babies-msg - 1/14/08 Camping with babies. Handling babies at SCA events. Infant safety. NOTE: See also the files: baby-gifts-msg, children-msg, child-clothes-msg, child-books-msg, teething-toys-msg, toys-msg, child-wagons-msg, baby-slings-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Babies at Penssic I took a nine month old to Pensic last year. Because she kept growing too fast, i didn't even try to put her in garb. I just took various of her regualr clothes. I also used disposable diapers. And all her food came out of boxes and bottles. Open a jar of baby food, feed it to her, and throw away the jar. No dishes to clean (you feed her straight from the bottle, no need to warm it up) In the morning I made her cereal from dry flakes, and sometimes fed it to her during the day when it seemed too hot and she was fussy. This stuff won't upset an overstressed stomach. Do not use Pensic water, not for you or the kid. You don't want to run the risk that you might develop something, and then you would find yourself making mad dashes for the porta johns with a baby tucked under your arm. Take enough bottles so that you don't have to wash them. Sterilizing is next to impossible at Pensic, and is too much hassle to even try. If you use distilled water to make formula, then you don't need to boil the water first. Some people worry about distilled water leaching minerals from a person. Don't worry, the formula has full nutrition. And I reccommend formula, don't try to take milk, your refrigeration at Pensic is too unrelibale. A helpful hint: soy fomrula does not stain, and doesn't smell nearly as bad as milk based formula. If your child gets moderately ill, they will be able to drink soy formula diluted more than usual when you you couldn't use milk formula because the kid throws it up. It's also not nearly as bad for you to get covered in soy vomit rather than milk vomit. This has happened to me, and believe me, at times like that, little blessings are greatly appreciated. Do take something that you can set up to prevent your child wandering, and shade it. Always keep your child covered, they are much more prone to sunstroke and sunburn than adults. Give them lots and lots of water. Whenever they fuss, stick a bottle of water into them. Then check diaper and other usual causes of complaint. You can't over water a child, they'll jsut pee it out. Try to keep an eye to input and output, if they are not more or less equal, you have a serious problem. Children who are suffering illness or heat exhaustion will become more ittitable, or conversely, quieter. If your child seems to be deviating from its usual behaviour, investigate. Check temperature (do bring a thermometer and acetominaphn, anti-diarhea medication, diaper rash medication, antihistiamine, and any other medication you might possibly want. This includes a jug of Pedialyte-one jug will allow you to feed a child while some ones else rushes to the drug store to stock up on pedialyte for you.) If your child throws up, convert to clear liquids and consult a chirurgeon. Vomitting or diarhea can kill a child with dehydration within a few hours. WAter is not adequate, Pedialyte contains elotrolytes and other necessary substances. Remember to take some alcohol to sterilize the thermomet and other medical apparatus after each use. Pensic is hot, be alert, your small infant will suffer from the heat at some point, but if you are alert you can take necessary steps to prevent serious problems form developing. Taking a child to Pensic is doable, but not easy. My husband and I were snappish with one another, and found our activities greatly curtailed. We took turns staying with the child and going off by ourselves. We did not party, we were too beat. A noble lady volunteered to babysit for us and we shot our archery points together. My husband vetoed taking the stroller as being unsuited to the Pensic terrain, but I wish I had some sort of transportation because you get tired of hauling a kid around. I think maybe a wagon would be good, it means to can put your babycare kit in the wagon with the baby instead of carrying it. Also, if you get tired, you have something to sit on. Make sure you drink lots of liquids, particualry water, as worrying about a kid, plus serving the kids needs will take a lot more out of you than you ever imagined it would. I don't want to scare you into not taking kids to Pensic, but if you're doing it alone, or with your partner, you're biting off a big undertaking. We were unable to camp with our group, so our casual babysitters were not around when we needed them. Having someone to babysit for you is a godsend. I applaud Marian Greenleaf for working so diligently to accomodate her groups children. That kind of group support makes a world of difference. Unfortunately, it doesn't happen here, even though I've made attmepts to start it. Yours in service. Awilda Halfdane Bright Hills, Atlantia sgj%ctj.uucp at wb3ffv.ampr.org From: Orilee_J_Ireland-Delfs.wbst845 at XEROX.COM Date: 15 Feb 90 21:37:25 GMT Organization: Society for Creative Anachronism (I sent the gentle who asked a long dissertation on taking a baby camping. I would like to summerize for the net as a whole. If anyone has questions or comments on my list, feel free to contact me.) Items to consider: A play yard (fence-type item with no bottom. Wooden ones are available if you can find them, Sears has an okay (although expensive) plastic one). A wading pool or tub for cooling off and bathing Baby-type items for keeping baby happy yet confined for times when you are cooking or whatever (highchair, swing) A little imagination could dress it up to make it look less mundane Easy to prepare foods. Juices in individual cartons (lots of juice - good for hot weather). Crackers, cheese, cereal (wheat squares with raisins are good munchies), bread and peanut butter, fruit (bananas, grapes, apple chunks) fresh or dried. A trunk to use as a changing table/storage A portable crib or foam bolsters around a pile of bedding Heavy pajama sleepers for the cool damp nights Sun bonnets (made in period fabrics) Baby sun screen Bug repellant that is child-tested Light weight garb in cottons or gauze that covers the arms and legs as protection from sun and bugs Heavy weight garb for cooler weather, particularly for layering, including mittens and booties for real little ones who can't protect their hands A babysitter for occasional babysitting time A cart or wagon to carry the baby in, particularly at big events blankets or throws to play on Toys Obviously, everything on this list should be modified to age-appropriate for the child. Also, if you have period substitutes for these things, Lady Orianna vander Delft, mother of a very active 2 1/2 year old Thescorre, AEthelmearc, East Rochester, NY From: asparrow at nyx.cs.du.edu (Angelia Sparrow) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Camping with Babies Date: 16 May 1994 09:42:45 -0600 Lilies is not Pennsic and a 2 month old is not a five month old, but Here's what I have. Baby will be fine either sleeping in your bedroll (handy for late night nursings), a portable bassinette basket (what we used, may be too small for a 5 mo.) or a play pen. The play pen is my choice and I'll be putting my 2 in it for sleep at the Lilies this summer. It's nice and confining for the big kids. Take lots of diapers! Treble what you think you'll need, and store them in a water tight container. I lost half a bag during Pavel's Flood last year. A front carrier pack is indispensible! And your broad-brimmer hat should provide enough shade for both. But, if he'll wear it, pack bonnets. It really helps. Sunscreen, specially formulated for babies, and ignore the under 6 mo warning. It's necessary. PArental sanity: take more trhan one adult per kid. Nap when the baby does. Don't