aprons-msg - 6/2/99

Medieval aprons for both men and women.

NOTE: See also the files: cl-Norse-msg, p-kitchens-msg, linen-msg.

************************************************************************
NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have 
collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date 
back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These 
files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with 
separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes 
extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed 
to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  
no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the individual 
authors.

Please  respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these 
messages. The  copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this time. 
If  information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the 
originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************

From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Aprons?
Date: 30 Dec 1996 21:04:43 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley

Sasha (sasha at web2.calweb.com) wrote:
:       The other day I got to thinking....if I want to coom at events but
: don't want my clothes to get messy, I ought to have an apron (duh), but
: how do I make it period?
:       I'm familiar with the Norse women's apron from earlier period, but
: what would a man (like myself) wear, post-1400 or so?  How early did
: aprons assume their "modern" design?

I'm away from my books, so I can't make any specific recommendations, but
look for period illustrations of cooks at work or butchers -- both will
normally be found wearing aprons. The majority that I _remember_ seeing
are basically a rectangle of white (almost certainly linen) cloth, wrapped
almost all the way around the waist, but more likely tucked into a belt
rather than having self-ties like modern aprons. Like I say, look for
cooks and butchers in period art and you should have no problem.

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Aprons?
From: una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honour Horne-Jaruk)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 96 09:24:37 EST

sasha at web2.calweb.com (Sasha) writes:
>       The other day I got to thinking....if I want to coom at events but
> don't want my clothes to get messy, I ought to have an apron (duh), but
> how do I make it period?
>       I'm familiar with the Norse women's apron from earlier period, but
> what would a man (like myself) wear, post-1400 or so?  How early did
> aprons assume their "modern" design?
>       I have a Russian persona, if it matters, but any information would
> be helpful.  Thanks in advance.

        Respected friend:
        You can go either of two ways. In 1400, the"Old-fashioned" apron
was made from a small (9"by 9" or so) square of linen and a large 
(30'by 30' or larger)square of linen, plus ribbons or stitched ties.
(please pardon the ASCII art)
                        free edge-small square
                        |               |
                        |               |
                        |               |
                        |               |
                        |               |
                        -----------------
                        ^attatch cartridge-pleated edge 
                        of large square here^

        fold over small square and sew pleated edge inside it. 
Add ribbons (ties) to produce:


                (_)~(_)~(________________)~(_)~(_)~
                ^ribbon |               | ^ribbon
                        |               |
                        -----------------
                       |"""""""""""""""""|
                      |                   |
                     |                     |
              (_)~(_|                       |_)~(_)
                   |                         |
                   V   extend down to hem    V
        When worn, the top ties go over the shoulders and the side ties 
around the back, to an absolutely identical apron in the back. When 
one's messy, just spin 'em.

        After 1450-ish, everybody, even women, was wearing belts 
outside their gowns- aprons changed to a simple square of heavy 
linen, tucked in to the belt only at the center so that the corners
of the top hung free. 
        Me, I think the first one's a better apron. But version 2
requires no sewing and makes a fine emergency headcloth... }:-> 

                                Alizaunde, Demoiselle de Bregeuf
                                Una Wicca (That Pict)
                                (Friend) Honour Horne-Jaruk, R.S.F.


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: bnostran at lynx.neu.edu (Barbara Nostrand)
Subject: Re: Aprons?
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 07:26:12 GMT
Organization: de Moivre Institute

Noble Cousins!

> I'm away from my books, so I can't make any specific recommendations, but
> look for period illustrations of cooks at work or butchers -- both will
> normally be found wearing aprons. The majority that I _remember_ seeing
> are basically a rectangle of white (almost certainly linen) cloth, wrapped
> almost all the way around the waist, but more likely tucked into a belt
> rather than having self-ties like modern aprons. Like I say, look for
> cooks and butchers in period art and you should have no problem.

Self-ties as well as independent ties appear to have a noble lineage in 
Japan going back centuries.  Perhaps the idea was imported from Japan by 
the Portugese in the 16th century.  Self ties appear on Japanese clothing
at least as early as the Akusa period.  (ca. 600 CE)

Finally, consider looking into the sort of trade you are specifically
iterested in.  If it is cooking, then look at illustrations of what cooks
were wearing.  Please do not confine yourself to aprons.  There have been
a variety of overgarments used by different cultures to accomplish the
intended purpose.

