cl-Elzabethan-msg - 2/29/12 Clothing of Elizabethan England. Pattern sources. NOTE: See also the files: Elzabethn-Gwn-art, codpieces-msg, clothing-books-msg, cl-Anglo-Saxn-msg, corsets-msg, hoops-msg, hose-msg, ruffs-msg, underwear-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: ewright at convex.com (Edward V. Wright) Date: 16 Oct 91 23:17:37 GMT Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA Well, there are indeed people interested in sources to confirm the period use of pockets, so... The best source on this subject is Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion, Vol. III: The Cut and Construction of Clothes for Men and Women c. 1560-1620. Arnold shows photographs and detailed pattern reconstructions for nearly all the surviving garments from this period. There are examples of pre-1600 trunk hose and pluderhosen with pockets. There is also a pair of venetian hose, or venetian breeches, which have pockets in the seems at the side. These date from 1615-1620; however, I see no reason to doubt that earlier Venetians would have had pockets also, since other types of hosen clearly did. There is also a *doublet* with a pocket: It is the leather doublet worn by Nils Sture when he was murdered in Upsula Castle in 1567. The doublet has a short skirt that covers the lacing strip for the points that attached the pluderhosen, with a pocket set into the front of the skirt on the righthand side. The pocket is covered by a flap that is closed by three small buttons which match the buttons that close the front of this doublet. There is a matching flap on the opposite side, but no pocket underneath it. (I am currently making a copy of this doublet.) Arnold also quotes a story from John Bulwer's "Anthropometamorphosis: Man Transform'd or the Artificial Changling" (1653) referring to an earlier time whne "the Law was in force against wearing Bayes stuffed in their Breeches." A man with "breeches very full" was arrested and brought before a judge, where he "drew out of his breeches a paire of Sheets, two Table Cloaths, ten Napkings, foure Shirts, a Brush, a Glass, and a Combe, Night-caps, and other things... saying... your Highnesse may understand... I have no safer a store-house, these pockets do serve me for a roome." A similar story is told by a period song, a recording of which was brought to dance class some weeks ago. The song, whose title I unfortunately do not know, tells the humorous story of a man who believed his breeches were full of devils: it turned out that the breeches, in which the man stored cheese, had become infested with rats. :-) The breeches in both these stories were probably trunk hose, a highly padded style popular in the second half of the 1500's. In "A Yorkshire Tragedy," an Elizabethan play of uncertain authorship sometimes attributed to William Shakespeare, the character Sam enters in scene 1 with "an almanack in my pocket, and three ballads in my codpiece." This by itself would not be very strong evidence, however, since the Oxford English Dictionary says the word pocket first meant a bag or sack. The example usage given for 1570, however -- "He bare always about hym, in hys bosom or pocket, a little booke contayning the Psalmes of Dauid." -- might be taken to indicate a doublet with a breast pocket. A pair of wide breeches, called galligascons after their origin in Gascony, made in England for the Court fool in 1575, were recorded in Egerton Manuscript #2806 as having "pocketts, poyntes & a peire of netherstockes to them." It seems unlikely that pouches would have been recorded as part of the breeches. There is also strong negative evidence that comes from examining Elizabethan-era portraits: pouches are seldom, if ever visible. It seems reasonable to assume, then, that the men who wore these costumes had some hidden means of carrying small personal articles. Interestingly enough, the only leg wear in Janet Arnold's book that does not have pockets is the pair of pluderhosen worn by Nils Sture, who had a pocket in his doublet. Based on this evidence, it seems that, from about 1560, a man's suit that did not have a pocket somewhere would be the exception rather than the rule. From: ewright at convex.com (Edward V. Wright) Date: 18 Oct 91 20:13:59 GMT Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA After posting the requested information on pockets in Elizabethan men's clothing, the question occured to me, "Did women have pockets also?" So, last night I opened up Janet Arnold's book and started looking at the female