over schedule. Don't be afraid to nurse in public. Drink lots of water. Be prepared to call it a night at 8 pm, instead of 2 am. The magic expanding baby dress in the old KNown WorldHandbook is a life saver. (Make a T-tuni wqay too big and then take it up.) Aetyhelynde, with a terrible Two for Lilies this year. From: berman at cauchy.math.lsu.edu (Glenn Berman) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Camping with Babies Date: 18 May 1994 14:16:45 GMT Organization: Louisiana State University InterNetNews Site Just one follow up to the excellent suggestions already posted. Choose your campsite very very carefully so that the noise won't wake up the young one at 1 A.M., and don't be afraid to let people know that you have a child and would appreciate they take the volume to some other section of the event site. Best of Luck (taking my child to any sort of camping makes me yearn for Monday when I can get a good nights sleep(but it's worth it)) From: una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honour Horne-Jaruk) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Camping with Babies Summary: tips, medically-orientd mostly Date: Tue, 17 May 94 11:52:03 EDT kgandek at world.std.com (Kathryn GandekTighe) writes: > This August we will be taking our 5 month old son to Pennsic. Having > been there as adults, we've got that part of the camping down to habit. > However, going with a baby obviously involved other considerations! I'd > be interested to hear anyone else's handy tips/things that worked for > you. How did you handle the heat? the sun? the cold? In what did your > child sleep? Any parental sanity tips? (Being still at the stage where > he and I are still getting up in the middle of the night, I never > underestimate parental sanity tips :-) Respected friend: I have children's nurses' aide certification, and four years experience in children's hospitals, and have only missed one Pennsic since #5. Some suggestions- Use the diaper service out of Butler- dispoasbles are Very Bad in the sticky humidity which adds so much to the Pennsic ambiance ;-}. Call your tent manufacturer and find out if the material in it is a UV blocker- Years ago, a child had to be hospitalized after lying in the "shade" of a Non-UV blocking tent for four hours. Bring Pedialite. If the baby has any trace of loose stool, start feeding it ASAP. Get him used to the taste starting now. If you can't nurse, start getting the baby used to powdered formula made with distilled water now. Don't use tapwater at Pennsic for baby's food unless you live within a 70-mile radius of Butler on a well-water source. (IE not treated municipal water.) Don't use liquid formula concentrate unless you're bringing a refridgerator and have guaranteed power access. If baby must have liquid formula, get the single ready-use kind- hideously expensive but much safer. Don't let anybody give baby uncooked honey. It may contain live salmonella. This includes more things than you might realize- be careful. One period baby-toting system was a slat-woven pack basket, well padded. Get one now and practice. This _is not_ safe for a child who can't hold his head up yet. Or make a hip-holder out of a strip of soft wool or flannel. Or make a little cart with a shady hooped top. If you use inner tube for the suspension straps it will have somewhat less jarring motion- but be sure the innertube doesn't show. Make up a handout of `What to do and not do around babies' for the others sharing your campsite. Find a babies' sunblock now that doesn't irritate his skin. Bring two bottles minimum, since brands vary so much by region and you don't want to expose him to an unchecked one when he's away from home. Keep one in the car in case the campsite one grows feet. Take infant & children's CPR classes through your Red Cross or equivalent. Your baby won't need it this year, but someone else's might. And when he's into solids he'll be crawling and you'll be too busy. Take naps. If you get sick, he's in trouble too. Make his tunics from children's sleepwear materials. Even at four dollars a yard, the stuff's worth it for any Pennsic-bound child. It does come in decent colors, so call around. Bring _detergent_ to wash them in; soap will destroy the fire-retardency you paid serious bucks for. If he has a known medical problem, find a nearby Pediatrician- the Slippery Rock or Butler hospitals may have a referral service- and get duplicate records sent to the office before you head out. It will make emergency care much, much easier. Memorize a polite way to say `You're infectious and I don't want you near the baby.' Practice until you can say it nose-to-nose with the scariest Megaduke we've got, if necessary. Use it. Was your hands and his face every chance you get. If you nurse, wash before feedings, since the local dust will contain different microbes than he was exposed to at home. But don't get obsessive about it. Lay in an adequate stock of your own prescriptions, with a duplicate supply for the car. Wear comfortable walking shoes. Break them in at home. _Do not_ lay him down in tall grass. Ticks are bad. Decide who you'll let hold, play with, and babysit him now, while you have time to think it through. Just accept that a lot of young adults will talk to your baby and ignore you. It may be hormonal. Don't forget to take good care of yourself, and of other family members. Don't forget to have fun. Yours in service- Honour/Alizaunde, Demoiselle de Bregeuf, C.O.L. This may be reprinted _once_ by any local nonprofit SCA newsletter, provided both my legal and SCA names appear as author. Other camping event/war names may be substituted where appopriate. No other editing is permitted without prior consultation, and a copy must be sent to me at PO Box 56, South Lyndeboro, NH, 03082. All other rights reserved. From: ercil at astrid.UUCP (Ercil C. Howard-Wroth) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Camping with Babies Date: 19 May 94 02:29:13 PST In article <CpwEKJ.DrK at world.std.com> kgandek at world.std.com (Kathryn GandekTighe) writes: >This August we will be taking our 5 month old son to Pennsic. Having >been there as adults, we've got that part of the camping down to habit. >However, going with a baby obviously involved other considerations! I'd >be interested to hear anyone else's handy tips/things that worked for >you. How did you handle the heat? the sun? the cold? In what did your >child sleep? Any parental sanity tips? (Being still at the stage where >he and I are still getting up in the middle of the night, I never >underestimate parental sanity tips :-) > >Thanks! >Catrin o'r Rhyd For >Kathryn Gandek-Tighe >kgandek at world.std.com We have been toting our now 2 yr old around since she was born. My first advice (unless you are nursing of course) is to leave your baby with your parents or other willing relative and take a small break (maybe only a partial week). Also read this past TI as the Chiurgeon General had a word or two for us parents and potentially pregnant people, who go camping. If she is reading Mistress AEflead of Duckford (Mrs Gunwaldt on the net sometimes) knows lots and lots about kids. She runs a superb newsletter called `Thinkwell' and has some supplements on children and the SCA. I'd love to hear her ideas too. But if you are like us you won't the child at home for whatever reasons. Sooooo, Take a porta-crib. It is one of the best investments we made in terms of baby paraphanalia. Take a sling. Don't bother with a stroller, but if you do please disguise it with cloth draping or more elaborate scheming. I am a parent but I hate to see undisguised strollers at events. Remember that you and your husband are a team and if you don't or can't work together as one team, your Pennsic vacation will be difficult for you. Each of you needs