood and gutz
and quite a bit of philosophy). Aside from Russian costume it's got
a few Mongols running around.
   Incidentally, since both Polish and Russian clothing has a strong
Persian influence I'll mention this:
Look at clothing on DuraEuropos synagogue paintings (Persian 2nd cent.)
and that worn by some of the more traditional Hasidim (based on Polish
18-19th cent.) - not much difference, ius there?
Also, some of the Russian peasants still have not changed their clothing
(since the 15th cent.).

Nahum haKuzar       <FNKLSHTN at acfcluster.nyu.edu>


From: corun at access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Polish garb sources (was Re: Headdresses & Colors)
Date: 7 Apr 1993 12:52:56 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA

In article <16BA8D6B7.MKNETTEL at kentvm.kent.edu> MKNETTEL at kentvm.kent.edu 
writes:
>Greetings from Genevieve du Vent Argent.
> 
>I would also be interested in this and any good references
>for Polish garb.  We have some local folk interested in Russian
>garb, and since all my references are English & French, it's
>a bit out of my league.  ISBN #'s, Authors & Titles, whatever
>info you have would be great!

Last night I attended the At Home at the Baronial residence in Storvik,
and took the opportunity to ask Baroness Fevronia about Russian and
Polish garb references. She is a student of the history of that part
of the world. Well, in a nutshell she said, learn Russian. She's been
looking for the better part of twenty years for good sources on period
Russian garb, and there just isn't any. Particularly in English. She
said there were one or two Ukrainian texts, and knowing Russian would
help you muddle through the Ukrainian (but don't tell that to a Ukrainian).
She mentioned a book that was done by Jackie Onassis several years ago,
but that it was a great disappointment asit dealt with the French styles
that were imported to Russia in the 17th and 18th centuries. She also
mentioned that icongraphy is not a good source as it was also done in
a French style using middle European clothing styles rather then the
local Russian ones.

Sorry to throw a wet blanket on this topic, but I suppose any information
is better than no information. Fevronia has high hopes of one day going
to Russia to spend copious hours in the Lenin (or whatever they're going
to call it these days) Library. She does speak and read Russian. If 
anyone has any questions for her, please feel free to forward them through
me, as she does not have net access. And of course if anyone has better
resources for this, she would be grateful for that info.

In service,
Corun
===========================================================================
    Corun MacAnndra    |		Yes, we have no bananas.
  Dark Horde by birth  |	       No bananas in Scranton, P A
    Moritu by choice   |				H. Chapin


Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 22:13:34 -0500
From: Caitlin Cheannlaidir <caitlin at phosphor-ink.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Russian Garb

At 12:11 PM 12/16/97 -0900, Angustias McKeown wrote:
>I am looking for sources for Russian garb.  All information would be
>appreciated.  I am open as to the time period.  I am just beginning work
>of a Russian persona and have not been able to find very much.

Several years ago, I went to Costume Con and took a class in Russian
medieval costume from a woman named Soraya Newell (in the Society, Soraya
Evodia of Odessa).  She had great handouts even then, with bibliographies
and lots of pics as well as "how to" for decorative embroidery and so on.
She gave a great class that stands out in my mind even five years later, so 
I'd suggest calling her.

--Caitlin Cheannlaidir
  caitlin at phosphor-ink.com


Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:13:36 -0800
From: Christy <kjalar at pacbell.net>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Russian Garb

Caitlin Cheannlaidir wrote:
> Several years ago, I went to Costume Con and took a class in Russian
> medieval costume from a woman named Soraya Newell (in the Society, Soraya
> Evodia of Odessa).  She had great handouts even then, with bibliographies
> and lots of pics as well as "how to" for decorative embroidery and so on.
> She gave a great class that stands out
> in my mind even five years later, so I'd suggest calling her.

This is the same lady whose class I took at 3YC, and you are correct her
handouts were fantastic. She also authored Complete Anachronist #35 "An
Introduction to Russian Costume"

The telephone number I have listed for her is different though. I also
have e-mail and snail mail address that she printed on the handhouts.
Contact me privately if you would like that info. Here is the e-mail
address:

sarayya at aol.com

I have no way of knowing if it is current.

Christy


Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 02:48:55 EST
From: EowynA <EowynA at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Russian Garb

Mistress Soraya Evodia has moved several times since that class long ago, so I
doubt if that phone number is of use any more.  However, she did write a
Compleat Anachronist on the subject of Russian Clothing, which is available
from the SCA Stock Clerk.

Eowyn Amberdrake, Caid


Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 16:33:53 -0800 (PST)
From: lifitz at wco.com (Conny Fitzsimmons)
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Russian Garb

>I am looking for sources for Russian garb.  All information would be
>appreciated.  I am open as to the time period.  I am just beginning work
>of a Russian persona and have not been able to find very much.
>
>Angustias McKeown

Try Green Duck Designs.  They two books on Russian Garb.  One is written by
a Laurel who received her Laurel for research on Russian Garb.  Green Duck
Designs is on the web try   derek at greenduck.com

In service to the Dream,
Catherine Lorraine


Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:16:50 -0600 (CST)
From: "Elizabeth B. Naime" <elspeth at falcon.cc.ukans.edu>
To: sca-arts at UKANS.EDU
Subject: Re:  Russian Garb

>I am looking for sources for Russian garb.  All information would be
>appreciated.  I am open as to the time period.  I am just beginning work
>of a Russian persona and have not been able to find very much.

