cld-weath-cmp-msg - 8/17/10 Suggestions for cold weather camping at SCA events. NOTE: See also the files: camp-ovens-msg, firepits-msg, camp-kitchens-msg, lamps-msg, lighting-msg, p-privies-msg, beds-msg, lamps-msg, fur-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 10:27:53 -0600 From: Joan Nicholson Subject: Re: SC -Sleeping WARM! I've been camping for a lot of years and have found the most indispensable covers for cold weather are fake furs. Get a couple of good sized pieces and layer one beneath your bottom sheets/covers and one over. Make certain that the furry side is toward your body. This traps and holds warmed air next to you and you stay incredibly comfortable. Granted fur is not for everyone's persona, but if you make a really sumptuous Renaissance coverlet, who's to know that it's fur-lined? 8^) Prydwen From: jjordan_12 at my-deja.com Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Cold Weather Camping Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 19:05:55 GMT A lot of nice suggestions on your page [the Florilegium] (and the rest of the site continues to be an extremely useful reference and good reading). One suggestion I didn't see is one that worked well for me during my military time. A chamberpot. For men, at least, it was possible to urinate without leaving the warmth of the bed. In the morning the contents (and a rinse) went into the latrine (and *not* into a dumpster). I leave it as a practical exercise for the female student to come up with a good way to do this. :> Jester of Anglesey From: maeryk at rcn.com Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Cold Weather Camping Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 01:50:21 GMT On Fri, 22 Sep 2000 19:05:55 GMT, jjordan_12 at my-deja.com wrote: >A lot of nice suggestions on your page (and the rest of the site >continues to be an extremely useful reference and good reading). One >suggestion I didn't see is one that worked well for me during my >military time. A chamberpot. For men, at least, it was possible to >urinate without leaving the warmth of the bed. In the morning the >contents (and a rinse) went into the latrine (and *not* into a >dumpster). I leave it as a practical exercise for the female student >to come up with a good way to do this. :> >Jester of Anglesey Surprisingly enough, Harley riders *have* done this. You can find an interesting device, shaped something like a funnel and something like an athletic cup that is for that very purpose. While the term "old lady" used in the advertising usually makes me cringe, it *does* seem a bit of a nifty invention. Maeryk From: owly at hem.utfors.se Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Cold Weather Camping Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 17:07:03 GMT Organization: Utfors AB That reminds me I saw a fine but slightly surprising example of Swedish design at the apothacaries the other day. It's a small chamberpot that a woman can use standing up. Not only that there are these pads you put in it that sucks up the liquid and turns it into a kind of gel so that it supposed to make it easier to throw away. It was like a big, low oval mug with a lid, all in blue frosted plastic. Anna de Byxe in Sweden ;-) From: Lissa McCollum Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Cold Weather Camping Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:36:38 -0700 Organization: Forest Moon Creations Samuel Walters wrote: > I was reading Mother Earth News magazine the other day and saw an ad for the > "Whizzie" It said "Ladies, stand up and whizz like a man. Cleanly, easily, > privately. Use a Whizzie!" > > After I could sit up straight again I thought about it and it's not a bad > idea. Apparently they are cheap too. > > Rhys Goch > MKA Sam Walters > www.brightok.net/~agincrt Try the device available on http://www.restrooms.org/standing.html . I know someone who gives it good reviews. Gwen From: erilarloFRY at SPAMwin.bright.net (erilar) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Cold Weather Camping Organization: Medieval Academy, SCA Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 17:20:39 -0500 Lissa McCollum wrote: > Try the device available on http://www.restrooms.org/standing.html . > I know someone who gives it good reviews. My mother bought a funny-shaped plastic thingy so she didn't need to leave the tent in the middle of the night when we camped. It needed something to sit in, though. A 5-quart ice cream pail is an easier target and you can put a lid on it until you can empty it. Mary Loomer Oliver (aka erilar) From: myrindyl at aol.com (Michelle Picou) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Date: 