time alone and you need time together (if you have a sister or brother who can watch the youngling for an hour or two). This is another reason why you bring the porta-crib. Bring lots of extra diapers. Bring infant tylenol, your thermometer, and infant benedryl. Many chiurgeons do not carry children's medications of any kind. Make sure your first aid kit is child proof either locked or something you can hang from a tent pole. Your baby is 5 mo now, but will be crawling, walking, climbing, exploring, and tasteing very very soon. Practice is perfect and besides other children may be around your camp site. The kind that get into those things are the kind that do not know - this is not their tent-. Prevention is a good thing. t-tunics of different fabric are great for warmth. Onesies are great. I sewed a skirt onto one and added trim in the right areas. My daughter uses it now for one of her dolls. I use the long sleeve baby kimonos as an underdress for the t-tunics. It helped layer her. Baby garb is easy and fun. Bring two or three sets of extra bedding. We found that a porta-crib gets the baby off the ground, but the damp cold can still seep through. I layered and layered first the baby and then the bedding. I bought a kiddy sized sleeping bag and unzipped it. The layers went like this: 1. mattress, mattress quilt, quilted sheet, 2 baby blankets, sleeping bag Place baby on top. (baby is in long johns and blanket jammies w/socks on too) 2. Many blankets. The idea is to insulate from the bottom as well as the top. Be sensitive to the cold and be ready to have the baby sleep with you. A nurse told me that a naked baby could be kept sufficiently warm by being next to her mother's skin. The above arrangement kept our daughter warm during a night when it rained/slushed/snowed and was cooooldddd. She slept through most of the night totally covered and toasty warm. Take sunscreen (the kind for babies and children)! I cannot stand to see baked babies totally red and later crying. Pennsic is wierd. It is hot and cold. It always rains at Pennsic. One thing I discovered our last rainy camping event was the new leak in the tent... right over our daughter's bed... soaked clear through. I always try to be considerate of who I am camping next to since my daughter is a herald in training and has awakened many adult people _not_ her parents at events. She has even screamed so loudly (about not sleeping at midnight) that several constables came to check that we had not abandoned her to an empty tent. Incidently, she slept through Rolling Thunder's drumming/dancing contest at a recent war so the issue is not noise, but you might also consider this issue when deciding where you want to camp. Be ready and be able to break camp and get a motel room if necessary. We did this at the snow event. Read the other Pennsic threads, but dry blankets, bedding, and clothing, and quarters for a laundrumat in the car (for the baby). You may know lots of this already, but I just wanted to assist if I could. From a fellow parent, who remembers sleepless nights and wishes you a good time at Pennsic, Astridhr Selr Leifsdottir E. Howard-Wroth ...uunet!astrid!astridhr Shire of Heatherwyne astrid!astridhr at uunet.UU.NET Kingdom of Caid 70327.1614 at compuserve.com From: kohrn at bach.seattleu.edu (David B. Kohrn) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Babies camping out Date: 26 Aug 1994 09:59:39 -0700 Organization: Seattle University, Seattle, Washington, U.S.A. Traveling and camping with babies is possible, but yes it does require extra preperation. Long before I had kids I noticed that many SCA kids were miserable because they did not have the right clothing for the weather. Many parents skimp on kids' SCA garb which will only be worn a few times before it is outgrown. DON'T. Kids need Wool clothing for warmth, and many more changes of clothing than you. (Watch me jump over that mud puddle. . .) A few other items which we have found invaluable. Thermos--fill it with boiling water in the evening and you will have a source of hot water (or warm if you mix it with coldwater) all night. Good for warming bottles, wet wipes, cleaning faces etc. Toys--SCA (non-offensive) toys which can only be played with while camping (give the kid something to look forward to) In general we find the kids like SCA camping (much more time with mommy, daddy), other kids to play with, once you get there, no car seats, sleep in the same room as mommy and daddy. -Calote From: keaeris at postoffice.adsinc.com () Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Babies at War...info on care?? Date: 27 Apr 1995 19:41:18 GMT Organization: Advanced Data Services BBS - 68 lines - 44 Gigs First M. Lastname (userid at psu.edu) wrote: : Hello out there... : I was just reading a post on someone who wants to go to War while : pregnant. It reminded me that I need some information on caring for a : baby at War. I am almost 9 months pregnant now, and if this baby is on : time (May 26th or so), it should be approximately 3 months old by the : time War rolls around. I am something of a War Virgin (only been there : last year--for the first time--in fact, that's where I got pregnant! Being pregnant with a baby due at any moment, I will have a child the same age. When we took our daugther to Pennsic 22, we we're there 2 weeks and ordered diaper service and took our pail. It worked well and didn't vary our home routine too much. This will not work for you if you intend to be there less than a full week. Call Information and ask for Butler Diaper Service. They are well familiar with the Pennsic Troll Booth. : in my finger...). I am basically worried about infections, sunscreen : and what sort of bedding the baby should have. I have heard two : different views on bedding--off the ground so the dampness won't seep : into the bedding, and on the ground so the baby doesn't fall out of : bed. What do all you experienced mothers say on that??? Our daughter slept in bed with us nd id worked well for us. We built a platform out of pallets and put our bed on it. : Also, if the : water is warm, can I take the baby to the swimming hole and hold it, : while staying in the shallow water? I have read that sunscreen can be : dangerous since babies haven't developed enough pigment in their skin : to handle sunscreen. How much clothing for protection is too much?a Bring things that will keep the baby warn at night. Be prepared to take it off when it gets hot. Try for plainer baby clothes and don't get hyper about not having garb. Anybody who gets fussy about "mundane" baby clothes on the baby is being anal and should be largely ignore-- unless they are willing to make the clothes for you. A new mother has little enough time to be dealing with baby let alone trying to make everything "period". Get something to replace the diaper bag that doesn't look like a pastel baby nightmare. Keep the kid out of the sun and you won't need sunscreen. : I : plan on having some type of "period" stroller--a wooden wagon, : maybe--with a canope. Will that do? If someone could please help me : out, I would be very grateful. Thank You. Anyone can either use my : Email address at CMB162 at PSU.EDU, or post on the rialto and hopefully I : will see it. In Service, Sabirah bint Jala min Saqqara.a I used a sling and carried Amber, when Dady didn't have her. Fursa Hand-seinn From: macdj at onr.com (Dottie Elliott) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Babies at War...info on care?? Date: Mon, 01 May 1995 18:29:51 -0600 I haven't taken a baby to Pennsic (the grandparents just loved taking care of him while we went to Pennsic when he was 1 and 2. However,I have taken my son SCA camping many times in the last 2.5 years. We use a graco portable playpen as a bed (folds up to a package of about 1 ft x 1 ft x ~3.5 