costumes. Sure enough, there is a skirt or petticoat in the Nationalmussel in Copenhagen that has a slit in the side for a pocket (although the pocket bag is now missing). This particular skirt dates from c. 1615; however, women's fashions changed slowly during the early 17th Century, so it seems reasonable to think they might have been used before 1600. Another possibility is pockets in women's doublets. These were virtually indistinguishable from male doublets not only to modern eyes (the one example Arnold shows was originally misidentified as a boy's doublet) but to Elizabethans as well: There are numerous period writings commenting on this fact, one of the most famous being Stubbes's "Anatomie of Abuses." Since a small minority of men's doublets did have pockets (as proved by the surviving specimen which belong to Nils Sture), some women's doublets may have had them as well. From: j_mohler at wmc34c.wmc.edu (Jason) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: How do I make a ruff? Date: 8 Jun 1996 03:48:55 GMT Organization: Western Montana College, Dillon MT My wife suggests you check out the book "Elizabethan Costuming for the Years 1550-1580" by Janet Winter & Carolyn Savoy published by Othertimes Publications in Orlando, California. It has a whole section on different kinds of ruffs. Erik Blackwood From: urthmomma at aol.com (UrthMomma) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Date: 09 Aug 2001 03:53:49 GMT Subject: Re: Elizabethan on the Cheap Robert, The health of your finances depends on what class of an Elizabethan persona you wish to portray. A courtier's outfitting can break the budget, but if you wish to portray a man at arms or tradesman, the dress is much more modest : linen and wool and leather shoes. Sumptary laws were in effect at the time, although it was a mark of status to afford to pay the tax. Linen shirt, woolen hose, woolen breeches or slops, a leather jerkin a woolen cap and leather shoes is the basic ensemble. Do a Google search for " Kentwell" "Tudor" and you will get a number of hits for a Tudor reenactment with over 200 in costume at an English country house. All clothing is handsewn and period fabrics. Lots of school groups go through and take lots of pictures which end up on the Web. Not a primary source, but great for getting a general idea of what the non gentry class wore in the 16th century. Ellin Richardson From: "james rich" <7152 at cableone.net> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Elizabethan on the Cheap Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 16:14:30 -0500 Inexpensive Elizabethan *can* be done. A few years ago, at one of our events, we had a competition category "Elizabethan Garb: under $20.00". It had to be documented not only as to style, but as to cost. ( Reciepts, etc. ) We had several beautiful entries. I can tell you that most found their fabric at Thrift Stores or bargain tables, or cannibilized other clothing. Ingenuity is everything. AElfwenna "Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make them all yourself." Robert A. Uhl wrote in message news:slrn9n3ulk.8so.ruhl at latakia.dyndns.org... > Well, I've been playing a Saxon for awhile now. Mundane > considerations have lead me to shave my beard, leaving naught but a > goatee and mustache. Since this is more appropriate to an Elizabethan > than to a Saxon, I've been thinking of putting together the > appropriate garb therefor. > > The problem is that every instance of Elizabethen garb I have seen has > been extraordinarily complex and expensive. Granted, that is the > nature of the beast. OTOH, it would be unpleasant were I not able to > have at least _some_ of the leeway I have when cutting tunics & > trousers. > > So my questions are these: > > 1) what's a good site for basic Elizabethan patterns? > 2) how cheaply cna one put together such garb? > 3) what hints/tips/advice can one give towards this end? > > I want to do the style as right as possible. I also want to be able > to buy food, and have time for other things. So I am in something of > a quandry. > > The poss. of having an immense codpiece, of course, doesn't enter into > the equation at all:-) > -- > Robert Uhl From: "Tanya Guptill (Mira)" Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Elizabethan on the Cheap Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 22:32:18 -0700 > "Robert A. Uhl" wrote: > > 1) what's a good site for basic Elizabethan patterns? Try http://www.vertetsable.com/ --- it just keeps expanding and getting better and better. Mira Silverlock An Tir From: margali Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Elizabethan on the Cheap Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 17:50:55 -0400 Margospatterns.com just released one heck of an elizabethan pattern set - 3 different ones covering different portions of garb. Well worth the money and impeccably researched. margali From: Mary Temple [mtemple at primemedical.