cl-Norse-msg - 2/29/12

Period clothing of the Norse. Viking clothing.

NOTE: See also the files: Norse-msg, pst-Vik-Norse-msg, Norse-food-art, fd-Norse-msg, fd-Normans-msg, clothing-msg, patterns-msg.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the individual authors.

Please  respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The  copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this time. If  information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: haslock at rust.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock)
Date: 1 Nov 91 20:07:43 GMT
Organization: DECwest, Digital Equipment Corp., Bellevue WA

From BLUND.ILS at mhs.unc.EDU (BLUND):
> I recently ran across a brief mention in a fairly reputable source that 
> Icelanders and other Norse Colonists have been making cloth using wool yarn 
> and "needles" in a fashion "similar to knitting" since the age of 
> expansion.  Does anyone know anything more about a technique "similar to 
> knitting," used in the Middle Ages?
> 
> And, how about knitting itself?  I would think warm wooly socks would be 
> perfect for cold Northern winters. . .  :-)

I am told that knitting is period, but have yet to see proof. However,
leggings are another matter. There are some Norse leggings that were made
using Spang. Peter Collingwood's The Techniques of Sprang mentions them and
describes more techniques than you are likely to use in a lifetime.

The Irish also have evidence of leggings but in late period the used Frieze
to make them. This, I am told, is a thick haiary cloth which is much more
likely to be windproof than even a thick knit. The leggings and the
relevant evidence is described by A.T.Lucas in his article on Irish Footwear.

It seems to me that knit stockings might work in cold still air but are likely
to be worse than useless under wet and windy conditions. I frequently wear
knit sweaters in the mundane world and find them worthless for warmth in
any kind of wind. Thus, I am not surprised at the rareity of knits in period.

        Fiacha,
        Aquaterra, AnTir


From: bmorris at access.digex.com (Beth Morris)
Date: 9 Dec 91 05:06:22 GMT
Organization: Express Access Public Access Unix, Greenbelt, MD

I would also recommend Paul Norlund Meddelelser Om Gronland (Copenhagen, 1924)
(or in English The Buried Norsemen at Herjolfsnes).  It has excellent patterns,
and comparisons of the different finds at Herjolfsnes (Greenland) and a good
discussion of fibers, seams, finishing, mending, etc.  There are flat
patterns as well as sketches of the garments, and illustrations from ms.
with similar garments.  Should be available through inter-library loan.

Keilyn FitzWarin
Lochmere, Atlantia


Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 04:26:51 -0600
From: Gunnora Hallakarva <gunnora at bga.com>
Subject: Re: ANST - garb question

This question was asked:
><< We have introduced a teenaged girl into the SCA recently.  She is looking
>for a culture/persona that will allow her to wear pants, rather than dresses,
>as she is more comfortable in them.  Can you please suggest a time/place
>where ladies did wear pants?  She is not interested in a male persona.

To which someone replied:
>My lady suggests that Norse or Mideast persona's might serve, I seem to
>remember other parts of the world that would serve as well.  I will try to do
>some research for you.  Good Luck!

Norse women did not wear pants.  It was grounds for instant divorce
(including a lot of public shame and a huge financial burden in the
division of property) if a woman did wear pants.

It is possible that Norse women may have been wearing some sort of leggings
or "bloomers" under their dresses, since the source which describes the
divorce based on a woman wearing pants specifies "pants with gores in the
crotch like a man's".

Gunnora Hallakarva
Herskerinde


Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:39:02 -0500
From: capriest at cs.vassar.edu (Carolyn Priest-Dorman)
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Viborg Shirt Query

Ciorstan wrote:
> The best pictures I'e seen so far are in NESAT V, which shows a young
> man wearing a hand-woven and hand-stitched replica of the shirt. The
> citation is for an article called:
>
> Viking Age replicas in research and abstract, by Mytte Fentz
>
> Textilsymposium Neumuenster, Archaologische Textilfunde (Archaeological
> Textiles) 4. - 7.5.93 (NESAT V)

The best article I've seen in English is "An 11th Century Linen Shirt from
Viborg Sonderso, Denmark," also by Mytte Fentz, but it's in NESAT IV.  It
has lots of very clear line drawings about how the various pieces of the
garment are cut and sewn together, including a suggested cutting diagram.