ft). Its a safe place for baby for many reasons. I have also used it outside the tent under our pavilon when he needed a safe area to play. We have also taken his swing. A happy baby is worth the imposition of a modern item or two and its a break from holding the baby too! At Pennsic you will need to be prepared for hot and cold weather, wet and dry. It just depends on whim as to what weather will show up. I have put my son in 2 blanket sleepers at times because it was in the low 30's at night and he doesn't keep covers on usually. He was warmer than we were. Ifs it colder than that or he acts cold, we put him in bed with us and he's always toasty (though I don't kept much sleep). As for sun, I wouldn't expose the baby to sun at all. They are easily burned and dehydrated at that age and shouldn't be exposed to the sun. Ask your baby doctor for recommendations. A covered wagon is a good idea as well as light weight clothing that covers the torso, arms and legs and a hat that covers the ears as well are important! I would recommend nursing instead of messing with bottles if you can. Managing formula and bottle sterilization is a lot of trouble. If you do use formula buy distilled water in town for it or use pre-mixed. Newborns cannot tolerate lowlevels of beasties living in the water that older kids and adults don't even notice. If its really hot, give the baby extra water (you can buy bottle water for babies in little glass bottles that are very handy - you just add the nipples) or expect to nurse more often. I don't see why you couldn't take the baby down to the swimhole. You will find, however, that baby gets cold much quicker than you will so you probably won't be able to stay in long. Good Luck! Clarissa From: IVANOR at delphi.com Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Babies at War...info on care?? Date: 2 May 1995 04:32:23 GMT Quoting keaeris from a message in rec.org.sca > Our daughter slept in bed with us and it worked well for us. We built a > platform out of pallets and put our bed on it. Of course this can be dangerous, if either of you sleeps restlessly. >be : dangerous since babies haven't developed enough pigment in their >skin : to handle sunscreen. How much clothing for protection is too No, the problem is that PABA can be dangerous to children, as in toxic. The more pigment in your skin the less you need sunscreen. Get a PABA- free sunscreen designed for babies, and keep it out of the baby's eyes and mouth. > Bring things that will keep the baby warn at night. Be prepared to > take it off when it gets hot. Try for plainer baby clothes and don't >get hyper about not having garb. Anybody who gets fussy about "mundane" > baby clothes on the baby is being anal and should be largely ignore-- Actually, a plain knit undershirt is pretty close to what the BVM is painted knitting for the baby Jesus in period paintings.... Diapers aren't period, but the alternative is no longer acceptable, so go with good sanitation. A bunting for the chilly nighttime is also a period solution, though people will have to ignore the zippers in the modern models. The sling carrier is a good idea, if it is an infant here. Carolyn Boselli Host of Custom Forum 35 SCAdians on Delphi Ive Annor M'Quhairr of Sighty Crag, AoA, Sen. Canton Dragon Forge, EK From: Margaret Griffith <peggieg at u.washington.edu> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Babies at War...info on care?? Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 08:24:45 -0700 Organization: University of Washington On 2 May 1995 IVANOR at delphi.com wrote: > Quoting keaeris from a message in rec.org.sca > > >be : dangerous since babies haven't developed enough pigment in their > >skin : to handle sunscreen. How much clothing for protection is too > > No, the problem is that PABA can be dangerous to children, as in toxic. > The more pigment in your skin the less you need sunscreen. Get a PABA- > free sunscreen designed for babies, and keep it out of the baby's eyes and > mouth. > Please check this information with your child's pediatrician. I have been informed by more than one pediatrician that NO baby under the age of six months should wear ANY kind of sunscreen. You really should keep the child out of the sun and try to keep their temperature moderated at all times. Meg Penrose From: brighid at hern.stonemarche.org Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Babies at War...info on care?? Date: 2 May 95 22:41:33 EST Organization: Hern the Hunter, Stonemarche (NH) In article <3o4ckn$55t at news1.delphi.com>, IVANOR at delphi.com writes: ... > > No, the problem is that PABA can be dangerous to children, as in toxic. > The more pigment in your skin the less you need sunscreen. Get a PABA- > free sunscreen designed for babies, and keep it out of the baby's eyes and > mouth. Some/most pediatricians will say that babies under 6 months of age should not have sunscreen or bug spray on them or their clothes. Many children of this age are teething and so will chew on anything accessible including clothing with bug spray. -- Brighid Wood brighid at hern.stonemarche.org From: Maryanne.Bartlett at f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Maryanne Bartlett) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Babies at War (Long!!!!!!!!) Date: Wed, 03 May 1995 18:57:00 -0800 -=> Quoting keaeris at postoffice.adsinc.com to All <=- ke> First M. Lastname (userid at psu.edu) wrote: ke> : pregnant. It reminded me that I need some information on caring for ke> a : baby at War. I am almost 9 months pregnant now, and if this baby ke> is on : time (May 26th or so), it should be approximately 3 months old <snip> ke> 2 weeks and ordered diaper service and took our pail. It worked well ke> and didn't vary our home routine too much. This will not work for you ke> if you intend to be there less than a full week. <snip> I've been using disposables at tourney for years. The Right Start catalogue has a nifty little device that wraps them so they don't smell and can go out in regular trash. ke> : in my finger...). I am basically worried about infections, Keep baby clean. Take lots of baby wipes and also bathe her/him, every day, twice or thrice if it's hot. Beyond that, with a 3-month-old you have practically nothing to worry about. (Not like a 3-year-old that will eat *anything*!) ke> sunscreen : and what sort of bedding the baby should have. I have ke> heard two : different views on bedding--off the ground so the dampness ke> won't seep : into the bedding, and on the ground so the baby doesn't ke> fall out of : bed. What do all you experienced mothers say on that??? ke> Our daughter slept in bed with us nd id worked well for us. We built ke> a platform out of pallets and put our bed on it. We've tried several different things depending on the age of my youngest at the time (I've six kids, so believe me, I've tried most of the variations possible!) What I like for a *small* baby (under 4 months) is a Moses basket, the kind with a hood. Make a complete lining for it so baby doesn't get scratched by the wicker. The sides keep drafts off baby and the hood can be turned so that the sun won't shine on him/her. I've had babies sleep with me (particularly night nursers) and I don't like it, since all of mine have been more restless when doing this at events. However, when it's cold we usually have a pile of the smaller kids in our bed. As they get older we put them in with the older kids. (I have one teen and a couple just pre-). I also have a folding portacrib, the kind that's just a top rim, legs and a plastic...um...bed-shaped bag (I dunno what else to call it!) I ripped off the plastic and used it for a pattern for a denim version. I also made a ruffle/skirt that goes over the outside and covers the legs. This can be carted around or used in the