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cl-Italy-msg - 8/22/09


Clothing of medieval and Renaissance Italy.


NOTE: See also the files: Italy-msg, fashion-msg, hose-msg, clothing-books-msg, pasta-msg, popes-msg, fd-Italy-msg.





This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.


This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org


I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.


The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.


Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).


Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                          Stefan at florilegium.org



From: 6790753%356_WEST_58TH_5TH_FL%NEW_YORK_NY%WNET_6790753 at mcimail.COM ("KATMAN.WNETS385")

Date: 8 Nov 91 18:32:00 GMT


As to grommets being period, well, yes and no. In the Italian Renaissance

garb was made with "maglie" which were metal rings and lacing eyes. A good

reference is the book on Italian Fashion in the Quattrocento by Jaqueline

Herald (I think that's the spelling). There are many portraits of women wearing

clothes with these "maglie" and some period descriptions of women's wardrobes.


   Another source for info. on metal rings used for lacing is Janet Arnold's

Patterns of Fashion 15xx - 16xx (I forget the exact dates, it's the 3rd in a

series). She shows some clothing using several different types of metal

fastenings, at least one of which is a grommet-like thing.


   Now the grommets that we have (t-shaped metal rings that fasten into and

around each other and fabric) may or may not be what they used then. I have not

examined any of the period ones up close, and don't recall the descriptions

well being at work. I guess Arnold would be the better source for that, she has

taken this garb apart to see exactly how it was made. My best guess is that

they are just metal rings that were sewn around (making a reinforced eyelet).


   Whether or not these sorts of fastenings were used in earlier period garb I

have no clue.


Winifred de Schyppewallebotham

(that's Middle English for "From the valley with the stream where the sheep

were washed")(Nolite Secundo Flumine Natare)

Lee Katman == Thirteen/WNET == New York, NY



Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:44:47 -0800

From: Eleanor of Leycestershyre <hekav at gte.net>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: Italian Renn patterns


Anna Troy wrote:

> I'm thinking about making an Italian Renn costume. I've been looking at

> Period Patterns "Women's Italian Renaissance" Is this pattern any good? Are

> there any other pattern recommendations preferably with an url :-)? I'd

> also appretiate any suggestion that are more specificly about Italian Renn

> costume since I have been looking and there doesn't seem to be much.


> Anna de Byxe


I have used this pattern at least 5 times, as well as

a large number of other patterns from this mfr...also, most recently

at 12th Night.  I find it works up beautifully for the most the

part, as do most of their patterns, and I really do like them

a lot.  But, as someone else has said, it can be slightly confusing

due to the multiple sizings, especially if you are not used to that.

But very much less so for this pattern than some of the others

by this same manufacturer.


I have made 3 of the Venetian style gowns with the "V" bodice

and I really do not like the inset arrangement of what they

term the "stomacher" for this style.  It is the worst part

of the assembly due to a hook and eye arrangement on either

side which holds it in place.  I feel that it is not a

true "period" treatment for this style of gown. IMHO, that

there should actually be a separate undergown and a separate

overgown, rather than the lining/underskirt/stomacher setup

which I think is probably a "faking".  It's cumbersome, and difficult

to get it "just right", overly complicated to get into, and

and I think there are better ways to achieve the same "look"

using this pattern.


Check out Lynn's page under "Ital. Ren." and you'll see a

beautiful example of one she has done like this:




But the gowns are very comfortable to wear, and look wonderful.

The next one I do of this style, I will use the patterns as a

springboard and work up the separate layers as I describe above.


I would also like to concur that the documentation is good, and

very helpful.


Try this site!  They have links to gazillions of costuming

reference material.  Look under "images".  There is a link to

a site with a lot of Ital. Ren. portraits!  Quite nice;




Eleanor of Leycesterhsyre



Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 06:35:37 -0900

From: jacki frederick <edenwild at alaska.net>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: Italian Renn patterns


Anna Troy wrote:

> I'm thinking about making an Italian Renn costume. I've been looking at

> Period Patterns "Women's Italian Renaissance" Is this pattern any good?


Period Patterns Italian is good, it has excellent documentation.  I use

the pattern to get ideas for the garment I want to make. Then I used the

pattern pieces which can, in some instances become very confusing (or it

may just be me) with all the multiple size lines and the lack of good

markings.  But I eventually got the right bodice pattern and use it all

the time for other garments (after making the usual fitting

adjustments). The skirts are more or less up to the individual on

fullness and length is my thought.  I guess basically what I'm saying is

that I use the pattern as a base, build my own from there and they turn

out wonderful.