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 1:08 PM To: bryn-gwlad at ansteorra.org Subject: RE: [Bryn-gwlad] Elizabethan Persona >I am looking at merchant class. I have champagne tastes, so I tend to like >some richer fabrics. LOL I also have questions about the heat here. >Luckily, in Germany, we were able to wear heavy (heavenly) fabrics because >it was cold (sometimes extremely so), so I'm going to have to rethink some >of my outfits. > >Lady Grace You might try the Elizabethan Costuming page as well - http://www.costume.dm.net Drea's done an amazing job with it. Mary/Katerine From: Lord Phelippe Descors [descors at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 12:44 AM To: Ansteorra Subject: [Ansteorra] Fw: Elizabethan Gentleman's Wardrobe Pattern: I haven't seen this on the list so this is forwarded from the Rialto. Phelippe Descors "Margo Anderson" wrote: > We are pleased to announce that we are now accepting advance orders > for the Elizabethan Gentleman's Wardrobe Pattern. Featuring the same > quality, content, and support as the already reknowned Elizabethan > Lady's Ensemble, this pattern will include patterns for doublets, > jerkins, slops, Venetian breeches, canions, and shirts. A 100+ page > instruction manual will also be included. Expected to ship in > November. > > To see technical drawings and to order, go to > http://www.margospatterns.com Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 15:38:37 -0400 From: Devra Subject: [Sca-cooks] Janet Arnold #4 is now ready! - commercial plug To: ICG-D at yahoogroups.com, jeanine at woollycat.net, cloak at ziplink.net, md at mdwordsmith.com, ecmami at hotmail.com, sca-cooks at ansteorra.org, ostgardr at panix.com The new Janet Arnold (#4 - Cut & construction of linen shirts, smocks, neckwear, headwear and accessories for men and women c. 1540 - 1660) is now available! Cost is $49.95 plus $3 postage. 128 pp, 14"x10", 433 color photos, 178 b/w photos & line drawings; 86 b/w patterns and detail. Available (as soon as I get my shipment) from: Poison Pen Press 627 E 8th St Bklyn NY 11218 or you can call me at 718-853-8121 Devra (and they told me December! Of course, it would make a lovely Yule gift...) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 10:59:33 -0400 From: Marie Stewart To: AEthelmearc List , Atlantia - MerryRose Subject: [MR] Research Resource: the wardrobe warrants of Queen Elizabeth I Drea Leed has finished her republishing of the inventories of Queen Elizabeth. She just released her work on the wardrobe warrants of Queen Elizabeth I, and has published them in their entirety, in a searchable website!! http://www.elizabethancostume.net/qewu.html From the MEDTC Discussion list -- "The Warrants: MS Egerton 2806 (1568-1588) Few monarchs of the past are as iconographically powerful as Queen Elizabeth I. Gloriana. The Virgin Queen. With her halo of red hair, ropes of jewelry and parade of fabulous gowns, she is defined by her clothing and accessories to a greater extent than almost any other English ruler. A fascination with her costume, and the dress of her era, has remained through the 18th century, Victorian times, and to this very day. Many books have been written about it, including the comprehensive and detailed masterwork by Janet Arnold, Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd. This book was based, in part, upon the extensive analysis of Queen Elizabeth's wardrobe accounts, specifically upon the manuscript MS Egerton 2806 held by the British Library. Unfortunately, though Arnold had transcribed the manuscript for her own use, it has never been published...until now. Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Uploaded holds the transcribed contents of MS Egerton 2806: The complete record of what Queen Elizabeth's tailors made, altered and bought between the years 1568 and 1588. I have spent the last several years transcribing the manuscript from microfilm, proofing it, and building a web database application that I have loaded it into, to facilitate searching and browsing. After much consideration, I have decided to make the manuscript freely available online to other researchers, rather than publishing it in hardbound form. My hope is to encourage and help others, across a wide range of disciplines, who are doing research on the dress and material culture of this area by making the text of these warrants available in easily searchable and browsable form. Areas of the site are still being improved. The glossary is being expanded and fleshed out. Synonym searching, which makes it easier to search the whimsically spelled accounts of 400 years ago, is being improved. In addition I am currently working on transcribing additional wardrobe accounts from 1588-1603, which I plan to add as they are finished." Franchesca Happy Hunting. Bridgette Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 17:16:27 -0400 To: "Atlantia" , "Atlantia?AnS" From: Liz Clark Subject: [EK] Fwd: [Ealdormere] Drea Leed publishes Elizabethan costume book online Snagged this from SCAtoday via the Ealdormere list. Freya -------------- Costume historian Drea Leed has recently published the wardrobe inventories of Queen Elizabeth I. Her work is available online in a searchable format. Leed writes: A fascination with her costume, and the dress of her era, has remained through the 18th century, Victorian times, and to this very day. Many books have been written about it, including the comprehensive and detailed masterwork by Janet Arnold, Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd. This book was based, in part, upon the extensive analysis of Queen Elizabeth's wardrobe accounts, specifically upon the manuscript MS Egerton 2806 held by the British Library. Unfortunately, though Arnold had transcribed the manuscript for her own use, it has never been published...until now. Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Uploaded holds the transcribed contents of MS Egerton 2806: The complete record of what Queen Elizabeth's tailors made, Altered and bought between the years 1568 and 1588. I have spent the last several years transcribing the manuscript from microfilm, proofing it, and building a web database application that I have loaded it into, to facilitate searching and browsing. http://www.elizabethancostume.net/qewu.html Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 16:12:55 +1000 From: "Tig" Subject: [Lochac] Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Uploaded To: "Shambles" New free search function for the wardrobe warrants of Queen Elizabeth I, by Drea Leed, from Janet Arnold's transcription of the Egerton manuscript. http://www.elizabethancostume.net/qewu.html and it works beautifully! Try typing 'coif' for example... ~ Tig From: countessdulcia at gmail.com Subject: Re: {TheTriskeleTavern} Tudor Patterns Date: December 14, 2011 7:35:22 AM CST To: the-triskele-tavern at googlegroups.com <<< And I just got Norris's "Tudor Costume and Fashion" which is a Dover Book. I'm reading up on Tudor myself--Anyone know how good a resource this is? >>> You need to be very careful with all of Herbert Norris' costume books. In spite of the modern publication dates in the front of the books and listed on websites like Amazon.com, Herbert Norris was a late 19th and early 20th century costume designer who died in 1950. He designed historically inspired theater costumes and stage sets for plays, films, and pageants. He worked in an era when archaeologists simply were not interested in clothing remains and deposits. Unless the clothing remains were both expensive and mostly preserved, textiles found in archaeological digs were boxed up for looking at later (which rarely happened) or simply disposed of. The 1959 excavation of the so called "Queen Arnegunde" grave by archaeologists Michel Fleury and Albert France-Lanord marked and important turning point in the treatment of textile remains because it was one of the first excavations where the archaeologists did make some attempts to study the textiles and draw some conclusions from them. Of course, since this kind of study was in its infancy and they weren't really focusing on the textiles, a lot of the conclusions they drew (and published) have later been found to be partially (and sometimes fully) incorrect. They also boxed up the textiles "for further study". The cardboard boxes full of completely decayed and destroyed textile samples were found in a pile in Michel Fleury's non-climate controlled office after his death in 2002. The boxes hadn't been opened since they were stacked 40+ years before. New textile experts have been trying to