pavilion. My youngest will still be sleeping in it this summer and he's 16 months old, now. Babies, little ones, will sleep anywhere. If you always carry a baby quilt (buy a solid dark colour, if possible, or make a cover) you can put baby *anywhere* and not have him/her in your lap. ke> : Also, if the ke> : water is warm, can I take the baby to the swimming hole and hold it, ke> : while staying in the shallow water? Babies love to swim, but don't let go! You *can* get tiny-baby-size lifejackets that will hold a baby's head above water, but don't depend on one. The same goes for the little inflateable floating baby seats. Watch kids up to age 3 *every* second they're in the water. This goes for bathtubs, too. I have a cheap plastic dishpan that goes with us to all events. I also have a set of cheap plastic floating toys that fit inside it along with a couple of washed peanut butter buckets and margarine tubs (for pouring). I also pack washclothes, baby soap and towel in this pan. Yes, it's mundane, but if it gets hot, it's a great way to cool baby off, packs better than a regular baby bath and fits babies up to a couple of years*. Just a couple of inches of water and lots of splashing is a great way to deal with a hot, tired and fretful baby, not to mention possible prickly heat or diaper rash problems. This dishpan is still going to be in use this summer, since it's a good way to cool off (and allow water play) for even an older child right in your campsite. I keep it in back of the pavilion near the ice chest and water jug. >I have read that sunscreen can ke> be : dangerous since babies haven't developed enough pigment in their ke> skin : to handle sunscreen. PABA is bad for babies. So are some of the other ingredients. Ask your pediatrician. There *are* a few sunscreens that are safe, but the best screen is opaque clothing. Figure on a bonnet or coif. You can make a bonnet with a rectangle of fabric, about 6"x13". Put a casing across one long side and gather with a ribbon and tie it tight. Put ties on the other two corners. Gathers go to the back. Tie it under the chin. (This fits up to 6 mos., usually. Make 'em larger for later) Babies *never* went capless in period! >How much clothing for protection is too ke> much? Put one more layer on the baby than what *you're* wearing. If you're wearing one tunic (and want to ditch it!) baby should be in a diaper and t-shirt. (Buy the tie-side shirts. They're period!) If you're wearing two tunics and a cloak, baby should probably be in a onesie(the snap-bottom shirts) diaper & booties or socks (first layer) a creeper (the one-piece lightweight things with feet (2nd layer) a gown or blanket sleeper and bonnet (3rd layer) and be wrapped in a shawl. ke> Bring things that will keep the baby warn at night. Be prepared to ke> take it off when it gets hot. The key is "layers". >Try for plainer baby clothes and don't ke> get hyper about not having garb. Anybody who gets fussy about ke> "mundane" baby clothes on the baby is being anal and should be largely ke> ignore-- unless they are willing to make the clothes for you. A new ke> mother has little enough time to be dealing with baby let alone trying ke> to make everything "period". Ack! Buy the knit, solid-colour, drawstring-bottom baby gowns. Except for the fabric and snaps (which medieval mom would have *killed* for!) the da** things *are* period. So are the previously mentioned side-tie shirts! So are bonnets! So are the zip-up pram bags ('cept that they had toggles or ties)! So are booties! (They are probably the most period shoes that *any* of us wear!) Get a nurse in hospital (or older relative) to show you how to swaddle a baby in a recieving blanket and buy/make several *square* ones in solid colours or stripes. Garb for babies is *lots* easier than for adults and the other poster is right. Ignore the A-R types or tick 'em off for me! A period garment that doesn't get used much is a mantle. Take a circle of pretty fabric, as big as you can manage, but at least 6 feet across. Cut a 4" diameter hole in the center and a slit heading off toward the edge. (4" ought to be plenty, but this is the baby's head hole, so check.) I bind the raw edges in double-fold bias tape and put ties at the neck. A swaddled baby can be slid into this and held in the lap or in your arms and the spill of fabric is gorgeous. This garment is sortof like a houppelande with no sleeves. If it bothers you (or baby) to have no sleeves, a less extreme version of this, more like a long t-tunic, also looks really good. T'ain't period (so far as I know) but it looks good. I've also added a hood with a point to one and gotten rave reviews, even from A-R costumers. >Get something to replace the diaper bag ke> that doesn't look like a pastel baby nightmare. Make a small drawstring sack (or six) and hang 'em off your belt. Make 'em in different colours (so you can keep 'em straight) and use one for each category of item, i.e.clean clothes in one, dirty in another, diapers/wipes/lotion in a third (put a ziploc inside this one), booties and accessories in another, etc. ke> Keep the kid out of the sun and you won't need sunscreen. Absolutely! (but you won't be able to, completely, so use clothing to cover up! I wear veils for good reason! They're also great to nurse under without having folks stare.) ke> : I ke> : plan on having some type of "period" stroller--a wooden wagon, ke> : maybe--with a canope. Will that do? Maybe, I'd rather not use one, but if you want to, go ahead. I mostly don't want the bulk to carry on the trip. ke> I used a sling and carried Amber, when Dady didn't have her. I've also used a sling and prefer them. The period version is a large square shawl. Fold it on the diagonal. Put the hypotenuse under your arm with the opposite points hanging down. Tie the acute angles into a knot on the opposite shoulder. Slide baby in under your arm, legs down. Pull the bottom points up between baby's legs. If you wrap your arm around the baby and hold those points in that hand, your other hand is completely free. The other version of this takes help. It's much more like the mundane version of a baby sling. Take your same shawl. Lay it on the ground so one point is at your feet and the bias is pointing directly ahead from you. Take the two side points and pull them into the center of the shawl so that they touch. Flop everything straight. Then fold the two parallel folds that this creates toward each other so that they touch. Um...I'll try a drawing. step 1 step 2 /\ /\ / \ |\/| | | | | | >< | | | | | | | \ / |/\| \/ \/ Lay baby longways along step 2 (along the bias, that is). Now the hard part! Lean over baby and pick her/him up, as though you'll be holding him/her diagonally across your chest. Toss the point at the baby's head-end over your shoulder and the other under the other arm. Have your helper tie the two ends behind your back. You can squirm into and out of this, once tied, but... it's easier with help! More tourney tips: you and baby *must* drink plenty of liquid, especially if you're nursing. Take a nap (or at least lie down) when baby does or you'll be worn out. Bring no-cook or minimal cooking foods or figure on buying stuff at a food merchant. Put up a clothes line and rinse baby clothes ASAP. (Use that ubiquitous dishpan and baby soap!) If somebody offers to hold or mind baby, *let 'em*! Camp with close friends or other new parents who will understand if baby imitates a fire siren at 4 am. --Anja-- Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: More on Smalls at Pennsic. From: pendletonsm at hiram.edu Date: 7 May 95 14:06:13 EST Organization: Hiram College Just adding my thoughts of the care of Smalls at War. Why are you REALLY going to Pennsic? To expose your kids to the Current Middle Ages, or to enjoy them yourself. I have learned