A good source of pictures of Italian garments is Vecellio's Images of

15th and Early 16th Century Costume which can be found at




A final note, I love Italians, I mean the clothes :); you can make them

fancy, with multiple fabrics, multiple colours, they are great tourney

garb with cottons and such, and great for many figure types.  PERFECT!


Elspeth Bouchannane

(A transplanted Scot in Italy)



Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:06:31 EST

From: <SigridPW at aol.com>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: Italian Renn Garb Question


ldyelisbth at yahoo.com writes:

<<    Within my research for Italian Ren garb, I came across a picture

where the bodice portion of the underdress was laced on the sides (as

in angled to the small of the back).  I was wondering if anyone knew

whether or not this was the preferred spot for lacings, or if it

changed.  Most of the other portraits I have seen, the women are also

wearing overdresses, so it's hard to figure out where the lacings

would have been.>>


Italian Renaissance clothes for women of the 1485 to 1550 variety were cut

with short bodices and most commonly laced on the side or up the back.

However by the late 1500s the line was longer (though still not to the natural

waist) and pointed in the front.  To create the arched fit over the hip, a

side piece  was used that created the angled line in the front (from the

neckline to the pointed waist) and the angled line in the back (from the

shoulder towards the small of the back as you described). This allowed for

a more fitted bodice.  A wonderful example of this type of construction is

found in Janet Arnold's book, Patterns of Fashion.


     << Second question...  these girls weren't wearing aprons, and were

working in the kitchen.  Are aprons something which would have been

worn?  And if so, does anyone know what style it would have been?>>


There are other examples of women wearing aprons, gathered to a waistband,

tied at the waist and about knee to mid-calf length.  One of my favorites

shows girl running and she has  <<gasp>> SANDALS on her feet!!  :o)  So when

you're at one of those REALLY hot events....  :o)


      <<Third question... (Boy, am I full of them tonight! ;)  Does

anyone have a url for period colors for fabrics and an idea of period

trim and where it would be placed? >>


I don't have a url right off the top of my head, but a couple of my favorite

places to look for clothes ideas in general are the National Gallery and The

Uffizi Gallery (yes, it's in Florence Italy!).  The Uffizi has a virtual site

called "Virtual Uffizi"  (how clever!).  You might also check some of the

links sites like Milieux and the Costume source.


Lady Giuglia Madelena Sarducci



Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:20:07 -0700 (PDT)

From: Anna Troy <owly3 at yahoo.se>

Subject: [SCA-AS] Finding fabrics

To: Drachenwald Mailing <dw-l at drachenwald.sca.org>,

        artssciences at lists.gallowglass.org


When I was surfing around the excellent website A

Festive attire (great if your into second half 16th

century Italian etc.

http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/) I stumbled on

a link to Istok Enterprises

http://istok.net/cgi-istok/catalog.cgi who sell

supplies for Orthodox Christians. Now go into Vestment

fabrics and start drooling. Then I thought "wait a

minute" and started a Google search on "vestment

fabrics" and a whole new world opened up...


Anna de Byxe



From: Dianne Russell <cat_herder at comcast.net>

Date: July 20, 2009 11:25:49 PM CDT

To: 1 castlemere <castlemere at yahoogroups.com>

Cc: Trimaris-temp <trimaris-temp at yahoogroups.com>

Subject: [tri-temp] Italian Clothing links


Here are some Italian Clothing links to fit with the theme of Fall Coronation. I have posted them on the event web site as well.


Italian Clothing 



Renaissance Costuming Mailing list


Renaissance Hair Taping



Italian Renaissance Gown Construction



How To Make Italian Ribbon Coifs



A Late 15th Century Italian Chemise Pattern



Ever After Costumes Study Site



Italian Renaissance Headgear



Middle Class Italian Renaissance Gown 


An Easy Italian Renaissance Gown



The Garb Closet - female and male



An Overview of MenŐs Clothing in Northern Italy c. 1420 - 1480



Men's Clothing in 15th Century Florence



Farsetto Construction of the Italian Renaissance (1425-1470) - man



Mary's Italian Renaissance Costume links



<the end>

Formatting copyright © Mark S. Harris (THLord Stefan li Rous).
All other copyrights are property of the original article and message authors.

Comments to the Editor: stefan at florilegium.org