                                          Your Humble Servant
                                          Solveig Throndardottir
                                          Amateur Scholar


From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Aprons?
Date: Thu,  2 Jan 1997 17:29:43 -0500
Organization: Computer Operations, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.org.sca: 30-Dec-96 Re: Aprons? by Heather Rose
Jones at uclin 
> I'm away from my books, so I can't make any specific recommendations, but
> look for period illustrations of cooks at work or butchers -- both will
> normally be found wearing aprons. The majority that I _remember_ seeing
> are basically a rectangle of white (almost certainly linen) cloth, wrapped
> almost all the way around the waist, but more likely tucked into a belt
> rather than having self-ties like modern aprons. Like I say, look for
> cooks and butchers in period art and you should have no problem.

In medieval art, almost any picture of a woman working will show her in
an apron -- the "month" pages of the Tres Riche Heures have several
examples, as do the various Medieval Woman's calendars.  The Hours of
Catherine of Cleves has several examples, both in the miniatures and in
the margins.

toodles, margaret 


From: srankin at op.net (Susan Rankin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Aprons?
Date: 2 Jan 1997 23:06:17 GMT
Organization: OpNet -- Greater Philadelphia Internet Service

grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu says...
>In medieval art, almost any picture of a woman working will show her in
>an apron -- the "month" pages of the Tres Riche Heures have several
>examples, as do the various Medieval Woman's calendars.  The Hours of
>Catherine of Cleves has several examples, both in the miniatures and in
>the margins.

      Hi Margaret!

      They could also try those Eyewitness Books, specifically the one about 
vikings and the one about castles.  These sources are short and to the point 
and have great illustrations/photographs.

       Susan


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Aprons?
From: una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honour Horne-Jaruk)
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 97 15:03:07 EST

sasha at web2.calweb.com (Sasha) writes:

>       Thank you for the very helpful reply...
> 
> una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honour Horne-Jaruk) writes:
> 
>       <Helpful ascii diagram snipped>
> 
> >     When worn, the top ties go over the shoulders and the side ties 
> >around the back, to an absolutely identical apron in the back. When 
> >one's messy, just spin 'em.
> 
>       Do you know if this was worn by both genders?  I'm not opposed to
> wearing a woman's apron, but if possibly I'd like to be more authentic.
> --
> sasha at calweb.com - rps at 42.gigo.com - http://www.calweb.com/~sasha
        Respected friend:
        1) You're welcome. I do love it when those Ascii things work...
        2) Both sexes, all ranks involved with kitchens, many years. It
lasted so long because of all the advantages- reversable (twice- with
linen, turning a stained apron inside-out often hides the stain); fits
_everybody_ - ties control so much of the fit, and the pleating makes
it accomodate fat and pregnancy equally well; minimal waste- If cut 
right, one five-yard length makes two nice long apron-sets (four 
individual panels); maximum re-useability- all the stitching can be
unpicked and the sections reversed, turned, or whatever to even out 
the wear; and maximum recyclability, as the worn aprons can be re-cut
into towels, etc. .
        In my original post, I forgot to mention that these were often 
worn under a belt, which gave you the option of pouching the front to
hold whatever you would need soon, or tying the lower corners through
the belt to carry larger items.
        I've seen manuscript illos of these as late as 1415, and maybe 
later (based on clothing styles). I don't think you'd have a problem.


                                Alizaunde, Demoiselle de Bregeuf
                                Una Wicca (That Pict)
                                (Friend) Honour Horne-Jaruk, R.S.F.


From: waltern at thoreau.rand.org (Walter Nelson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Aprons?
Date: 14 Jan 1997 19:19:56 GMT
Organization: RAND Corporation

: sasha at web2.calweb.com (Sasha) writes:

: >     The other day I got to thinking....if I want to cook at events but
: > don't want my clothes to get messy, I ought to have an apron (duh), but
: > how do I make it period?
: >     I'm familiar with the Norse women's apron from earlier period, but
: > what would a man (like myself) wear, post-1400 or so?  How early did
: > aprons assume their "modern" design?
: >     I have a Russian persona, if it matters, but any information would
: > be helpful.  Thanks in advance.

It depends on what you are doing.

If you are a man working with hot or pointy things that might injure you
(e.g. a Smith or a Shoemaker) you would probably have a leather apron.  If
you are just trying to keep the filth off you, you would probably have a
linen apron.

In an interesting 15th Century illumination reproduced in the "Visual
History of Costume" series (the 14th/15th Century volume), there are
several workmen at a construction site wearing a style of apron that has
the advantage of being rather different from modern styles.  I have no idea
if it would be appropriate for a denizen of Moskovy or Novgorod though.