the hard way that if I take my two-year-old daughter to events, I will spend the entire time chasing her around trying to prevent catastrophes and getting frustrated because there's no time for me to really pay attention to anything. I do take her once in a while anyway so that she'll become used to the atmosphere, but all Pennsic would mean to me if she were along is entirely too many cars, blades, fires, and other ways a fast-moving toddler could get hurt. I'm using up most of my vacation time for the year to go to Pennsic, and I plan to RELAX. This doesn't mean I don't adore my baby, of course I do, but she is not a relaxing human being at this point. The solution? In my case, it's easy-- that's the "two weeks each summer" that I had put into my ex-husband's visitation schedule when we split up, with the understanding that as Bronwyn gets older the dates will slowly shift so that she can attend more and more of Pennsic as she gets better able to look after herself. Of course, that's not a option with a nursing baby, and they're a lot more portable and prone to stay where you put them than my little whirlwind. In the future, however, if this is your only vacation for the year, it might be worth considering that part of Pennsic would be a TERRIFIC time for little Wulfstan to bond with Grandma and Grandpa, or some such folk. Remember-- a happy, relaxed parent is a patient, flexible parent. Yours in the Service to the Dream, Katrin **"Hic iacet Arturus, Rex Brittani. Non mortuus est. Resurget."** Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: ojid.wbst845 at xerox.com (Orilee Ireland-Delfs) Subject: Re: More on Smalls at Pennsic. Organization: Xerox Corporation, Webster NY Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 16:18:46 GMT I'd like to second Katrin's comments - my oldest daughter did not attend Pennsic until she was 6 years old - able to dress and use the privy herself, feed herself, and make her wishes known. Plus, we could explain to her why she could or could not do certain things. (Her first war was great - the King of Drachenwald took her to the family swimming hole, she got to climb the towers of the East Kingdom gate, and she generally had a great time - and spent lots of her own money shopping). She is alreaday saving her allowance and planning on what to wear for this year's War. Our youngest will probably follow in her sister's footsteps at six as well (another 3 years). Camp Grandma is a wonderful place to spend a week plus during the summer! Orianna From: Maryanne.Bartlett at f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Maryanne Bartlett) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Babies at War...info on care?? Date: Sat, 13 May 1995 12:55:00 -0800 -=> Quoting IVANOR to All <=- > Our daughter slept in bed with us and it worked well for us. We built a > platform out of pallets and put our bed on it. IV> Of course this can be dangerous, if either of you sleeps restlessly. Oh, puff! A mom with a tiny baby tends to naturally curl up around the baby, as though baby was still on the inside. (Hey, she's slept that way for at least 4 months by that point!) As babies get older, they squeak if you roll over on them. I know. I've six kids. All of them have slept with me often at tourneys. All of them have gotten rolled onto and *believe*me* you roll right back off! They don't get hurt. Something that is *more* likely to be dangerous to baby than rolling over on it, is that most of us tend to use fluffy blankets or quilts. If baby goes face down in the quilt and can't roll...well...heard of SIDS? They do that in their own beds, too. IV> Actually, a plain knit undershirt is pretty close to what the BVM is IV> painted knitting for the baby Jesus in period paintings.... Have you a specific reference on this one? I can't find one, but this is something I'd *love* to have, even just a hint! IV> Diapers aren't period, <plain language alert> Uh, did you realize that *disposables* are pre-historic? Soft skins stuffed with powdered herbivore dung or other cellulose compounds have been documented in the late stone age. Do you assume that people who had any choice would let them poop on the floor? Yes, lots of kids went naked, or mostly so, in the summer, but they can't in winter. Most of them were tightly swaddled, too. Believe me, most moms are *not* dumb enough to leave a soggy, poopy baby in an equally, soggy, poopy swaddle, or at least, not more than once. Think this one through. (Can you say, "diaper rash, sore bottom, *crabby* baby"?) It's another one of the fallacies that we accept without thinking over. There are a number of commentaries, particularly in late period, that talk about "clouts". If you want, I'll see if I can find the references. >A bunting for the chilly nighttime is also a period IV> solution, though people will have to ignore the zippers in the modern IV> models. They can be made with ties. In fact, the one I wore as a baby was a tiny hooded jacket that tied under the chin and a...well...I don't know what to call it but a sleeping bag, no zipper! Recently, I found a hooded bunting in a thrift store with a busted zipper. I pulled it out, bound the raw edge and added ties. I want to point out to others reading this that Ivanor/Carolyn and I are talking about "baby bags" not the kind with separate legs! IV> The sling carrier is a good idea, if it is an infant here. I think that when this thread started, we were discussing a 2-3 month old baby. I agree with you on the sling, though a baby can be carried in a shawl or in any of the over-the-shoulder cloaks. --Anja-- From: powers at cis.ohio-state.edu (william thomas powers) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Babies at War...info on care?? Date: 14 May 1995 13:23:29 -0400 Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science > IV> Actually, a plain knit undershirt is pretty close to what the BVM is > IV> painted knitting for the baby Jesus in period paintings.... > > Have you a specific reference on this one? I can't find one, but >this is something I'd *love* to have, even just a hint! A good history of knitting should include a couple of BVM knitting paintings. However skimming my art books turned up a interesting set of children's clothes: Giovanni Bellini "Madonna and Child" (aka "The Greek Madonna") currently in the Brera, Milan, has OBS in what looks like a T-shirt with a short side slit ot the bottom hem. 1565 Jacopo Bellini, "Madonna and Child" 1395, T-Tunic, round neck with deep neck placket, decorated with wide gold embroidry; also wearing a *white* belt. White shirt shows at the neck. Also in the Brera Bergognone, "Madonna and Child, St. Catherine and the blessed Stefano Maconi", Brera, 1490, simple golden yellow shirt/tunic?, cloth belt "Holy Family at Work" Hours of Catherine of Cleves, long sleeved long tunic, Note: period baby walker! (otherwise; the paintings seem to tend toward naked babies being dandled on silk brocades or velvets---sure indication of pervasive insanity *or* a steadfast belief in miracles!) wilelm the parent, also a smith From: James Duncan Logan <hammer at startext.net> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: babies and smalls at events Date: 1 May 1996 17:01:30 GMT Organization: World Wide Service & Equipment Co. Inc. Greetings from Jane Sitton-Logan (not James Duncan): Advice to the expectant parents -- don't forget headgear, especially straw hats. And breastfeeding is the easiest way to feed infants, not to mention most healthy. You don't have to worry about mixing formula (fresh water), keeping it from spoiling, or how to heat it over a camp fire. Plus, you save $$, which can be used for that new garb.... If you are not convinced about breastfeeding, please contact your local La Leche League so they can re-educate you. Keep toddler