glean more information from the scraps, but that's a different discussion. =) Back to Norris... His work was for the theatre and movies and his goal was to produce outfits that people of the time visually identified with the period in mind, but also found attractive in to their modern sensibilities. If you think about what that means, the most obvious thing is that all figures are redrawn to the ideal figures of the time. Think about Elizabeth Taylor playing Cleopatra, or any other actress then or now. They are more interested in being attractive and "sexy" than they are in really looking like they live in whatever period of history, and it shows in the costuming. He was also working for theatre construction techniques - how to replicate a look quickly and easily, NOT how it was actually done in period. In general his diagrams are not only wasteful of fabric, they rarely really work to create a truly comfortable, long wearing, and properly fitting garment. He also doesn't give enough pattern diagrams to help most beginners, and non-beginners should be beyond what he provides. Many times I have found his observations and suppositions about things to be not just incomplete but just plain wrong. Then again, he wasn't worried about getting it "right", just how to make it look close enough. He doesn't provide any photographs of original works of art - everything is redrawn (which makes it secondary and tertiary sources at best), and if you put his re-drawings next to the originals you'll find that he not only changed the proportions of the figures (so that all the women look like they are wearing a Victorian or early 20th century corset and all the men are thin with broad shoulders and narrow waists!), but he changes many elements of the costumes and accessories as well. He claims to base everything he says on period evidence, but he rarely provides the sources for that evidence. He is also notorious for taking a few pieces of evidence that support his pet theories, ignoring other evidence, and drawing elaborate conclusions. He is not clear about when and where his evidence stops and his suppositions begin though, so you have be careful. I've heard it said that you just have to know where he is correct and then avoid using all the parts where he's not. In my opinion, if you already know enough to know when he's correct and when he's not, you don't need his books, and if you don't know that much, you sure aren't gonna' figure it out by reading Norris. On the other hand, Norris does have his uses. I own the three books that apply to the SCA timeline (Ancient, Medieval, and Tudor). I find that they are most useful when used as a tool for narrowing down when a particular fashion appeared, or for helping new people choose a period, by flipping through all the pictures. On the other hand, I have a number of other books that are also really only useful for that as well (Racinet, Holkeboer, Hill & Bucknell, Braun & Schneider, etc... there are a lot of them!). What makes Norris more useful in that sense is that he spends time on the transitions from one fashion high point to the next, whereas most of the gloss sources only hit the fashion high points. You can find the general period of something (as long as it's English, French or occasionally German or Spanish) and then know which of the better sources to look in, or the timeline of art you need to look at. So... glean what you can from it, but check EVERYTHING against good sources. Just my opinions based on my experience, Dulcia From: Dulcia MacPherson Date: December 15, 2011 7:45:58 AM CST To: the-triskele-tavern at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: {TheTriskeleTavern} Tudor Patterns I don't have that particular book, but I did a little research and it has some very nice reviews, so it looks like a good way to get started on your research.  You'll find that there is a TON of research available on life and lifestyles in various periods, but you won't find any of that in the usual "history" books because those are nearly always straight history (or about court intrigues). I can't begin to go through all the books that are out there, but I can give you the list of what I currently have in my library.  That will give you a list of titles and authors to look for.  