child-tags-msg - 5/20/12 Using various tags to identify children at SCA events. NOTE: See also the files: children-msg, children-SCA-lnks, toys-msg, chd-actvites-msg, tokens-msg, event-pricing-msg, reservations-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: "Hawke" Date: April 27, 2008 9:45:01 AM CDT To: trimaris-temp at yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [tri-temp] Kingdom Law regarding Children Under 12 - Please read and cross p <<< As for identification of youth, perhaps a token secured to the youths clothing, belt would be a neat idea. A wooden token with the child and parent guardian painted, inscribed, burned or laminated on the token would be a good idea. I would be happy to help design and manufacture them. >>> Dogtags also seem to work well -- there are printing machines at places like Walmart and Petsmart, and you can let your kids chose the design ( military dogtags, hearts, 'dog' dogtags, whatever ). Perhaps not exactly period, but they're easy to keep track of and seem to be harder for kids to accidentally lose. From: "Carrie Barnes" Date: April 27, 2008 9:48:38 AM CDT To: trimaris-temp at yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [tri-temp] Kingdom Law regarding Children Under 12 - Please read and cross post Please do not advocate putting this information anywhere visible. I realize that this is supposed to be for safety reasons but my mundane children + safety training says to avoid putting the child's name on their clothing where it can be read by anyone. The reason for this is that anyone wishing to do a child harm gains confidence in the child when they can address them by name. I would like to think that this wouldn't happen here but as we unfortunately have all seen, it can happen anywhere. Grainne mhic Neill From: "Joyce Reitor" Date: April 27, 2008 9:56:04 AM CDT To: trimaris-temp at yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [tri-temp] Kingdom Law regarding Children Under 12 - Please read and cross post > Please do not advocate putting this information anywhere visible. I realize > that this is supposed to be for safety reasons but my mundane children + > safety training says to avoid putting the childs name on their clothing > where it can be read by anyone. The information does not have to openly visible. However, upon request from a constable, the child must be able to immediately present the identification. A few suggestions can be a lamented card placed in the child's pouch or military style dog tags that could be worn beneath the child's clothes. I have found quite a few websites that offer different style of identification materials for a reasonable price. If you are interested in any of these sites, please contact me at joycereitor at gmail.com and I will gladly forward them to you. Aubray From: Susan Baker Date: April 28, 2008 7:21:55 PM CDT To: trimaris-temp at yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [tri-temp] Kingdom Law regarding Children Under 12 - Please read and cross post There have been several parents who embroider the information inside a little flap at the back neckline of their child - this worked wonderfully!! Sireena Joyce Reitor wrote: The information does not have to openly visible. However, upon request from a constable, the child must be able to immediately present the identification. From: Jena Kirby Date: March 5, 2009 2:17:20 PM CST To: Ansteorra Subject: [Ansteorra] Interesting Idea for Kids at War I just ran across a cool idea that I thought might interest some parents who are taking their kids to war. It's a safety "tattoo" that lasts about 5 days. You can either design your own or get write-in ones. http://www.safetytat.com/ HE Wu From: Brandon McDermott Date: April 17, 2009 9:37:48 AM CDT To: " Inc.Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA" Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Feeding toddlers at events I posted a while back about "REMOVABLE CHILD INFO/SAFETY TATTOOS". They are awesome and cheap. Just Google them. Lochlan From: "Megan Timperley/ Sayyidi Umm Ya'kub Rayya al-Zahra' bint Fath al-Badawiyya" Date: July 8, 2011 8:29:31 AM CDT To: CALONTIR at listserv.unl.edu Subject: Re: [CALONTIR] kids gone wild I've just finished a favor for my toddler to use at Pennsic, on the very slim chance he gets away from me... It has a design from our sheet wall on it, and a pocket inside that holds a laminated card. On that card is all the tracking/contact information anyone needs to return him if he gets lost, with on and off site numbers, health details and such things. It maynt work for older kids, but something like that for younger ones is nice... Rayya