girls' skirts short enough that they don't trip when they walk. A LARGE basket makes a nice infant bed. LOTS of baby wipes. A spray bottle with ice inside makes a wonderful mister for hot younguns. And grownups, for that matter. If you're at an event where there is electricity, consider bringing a small fan if the weather is hot. It will help kids sleep, especially since it creates "white noise". Get toddlers their own folding chairs that they can carry around. It will keep them from sitting in other peoples' chairs and getting scolded. My daughter loves her SCA "purse", a small basket she can carry her treasures and snacks in. Anyone have any more tips? --Madeleine de Lindsay, mother of 4 yr old and 9 week old mka Jane Sitton-Logan From: ercil at astrid.upland.ca.us (Ercil C. Howard-Wroth) Subject: Re: babies and smalls at events Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Date: 3 May 96 01:07:43 PST James Duncan Logan (hammer at startext.net) wrote: : Greetings from Jane Sitton-Logan (not James Duncan): : Advice to the expectant parents -- don't forget headgear, especially : straw hats. : : And breastfeeding is the easiest way to feed infants, not to mention most : healthy. You don't have to worry about mixing formula (fresh water), : keeping it from spoiling, or how to heat it over a camp fire. Plus, you : save $$, which can be used for that new garb.... If you are not : convinced about breastfeeding, please contact your local La Leche League : so they can re-educate you. ditto, nursing is period too (I know - I documented it as a period practice... heh heh and almost entered mother's milk as a .. period food in a culinary competition... ;) Garb: a tabard w/ ties on sides or tying in back works very well and is cool in very hot / humid climates. Do pin tucks in skirts/dresses of young girls so they can let out hems and you don't have to make tons of garb. a naked baby was period (but don't let them run around a tourney field that way. Only babes in arms - good if it is an unbearable hot day. porta-cribs are great as they can contain slightly mobile children safely. Cover with sheets or what not to keep them from being visually obtrusive. bring toys, food, drink, sippy cups, And I ALWAYS bring a potty. PortaPrivies are awful for kids! This way they can stay where I can see them. The germs they have are the ones they bring. No rush runs to the potties. I bring a spray bottle of lysol and empty the chamberpot myself. Bring the other parent and take turns!!! I have lots of ideas - you can email me privately if you want more. Astridhr From: moondrgn at bga.com (Chris and Elisabeth Zakes) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: About to be new parents Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 04:22:31 GMT XDHQ27A at prodigy.com (Richard Davis) wrote: >I was interested in knowing if anyone has some useful knowledge or advice >to new parents on how to survive in the sca with a brand new baby. Any >and all help would be greatly appreciated. >Sean O'Fogarty Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. (3 times) 1. Invest in a portable crib, the sort that packs down to a 1'x1'x3' space. They are invaluable as playpens during the day, don't take up too much space in the tent/crash space at night, and can be packed relatively easily. 2. Invest in a good backpack/carrier. We used one that was basically a pouch with long straps, and could be used as a front, back, or side pack. This is great for carrying/cuddling the baby and leaving your hands free. I've even worn it while serving feasts. 3. Realize that babies don't just take up time, they take up space. Counting carseat, portable crib, diaper bag, extra diapers, clothes, etc., your baby will need nearly as much transport space as an adult. You may need a bigger car (and tent). 4. Remember your priorities. The baby comes before fighting or court or A&S projects or whatever. Unless you hold the bardic circle outside your own tent, one of you will have to stay with Junior if the other one wants to go out and party. On the other hand, if you have the bardic circle by your tent, the noise will probably keep her awake (and fussy). 5. You *can* leave the little tyke with Grandma, but don't be surprised if he shows no interest in the SCA when bigger. Our three were all going to events within a few weeks of birth, and love it. 6. Some folks use an "SCA babysitter", someone who helps with the kid in exchange for transportation and site/feast fees. I've never tried it, so I can't comment, but it sounds like a good idea. 7. Pack *lots* of extra clothes. Kids & dirt are like magnets & iron. 8. If there are other families in your group, see about networking and trading kid-juggling for a while. On the plus side, you've got extra eyes and hands if you get overwhelmed. On the minus side, if your ideas on discipline and behaviour don't match you're going to have friction. 9. If at all possible, plan ahead with your spouse, and be willing to make sacrifices. "Well, I really want to do X. If you can watch Small then, I'll watch her during court so you can go herald." 10. Pack kid-food for lunch and feast. The average 2-year old probably won't be interested in eels seethed in wine, no matter *how* period it is. Especially if feast is after court and court is running late. . . Use things that don't require refrigeration whenever feasible, since even the best ice chest isn't perfect. 11. Teach your kids basic SCA rules: Don't touch other people's stuff without asking, knives and fires are dangerous, etc. (We taught our kids "HOLD" while crossing the street.) Take the time to show them dangerous situations and explain why they are dangerous. For example, The site has a river on one boundary. Make time to take the kid(s) down and let them see it and maybe throw a few rocks in. Explain that you can't go swimming now because it's too cold, or you don't have your suits, or swimming time is later when everybody can go. Make sure they understand that Daddy or Mother has to come with, to go look at the river again. 12. Set reasonable boundaries for the bigger kids. "Don't go past this tree, and this tent, and don't cross that road. Otherwise, go play." Watch toddlers carefully--they're old enough to find trouble, but not old enough to avoid it. Remember that portable crib/playpen? It's still useful. 12. Try to have SCA-appropriate toys, but don't be fanatical about it. Be *very* careful about toy swords; most of them can still hurt if used with force. Our kids have a rule of "only hit people who are wearing armor", and we give them the opportunity to take a few shots at Mother or Daddy when they are in armor. 