sheetwalls-msg - 4/2/07
Pros and cons of using sheetwalls to separate encampments at SCA events.
NOTE: See also the files: Sheetwalls-art, camp-security-msg, cmp-courteses-art, SCA-camping-lnks, firepits-msg, Care-o-Prvies-art, camp-showers-msg.
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Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 07:05:17 -0400
From: Cynthia Virtue <cvirtue at thibault.org>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Making sheet walls for Pennsic
Gwen Morse wrote:
> (woken out of a sound sleep when she realized she accounted for
> 'everything' in her two-person camp _except_ sheet walls)
Keep in mind that you don't necessarily *need* sheet walls, especially
for a smaller camp. I'm more a fan of deliniating the edges with ribbon
or half-walls -- friendlier, easier to put up, less engineering overall.
cv
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 22:31:52 -0400
From: Cynthia Virtue <cvirtue at thibault.org>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Making sheet walls for Pennsic
Chris Zakes wrote:
> But then, this is a clear case of InterKingdom Anthropology. I'd been
> in the SCA for years before I ever saw a sheet wall or, for that
> matter, a camp with sharply defined boundaries. In Ansteorra, such
> things are considered unnecessary.
I'm fairly easygoing, but in a big camping area, I like to have some
boundaries, just so friends (and the clueless) know where the front gate
is, or where they shouldn't just blithely step through on the way to
somewhere else.
I don't like above-waist-height walls around most of a camp in the same
way that a 6' high fence around one's front yard is rather unfriendly.
cv
From: herveus at radix.net (Michael Houghton)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Making sheet walls for Pennsic
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 12:03:03 -0000
Gwen Morse <goldmoon at geocities.com> wrote:
>>Keep in mind that you don't necessarily *need* sheet walls, especially
>>for a smaller camp. I'm more a fan of deliniating the edges with ribbon
>>or half-walls -- friendlier, easier to put up, less engineering overall.
>
>You don't? I thought you sorta had to...for privacy reasons (like,
>your neighbors don't _want_ to be able to see into your camp)?
Nope. There is (or has been in the past) a requirement to clearly delineate
the boundaries between camps, but that can be done with a low fence.
A simple fence that does not obstruct vision nor intercourse can make being
neighborly easier. A wall makes it easier to be asocial.
yours,
Herveus
--
Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus at radix.net | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
| http://www.radix.net/~herveus/
From: Lord Hanse Drachensohn <hanse at shieldcam.com>
Subject: Re: Making sheet walls for Pennsic
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 06:49:46 -0400
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
wood poles are the most common, unless you're camping in the trees.
2x2's are a good size for the poles, cut to desired height. (with enough
extra to put in a hole.)to keep the top from sagging, you may want to put
a few grommets along the top of your sheet wall, then run rope through all
the grommets. slits are a good idea especially if you camp up on the field
because of the wind.
Hanse
From: Arval <arval at mittle.users.panix.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Do sheet walls still make Westerners boggle?
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 21:31:50 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
The first times I escorted west-coast Society folk around Pennsic, one
of the things that blew their minds was the boundaries around camps.
I didn't really understand why until I went to West-An Tir war about
10 years ago: Tents were plopped down any old way, without any
boundaries, roads, or any organization at all that I could see.
People routinely walked directly through the middle of other people's
campsites, and were astonished when I commented on that behavior.
Does that difference still exist?
===========================================================================
Arval arval at mittle.users.panix.com
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 20:04:41 -0400
From: Cynthia Virtue <cvirtue at thibault.org>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Do sheet walls still make Westerners boggle?
Arval wrote:
> Tents were plopped down any old way, without any
> boundaries, roads, or any organization at all that I could see.
> People routinely walked directly through the middle of other people's
> campsites, and were astonished when I commented on that behavior.
>
> Does that difference still exist?
I think it varies a lot by event and the location. Some places, it's
definitely cheek-by-jowl camping (ok, *was* -- I was in the West for 7
years but have been back in the East for 5 now.) By which I mean 'more
crowded than most places at Pennsic.'
If there's a reasonable amount of space, then folks behave more sanely.
Two big differences to keep in mind, though:
1: from March-October, nearly every event is a camping event. Nearly
every event in the Central West (middle third of California) is a
Kingdom-level event. Nearly everyone who is active attends, and there
are often more than one of these per month.
2. The ideal Western camping layout is a really large central rectangle,
around which is one layer deep of household or group camping. Frontage
is usually a large sunshade/awning, and the group goes back in a fairly
narrow rectangle from there.