Carolyn Priest-Dorman                 Thora Sharptooth
capriest at cs.vassar.edu                Frostahlid, Austrriki


Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 22:49:23 -0400
From: capriest at cs.vassar.edu (Carolyn Priest-Dorman)
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: New Web Pages

I have just added the following documents to my website.

     '"But That's How They Look in the Book!": Viking
     Women's Garb in Art and Archaeology,' a critique
     of depictions of Viking women's clothing, with
     a short list of trustworthy depictions

     http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~capriest/roach.html

     "A Quick and Dirty Look at Viking Women's Garb
     in the Ninth and Tenth Centuries," a work with
     no footnotes but with links to other footnoted
     documents on related subjects

     http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~capriest/qdirtyvk.html

Carolyn Priest-Dorman              =DE=F3ra Sharptooth
capriest  at  cs. vassar. edu         Frostahlid, Austmork
      http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~capriest/thora.html


Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 15:22:56 -0400
From: rmhowe <MMagnusM at bellsouth.net>
Subject: [SCA-AS] Viking Age Headcoverings
To: - Authenticity List <authenticity at yahoogroups.com>,	- BARONY of
	WINDMASTERS' HILL <keep at windmastershill.org>

<<< Elizabeth Wincott Heckett, (2003), "Viking Age Headcoverings from
Dublin". In the series "Medieval Dublin Excavations 1962-81.
Ser.B,vol.6 (2003)". ISBN: 0-9543855-5-1. >>>

http://www.ria.ie [I'll insert that.]

<<< Hardcover, costs 30 euro.

It can be ordered from: Royal Irish Academy 19 Dawson St Dublin 2
Ireland Attn: Hugh Shiels

And on to contents:

The book covers 68 textiles: scarfs, headbands and caps (10th-12th
cent.Dublin), which are discussed after a general information on the
excavation sites. The sections for scarfs and headbands and caps are
similar, in that they start with pictorial and archaeological
comparisons for the objects, and then the catalogue part goes into
detail on size, weave, stitches etc. There are drawings for almost
all finds. For caps there are also some thoughts - and illustrations
- on how they might have been worn. The cloth technology is then
discussed: cloth-type, yarn, weave and dimensions. The author also
discusses cloth production and loom-type. There are also a few pages
on sewing techniques, and a discussion on the origins of the cloth,
commerce, and a short discussion on viking age dress in Dublin. The
appendix covers analyses of dyes and of hair found in the textiles.
There are also 16 colour plates (12 of textiles).

If the price is a bit too much, you might wait until it comes in a
softcover version (as the previous books in the series were published
in both hard- and softcover, I believe that this one will do so as
well.). >>>


Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 02:35:52 -0400
From: rmhowe <MMagnusM at bellsouth.net>
Subject: [SCA-AS] Viking Clothing
To: - Austlend - Vikings-NA in NC List <Austlend at yahoogroups.com>, 	-
	BARONY of WINDMASTERS' HILL <keep at windmastershill.org>,	-
	EKMetalsmiths <EKMetalsmiths at yahoogroups.com>, 	- Dunstan
	<Dunstan at yahoogroups.com>,	- Historic-HornAntlerBone
	<Historic-HornAntlerBone at yahoogroups.com>, 	- Manx
	<TheManx at yahoogroups.com>,	- Medieval Leather List
	<medieval-leather at yahoogroups.com>, 	- SCA-ARTS
	<artssciences at lists.gallowglass.org>

This is not a private endorsement, but just a notification.
I have not examined the thing myself.
Just become aware of it.