27 Sep 2000 04:24:45 GMT Subject: Re: Cold Weather Camping At the Wal-Mart in my area (southeast Texas), and at local hunting/outdoor stores, you can purchase a "port-a-potty" that is basically a 5-gallon bucket with a toilet seat attached. You just line the bucket with a garbage bag and go! I know several ladies who say they have gotten good results by putting a few cups of kitty litter in the bottom of the garbage bag - evidently this helps both with any odors and with disguising the sound of a lady 'watering the flowers' in her pavilion at night! Lady Birgitta Kingdom of Ansteorra Barony Bordermarch From: Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Cold Weather Camping Date: 27 Sep 2000 17:51:57 GMT Organization: University of California at Berkeley erilar wrote: : My mother bought a funny-shaped plastic thingy so she didn't need to leave : the tent in the middle of the night when we camped. It needed something to : sit in, though. Doesn't sound like the kind I'm familiar with, which is a device aimed at backpackers and campers who may be in circumstances where "dropping 'em and squatting" is undesirable. : A 5-quart ice cream pail is an easier target and you can : put a lid on it until you can empty it. I have heard tell, from those who have tried it, that a Mason jar (complete with sealing lid) is of an extremely convenient size and volume for those times when you've gotta go and you don't want to go outside. (The aesthetics of an authentic reproduction medieval chamber pot are ... um ... attractive, but on the other hand, I'm not sure it's the sort of thing I'd want to leave lying around visible in camp just to show I'm using an authentic one!) Tangwystyl ********************************************************* Heather Rose Jones hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu ********************************************************** Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:05:46 +0200 (MET DST) From: Par Leijonhufvud Subject: Re: SC - Way OT: Need advice to prevent freezing On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, Isha ArrowHawk wrote: > The majority of the event is going to be outdoors. I will be helping with > Harper duties, and I have no cloak to keep my old bones warm. I'll toss on > old long johns under my garb, but I will still be cold. *shivers* Another hint. Warm a rock or few until they reach the "hot potato" stage (i.e. you can hold them, but not for more than a second or so). Wrap in some fabric and keep close to your body. According to reports ladies like to hold them tucked up under the bust[1]. If juggling hot stones sounds dangerous[2] you can go past a backpacking supply store and purchase a few handwarmers and use them instead. On winter trips when the cold gets severe I like to keep one in each front pocket on my pants. /UlfR [1] Since there are a Swedish mans name "Sten" and stone in Swedish is "sten" this can give rise to more or less obvious jokes, ranging from him being the ladies favourite. [2] It isn't, we aren't talking red hot or anything like that. I have slept many nights with a few down by my feet, a couple behind my back and one or two in front of my chest. No burns, and sound sleep. - -- Par Leijonhufvud parlei at algonet.se Allt som inte dˆdar h‰rdar Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 10:28:54 -0400 From: "Bethany Public Library" Subject: Re: SC - Way OT: Need advice to prevent freezing Here's some of my favorite ways to keep warm, esp. at night at events (some of which are even "historical"). A) Soapstone slab (or try a pizza stone (which frequently gets tossed when it's broken. Recycle it!) or a couple of bricks). It gets warmed next to the fire, then wrapped in flannel. Put it in your pockets or toss it into your bed. If you're there cooking, you could always warm your sheets or blankets with a few hot coals in a covered pot, waved between the cover before you retire. Be sure to put them outside the tent and back into the fire pit and tend to the fire if no one else is, before going to sleep, though. B) Hot water bottle. Either get a real one, or if you're afraid that you'll instantly look like a crone to the check-out girl, make one out of a 2 liter (or smaller) bottle. Fill with warm tap water, cap tightly, toss into your bed or hold next to your body. A more historical version would to use a tightly-sealing crockery or stone bottle, but my theory is that the water is heavy enough....... I do this all the time for my kids at events, throwing a used 16 oz. bottle, filled with hot water from the restroom sink, into their sleeping bags before they bed down for the night. The heat