When there's so many people that the ideal ends up being double-parked,
then you get the apparent randomness you describe.
cv
From: Heather Rose Jones <heather.jones at earthlink.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Making sheet walls for Pennsic
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 01:51:50 GMT
law wrote:
> Cynthia Virtue wrote:
>> I'm fairly easygoing, but in a big camping area, I like to have some
>> boundaries, just so friends (and the clueless) know where the front
>> gate is, or where they shouldn't just blithely step through on the way
>> to somewhere else.
>
> This has probably been the hardest thing for me to accept in "SCA-style
> Camping" versus "The way I learned camping." In "real world" camping,
> it is considered rude to walk through someone else's campsite just to
> get to the other side ... much like just walking through someone's front
> door and out the back because it's the fastest way to the next block. If
> absolutely necessary, a polite "excuse me" is expected and the traveler
> is also expected to be as unobtrusive as possible. Since my first SCA
> Camping experience, it seems to be quite common to just walk through the
> middle of an encampment -- making as much noise (especially in the wee
> hours) as possible.
The practical problem is that it isn't always easy to
distinguish between "a path through the middle of an
encampment" and "a path between and not entering
encampments". I suspect that sometimes this is a major
motivation behind camp walls -- one that would be as well
served by lines on the ground as by tall sheets.
(Another practical problem is that if there are no "public
footpaths" left _between_ encampments, then they will
naturally tend to evolve _through_ encampments. There's
something to be said for good old common law traditions.)
Tangwystyl
From: "Drew Nicholson" <anicholson16 at comcast.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Making sheet walls for Pennsic
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 22:20:04 -0500
"Heather Rose Jones" <heather.jones at earthlink.net> wrote:
> The practical problem is that it isn't always easy to
> distinguish between "a path through the middle of an
> encampment" and "a path between and not entering
> encampments". I suspect that sometimes this is a major
> motivation behind camp walls -- one that would be as well
> served by lines on the ground as by tall sheets.
Except in the middle of the night, especially when you're hammered. I've
yet to be so inebriated that I can't keep myself from walking through a
sheet wall; I've easily been distracted enough by my son at times to miss
lines on the ground.
Purple
From: herveus at radix.net (Michael Houghton)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Making sheet walls for Pennsic
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:32:11 -0000
Gwen Morse <goldmoon at geocities.com> wrote:
>I've been to three Pennsics, then, I missed the last four. I vividly
>remember having sheet walls being explained as exceptionally
>'necessary' for social comfort during my first pennsic. No one really
>said 'why', other than it that it was to make other people happy. I
>was so much in awe of everything my first Pennsic, I didn't really
>question any pronouncements handed down.
My experience suggests the contrary. Clan Cambion has never found it necessary
to even consider walls. We do put up a low fence that comes up about waist
high, or a bit lower. It draws a line so you can see where the camp runs,
but does not impede conversation, even when you are seated.
When we have our fire-pit/conversation area up by the road, it is sociable
to have the low wall, because passers-by can stop to chat without having to
come into the camp. It also permits ready observation of the passers-by,
to whatever end...
A sheet wall would isolate the inside from the outside -- not very sociable.
Herveus
--
Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus at radix.net | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
| http://www.radix.net/~herveus/
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 08:15:53 -0400
From: Cynthia Virtue <cvirtue at thibault.org>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Making sheet walls for Pennsic
John Husvar wrote:
> Really, it probably is. Some folks seem to like to help the sheetmakers
> stay in business. It does little harm, I suppose, and the decorations on
> some are entertaining.
<fabric geeking> Note for the new: actual bedsheets are not a good
fabric for "sheetwalls." They are easy to rip, sag when wet, etc. If
you want a sheetwall/windwall that will last a few seasons, use a
heavier cloth. </geeking>
cv
From: Chris Zakes <moondrgn at earthlink.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Do sheet walls still make Westerners boggle?
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 01:19:33 GMT
On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 21:57:53 +0000 (UTC), an orbital mind-control
laser caused Arval <arval at mittle.users.panix.com> to write:
>>>The style of camping that I described as typical in the East --
>>>well-defined boundaries around camps and reasonably well-defined
>>>walkways -- is found at events other than Pennsic, even very small
>>>ones, or at least was back in the days when I was attending a lot of
>>>events. And it pre-dates formal land allocation at Pennsic.
>
>jk replied:
>
>> But that wasn't always so in the east OR at PENNSIC.
>
>It was the norm as early as Pennsic X, at least in the more central
>parts of the event. Are you thinking earlier than that?
>
>Arval
<the end>