The lower portion is pretty standard, being the usual square piece of
fabric hanging down in front, from the waist. It is held in place by a
narrow linen tape, that incircles the waist and is tied in back.  It hangs
down to about the knees.

The interesting bit is the "bib" front.  Above the waist, it tapers upward
to a point just below the chin.  At that point, it is held up by a button
(it might be the top button of the doublet).

It is made of linen.

Walter Nelson 
walter_nelson at rand.org


Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 14:39:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rooscc at aol.com
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: garden wear

On dragging shirt tails or smock fronts through the mud
when gardening: I think they wore aprons. I haven't seen
a picture of an apron on a male gardener in period, but
think there was a mention of them in a gardner's
inventory (maybe in John Harvey's *Medieval Gardens*?)
Early modern gardeners' aprons looked something like
a hospital gown and also tied around the legs (otherwise
you'd just have more stuff to drag in the mud when you
bent over!). Assorted pockets were added. Isn't there
a carpenter's apron constructed something like this?

Alysoun
Middle


Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 12:52:31 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Commemorative Cooking

Gee. The worst thing I've ever done to an innocent piece of garb was to
leap headfirst into a lit convection oven while wearing my lovely white
14th century Mediterranean cook's cote that Mistress Katherine
Gilliesfleur made me. (How's THAT for gonzo?)

The cote, BTW, is the nicest piece of work garb you could imagine. I
took a new white Bragard chef's coat over to Mistress Katherine's one
day, and asked her to help me find a period functional equivalent, that
does everything a chef's coat does: bias gusseted in the backs of the
shoulders to allow freedom of movement, double-thick cuffs (long so they
could be rolled up for extra protection, a quilted breast and high
collar to protect against scald burns, and many little cloth buttons so
it can be ripped off quickly in case of fire. A little round baker's
cap, like a vented sailor hat, goes with it.

Adamantius


Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 18:49:06 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - period chef's cotes

Mark Harris wrote:
> I have one file in Stefan's Florilegium on such protective clothing:
> 
> aprons-msg        (18K)  6/ 6/97    Medieval aprons for both men and women.
> 
> I wasn't aware of any medieval items like this with sleeves. I would love
> to have more information on this cote. Do you have any bibliographic
> info on where interested folks could find more info? Either pictures or
> descriptions?

Well, I may have one picture which, if I can find it, could probably be
scanned and e-mailed or posted. Essentially it is a fairly standard
14th-century cote, distinguished from a cotehardie by the fact that it
doesn't fit quite as closely, is longer, and generally less ornate than
a man's cotehardie.

I seem to have lost this garment, though. I had one of those situations
where I neglected to take it with me after leaving an event. I asked
someone else, not in a moving vehicle at the time, to grab it and get it
to me, and either they failed to grab it, or it ended up in somebody's
armor bag or some such. It is missing in action, and may never turn up.
I'll have to get another one made, or try making one myself.

The cote was made of off-white cotton upholstery denim, with a faint
twill pattern, as most denim has. It was cut, ostensibly, as a cote, but
behaved like a good-quality chef's coat. It opened up down the front,
using little cloth buttons and loops, that allowed the garment to be
torn open and quickly removed in case of being scalded by boiling oil,
or fire, or something like that. Instead of the double breast of a
modern chef's coat, this cote had a quilted breast, again, to protect
against ambient radiant heat and burning liquids, etc. Extra long
sleeves, with a double layer of fabric in the forearms to the edge of
the cuffs, again, to protect against burns. Better protection still was
available by cuffing up the sleeves a bit, which, as I say, were extra
long (almost knuckle length).

Sleeves were inset, and there were these weird curved seams across the
shoulderblades and down the back, creating a biased seam which allowed
me to stretch my arms up or out without straining the fabric or exposing
too much of my arm.

Oh, and there was a high collar, kinda like a Nehru jacket, to protect
the neck from heat/burns.

I feel naked cooking in a dalmatica, for all the aprons and oven mitts,
etc., that I have.

Ras, are you getting all this?

Adamantius


Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:50:29 -0700
From: Brett and Karen Williams <brettwi at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: SC - Master Adamantius' lost cote

Master Adamantius writes:
> The cote was made of off-white cotton upholstery denim, with a faint
> twill pattern, as most denim has. It was cut, ostensibly, as a cote, but
<snip>
> 
> I feel naked cooking in a dalmatica, for all the aprons and oven mitts,
> etc., that I have.
> 
> Ras, are you getting all this?
> 
> Adamantius

(grin) *I* am, and hey, you're talking about something of which I know a 
little. Me, I'm a cloth addict who likes to eat well, which is why I
lurk here instead of doing family law. 