Magnus

<http://www.historicalarts.co.uk/books/vikingclothing.html>


From: L T <ldeerslayer at yahoo.com>
Date: February 26, 2008 7:19:45 PM CST
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] For the Viking Personas

Heilsa,

There has been quite a bit of discussion on the Norsefolk2 Yahoogroup 
on the subject of Annika Larson's reconstruction.
(which is the one in the article)... 
I suggest that anyone who wants to make the garment per
her interpretation read the discussion first.

Personally I wouldn't trust her reconstruction... 
cause she's taking a reconstruction of a Russian find 
and applying it universally to pagan Scandinavia... 

It's kinda like saying that in the US
during the 60's all young people were hippies.

More probable reconstructions from the same find she drew her conclusions on...

 http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/PskovTranslation.html
 http://members.ozemail.com.au/~chrisandpeter/sarafan/sarafan.htm
Lorraine DeerSlayer

Chelsea Durham <baby_sis_83 at hotmail.com> wrote: 
Found on fark.com
http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20080225/sc_livescience/vikingwomendressedprovocatively

-Lady Grainne Kathleen NicPadraig MacDaniel 


To: Gleann Abhann (mail list) <gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Two New Viking Era Costuming Books to be published in the coming mon
Posted by: "Brad Moore" mamluk at yahoo.com mamluk
Date: Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:35 pm ((PST))

I ran across these while ordering my books for the term and thought I would post 
them for those who haven't seen these yet.  They should both be available in the 
next few months.

http://www.amazon.com/Medieval-Garments-Reconstructed-Clothing-Patterns/dp/8779342981/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_1

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/8299832306/ref=s9_simh_gw_p14_d2_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-5&pf_rd_r=0NTBWQV0XVW16E4X53YF&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470939291&pf_rd_i=507846

The first is co-authored by Else Ostergard who wrote Woven Into the Earth.  The 
second is an English/Norwegian bilingual edition written by Nille Glaesel, she's 
famous for her museum reproductions in northern Europe.  Both are available for 
pre-order on Amazon and should be available soon.

http://www.vikingdrakt.webhjelp.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=85&language=en

This is a second link with some images of pages from Glaesel's book.

Je Reste,

En Service au Reve,
Nicolas L'Anguille
Brad Moore


To: Gleann Abhann (mail list) <gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: Two New Viking Era Costuming Books to be published in the coming
Posted by: "Kendra Dey" dey.kendra at gmail.com exotrix
Date: Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:08 am ((PST))

Just so everyone is aware, Medieval Garments Reconstructed: Norse
Clothing Patterns was supposed to be published early last year (prior
to Gulf Wars 2010). The release date has been moved back twice already
and currently has missed the most recent publish date of 12/2010. It
currently does not have a release date by Amazon (I pre-ordered it
last year) though I now have hopes of getting the book since there is
a cover pictured.

Kendra


To: Gleann Abhann (mail list) <gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: Two New Viking Era Costuming Books to be published in the coming
Posted by: "Sperry Workman" sperryw at yahoo.com sperryw
Date: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:01 am ((PST))

Medieval Garments Reconstructed looks awesome, but does anyone know if it 
actually contains Viking-era clothing?  Ostergard's fantastic book "Woven into 
the Earth" actually covers from the late 12th C until about the 15th C.  Yes, 
the digs are "Norse," but they're not "Viking."  I'd hate for someone to be 
really hoping for one thing and this book not be it.

Kenna


To: Gleann Abhann (mail list) <gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: Two New Viking Era Costuming Books to be published in the coming
Posted by: "Brad Moore" mamluk at yahoo.com mamluk
Date: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:15 pm ((PST))

Kenna, 

My copy of Medieval Garments has shipped, but hasn't arrived yet.  I will post 
what it includes as soon as I have it in hand.  I believe it covers the 
Herjolfnes finds.  Sorry for any confusion.  

I have seen pictures from the Glaesel book, however, and it is Viking era for 
certain, but I have only looked at screen caps, and can't speak for the 
documentation or credibility of the book.  I plan to order it as well.  Oxbow 
Books has it on pre-order for $100/copy, and their website says it should have 
arrived from Norway in December of last year, so hopefully it will be available 
in the coming weeks as well.
 