makes them sleepy. C) My mother, who grew up in poor cockney London, used to take freshly hard-boiled eggs in her pockets to school. They hold their heat for a long time, and have the added benefit of being edible for lunch, by which time they've cooled. The same theory was used by my PA Deutsch dad, in the wild country of Litutz, PA, who used baked potatoes instead.... D) You can buy a really expensive "au natural" hot pad which is made of corn, beans, rice, or other legumes, but it's easy to make your own. Just make a small sack and fill with your choice of the above items. The heating trick: empty them into a pot and place over the fire until very warm, or microwave for a minute or two to heat (i've been known to use a zip-lock baggie though you'll have to really watch it). Then pour the beans or rice or whatever back into the sack, tie it shut, and tuck it into your bodice. I did this for a breast-cancer patient at one event, since I lived close nearby, and he began to feel much better. It will last longer if wrapped in a kitchen or hand towell. The legumes are useless for food purposes after this, much like beans or rice used as pie weights. E)If the cloak-without-sewing is your first choice, however, simply take a large rectangle of thick cloth (or use an army blanket) and wear it as a Roman-style cloak or Irish/Celtic Brat. It's historical, it's warm, and it requires no work at all. Myself, I'll probably do all of the above this coming weekend. I don't weant to miss the chance to see who'll be on the throne for Pennsic XXX. And it's gonna be cold and wet here on the northern East coast of the US. Aoife Subject: Re: Cold Weather Camping From: John Groseclose Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 16:07:21 GMT Michelle Picou wrote: > At the Wal-Mart in my area (southeast Texas), and at local hunting/outdoor > stores, you can purchase a "port-a-potty" that is basically a 5-gallon bucket > with a toilet seat attached. You just line the bucket with a garbage bag and > go! I know several ladies who say they have gotten good results by putting a > few cups of kitty litter in the bottom of the garbage bag - evidently this > helps both with any odors and with disguising the sound of a lady 'watering > the flowers' in her pavilion at night! Speaking from personal experience - if you're planning on using something like a port-a-potty inside your tent, there are a few things to remember: 1) Make sure you have some kind of light to indicate where it is - stumbling over it is *not* how you want to find it in the middle of the night. 2) Make sure it's either weighted or braced against tipping over if you *do* stumble over it. 3) Avoid asparagus with any meals at the event. Don't ask - just avoid it. Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 20:23:31 -0500 From: "micaylah" Subject: Re: SC - Surviving Estrella War > Using an air mattress is a poor choice in cold weather. Not necessarily. Living up here "in the frozen North" one learns how to get around this. I sleep on a queen sized air bed BUT there is much between me and the cold lumpy ground. I put an artic sleeping bag over the air bed and a foamy (one of those bumpy bed things), and then I put a fitted flannel sheet over all. I also have several blankets on top, one of which is another artic sleeping bag which I have enveloped in some kickass upholstry fabric to at least look nice. I made this to "hide" the sleeping bag and yes I velcro this shut, but that helps when removing to go mundane camping or to have it dry cleaned. Since it is of heavy brocade type fabric it also helps keep me warm. Period? Definately not! Comfortable? Without a doubt! Warm? Yesssssssssssss! Micaylah ~who also has a Catalytic Heater that keeps her warm all night when the temperature dips close to 0!!~ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:09:10 +0000 From: hawkstwr at omen.net.au Subject: Re: SC - Surviving Estrella War I have not had to endure what I would consider very cold camping in the SCA, however if you can get hold of full size sheepskins I can recommend no better thing to put between you and whatever mattress you are using for insulating purposes. I have used sheepskin over a 4" foam mattress with marvelous results, and can see no reason why it would not work as well over an airbed. I have found that the size used for car seat covers is good for a single under blanket. On the humorous side a friend of mine once had a sheepskin sleeping bag made and found that they were unable to sleep with it closed up as it was too good at retaining heat, temp range was 5 - 10 degrees C. D'Gaunt... Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:33:25 -0800 (PST) From: Huette von Ahrens Subject: Re: SC - Surviving Estrella War - --- "Mark S. Harris" wrote: > Using an air mattress is a poor choice in cold weather. Thermally you'd > be better off sleeping on the ground. Of course your back may complain > about that, too. I've slept on concrete floors myself, but that was > 25+ years ago. As you move around on the air mattress you move the > air in the mattress, shifting cool air to you and the air you warmed > off to the edges where it can be cooled down again. The first time I went to Estrella, I brought an air mattress and nearly froze, even with a sleeping bag, all my garb on and my cloak on top of everything. The next year, I brought a portable futon platform, which breaks down to two 1"x6" boards about 6 feet long with feet and pegs to hold the slats and 12 1"x3" slats about 4 feet long. It looks vaguely Viking when set up and is easy to transport. It kept me at least 6" off the ground. I brought a thick futon and two down filled quilts and was toasty warm all night, even though the temperatures were just as cold as the year before. I also wore a stocking cap on my head because your head accounts for a lot of your overall warmth and usually isn't protected under blankets. Huette To: gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com Re: Weather for Gulf Wars Posted by: "Jon Whittom" jonwhittom at gmail.com cornphed Date: Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:26 am ((PST)) <<< I mentioned wool blankets rather than sleeping bags because wool is what I'm *going* to buy. The question was how many. I utterly detest sleeping bags, because you can't enter them while keeping your nightgown around your legs. It always gets shoved up by your armpits, thus making it entirely useless as well as uncomfortable. -=-=-=-= D'vorah bint al-Attarn >>> I usually unzip the bag, climb in then zip it back up but I also don't have a nightgown to contend with. Sorry I have no idea re: wool blankets. -John To: gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com Re: Weather for Gulf Wars Posted by: "David Backlin" edrei at smythkepe.org quiet2284 Date: Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:32 am ((PST)) <<< I mentioned wool blankets rather than sleeping bags because wool is what I'm *going* to buy. The question was how many. I utterly detest sleeping bags, because you can't enter them while keeping your nightgown around your legs. It always gets shoved up by your armpits, thus making it entirely useless as well as uncomfortable. >>> I usually do a combination of wool blankets & polar fleece. I also bungee-ball them to the foot of my bed so they don't fall off if I toss & turn ;) To: gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com Re: Weather for Gulf Wars Posted by: "mazelle attiya" attiyam at bellsouth.net attiyam at bellsouth.net Date: Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:35 am ((PST)) Polar fleece works very well. Right now Hancocks is selling it for $2.99 a yard (60' wide). Depending on where you are buying your blankets, it might be cheaper to buy the fabric. I lined a wool coat with the fleece and it keeps me very warm in the cold. :-) Alysia To: gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com Re: Weather for Gulf Wars Posted by: "mazelle attiya" attiyam at bellsouth.net attiyam at bellsouth.net Date: Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:09 am ((PST)) <<< I don't know that my machine could handle sewing blanket-weight fabric, but I might consider it, since I do need the blankets to be queen-sized. Thanks for the tip! D'vorah bint al-Attar >>> That's the neat thing about polar fleece. You don't need a heavy duty sewing machine. You don't need to finish the edges either. It doesn't fray at all. It's lightweight but very warm. For those of you that don't know what it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_fleece Alysia To: gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com Re: Weather for Gulf Wars Posted by: "Genevieve Mc Donald" meridianwench1215 at yahoo.com meridianwench1215 Date: Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:20 am ((PST)) Right now or closer to GW, goosedown comforters are going on sale. Buy one or 2. Also get a foam egg crate and put in on top of the air mattress. The foam helps stop the cold air transfer thru the air mattress to yourself. go to a hunting store and buy a thermal wrap. Shiny material looks like aluminum but strong. put this under your air mattress. Ask anyone here how whimpy I am about the cold and you will see I wimp out alot. but I don't suffer from the sleeping cold anymore. Geni To: gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com Re: Weather for Gulf Wars Posted by: "Leonard Hollar" lhollar at comcast.net ibriham2000 Date: Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:54 am ((PST)) IIRC that there is a "Rule of Thumb" of a ratio of three to one. That is, three under you for each one over you. That's for bare ground. If you are using an air mattress put at least one under it and one on top of it, but under your sheets. Take something to pin the blankest around the mattress, or sew a couple into a bag the mattress can fit in. That will keep both the blankets and _you_ from slipping around during the night. Ebrahim/Leonard To: gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com Re: Weather for Gulf Wars Posted by: "Zhara" zhara8 at yahoo.com zhara8 Date: Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:03 am ((PST)) Allow me to throw in a few more words: 1. be wary of camp heaters, there is an air-quality issue that is more than just a little bit serious. 2. the hot-packs that are cheap and easy to obtain at any WalMart (and online through Amazon) are sold as "hand warmers" in the sporting goods section - but I assure you that they work quite well between the covers too. Did I mention that they are VERY cheap? 3. Let me second (or third or fourth?) the notion of combining layers of polar fleece with wool. 4. Down is not nearly as washable as polar fleece, and my husband and I have found the issue of feathers working their way through even the highest thread count duvet to be an unacceptable annoyance. Roving Silk-filled comforters on the other hand..... 5. Finally, I must recommend a frumpy, unglamorous, but tried and true method for maintaining warmth when sleeping: a cap. There are numerous period patterns that could be as simple as slapping two peices of fabric together (might I suggest a medium or even heavy weight linen, for a variety of reasons). Remember that as much as 70% of your body heat goes right out the top of your head. A Cap on your head and thick socks on your feet will get you through the night quite well. (cue now Baron Soni for his favorite NightCap recipe) Cheers, Z. To: gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com Re: Weather for Gulf Wars Posted by: "Barbara Easley" barbara.easley at fedex.com Date: Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:36 am ((PST)) Forget nightgowns. Sleep in sweats. Makes getting up to go to the Portacastle in the dark, in the rain with the wind blowing, at 30 degrees, much easier. And yep, it'll happen. Ilissa To: gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com Re: Weather for Gulf Wars Posted by: "Catherine Koehler" hccartck at yahoo.com hccartck Date: Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:48 am ((PST)) I sleep in sweats but my top is a hooded sweatshirt. That way you can pull the hood over your head and your neck is covered too. I have slept on the ground in 20 below weather and heavy snow but I am always toasty with extra blankets and my hoodie! To: gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com Re: Weather for Gulf Wars Posted by: "D'vorah bint al-Attar" dvorah at consensualreality.net dvorah.batadar Date: Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:22 am ((PST)) On 19 Feb 2010, at 10:03 AM, Zhara wrote: <<< 5. Finally, I must recommend a frumpy, unglamorous, but tried and true method for maintaining warmth when sleeping: a cap. There are numerous period patterns that could be as simple as slapping two peices of fabric together (might I suggest a medium or even heavy weight linen, for a variety of reasons). Remember that as much as 70% of your body heat goes right out the top of your head. A Cap on your head and thick socks on your feet will get you through the night quite well. (cue now Baron Soni for his favorite NightCap recipe) Cheers, Z. >>> I normally wear one of these: http://modestworld.com/proddetail.asp?prod=SN0004&cat=42 (cap) http://modestworld.com/proddetail.asp?prod=SN0022&cat=42 (full snood) They're warm, comfortable, and fairly inexpensive. Best of all, I don't have to sew and then find that the cap doesn't fit. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=- D'vorah bint al-Attar Master Albrecht Waldfurster's Egg Middle Kingdom, Midlands, Ayreton, Tree-Girt-Sea (Chicago, IL) To: gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com Re: Weather for Gulf Wars Posted by: "melinda" mlaf at sbcglobal.net maybard Date: Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:35 pm ((PST)) One of My favorite cold weather sleeping arrangement goes something like this... carpet, air matress, sheet, sheepskin rug, wool side up, me, fleece, "raw" silk fabric, wool, wool, Sheet blanket tucked in underneath my matress, and holding it all in place, cloak. I sleep with socks, and if I don't have a hat, I pull my cloak hood up over my head. My blankets aren't blankets at all, just lengths of fabric. Both the wool & the silk I got on sale at about $2/yd. The nice think about both wool and silk is they hold the heat even when it is wet.... If I have a sleeping bag, then sometimes I sleep on or in that, and the rug will go on top of me.... Melandra To: gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com Re: Weather for Gulf Wars Posted by: "Stefan li Rous" stefanlirous at austin.rr.com stefanlirous Date: Sat Feb 20, 2010 7:59 pm ((PST)) Stefan MacMorrow commented: <<< Now, Korean faux mink blankets are much better. >>> Where can you find these? How expensive do they run? I've liked the idea of using sheepskin with the fleece on it for a number of years, but each sheepskin seems to be in the $40 or more range. And for a double bed we would need several. One of the best ways to keep warm while sleeping in the cold is to share your bed with another. Sleeping bags were briefly mentioned here. If you buy two identical sleeping bags you can often unzip each of them completely and then zip them together as one big bag. Unfortunately, for me, my wife gets up each morning at Gulf Wars at 4am to go do a volunteer circuit for the privy patrol, so my bed isn't as warm after that as it could be. For those new to Gulf Wars, another reason she gets up so early is that there is always hot water in the showers at that time. We use a platform bed with a layer of indoor-outdoor carpet put down next to protect the air mattress from splinters, then the sleeping bag on top of this. I like the idea of the polar fleece and will be looking into adding some of this, although I think the sheepskin would be superior. Stefan -------- THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas StefanliRous at austin.rr.com To: gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com Re: Weather for Gulf Wars Posted by: "Sonny Scott" 1soni at sbcglobal.net onesoni Date: Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:08 pm ((PST)) Stefan MacMorrow commented: <<< Now, Korean faux mink blankets are much better. >>> Where can you find these? How expensive do they run? -------- It looks like a queen size blanket can be had for about 33.00 on ebay To: gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com Power shopping for cold weather.... sidebar from: [Gleann Abhann] Re Posted by: "Stefan MacMorrow" stefanmac at earthlink.net scjerkins Date: Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:44 am ((PST)) Stefan MacMorrow commented: <<< Now, Korean faux mink blankets are much better. >>> The cheapest place I've seen is from the local vendors in Chin Hei. but that is a bit out of the way. I've purchased some from eBay and depending on design and thickness can run from $25 to $85. $25 for a single thickness with a pattern that no one wants (who actually wanted Universal Soldier on their bed?) and $85 for a king size reversible two color elaborate floral pattern. Until you have felt one, you don't realize the loft and warmth of one of these. And, the loft only marginally reduces with repeated machine washings. I was very glad to find some on eBay when I finally wore out the ones I had picked up on a port call many many moons ago. Oh, yes, you can get them under the "Solaron" trademark for several hundred dollars at high end department stores. Btw. the material is that makes this type of blanket is made of 30% recycled polyethelene bottles. . in case you have a touch of a "green fetish". Another idea for a middlin' budget if you want to have a spiffy bedchamber is the faux mink duvet cover sold at www.sportsmansguide.com . (they usually do deep discount for a spring clearance) This is actually designed to be a cover for a duvet (read as in down comforter for those that don't grok eurospeek) The thing looks like a fur blanket and has a zipper on one edge to install the duvet. It is warm in itself but with the zipper you can install a duvet or several blankets inside. From experience.. don't install a 3 inch thick down filled duvet and think you are going to sleep in it. Do a solo sweat lodge, yes, but sleep. not a chance. Even if it is -10 degrees, it is too bloody warm. Chemical hand warmers can help too. Especially if your feet get cold when the rest is warm. Harbor Freight Tools often has them by the box at a reasonable price. Hmmm, good sutler item for a merchant booth I would think. Stefan MacMorrow Edited by Mark S. Harris cld-weath-cmpg-msg 13 of 13