The deeply curved armsceye seams sounds exactly like a description of the 
surviving quilted and padded cotehardie-- a correct citation of which 
escapes me at the moment. One of the many Charles the ____ seems to 
spring to mind. Denim is 'cloth de Nimes', according to SCA scuttlebutt;
more to the point, it's 3/1 cotton twill which by virtue of the long
warp and weft floats over adjacent threads will be more forgiving of 
bias stretch and drape than a tabby-woven cloth (which means plain 
weave). I would personally prefer to use a linen twill (if you look 
at the Shroud of Turin in close up at its website, it's a 3/1 twill),
but they're hard to find. Linen has the unique property of being 
able to shed dirt more easily than other fibers (dissertation on the 
cell structure omitted for brevity). Linen is a little less likely
to go 'funt' than cotton.

At any rate, in Koehler, which is a mixed bag of uselessness and highly
useful information, there's a diagram for cutting a sleeve along these
lines on page 185, shown in a garment on page 184. While the garment
shown is one of those scandalously short houpelande-types, this sleeve would 
accomplish the same effect of being able to swing the arm through a wide
range of motion. A modern armsceye (such as found on a mundane shirt or 
'sport coat') will not suffice. The full name of the book is "A History
of Costume", Carl Koehler (it's really an umlaut) and it's in print
from Dover Books as ISBN 0-486-21030-8.

The sleeve cited will fit into a squared-off armsceye rather than a 
rounded one. It's also sufficiently loose enough and square enough to
handle the quilting and long cuffs described. When I first read Master
Adamantius' description, my first thought was that someone who really 
knew cloth and its properties well had designed his garment with its
intended purpose exactly in mind-- a success in cloth. 

ciorstan


Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 08:47:05 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
To: mark_harris at risc.sps.mot.com
Subject: Re: SC - cooks' cotes

Mark Harris wrote:
> For the files, a bibliographic referance giving where the picture may be
> found would be useful. That way people who can't get graphical images
> could still find a picture.

The Medieval Health Handbook: Tacuinum Sanitatis, Edited and with notes
by Luisa Cogliati Arano, pub. George Braziller, New York, 1976. ISBN
0-8076-0808-4, LOC # 75-21725 
 
> In both messages you've posted you describe the cote you have. I'm still
> not sure which (or all) features were period since you really describe
> the cote you have and not what can be seen in the pictures.

What I said was that the cote was designed to function with the ease of
movement and protective qualities of a modern chef's coat. It is also
designed to look like a period cote, as shown in several illustrations
in Tacuinum Sanitatis. I can't vouch for whether or not the specific
pattern design is what was used in period, as that isn't my area of
expertise. However, the cote was designed and made by someone for whom
period costume is her area of expertise, and subsequent comments from
others on the SCA-cooks list suggest that it could well have been done
exactly that way.

So, the garment is period-looking, and whether or not closer inspection
will reveal flaws in its periodicity has yet to be determined...in the
mean time I highly recommend the design for cooks who wish to remain
safe while cooking and look spiffy while doing it.

BTW, the cote, for what it's worth, is the primary garment that you wear
with hosen or trews, under your apron.

I'll look for the picture and talk to Mistress Katherine about a drawing
of the pattern, which I suspect would be more helpful. This shouldn't be
too much trouble, since we will have to be making a new one anyway.

Adamantius


Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 00:19:14 -0500
From: Karen at stierbach.atlantia.sca.org (Larsdatter, Karen )
To: Elisabeth Borden <ldyelisbth at yahoo.com>, sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Italian Renn Garb Question

<snip> ... cos I don't have a good answer for the first question ... ;)

Lady Elisabeth Borden (cute name ... have you got it past the
heralds yet?) ;) wrote:

> Second question...  these girls weren't wearing aprons, and were
> working in the kitchen.  Are aprons something which would have been
> worn?  And if so, does anyone know what style it would have been?

Check out the frescoes of "The Triumph of Minerva," from the late
15th century, by Cosimo Tura and Francesco Cossa.  One of the
panels features a great many young ladies embroidering, spinning,
and weaving.  One of the girls wears a green apron over a white
dress.

The only place I can find online with a picture of this fresco is:
http://people.ne.mediaone.net/benfatto/spindles/spinner.html

Karen Larsdatter

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	aprons-msg