Cressy, David Birth, Marriage, and Death: Ritual, Religion, and the Life Cycle in Tudor and Stuart England Freedman, Sylvia Poor Penelope: Lady Penelope Rich in Elizabethan England Friedman, Alice T. House and Household in Elizabethan England: Wollaton Hall and the Willoughby Family Hampton Court Palace The Tudor Kitchens Cookery Book Haynes, Alan Sex in Elizabethan England Hoby, Margaret and Joanna Moody The Private Life of an Elizabethan Lady: The Diary of Lady Margaret Hoby 1599-1605 Jones, Jeanne Family Life in Shakespeare's England: Stratford-Upon-Avon 1570-1630 Markham, Gervase The English Housewife (facsimile) Orlin, Lena Cowen Elizabethan Households:  an anthology Pearson, Lu Emily Elizabethans at Home Plowden, Alison Elizabethan England: Life in an Age of Adventure Ridley, Jasper Godwin The Tudor Age Sim, Alison Pleasures and Pastimes in Tudor England Sim, Alison Food & Feast in Tudor England Sim, Alison The Tudor housewife Singman, Jeffrey L. Daily Life in Elizabethan England (The Greenwood Press Daily Life Through History Series) Smith, Lacey Baldwin The Horizon Book of the Elizabethan World Tillyard, E. M. W.  The Elizabethan World Picture Watkins, Susan Public and Private Worlds of Elizabeth I Wells-Cole, Anthony Art and Decoration in Elizabethan and Jacobean England: The Influence of Continental Prints, 1558-1625 I've also heard that Maggie Secara's A Compendium of Common Knowledge, 1558-1603 is very good too. As far as researching Tudor and Elizabethan costuming go, I'll do the same thing.  This is the list of what I currently have in my library specifically on the topic: Alcega, Juan de Tailor's Pattern Book 1589 Arnold, Janet  Patterns of Fashion: The Cut and Construction of Clothes for Men and Women c.1560-1620 Arnold, Janet  Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd Arnold, Janet  A Handbook of Costume Ashelford, Jane Dress in the Age of Elizabeth I Ashelford, Jane The Art of Dress Ashelford, Jane The Visual History of Costume: The Sixteenth Century Brownfoot, Andrew High Fashion in Shakespeare's Time Cunnington, C. Willett Handbook of English Costume in the Sixteenth Century Cunnington, C. Willett The History of Underclothes Dupont_Aubaerville, M. Full-color Historic Textile Designs fischbach, Friedrich Historical Textile Patterns in Full Color Hart, Avril Historical Fashion in Detail: the 17th and 18th Centuries Harvey, Anthony The Funeral Effigies of Westminster Abbey Hearn, Karen Dynasties: Painting in Tudor and Jacobean England 1530-1630 Howard, Maurice The Tudor Image Hunnisent, Jean Period Costume for Stage & Screen:  Patterns for Women’s Dress 1500-1800 Macleod, Catherine Tudor Portraits: In the National Portrait Gallersy Collection Mikhaila, Ninya Tudor Tailor: Reconstructing Sixteenth-Century Dress Scarisbrick, Diana Tudor and Jacobean Jewellery Vincent, Susan Dressing the Elite:  Clothes in Early Modern England Vinciolo, Federico Renaissance Patterns for Lace, Embroidery and Needlepoint Waugh, Norah Corsets and Crinolines These two are on my wish list: Arnold, Janet Patterns of Fashion 4:  The cut and Construction of Linen Shirts, Smocks, Neckwear, Headwear and Accessories for Men & Women c. 1540-1660 Hayward, Maria Dress at the Court of King Henry VIII A lot of these books are very expensive, and/or out of print - however I also know that a number of these books are available in the university libraries in Florida.  In fact, the USF library has a lot of good sources since that's where I used to do the majority of my library scrounging before I moved to Gainesville.  Most university libraries will let the public sign up to borrow books.  You can also scan or copy the parts that you need for your research, as long as it's for your own use and you aren't sharing it.  Dulcia From: Dulcia MacPherson Date: December 15, 2011 2:23:07 PM CST To: the-triskele-tavern at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: {TheTriskeleTavern} Digest <<< Norris's drawings were redrawn by Dover. Colm Dubh >>> If that is the case (and I am not convinced that it is) the drawings, whether original to Norris or redrawn from Norris' drawings by Dover, are still worthless for documentation. I own facsimiles and actual (antique) copies of number of costuming books produced around the same time as Norris' books and the drawing style is very similar in all of them. In General, Dover books are so inexpensive because they use a photographic facsimile process and do as little editing and improving as possible. Regardless, a redrawing of a period work of art is useless for documentation, especially since many of Norris' are amalgamations of multiple outfits, rather than a representation of a single, actual outfit. Dulcia Edited by Mark S. Harris cl-Elzabethan-msg Page 11 of 11