From: Sarah Gutekunst Date: July 8, 2011 10:11:13 AM CDT To: CALONTIR at listserv.unl.edu Subject: Re: [CALONTIR] kids gone wild Both of my children wear "favors". I had dog tags engraved with thier names, our names, our barony and my cell phone number on them. They are attached to black and yellow tablet woven bands and hang from the belt. The tags are so shiny that they are hard to miss. And my kids love the idea of wearing my favor. I have also specifically taught my youngest, (he's 4) that if he is lost he finds the nearest shiny hat (they are all crowns to him) and shows them his favor. He's kind of adult shy, so for him to have to try to explain that he's lost might be hard for him. But he's always ready to show off his favor. He's quite proud of it! While I realize that there is a slight chance that this might someday cause him to interrupt the Crown if he gets lost, I can't imagine anyone sitting the Calontir Throne that would have a problem with that. And he's always adult supervised, to the point that I bring a babysitter to war. 3 adults for 2 kids, and still sometimes the kids outnumber us. :) Seraphina From: Tim McDaniel Date: February 7, 2012 10:18:32 PM CST To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Children in the Sca On Tue, 7 Feb 2012, donnelshaw at aol.com wrote: <<< That is why today we ask parents to put the child's name on the inside of the back pack or the part next to their body so it can not be read from a distance. >>> I don't suppose I can suggest the child wearing a tabard of their parent's / parents' arms suitably differenced, as long as the parent* are displaying the undifferenced arms? It's visible ID, it doesn't reveal the child's name (unless it happens to be "Number Two Son" or "Crescent"), and yay! more heraldry! Dankyn de Lyncoln From: Hugh & Belinda Niewoehner Date: February 7, 2012 10:19:51 PM CST To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Children in the Sca On 2/7/2012 10:08 PM, donnelshaw at aol.com wrote: <<< Hospital wrist bands will still give you access to the child's info but can not be read from a distance. >>> Amen! It should have the parents info, not the child's. "A return to ... kind of info." If I had a kid, they would wear that as a tattoo. We put chips in our pets, don't we? My husband travels a lot for his job and I have been know to put our phone number on a hidden part of his body just in case he ends up in a hospital (or God forbid somewhere worse). Muggers might steal his ID with the wallet. I don't want him ending up somewhere as a "John Doe". Ismet From: Benjamin Berry Date: February 7, 2012 11:19:42 PM CST To: Rose , "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Children in the Sca From: Rose : <<< I have temporary tattoos printed with my telephone number on them. I apply them to my kiddos before we go to crowded events (festivals, etc., because I don't generally take them to SCA events). They know the number, but if they were injured and were unable to relay it, there it is on their arm. You could do the same thing on the cheap with a marker or pen. -R >>> another thought is that any Army surplus will make custom tags cheaply. have them put mommy and daddy's Cell numbers on the tag...with SCA names or mundane if you want. Little one can have it in a pocket, tied on the belt, or on a leather cord under garb. They are very hard to read from a distance but very clear when needed. just my two cents....take it as you will. From: Charlene Charette Date: February 8, 2012 1:18:50 AM CST To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Children in the Sca On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 12:35 AM, Stefan li Rous wrote: <<< I think that this is a wonderful resource, but I'm not sure how I would find such a store. Academy Surplus used to be an army surplus store, but they are more of a sporting goods store now. >>> There are places online where you can order personal dog tags that are designed for runners, etc. who want ID on them, but don't have pockets. There are the traditional tag on a ball chain style and ones that you lace onto your shoes. I have one for when I'm out walking or biking alone. I bought one for François since he travels so much, but he got tired of keeping track of it after going through the TSA. --Perronnelle From: Padraig Ruad O'Maolagain Date: February 8, 2012 9:16:14 AM CST To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Child ID Tags (was:Children in the Sca) Another readily available option might be an actual dog tag - available at any Petsmart or other pet supply store, machine engraved while you wait with the information you want for less than $10. String it on a chain, ribbon or bracelet, or pin it to the child's clothing, like military style tags it can only be read close up. Padraig From: Rose Date: February 8, 2012 12:38:10 AM CST To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Children in the Sca They offer several kinds, including a write-on tattoo where you could write your cell number, camp area, or anything else. Of course, you can do this without a tattoo, as well, but my kiddos think they're fun. I got them from: http://www.safetytat.com -R From: Chris Zakes Date: February 8, 2012 6:19:07 AM CST To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Children in the Sca <<< I don't suppose I can suggest the child wearing a tabard of their parent's / parents' arms suitably differenced, as long as the parent* are displaying the undifferenced arms? It's visible ID, it doesn't reveal the child's name (unless it happens to be "Number Two Son" or "Crescent"), and yay! more heraldry! Dankyn de Lyncoln >>> We did something like that when our kids were little. They wore a "Daddy banner"--a small copy of my arms, pinned to their clothes. It was never needed because we kept a close eye on the kids when they were real little and taught them to be sensible and responsible as they got bigger. When my granddaughter was here for the White Scarf 30th Anniversary a couple of years ago, she got to wear the Daddy banner, too. From: Adria Lorelle Date: February 8, 2012 8:09:57 PM CST To: " Inc.Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA" Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Child ID Tags We use to have favors with name, parents name, and group on one side and blank on the other side so the children could personalize themselves. Adria --- On Wed, 2/8/12, Cait O'Hara wrote: <<< One thing that Gulf Wars does is to put wrist bands out at troll. They offer the bands for each parent to put on their child if they wish. It has a place to put the parent's name, number and where they are camping. Cait >>> From: Chris Zakes Date: February 9, 2012 6:23:50 AM CST To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Child ID Tags << One thing that Gulf Wars does is to put wrist bands out at troll. They offer the bands for each parent to put on their child if they wish. It has a place to put the parent's name, number and where they are camping. Cait >> <<< I think that this should be made a requirement, not just be made available. Again, one of the reasons is to show that the SCA is making efforts to safeguard the child, as well as, I think, these bands being useful. How do you get all that info onto a wrist band though? Or are these wider than the half-inch wide band I am imagining? If these were removable, and thus re-useable, would we have problems with children taking them off and losing them (or swapping them?) or do they need to be the type that you can't easily remove without destroying them? Stefan >>> Back when Ansteorra was doing the wristband-thing, the bands were about an inch wide. They could not usually be removed unless the fastening was deliberately loose so the kid could slide it off. Normally they would have to be cut off. (They were hospital ID wristbands, you don't want the patients removing them on a whim.) On the other hand, by the time our kids were around six or seven, they thought the wristbands were a waste of time--they knew who they were, who their parents were and where our campsite and listfield pavillion was located. They also had sense enough not to wander off and get lost. -Tivar Moondragon From: Jennifer Smith Date: February 9, 2012 9:45:47 AM CST To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Child ID Tags On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 6:23 AM, Chris Zakes wrote: <<< On the other hand, by the time our kids were around six or seven, they thought the wristbands were a waste of time--they knew who they were, who their parents were and where our campsite and listfield pavillion was located. They also had sense enough not to wander off and get lost. >>> That's the thing. In schools, children are taught -- and quizzed! -- to remember their parents' names, their phone number, and sometimes even their house address, in kindergarten. (Okay, so my oldest kid confused her teacher to no end when she reported that her parents were "...and Emma"...) We parents should add SCA information to that list for events. Younger than that, or unable to report useful info when questioned by an adult, and they probably do need a tag of some sort. But not necessarily *always*: Kid #1, when she was very young, would completely freak out when a wristband was attached. I'm not talking the