For a general overview, _History of Ukrainian costume:  from the Scythian
period to the late 17th century_ (Bayda Books, Melbourne, 1986;  the title
page says something about it's being part of the "Ukrainian Heritage
Library" and it gets catalogued without an author, having been apparently
complied by a Ukrainian Ladies' Group in Australia) is great fun.  It
appears to have a good bibliography also, but for us non-Ukrainian
non-Russian speakers the bibliography is of, er, limited use.

Plusses:  it does cover the Ukraine from before Kievan Rus' to the end of
SCA period.  It shows trends, changes, talks about customs, it's very nice
in these ways.  Minuses:  the illustrations are often of the sort that you
can't sew from.  Experiences seamsters and seamstresses can figure out
most of the clothing, but I cannot quite figure how to make the hair-cap
which is mandatory for us old marrieds in my period (it's either called a
povoynyk, or I've just really messed up my terms and am offering to wear a
shoe on my head), and bast shoes are simply stated, never explained.

If you can find it or make your library find it via interlibary loan,
you'll be glad you did!

Elspeth the Ill-named


Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 00:29:53 EDT
From: <MHoll at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re:  russian garb

Simple tunics. Brocade. Lots of embroidery (besides looking good, embroidery
"at the openings" -- hem, collar and sleeves -- kept the evil spirits out).
Layers, fur, jingling jewelry.

But basically, from the descriptions and the illuminations, frescoes, and
other visual art, however rare, the basic unit is the tunic. Knee-length or
ankle-length, the latter for women and nobility/wealthy classes; the outer
tunic shorter than the undertunic to show off embroidery.

Headdress: all men seem to have worn hats, women wore a kerchief? veil? I
just haven't figured out the English word for it, with or without hat or
kokoshnik, the fancy Russian headpiece.

A start, anyway.

Predslava.


Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:30:49 -0400
From: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: russian garb

Seton1355 at aol.com wrote:
> I'm asking for a friend:  Does anyone have any information on Russian garb
> from  1100-1200?  Can anyone direct me?
> Thanks, Phillipa

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/5145/rusintro.html
http://members.aol.com/johns426/rusukhis.htm
http://members.aol.com/MHoll/Tales/RussianFolktalePage.html
http://members.aol.com/Predslava/RussianHistoryTriviaPage.html
http://members.aol.com/nebula5/tcpinfo3.html#folk-EEurope

Magnus


Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:42:06 -0400
From: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: russian garb

> >  I'm asking for a friend:  Does anyone have any information on Russian garb
> >from  1100-1200?  Can anyone direct me?
> >Thanks, Phillipa

> The Russians of that time period are the descendants of the 'Rus", which
> were the vikings that colonized and set up the Russian state.  It was
> then nowhere as big as it is today.  1100's would probably still look
> very Viking, and I think the viking look would be sfae in the 1200's as
> well (as far as the overall cut of the clothes, but probably differing in
> details) since Russia hasn't been know for being a fasion leader.  Note
> too that the 'Russian hat' developed from a Viking original.
>
> Styrbjorn Ulfhamr

Well, if you've never seen the classic movie Alexander Nevsky, now
would be a very good time. It's about the Rus, and their
allies fighting the Teutonic Knights, and the great battle on the
ice. Osprey Books has a specific book just on the Battle:
Lake Peipus 1242, Osprey Campaign Series Title #42 ISBN 1-85532-553-5.
You have to realize that there really was no Russia at that time.
There were city states under siege like Novgorad. Those cities
were built around Viking settlements.

Magnus


Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:15:14 EDT
From: <MHoll at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: russian garb

In a message dated 10/22/98 1:41:40 PM, Magnus wrote:
>Those cities were built around Viking settlements.

This point is at the very least controversial. It is generally accepted that
Novgorod, for instance, grew out of three or more original settlements, not
necessarily East Slavic (future Russian), possibly at least one Finnic
village, probably NOT Viking. All this looks like a group of villages founded
to facilitate trade at a junction of several trade routes, maintained by
locals.

The "Viking theory" that assigns a Viking origin to the Russian state is not
supported as much as it used to be. Although the presence and input of Vikings
into the Russian state is undeniable, more and more data indicate that *if*
the Rurikid dynasty was in fact founded by Vikings, then most of the Russian
laws were based on Slavic custom. Russian culture, certainly, does not owe a
lot to Norse influence.

Note that I am not discounting Norse influence; I am just arguing it is not
*the* major influence on early Rus'. I would actually explain similarities
to coincident development rather than direct influence.

Predslava.


Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 23:32:47 EST
From: <MHoll at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: clothing sites

Try this:
http://members.aol.com/Predslava/GiliarovskaiaPatterns.html

Russian garb patterns with comments. Just a few for now.

Predslava


From: Mackenzie Morgan <prettypysanky at yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Jun 19, 2003  10:47:56 AM US/Central
To: stefan at florilegium.org
Subject: for the russian garb section

the headwear for women is called a babushka and is simply a square kerchief 
folded in half diagonally and tied under the chin with the folded part forward 
(dont have a bibliography, have family--but anything about the hutzul people of 
the ukraine would work)  russian and ukrainian garb are essentially the same as 
is the language...and yes, ukrainians agree, i asked an ukrainian immigrant and 
she said any russian, ukrainian, polish, hungarian, romainian, or other 
slavic person could speak to each other in their native languages and understand 
each other.  there's just some difference in dialect, like british english and 
american english

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	cl-Russia-msg	7