cl-Italy-msg - 8/22/09 Clothing of medieval and Renaissance Italy. NOTE: See also the files: Italy-msg, fashion-msg, hose-msg, clothing-books-msg, pasta-msg, popes-msg, fd-Italy-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: 6790753%356_WEST_58TH_5TH_FL%NEW_YORK_NY%WNET_6790753 at mcimail.COM ("KATMAN.WNETS385") Date: 8 Nov 91 18:32:00 GMT As to grommets being period, well, yes and no. In the Italian Renaissance garb was made with "maglie" which were metal rings and lacing eyes. A good reference is the book on Italian Fashion in the Quattrocento by Jaqueline Herald (I think that's the spelling). There are many portraits of women wearing clothes with these "maglie" and some period descriptions of women's wardrobes. Another source for info. on metal rings used for lacing is Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion 15xx - 16xx (I forget the exact dates, it's the 3rd in a series). She shows some clothing using several different types of metal fastenings, at least one of which is a grommet-like thing. Now the grommets that we have (t-shaped metal rings that fasten into and around each other and fabric) may or may not be what they used then. I have not examined any of the period ones up close, and don't recall the descriptions well being at work. I guess Arnold would be the better source for that, she has taken this garb apart to see exactly how it was made. My best guess is that they are just metal rings that were sewn around (making a reinforced eyelet). Whether or not these sorts of fastenings were used in earlier period garb I have no clue. Winifred de Schyppewallebotham (that's Middle English for "From the valley with the stream where the sheep were washed")(Nolite Secundo Flumine Natare) Lee Katman == Thirteen/WNET == New York, NY Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:44:47 -0800 From: Eleanor of Leycestershyre To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Italian Renn patterns Anna Troy wrote: > I'm thinking about making an Italian Renn costume. I've been looking at > Period Patterns "Women's Italian Renaissance" Is this pattern any good? Are > there any other pattern recommendations preferably with an url :-)? I'd > also appretiate any suggestion that are more specificly about Italian Renn > costume since I have been looking and there doesn't seem to be much. > > Anna de Byxe I have used this pattern at least 5 times, as well as a large number of other patterns from this mfr...also, most recently at 12th Night. I find it works up beautifully for the most the part, as do most of their patterns, and I really do like them a lot. But, as someone else has said, it can be slightly confusing due to the multiple sizings, especially if you are not used to that. But very much less so for this pattern than some of the others by this same manufacturer. I have made 3 of the Venetian style gowns with the "V" bodice and I really do not like the inset arrangement of what they term the "stomacher" for this style. It is the worst part of the assembly due to a hook and eye arrangement on either side which holds it in place. I feel that it is not a true "period" treatment for this style of gown. IMHO, that there should actually be a separate undergown and a separate overgown, rather than the lining/underskirt/stomacher setup which I think is probably a "faking". It's cumbersome, and difficult to get it "just right", overly complicated to get into, and and I think there are better ways to achieve the same "look" using this pattern. Check out Lynn's page under "Ital. Ren." and you'll see a beautiful example of one she has done like this: http://www.jps.net/lynnmcm/lynn.html But the gowns are very comfortable to wear, and look wonderful. The next one I do of this style, I will use the patterns as a springboard and work up the separate layers as I describe above. I would also like to concur that the documentation is good, and very helpful. Try this site! They have links to gazillions of costuming reference material. Look under "images". There is a link to a site with a lot of Ital. Ren. portraits! Quite nice; http://www.milieux.com/costume/index.html Eleanor of Leycesterhsyre Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 06:35:37 -0900 From: jacki frederick To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Italian Renn patterns Anna Troy wrote: > I'm thinking about making an Italian Renn costume. I've been looking at > Period Patterns "Women's Italian Renaissance" Is this pattern any good? Period Patterns Italian is good, it has excellent documentation. I use the pattern to get ideas for the garment I want to make. Then I used the pattern pieces which can, in some instances become very confusing (or it may just be me) with all the multiple size lines and the lack of good markings. But I eventually got the right bodice pattern and use it all the time for other garments (after making the usual fitting adjustments). The skirts are more or less up to the individual on fullness and length is my thought. I guess basically what I'm saying is that I use the pattern as a base, build my own from there and they turn out wonderful. A good source of pictures of Italian garments is Vecellio's Images of 15th and Early 16th Century Costume which can be found at http://costumes.org/pages/timelinepages/1500to1535a.htm A final note, I love Italians, I mean the clothes :); you can make them fancy, with multiple fabrics, multiple colours, they are great tourney garb with cottons and such, and great for many figure types. PERFECT! Elspeth Bouchannane (A transplanted Scot in Italy) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:06:31 EST From: To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Italian Renn Garb Question ldyelisbth at yahoo.com writes: << Within my research for Italian Ren garb, I came across a picture where the bodice portion of the underdress was laced on the sides (as in angled to the small of the back). I was wondering if anyone knew whether or not this was the preferred spot for lacings, or if it changed. Most of the other portraits I have seen, the women are also wearing overdresses, so it's hard to figure out where the lacings would have been.>> Italian Renaissance clothes for women of the 1485 to 1550 variety were cut with short bodices and most commonly laced on the side or up the back. However by the late 1500s the line was longer (though still not to the natural waist) and pointed in the front. To create the arched fit over the hip, a side piece was used that created the angled line in the front (from the neckline to the pointed waist) and the angled line in the back (from the shoulder towards the small of the back as you described). This allowed for a more fitted bodice. A wonderful example of this type of construction is found in Janet Arnold's book, Patterns of Fashion. << Second question... these girls weren't wearing aprons, and were working in the kitchen. Are aprons something which would have been worn? And if so, does anyone know what style it would have been?>> There are other examples of women wearing aprons, gathered to a waistband, tied at the waist and about knee to mid-calf length. One of my favorites shows girl running and she has <> SANDALS on her feet!! :o) So when you're at one of those REALLY hot events.... :o) <> I don't have a url right off the top of my head, but a couple of my favorite places to look for clothes ideas in general are the National Gallery and The Uffizi Gallery (yes, it's in Florence Italy!). The Uffizi has a virtual site called "Virtual Uffizi" (how clever!). You might also check some of the links sites like Milieux and the Costume source. Lady Giuglia Madelena Sarducci Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:20:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Anna Troy Subject: [SCA-AS] Finding fabrics To: Drachenwald Mailing , artssciences at lists.gallowglass.org When I was surfing around the excellent website A Festive attire (great if your into second half 16th century Italian etc. http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/) I stumbled on a link to Istok Enterprises http://istok.net/cgi-istok/catalog.cgi who sell supplies for Orthodox Christians. Now go into Vestment fabrics and start drooling. Then I thought "wait a minute" and started a Google search on "vestment fabrics" and a whole new world opened up... Anna de Byxe From: Dianne Russell Date: July 20, 2009 11:25:49 PM CDT To: 1 castlemere Cc: Trimaris-temp Subject: [tri-temp] Italian Clothing links Here are some Italian Clothing links to fit with the theme of Fall Coronation. I have posted them on the event web site as well. 