usual toddler "I don't like that" fits, I'm talking giant panicing wailing fits. Which would you rather have near you at an event: an all-smiles toddler who won't travel further than her 10' invisible leash from mom (without freaking out), or a shrieking and crying upset child? Yeah. Kid #2, when she was very young, was much more mellow, but also wouldn't wander off. Even now that she's 7, she still won't, even if I want her to. :) Kid #1 when she got to be about 7-8, wanted to wander off (to children's activities, to play, etc), and I made sure she had a tag then -- usually sewn to the back of her belt, which she much preferred to a plastic wristtag. Now that she's 12, I don't bother tagging her at all. This sounds like I'm fairly anti-tag, but I'm not, really: I just want people to recognize that we need some flexibility. Some kids like to wander, some don't. -Emma From: Jolene Graves Date: February 12, 2012 10:44:07 AM CST To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Children ID Tags! When my kids were younger I either has a favor on their belt or a tabord. Embroidery or fabric paint the information. With the favors I put the mundane information on the back. On Feb 11, 2012 7:20 PM, "Pukhta 'Pooky' Lovtsevich" < pookyloves at gmail.com> wrote: <<< Good and Wonderful Day Ansteorra, I have thought for many years that a form of I.D. Tag for children is a necessary thing to have happen. Pooky Story Time: Often, all too often, a child is not with their parent or legal guardian and experience a momentary laps of happiness. So there is a upset crying child, mild to moderately hysterical, and either too young or too upset or too unfamiliar to share their parental or legal guardian's information such as SCA Name, Camping Group / Household or SCA Group. What I need on a Children ID Tag, minimally, is: Child's Name Par / Leg Guar's SCA Name Group e,g, Wolfstar or Hellsgate or Pooky's Friend (for new people they could list the person that introduced them to the SCA) Phone Number (I think parent's should carry their phone and be permitted to step to one side and answer their phone without getting attitude for funging up the period schwe' of others) Another Pooky Point: It would be really really helpful if Parents and Legal Guardians would make sure their child knows where their Child ID Tag is on their personage. A 6'6", 320 pound, bald, serious-looking male rifling over the outer garments of a crying-hysterical child, might appear unseemly. Mandating a specific place the Child ID Tag is carried probably wont work cause some kid wont like it, and therefore less accepting and compliant. Mandating the type of id tag probably wouldn't work because some Parents and Legal Guardians or Children Youths or Minors would for example prefer it sewn into the garb than worn around the neck. In my humble opinion, mandating children be identifiable by a means other than their upset voice is good for them, and I think good for the SCA. More educated officers than I should consider what if Ansteorra provided each (location) group plenty, like 50-100 tags (like keychain or luggage) to write the previously mentioned information upon. These could be made available at gate at events, at populous meetings, etc. Then the SCA could say we make available the means by which children can be identified, and it is of course the responsibility of the parent or legal guardian to follow up and administer the process. Wouldn't that be a step that shows the legal world that we as a group have taken a(nother) step to help ensure child safety and lower the possibility of indemnification for the SCA? More Pooky Story: Picture if you will hearing a crying child in a parking lot, with a lord in a simple attempt at a tunic or a lady in a dress... Parent or Predator? and this moment is possibly the last chance in this life for the child. I fear that every day I am at an event. We are so open, and assume in ways that Respect is commonplace {at least that's me} that we as a group need to ensure the SCA lowers indemnification probability and oh yes have a way to get a child back into the responsible hands of the correct Parent or Legal Gruardian.. Assuming Parents and Legal Guardians will maintain the responsibility to make sure something doesn't come back on the SCA, isn't realistic. Assuming Parents and Legal Guardians will be on time to pick up their charge after an MoC Activity, isn't realistic. Respect and Loving Gratitude, Honorable Baron Pukhta 'Pooky' Lovetsevich Compass Rose Northern Regional Minister of Children (Prospective) Ansteorran Youth and Family Council Representative >>> Edited by Mark S. Harris child-tags-msg Page 9 of 9