 Brad Moore


From: Liam <liamdevlin99 at yahoo.com>
To: gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, January 21, 2011 2:13:40 PM
Subject: [Gleann Abhann] Re: Two New Viking Era Costuming Books to be published 
in the coming months.....
 
I have purchased three copies of the Nille Glaeselsonn Book, and have made three 
Viking-era dear friends very happy this past Christmas. (yes, I did examine the 
first one that came in for I had to re-ship it off to Ealdomere). I will say 
this--Mrs G & her husband, daughter, & son are living re-enactors in Lofoten 
fjiord. Anothger bonus of this book is that it comes with PATTERNS that are 
separate from the book, and thus removal of doesn't damage the tome itself.

Lord Liam Devlin


To: gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Medieval Garments Reconstructed:  Norse Clothing Patterns
Posted by: "Brad Moore" mamluk at yahoo.com mamluk
Date: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:24 am ((PST))

I have my copy in hand now.  It covers the Herjolfsnes finds in Southern 
Greenland from around 1000 AD forward, not Viking, but more like the continental 
styles from the Bayeaux tapestry, and forward.  The foreword states that the 
book was written as a companion pattern book to Woven Into the Earth, but was 
designed to be used without it.

The work details the process used to study the surviving fibres, and includes 
images of bone weaving-tablets, a walrus-tooth buckle, and other rarely 
seen objects from the settlement.  Details are given on yarns and wool types, 
and an entire chapter called "Producing a Hand-Made Reconstruction" take you 
start to finish through creating a garment.  

This includes finding raw wool, combing and carding, treatment prior to 
spinning, the spinning of the yarn, Dyeing with available natural dyes (lichens, 
etc), warp-weighted looms, sewing and the stitches used on the found garments, 
the creation of foot-woven and tablet woven piping, braided cords, and making 
button holes (only one surviving garment actually had buttonholes, but bone and 
walrus tusk buttons have been found).  A chart at the end of the 
chapter breaks down the thread types used on each garment, the color of the 
warp/weft threads, the type of stitch used, where the stitch was used on the 
garment (neck, etc.), where braided cords, tablet or foot weaving was applied to 
the garment, etc.  

The layout of the patterns is not unlike Janet Arnold's treatment of late period 
garments, with the pattern pieces laid out on a grid.  There are patterns for 
nine garments, from dresses to tunics, six hoods, two caps, and two pair 
of stockings.  

Hope this helps to answer any questions regarding the work.

Nicolas


Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 10:01:04 +1000
From: Alonya Mazoyer <submarinechick at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] book review norse textile
To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"
	<lochac at lochac.sca.org>

And all the patterns are in metric measurements.  I have had this book since
release and it is an excellent resource.
Some of the reconstructions do not have the original garment displayed next
to it (most do) so you need to go to Woven into the Earth to see the
original, but other than that, it can be used as a stand-alone pattern
resource.

Juliana

On 11 June 2011 08:30, Raymond Wickham <insidious565 at hotmail.com> wrote:
Fransen, Lilli, Anna Norgaard and Else Ostergard. "Medieval
Garments Reconstructed: Norse Clothing Patterns".  Aarhus: Aarhus
University Press. 2011.  Pp. 143.  $40.  ISBN: 97887777932989.

This book should be regarded as a supplement to the book "Woven into
the Earth: Textiles from Norse Greenland" written by Else Ostergard
in 2004.  The book "Medieval Garments Reconstructed" is a useful
practical guide to making Norse period clothing based on actual finds.
The original book "Woven into the Earth: Textiles from Norse
Greenland" deals with most of the topics in this book, but in much
greater depth, and is essential reading for anyone with an academic
interest in the subject.  While the subsequent publication does not
expand on the earlier book, or meet its standard in terms of
background and history, it does serve a utilitarian function by
including a practical section detailing how to reconstruct prehistoric
and historic clothing, including actual patterns.

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	fd-Norse-msg	Page 8 of 8