Italian Clothing 
http://moas.atlantia.sca.org/wsnlinks/index.php?action=displaycat&catid=131

Italan Renaissance Costuming Mailing list
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Italian_Renaissance_Costuming/

Italian Renaissance Hair Taping 
http://www.mfgraffix.com/hird/faoilt/hairtape.html

 Italian Renaissance Gown Construction
 http://homepages.wmich.edu/~rowen/renbk/rendressbook.html

 How To Make Italian Ribbon Coifs
 http://www.modaruniversity.org/briana/coif1.htm

 A Late 15th Century Italian Chemise Pattern
 http://www.modaruniversity.org/chemise1.htm

 Ever After Costumes Study Site
 http://www.everaftercostumes.com/ 

Italian Renaissance Headgear
 http://www.sword.net/jessica/firenze/ItalianRenaissanceHeadgearClass.pdf

 Middle Class Italian Renaissance Gown 
http://genvieve.net/sca/mcitalrennotes/index.html 

An Easy Italian Renaissance Gown
 http://ilaria.veltri.tripod.com/italiandress.html

 The Garb Closet - female and male
 http://www.florentine-persona.com/closet.html 

An Overview of Men's Clothing in Northern Italy c. 1420 - 1480
 http://www.houseofpung.net/sca/15c_mens_italian.pdf

 Men's Clothing in 15th Century Florence
 http://www.florentine-persona.com/menflorence.html

 Farsetto Construction of the Italian Renaissance (1425-1470) - man
 http://home.earthlink.net/~lizjones429/farsetto.html

 Mary's Italian Renaissance Costume links 
http://www.quite-contrary.org/cost_link_ital.htm
 Edited by Mark S. Harris cl-Italy-msg Page 5 of 5