13. It's never too early to start teaching courtesy. It's much easier to teach "please" and "thank you" when they are learning to talk, than to suddenly spring it on them at age 7. DISCLAIMER: this is based mostly on Ansteorran experiences, where we generally camp in "primitive" sites (bare ground, maybe trees, probably fire ants, flush toilets or showers are a luxury). Your kingdom's customs and conditions may vary. -Tivar Moondragon C and E Zakes Tivar Moondragon (Patience and Persistence) and Aethelyan of Moondragon (Decadence is its own reward) moondrgn at bga.com From: dickeney at access1.digex.net (Dick Eney) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: tiny Children in the SCA Date: 16 Jul 1996 22:18:26 -0400 Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA Krista Kathryn Long-Shroyer <94002 at ef.gc.maricopa.EDU> wrote: >Where can I find period sources for childrens products that look or are >medieval? My son is 2, and I would love to get re-involved, but i think >that strollers, sippee cups, plastic toys and other standard required >items for young children are very gauche. <rip> sippers: I'm sure I've seen them done up in silver plate for the doting grandmother to buy - expensive but oh so impressive. wooden toys: try new-agey stores, educational sources (they tend to go for the 'pure unfinished wood' type of toy when they aren't plastic) - Creative Playthings used to have wooden rattles. Or get to know someone who does woodworking. At 2+, rattles should be a good beginning. Pulltoys can be of knights on horseback. A fancy cloth covering for the stroller will make it into a (tiny) gilt carriage or gypsy- or hay-wagon. Have fun with it! -- Tamar the Gypsy From: Morgoth <morgoth at nome.net> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: tiny Children in the SCA Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 00:32:15 -0700 Instead of sippers, maybe try a converted wine skin. It has the right spout, but maybe modified for use by small ones.. Wagons, maybe make a small period wagon (if you have someone who can do this). Or maybe a small chariot (with back panels to keep the kid in, maybe some form of straps to... Ever see the old movies when the prisoners are being lead into the colloseum? That idea maybe? I'm sure you can do some selective authentic (the ball bearing/axle and such are modern, but make it look period). Carrying small children (babies), instead of the carrying thing that looks like a backpage. Instead get a tartan blanket, put the kid under your coat and tie the blanket under the kids legs, and around your sholders/upper chest. Its hard to explain, but its like a papoose, but with out the board. Or maybe a papoose would look more authentic, I'm sure europe and other places had compreable items. Here in Alaska, many of the eskimo woman carry their kids under their parki (sort of like a parka, with out the inner layer for warmth, they wear parki's almost everywhere, especially when berry picking). Morgoth Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: orilee ireland-delfs <orilee_j_ireland-delfs at wb.xerox.com> Subject: Re: Children in the SCA Organization: Xerox Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 17:34:35 GMT You can also find the silver baby cups that come with plastic lids - while the plastic lid isn't terribly period, it looks much better than the brighlty colored plastic cups with lids. You could even have your device engraived on the cup! Cloth dolls dressed in garb (make it match what the child is wearing!); even the modern dolls dressed in garb are more interesting to play with. We have a whole set of wooden characters - King Queen Prince Knight Herald, etc. that my daughters take to play with. (These we get every year at the Pennsic War from Claus the toymaker - it's a regular shopping stop for my daughters). For older kids, pouches with colored stones to play with. Period games (fox & geese, backgammon, etc.) Mistress Orianna Fridrikskona mother of Birgitta and Ingridr AEthelmearc, East Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: sequel to: medieval maternity clothes. From: una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honour Horne-Jaruk) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 11:37:44 EST Russell Gilman-Hunt <rgh at continue.uoregon.edu> writes: > Ok, so we're 12 c. Irish. What would be appropriate wear for say, an, > 18 day old girl? how about a 1 year old girl? Just linen and wool > tunic-type things, or something specific? What book would you use to > document this? I mean, we may just be doing diapers and tunics; but > we'd like to be able to say "this is what she should be wearing." > > Conchobhar of Kamrun. Respected friend: At 18 days, swaddling clothes or mama's clothes (depending on how "citified" her parents are or are not). In cities or with people heavily influenced by Europe, swaddling clothes held on the diapers; In rural areas and among the very poor, baby was wrapped in a fold of Mama's (or Grandma's, at haying time) cloak or veil, and when she got "that look" on her face, she'd be held away from her caretaker's body until whatever mess it was hit the ground. Unlikely as it seems, it worked- and still works for large swathes of rural Africa, Asia, Appalachia and Eastern Europe. For the first month of life, fake swaddling is actually a good idea for most babies, as they still sleep better if their limbs can't flail. Sew criss-cross strips on the front of a sleeveless bag- sleeper, and use lacing up the back to make it snug. At one year, for city/rich, she would still be in swaddling clothes most of the time; if already "toilet trained" (nothing like our version at all) and _very_ rich, she'd be wearing simplified versions of mama's clothes with a plain cap or hood in bad weather and bare head in good (unless she was sickly, or somehow already betrothed.) For rural/poor, she'd be naked in warm weather and under blankets or Mama's cloak in bad - same reason as before. It's very hard for us to understand the effect of difficult, expensive, very time-consuming laundry work on people's child-rearing options. If it takes a day and a week's wages in soap to wash a week's worth of diapers (at modern rate of use), people are going to figure out some way not to do that. Odd, perhaps; but true. Alizaunde, Demoiselle de Bregeuf Una Wicca (That Pict) (Friend) Honour Horne-Jaruk, R.S.F. From: manth at ozemail.com.au (Aramanth Dawe) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Hauling infants around an event Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 21:08:45 GMT Organization: OzEmail Ltd - Australia Joe Hayes <jhayes at compuserve.com> wrote: >My lady just attended her first event along with our 14 month old son. We soon realized that not having the >stroller was going to be a problem (ie, carrying him around, chasing after him, putting him down for naps, >etc). I would appreciate feedback on how others cope with toddlers at events. >Thanks, >Ulrich von Landstuhl I have 2 toddler daughters (28 mo and 13 mo). One thing that helps with the 'chasing around' is to use sets of reins. These are most definately period! I have a leather set that simply buckles on over their clothing. By holding on to the leash they cannot get away from me, run onto a listfield without warning or be carted off by a stranger! It also makes it less likely that they will annoy those not used to kids by wiping sticky fingers on the $400 silk gown of the 'pretty lady' nearby! I do also bring along my stroller, together with a large plain cover (a lightweight cloak is good) which I park in an unobtrusive place and then cover. If a nap is needed (mostly the 13 mo one these days) she can be popped into it without too much fuss, with the cover pulled back for light and air. Anyone who makes an objection to such arrangements (so far there have been none, even at a coronet investiture) is welcome to take care of them for me! Aramanth -- From the Hallowed Portals of House le Mowbus. Where someone was perceptive enough to name daughters for Goddesses of War, and silly enough to be surprised when they lived up to it! manth at ozemail.com.au Aramanth Dawe, Adelaide, Australia From: idavis at ix.netcom.com(Irene Davis) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Hauling infants around an event Date: 18 May 1997 18:13:07 GMT >My lady just attended her first event along with our 14 month old son. >We soon realized that not having the stroller was going to be a problem (ie, >carrying him around, chasing after him, putting him down for naps, >etc). I would appreciate feedback on how others cope with toddlers at events. > >Ulrich von Landstuhl Greetings Ulrich! When my kids were little they spent a LOT of time in a baby carrier. When they were tiny I used a traditional cloth sling, like the traditional carriers that you see in most third world nations. As they got bigger we eventually purchased an aluminum framed baby backpack. It doesn't look very period, but